EV Digest 5358
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Hybridize-yourself?
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: MG Run data.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Red Fiero was Re: Orb Carnage....
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Multi charger. (Dennis Berube)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: Monster Garage
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Fwd: Monster Garage
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Monster Garage
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Fwd: Monster Garage
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Orb Carnage....
by Seppo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Monster Garage
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Fwd: Monster Garage
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Multi charger. (Dennis Berube)
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Milwaukee Tool Battery
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Fwd: Monster Garage
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Monster Garage
by J Z <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:50:57AM -0700, Stefan T. Peters wrote:
>
> The Honda Civic HX (non-hybrid) with their CVT (aka "Honda Multimatic")
> has been sold in the US since 1996... no reliability issues have
> appeared so far.
You must admit, it sure looks like a lot of failure prone moving parts
in the diagram on that page.
Perhaps they found a way to make it more robust?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: MG Run data.
> Rich,
>
> Run 4 may be our best indicator of what we could do with the right
> setup.
> The rear motor and zilla were along for the ride and had no power due
> to the blown breaker box.
> After run 3 in the heat of battle I only jumped around one side of the
> box mistakingly thinking that the output side of the box was bridged as
> well as the input. A 17.601 with 1/2 power without recharging after 3
> warm up runs and 3 full runs isn't toooooooooo bad for a 5000lb car. I
> wonder just how hard that poor front motor was working.
>
> Shawn
>
The Motor that was on fire... that one???
> Madman
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not yet...
much more pressing things to do.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: Red Fiero was Re: Orb Carnage....
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:16 AM
> Subject: Red Fiero was Re: Orb Carnage....
>
>
> > > Man there are some good shot of Goldie being very bad on the MG
Show...
> I
> > > need to yard the dead lead out of her and get some fresh Smoke....
> > Hi All;
> That Goldie show looks like a Vancouver? Right? Got a good smoke show
> there, the Jersey Barrier didn't move an inch! That he was chained to.Did
> yafix the right side marker lite wire thrashed to death by the
> desindegrating tire<g>!?
>
> Seeya at Joliet!
>
> Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 4/12/06 12:34:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Multi charger. (Dennis Berube)
Date: 4/12/06 12:34:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul G.)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
On Apr 5, 2006, at 3:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have been using the 10 packx3 deltran charger for thousands of
> hours.It is
> offboard so I will also use it to balance the 26ah hawkers in my new
> S10
> Street/Drag truck.(the one that will run 10s by the third try)
What model of deltran charger are you using?
They have a nice (but slow) 10 bank charger that I'm tempted to try for
finish charging. I am installing hardware now that will let me know
when the first battery hits 15 volts. I could use that to switch
between a bulk charger and individual finish charging.
Paul "neon" G.
>>
I have 3 of those 10 packs.I use them as battery balancers. Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The chassis set up was Ron's baby. He made it work where the one that came
out of the Back hole would not have lived.
Ron..got what he wanted.
But we lost a deck of batteries.
Ron's work was superb.
Then we found that the tires we were give were finding the old shock
towers... so they went the morning before the challenge.
Still we needed real race rubber to hold off the line...So did the Hemi GTX.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage
> Was Ron Jenkins not consulted for the chassis setup? Jesse cut Ron off
> in mid sentence when he was describing how to box the chassis
> components in. I think he overloaded Jesses's brain.
>
> Mike
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > I must say that the reason we didn't win on the track was lack of
> > execution on our behalf.
> > We certainly had the tools for a very low 13 second car. Our setup was
> > wrong, the tire pressure too high, the breaker box too small, The
> > shifter incorrectly adjusted (It popped out on one run), etc..., etc...
> > These were all our decisions. While it is true we were shorted on work
> > time we SHOULD have still left the hemi in the dust. We were not told
> > to lose at any time. Nobody was more disappointed then I that we
> > didn't win but such is drag racing. We live to fight another day.
> > Thanks for the good word on our behalf.
> >
> > Shawn
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:00:03 -0500 (CDT)
> > Subject: Re: Monster Garage
> >
> > I don't know if we are talking about the same show here. The one I saw
> > was
> > biased towards ICE dragsters, told the viewers how dangerous electric
> > cars
> > are, spent $80,000 in 'freebies' and still couldn't win on the track.
> >
> > While most of you are specialized in some sort of engineering, I am a PR
> > and marketing person by trade. And from an 'ev' public relations
> > perspective, the show wasn't good at all. I don't blame Rich or Shawn
> > (they tried their best) but it seems to me they have been railroaded.
> >
> > I did a quick (not representative) panel among friends I asked to watch
> > the show (about 40) that are not involved with (but are interested in)
> > electric vehicles. Unfortunately, approx. 70% came back with a
> > definitely
> > more negative opinion about EVs.
> >
> > If interested, I can post my list of questions about EVs and the answers
> > before and after the show.
> >
> > It was nice though, to have a face for some of the people that have
> > contributed so much for the EV community.
> >
> > Thanks Rich and Shawn.
> >
> > Michaela
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
> > * This post contains a forbidden message format *
> > * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
> > * Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
> > * If your postings display this message your mail program *
> > * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> >
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Zick... it NOT a EVer..
and the battery hassels made it really clear that the way we had to do it
with his batteries... was not a useable solution.
Shawn and I hammered him pretty hard about that line...
Danny and Ron just were not impressed at all. They don't show that... thank
you.
With a solid torque converter. and a pair of 600 amp tripple Heimnamans..
and sticky Rubber.. we would have done MUCH better.
Lessons learned... for sure.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Monster Garage
So why did the Milwakee guy spew on about not in our lifetime
regarding EV's? Sorry I cannot remember his name.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Zick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 'Shawn Lawless' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:47:31 -0500
> Subject: Fw: Monster Garage
>
>
>
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
>
>
> Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
> Messenger with Voice.
> ----- Message from J Z <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 12 Apr 2006
> 05:51:28
> -0700 (PDT) -----
>
>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Monster Garage
>
>
>
>
> Hello Everyone,
> This is my first time posting here on the list, but I have been
> following
> the forum since January (when I first met Shawn and Rich). I'd like to
> first start off by saying it's a great site and forum and am quite
> impressed with some of the conversations that go on here. I would also
> like to take the opportunity to thank Shawn, Rich, Ron, and Danny for
> all
> the work they did during the build. There is NO WAY the build would
> have
> been a success without any one of them. Everyone had a key part to
> complete in order to get the car to move. Great job everyone!!!!!! A
> lot
> of skill and hard work...and some just dumb luck, made it a great show.
>
> Now, let me give you the feedback from a lot of Milwaukee employees.
> There
> was basically two comments...1) Everyone that I talked to was very very
> surprised that a EV could go that fast!! 2) They gained a huge respect
> for
> the hazards involved and the care and time needed to build such an
> electric
> monster.
> Now, this is from people that have NO exposure to Ev's. Great PR for
> the
> EV industry.
>
> Ryan, to answer your questions below, cause I'm sure Shawn and Rich's
> fingers are getting tired:
> 1) The challenge came up unexpectedly (due to the car making an
> appearance
> at the Builders Show in Orlando) and it was hard enough to get the team
> back together in time to charge and reload the batteries. Plus West
> Coast
> still had to paint the dam thing.
> 2) The parking lot "parading" actually turned out better then I thought
> it
> would. At that point, do to a wiring issue, we were running only half
> power. Which we were not too happy with but it turned out to be a good
> thing because the tires were rubbing on the body. If we would have
> been at
> full power, I'm sure the tires would have blown. We got lucky on that
> one...right guys!!!
> 3) The tires...we didn't have a say in. That was what Jesse brought
> us so
> that is what we put on the car. The tires were the least of our
> worries at
> that point.
> 4) As for the car as it stands today, it draws a very good crowd where
> ever it goes. Everyone is impressed that it went so fast and can't
> believe
> it is powered by tool batteries. It is one of the most successful brand
> events Milwaukee has done. So far the car has not run since the last
> event...butttttttt...you never know...there still might be a few more
> races
> in the beast...right Shawn!!
> Right now I can't seem to get the car out of Marketing's hands cause I
> know
> I would really like to see it go 100mph. All the batteries and chargers
> are still in my office so the fuel is ready!!!
>
> Ok....sorry so long winded. I'll stop talking now.
> Jon "Jagarbomber" Zick
>
>
>
> Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I liked the show and was glad to see it and that the car was
> completed. I've seen every Monster Garage episode ever made, and I
> was completely unaware of all the goading that apparently went on with
> the film crew, etc. Maybe since this was the last episode(so I've
> heard..), they went all out and didn't hold back(nothing to lose?)?
>
> Even though "hindsight is always 20/20", just for future reference in
> case something similar ever arises:
>
> What was the situation where they wouldn't let you take the car to the
> track in the days or weeks before the race to dial it in?
>
> It would have been nice if the power would have been cranked up so
> when Jesse was parading around the parking lot on the first drive, he
> could have been doing burnouts and donuts and really been able to show
> what electrics can do..
>
> Also it would have been nice if some real tires, or at least some
> decent back tires could have been used so that car would have ran at
> least consistent 13's and beat that Mopar every time... Amazing it
> did run that 14.5 after all those previous runs it had been through
> though! Those batteries had a lot more in them then I thought they
> would have. (now if we could buy those batteries at a fair price...)
> Considering the weight of that car, and all the wheel spin(time
> wasted) and STILL running a 14.5(remember all the previous runs on
> that charge), that car had a LOT more potential. It would be nice if
> Milwaukee would dial it in and get some really nice times from it.
>
> The good news is, there are some really serious street beasts in the
> works, and a certain electric rail car is about to set some more
> records...
>
> A new generation of high performance electrics.. not to mention the
> potential new age of batteries on the verge of being a reality. The
> future of EV's is bright. Remember this Jesse, the business you own
> and run revolves around the availability of gasoline. How many
> Choppers will you sell if there is no gasoline? When you get bored,
> consider building an electric Chopper with the uncertain and
> unguaranteed future in mind..
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good to hear Rich, thanks for the insight.
Me thinks it was a Coronet, not a GTX.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The chassis set up was Ron's baby. He made it work where the one
that came
> out of the Back hole would not have lived.
> Ron..got what he wanted.
> But we lost a deck of batteries.
>
> Ron's work was superb.
>
> Then we found that the tires we were give were finding the old shock
> towers... so they went the morning before the challenge.
>
> Still we needed real race rubber to hold off the line...So did the
Hemi GTX.
>
> Madman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Monster Garage
>
>
> > Was Ron Jenkins not consulted for the chassis setup? Jesse cut Ron off
> > in mid sentence when he was describing how to box the chassis
> > components in. I think he overloaded Jesses's brain.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], ev@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I must say that the reason we didn't win on the track was lack of
> > > execution on our behalf.
> > > We certainly had the tools for a very low 13 second car. Our
setup was
> > > wrong, the tire pressure too high, the breaker box too small, The
> > > shifter incorrectly adjusted (It popped out on one run), etc...,
etc...
> > > These were all our decisions. While it is true we were shorted
on work
> > > time we SHOULD have still left the hemi in the dust. We were
not told
> > > to lose at any time. Nobody was more disappointed then I that we
> > > didn't win but such is drag racing. We live to fight another day.
> > > Thanks for the good word on our behalf.
> > >
> > > Shawn
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Michaela Merz <misch@>
> > > To: ev@
> > > Sent: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:00:03 -0500 (CDT)
> > > Subject: Re: Monster Garage
> > >
> > > I don't know if we are talking about the same show here. The one
I saw
> > > was
> > > biased towards ICE dragsters, told the viewers how dangerous
electric
> > > cars
> > > are, spent $80,000 in 'freebies' and still couldn't win on the
track.
> > >
> > > While most of you are specialized in some sort of engineering, I
am a PR
> > > and marketing person by trade. And from an 'ev' public relations
> > > perspective, the show wasn't good at all. I don't blame Rich or
Shawn
> > > (they tried their best) but it seems to me they have been
railroaded.
> > >
> > > I did a quick (not representative) panel among friends I asked
to watch
> > > the show (about 40) that are not involved with (but are
interested in)
> > > electric vehicles. Unfortunately, approx. 70% came back with a
> > > definitely
> > > more negative opinion about EVs.
> > >
> > > If interested, I can post my list of questions about EVs and the
answers
> > > before and after the show.
> > >
> > > It was nice though, to have a face for some of the people that have
> > > contributed so much for the EV community.
> > >
> > > Thanks Rich and Shawn.
> > >
> > > Michaela
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > > * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
> > > * This post contains a forbidden message format *
> > > * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
> > > * Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
> > > * If your postings display this message your mail program *
> > > * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EV Album.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 11:53 AM
To: Roland Wiench
Subject: Re: Fwd: Monster Garage
Please expand on your own vehicles. Is there an URL for them?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> There is many people that have a bias against electric cars, because
if they
> are so far removed from them, and the only experience they have is
electric
> golf carts and fork lifts.
>
> I just got done talking to a car guy at the café I go everyday. He
has a
> whole building full of custom classic cars in mint condition. He
owns his
> own custom car shop. He just got done buying a new giant pickup to
replace
> his 2005 pickup, which he paid about $60,000.00 for. Does this about
every
> one to two years.
>
> We was talking about the MG show, and he said, there would never be
any EVs
> in this country, Montana, because they do not have the power, range,
speed.
> Cannot drive it in the rain, snow or its too cold. Takes too long to
charge
> and must charge it every day.
>
> So, he ask me what kind of vehicle I drive, I said a electric car.
He then
> look out the window, looking for a small baby buggies type of car.
I said
> its that one, the 1977 El Camino that has been customize by EFP and EV
> Systems.
>
> His eyes pop out his head, hit the window and snap back in, well it
seems
> like it.
>
> We than went out side to look at it. I said, I drive this EV
everyday even
> at 33 F below. Had to jumper a lot of ICE that did not start. Can
drive
> through a foot of snow with no problem. Takes only 20 minutes to
charge the
> batteries, and can drive just over 100 miles city driving. In many
cases, I
> need only to charge the batteries every four days, and water the
batteries
> with $0.59 gallon of distill water a month as compare to you using over
> $50.00 a month.
>
> So this is what a demonstration EV is all about. I take my EV to car
shows,
> schools and technical schools.
>
> Our north middle school 8 grade students, won the local science
event and
> they will be going to the national's which is sponsor by DOE. They
built a
> AFC fuel cell that ran a electric remote control model car for there
> project.
>
> The next challenge is to have a group to put together a EV that will
be able
> to drive across the country in three days or less. For 3000 miles.
This
> was done back in 1975 with my car, call Transformer I which ran over
1000
> miles in 24 hours, so this should be possible with today's technology.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:49 AM
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Monster Garage
>
>
> > So why did the Milwakee guy spew on about not in our lifetime
> > regarding EV's? Sorry I cannot remember his name.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], ev@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jonathan Zick <Jonathan.Zick@>
> > > To: 'Shawn Lawless' <shawn@>; lawlessind@
> > > Sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:47:31 -0500
> > > Subject: Fw: Monster Garage
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Note: forwarded message attached.
> > >
> > >
> > > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using
Yahoo!
> > > Messenger with Voice.
> > > ----- Message from J Z <mr_m_tools@> on Wed, 12 Apr 2006
> > > 05:51:28
> > > -0700 (PDT) -----
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > To: ev@
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: Monster Garage
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Everyone,
> > > This is my first time posting here on the list, but I have been
> > > following
> > > the forum since January (when I first met Shawn and Rich). I'd
like to
> > > first start off by saying it's a great site and forum and am quite
> > > impressed with some of the conversations that go on here. I
would also
> > > like to take the opportunity to thank Shawn, Rich, Ron, and
Danny for
> > > all
> > > the work they did during the build. There is NO WAY the build would
> > > have
> > > been a success without any one of them. Everyone had a key part to
> > > complete in order to get the car to move. Great job
everyone!!!!!! A
> > > lot
> > > of skill and hard work...and some just dumb luck, made it a
great show.
> > >
> > > Now, let me give you the feedback from a lot of Milwaukee employees.
> > > There
> > > was basically two comments...1) Everyone that I talked to was
very very
> > > surprised that a EV could go that fast!! 2) They gained a huge
respect
> > > for
> > > the hazards involved and the care and time needed to build such an
> > > electric
> > > monster.
> > > Now, this is from people that have NO exposure to Ev's. Great
PR for
> > > the
> > > EV industry.
> > >
> > > Ryan, to answer your questions below, cause I'm sure Shawn and
Rich's
> > > fingers are getting tired:
> > > 1) The challenge came up unexpectedly (due to the car making an
> > > appearance
> > > at the Builders Show in Orlando) and it was hard enough to get
the team
> > > back together in time to charge and reload the batteries. Plus West
> > > Coast
> > > still had to paint the dam thing.
> > > 2) The parking lot "parading" actually turned out better then I
thought
> > > it
> > > would. At that point, do to a wiring issue, we were running
only half
> > > power. Which we were not too happy with but it turned out to be
a good
> > > thing because the tires were rubbing on the body. If we would have
> > > been at
> > > full power, I'm sure the tires would have blown. We got lucky
on that
> > > one...right guys!!!
> > > 3) The tires...we didn't have a say in. That was what Jesse
brought
> > > us so
> > > that is what we put on the car. The tires were the least of our
> > > worries at
> > > that point.
> > > 4) As for the car as it stands today, it draws a very good
crowd where
> > > ever it goes. Everyone is impressed that it went so fast and can't
> > > believe
> > > it is powered by tool batteries. It is one of the most
successful brand
> > > events Milwaukee has done. So far the car has not run since the
last
> > > event...butttttttt...you never know...there still might be a few
more
> > > races
> > > in the beast...right Shawn!!
> > > Right now I can't seem to get the car out of Marketing's hands
cause I
> > > know
> > > I would really like to see it go 100mph. All the batteries and
chargers
> > > are still in my office so the fuel is ready!!!
> > >
> > > Ok....sorry so long winded. I'll stop talking now.
> > > Jon "Jagarbomber" Zick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ryan Stotts <stotts.ryan@> wrote:
> > > I liked the show and was glad to see it and that the car was
> > > completed. I've seen every Monster Garage episode ever made, and I
> > > was completely unaware of all the goading that apparently went
on with
> > > the film crew, etc. Maybe since this was the last episode(so I've
> > > heard..), they went all out and didn't hold back(nothing to lose?)?
> > >
> > > Even though "hindsight is always 20/20", just for future
reference in
> > > case something similar ever arises:
> > >
> > > What was the situation where they wouldn't let you take the car
to the
> > > track in the days or weeks before the race to dial it in?
> > >
> > > It would have been nice if the power would have been cranked up so
> > > when Jesse was parading around the parking lot on the first
drive, he
> > > could have been doing burnouts and donuts and really been able
to show
> > > what electrics can do..
> > >
> > > Also it would have been nice if some real tires, or at least some
> > > decent back tires could have been used so that car would have
ran at
> > > least consistent 13's and beat that Mopar every time... Amazing it
> > > did run that 14.5 after all those previous runs it had been through
> > > though! Those batteries had a lot more in them then I thought they
> > > would have. (now if we could buy those batteries at a fair
price...)
> > > Considering the weight of that car, and all the wheel spin(time
> > > wasted) and STILL running a 14.5(remember all the previous runs on
> > > that charge), that car had a LOT more potential. It would be
nice if
> > > Milwaukee would dial it in and get some really nice times from it.
> > >
> > > The good news is, there are some really serious street beasts
in the
> > > works, and a certain electric rail car is about to set some more
> > > records...
> > >
> > > A new generation of high performance electrics.. not to mention the
> > > potential new age of batteries on the verge of being a reality. The
> > > future of EV's is bright. Remember this Jesse, the business you own
> > > and run revolves around the availability of gasoline. How many
> > > Choppers will you sell if there is no gasoline? When you get bored,
> > > consider building an electric Chopper with the uncertain and
> > > unguaranteed future in mind..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you saying it needs to run just one lap?
And that lap needs to average out to 190?
Of course it will have to run at least two laps.... even a cup car needs a
whole lap just to get to speed ~190. But then again, Daytona is a restrictor
plate track, so they only have about 600-650hp available instead of the usual
750-800hp.
The biggest problem you will probably face is also the cup teams' biggest
problem... how do I reduce the aero-drag without becoming airborne?
No wait...heat might be your biggest problem 600hp for 2.5 miles for a minute
is quite a bit more heat to dissipate than 250hp for 13 seconds.
I would seriously think about starting with a 500volt dc motor, and go UP from
there to keep the currents down. How about 1000volts of V-28's. And lets keep
it real simple...back to contactor controllers.
How many laps are required??
Stay Charged!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 2:38 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
It would be a "standard" cup car (such as a Monte Carlo) from a few years
ago.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Baertsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:02:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
Shawn,
What shape body are you planning to use? If you get the Cd down to 0.20 or
0.15 that will help tremendously. Can you make changes to the shape/belly
pan?
If you send us the frontal area and Cd, then we can calculate the power
needed to push the air at 190MPH.
-Robert
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I need some input from the experts out there. What are the absolute >
minimums it will take in the form of batteries, motors, controllers, >
chargers, (all the essential EV stuff), to get a 3-4 year old Nextel > cup
car chassis with all required onboard equipment to a peak speed of > 200 +
MPH and an average of 190 MPH for one lap at Daytona? I know it
> can be done but what is the best way?
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting.
My idea was just a thought experiment and I was not sure if it would
work in reality. I also thought, as Lee also commented, that it
might require too heavy hardware to be economically feasible. Nice to
hear that there is experience that it works, at least in your special
usage. In normal EV driving you definitely try to avoid getting into
a situation where one or more batteries get completely empty.
I wonder if the diode trick would also protect Li-ion cells? Yes, I
know that the diode starts working only at - 0.7V and you're not
supposed to take Li-ion cells under 2.8 V. But likewise, you're not
supposed to take a lead-acid battery under 11.8 V and also here the
diode started working only at - 0.7V but obviously provided protection.
But then again, Li-ion cells are much more fragile than lead-acid
batteries so probably it might not work... :-(
Seppo
DM3 kirjoitti 10.4.2006 kello 8.42:
Seppo,
I guess this is as good a time as any to reveal an old (formerly
secret)
strategy, I have been using diodes in this manner since 1993. Back
when I
started racing in the Solar Electric 500 in Phoenix one of my first
concerns was to finish every race I started. Most of the races
from 1993
thru 1999 were for 45 miles! I think only one race was 25 miles.
These
races were quite a challenge and the strategy was to run out of energy
just as you crossed the finish line at mile 45.
As we all know one dead battery can bring down the string in just a
few
minutes, so I wanted to switch out or bypass each battery as it died -
thereby prolonging the use of energy from the "good" batteries. I
soon
found out from a good power supply designer (Jerry T.) I could do this
with a bypass diode.
At the end of some of the races my pack would die about one or two
laps
before the lead car passed the finish line. The diodes would
bypass the
dead batteries and I was able to limp over the finish line with a pack
voltage of around 40 volts, as a result no DNFs! The first year I
was the
only one using diodes and by the end of the 90s there were about 4
teams,
we all kept it secret and never discussed it. It was known to spy
on each
other for these tricks and larger teams had individuals that did only
that. Trying to keep your advantage is one of the things that makes
racing fun.
Us independants were racing against cars built by power companies
like APS
and SRP, these cars cost from several hundred thousand to 1 million
dollars, their cars in the open wheel division (where I raced the
voltbuggy) swapped battery packs every 2 or 3 laps.
Every year I would have people come up after the race asking what
kind of
batteries I used because the car never completely died. The
surprise is
that as the (Trojan T125) batteries die, the first batteries bounce
back
and it seems to limp for a long time. Of course, I know some of
you are
gasping or imaginining how the batteries are dead meat at this
point but I
charge the batteries immidiately after one of these discarges. I
used my
first pack for 6 years befor selling them (load tested GOOD)in useable
condition.
I use the Magnificent INTERNATIONAL RECTIFIER DIODE PN 409CNQ150.
These
are 150 volt, 400 amp schottky diodes. Only one out of 50 has
failed in
13 years! The Voltbuggy was the first vehicle I implemented them,
you can
see them in Episode 12 of "Cool Fuel Roadtrip" as the camera
quickly pans
the battery pack.
I use no heatsink except the battery post and strapped terminals 1
and 2
together with a homemade cable end. I think this beats the clap
trap of
relays monitors or switches I originally imagined hooking up before
using
these diodes.
I also implemented some TO220 schottkys on my sons RC car. When he
raced
and his pack died, he always had enough energy to limp at least 1 or 2
more laps while the other cars stopped dead in thier tracks.
I am sure there are some disadvantages but there is nothing worse
than a
stone dead string.
Going for one more lap,
Jimmy
PS: I think it also helps avoid battery post meltdown but can't
prove it.
http://www.dm3electrics.com/
Seppo wrote:
What would happen if you simply connected a (very sturdy) diode in
parallel with each battery? If the battery cannot keep in pace with
the others and starts to go negative, the diode would start
conducting the load current past the battery when the battery
voltage
is down to -0.7 V.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Jon "Jagarbomber" Zick wrote:
> It is one of the most successful brand
> events Milwaukee has done. So far the car has not run since the last
> event...butttttttt...you never know...there still might be a few more races
> in the beast...right Shawn!!
> Right now I can't seem to get the car out of Marketing's hands cause I
> know I would really like to see it go 100mph. All the batteries and chargers
> are still in my office so the fuel is ready!!!
I'm sure there would be a way to let the marketing people let it be
ran again to get it listed on this page...?
http://www.nedra.com/hedlund_100mph_club.html
Everyone on this list should aim for getting their own car on there.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> With a solid torque converter.
Just curious, what stall speed was the converter?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis wrote:
"> I have been using the 10 packx3 Deltran charger "
Paul G. wrote:
> What model of Deltran charger are you using?
I would guess it to be this model:
http://batterytender.com/product_info.php?products_id=20
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Watching Monster Garage got me interested in the 28-volt
lithium-ion tool batteries that were used. Using several
hundred to drive a full-size car or truck is totally absurd,
but using one or two of these batteries for a scooter or
bicycle might be a winning idea.
Has anyone seen detailed information about these batteries
(dimensions, weight, ampere and amp-hour capacity, etc)?
I think I'd enjoy having a 28-volt cordless Sawzall. A Sawzall is
one of my favorite tools. A Sawzall can cut almost anything
that needs cutting around home, yard or garage. I've used
one to prune trees and bushes. Once I cut a Chevrolet Vega
in half and then into smaller pieces just to prove I could and to
practice using the saw. I probably won't buy one because the
price is formidable-- the saw with a charger and a good collection
of blades would probably cost about $500.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Roland Wiench" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Monster Garage
> Please expand on your own vehicles. Is there an URL for them?
>
> Mike
Yes, you can see it at:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/470.html
Its been modified since then. I need to update the photos. In the rear
where you see the GE panel meters, there is a PFC-50 in that compartment
that raise up using air struts.
The battery post on the load profile Trojans T-145's are change to a very
large 7/8 inch post using a gold battery clamp that has a large terminal
pad, which I can used the existing links on. These can be rotated to fit
any battery post spacing.
The battery box and charger compartments are isolated from the frame and
electrical isolated from the controller during charging and electrical
isolated from the charger while the ev is running.
In the next compartment to the right is the safety contactors, circuit
breaker, and fuse compartments. The contactors are made by CableForm which
are design for a EV. My battery pack is 180V, so the coils on these
contactors are 180 volt rating that have a range of 230 volts down to 12
volts. The contactors will not drop off until it reaches 11 volts, than
will come back on when the battery voltage is at 160 volts.
These coils are control by the 12 volt ignition circuit which activates a 12
volt glass relay.
Looking at the motor bay, you will see a gray cover, this used to enclosed a
CableForm 900 amp SCR controller. It now has a 1000A Zilla and a 600 amp
CableForm main contactor which just barely fits in side this cover.
A clear plastic panel is install in the front of this panel to see the LED's
status on the Zilla controller.
The unit in front of the control panel is the accessory drive unit. This
unit can either be driven off the pilot shaft of the motor or off a 180 volt
HoneyWell motor that is control by a 50 amp contactor and a accessory
optional drive switch. This motor is now in maintenance, sent back to
HoneyWell and I will received a new motor later on.
The advantage of having the main motor to drive the accessory drive is when
I go down a icy hill or on icy streets, this accessory drive provides a
mechanical REGEN which slows down the EV with the same effect that a ICE
has. All motor and battery indicators show 0 ampere when this happens.
The accessory drive unit, includes a Delco 145 amp alternator-inverter,
which at the same time can provide 13.5 to 16 vdc and 110 vdc @ 7000 watts
which is than inverted to 120 VAC 60 cycle. This unit is for running the
three heating systems, three cooling pumps, and six fans.
A A/C unit is to the left and A GMC vacuum pump is located below the A/C
unit. The accessory drive unit requires 3.3 hp to run if everything is turn
on. Normally it is only 1.5 hp.
The motor is a Warp 9 192 volt unit. I found that this motor has only 1/2
the torque than the GE 11 inch motor at the same rpm, so it has only double
the ampere at the same speed. I will be replacing this motor with the 11
inch motor.
This vehicle was pure electric from 1975 to 1985. In 1985 I install a v-6
engine that was couple with a in and out clutch to the electric motor. The
accelerator control system could auto select between the engine or electric
or combination of the both which is a series type of hybrid.
Driving this engine-electric unit at speeds above 33 mph for long distances,
resulted in a 44 mpg. If the EV drop below 33 mph, then the engine would
idle down, and on electric drive.
I remove this engine, because most of my driving is below 33 mph now and the
extra weight brought down the ev range.
The instrument indicators are all functional. A lot of it was for the
engine, but converted the engine coolant temperature sensors to read the
liquid heating system, the Zilla liquid coolant system, the motor housing
temperature, vacuum indicators and etc.
The array of control switches, are double backup ignition, start, safety
contactor, fans, heating, A/C and etc.
The dash plate units can be hinge down to access the wiring which all units
terminated to a industrial set screw terminal blocks that is 5 foot long.
The circuits are than cross connected between the terminal blocks. This
method make it easy to make any modification or upgrades.
There is a 6 inch by 6 inch wire way that is below the console that houses
all the cables and control wires that go from the front of the EV to the
rear. Each circuit at different power levels are than conduit separately
and may be double shield to prevent interference.
The thing I do not like, is the 3 speed transmission in this rig. It is a
heavy duty Saganaw truck type, where the gears are very tight. The low
overall ratio is 19.5:1 which you could call a great granny gear. I have to
used this gear to start out with the Warp 9 while I can used the ratio of
13.5:1 for the GE 11.
The suspension system is by Air Ride, which levels the EV from front to rear
and side to side. I could make it hop, but I did not install that feature
into it.
The wheels have a 3500 lb rating and tires have a 2670 lbs rating at 65 PSI.
This EV was design in 1976 by EFP which is the Electric Fuel Propulsion
company that was base in Troy, Michingan. I received this unit in 1976 and
did the major mods in 1985 by EV Systems which is me.
Roland
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > There is many people that have a bias against electric cars, because
> if they
> > are so far removed from them, and the only experience they have is
> electric
> > golf carts and fork lifts.
> >
> > I just got done talking to a car guy at the café I go everyday. He
> has a
> > whole building full of custom classic cars in mint condition. He
> owns his
> > own custom car shop. He just got done buying a new giant pickup to
> replace
> > his 2005 pickup, which he paid about $60,000.00 for. Does this about
> every
> > one to two years.
> >
> > We was talking about the MG show, and he said, there would never be
> any EVs
> > in this country, Montana, because they do not have the power, range,
> speed.
> > Cannot drive it in the rain, snow or its too cold. Takes too long to
> charge
> > and must charge it every day.
> >
> > So, he ask me what kind of vehicle I drive, I said a electric car.
> He then
> > look out the window, looking for a small baby buggies type of car.
> I said
> > its that one, the 1977 El Camino that has been customize by EFP and EV
> > Systems.
> >
> > His eyes pop out his head, hit the window and snap back in, well it
> seems
> > like it.
> >
> > We than went out side to look at it. I said, I drive this EV
> everyday even
> > at 33 F below. Had to jumper a lot of ICE that did not start. Can
> drive
> > through a foot of snow with no problem. Takes only 20 minutes to
> charge the
> > batteries, and can drive just over 100 miles city driving. In many
> cases, I
> > need only to charge the batteries every four days, and water the
> batteries
> > with $0.59 gallon of distill water a month as compare to you using over
> > $50.00 a month.
> >
> > So this is what a demonstration EV is all about. I take my EV to car
> shows,
> > schools and technical schools.
> >
> > Our north middle school 8 grade students, won the local science
> event and
> > they will be going to the national's which is sponsor by DOE. They
> built a
> > AFC fuel cell that ran a electric remote control model car for there
> > project.
> >
> > The next challenge is to have a group to put together a EV that will
> be able
> > to drive across the country in three days or less. For 3000 miles.
> This
> > was done back in 1975 with my car, call Transformer I which ran over
> 1000
> > miles in 24 hours, so this should be possible with today's technology.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Everyone,
This is my first time posting here on the list, but I have been following the
forum since January (when I first met Shawn and Rich). I'd like to first start
off by saying it's a great site and forum and am quite impressed with some of
the conversations that go on here. I would also like to take the opportunity
to thank Shawn, Rich, Ron, and Danny for all the work they did during the
build. There is NO WAY the build would have been a success without any one of
them. Everyone had a key part to complete in order to get the car to move.
Great job everyone!!!!!! A lot of skill and hard work...and some just dumb
luck, made it a great show.
Now, let me give you the feedback from a lot of Milwaukee employees. There
was basically two comments...1) Everyone that I talked to was very very
surprised that a EV could go that fast!! 2) They gained a huge respect for the
hazards involved and the care and time needed to build such an electric monster.
Now, this is from people that have NO exposure to Ev's. Great PR for the EV
industry.
Ryan, to answer your questions below, cause I'm sure Shawn and Rich's fingers
are getting tired:
1) The challenge came up unexpectedly (due to the car making an appearance at
the Builders Show in Orlando) and it was hard enough to get the team back
together in time to charge and reload the batteries. Plus West Coast still had
to paint the dam thing.
2) The parking lot "parading" actually turned out better then I thought it
would. At that point, do to a wiring issue, we were running only half power.
Which we were not too happy with but it turned out to be a good thing because
the tires were rubbing on the body. If we would have been at full power, I'm
sure the tires would have blown. We got lucky on that one...right guys!!!
3) The tires...we didn't have a say in. That was what Jesse brought us so
that is what we put on the car. The tires were the least of our worries at
that point.
4) As for the car as it stands today, it draws a very good crowd where ever
it goes. Everyone is impressed that it went so fast and can't believe it is
powered by tool batteries. It is one of the most successful brand events
Milwaukee has done. So far the car has not run since the last
event...butttttttt...you never know...there still might be a few more races in
the beast...right Shawn!!
Right now I can't seem to get the car out of Marketing's hands cause I know I
would really like to see it go 100mph. All the batteries and chargers are
still in my office so the fuel is ready!!!
Ok....sorry so long winded. I'll stop talking now.
Jon "Jagarbomber" Zick
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I liked the show and was glad to see it and that the car was
completed. I've seen every Monster Garage episode ever made, and I
was completely unaware of all the goading that apparently went on with
the film crew, etc. Maybe since this was the last episode(so I've
heard..), they went all out and didn't hold back(nothing to lose?)?
Even though "hindsight is always 20/20", just for future reference in
case something similar ever arises:
What was the situation where they wouldn't let you take the car to the
track in the days or weeks before the race to dial it in?
It would have been nice if the power would have been cranked up so
when Jesse was parading around the parking lot on the first drive, he
could have been doing burnouts and donuts and really been able to show
what electrics can do..
Also it would have been nice if some real tires, or at least some
decent back tires could have been used so that car would have ran at
least consistent 13's and beat that Mopar every time... Amazing it
did run that 14.5 after all those previous runs it had been through
though! Those batteries had a lot more in them then I thought they
would have. (now if we could buy those batteries at a fair price...)
Considering the weight of that car, and all the wheel spin(time
wasted) and STILL running a 14.5(remember all the previous runs on
that charge), that car had a LOT more potential. It would be nice if
Milwaukee would dial it in and get some really nice times from it.
The good news is, there are some really serious street beasts in the
works, and a certain electric rail car is about to set some more
records...
A new generation of high performance electrics.. not to mention the
potential new age of batteries on the verge of being a reality. The
future of EV's is bright. Remember this Jesse, the business you own
and run revolves around the availability of gasoline. How many
Choppers will you sell if there is no gasoline? When you get bored,
consider building an electric Chopper with the uncertain and
unguaranteed future in mind..
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
