EV Digest 5441
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Wheels/Tires and rolling resistance
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Team NEDRA dragster?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Battery breakin
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: Wheels/Tires and rolling resistance
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Starter/gen on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) converting a gas mower to electric
by Michael S Briggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Wheels/Tires and rolling resistance
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Starter/gen on eBay
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: WarP 9" motor efficiency and max voltage?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Wheels/Tires and rolling resistance
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Electric Race Car Article
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Joule Injected Nissan at the EV Rally (part 1 - the damage)
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) A night at the Movies
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Electric Race Car Article
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: converting a gas mower to electric
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Joule Injected Nissan at the EV Rally (part 1 - the damage)
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Great list. Shucks, not a 15" tire on it. That was part of the problem
finding them. My buddy's Saturn has the Potenza's. He likes them.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> There is deffinitely room for efficiency improvements with LRR
tires. The problem is there are no real numbers available for all
tires (I know about the green seal list). If they can handle the load
ok I'd recommend going with some Bridgestone Potenza RE92 165/65/14,
which is the Honda Insight OEM tire, which is LRR. Insight owners who
have gone to standard 175/65/14 tires have reported anywhere from a 5
- 10+ mpg loss depending on what exactly they put on the car. Also, if
you can afford it look for some fairly light weight wheels if you want
an extra gain there it will take less energy to rotate less mass.
>
> The Potenza RE92 175/65/14 is also LRR, this is the original Prius
tire. I have Goodyear Integrity tires on my Saturn and compared to the
old no name tires that were on it they made a good 10 amp difference
at cruising speed. I have no numbers on these, but they do
specifically spell out that they are "fuel efficient" so at the least
they are quasi lrr.
>
> Here's another listing of some tires to consider:
>
http://www.bridgestone-firestone.com/news/index_enviro_news.asp?id=2003/030326a
>
> Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I apologize in advance if this topic has been discussed but I don't
seem to be able to access the
> Web Archive to do a search and the manual index EV and the get for
each archive seems to be like
> some archaic form of punishment, so here goes ...
>
> I will be needing to get new tires on my new EV, a 1993 Ford Escort
converted by Soleq. It has
> currently 165/70 R13 tires, Goodyears in the front and Michelins in
the back, some bulging a bit
> and others slow leaking.
>
> I was curious if there would be any rolling resistance advantage to
going with a larger wheel and
> a lower profile tire and still retain the same braking performance
and load carrying. (The vehicle
> with batteries is a little over 4000 lbs.) I am not concerned too
much with cornering or steering
> response (other than basic safety) or cushy ride. Are there other
ways to improve the rolling
> resistance? What replacement tires could be recommended?
>
> My boys would like the 'look' of the larger wheels and I may as well
if I can find the right ones,
> but in doing some research I have found that for the most part
larger diameter wheels/tires
> usually implies wider as well which more than offsets the advantage
of the stiffer sidewall.
>
> Total wheel/tire weight and distribution also came up in my
research. Although I am not going to
> be drag racing.
>
> Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on Yahoo!
FareChase
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: Team NEDRA dragster?
> > One of the immediate plans I had for a "new" NEDRA" if I had been
> > successful in my election bid was to build a Team NEDRA dragster.
>
> Great idea! Lots of possibilities.
> Hey EVErybody:
Nice idea. Now THAT would make some decent TV time<g>! A lotta
logistics here, as to when and WHARE? And who would be the Handlers. I
support ANYthing that gets EV's out in fromt of 3 bux a gal stunned public.
Seeya at Joliet.
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The rain is over in the bay area so it's time to get my Tropica back on the
road. My emeter is on order, old batteries come out Sunday and new ones arrive
on Monday.
There has been a lot of talk about breaking in batteries but I'm still not
really clear on what's needed. Keeping the trips short and then increasing them
over time seems to be key as well as keeping the current down. Can anyone
provide some numbers as a guideline? The Tropica is 72v and pulls about 160amps
at 60mph. Max range on the freeway was about 35 miles. How short should the
first couple of trips be? How long should the breakin period be? My drive to
work is about 12 or 15 miles depending on how I get there and I can charge at
work.
thanks,
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Integrity comes in 15" sizes, that's what I have on the Saturn's stock
alloy wheels. They deffinitely don't have the effortless to roll feel the
Potenza's on my Insight has, but they deffinitely feel like they roll better
than standard tires.
A friend of mine had a production S-10 electric which had the discontinued
TigerPaw LRR truck tires on it and they needed replaced. They had Integrities
put on and the range stayed the same, so they are at least as good as the
TigerPaw LRR tires that Ford and GM used.
Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Great list. Shucks, not a 15" tire on it. That was part of the problem
finding them. My buddy's Saturn has the Potenza's. He likes them.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ricky Suiter wrote:
>
> There is deffinitely room for efficiency improvements with LRR
tires. The problem is there are no real numbers available for all
tires (I know about the green seal list). If they can handle the load
ok I'd recommend going with some Bridgestone Potenza RE92 165/65/14,
which is the Honda Insight OEM tire, which is LRR. Insight owners who
have gone to standard 175/65/14 tires have reported anywhere from a 5
- 10+ mpg loss depending on what exactly they put on the car. Also, if
you can afford it look for some fairly light weight wheels if you want
an extra gain there it will take less energy to rotate less mass.
>
> The Potenza RE92 175/65/14 is also LRR, this is the original Prius
tire. I have Goodyear Integrity tires on my Saturn and compared to the
old no name tires that were on it they made a good 10 amp difference
at cruising speed. I have no numbers on these, but they do
specifically spell out that they are "fuel efficient" so at the least
they are quasi lrr.
>
> Here's another listing of some tires to consider:
>
http://www.bridgestone-firestone.com/news/index_enviro_news.asp?id=2003/030326a
>
> Chet Fields wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I apologize in advance if this topic has been discussed but I don't
seem to be able to access the
> Web Archive to do a search and the manual index EV and the get for
each archive seems to be like
> some archaic form of punishment, so here goes ...
>
> I will be needing to get new tires on my new EV, a 1993 Ford Escort
converted by Soleq. It has
> currently 165/70 R13 tires, Goodyears in the front and Michelins in
the back, some bulging a bit
> and others slow leaking.
>
> I was curious if there would be any rolling resistance advantage to
going with a larger wheel and
> a lower profile tire and still retain the same braking performance
and load carrying. (The vehicle
> with batteries is a little over 4000 lbs.) I am not concerned too
much with cornering or steering
> response (other than basic safety) or cushy ride. Are there other
ways to improve the rolling
> resistance? What replacement tires could be recommended?
>
> My boys would like the 'look' of the larger wheels and I may as well
if I can find the right ones,
> but in doing some research I have found that for the most part
larger diameter wheels/tires
> usually implies wider as well which more than offsets the advantage
of the stiffer sidewall.
>
> Total wheel/tire weight and distribution also came up in my
research. Although I am not going to
> be drag racing.
>
> Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on Yahoo!
FareChase
>
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think this version of GE motor was used by several EVs in the past. Being
rated to handle 1000A sounds like good racing material:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4635709141
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: converting a gas mower to electric
Michael S Briggs wrote:
I'm not looking at converting a *car* to electric -- I want to
convert a riding lawnmower.
GE made a large number of electric garden tractors in the 1970's under
the "ElecTrak" name. There were several sizes (E8, E10, E12...) and
several other companies marketed them under their name (Wheel Horse, New
Idea). They were very durable, and many are still around and in regular
use. You could buy one used; or look at one to get ideas for doing your
own conversion.
That's the recommendation I'm getting frequently. There are a couple
within an hours drive from here that I may look at. I like tinkering
though, so I find it more appealing to convert my gas mower to electric -
especially if I could do it for roughly the same cost as buying a 30 year
old electric tractor and bringing it back to working condition. I'd like
to get a rough idea of how much it might cost me to do the gas-electric
conversion to compare to the cost of buying one of those old Elec-Traks
(another drawback as I see it for the elec-traks is that most have a front
mount mower deck rather than under the belly, which would make it more
difficult to fit into our garage).
The garden tractor style of riding lawm mower is the best start. Cheap
riding mowers are too flimsily built, and can't carry enough batteries
to bother with.
The one I have is the same as this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7761400583&category=50377&fkxs=1
It's a 14.5 hp tractor with a 42" deck. It seems very sturdy, and should
have room for at least 4 12V batteries (or possibly 6 6v or 8v) batteries.
I'm wondering if it would be better to salvage a motor, controller, etc.
from an old electric golf cart, or find new/used ones. Hell, I could
probably make my own controller I suppose....
A friend and I converted his old Wheel Horse garden tractor to electric.
It was a pretty simple process. We replaced the dead 8hp gas engine with
a 1.5hp 24v electric motor, and a separate 24v 3/4hp motor for the mower
deck. We initially used two 12v deep-cycle batteries, but mowing time
was too short (20 minutes). We replaced these to four 6v golf cart
Does it have a manual or hydrostatic tranny? This gas mower has a
hydrostatic (automatic) tranny. I'm not at all familiar with those, so I'm
not sure how the motor will attach to it.
Thanks,
Mike
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Michael S. Briggs
UNH Physics Department
(603) 862-2828
---------------------------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think if you moved to some B381's by Bridgestone you might increase your
range by a few percent. These are the best lrr tires you cam buy and you
only have to go to a 14 inch rim to use it. These are plentiful for your
vehicle. It will cost you 400 for the tires and the rims I'm sure you can
get used. Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chet Fields" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 10:13 AM
Subject: Wheels/Tires and rolling resistance
Hello all,
I apologize in advance if this topic has been discussed but I don't seem
to be able to access the
Web Archive to do a search and the manual index EV and the get for each
archive seems to be like
some archaic form of punishment, so here goes ...
I will be needing to get new tires on my new EV, a 1993 Ford Escort
converted by Soleq. It has
currently 165/70 R13 tires, Goodyears in the front and Michelins in the
back, some bulging a bit
and others slow leaking.
I was curious if there would be any rolling resistance advantage to going
with a larger wheel and
a lower profile tire and still retain the same braking performance and
load carrying. (The vehicle
with batteries is a little over 4000 lbs.) I am not concerned too much
with cornering or steering
response (other than basic safety) or cushy ride. Are there other ways to
improve the rolling
resistance? What replacement tires could be recommended?
My boys would like the 'look' of the larger wheels and I may as well if I
can find the right ones,
but in doing some research I have found that for the most part larger
diameter wheels/tires
usually implies wider as well which more than offsets the advantage of the
stiffer sidewall.
Total wheel/tire weight and distribution also came up in my research.
Although I am not going to
be drag racing.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The motor sent out to high schools and colleges by GE
was the 5BT1346B50,
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/ge2.gif
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/ge1.gif
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/ge3.gif
Not sure what that beast is!
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I think this version of GE motor was used by several
> EVs in the past. Being
> rated to handle 1000A sounds like good racing
> material:
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4635709141
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Will have to scan graphs.
Please do! I'd really like to see the curves from a DC motor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Tiger paws I replaced had no markings for LRR. When I put the
Viva's on at 50 psi there was an improvement over the Tiger Paws.
Mike
--- Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Integrity comes in 15" sizes, that's what I have on the Saturn's
> stock alloy wheels. They deffinitely don't have the effortless to
> roll feel the Potenza's on my Insight has, but they deffinitely feel
> like they roll better than standard tires.
>
> A friend of mine had a production S-10 electric which had the
> discontinued TigerPaw LRR truck tires on it and they needed replaced.
> They had Integrities put on and the range stayed the same, so they
> are at least as good as the TigerPaw LRR tires that Ford and GM used.
>
> Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Great list. Shucks, not a 15" tire on it. That was part of the
> problem
> finding them. My buddy's Saturn has the Potenza's. He likes them.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ricky Suiter wrote:
> >
> > There is deffinitely room for efficiency improvements with LRR
> tires. The problem is there are no real numbers available for all
> tires (I know about the green seal list). If they can handle the load
> ok I'd recommend going with some Bridgestone Potenza RE92 165/65/14,
> which is the Honda Insight OEM tire, which is LRR. Insight owners who
> have gone to standard 175/65/14 tires have reported anywhere from a 5
> - 10+ mpg loss depending on what exactly they put on the car. Also,
> if
> you can afford it look for some fairly light weight wheels if you
> want
> an extra gain there it will take less energy to rotate less mass.
> >
> > The Potenza RE92 175/65/14 is also LRR, this is the original Prius
> tire. I have Goodyear Integrity tires on my Saturn and compared to
> the
> old no name tires that were on it they made a good 10 amp difference
> at cruising speed. I have no numbers on these, but they do
> specifically spell out that they are "fuel efficient" so at the least
> they are quasi lrr.
> >
> > Here's another listing of some tires to consider:
> >
>
http://www.bridgestone-firestone.com/news/index_enviro_news.asp?id=2003/030326a
> >
> > Chet Fields wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I apologize in advance if this topic has been discussed but I don't
> seem to be able to access the
> > Web Archive to do a search and the manual index EV and the get for
> each archive seems to be like
> > some archaic form of punishment, so here goes ...
> >
> > I will be needing to get new tires on my new EV, a 1993 Ford Escort
> converted by Soleq. It has
> > currently 165/70 R13 tires, Goodyears in the front and Michelins in
> the back, some bulging a bit
> > and others slow leaking.
> >
> > I was curious if there would be any rolling resistance advantage to
> going with a larger wheel and
> > a lower profile tire and still retain the same braking performance
> and load carrying. (The vehicle
> > with batteries is a little over 4000 lbs.) I am not concerned too
> much with cornering or steering
> > response (other than basic safety) or cushy ride. Are there other
> ways to improve the rolling
> > resistance? What replacement tires could be recommended?
> >
> > My boys would like the 'look' of the larger wheels and I may as
> well
> if I can find the right ones,
> > but in doing some research I have found that for the most part
> larger diameter wheels/tires
> > usually implies wider as well which more than offsets the advantage
> of the stiffer sidewall.
> >
> > Total wheel/tire weight and distribution also came up in my
> research. Although I am not going to
> > be drag racing.
> >
> > Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on Yahoo!
> FareChase
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Later,
> Ricky
> 02 Insight
> 92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
> Glendale, AZ USA
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and
> 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawson,
There is an interesting electric race car article in Race Car Engineering
magazine.
They published my 'Letter to the Editor' in Race Car Engineering two issues
before (Vol 16 No 3). I copy it below for those who might not happen to
have subscribed to this obscure (but excellent) English Engineering
magazine.
<While most active list members would find a lot of the info redundant,>
There was some good research done by the writer. NEDRA, Current Eliminator,
Kill-a-cycle and Formula Lightning were all mentioned. Even EAA!
The car designer, Martin Ogilvie, former chief designer for Team Lotus has
converter a nice composite roadster (Wisper-Westfield In Structural Plastics
Electric Roadster) but is still planning his racecar. The Specs say he plans
to run 60 Volts which seems odd. The roadster runs Hawkers. It looks like
20 of them but it is not clear if he is running them as 240 volts or two 120
volt packs.
<the twin DC motor and drive setup appeared very unique and well
engineered.>
Yes, those motors are nice looking and it seems he is running two sets of
twin motors for AWD. The two motors sit side by side but pointed opposite
directions. They share an integrated bell housing / gear / half shaft
connection on each end so that you can mount the motors in place of a diff.
There does not seem to be a website. Anyone know more?
My letter is below:
Dear Sir,
In your 'Write Line' editorial in Vol 15 No 12, you worry that in a world
threatened by global warming, motorsports emissions will make motorsports as
socially unacceptable as smoking. What you rightly see as a problem, might
also be looked at as an opportunity.
It is through the challenges of racing that the world has developed quicker,
stronger and more reliable cars. Today, the rules keep changing but race
teams continue to find ways to make cars even better.
The racing industry should approach global warming as just another rule
change: The race vehicle can not be powered by an internal combustion
engine. It is still racing. Suspensions, aero, tires. The powertrain guys
are going to have to learn some new tricks, but it is still about converting
stored energy into motion.
Our race team has a head start. ProEV's Electric Imp powered by Kokam's
lithium polymer batteries is already competing. The 235 horsepower, 370
ft-lbs torque (at 0 RPM) AWD Impreza chassis is undefeated in SCCA D
modified autocross. Our best finish in sprint (around 30 miles) road racing
is a rather lucky 2nd place but we expect an honest victory (against gas
powered competition) in 2006.
Walk around a typical racing paddock. Look at all that intelligence and
creativity focused on dropping that extra 10th of a second. Are not these
the people who can take the electric car and make it as fast as today's gas
powered car? Is not this the challenge that can make racing relevant again?
Sincerely:
Clifford Rassweiler
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matt
I have seen couplers that rely on two sprockets and a chain. I believe
someone built an dragster years ago with two engines, and used this method
to couple them. You use two identical sprockets (Picture a bicycle sprocket
or a flex plate)put one on each shaft, then push them close together. Take a
length of chain and wrap it around the two sprockets, joining it together
with a master link.
Sorry this is a poor description. If it doesn't make sense, I will try
again.
David C Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"The Bush administration's priorities are
"a little bit different now and veterans aren't a priority,"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 12:56 PM
Subject: Joule Injected Nissan at the EV Rally (part 1 - the damage)
Hey everyone,
As promised, here's a description of some of the recent events with the
240SX. Warning: read it when you've got some real time to kill!
The end of last week was crazy-hectic. Trying to balance work and sleep
with
a frantic effort to complete some improvements on the car and
modifications
for the generator/trailer in time for the Ft. Pierce EV Rally. Well, I
wasn't able to get the hitch and wiring installed, but thought that I
still
might be able to make the EV trek up there--about 35 miles. Saturday
morning
I was still installing my new switch panel and cleaning up the interior,
and
afterwards, I wanted to take the car out for a brief run and recharge to
get
the batteries in tip-top condition.
Originally intending to just ease the car around the neighborhood, I came
across a friend that was owed a ride in the car. I picked him up and we
got
outside of the residential area so I could at least accelerate up to 45-50
mph. Well, when the acceleration was requested, I got little satisfaction
in
return. I was pretty sure the differential finally gave up and said
"Uncle!"
I heard a clicking/popping noise and smelled something like burning
clutch,
and basically the car went nowhere. However, after letting back off the
accelerator, then gradually applying pressure, the car eased forward
again.
Driving nice and easily after that, everything seemed to be fine.
I really wanted to make it up to the rally, and so after getting the car
back on charge at the house, I gave Steve a call. He told me that I could
charge up at a lawn customer's house, about 20 miles away from me on the
way
to the rally. So, after topping off the batteries, off I went! Worse case,
I'd need a tow back to the house, so what did I have to lose but the
afternoon?
The trip was uneventful, but still thrilling for me. Even tuned down, the
car is so much fun to drive. Nice and quiet, with both windows down, it
was
cool enough for a comfortable drive up to Port Saint Lucie. I got to Dot's
house around noon, and we chatted for about an hour and a half while the
batteries were topped off again. As we talked, I thought about how,
although
not "convenient" to wait for a recharge, it afforded me this great
opportunity to meet someone new and have a relaxed conversation. Not
racing
around from one point to another, isolated in our shiny metal boxes. In
some
ways, it's sort of a benefit of driving an EV.
Anyway, I was back on the road around 1:30PM and finished the last leg of
the trip without any problems. The car seemed to forget all about it's
earlier difficulties. I pulled into the Advance Auto parking lot and
backed
right into a choice parking spot near the other EVs. I'll let Steve or
someone else describe the rest of the event, since I got there so late. I
felt a lot of eyes on me as I got out and popped the hood and rear hatch.
I
think 10-15 people swarmed the car and I began a two-hour long Q&A about
the
conversion process, components and the car's performance. There were so
many
interested people there with great questions. It was a great event!
At the end of the Rally one of the guys there jokingly asked for a ride. I
shut the hood and said, "get in!" We eased out of the parking spot as
everyone around was grinning at the silent departure. I pulled around
behind
the store to the deserted strip mall with a huge, empty parking lot. I
didn't want to push my luck, so I just gave the accelerator a quick push
to
around half-throttle. Apparently, that was a bit too much! As the car
stood
still and the motors whined up in RPM, I knew the key in the driveshaft
coupling must have let go. To add insult to injury, after taking the key
out
of the ignition at first, I put it back in to unlock the steering column
and
push the car back into a parking spot, then proceeded to lock both doors
afterwards! For future reference, it takes approximately 30 seconds to
break
into a 1990 240SX. ;-)
I had just planned on leaving the car there and catching a ride back with
Charles Whalen on his return to Delray Beach, but after a talk with Steve
and a loan of some rope, we opted for a tow back to Steve's shop. It must
have been some sight to see the RAV4 EV towing my car a few miles, and I
was
hoping that everyone would interpret it as an EV towing an everyday
gas-powered 240SX! Steve had to run off and play in his band, so after
confirming that he had some 1/4" keystock at the shop, Charles and I
hooked
up the tow rope between our cars.
Man, I have even greater respect for that little RAV4 EV now! Granted, we
were taking the trip nice and slowly, but it powered right on and brought
me
and my car right to Steve's shop. Charles got the RAV4 on charge and we
proceeded to get the rear of the Nissan up on some jack stands. Soon after
this, though, it was clear that the jack stands needed to be at the other
end of the car. Sure enough, turning the driveshaft also nicely turned the
rear motor, but left the front motor stationary. Rats! It's the coupling
area that's the problem, and the good money's on the little 3/16" key on
the
smaller diameter tailshaft. That means a complete removal of the entire
motor assembly!
To make an even longer story less long, it was in fact the smaller key
that
sheared right off in the keyway of the tailshaft. Charles gave me a ride
back to the house that night, sort of on the way back to Delray
Beach--about
a 90 mile trip. No problem for him since he won the long distance
competition held earlier that day! I'll let him fill in the details of
that
event, as well as the Miami Beach Earth Day show he helped organize and we
attended only a few short hours later!
Part 2 - Repairs will be concluded later tonight or tomorrow, depending on
my progress. So far I can tell you it is (much) uglier than it sounds, so
a
working EV tomorrow may be a long shot. It's funny--even though the car is
not functional and I have a long night of repairs ahead of me, I am
grinning
right now. There's something very satisfying about the force required to
shear key stock in half! ;-)
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
http://www.jouleinjected.com <http://www.jouleinjected.com>
Hobe Sound, FL
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Hi EVerybody;
Yesterday ventured down to the Big Apple, NYC to go to the Movies. Usually
movies come to me, via Netflix, but THIS one was different. The NYC opening of"
Who Killed the Electric Car"Dave Goldstein had also planned to go, so we made
plans to make an EVening of it. As the times were tough for most working folks,
midweak, late hours, hidiously expensive public transit to get there.
So I started down yesterday morning by train, plugging in at the Station,
just like my working/commuting daze of last year, got into town around noon,
hopped on the old faithful "Trek" bike to scope ouyt the setup, or FIND the
Trebeca Film Festival Theater, where "Whi Killed the Electric Car" was showing,
picked up my online ordered tickets. Just like Jet Blue, you can order and pay
for your tickets from afar, for only 13 bux, but this is NYC, so ya pay yur
money and whatever<g>! Dave's bus, a cheepo from DC only TWENTY bux! This has
to be the best bargain in travel.Compare to Amtrak's 70 or so offerings, but
where else can ya do 125mph to the happy hum of traction motors? These Chinese
bus outfits, I don't know how they make any money? Up here we have the Fung Hwa
Bus, REALLY! Google the hell out of it !Offering hourly departures They run
fancy state of the are BIG busses.No more Ford Econolines!That's what it sez in
English on it. Freely translated I think it means " Gl!
orious Wind?" Now THAT'S a great name for a bus co, IMHO!! Love the Chinese
penchant for naming stuff, cars, busses, batteries<g>!
Anyhow, back to the story, we were to meet about 6PM, the bus was early, so
Dave walked over to the Film Festival place, we hooked up, by then I had put
the bike back in the Penn Station Crew Room, where I used to keep it in my
working daze, meet Dave on an equal footing?We were to meet up with Steve
Hammond and his wife at the Hunan Pan Chinesy restaurant thst I had often
enjoyed in my Amtrak daze, on layovers, for lunch an' dinner. We ALL hooked up
there and had a great dinner. The Greenwich Village is a great Common Folk
type place for restaurants, they abound in any ethnic flaver, you could EVer
think of. Showtime was drawing near, step outside, flagged down a cab, and
headed over to the Film thing. It was interesting, as I sat up front with the
nice Egyptian guy driving, how gas prices were killing HIM too. We talked EV's
and how his 150 miles a day he duz in a 12 hour shift, could be done in an EV-2
,4 door,Nmh dream cab. He had all our flyers after we arrived. We !
arrived at the Trbecca Film thing, Red Carpet! Cool! Not yur Multiplex in
Peoria<g>! The NYC spin on going to the Movies, but Hell, for 13 bux, it SHOULD
be a bit more elegent??We went into the great hall, a REAL theater, not those
home theaters ya get at the Cinima One -Through-too-Many, back home. A BIG
screen. The show started to fill in, as time came around. But it was easy to go
around and chat folks up, EVen guyz that had HAD EV-1's! So you had a warm
feeling that you were among friends. Dave an' I passed out our printed
propaganda, nobody at the theater cared, I thought that they might have made an
issue. They said :" Go ahead, knock yourself out" We did, talking EV's and I
said that I started out to come in in an EV, it was patiently waiting for me at
the Train Station, bla bla.Now here we were deep in NYC country, where most
EV's are Subway cars. No EAA Chapter in hundreds of miles, or OPERATING EV.
Seth Rothenberg? Ya listening? Ha Ha, You would actualy be able to!
DRIVE electric over the Geo Washington Bridge and down the West Side
Hiway to the movies<G>If you had it all together, Ofcourse you're on your own,
with the NYC Parking Challange. I think they take second mortgages now to Park
in NYC lots? I''ll bet HAD I arrived in an EV, and asked nicely, that the
Trebeca Folks MIGHT have let let me park on the side of the red carpet?? Be a
bit cheeky to ask for an outlet, though.
But chatting up the audience, handing out our "the Electric Car isn't Dead"
flyers it was fun to get tjhe feel of the folks that graced the
auditorium.Chris Payne, the producer thanked us for coming. A schedule snafu
prevented it getting the proper program listing, though. The Trebeca Folks
apologized for that. They show many contriversial films. One of the reasons I
left the bike in town, so I can hop on a train and go see a movie I could NEVER
see locally.
Showtime! The lights dimmed and EV-1's flashed in our faces bigger than
life! Great Eye candy shots of EV's Folks talking about EV's Doug Korthof was
great, can put a face with the name. Was hoping to see a Zombie run and John
Wayland doing a cameo?But the filnm stayed to the point. The EV1 Funerals, the
heartrending stacks of crushed EV-1's in AZ, the Burbank Bahurara, when the
Last Roundup ,took place. General Murders hauling them off in the night, like
thives. Well, I guess they had EVery right, they were Their cars, but still, if
that's their idea of Customer Service? I call them General Murders, with no
guilt. After that I will NEVER buy a GM product again, unless it's a NEW EV-1.
Hey! GM, My check's waiting, as it was offered the FIRST time I drove an EV-1
Now THAT's Customer Loyalty! Forrest green , please, although Silver would be
fine?ANY GODAMN, color I don't care!
Back to the Moooovie; It was a stunning indightment of the whole system! The
cave in CARB, the Auto and oil Co's the Best Govt. Oil Money can buy. Ok I'm
getting too political here, but to see the people that actually OWNED the
production EV's. Well, I'm sorta preaching to the Choir here, too, but the film
was bright, in your face, brazin, and loud. I loved it! Good to see some of the
EV Movers and shakers, in "Person" Something magic about a BIG screen. A fine
shot of deer old Stanley Ovshinshy, and his wife in the interview. He got a
spontanuious round of applause over his statement, I won't spoil it, coming to
a theater near you? Had they had DVD's for sale I woulda bought a bunch to send
out.The trailer on line sets the theme pretty well.
All to soon, the lights went on and it was over. You are siting there
rather stunned at what you have seen. A GREAT show, EVerybody was saying. There
was a question and answer thing after the show. Chris Payne, the producer
answered qurestions from the fans. It was after 11 and I was starting to run
out of trains back to CT so I had to split, but not until I got to thank Chris
Paine for making it happen.
It will be showing again, a few more times in it's NYC engagment. If ya can
see it, do. This pix should be on Prime Time TV with a Govt order to watch.EV's
are on more people's minds. My conducter on the train wanted a E-Rav-4 for his
wife, asked where he could buy one? I said;" bid a job in with LOTTSA overtime,
as they are going for 67k used!" I said, like Real Estate, they ' aint making
anymore, hence the outragious, to a civilian, price for joining the EV
club.Funny , but nowadaze MORE folks ask" WHERE can I buy one?" Jerry? Got yur
ears on?Freedom EV has a fanclub, already. I mention that it IS in the works,
people say" Yeah!?? Where and WHEN?"Not so much How Much? But WHEN?Since the
torch has been passed to us, here as it doesn't look too promising for anything
from OUR majors. China? Stay tuned?
Anyhow a great nite out at the Movies!
Seeya at the Races
Bob
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ProEV wrote:
> The car designer, Martin Ogilvie, former chief designer for
> Team Lotus has converter a nice composite roadster
> (Wisper-Westfield In Structural Plastics Electric Roadster)
> but is still planning his racecar. The Specs say he plans
> to run 60 Volts which seems odd. The roadster runs Hawkers.
> It looks like 20 of them but it is not clear if he is
> running them as 240 volts or two 120 volt packs.
>
> <the twin DC motor and drive setup appeared very unique and
> well engineered.>
>
> Yes, those motors are nice looking and it seems he is running
> two sets of twin motors for AWD. The two motors sit side by
> side but pointed opposite directions.
Without pictures it is difficult to draw reliable conclusions, but from
what you've described, I storngly suspect 4 packs of 60V, one feeding
each motor, and that the 4 motors are Lynch/Lemco units. The 60V limit
would then make sense as in unmodified trim these motors can overrev and
self destruct on much more than 60V.
I expect Paul Compton may know more about this project...
Cheers,
Roger.
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I have a similar if not the same sears mower. If your tranny is good you don't
need a controller possibly. On mine I just yanked off the blown 15hp kohler and
dropping in an etek. Just a two contactor system. one with a resistor one
without. There used to be an actual etek made with a 1" shaft that was tapped
on the end that would drop right in but I was unable and still aren't able to
find that.
What I ended up doing is taking apart the ICE and cutting off the shaft. Then
I got an adaptor to fit that shaft with its pulleys to the etek which ended up
being mounded on about 2 1/2" spacers. Not the greatest or possible best long
term way but it has worked for over a season so far. I also kinda hogtied 40
BB600 cells which I wasn't using for 48 volts of 30 amp nicad power.
Michael S Briggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Lee Hart
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: converting a gas mower to electric
Michael S Briggs wrote:
>> I'm not looking at converting a *car* to electric -- I want to
>> convert a riding lawnmower.
>GE made a large number of electric garden tractors in the 1970's under
>the "ElecTrak" name. There were several sizes (E8, E10, E12...) and
>several other companies marketed them under their name (Wheel Horse, New
>Idea). They were very durable, and many are still around and in regular
>use. You could buy one used; or look at one to get ideas for doing your
>own conversion.
That's the recommendation I'm getting frequently. There are a couple
within an hours drive from here that I may look at. I like tinkering
though, so I find it more appealing to convert my gas mower to electric -
especially if I could do it for roughly the same cost as buying a 30 year
old electric tractor and bringing it back to working condition. I'd like
to get a rough idea of how much it might cost me to do the gas-electric
conversion to compare to the cost of buying one of those old Elec-Traks
(another drawback as I see it for the elec-traks is that most have a front
mount mower deck rather than under the belly, which would make it more
difficult to fit into our garage).
>The garden tractor style of riding lawm mower is the best start. Cheap
>riding mowers are too flimsily built, and can't carry enough batteries
>to bother with.
The one I have is the same as this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7761400583&category=50377&fkxs=1
It's a 14.5 hp tractor with a 42" deck. It seems very sturdy, and should
have room for at least 4 12V batteries (or possibly 6 6v or 8v) batteries.
I'm wondering if it would be better to salvage a motor, controller, etc.
from an old electric golf cart, or find new/used ones. Hell, I could
probably make my own controller I suppose....
>A friend and I converted his old Wheel Horse garden tractor to electric.
>It was a pretty simple process. We replaced the dead 8hp gas engine with
>a 1.5hp 24v electric motor, and a separate 24v 3/4hp motor for the mower
>deck. We initially used two 12v deep-cycle batteries, but mowing time
>was too short (20 minutes). We replaced these to four 6v golf cart
Does it have a manual or hydrostatic tranny? This gas mower has a
hydrostatic (automatic) tranny. I'm not at all familiar with those, so I'm
not sure how the motor will attach to it.
Thanks,
Mike
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Michael S. Briggs
UNH Physics Department
(603) 862-2828
---------------------------------------------------------------
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Hey Matt
Sorry to hear you've seared the key off, but I was wondering if it was the
coupled connection key then why didn't the rear motor still (attempt) to drive
the car? When you say that you gave it half throttle and heard the motors rev
but no car go-go it makes me wonder if the rear has gone to, as the rear motor
should have pushed the car EVen if sounding very ugly 8^ (
Does that make sense??
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
"Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey everyone,
As promised, here's a description of some of the recent events with the
240SX. Warning: read it when you've got some real time to kill!
The end of last week was crazy-hectic. Trying to balance work and sleep with
a frantic effort to complete some improvements on the car and modifications
for the generator/trailer in time for the Ft. Pierce EV Rally. Well, I
wasn't able to get the hitch and wiring installed, but thought that I still
might be able to make the EV trek up there--about 35 miles. Saturday morning
I was still installing my new switch panel and cleaning up the interior, and
afterwards, I wanted to take the car out for a brief run and recharge to get
the batteries in tip-top condition.
Originally intending to just ease the car around the neighborhood, I came
across a friend that was owed a ride in the car. I picked him up and we got
outside of the residential area so I could at least accelerate up to 45-50
mph. Well, when the acceleration was requested, I got little satisfaction in
return. I was pretty sure the differential finally gave up and said "Uncle!"
I heard a clicking/popping noise and smelled something like burning clutch,
and basically the car went nowhere. However, after letting back off the
accelerator, then gradually applying pressure, the car eased forward again.
Driving nice and easily after that, everything seemed to be fine.
I really wanted to make it up to the rally, and so after getting the car
back on charge at the house, I gave Steve a call. He told me that I could
charge up at a lawn customer's house, about 20 miles away from me on the way
to the rally. So, after topping off the batteries, off I went! Worse case,
I'd need a tow back to the house, so what did I have to lose but the
afternoon?
The trip was uneventful, but still thrilling for me. Even tuned down, the
car is so much fun to drive. Nice and quiet, with both windows down, it was
cool enough for a comfortable drive up to Port Saint Lucie. I got to Dot's
house around noon, and we chatted for about an hour and a half while the
batteries were topped off again. As we talked, I thought about how, although
not "convenient" to wait for a recharge, it afforded me this great
opportunity to meet someone new and have a relaxed conversation. Not racing
around from one point to another, isolated in our shiny metal boxes. In some
ways, it's sort of a benefit of driving an EV.
Anyway, I was back on the road around 1:30PM and finished the last leg of
the trip without any problems. The car seemed to forget all about it's
earlier difficulties. I pulled into the Advance Auto parking lot and backed
right into a choice parking spot near the other EVs. I'll let Steve or
someone else describe the rest of the event, since I got there so late. I
felt a lot of eyes on me as I got out and popped the hood and rear hatch. I
think 10-15 people swarmed the car and I began a two-hour long Q&A about the
conversion process, components and the car's performance. There were so many
interested people there with great questions. It was a great event!
At the end of the Rally one of the guys there jokingly asked for a ride. I
shut the hood and said, "get in!" We eased out of the parking spot as
everyone around was grinning at the silent departure. I pulled around behind
the store to the deserted strip mall with a huge, empty parking lot. I
didn't want to push my luck, so I just gave the accelerator a quick push to
around half-throttle. Apparently, that was a bit too much! As the car stood
still and the motors whined up in RPM, I knew the key in the driveshaft
coupling must have let go. To add insult to injury, after taking the key out
of the ignition at first, I put it back in to unlock the steering column and
push the car back into a parking spot, then proceeded to lock both doors
afterwards! For future reference, it takes approximately 30 seconds to break
into a 1990 240SX. ;-)
I had just planned on leaving the car there and catching a ride back with
Charles Whalen on his return to Delray Beach, but after a talk with Steve
and a loan of some rope, we opted for a tow back to Steve's shop. It must
have been some sight to see the RAV4 EV towing my car a few miles, and I was
hoping that everyone would interpret it as an EV towing an everyday
gas-powered 240SX! Steve had to run off and play in his band, so after
confirming that he had some 1/4" keystock at the shop, Charles and I hooked
up the tow rope between our cars.
Man, I have even greater respect for that little RAV4 EV now! Granted, we
were taking the trip nice and slowly, but it powered right on and brought me
and my car right to Steve's shop. Charles got the RAV4 on charge and we
proceeded to get the rear of the Nissan up on some jack stands. Soon after
this, though, it was clear that the jack stands needed to be at the other
end of the car. Sure enough, turning the driveshaft also nicely turned the
rear motor, but left the front motor stationary. Rats! It's the coupling
area that's the problem, and the good money's on the little 3/16" key on the
smaller diameter tailshaft. That means a complete removal of the entire
motor assembly!
To make an even longer story less long, it was in fact the smaller key that
sheared right off in the keyway of the tailshaft. Charles gave me a ride
back to the house that night, sort of on the way back to Delray Beach--about
a 90 mile trip. No problem for him since he won the long distance
competition held earlier that day! I'll let him fill in the details of that
event, as well as the Miami Beach Earth Day show he helped organize and we
attended only a few short hours later!
Part 2 - Repairs will be concluded later tonight or tomorrow, depending on
my progress. So far I can tell you it is (much) uglier than it sounds, so a
working EV tomorrow may be a long shot. It's funny--even though the car is
not functional and I have a long night of repairs ahead of me, I am grinning
right now. There's something very satisfying about the force required to
shear key stock in half! ;-)
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
http://www.jouleinjected.com
Hobe Sound, FL
---------------------------------
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