EV Digest 5407
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: MN NEV law
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Lee regulators, 0.2
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Some problems to solve
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 156v VW Bus with 156kZilla
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Potbox and contractor
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Lee regulators, 0.2
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) 300 Miles Per Charge Lithium-Battery Car, front page news
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Does John really need reverse? was:White Zombie Update...360 Volts...More
HP!
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: What people want/level of expertise to get an EV started?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: What people want/level of expertise to get an EV started?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Lee regulators, 0.2
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Does John really need reverse? was:White Zombie Update...360
Volts...More HP!
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: What people want/level of expertise to get an EV started?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Automatic, Manual, or CVT?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Automatic, Manual, or CVT?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Lee regulators, 0.2
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: MN NEV law
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Automatic, Manual, or CVT?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Lee regulators, 0.2
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
by John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: 300 Miles Per Charge Lithium-Battery Car, front page news
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: MN NEV law
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: What people want/level of expertise to get an EV started?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Tiniest Digital Panel Voltmeter?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: MN NEV law
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Tiniest Digital Panel Voltmeter?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Wasn't the original bill introduced to benefit a NEV manufacturer. If so, this
clause would also
help them out, less competition from the general public.
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> Minnesota bill HF1838 says...
> >> The department shall not issue a vehicle identification number to a
> >> homemade neighborhood electric or low-speed vehicle or retrofitted
> >> golf cart, and such vehicles do not qualify as neighborhood electric
> >> vehicles.
>
> Eric Poulsen wrote:
> > What's their definition of "commercial" vs "home made"? Usually state
> > law defines all of the terms used in the law. What's to stop you from
> > being a manufacturer? Get a biz license, make up a VIN, and designate
> > it an NEV.
>
> I don't know; maybe you could start a business and jump through all the
> bureaucratic hoops to build just one.
>
> I'm bothered that it is perfectly legal and straightforward to make a
> home built regular car or motorcycle (there are already rules for
> licensing them), but they chose to explicitly BAN making your own NEV,
> no matter what.
>
> Just think about how easy and inexpensive it would be to convert a
> regular car into an NEV with a smallish motor and battery pack. That is
> being forbidden.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
LOL! I meant the schematic for your cutting back ciruitry.
When the bulb comes on, how does it communicate to the charger?
It may not matter as we don't have the same charger and mine would
take a bit of hacking to make it cut back.
I can't wait to see how this holds up in Chris's truck.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > I would have thought the element would die from vibration.
>
> These are 3v lamps. Very low voltage lamps have a short, thick filament
> wire. Notice that your car's 12v lamps don't seem to be bothered much by
> vibration.
>
> > I can see that with the charger cutting back they would glow dimly.
> > I suspect most won't have that fancy option.
>
> Fancy? My sensor is a $3.98 night light. Instead of a light bulb, it
> controls a little relay that switches the charger from "high" to "low".
>
> > Can we have a schematic?
>
> Schematic? For 3 parts in series? :-) It's just two zeners and a light
> bulb (with a resistor in parallel with the light bulb if you like that
> option).
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK....
I am seeing somthings that are kind of funny and DO support both out views.
First the Funny part.And some back ground for those that are not keeping
track of "Project Mark3 on my Fiero"...
Today's setup is... 15 3 to 4 year old Orbitals on my Zilla 2K power 11
inch Kostov power Fiero. Yea.. it can suck some amp!
The act of sucking 1000 amps is NOT the best treatment for a battery pack.
No where's Lee does this show up in a Good things to do to your pack!!!
50 amp hour batteries... at 1000 amps is 20C... Kinda fun though!!!
First data points.. all the Mk3 locked the Red LED on. So... they ALL got
sagged below 10 volts. Ok how far??? Until now.. I have not had a clue, So I
just hooked up the data cable to the front pack,
And read the Min volts on all 9 batteries, the range was 9.3 to 8.2 volts
with only one resetting. What ??? reseting???? That's gotta be below 5
volts! OUch! 1000 amps pretty much flattened the Orbs!
I bet my Low voltage setting on the Zilla kept the number from going any
lower. Sheesh!! and these are the Mighty Orbs.
First blush is.. one battery has to leave before I open it... The soft
battery Is #8 up front. This is NOT the same battery that won't charge up to
14 volts with 20 hours of equalization time. Funny What looks stiff on
charge is not nessarily the one that drops of the face of the earth under a
hammering load. Hummm Strange.
So.. I need to some how trap one of these events and show all us Listers
what is happening.. Kinda interesting, Racers should fear this...I will find
the weak ones... hopefully without anymore lead vapor on the pant legs...
since I wear shorts... that is NOT a good thing.
But for days... I have been letting the Regs and the charger just do thier
thing... Hot regs, Digital tracking and analog feed back to the
charger...all that good stuff that I have been preaching about. It's fun to
watch the pack actually drift into equalization...hammer it.. and then watch
it repair it self. But... getting all the battereis to stay locked into peak
voltage and low current is infuriatingly hard to do. Those that voltage
spike early, and take control of the charger... are not the ones that hold
the pack to low amps when the current has tapered to less than 2 amps.
I had the Fiero off line for about 2 weeks waiting for motor work. So the
front and back pack were not being equalized, and Well the back pack had not
had any Reg of any kind on them, and the front have the first 9 Mk3 Regs
that are seeing real action. Fact is the Mk3regs Do drink power... LOTS more
than the Mk2B, but that's because we have not added in the low power sleep
modes that we know we need to keep just this from happening. So the front 9
saw about 50 Ma loads for 10 days.. the back saw only thier self discharge.
In a week this amounted to quite a big difference. After the the first
ride.. on charge I caught a 16.9 volt peak on one of the back batteries.
DIVE! for the charger throttles! The back have to have regs. I got that done
between realatives and a nasty chest cold.. more drift.. more data for the
BMS to sort through.
Clearly holding the pack to less than 2 amps.. for some is not enough, for
others, it's way too much. All do trend to my target of 14.8. some get
close.. some have to have LOT of bypassing to hold them down to 14.8.
Putting a Lid on all of them at 14.79 is a Safe mode... but it's not the
total story. But it solves the rapid Killing that happens if you don't.
Getting a perfect charge on all the batteries, only helps the longevity.
Most of my efforts to this time have been to get them full and Not kill
them. Now comes the subtilties in getting them all to a perfect charge.
Keep in mind that the charger has a set voltage peak of 222 volts This is
exactly 14.8 volts for every one of the 15 Orbs. The Regs clamp every
battery to not excede 14.8, and while they bypass they also trigger the
charger to drop back power. This prevents the Regs from having blow off the
entire output of the charger. This is the Reg generated feedback to the
charger. It makes for some really nice automated peak voltage control for
every battery. I find that rarley does the charger voltage regulation go
active, almost always there is a Reg that takes control before the total
peak is reached.
Lee I will keep the 14.22 volts in mind. But this number also needs to be
preceded with a temperature and a spec gravity of the Acid. The 14.22 is
just too tight a number for all Lead Acid cells.
Since I know that every flavor has slightly different Spec grav numbers, and
acid concetration and temp are the key factors in cell voltage.
Understood is that you probably mean at 68 Deg F, 1.260 Spec gravity,
flooded chemistry, and held there while watching for Gas bubbles. Pure lead
plates in mint condition.
More later But this is a on going effort and the stories are pretty good for
us Ev Geeks.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: Some problems to solve
> Rich Rudman wrote:
> > Ok Lee...
> > I am not going to give a complete reply.. here I have a hungry EV and
> > a stack of MK3 Regs to errr... modify for today, and I have been sick
> > on my back for two days...
>
> Ouch! Sorry to hear about that. Make some time to rest up and recover.
>
> > Regs alone are not the complete answer, nor is a highly flexible
> > data collection system.
>
> No; there are a whole progression of answers, depending on how exacting
> your questions are.
>
> If you don't want to murder your batteries today, a cheap simple system
> is good enough. Just a voltmeter so you can stop driving before you pull
> them too low, and a timer to shut off your charger before it boils the
> batteries to death.
>
> If you don't want to murder them this year, you need something a little
> better. An E-meter so you have some idea how much charge is left, and a
> charger that follows some reasonable charging algorithm will do it.
>
> If you want the batteries to last several years, they'll need some
> individual care; balancing, equalizing, etc. This is where these simple
> regulators fit in. They allow you to put slightly different amounts of
> charge into each battery, to compensate for the growing differences
> between them as they age. And, you need a smarter charger, since battery
> characteristics change with depth of discharge, temperature, age, etc.
>
> If you want your batteries to last as long as possible, you need even
> more elaborate measurement and control systems. That's where something
> like my Battery Balancer comes in.
>
> > Together you have a system that will prevent any over charge
> > conditions anywhere on the entire string. This is the primary
> > method that AGMs get Gassed and Vented from. Keep them all from
> > gassing. Then keep the current flowing long enough for the weak
> > to fill.
>
> Your theory is good; but this isn't quite what your regulators and
> charger are doing in practice.
>
> The gassing threshold is 2.37v/cell, or 14.22v per 12v battery. Your
> regulators are going well above this. So they gas the batteries.
>
> There is room for some gas inside the battery, and an AGM can (slowly)
> recombine gas back into water. So, if you limit the current and time
> (i.e. amphours) you put in when over 14.22v, it won't vent.
>
> But, your charging system does *not* control the actual current or time
> that each battery sees over 14.22v. It *limits* the current (by
> bypassing some of the charging current around the battery). And the
> charger *limit* the total charging time, but *not* the time any one
> battery spends over the gassing threshold.
>
> > accurate current control on every battery is not needed.
>
> Well, that depends on your goals (see above). It's not "needed" if you
> don't want to maximize battery life.
>
> > The act of hunting for a voltage point will vary the current and time
> > at that current all over the map. By putting a lid on volts you
> > control the current. You get to the same place.
>
> Not quite. You can control current by controlling voltage. But you are
> simply clamping the voltage, irrespective of what it does to current.
>
> > Yes the key is actual measurment... This is one of the reasons for
> > doing the MK3 project, is to build a system that enables folks to
> > see what really is happening in the pack.
> >
> > The hard part will be sorting through the data and then doing
> > something about it. That's gonna take some code.
>
> Exactly!
>
> I'm suggesting that what you may find is that simply regulating voltages
> does not really control the amount of overcharge very well.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 156 volts I would recomend a PFC20B or a PFC30.
The buck Units deliver quite a bit more amps for the cost.
A PFC30 hands you basicly twice the charge current of a PFC20 for only %30
more cash.
The PFC20B makes 10 more output amps for $200 buck more than the 20.
This holds true until your battery pack is over 200 volts.. then the 20s
make about the same watts, and the 30s makes %30 more watts.
So.. the is a real reason for the spendier units... and that's performance.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 7:32 AM
Subject: 156v VW Bus with 156kZilla
> I have a client that wants to do a family vehicle and I recommended a VW
> bus. I think it will handle 156volts of flooded(26) with a 156zilla, Iota
> DC/DC, Rudman PFC20, & a 9" ADC or simular. I haven't seen a pickup or
Van
> using this combo yet but it seems that it would work well in either a van
or
> pickup. Thanks for any advice or reference to a vehicle I haven't seen.
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> Vegetable Oil Car.
> 415-821-3519
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I watched the show I wondered what useful and accurate information
a viewer might get and concluded that there was almost none. I hope that
most viewers understood that the show like almost everything else on TV
was meant to be entertainment and not information.
Lawrence, I hope you can talk to the wannabe and correct some of his
misconceptions about EVs and conversions he gained from the show.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "SFEVA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:54 AM
Subject: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
This is a comment I got from an EV wannabe.
Hi Lawrence: I've been out of town and am just catching up on various EV
posts. I have the Monster Garage episode about the EV conversion on tape
if you or anyone may be interested. The ending got cut off though. What
happened on the third trial run? I'll save this tape for reference. It
has converted me against conversions.
Name excluded.
Lawrence Rhodes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And you will over heat the precharge circuit if you try that.
Remember that the founding concept with a Raptor/Rex controller was a single
precharge cycle at the beginning of the run, The contactor should cycle only
once on key up and open on Key down.
Consider that I was the VP of production when The Raptors and Rexes were
made.
DO NOT try to run the controllers with this control method.You will kill
them.
Rapidly cycling a Raptor even with the normal setup will thermally stress
the precharge circuit. I have seen more than my share of shattered precharge
circuits from this.
Yea we could have made them tougher. In the end we did. And Otmar learned
alot from you failures. That's one of the main Reasons his precharge is in
the seprate Hairball 2 box. A failure of the precahrger Won't kill the main
power stage. IT Does in the Raptors.
So.. learn from our painfull experiences..
I still have a Raptor 1200 operating, and a Living T-Rex. These are getting
to be rare Beasts.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 8:42 AM
Subject: Potbox and contractor
>
> Hello:
>
> A few people on the list suggested to wire the main contractor to the
> potbox in order to disconnect the controller once one lifts the foot of
> the accelarator (at least this is how I understood it).
>
> First question: Did I understand the concept right?
>
> Second question: I have a Raptor 1200 controller and it usually takes
> about 1 or 2 seconds to come up to 'ready' mode. That would prohibit the
> idea of doing it that way because in some circumstances, 2 seconds may
> just a long time.
>
> Thanks for the answers.
>
> Michaela
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't wait to see how this holds up in Chris's truck.
Actually it's going in the Prizm. Truck is simple by comparison; they
have metric tons of room and an easy-to-get-to pack.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's a pretty big deal considering this particular page gets a little
bit of traffic...
VISITS TO DRUDGE 4/25/06
011,539,973 IN PAST 24 HOURS
295,575,615 IN PAST 31 DAYS
3,605,685,472 IN PAST YEAR
Center column under the picture of the car:
http://www.drudgereport.com/
Direct link in case you see the site later:
http://www.local6.com/news/8988315/detail.html
Archive photo:
http://www.imgtank.com/hpics/show.php?img=91688lcar670.png
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought the reverse thing was one of the new rules laid out by the ultra
secret Nedra Conspirators that lead to the implosion of the whole
organization. As far as I can tell John no longer needs reverse.
BTW - I haven't seen the anonymous third party post results of the new Nedra
election held by the new band of secret Nedra Conspirators. Perhaps things
didn't go as planned....
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: White Zombie Update...360 Volts...More HP!
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:04:57 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: White Zombie Update...360 Volts...More HP!
> At 11:04 AM 23/04/06 -0700, John Wayland wrote:
> >Hello to All,
> >
> ><snip> I told Jay 'no' to going racing. <snip> Here's the deal. We've
made
> >a commitment to show up at the High Voltage Nationals in Joliet,
Illinois,
> >just three weeks from now,<snip>
> and
> >Each weekend has been packed with EV building activity, <snip> new pack
of
> >Aerobatteries
> and
> >Other changes to the car include the high rpm field weakening circuit
<snip>
> >Will Jim's mighty Siamese 8 hold up to this? Will the Hawker
Aerobatteries
> >stay together?
>
> G'day John (and all)
>
> Aargh, no news on how you are getting on with making reverse happen?!!
>
Hi James an' EVerybody;
If I get there on time I can be part of the " Reverse" gear, like at
PDX
and Woodburn.<g>!
6'5" 280 lbs,weight on drivers, as we say on the RR, reverse
"Traction
Motor"
Seeya there
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland, may I ask, why these retired people would care how much [less]
your EV cost over 30 years if they each keep their trucks only for
2 years? How many people out there do you think want to drive
30 years old car EVEN if it runs perfectly as on day one and never
breaks?
Victor
Roland Wiench wrote:
I have been driving a EV for 30 years, and have not once been ask how much
it cost. I think it would be like how much you make.
Ninety nine percent of the time, its how far can you go, how long does it
take to charge and how fast.
It may be the places I go. At a Café I go every day, I park between a lot
of monster trucks, that people and friends of my drive. Many of them are
retire, and get at new truck every 2 years, even if they don't have to.
They don't even haul anything. Even the waitress has a high off the ground
4 wheel drive 5 passenger pickup.
If a person ever ask me how much it cost, I am ready to tell them, how much
does your vehicles cost over the last 30 years. My cost of my EV over that
time, does not even come close to the cost of there vehicles over that
amount of time.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> It's a 1987 300zx
What size tires, and how much air pressure? Are any of your brakes
dragging? Do you have the front tires aligned to be perfectly
straight up and down and also 0 toe? Can you align the rear tires
too?
What size cables did you use in the system?
Since that Vicor is sapping off the pack to keep the 12 volt charged,
could it be messing with your numbers?
What all do you have running off the 12volt?
What's the timing set at on your WarP 9"? Neutral?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't tell you how many times I heard, "Don't forget it's just a TV
show".
Everyone needs to draw their own conclusions from what they saw. I
took away several valuable pcs. of information.
Including:
1. The V28 is an AWESOME battery. While the show said we had 3 runs, I
believe it was actually 5 full 1/4 mile runs + at least 4 hard launch
short runs at the shop, (ON ONE CHARGE) + 50-75% charge remaining in
the pack after all was said and done.
2. The Zilla controllers, (even in their infant form of production
units 7 and 8) ARE the World Standard in DC EV motor control and are
virtually indestructible.
3. TV is what it is and should be taken as such.
4. What was Sandra thinking ????????????????
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Shay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:07:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
When I watched the show I wondered what useful and accurate information
a viewer might get and concluded that there was almost none. I hope
that
most viewers understood that the show like almost everything else on TV
was meant to be entertainment and not information.
Lawrence, I hope you can talk to the wannabe and correct some of his
misconceptions about EVs and conversions he gained from the show.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rhodes"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "SFEVA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:54 AM
Subject: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
This is a comment I got from an EV wannabe.
Hi Lawrence: I've been out of town and am just catching up on various
EV > posts. I have the Monster Garage episode about the EV conversion
on tape > if you or anyone may be interested. The ending got cut off
though. What > happened on the third trial run? I'll save this tape for
reference. It > has converted me against conversions.
Name excluded.
Lawrence Rhodes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You're right. Who worry's about silly old nicads anyway :)
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I can't wait to see how this holds up in Chris's truck.
>
> Actually it's going in the Prizm. Truck is simple by comparison; they
> have metric tons of room and an easy-to-get-to pack.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 4/25/06 12:27:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
Date: 4/25/06 12:27:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tom Hudson)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Am I surprised? Not really. Just like the earlier show that featured
the "Goin' Postal" van conversion, this show was far from a recruiting
tool for ordinary people looking to get into EVs. You don't show people
with sparks flying off uninsulated wrenches and vehicles with motors
shearing off keys and sputtering down the track to someone who just
wants reliable, safe transportation.
-Tom >>
If I did not know better it seams like these shows could have oil co,s behind
them to discorage the potential use of evs.Both gp and mg would scare the
average auto mechanic watching the shows from building an EV. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon henry wrote:
> I thought the reverse thing was one of the new rules laid out by the ultra
> secret Nedra Conspirators that lead to the implosion of the whole
> organization. As far as I can tell John no longer needs reverse.
It's my understanding if John races at an NHRA track, he needs reverse
as per the rulebook...
http://www.imgtank.com/hpics/643904reverse814.png
If you do a long burnout and go past the start line, how are you going
to move the vehicle back otherwise? Seen any big cars lay rubber for
~300'+?
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2006/rules/index.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: What people want/level of expertise to get an EV started?
> Roland, may I ask, why these retired people would care how much [less]
> your EV cost over 30 years if they each keep their trucks only for
> 2 years? How many people out there do you think want to drive
> 30 years old car EVEN if it runs perfectly as on day one and never
> breaks?
>
> Victor
Many of them do. They also have classic car's in concurs condition that
they might drive, if the streets are clean, not raining, snowing, too hot or
too cold. One of them can drive a different car every day for about a
month.
One of the guys owns a customizer classic car shop, something like the Hot
Rod TV show. I always seem to have one of my car's over there all the time.
People ship cars to him from all over the U.S. to do, and they don't ask how
much.
Roland
>
> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > I have been driving a EV for 30 years, and have not once been ask how
> > much
> > it cost. I think it would be like how much you make.
> >
> > Ninety nine percent of the time, its how far can you go, how long does
> > it
> > take to charge and how fast.
> >
> > It may be the places I go. At a Café I go every day, I park between a
> > lot
> > of monster trucks, that people and friends of my drive. Many of them
> > are
> > retire, and get at new truck every 2 years, even if they don't have to.
> > They don't even haul anything. Even the waitress has a high off the
> > ground
> > 4 wheel drive 5 passenger pickup.
> >
> > If a person ever ask me how much it cost, I am ready to tell them, how
> > much
> > does your vehicles cost over the last 30 years. My cost of my EV over
> > that
> > time, does not even come close to the cost of there vehicles over that
> > amount of time.
> >
> > Roland
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jacob Portukalian wrote:
> Automatic, Manual, CVT, or none?
>
> Looking for pros, cons, tips, tricks, caveats, and any other type of
> feedback from people that have actually used them.
All valid choices. Which one do you want? Manual is easy and proven.
Automatic is interesting if using no converter. How efficient is an
automatic when it no longer has the slippage losses from that liquid
clutch("torque converter") that it used to have?
Direct drive is interesting.. Look into setting up a reverse for it
and what it takes. What motor, etc, would you use for a direct drive
setup?
I haven't seen a CVT setup yet... At what motor RPM does a CVT like
to be driven at and would that be the most efficient for an electric
motor? I don't think I'd like to have to attempt to try and keep the
rpm fixed at all times using the throttle..
They can all be done. Which one do you want? What do you plan on
doing with this vehicle and which one suits your needs?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland wrote:
> 1st gear ratio of 1.76 which is about the same in the 2nd gear in a 3 speed.
Concerning the Powerglide, if you get an aftermarket case, you can
have a multitude of first gear ratios. Second gear is 1:1. The same
as third gear is on a 3 speed automatic(TH350, TH400, C4, etc). Also
4th gear in a 5 speed manual transmission is usually 1:1.
This company offers a lifetime warranty on certain models of their
automatics! Breaks or time for a rebuild? Send it in!
http://www.performanceautomatic.com/transpg.htm
Their glide is rated at 2100hp... (lifetime warranty!)
What first gear ratio you want in your 'Glide?
RATIO
1.66
1.76 STOCK
1.82 STOCK
1.89
1.96
2.03
2.11
I think there are more ratios.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> My (ha) detector is going to be a few phototransistors scattered thru
> the pack in parallel. When one of the bulbs lights up, it will drop that
> transistor low and you will know that somewhere in the pack a light has
> gone on.
Yes; it doesn't take much if you battery box is dark inside. You might
need to line it with something reflective if you have problems bouncing
the light all to your sensor(s).
> Now for the big question: How do I shuttle back the charger. Lee, when
> you pull back, how far back do you lower your charge current?
In my case, the charger is a "dumb" Bonn charger, which has a tapped
inductor to select the charging rate. When a regulator lights, it pulls
in a relay, which selects the "low" tap on the inductor. A second
contact on the relay holds it in the "low" position (until the charger
gets shut off by the timer).
> Also, what are you using for epoxy?
Sorry, I forgot to answer that. I have a little can of thermally
conductive potting compound from GC Electronics, bought about 5 years
ago: 2-parts, black, basically epoxy glue with silica dust in it to
improve thermal conductivity.
You can buy equivalents from Mouser; stock# 590-832-TC-450ML, $26.95 for
16 ounces.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
> Wasn't the original bill introduced to benefit a NEV manufacturer.
> If so, this clause would also help them out, less competition from
> the general public.
I'm sure that's why it's written that way. Same as the recent Segway
law; written by, and to benefit a specific manufacturer, and nobody
else. That's why I said we get the best laws money can buy :-(
The trouble is, the "no homebuilts" clause is needlessly restrictive.
Anyone willing to go to the trouble of building their own NEV is not
likely to be a customer for their NEVs -- if anything, seeing a homemade
NEV might convince other people to *buy* one!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ryan,
Thanks for the info:
I will contact them to see what they say.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: Automatic, Manual, or CVT?
> Roland wrote:
>
> > 1st gear ratio of 1.76 which is about the same in the 2nd gear in a 3
> > speed.
>
> Concerning the Powerglide, if you get an aftermarket case, you can
> have a multitude of first gear ratios. Second gear is 1:1. The same
> as third gear is on a 3 speed automatic(TH350, TH400, C4, etc). Also
> 4th gear in a 5 speed manual transmission is usually 1:1.
>
> This company offers a lifetime warranty on certain models of their
> automatics! Breaks or time for a rebuild? Send it in!
>
> http://www.performanceautomatic.com/transpg.htm
>
> Their glide is rated at 2100hp... (lifetime warranty!)
>
> What first gear ratio you want in your 'Glide?
>
> RATIO
> 1.66
> 1.76 STOCK
> 1.82 STOCK
> 1.89
> 1.96
> 2.03
> 2.11
>
> I think there are more ratios.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
>
> LOL! I meant the schematic for your cutting back ciruitry.
> When the bulb comes on, how does it communicate to the charger?
My cutting-back circuit is just a purchased night-light with the lamp
replaced by a relay coil, and the relay's contacts switching between
taps on the charger's inductor. It has fewer parts than the regulators!
:-)
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:18, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
This is a comment I got from an EV wannabe.
You know, I felt the same way about turning a Mustang into a lawnmower -
no way now that I saw it on monster garage.
John F. Norton
via T-Mobile Sidekick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, Apr 25, 2006 at 03:33:17PM -0500, Ryan Stotts wrote:
<..snip..>
>
> Direct link in case you see the site later:
>
> http://www.local6.com/news/8988315/detail.html
>
In this video, it is claimed that you can buy a 300 mile range Liion powered
smart car for $35K. Is that true?!
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Poulsen wrote:
What's their definition of "commercial" vs "home made"? Usually state
law defines all of the terms used in the law. What's to stop you from
being a manufacturer? Get a biz license, make up a VIN, and designate
it an NEV.
I don't know; maybe you could start a business and jump through all the
bureaucratic hoops to build just one.
I'm bothered that it is perfectly legal and straightforward to make a
home built regular car or motorcycle (there are already rules for
licensing them), but they chose to explicitly BAN making your own NEV,
no matter what.
Just think about how easy and inexpensive it would be to convert a
regular car into an NEV with a smallish motor and battery pack. That is
being forbidden.
Yeah, it does seem pretty arbitrary.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:52:42 -0700 (PDT), Ralph Merwin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Roland Wiench writes:
>>
>> I have been driving a EV for 30 years, and have not once been ask how much
>> it cost. I think it would be like how much you make.
>
>I had my Geo Prizm at a local Earth Day event Saturday, and talked to about
>20 people. Almost every one of them asked how much the conversion cost.
>I think this is a valid question for someone considering doing a conversion.
>Not many people are able to buy something obviously expensive without regard
>to cost.
On almost every trip someone wants to talk about my GoBig scooter. The
first question almost always is "Is it electric?" The second question
is "how much did it cost?" It's fun to watch them cringe when I
mention the list price of $4k :-)
I have the charging cord wrapped up around the handlebars so it's
pretty obvious how it's charged. But when someone asks what the cord
it for, I tell 'em that it's for the big extension cord for when I get
tired of kicking it along :-)
I can't imagine someone NOT asking the cost of something semi-custom
like this. Especially if he's interested in buying one.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:34:04 -0000, "Mike Phillips"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Look carefully into the vendors datasheet. Many of those displays need
>an isolated power supply.
>
>Bringing all of those wires into the cabin of the vehicle is a serious
>high voltage hazard.
No, not if it is done correctly. Current-limiting the circuit at the
pack and fusing it appropriately removes any shock hazard. An LCD
meter needs less than a single ma to operate and an LED meter only a
few. It's easy enough to limit the current with a simple resistor in
each lead. Just crimp the resistor to the lug that attaches to the
battery post and heat-shrink the whole affair. Adding a low ma fuse
to each lead is even better. I've seen microfuses with ratings as low
as 20 ma.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:12:54 -0700, Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> It's a step forward, I guess, because present MN law does not recognize
>> NEVs at all. However, I question the wisdom of banning homemade NEVs,
>> since there *are* no commercial NEVs being sold in the state!
>>
>What's their definition of "commercial" vs "home made"? Usually state
>law defines all of the terms used in the law. What's to stop you from
>being a manufacturer? Get a biz license, make up a VIN, and designate
>it an NEV.
Little of nothing, really. The federal requirements to be an NEV mfr
are quite modest, mostly having to do with record-keeping.
Those who have knee-jerked against this bill, advocating trying to
have it vetoed simply don't understand politics. Getting what you
want is almost never a one-step process. More typically, you get a
sub-optimum bill passed and then go back later and add amendments.
Sliding in an amendment as a rider on another bill is usually MUCH
easier than trying to do it all at once.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bad idea.
Mike
>
> No, not if it is done correctly. Current-limiting the circuit at the
> pack and fusing it appropriately removes any shock hazard. An LCD
> meter needs less than a single ma to operate and an LED meter only a
> few. It's easy enough to limit the current with a simple resistor in
> each lead. Just crimp the resistor to the lug that attaches to the
> battery post and heat-shrink the whole affair. Adding a low ma fuse
> to each lead is even better. I've seen microfuses with ratings as low
> as 20 ma.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
>
--- End Message ---
