EV Digest 5375
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Why teenagers LOVE EV's, was Re:Appropriate energy use
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Why have traction batteries increased 50%, was Re: T-125 Equivalent
Batteries
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: What car to buy for conversion
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Half-way there....
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Half-way there....
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Half-way there....
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Regen question again :-(
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Maximising torque for racing
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Who REALLY drives the Most Miles
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Anyone know about status of EMB's ?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Maximising torque for racing
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Anyone know about status of EMB's ?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Maximising torque for racing
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Car Cell Phone Chargers
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Maximising torque for racing
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) EVers in Ohio
by "Dr. Polsinelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Monster Garage
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Car Cell Phone Chargers
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: license for electric bike in washington state?? tell me it aint
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Who REALLY drives the Most Miles
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EVers in Ohio
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Crazy DC regen idea, thoughts, comments
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Maximising torque for racing
by Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: license for electric bike in washington state?? tell me it aint
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Crazy DC regen idea, thoughts, comments
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Crazy DC regen idea, thoughts, comments
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Current Eliminator News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) Re: Maximising torque for racing
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Crazy DC regen idea, thoughts, comments
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
All,
My son learned to drive using the RX-7 EV at the age of 15. When he was
around the age of 17, he came out to the BMX track driving my
mother-in-law's car because he was house sitting for her. After the race,
he came up to me and said something like, "Dad, the car needs gas and I
don't know how to get it!" After the laughter died down his buddy, who
didn't even have a drivers license yet, said something like "Don't worry,
I'll show you how to get gas!" I always develop an EV grin when I tell that
story, after all, EVeryone thinks all teenagers should know how to pump gas
at that age! My daughter now drives the RX-7, but I wonder if she knows how
to pump gas? She might have fueled up the wife's Prius once! Anyway, the
main reason teenagers LOVE EV's, is..., because..., they don't have to pay
for the eelectricity!
50,000 plus eelectric miles on the buggies, and a counting,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenagers)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the EV-1!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa only!)
>Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:30:08 -0700
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> With gas approaching $3.00/gal in my town, I look at my 12 y.o. twins and
>> wonder how the heck they'll ever afford fuel for the cars they will want to
>> buy when they turn 16. They absolutely love my EV and are not opposed to
>> their first cars being electric. I'm also not opposed to limiting their
>> range to 50-75 miles so I can keep tabs on them. ;)
>>
>
>My almost-17 yr old son has grown up with EVs (knew Plasma Boy before the
>"incident" that got him his name), and he prefers driving my Ranger to
>anything
>ICE-powered. I would have preferred to get something with enough seats for my
>whole family, but find some small comfort in knowing I can have it serviced by
>an EV-capable Ford dealer, and don't have to even *think* about dealing with
>its sealed PbA pack unless something dies in there.
<snippage>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has the price of Natural gas increased and does the manufacturer use
it for any reason? Has the price of electricity increased? With the
rise in diesel prices, so have their shipping costs. Are the plastic
battery cases petroleum based?
A little here and a little there and your $80 batteries are soon $120
batteries. I don't see anything bringing those prices back down all
things considered.
Hit up one of the lithium makers. Or you can get some DEKA
Intimidators for ~$100.
http://www.remybattery.com/9a34m-9a34m.html
$95 for sideposts:
http://www.remybattery.com/9a78dt-9a78dt.html
Odd that plain old top posts only costs the most ($105)
http://www.remybattery.com/9a34-9a34.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Several folks have built longer range EVs based on the Chevy S-10 pickup
(and GM and Isuzu cousins). See the EV album. There are reasonably priced
kits for these vehicles if you're on a budget. The original long range
truck was a Toyota, also in the EV album. You could choose a crew cab S-10
which would carry your family, or a Blazer, or an Astro van, all of which
are built on the same platform. I don't know if the Astro was offered with
a manual transmission, so you might have to swap one from a S-10. Plenty of
aftermarket parts are available to increase the carrying capacity. Other
small trucks will work as well. IMO, it's best to choose one that was built
unchanged over a number of years, and was popular enough that parts are easy
to find.
If money is no object, you could choose a nice car (Honda Civics are
popular) and put in an AC system with a large Li ion pack (Pro EV seems to
have good luck with Kokams and others are experimenting with Thundersky
cells) and have a car approaching those once offered by manufacturers.
However, you could convert a number of S-10's for the cost of one advanced
car.
I'll repeat one thing that many others before me have said: Convert
something that you like driving. If you convert something that you hate,
you will find reasons (excuses) for not driving it. You can convert
anything you want given time and money. Browse the EV album and look at the
great variety of vehicles folks have converted.
Dave
----Original Message Follows----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: What car to buy for conversion
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:40:31 -0500
Alan Smith wrote:
> My dad and I want to make an ev.
Good for you! Welcome to the EV list. We're here to help. You'll
probably go from no idea to too many ideas -- but that's a start!
> We drive about 30 miles into town 30 out and then some around town,
> so we'll need quite a bit of range unless we put solar panels on the
> car or something. The question is: what car should we get. There are
usually 5 of us in the family at one time.
That's a tough scenario to do on a budget. I'd try for the smallest,
lightest truck you can find with adequate seating. Something like a
10-20 year old imported "king cab" pickup with a back seat. Then cram in
as many golf cart batteries as you can fit. It will take at least 20 if
you drive slow and careful; more if you want to go faster.
Solar cells are interesting, but a waste of time. If you get them,
install them on the roof at home, not on your EV. Use their energy to
run things in your home, or to charge the EV.
If you can find a good place to recharge in town, it will be a lot
easier. Easier still if you can leave a second pack of batteries in town
on charge, and swap packs for the trip home. For example, if grandma
lives in town and you always visit her, you could charge there or swap
battery packs.
> We don't need a van and were thinking more like a five-seater.
Most cars have pathetic weight-carrying capacity. Put in 5 people and a
few bags of groceries, and there is no weight-carrying capacity left for
batteries.
But vans are basically trucks, and so are a reasonable way to start.
Successful long-range EVs have been built using the old VW microvans;
they are small and light, but can carry a *lot* of people and weight.
Batteries are heavy, but small. If you use one of the truck-based vans,
20-30 batteries will easily fit under the seats, under the hood, and in
the rear. The truck-based vans will be much easier to modify for extra
load capacity, as 1-ton and 2-ton versions were built.
Newer minivans aren't as good, because they don't have a frame are use
car-based parts; but they are still workable with some extra effort.
Chrysler built EV versions of their minivans that could meet your
requirements.
Hope this helps!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just wait till it's time to water :-(
From: Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Half-way there....
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 17:01:33 -0400
I am about half way done with installing 252 BB600 batteries in the S10
pickup truck.
This is taking forever. As of now all the batteries are washed, dried,
buffed, and in the box along with the POR15 paint and the plastic liner.
About 120 of them are interconnected, and I'm completely bored with this
project. However they do fit very nicely in the box. Snug, but not so tight
they're difficult to remove.
Ah well. Should have the rest connected by next weekend. Then I'll use the
variac and a rectifier to do a one time 2ah "jump start" charge on each
side of the pack, then plug in the Dolphin and let it charge on up.
It's just dull as dirt. Rich, I have no idea how you interconnected all
those Lithium batteries.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now you know why Bill Mulgrew sold his G-van, I think he had around 700 BB
600s in his pack. Drove him nuts. And then when they leaked and caused a
leakage path, ouch!! I seriously hope you have better luck. David Chapman.
Quoting damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Just wait till it's time to water :-(
>
>
> >From: Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Half-way there....
> >Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 17:01:33 -0400
> >
> >I am about half way done with installing 252 BB600 batteries in the S10
> >pickup truck.
> >
> >This is taking forever. As of now all the batteries are washed, dried,
> >buffed, and in the box along with the POR15 paint and the plastic liner.
-------------------------------------------------
FastQ Communications
Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon henry wrote:
Just wait till it's time to water :-(
True, we shall see. However it would be nice to get 10 years of service
from the pack as opposed to replacing AGMs every 2-3 years.
And if it really works I will spring the 20k for a set of STM5-100's and
a proper charger. Bye bye watering problems :-)
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:33 AM 15/04/06 -0700, Jeff Shanab wrote:
Questions :
First of all can the zilla power the field only like this?
G'day Jeff
My concerns: Yes, the Zilla can power it - in inductance terms, the motor
(I think) is 50% to 80% field, so the inductance should only be 20% to 50%
lower, so the current limiting shouldn't be unduly affected. You'll still
be turning the motor, so if you have tacho feedback it won't stall shutdown.
Now, consider the amperage and the "slope" between the battery voltage and
the motor voltage. You can see a datapoint where at a certain RPM the motor
comes out of current limit - this is the battery voltage essentially full
onto the motor, and you can see the current draw. Above this RPM, you will
be able to push that current into the field, and once you have a condition
where the RPMs are a little higher, or the field current a little higher,
then you will be able to force the armature voltage to exceed battery
voltage, and get regen. Below this point you will have to drive the field
harder - at 50% RPM you will need to drive the field to double the amps of
your datapoint, quadrupling the heating in your fields (double the amps
makes double the voltage drop = 4x the heating), risking burning them out,
since they are not designed to do this duty. As long as your motor is
"oversize" for all else, this should be OK. As well as much of the
inductance, most of the DC resistance of the motor is in the fields, but I
think that the first thing for heat is the brushes, so you may be fine (Jim
Husted or Rich Rudman, wanna comment here?)
As for the brake pot, you'll need more than that, since as the RPMs fall
the field will need to be driven harder and harder to maintain regen
current, but you don't want to over do things at high RPMs.
Just my $0.02
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:10 PM 15/04/06 -0700, Joe Smalley wrote:
It was a field current controller that would hold the armature current
constant by varying the field. The idea was to PWM across the series field
winding to actively field weaken a series motor.
G'day Joe, and all
This sounds like what Jeff and/or Robert would need for their regen control
- just to hold the armature current in charge value rather than discharge
value, and at a rate proportional to the brake position.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pat Sweeney wrote:
They are really taken aback when I tell them that all the suburban assault
vehicles they refer to as SUVs should have the airbags ripped out and sharp
objects installed on the inside so their drivers would pay a little
attention
to everyone else on the road.
[a round of applause]
I totally agree Pat.
I find the SUV drivers the ones most likely to be-
*inattentive
*reckless
*no turn signals
*YOU have to move when THEY change lanes
And... number one-
*tailgating 3 feet behind you @ 70mph
Surround 'um with sharp objects!
That should help :^D
...
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:29 PM 15/04/06 +0530, you wrote:
hello james, bob and bruce
yep .. there are problems .. which have been addressed too ..
1. the high rpm's 60,000+ .. these have material strength issues .. carbon
fibre is being used now
<snip>has been overcome by reducing the dia and making
solid hollow cylinder instead of a wheel
..peekay
(can we discuss this please .. we all know about why it won't work .. quest
is for how it will work !)
G'day peekay
Probably a better forum than this (main) list would be to discuss this on
the EVtech list, unless anyone knows a more appropriate forum:
(except I've mislaid the subscibe information to EVtech list, link someone?)
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, No.
I was using a series wound motor and doing a PWM on the field in series with
the armature. It is impossible to keep the current on the field in the same
polarity when the armature current reverses.
If you want to do regen, you need either a sep-ex, shunt, or compound wound
motor with a separate field control. My idea was an active field weakening
scheme. It cannot reduce or reverse the armature current. It can only
increase the armature current.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Maximising torque for racing
> At 03:10 PM 15/04/06 -0700, Joe Smalley wrote:
> >It was a field current controller that would hold the armature current
> >constant by varying the field. The idea was to PWM across the series
field
> >winding to actively field weaken a series motor.
>
> G'day Joe, and all
>
> This sounds like what Jeff and/or Robert would need for their regen
control
> - just to hold the armature current in charge value rather than discharge
> value, and at a rate proportional to the brake position.
>
> Regards
>
> James
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/15/06, James Massey wrote:
> (except I've mislaid the subscibe information to EVtech list, link someone?)
http://evtech.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:28 PM 15/04/06 -0700, Joe Smalley wrote:
Actually, No.
I was using a series wound motor and doing a PWM on the field in series with
the armature. It is impossible to keep the current on the field in the same
polarity when the armature current reverses.
If you want to do regen, you need either a sep-ex, shunt, or compound wound
motor with a separate field control. My idea was an active field weakening
scheme. It cannot reduce or reverse the armature current. It can only
increase the armature current.
G'day Joe, and all
I was thinking more of the detection/control method, rather than the final
topology you designed. They are talking about switching out the field of
the series motor to make it be a sep-ex motor - but with a high amp/low
volt field.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Those little chargers that plug into your car's cigarette lighter to charge
your cell phone: are they isolated from the car's 12V system (e.g., via a
small transformer or switchmode circuitry)? Or are they non-isolated from
the car's 12V system?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, We are planning to do that with Rich's Dyno. We have a 1000 amp, 3 volt
supply design based on the isolated PFC-20 architecture. Rich got side
tracked by Monster Garage last December and has not gotten back to it.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: Maximising torque for racing
> At 07:28 PM 15/04/06 -0700, Joe Smalley wrote:
> >Actually, No.
> >
> >I was using a series wound motor and doing a PWM on the field in series
with
> >the armature. It is impossible to keep the current on the field in the
same
> >polarity when the armature current reverses.
> >
> >If you want to do regen, you need either a sep-ex, shunt, or compound
wound
> >motor with a separate field control. My idea was an active field
weakening
> >scheme. It cannot reduce or reverse the armature current. It can only
> >increase the armature current.
>
> G'day Joe, and all
>
> I was thinking more of the detection/control method, rather than the final
> topology you designed. They are talking about switching out the field of
> the series motor to make it be a sep-ex motor - but with a high amp/low
> volt field.
>
> James
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am new to EV's and am purchasing a used one. I noticed that David is
in Akron. I'm in the Cleveland area. Are there more people or a group
around here?
Thanks!
Michael
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you look at electric tools, the going charger is a "one hour charger".
This seems to fit with
the operational temp of construction sites. The tool is charged overnight
and then again at lunch. If the operational tempo is high, then there are
two batteries per tool and they are swapped out mid morning and then again
mid afternoon.
Is this operational tempo going to work with fork trucks, material handling
equipment or delivery trucks?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage
> Umm lets call it a Surge pack...please.. Dumping conotates NO brains and
> LOTS of foolish Amps.
> This breaks Even PbLa AGMs from time to time..
>
> A Surge pack will allow you to store off peak Watts or keep your Charging
> Grid draw low enough to keep the Deamnd meter from lighting up.
> Still this is a LOT of hardware.
>
> What happens when we have 50 to 100Kwhr packs, and drive 300 miles and
haul
> kids every where or have a Real Work truck that has 100Kwhr and uses that
on
> every day??
>
> The Real hard part of Demand is not now with Punny 10 and 20 Kwhr packs..
> and errend level charge cycels, But when we have USEable EVs that can work
> as hard or harder the the Gas or Diesel rigs they are going to replace??
> Then 12 to 50Kw charger will be neede to get the Job done.
> Having a pack or two in the garage playing Surge pack ...is a good idea,
But
> these pack are going to start at A Buck a watt hour...Lord willing this
> number will fall rapidly with time and volume. But...
> Surge packs are not a very cost effective solution When they cost this
much.
>
> Clearly.. we are going to have to find a way to get most of our watts off
> peak or suffer the cost consequences..
>
> Madman
>
>
>
> > Hope this clarifies,
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All the ones I have disassembled have been non isolated.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:56 PM
Subject: Car Cell Phone Chargers
> Those little chargers that plug into your car's cigarette lighter to
charge
> your cell phone: are they isolated from the car's 12V system (e.g., via a
> small transformer or switchmode circuitry)? Or are they non-isolated from
> the car's 12V system?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi
I am heading down to visit my cousin in the san juan islands and
phoned the cops for confirmation that I didn't need a license and
insurance for a motorino XP electric scooter bike (pedals, 500w,
32kmh(<20mph) (looks like a scooter) (http://www.e-ride.ca) they took
a look at the picture on e-ride and said ... it's a scooter and needs
lic and ins! The fellow at eride maintains that people in the Seattle
area have these and ride them without lic & ins.
Does anyone have any fast links to an Official looking, easy to
access and understand document helping to determine that this is in
fact an electric bike and dosn't need a license and insurance? I'd
like to nip this miscommunication in the bud!
I'd hate to get off the ferry on the other side and get a $700.00
ticket and not be able to ride the whole time I'm there!
Basically there are only three qualifications to be a federally legal
electric bike which is a consumer product not subject to license,
registration, nor insurance.-
*at or less than 1 horsepower
*operational pedal drive
*no more than 20mph top speed without pedaling
That is it. And don't let any cop tell you otherwise :^D
Washington State is even more generous.
These links should do ya-
http://www.electricvehiclesnw.com/main/rcw.htm
http://www.electric-bikes.com/leglWA.htm
Good Luck!
...
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 15 Apr 2006 at 18:40, Roy LeMeur wrote:
> I find the SUV drivers the ones most likely to be ...
We interrupt this thread to bring you a message from the EV list assistant
administrator.
It is most unfortunate that a lurker chose to broach this controversial and
inappropriate subject when making a rare appearance on the EV list. Most of
the his post was welcome and on-topic, but notice what someone else almost
immediately pounced on.
The original poster should not have brought up the off topic issue, and the
respondent should not have extended the off-topic part of the thread.
Gentlemen :
SUVs and their drivers are WAY OFF TOPIC. This discussion is very likely to
cause another round of off topic flames on this subject - which has been
endlessly debated on this list countless times before.
You are not going to change minds by arguing these points.
If you want to complain about SUVs, or defend SUV drivers,
>>>>>>>>> DO IT OFF THE LIST, in private email. <<<<<<<<<
Meaning : respond to the posters of these off topic messages privately. DO
NOT post your responses here. DO NOT continue an off topic thread. Most of
us have already weighed the facts in this issue and have well-formed
opinions, pro or con, and flame wars will not change anybody's mind.
People don't subscribe to this list to read attacks on SUV drivers nor are
they interested in SUV drivers' defenses of their positions on an EV list.
We have had quite enough of this argument here.
We are here to read about EVs.
So : write about EVs, not SUVs.
Thank you.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 16 Apr 2006 at 0:11, Dr. Polsinelli wrote:
> I'm in the Cleveland area. Are there more people or a group
> around here?
A few here and there. A friend of mine in Bainbridge township (I think not
a member of this list) is an EVer. Rod Hower is too; he's done some work
for Myers Motors in Tallmadge (the folks trying to keep the Sparrow alive).
Rod lives near me, south of Akron.
There's been sporadic interest from a few others from time to time, but not
much long term or consistent interest. Many years ago there were a couple
of people in the Kent / Ravenna area who had C-cars. A musician in Kent
used to have a converted Rabbit, but I think he's sold it.
I've contacted some of these folks over the years and suggested that we form
a EAA chapter, but haven't gotten much of a response.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee,
I have designed and built a DC boost convertor for my solar panel charging
of my traction pack.
Driving the gate of the IRF540N mosfet with a 6 amp mosfet driver IC and
using a PWM chip. The gate drive voltage is 12.4 volts which is higher than
the Vgs value of 10 volts to achieve the minimum drain to source resistance.
However, my mosfet is overheating like mad, i have totalled four mosfets
already by passing only 400ma to the batteries.
What could be going wrong. I have got a 4.7 ohm gate resistor in there to
minimise the ringing, although at such low frequencies, 20 kHz there is
minimal ringing.
Could it be the value of my inductor, i simply choose any inductor i could
get my hands on.
If so what would be a method to size my inductor for my needs.
Cheers for your help.
_________________________________________________________________
Test drive new cars from the comfort of your desk at carpoint.com.au
http://secure-au.imrworldwide.com/cgi-bin/a/ci_450304/et_2/cg_801459/pi_1004813/ai_833884
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Apr 15, 2006 7:28 PM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: Maximising torque for racing
>
>Actually, No.
>
>I was using a series wound motor and doing a PWM on the field in series with
>the armature.
>It is impossible to keep the current on the field in the same
>polarity when the armature current reverses.
Hm-m-m-m. In theory, if you provide additional field curent with a
field controller which is boosting only the field, then you should reach
a point where the armature current is zero.The armature back emf
would equal the applied voltage so its' current would be zero and
the field controller would be suppling 100% of the field current.
If you then increased the field current the armature back
emf should exceed the applied voltage and the armature should start to
supply current in the opposite direction.The field controller would then be
suppling both field current in the positive direction and armature current in
the
negative direction thus giving regen. Of course, this assumes that the
main controller's power stage is able to pass reverse current
( it could be bypassed ) and that the motor would be able commutate
without fireballing under these conditions. But it is possible to supply
both a positive field current and a negative armature current at the same
time from the field controller and give regen with a series wound motor
provided that these conditions were met.
>
>If you want to do regen, you need either a sep-ex, shunt, or compound wound
>motor with a separate field control. My idea was an active field weakening
>scheme. It cannot reduce or reverse the armature current. It can only
>increase the armature current.
>
>Joe Smalley
>Rural Kitsap County WA
>Fiesta 48 volts
>NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 6:08 PM
>Subject: Re: Maximising torque for racing
>
>
>> At 03:10 PM 15/04/06 -0700, Joe Smalley wrote:
>> >It was a field current controller that would hold the armature current
>> >constant by varying the field. The idea was to PWM across the series
>field
>> >winding to actively field weaken a series motor.
>>
>> G'day Joe, and all
>>
>> This sounds like what Jeff and/or Robert would need for their regen
>control
>> - just to hold the armature current in charge value rather than discharge
>> value, and at a rate proportional to the brake position.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> James
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi
I am heading down to visit my cousin in the san juan islands and
phoned the cops for confirmation that I didn't need a license and
insurance for a motorino XP electric scooter bike (pedals, 500w,
32kmh(<20mph) (looks like a scooter) (http://www.e-ride.ca) they took
a look at the picture on e-ride and said ... it's a scooter and needs
lic and ins! The fellow at eride maintains that people in the Seattle
area have these and ride them without lic & ins.
Does anyone have any fast links to an Official looking, easy to
access and understand document helping to determine that this is in
fact an electric bike and dosn't need a license and insurance? I'd
like to nip this miscommunication in the bud!
I'd hate to get off the ferry on the other side and get a $700.00
ticket and not be able to ride the whole time I'm there!
Basically there are only three qualifications to be a federally legal
electric bike which is a consumer product not subject to license,
registration, nor insurance.-
*at or less than 1 horsepower
*operational pedal drive
*no more than 20mph top speed without pedaling (assist only)
That is it. And don't let any cop tell you otherwise :^D
Washington State is even more generous.
These links should do ya-
http://www.electricvehiclesnw.com/main/rcw.htm
http://www.electric-bikes.com/leglWA.htm
Good Luck!
...
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also you mention a traction pack. Are you sure the max voltage is under
100v?
Danny
Robert Chew wrote:
Hi Lee,
I have designed and built a DC boost convertor for my solar panel
charging of my traction pack.
Driving the gate of the IRF540N mosfet with a 6 amp mosfet driver IC
and using a PWM chip. The gate drive voltage is 12.4 volts which is
higher than the Vgs value of 10 volts to achieve the minimum drain to
source resistance.
However, my mosfet is overheating like mad, i have totalled four
mosfets already by passing only 400ma to the batteries.
What could be going wrong. I have got a 4.7 ohm gate resistor in there
to minimise the ringing, although at such low frequencies, 20 kHz
there is minimal ringing.
Could it be the value of my inductor, i simply choose any inductor i
could get my hands on.
If so what would be a method to size my inductor for my needs.
Cheers for your help.
_________________________________________________________________
Test drive new cars from the comfort of your desk at carpoint.com.au
http://secure-au.imrworldwide.com/cgi-bin/a/ci_450304/et_2/cg_801459/pi_1004813/ai_833884
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert;
Are you running continuous conduction mode, critical conduction mode or
discontinuous conduction mode on the power stage? Each mode has different
requirements on the inductor. Just using any available inductor makes the
mode change depending on load. My guess is that you do not have enough
inductance causing the discontinuous conduction mode to have excessively
high peak currents that destroy the device.
To do the math, someone must know the input voltage, output voltage,
inductance of the inductor, and the switching frequency.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: Crazy DC regen idea, thoughts, comments
> Hi Lee,
>
> I have designed and built a DC boost convertor for my solar panel charging
> of my traction pack.
>
> Driving the gate of the IRF540N mosfet with a 6 amp mosfet driver IC and
> using a PWM chip. The gate drive voltage is 12.4 volts which is higher
than
> the Vgs value of 10 volts to achieve the minimum drain to source
resistance.
>
> However, my mosfet is overheating like mad, i have totalled four mosfets
> already by passing only 400ma to the batteries.
>
> What could be going wrong. I have got a 4.7 ohm gate resistor in there to
> minimise the ringing, although at such low frequencies, 20 kHz there is
> minimal ringing.
>
> Could it be the value of my inductor, i simply choose any inductor i could
> get my hands on.
>
> If so what would be a method to size my inductor for my needs.
>
> Cheers for your help.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Test drive new cars from the comfort of your desk at carpoint.com.au
>
http://secure-au.imrworldwide.com/cgi-bin/a/ci_450304/et_2/cg_801459/pi_1004813/ai_833884
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I raced for 15 hours today I havent even counted the timeslips but for the
3rd week in a now we went to the final round.I could not keep the .005 average
reaction time going but still did manage to win the Super Pro title.Nitro fumes
and crakle filled the air all day from old top fuel favorites from years gone
by.Hard to pay attention to my own bracket program.I feel like a ZOMBIE now.
Dennis Kilowatt Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just sketched it out and it appears that it could work if the motor has
interpoles.
When do you think you can have a demonstration ready?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: Maximising torque for racing
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Apr 15, 2006 7:28 PM
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: Re: Maximising torque for racing
> >
> >Actually, No.
> >
> >I was using a series wound motor and doing a PWM on the field in series
with
> >the armature.
> >It is impossible to keep the current on the field in the same
> >polarity when the armature current reverses.
>
> Hm-m-m-m. In theory, if you provide additional field curent with a
> field controller which is boosting only the field, then you should reach
> a point where the armature current is zero.The armature back emf
> would equal the applied voltage so its' current would be zero and
> the field controller would be suppling 100% of the field current.
>
> If you then increased the field current the armature back
> emf should exceed the applied voltage and the armature should start to
> supply current in the opposite direction.The field controller would then
be
> suppling both field current in the positive direction and armature
current in the
> negative direction thus giving regen. Of course, this assumes that the
> main controller's power stage is able to pass reverse current
> ( it could be bypassed ) and that the motor would be able commutate
> without fireballing under these conditions. But it is possible to supply
> both a positive field current and a negative armature current at the same
> time from the field controller and give regen with a series wound motor
> provided that these conditions were met.
>
>
> >
> >If you want to do regen, you need either a sep-ex, shunt, or compound
wound
> >motor with a separate field control. My idea was an active field
weakening
> >scheme. It cannot reduce or reverse the armature current. It can only
> >increase the armature current.
> >
> >Joe Smalley
> >Rural Kitsap County WA
> >Fiesta 48 volts
> >NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Better place to take this off-topic problem:
http://www.electro-tech-online.com/index.php
But to answer your question, one of three things is likely happening. If
your inductance value is too low and the required on-time at this freq
is so high that the current rises to an unnecessarily high level this
can happen, and/or the inductor is saturating. When the DC value of the
current reaches the inductor's saturation current level, the inductor
will basically stop being an inductor and is like a dead short. The
current will get high.
Also too slow a switching time is a very typical and likely problem.
You need to see the output on a scope.
You have a tricky situation. A solar panel is a constant current output
and a battery is a dynamic load, really you don't care about output
voltage so much as maximizing the output current as long as the charge
state is under 100%. This is why the maximum power point tracker was
designed. Also if it's a boost converter as you mention, the input
stage is not just a filter but has to be an energy buffer to fully
utilize the solar panel's energy output. If you only take current off
the panel during the on-state of the dc/dc, the current the panel could
have produced during the off-period is ignored. A large LC filter is
very helpful, this is a design concern that needs to be integrated into
the other issues.
There are actually quite a few issues, perhaps too much to discuss here.
Danny
Robert Chew wrote:
Hi Lee,
I have designed and built a DC boost convertor for my solar panel
charging of my traction pack.
Driving the gate of the IRF540N mosfet with a 6 amp mosfet driver IC
and using a PWM chip. The gate drive voltage is 12.4 volts which is
higher than the Vgs value of 10 volts to achieve the minimum drain to
source resistance.
However, my mosfet is overheating like mad, i have totalled four
mosfets already by passing only 400ma to the batteries.
What could be going wrong. I have got a 4.7 ohm gate resistor in there
to minimise the ringing, although at such low frequencies, 20 kHz
there is minimal ringing.
Could it be the value of my inductor, i simply choose any inductor i
could get my hands on.
If so what would be a method to size my inductor for my needs.
Cheers for your help.
--- End Message ---
