EV Digest 5408
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is
happy.)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Tiniest Digital Panel Voltmeter?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Tiniest Digital Panel Voltmeter?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 156v VW Bus with 156kZilla
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 300 Miles Per Charge Lithium-Battery Car, front page news
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Lee regulators, 0.2
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Lee regulators, 0.2
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: 300 Miles Per Charge Lithium-Battery Car, front page news
by Robert Baertsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) EV Chargers Removed on Earth Day
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Lee regulators, 0.2
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Lee regulators, 0.2
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone
is happy.)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: High current 200 V Schottkys for freewheeling- who makes them?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brad Baylor)
16) Re: 300 Miles Per Charge Lithium-Battery Car, front page news
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Torque per amp
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV Chargers Removed on Earth Day
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) which comes first
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Lee regulators, 0.2
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Automatic, Manual, or CVT?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Torque per amp
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Does John really need reverse? was:White Zombie Update...360 Volts...More
HP!
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: MN NEV law
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Nissan AC conversion, Ebay motor questions
by "george.underwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: What people want/level of expertise to get an EV started?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:55:02 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>1. The V28 is an AWESOME battery. While the show said we had 3 runs, I
>believe it was actually 5 full 1/4 mile runs + at least 4 hard launch
>short runs at the shop, (ON ONE CHARGE) + 50-75% charge remaining in
>the pack after all was said and done.
I was down at my friendly local electric motor shop doing some work
today when we got a fax from Milwaukee. We're a factory-authorized
service center for Milwaukee so we get all the news. The fax
announced a 5 year/ 2000 cycle warranty on the battery. The processor
inside the battery tracks the time from initial charge and the cycle
count.
The FAX said that the cycle count and elapsed time could be displayed
but it wasn't clear if this is on the consumer charger or on a
diagnostic station that we'll presumably have to buy.
In any event, considering the operating conditions in the hands of
construction workers, having the confidence to offer a 5 year warranty
is impressive indeed.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:09:20 -0000, "Mike Phillips"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bad idea.
Really? Care to elucidate? If you can.
John
>> No, not if it is done correctly. Current-limiting the circuit at the
>> pack and fusing it appropriately removes any shock hazard. An LCD
>> meter needs less than a single ma to operate and an LED meter only a
>> few. It's easy enough to limit the current with a simple resistor in
>> each lead. Just crimp the resistor to the lug that attaches to the
>> battery post and heat-shrink the whole affair. Adding a low ma fuse
>> to each lead is even better. I've seen microfuses with ratings as low
>> as 20 ma.
>>
>> John
>> ---
>> John De Armond
>> See my website for my current email address
>> http://www.johngsbbq.com
>> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
>>
>
>
>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't. Good Luck.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:09:20 -0000, "Mike Phillips"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Bad idea.
>
> Really? Care to elucidate? If you can.
>
> John
>
> >> No, not if it is done correctly. Current-limiting the circuit at the
> >> pack and fusing it appropriately removes any shock hazard. An LCD
> >> meter needs less than a single ma to operate and an LED meter only a
> >> few. It's easy enough to limit the current with a simple resistor in
> >> each lead. Just crimp the resistor to the lug that attaches to the
> >> battery post and heat-shrink the whole affair. Adding a low ma fuse
> >> to each lead is even better. I've seen microfuses with ratings
as low
> >> as 20 ma.
> >>
> >> John
> >> ---
> >> John De Armond
> >> See my website for my current email address
> >> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> >> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> >> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well why not talk up all your units. What's the best deal? You have a 50
and a 70 comming. What is the best cost to watts ratio? It your're going
to spend what the heck. I'd like to be able to drive a few hundred miles a
day. With multiple charges and a fast charger this is possible but more
likely with a small pack and big charger. A 156k pack of floodes is fairly
large at about 1600 pounds. LR.......
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: 156v VW Bus with 156kZilla
At 156 volts I would recomend a PFC20B or a PFC30.
The buck Units deliver quite a bit more amps for the cost.
A PFC30 hands you basicly twice the charge current of a PFC20 for only %30
more cash.
The PFC20B makes 10 more output amps for $200 buck more than the 20.
This holds true until your battery pack is over 200 volts.. then the 20s
make about the same watts, and the 30s makes %30 more watts.
So.. the is a real reason for the spendier units... and that's
performance.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 7:32 AM
Subject: 156v VW Bus with 156kZilla
I have a client that wants to do a family vehicle and I recommended a VW
bus. I think it will handle 156volts of flooded(26) with a 156zilla,
Iota
DC/DC, Rudman PFC20, & a 9" ADC or simular. I haven't seen a pickup or
Van
using this combo yet but it seems that it would work well in either a van
or
pickup. Thanks for any advice or reference to a vehicle I haven't seen.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's what they claim. Call them up and see if they actually have
product for sale:
http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
You're right. Who worry's about silly old nicads anyway :)
The NiCDs have some advantages over the Hawkers, the biggie being that
you can uncap them and add water. They don't mind overcharge as much;
the charge profile for NiCDs is different than lead (charge to 110% of
what you put in basically. 1.5x volts per cell seems to be about this.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes; it doesn't take much if you battery box is dark inside. You might
need to line it with something reflective if you have problems bouncing
the light all to your sensor(s).
That will be tricky; I think I'm going to have to go with 1.0 of the
balancers sans detectors. I can't build 50 of these, build 50 detectors,
pull-weigh-fill all the batteries, and wire it all up over the weekend.
I guess I can do another pack drop in a few months. Maybe I will have a
voltage detector system by then.
In my case, the charger is a "dumb" Bonn charger, which has a tapped
inductor to select the charging rate. When a regulator lights, it pulls
in a relay, which selects the "low" tap on the inductor. A second
contact on the relay holds it in the "low" position (until the charger
gets shut off by the timer).
Sounds reasonable. When you go to "low", what current rate is your
charger filling the pack?
I'm wondering if I can just set the controller to constant current to
350 (14vpb) then back down to 1 amp or so for the remaining run to 365 (
~14.7) at which point either all regs are on or something is up.
Or maybe I need different setpoints. I don't know...
Sorry, I forgot to answer that. I have a little can of thermally
conductive potting compound from GC Electronics, bought about 5 years
ago: 2-parts, black, basically epoxy glue with silica dust in it to
improve thermal conductivity.
Ok. The diodes I am using must be a bit fatter than the ones you have; I
can fit the smaller (6.2) one inside of a #10 lug, but the 6.8 volt one
is not going to do this. Right now the diodes are soldered against the
lug and though they are hot, they do seem to be sinking a lot of heat
into the lug. Is this enough? If I'm running 15 volts at .6a then I
should be dissipating 9 watts. I have 10 watts of zener, do I really
need to do more heat sinking?
To test that I'm nuking a dead Hawker with a 15.5 volt charge at
1.2amps. The Reg should be sinking .6a, if things are working it should
last a few hours.
You can buy equivalents from Mouser; stock# 590-832-TC-450ML, $26.95 for
16 ounces.
Is it worth doing if I can't fit the whole diode within the metal of the
lug?
Thank you.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like they are only selling e-scooters
The Lithium powered E-Cobra has better range than the competition with
lightweight battery system. Lithium batteries can have over 1000 full
cycle charges while lead acid batteries have only 300 cycle charges
(longer battery life). Not only is lithium safe, it's also the most
reliable battery on the market! That is why cell phone manufacturers
have aggressively converted to lithium batteries for power.
SPEED
Up to 30 mph
RANGE 2 hrs @ 25mph - 50 miles
POWER 2 kilowatt in-wheel motor
BATTERIES 72 V, 11 Ah
CHARGE TIME Full charge in 2 hours
WEIGHT 210 lbs
Nick Austin wrote:
On Tue, Apr 25, 2006 at 03:33:17PM -0500, Ryan Stotts wrote:
<..snip..>
Direct link in case you see the site later:
http://www.local6.com/news/8988315/detail.html
In this video, it is claimed that you can buy a 300 mile range Liion powered
smart car for $35K. Is that true?!
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ordinary, Average. When I went to school that meant C student.
More of a viewer than a doer. Someone that would be scared away from
their life's work by a TV show is not a mechanic I would want working
on my car or the guy's car in the lane next to me. Good thing Franklin
wasn't so deterred by the lightning, the string, and the key. I wonder
if Jesse's great, great grandfather was shooting fireworks at him while
he was flying the kite?
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:03:16 EDT
Subject: Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
In a message dated 4/25/06 12:27:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
Date: 4/25/06 12:27:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tom Hudson)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Am I surprised? Not really. Just like the earlier show that featured
the "Goin' Postal" van conversion, this show was far from a recruiting
tool for ordinary people looking to get into EVs. You don't show people
with sparks flying off uninsulated wrenches and vehicles with motors
shearing off keys and sputtering down the track to someone who just
wants reliable, safe transportation.
-Tom >>
If I did not know better it seams like these shows could have oil co,s
behind
them to discorage the potential use of evs.Both gp and mg would scare
the
average auto mechanic watching the shows from building an EV. Dennis
Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Back in the late 90s as many of you know our domestic auto manufacturers
created some wonderful electric vehicles, but thats another story. Along with
them there was a great attempt to install a recharging infrastructure to
support these vehicles. This was supported by the auto manufacturers and the
power companies whose product would be fueling these vehicles. Also tax credits
helped this along too.
Here in Arizona we have an EV charging infrastructure thats withering away.
All of the charging sites have been removed from the shopping malls just as the
EV1s were removed from the garages of those who loved them. I can understand
the shopping mall removals, they put them at the front of the lot, and shopping
spaces mean money. I wish theyd have rather put them in the farthest out
parking spots where no one parks anyways. Regardless I can understand why those
were removed.
What I cant understand is why the non-shopping mall chargers have to be
removed. There are two power companies here that were behind the EV push, Salt
River Project (SRP) and Arizona Public Service (APS). APS did not have chargers
put in at any of the valley malls, instead they installed them at all their
offices, which also acted as payment drop off sites and were in good areas for
recreation. Ive been told by them that they have no intention on removing any
chargers so long as there were vehicles in existence that could use them.
Great! I have one of those.
SRP on the other hand has over the last few years been slowly removing them
all. Granted a large portion of the ones they put in were at Malls, they also
had several at their various offices which were off the beaten path, and wed
also gotten word from their environmental people that they were going to keep
the public charging available at their other sites. Great I though, but this
has not been the case lately. I actually thought that all the SRP sites had
been removed until late last year when the local Phoenix Electric Auto
association chapter out grew our meeting place and had to move to a different
facility. We found that SRP was willing to let us use one of their meeting
rooms at their main facility and even better they had EV charging spots on
site! This was great because I could not drive to this location and make it
home without a charge.
We met there for a few months and several of us used it to charge our EV
conversions. I even used this new found charging location as an excuse to take
my EV on longer drives to that area because I could indeed charge it. Well
about two months ago I received an email saying that the site had been slated
for removal because SRP sold their last Ranger EV they had. We tried to
convince them to keep the charging site, we were using it after all and I was
using it occasionally outside of the EAA meeting days even.
Nope! The decision had come from the top and no amount of emails or phone
calls from several members could save this charging station. The decision had
come down from the top; the charging site was to be removed. Now, I dont get
this. This particular site was at one of their offices and the two spots
werent even close to the front door, they were way out in the back of the
visitor parking. It was a real nice setup too with a partial metal cover over
the charging equipment with nice signage that said SRP Electric Vehicle
Charging Station and also had a big FAQ on EVs for passers by to read. Even
the parking curbs said Electric Vehicle on them. It wasnt cheap to build to
say the least. Plus each spot had a large paddle charger, one side had an
Avcon, and the other one has one of the EVI boxes that have a 14-50 and 5-20
outlet in them on a GFI.
I usually drive right by this location every few days so Id gotten in to the
habit of driving through to see if the deed had been done. For a while there it
appeared as if they were doing nothing until last Friday, April 21st there were
cones in the spaces and a fork lift was parked in the adjacent space. I got the
sinking feeling in my stomach when I saw this. It was about 4:00 that day so I
really doubt they would have started on it so late in the day. I drove back by
today, April 24th to find that the chargers had indeed been removed along with
the nice cover for the chargers.
What I dont get is why they were so insistent that the chargers were
removed. The spaces werent really needed that Id ever seen in that particular
parking lot, they were being used, and on top of that it cost them more money
to pay people to remove them than to just leave them there. Politics I guess.
They told us that theyd monitored the usage over the last year and it was not
enough to justify keeping the charging station. If theyd wanted usage Id have
figured out a way to use it several times a week if necessary. It was a few
miles from my school, but I could stuff a bike in my back seat probably.
Then we were told that they wanted to remove them because they didnt want to
confuse the public about the availability of EVs. What public? More of their
own employees walked by these chargers than the public. They have 15 min
parking spaces right near the door for people dropping off a payment and
otherwise it was a business office for them, believe me the public was seeing
these on a regular basis. It took me 3 visits to this site to find the chargers
in the first place and I was looking for them!
So to add insult to injury, I pointed out the dates of this above. I was them
at about 4:00 on Friday, then drove back by Monday to find them removed. I
really doubt they started that late on a Friday, and Im fairly certain theyre
closed on Sunday so that means they removed the Electric Vehicle Recharging
Station on Saturday May 22nd, Earth Day! So is it just me or does it seem
almost as if someone has it out for EVs? This is a new low!
This of all times should be when they are pushing for EVs. I charged at
Costco today, the only one left in Phoenix with EV charging, and I had more
people come up to me and ask questions about the car that was plugged in. The
EV can be a reality, but we do need a public charging infrastructure. This is
like a Chicken and Egg thing now. If there are no charging stations there cant
be electric cars, but if they are already there then they can exist.
Perhaps its just me, but it seems extremely senseless to remove the charging
station. Now I wont be able to drive my EV to the EAA meets, now I cant make
those longer EV trips. I know SRP doesnt owe me anything, but this act was
uncalled for. When it comes time to choose a power company who will I pick? The
one that spends money removing their EV charging stations or the one who has
opted to leave them there for anyone to use?
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min
with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the list is even longer. 100% DOD, cheap etc. My fingers are
crossed.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > You're right. Who worry's about silly old nicads anyway :)
>
> The NiCDs have some advantages over the Hawkers, the biggie being that
> you can uncap them and add water. They don't mind overcharge as much;
> the charge profile for NiCDs is different than lead (charge to 110% of
> what you put in basically. 1.5x volts per cell seems to be about this.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
I think the list is even longer. 100% DOD, cheap etc. My fingers are
crossed.
Well, if I could get the darn battery connectors I could put it underway
this weekend. Anyone want to send me 60 nickel connectors on loan?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 4/25/06 5:32:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
Date: 4/25/06 5:32:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Ordinary, Average. When I went to school that meant C student.
More of a viewer than a doer. Someone that would be scared away from
their life's work by a TV show is not a mechanic I would want working
on my car or the guy's car in the lane next to me. Good thing Franklin
wasn't so deterred by the lightning, the string, and the key. I wonder
if Jesse's great, great grandfather was shooting fireworks at him while
he was flying the kite?
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:03:16 EDT
Subject: Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
In a message dated 4/25/06 12:27:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
Date: 4/25/06 12:27:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tom Hudson)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Am I surprised? Not really. Just like the earlier show that featured
the "Goin' Postal" van conversion, this show was far from a recruiting
tool for ordinary people looking to get into EVs. You don't show people
with sparks flying off uninsulated wrenches and vehicles with motors
shearing off keys and sputtering down the track to someone who just
wants reliable, safe transportation.
-Tom >>
If I did not know better it seams like these shows could have oil co,s
behind
them to discorage the potential use of evs.Both gp and mg would scare
the
average auto mechanic watching the shows from building an EV. Dennis
Berube
>>Now Shawn, Rich an Rod I did not mean anything negitive against any of
you for the SUPER projects you all created.It would have been nice if both your
projects had a guest that was really behind you given a bit more time and
money and given you all more track time before the tv crews came out.
Dennis
Berube ps I could not have dealt with Jessie at all
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Monster Garage... I watched John Zick play with the data in side every
pack.
But.. he would not let me see the actual data, or explain it. So.. he kept
his promise of not telling me much about the BMS in the V28 packs.
I understand his point of view.. and his employers.. but man I wanted to
know!!
Cool stuff. but... it does need to be kept where it can do the owners the
most good.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:12 PM
Subject: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone
is happy.)
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:55:02 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >1. The V28 is an AWESOME battery. While the show said we had 3 runs, I
> >believe it was actually 5 full 1/4 mile runs + at least 4 hard launch
> >short runs at the shop, (ON ONE CHARGE) + 50-75% charge remaining in
> >the pack after all was said and done.
>
> I was down at my friendly local electric motor shop doing some work
> today when we got a fax from Milwaukee. We're a factory-authorized
> service center for Milwaukee so we get all the news. The fax
> announced a 5 year/ 2000 cycle warranty on the battery. The processor
> inside the battery tracks the time from initial charge and the cycle
> count.
>
> The FAX said that the cycle count and elapsed time could be displayed
> but it wasn't clear if this is on the consumer charger or on a
> diagnostic station that we'll presumably have to buy.
>
> In any event, considering the operating conditions in the hands of
> construction workers, having the confidence to offer a 5 year warranty
> is impressive indeed.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I appreciate the advice Lee. As you may have guessed, I'm working on a
dual battery controller (96 V flooded using T-105s and 192 V AGM using
Orbitals) to test the dual battery idea I posted about. The plan is to
have 1200 amps motor current capacity. As there aren't any diode
modules that go up that high, I have to parallel smaller discretes.
The current plan is to match, but still use resistors to hopefully
account for aging.
Danny-
Due to the nature of the design I'm planning, synchronous
rectification gets a little complicated, and I don't feel it has any
advantages at these power levels and voltages.
I found this about parelleling:
Link is to google's cache as the original is unavailable:
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:v8Fi4Q5DmF4J:forum.cruisingworld.com/forums/genlmesg/index.pl%3Fread%3D398530+%22paralleling+diodes%22+drop&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=23
Relevant text by Jerry Mullerr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
"Also, paralleling diodes can be done easily using the same technique
as putting them in series. You just need to put enough series R to
give the voltage drop equal to the maximum tolerance of the forward
drop. If the forward drop can vary between .38 and .42 volts, all you
need to add is enough R to equal .04 volts at the desired current for
the diode. It'll match the diodes and you can put them in parallel."
Sounds reasonable to me. So if I match so that they're all within .01
V at 50 A (60 A devices) and say while aging the spread grows to .2 V.
With a .005 ohm resistor in series with each one, that'll allow a
spead of .25 V. It'll waste 300 watts at 1200 amps but I can live with
that. For the resistors, Caddock makes some nifty .005 ohm 18 watt
resistors, non-inductive in an isolated TO-220 package.
I'll be posting the plan on a web page in a few weeks for critique and
advice. :)
Brad Baylor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Austin wrote:
In this video, it is claimed that you can buy a 300 mile range Liion powered
smart car for $35K. Is that true?!
Thanks!
Up until now I didn't realize Lithium motors exist.
Excerpt from their PR guy:
-------------
"We can take basically any vehicle and adapt it to fit, we basically can
take any model and put a lithium motor, and so it really comes down to
what the market is looking for," Griffiths said
-------------
Victor
--- End Message ---
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Is this a correct statement? In a given motor, it can be wired for more
torque /amp at the expense of volts per RPM.
If so, what could I do to a warp 9 to change this and would it be
significantly less wastefull if my commute has lots and lots of stop and
go traffic? more turns of smaller wire in field? can this be done
without changeing the armature?
I had also heard that over advancing motor robs low end torque a little.
How big of an effect are we talking about.
I think one of the resons my EV is so wasteful on power is that it takes
to many amps to accelerate, only once I get above some set rpm does it
seem to stop lugging. The lugging away from stoplights is more wasteful,
but the next lower gear is too much change.
Steve clunn, what kind of milage (wh/mile) does your 300zx get? is that
normal driving or egg under foot? (my normal is apprently spirited by
other peoples standards.) Iknow you mention it once i am searching.
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Did the power company profit each time you used these chargers?
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I am at the stage of choosing components for my Saturn,
and already I have questions.
I have the Kostov motor - I think it's 13".
I see others using Kostovs have a variety of controllers:
4 Auburn, 4 DCP, one Zilla.
The car currently has 22 bad "EV1" batteries (132 VDC)
(I could not find specs for them anywhere,
and I need a battery for my scale :-)
External dimensions 4.5" x 14.5" x 7 (456" cu)
Sample battery:
T-145 LPT 530 min 260Ah 10-3/8 x 7-1/8 x 11-5/8 72 lb (881" cu)
So, 13 of these (156VDC) would be only 10% more than what I have now.
Of course, I would like to buy the new batteries last, after
I buy a controller. I don't plan to race, but do hope to either
a) do up to 65 miles on a charge (expert EV driving ;-) OR
b) do my 40-mile commute at about 67Mph (still means lightening up :-)
(b would only work if I get an outlet at work, 67% chance now :-)
With the above, I am thinking I don't need a Zilla Controller.
However, I see that the other boxes cost about the same.
(Does anyone have something for sale that will do 156V ? :-)
BTW, I haven't found much info about Auburn, but with 4 votes,
it's worth looking at.
With all the discussion of used battery packs, I think I'll
try to use the pack I have until D-day...but to use it, I need
a charger. My question for the list is, can I just buy a charger
(possibly PFC-30), and choose batteries later?
(I am looking for a plug-n-forget)
How does that fit with possibly wanting/needing Battery Management?
(Hoping to be able to reuse 24-odd battery cables :-)
I am still taking an inventory, car appears to have one breaker
and one contactor, so I'll need one of each.
Thanks
Seth
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Christopher Zach wrote:
> I think I'm going to go with 1.0 of the balancers sans detectors.
> I can't build 50 of these, build 50 detectors, fill-weigh-fill all
> the batteries, and wire it all up over the weekend.
Makes sense. 50 of anything is a lot. But you can figure out the
physical size that the regulator has to be to fit in the space
available, and make a few as a test case. Charge the pack, and put the
regulators you can get built on the highest-voltage batteries.
> I guess I can do another pack drop in a few months. Maybe I will have
> a voltage detector system by then.
Since your batteries are at very well-defined locations, here is an idea
that might work. Get a sheet of thin plexiglass (acrylic plastic) the
size of your battery box; even 1/32" is enough. Drill holes at the
locations for the lamps of your regulators. Position the regulators,
then drop this sheet of plastic over them.
Plexiglass works great as a "light pipe". Light going in the edge
anywhere will bounce around and come out every other edge. You'll
observe that when you put a lit bulb in any hole, all the other holes
"light up". So, you just need one photodetector anywhere on that sheet
to detect light from any regulator.
> Sounds reasonable. When you go to "low", what current rate is your
> charger filling the pack?
The tap is chosen to provide about 0.5 amps at 14.5v per 12v battery.
> Ok. The diodes I am using must be a bit fatter than the ones you have;
> I can fit the smaller (6.2) one inside of a #10 lug, but the 6.8 volt
> one is not going to do this.
Did you get them from two different sources? Mine are all from Central
Semi, body is 0.2" dia. by 0.365" long. They fit in lugs for #6 wire.
> Right now the diodes are soldered against the lug and though they
> are hot, they do seem to be sinking a lot of heat into the lug.
> Is this enough?
You can measure their junction temperature with a multimeter that has a
"diode" scale. Measure the diode's forward voltage drop at room
temperature (let's say it's 0.600v at 25 deg.C). Now run it to get it
hot. QUICKLY measure the diode's forward voltage drop again with the
multimeter while the diode is still hot. It will be something lower,
like 0.550v. The junction temperature changes by -0.0022 volts per
deg.C. For example,
0.600v-0.550v = 0.050v voltage drop
0.050v / 0.0022v = 22.7 deg.C temperature increase
25 + 22.7 = 47.72 deg.C
I wouldn't run them any hotter than 80 deg.C.
>> You can buy equivalents from Mouser; stock# 590-832-TC-450ML,
>> $26.95 for 16 ounces.
> Is it worth doing if I can't fit the whole diode within the metal of
> the lug?
The lug is the diode's heatsink. That "5w" rating for the diode assume a
really good heatsink; not just surrounded by stagnant air or heatshrink
tubing. Try some with and without the conductive epoxy; you'll find it
cuts diode chip temperature rise at least 2:1.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Even longer answer:
transmissions can be noisy, clutches and adapters such a pain
A transmission like effect can be had with dual motors, i like this idea
and think it will be my next EV.
They are connected in series at first seeing the same current and 1/2
the voltage, and when the rpm's come up and they lose their torque, an
electrical shift puts the motors in parallel. they both see the higher
voltage and develop more torque and rpms climb.
reference, see white zombie,zilla manual.
take for example my 300zx with warp 9 and stock tranny vs two 9's and a
series parallel shifting zilla.
1st 3.321
2nd 1.902
3rd 1.308
4th 1.000
5th .759
fd 3.7
warp 9 at 500A = 100lbft
I drive mostly 2-3 with some 4th because it is quieter than rest
accelerating in 2nd at 500 motor amps with 7.04 OAR(overall ratio)
= 704 lbft and on a 24"od tire and a 3500lb car this is a leasurly 1/5 G
power from the batteries is V*batteryamps, this will be set by the
zilla's pulsewidth. At such a low voltage the battery amps will be
smaller due to the multiplying effect of the zilla.
two motors:
500 A = 100lbft X 2 = 200 * OAR of 3.7 or 740 lbs, but each motor is
seeing 1/2 the voltage since they are in series.
torque is about the same and power from the batteries is about the same
2 * 1/2V * batteryamps
as rpm's come up, and voltage climbs a shift to parallel is needed. each
motor sees a doubling in voltage to now what the other config has and
the torque kicks in for the next rpm gain. This is close to the 4th gear
ratio, except, that I can now have twice the torque avilable in this
higher gear if i have the controller and pack to push it. Realistically,
unless I am drag racing, each motor sees less torque in parallel mode
and equal torqe as in series mode as the other motor, so less average
amps are drawn in stop and go traffic, meaning less loss slightly.
The down side is an extra $1000 in contactors is needed to reverse and
series parallel the motors, the cost of a second motor and the
additionaal 65 lbs or so that that motor weighs over a transmission, But
it looks like the adapters would be easier
The zombie has a Jim Husted of hi-torqe electric special "siamese motor"
where a single shaft just connects to the driveline, sweet, but there
are pictures of the original coupling of two motors for less torque
intense EVents.
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Hello Jeff,
Try this for a experiment:
When coming to a coast down to a stop, press the clutch in, or go into
neutral if you do not have a clutch, so the motor does not go to 0 rpm.
Give it a little accelerator while you are stop and try to keep the motor
rpm at about 500 rpm.
Record the amount of seconds you are stop and the ampere it takes to
accelerated from the 500 rpm point. Compare this to the ampere it takes to
accelerated from a dead stop.
According to NetGain, the Warp 9 inch motor has a sweet spot at about 3000
rpm with double the torque. The ampere at that rpm will actually be less
than it would be at any rpm lower than that. My motor ampere is about 50
amps less at 3000 rpm than at 1000 rpm.
The Warp 11 or GE 11 motor I have has again the double the torque of a Warp
9 at 2000 to 3000 RPM at half the ampere.
If I am doing very short stop and go, not waiting for a stop lite to turn
green, I turn on my idle control, which is made from a 12 volt electric door
lock. It has a very strong latching, where it can press against the Curtis
pot box arm, using a cam lever, so the pot arm spring does not push back the
door lock solenoid.
I can reduce my ampere-hour by .5 per mile by using a idle control.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: Torque per amp
> Is this a correct statement? In a given motor, it can be wired for more
> torque /amp at the expense of volts per RPM.
>
> If so, what could I do to a warp 9 to change this and would it be
> significantly less wastefull if my commute has lots and lots of stop and
> go traffic? more turns of smaller wire in field? can this be done
> without changeing the armature?
>
> I had also heard that over advancing motor robs low end torque a little.
> How big of an effect are we talking about.
>
> I think one of the resons my EV is so wasteful on power is that it takes
> to many amps to accelerate, only once I get above some set rpm does it
> seem to stop lugging. The lugging away from stoplights is more wasteful,
> but the next lower gear is too much change.
>
> Steve clunn, what kind of milage (wh/mile) does your 300zx get? is that
> normal driving or egg under foot? (my normal is apprently spirited by
> other peoples standards.) Iknow you mention it once i am searching.
>
>
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Does he want to claim the fastest street legal? I think it is a law that
cars must have a reverse.
Reminds me of same rule in road raceing. people buy plastic reverse
gears to save weight. yikes.
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>
> Yeah, it does seem pretty arbitrary.
>
Does it seem unconstitutional?
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Im a newbie just starting to research EVs (I am an electronics engineer but
don't have experience in power/motor control). I currently favor an AC
system after doing a little reading. Considering a conversion for an 88
Nissan Pulsar NX I have sitting around. This is a front wheel drive 5 speed
manual tranny vehicle. Work commute is 30mi round trip but for a safety pad,
lunch or side errands, I would like a 50 mile range. Speed varies but only
occasional interstate driving to the next exit or two. NOT interested in
drag race except to safely merge in traffic in the slow lane. Fast charging
NOT required (overnight OK). Maybe save a little money on the charger
initially.
Future add-on of an Air Conditioner compressor drive and condenser fan
control is probable. Its hot here in GA.
Anybody have any comments on the "Ford Siemens EV Electric Vehicle New Crate
Motor" for sale on ebay? Seller (Electromavin) says this is new crate motor.
Specific questions if anybody knows:
1) Are these possibly factory seconds, that did not pass QA or
performance tests or are they genuine first rate crate motors?
2) I assume this motor is set up for an immediate gear reduction box
(not included)-correct?
3) What would I need to adapt to that gear on the output shaft?
4) Or is the gear removable (how?) and replaceable with what? (I would
like to adapt to the Pulsar tranny, either with or without clutch).
5) I assume I could use the existing car radiator and small pump for
cooling liquid. Correct?
6)Are there any particular control issues with this motor?
7) Any other comments on this motor? .....As possible plant for the
Pulsar?
8) What other specs/info would I need?
9) Is this a reasonable price? ($2000)
Here are advertised specs:
* Motor Type: 3 Phase AC
* Horsepower: 90 hp
* Power: 67 kW / 33 continuous
* Torque: 149 ft.lbf (202 N.m)
* RPM: 3500-9700
* Motor can operate on 215 -- 380 Volts AC
* Motor stand alone weight: 178 lbs. US
* Energy Capacity: PbA - 23 kWh/NiMH - 26 kWh
* Battery Type: PbA/NiMH
* Battery Modules: PbA 39/NiMH - 25
The motors are marked:
* Ford Traction Motor
* Type 1 PV5 133
* F8Y8 148280 AC
* 4W S20 WII
* Th CI, F
* Rated Battery Voltage 250V
* Mfg. By Siemens A.G. (written in German)
* Motor stand alone weight: 178 lbs. US
Thanks
George Underwood
Byron GA
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>What size tires
215/60-r15
>, and how much air pressure?
38 front 40 rear
> Are any of your brakesdragging?
I don't think so, new ones in back, front wheels spin, rear wheels have too
much drive-train to tell
>Do you have the front tires aligned to be perfectly
>straight up and down and also 0 toe? Can you align the rear tires too?
working on that. next paycheck, this car needs a 4 wheel aligment after I check
the bushings,
What size cables did you use in the system?
all 2/0, even the motor loop
>Since that Vicor is sapping off the pack to keep the 12 volt charged,
>could it be messing with your numbers?
not enough to matter apparently, it took me 3400 kwh to go to work before and
after the vicor was added.
>What all do you have running off the 12volt?
vacuum pump, water pump, sometimes headlights. sometimes blower, blower is
biggest drain, can see voltage sag on 12V meter
What's the timing set at on your WarP 9"? Neutral?
Advanced, about 13 degrees? what ever warp sets em too.
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