EV Digest 5448
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Ford bolts, ie. battery clamp bolts
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) E-meter repairs, plus OT mine rescue.
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Fort Pierce rally part 1
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brad Baylor)
4) RE: Article 625 .. face to face .. with that ONE "genius" who
inflicted this "absurdity" on the rest of us .....
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Article 625 .. face to face .. with that ONE "genius" who inflicted
this "absurdity" on the rest of us .....
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Fort Pierce rally part 1
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brad Baylor)
7) bulb regs and Magnechargers
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Steering unit
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Sources of Energy
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Fixing a Mower Conversion
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Regen question again :-(
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Logos (was RE: sheilding for zilla wiring)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Regen question again :-(
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Article 625 .. face to face .. with that ONE "genius" who inflicted
this "absurdity" on the rest of us .....
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Sources of Energy
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Pot Box Adjustments for a Zilla
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Raptor Overheating
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Still blowing fuses
by Calvin King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) EMB's .. hey .. its a commercial product already ..
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Steering unit
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) EMB .. commercial product .. 'regenerative braking' ??
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Fixing a Mower Conversion
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) hey ! where is the EV market ?
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Still blowing fuses
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) the tango vs other EV's of the future ..
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: converting a gas mower to electric
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: steering unit
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: So what's the big deal?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I believe the term you are wanting is Parkerized.
I have seen some companies just use a heavy grease to seal the exposed
metal, anything to keep the corrosive atmosphere away from the exposed
surface, although it is somewhate messy.
respectfully,
John
58 Harley Servicar conversion in progress
www.indele.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL post" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 3:21 PM
Subject: Ford bolts, ie. battery clamp bolts
Hello All,
When I put together my new pack of US125s about a year ago, I
ordered new fastener hardware for the automotive post clamps. My
old bolts and nuts were pretty rusty after sitting for several
years next to the cell caps. So the fellow EV'er that was
helping me said that I could get Ford bolts (4-sided bolt heads)
from our local US Battery rep (where I had just bought the new
batts). I ordered the new bolts, which are dark grey because of
a process called pokarization (sic? - I need to get that spelling
down). The problem with the new set is that the bolts were too
long, sticking out well beyond the side of the automotive clamp,
running interference with the closest cell cover. So we
shortened the bolts down, and we painted (Rustoleum red) the cut,
since the pokarization is only a surface treatment, or so I'm
told. Well, after about a year the fumes from the cells is
attacking some of the cut bolt ends, and it's getting to be a
rather ugly powdery mess under the lug covers that I really don't
like to have to clean up every monthly battery maintenance
session. Any suggestions as to where I can get correct-length
bolts, or do you all think that stainless steel might work? I
tried Google-ing "pokarized", "Ford bolts", etc. but didn't get
very far. Hex bolts won't work, I think, because the automotive
clamp has that flat bevel to keep the bolt head from turning when
you turn the nut on the other end. Maybe I should bug the US
Battery rep again, but I think he gave me what he had, and that
is that.
Thanks,
Chuck
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day All
Has anyone got the contact details to send an E-meter/link 10 for repair? I
had one sent to me, it has a dead processor, but I can't find a processor
that is the permutation of the processor used & I don't know if another
version will work.
Thanks.
Completely off-topic, we had a couple of days ago what must be an all-time
best reason to not go to a customers' breakdown.
For those who don't know, a minor earthquake dropped the roof of of a mine
tunnel near here onto a machine that two miners were in the "cherrypicker"
cage of. The driver unfortunately didn't make it, but the two in the cage
became trapped in a space not much bigger than the cage. They were found,
and a 90mm PVC pipe was able to be got through to them to send them stuff.
We repair pipe cameras, amongst other things, and one of our customers
turned up with a push camera (a ball camera on the end of 70m [around 200
feet] of fibreglass rod with wire embedded in it) for repair. "We need it
ASAP, plus we need a system that we can push a microphone and an earphone
through a 70mm (around 3") pipe to the miners trapped in Beaconsfield gold
mine". So we had to cancel all other work for myself and my main electronic
tech for the day. Tell the customer why and their attitude immediately
changes from "Drop everything, I must have you here now" to "take all the
time you need".
The hardest part was finding things NOW that'd suit the job. A very
satisfying job to get done, wether they are using it, I don't know, but
expect so.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And I was like, where the heck is Fort Pierce.. and is this damn piece
of junk car going to make it.. long story short, my '89 Olds Delta 88
with a bazillion miles died with no oil pressure and a blown engine
and will soon be crushed at A.C. Salvage in Fort Pierce. With no car
rental places open on Sunday there, Greyhound saved the day and I was
able to make it back to Tampa by Sunday evening (good thing too as all
the phones and internet at work were dead Monday morning, and I'm the
one responsible for fixing that stuff..). But it's poetic justice that
going to an electric vehicle rally killed a gas car. :-P
The rally was great! I didn't get the names of all the vehicles'
owners but ones I especially remember:
Steve Clunn's truck with the Warp 9, Zilla 2k and a whole bunch of
Orbitals. Damn that is a big ass motor! Thanks for the demo! :)
Matt Graham's sports car with the Zilla 2k and Orbitals. Matt did you
say this has two motors? What make car is it? Bet it's a blast to
drive!
The white car on the trailer with the huge rear wheels and single
steering wheel, that if I heard correctly, free swivels and steering
is actually done by varying the power of two independant motors via a
joystick. Tom ? I believe his name was.
The Toyota RAV4 Electic. Wow! what an impressive level of integration.
Didn't look "techy" and could be used by normal people. Why oh why is
this not in production.... though I'd miss the techy look part if I
had one.. :)
The open air roadster with the Orbitals and Zilla 1k. Beautiful
vehicle. Who owns this? Website anyone?
Brad Baylor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AGMs do emit hydrogen under normal operating conditions.
They don't emit nearly as much as flooded batteries, but they do
indeed emit hydrogen. The recombination process is not prefect.
There are Bunsen valves on AGMs. That is why they are also
called Valve-Regulated Lead-Acid (VRLA) batteries. These valves
operate and vent hydrogen even if you very, very gently charge your
AGM batteries.
>>>> "Contacts Made Live" <<<<<
One of the worst phrases in 625 is "contacts made live". The
article requires that all contacts on the plug be covered when it is
removed from the receptacle, if they ever had voltage of any sort.
This makes the connector very expensive needlessly. Even if the
contacts are dead before the connector comes apart, they must be
covered after it is apart. Even if the contacts carry very low
voltage signals, they must be covered.
This is the difference between "live contacts" and "contacts
made live".
It is also very stupid to require a locking connector on a
vehicle that might roll away. If the car rolls away, is towed away,
is hit by another car, or somehow drives away while plugged in,
sparks are going to fly. When the cord breaks or the charger is
ripped off the wall, bare live conductors will be left dangling. The
connector should be required to be NON-LOCKING instead so that
nothing bad happens if the vehicle moves while plugged in.
Bill Dube'
At 09:15 PM 5/4/2006, you wrote:
Peekay wrote:
> instead of discussing the words and meanings and the
> motives and the reasons .. will some people group
> together and find out that ONE guy who inflicted
> this kind of absurdity on us ?
Before assuming it is complete absurdity, consider such things as
failure modes, etc.
Rich Rudman wrote:
> > The part I love about NEC Art 625 is the page and half devoted to
> > extracting Hydrogen gas and fumes. 1000s of CFM of airflow are
> > required... And Well a well designed AGM charger won't vent ANY
> > Gas...
The CFM requirements are pretty modest until you get to absurd charge
levels. At 100A of 240VAC input power only 500CFM are required (and
only required for indoor charging under certain conditions).
What happens to that non-venting AGM when something goes wrong while
humping 240kW into it? How big is the battery that might be used with
the higher charge powers that are associated with the higher ventilation
requirements?
How different are these ventilation requirements from established
industry standards for the battery rooms used for material handling
equipment?
There's lots to dislike about Article 625, but that doesn't mean there
aren't sound reasons for at least some of what it contains.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Before assuming it is complete absurdity, consider such things as
> failure modes, etc.
> There's lots to dislike about Article 625, but that doesn't mean there
> aren't sound reasons for at least some of what it contains.
quite on the point .. and i agree fully .. there always ARE several
good points in most laws .. there is no doubt that these are not
only good, but need to be implemented properly .. else we all
will land up doing what we think is the only right way .. which
may hurt, affect other people
my suggestion to have a look at the guy(s) who are the cause
of the 'absurd' parts of laws, rules, procedures .. do apply ONLY
to the 'absurd' parts of those thingys .. especially when there are
very powerful vested interests which force such absurd, strict,
debilitating provisions to be inserted into the rules & procedures
there will always be people who would want others to NOT do things
which hurt their interests .. this is a natural thing .. happens all the
time
but it IS upto those responsible for making the rules to ensure that
this does NOT happen .. and when it does, it will be perhaps okay
to know the guy(s) behind the wrongs inflicted
..peekay
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ack! correction.. Steve has a Warp 11 in the truck! Was thinking about
the Warp 9 I ordered from him.. :-P
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Today I did the first full drive with the car after installing the regs.
A short drive, just 6ah worth. Then I put the car on the Magnecharger
and checked in an hour later.
The car was already down to the trickle charge rate, with 4.5ah to go.
Interesting; I set the car to charge at 6a till 340, then kick down to
1.0a to 365. And voltage was only 330 at 1.0a rate.
So I looked at the temp sensors and went "oooh".
The regs are bolted to the copper interconnects which connect the
batteries. The temp sensors are flush with 7 interconnects throughout
the batteries. Thus I can watch the post temps of 14 batteries out of
50. Fairly good sample.
Well, two of the temp sensors were reading 32c, while the rest were
reading 27c. This was causing the temp compensation (.1mv/cell) to tell
the MC the battery voltage was 10 volts higher than it was, thus kicking
the charger to the next step early.
Restarting the charge and watching temps was interesting. I watched as
those temp sensors went up to 34c, which once again kicked the MC to
stage 2 (lower current). This then caused voltage to drop and temp to
drop as well.
Apparently what I am seeing is the regs kicking in. When they kick in on
a battery they start dissipating heat into the copper strips and of
course the battery terminals thru the lugs. The temp sensors pick this
up and sound the alarm by raising the apparent voltage.
What is really interesting is that I am seeing the regs kick in at very
different times. Which indicates that the battery pack *is* out of
balance, and without the regs some of the batteries *are* getting
overcharged.
I should publish these results in that prestigious scientific journal:
"Duhh". Still it is very interesting. Looks like I will have to charge
at 2amps or so for awhile.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
oh, ah that is nice!
The way I understand it it is a differnet kind of animal.
They use the term pump in the ebay ad but there is no fluid at all,
there is a torque sensor and an electric motor and gear to help turn the
stearing shaft before entry into the rack.
The other electric stearing assists are part of the rack(honda)
The mr2 is electric hydraulic pump and a standard hydraulic gearbox
which gives it it's huge amperage draws at lock.
You may find me bidding against you on that one ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the pot is also proving peekay's main point.
"so, what we don't know, we doubt, question, refuse to believe,
even oppose, condemn, ridicule and object to"
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ken Trough
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 6:12 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Sources of Energy
Neon John said:
> This type of discussion is prohibited. It is not welcome here.
So is name calling, personal attacks, and hate speach but that has never
stopped you in the past.
The pot is calling the kettle black.
-Ken Trough
V is for Voltage
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Okay, so I picked up this converted EV Garden Tractor cheap.
It runs (sort of), and isn't in too bad shape.
What it needs is:
A) New batteries.
B) New throttle Pot
C) Bent motor shaft straightened
The batteries it has are Qty 4, 12V Marine. 12"x6.5"x10"tall. I can
go up to 13" tall and still fit.
I'd like to use true deep cycle/golf cart batteries, but fitting in
that form factor looks like it will be difficult.
The bent shaft, well... It's run for a long time just like it is, but
I would like to reduce the noise and vibration.
Think I can find a local motor shop to fix it? (Seattle area) Or
should I ship it down to our favorite EV Motor guy. :-)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry for the delay here, I often don't get to the list for some time.
No-one commented on the idea I posted about a simple regen for
typical series dc and zilla set up.
I am still wondering if this would work but also I have some more questions.
Here is the circuit.
B+______________________________________________
| __|__
| /_\ D1 ____
| | / \
| _______ o____|________A1__[
]__A2______B-
|__B+_| zilla |M+___S1-field--S2___o==== K1 \____/ |
|_______|________________________o_________________________________|
||
__||____
|hairball|
|________|
| |
|-----|-----------|
/\/\/\/------------/\/\/\/-
PB6 throttle PB6 brake
12V----NO----------------NC-------------------K1coil-----gnd
D1 - SD1053C18S20L $127 at digikey 1000A 1800V diode
K1 - SPDT SW201 $175 evparts (would this be lrg enough?
Intended theory of operation:
During motoring K1 is in the NC position connected to A1 and current
flows from the zilla thru the field then the armature to pack neg.
BANG! Oops, you just blew up the Zilla.
No, I'm afraid you can not run it this way, the Zilla requires the M-
connection be used for current limit. When you switched to Regen the
overload would be even worse.
If regen were easy or practical I'd be offering it.
It is possible to regen into a 72V pack without boosting the
armature, but it tends to fireball a lot and it only works at high
rpm. Not exactly practical.
The Zilla probably can run the field directly (no guarantees), motor
inductance is usually 50/50 for the field and armature, but they are
also interdependent, so if you have DC in the armature, the
inductance may be lower.
I do have a prototype current sense that can run the Zilla in normal
series regen mode
see http://cafeelectric.com/curtis/regen/index.html
which may work with low voltage systems and/or special motors, but at
this time I have not been able to dedicate the time to producing it
and writing the Hairball code to control it. The trouble is that as
soon as I release it Jim H won't be able to keep up with the fried
motors that burn up while people are "trying it out"!
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here's some from Optima:
http://www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/americas0/en/con
fig/news/logos.html
Thanks! Kind of small, but it may still be better than scanning one of
my Optima stickers.
Here's a AI Vector file of a bumper sticker for the Zilla:
http://cafeelectric.com/temp/ZillaPowered.zip
Of course it should be made in dark Green ;)
Have fun.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Absolutely true.
I think the fundamental problem as well is that, you need to have a
sensitive enough throttle control or reduce the PWM frequency lower so that
the output voltage that is connected to the stator is low and hence the
current drawn will be kept to a resonable limit.
With a low voltage applied across the field, and the tiny resistance of it,
it is easy to get large current flowing. Therefore, it is not ideal i don't
think to use the traction controllers to regen. Might be good to design your
own PWM control circuit to feed the field with current.
Cheers
From: Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Regen question again :-(
Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 20:11:02 -0700
Sorry for the delay here, I often don't get to the list for some time.
No-one commented on the idea I posted about a simple regen for typical
series dc and zilla set up.
I am still wondering if this would work but also I have some more
questions.
Here is the circuit.
B+______________________________________________
| __|__
| /_\ D1 ____
| | / \
| _______ o____|________A1__[
]__A2______B-
|__B+_| zilla |M+___S1-field--S2___o==== K1 \____/
|
|_______|________________________o_________________________________|
||
__||____
|hairball|
|________|
| |
|-----|-----------|
/\/\/\/------------/\/\/\/- PB6 throttle PB6 brake
12V----NO----------------NC-------------------K1coil-----gnd
D1 - SD1053C18S20L $127 at digikey 1000A 1800V diode
K1 - SPDT SW201 $175 evparts (would this be lrg enough?
Intended theory of operation:
During motoring K1 is in the NC position connected to A1 and current
flows from the zilla thru the field then the armature to pack neg.
BANG! Oops, you just blew up the Zilla.
No, I'm afraid you can not run it this way, the Zilla requires the M-
connection be used for current limit. When you switched to Regen the
overload would be even worse.
If regen were easy or practical I'd be offering it.
It is possible to regen into a 72V pack without boosting the armature, but
it tends to fireball a lot and it only works at high rpm. Not exactly
practical.
The Zilla probably can run the field directly (no guarantees), motor
inductance is usually 50/50 for the field and armature, but they are also
interdependent, so if you have DC in the armature, the inductance may be
lower.
I do have a prototype current sense that can run the Zilla in normal series
regen mode
see http://cafeelectric.com/curtis/regen/index.html
which may work with low voltage systems and/or special motors, but at this
time I have not been able to dedicate the time to producing it and writing
the Hairball code to control it. The trouble is that as soon as I release
it Jim H won't be able to keep up with the fried motors that burn up while
people are "trying it out"!
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
_________________________________________________________________
Send 1c txt to other Telstra Pre-Paid Plus mobiles. Join now
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fadsfac%2Enet%2Flink%2Easp%3Fcc%3DTEL185%2E19163%2E0%26clk%3D1%26creativeID%3D29997&_t=754399967&_m=EXT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 09:40:55PM -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> AGMs do emit hydrogen under normal operating conditions.
> They don't emit nearly as much as flooded batteries, but they do
> indeed emit hydrogen. The recombination process is not prefect.
>
> There are Bunsen valves on AGMs. That is why they are also
> called Valve-Regulated Lead-Acid (VRLA) batteries. These valves
> operate and vent hydrogen even if you very, very gently charge your
> AGM batteries.
>
> >>>> "Contacts Made Live" <<<<<
>
> One of the worst phrases in 625 is "contacts made live". The
> article requires that all contacts on the plug be covered when it is
> removed from the receptacle, if they ever had voltage of any sort.
> This makes the connector very expensive needlessly. Even if the
> contacts are dead before the connector comes apart, they must be
> covered after it is apart. Even if the contacts carry very low
> voltage signals, they must be covered.
>
> This is the difference between "live contacts" and "contacts
> made live".
What if your "contacts made live" fail live?
Bad day to have exposed contacts.
>
> It is also very stupid to require a locking connector on a
> vehicle that might roll away.
Do you really require a locking connector?
Magnicharge does not lock.
> If the car rolls away, is towed away,
> is hit by another car, or somehow drives away while plugged in,
> sparks are going to fly. When the cord breaks or the charger is
> ripped off the wall, bare live conductors will be left dangling.
The cord unit non-destructively pulls out of an AVcon head. The first
thing to pull loose is the interlock signal, thus killing the power.
Seems pretty good and well though out.
> The connector should be required to be NON-LOCKING instead so that
> nothing bad happens if the vehicle moves while plugged in.
Yea, we need to consider the pros and cons of locking vs non-locking.
You bring up a good point for the non-locking side.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 07:13:13PM -0400, Neon John wrote:
>
> This type of discussion is prohibited. It is not welcome here.
Wow!
Says Neon John.
Just... Wow.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Zilla Owners,
I have just discovered a little anomaly with the pot Box I am using
attached to my Z1K setup. I replaced the pot in the potbox and measured
the resistance before reinstalling it in the car. It went from a couple
OHMs to a little over 5K. This is just what the Zilla spec calls for.
The throttle had about the same maximum power response as before but I
needed to depress the throttle about 30% to get the car to move. I
checked the Throttle cable and there was no slack , when I manually
moved the potbox lever I needed to move it about 30% of its travel to
get the motor to start moving. So I adjusted the pot lever on the shaft
to make up for the lagging response. The Pot now goes from about 1K to
almost 8K ohms. This should have caused an error from the Hairball
because the resistance is too high. The Hairball didn't complain and the
result was (Holy bat droppings Robin) the car accelerates way better
than it ever has. I have been only using about 2/3 throttle for the past
year and didn't know it.
This may be worth checking for those of you that are using the Curtis
style potbox with a Zilla.
Thanks for the heads up Pat.
The new Zillas do allow well over 5K before tripping an error.
You can check that you are getting full throttle by watching the
first value in DAQ 4 with the key off.
Pot input values for 5K input:
These are also valid for the first value when using the HEPA.
Low pot, 0x47
High pot lockout, 0xF6
Drive start 0x61
Full throttle 0x9F.
So, if you are getting less than 9F at full throttle, it needs to be higher.
Pat, yours should hit 9F at about 4.7K ohms. It's possible that there
is a problem with the Hairball that is making the scaling incorrect.
If that is the case I would like to know about it and will gladly fix
it for no charge.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Is that 200 battery amps or 200 motor amps?
That was 200 battery amps. But I was in third gear at or around 65 mph.
mm.
> If you have a heavy vehicle and/or are in too high of a gear, the motor
> amps could be very high while the battery amps look reasonable.
>
>
> Michaela Merz wrote:
>> The other day, I was happily cruising around with my truck at around
>> 200A
>> when my controller signaled 'over heating' and sent me to the
>> right-of-way. Now: I have an DCP-1200 Raptor and it should be able to
>> manage > 200A continously. After a short break, the LED was cleared,
>> power
>> restored and I went on driving keeping current at 150A.
>>
>> It was hot that day but I was going around 65 (= plenty of air pushing
>> into the engine compartment) and the controllers fan was working
>> perfectly.
>>
>> Question: Could that behaviour be considered to be 'normal'? And how
>> would
>> I be able to improve the situation?
>>
>> Michaela
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak's
> 1997 Solectria Force
> 1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
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I connect the charger, set it at 15 amps, it runs for about ten
minutes and blows the DC fuse. K&W BC20 on a 108 volt pack. The
batteries are new and I am not aware of any change to have cause the
fuse to blow. It worked and then suddenly didn't. I have gone
through 4 or 5 fuses and still can't see anything out of the ordinary.
Help,
Calvin
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http://www.pentadyne.com/flywheel.htm
this is the same company in which the ceo of teslamotors
worked .. they are selling the EMB's already
it is amazing in its flexibility .. and the best part i like on the
above webpage is this :
".... can be used where batteries have been ruled out. "
..peekay
(it is now only a small step to make a unit of TWO such
highspeed fly-cylinders to cancel out each others gyro effect
and use this in trains .. then in large buses .. trucks .. articulated
trailers .. Vans .. then cars .. smaller cars .. three wheeled cars ..
THEN in the TWO wheeled cars .. with segway balance controls
built in .. and finally in that ONE wheeled 'car' .. or PT (personal
transporter)
(ALL these models are real world models .. made by engineers from
mercedes, porche, bmw, ge/gm, and others too)
___________________________________________________________
24 FIFA World Cup tickets to be won with Yahoo! Mail http://uk.mail.yahoo.com
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It's not for me, someone asked me if this unit will work,
in an EV (easily), but I still have no idea.
so, I'm not bidding, you can have it ;-)
Victor
Jeff Shanab wrote:
oh, ah that is nice!
The way I understand it it is a differnet kind of animal.
They use the term pump in the ebay ad but there is no fluid at all,
there is a torque sensor and an electric motor and gear to help turn the
stearing shaft before entry into the rack.
The other electric stearing assists are part of the rack(honda)
The mr2 is electric hydraulic pump and a standard hydraulic gearbox
which gives it it's huge amperage draws at lock.
You may find me bidding against you on that one ;-)
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it would be nice if our friend from teslamotors tells us a bit
more about this :
"It can also be used to absorb regenerative braking power ...."
as appearing on this webpage :
http://www.pentadyne.com/asd.htm
the sooner this type of battery is available for EV's the better
it will be
like the push trailer for EV's .. this kind of attach/detach
battery could become the norm of tomorrow
instead of gas stations for refils, we would just drive into
EMB stations for a swap .. with payment of course ! ;-)
hope this happens soon ....
anyone wanting to partner with like minded guys to run
and EMB swapping service chain store .. across the globe ;-))
..peekay
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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The batteries it has are Qty 4, 12V Marine. 12"x6.5"x10"tall. I can go up
to 13" tall and still fit.
I'd like to use true deep cycle/golf cart batteries, but fitting in that
form factor looks like it will be difficult.
Why not use some of your BB600s? Did you use them all in the Sparrow?
damon
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sadly the EV is not mentioned as a market by pentadyne :
http://www.pentadyne.com/markets.htm
or maybe teslaMotors will do the EV segment ?
..peekay
(other areas look quite stable .. and like all new techs..
pentadyne seems to lock into 'premium' markets for ..
now .. remember the one floppy pc commanded a
premium price .. once upon a time .. and now no one
even wants one of those silly pc's !)
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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I'm surprised you're not blowing your breaker.
Because of "harmonics" on the AC line, I could never
pack more than 7.2 amps (as observed on the E-meter)
RMS into my pack.
The only other thing I can think of, is that my K&W
circuit board had issues after battery acid vapor
attacked a couple of traces on the circuit board. I
always think of fuses as being before the transformer,
as to save them. In this case, it's _after_ the
transformer.
--- Calvin King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I connect the charger, set it at 15 amps, it runs
> for about ten
> minutes and blows the DC fuse. K&W BC20 on a 108
> volt pack. The
> batteries are new and I am not aware of any change
> to have cause the
> fuse to blow. It worked and then suddenly didn't.
> I have gone
> through 4 or 5 fuses and still can't see anything
> out of the ordinary.
> Help,
> Calvin
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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i am really stunned by the massive accelertion possible in
the micro width TANGO .. based on a high power high torque
dc motor driving the rear wheels .. power comes from the
battery
the acceleration is enormouse
but .. and this is a prophesy (just kiddin') :
EV's using pentadyne type of EMB's will be capable of
accelerations which will make the Tango look like a
kid playing with roller skates and wanting to 'go' like
the feraris !
..peekay
(i sure don't see no posts commenting on the TANGO ..
the 'commercial' EV of the personal transporting type
which is already being launched for sale in usa and canada ..
neither ain't there no comments on the 'indian' REVA ..
which is the only leading normal sized mini car in the lower
range .. with modest acceleration, nominal range .. yet
good enough for more than 90% car users .. we don't really
commute all that much .. we may want to .. but usually
land up not doing it)
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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I got them from ev sourse and what a deal , they are made by Rich Rudmen ,
they do have fans on them .
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: RE: converting a gas mower to electric
Steve, your picture mowbatmoni shows what looks like battery monitors,
what
/ where etc did you come up with these? The look pretty heavy duty.
Pedroman
That's a hell of a lawnmower!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of steve clunn
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 9:01 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: converting a gas mower to electric
.Hi Mike I may be the most satisfied Ev mower owner on the list , I use
mine for my lawn business somthing cutting more that 10 yards a day with
it.
you can see my mower 1/2 down the page at
http://www.grassrootsev.com/projects.htm
I've cut lawns so thin that no gas mower could tuch them. But as I have a
8"
net gain motor and 120v 400 amp crutis con troller ( yes this would run a
car :-) and am running 96v , 8 orbitals,
You could buy one used; or look at one to get ideas for doing your
own conversion.
That's the recommendation I'm getting frequently. There are a couple
within an hours drive from here that I may look at. I like tinkering
though, so I find it more appealing to convert my gas mower to electric -
especially if I could do it for roughly the same cost as buying a 30 year
old electric tractor and bringing it back to working condition.
I think your right here , restoring can be costly , finding the right
parts
ect , where the mower you showed is commen , the elec trak is a little
like
the ev 1 , a great mower but not common .
I'd like
to get a rough idea of how much it might cost me to do the
gas-electric
conversion to compare to the cost of buying one of those old Elec-Traks
(another drawback as I see it for the elec-traks is that most have a
front
mount mower deck rather than under the belly, which would make it more
difficult to fit into our garage).
yep ,
The garden tractor style of riding lawm mower is the best start. Cheap
riding mowers are too flimsily built, and can't carry enough batteries
to bother with.
The mower you have would do fine , don't get to hung up on loading it down
with batteies , as a home owner , you could mow for 15 minites then charge
and do other stuff , mow , charge , mow charge .
The one I have is the same as this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7761400583&category
=50377&fkxs=1
It's a 14.5 hp tractor with a 42" deck. It seems very sturdy, and should
have room for at least 4 12V batteries (or possibly 6 6v or 8v)
batteries.
I'm wondering if it would be better to salvage a motor, controller, etc.
from an old electric golf cart, or find new/used ones. Hell, I could
probably make my own controller I suppose....
yes a golf cart motor would work, if you can fine one with a shaft instead
of a hole, and the old coil of wire controller the used is also good , I
went with the orbitals , cus my discharge is less that an hour, and I
needed the voltage to be hi so as to be close to my EV trucks voltage for
dump charging ,
A friend and I converted his old Wheel Horse garden tractor to
electric. It was a pretty simple process. We replaced the dead 8hp gas
engine with a 1.5hp 24v electric motor, and a separate 24v 3/4hp motor
for the mower deck. We initially used two 12v deep-cycle batteries,
but mowing time was too short (20 minutes). We replaced these to four
6v golf cart
Does it have a manual or hydrostatic tranny? This gas mower has a
hydrostatic (automatic) tranny. I'm not at all familiar with those, so
I'm
not sure how the motor will attach to it.
I have the hydrostatic tranny's also , I'd go with one bigger motor and
put
it right where the gas was , .
As Rod Hower told me when I was on the fence , Go for it , , and I did
:-)
I don't know what was more fun , seeing Bob Rice smoke the tires on my
race
truck or mowing the lawn with my ev mower ,
steve clunn
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From:
<http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:v487wSqjwEUJ:www.i-car.com/
html_pages/about_icar/current_events_news/advantage/
advantage_online_archives/2002/
061702.html+saturn+vue+power+steering+pump&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1>
because the original link didn't work.
"The system uses a column-mounted motor/control system. There are three
parts that make up the Electric Power Steering (EPS) system: the motor,
the EPS control module, and the torque sensor. All these are contained
in one assembly (see Figure 1). The assembly is mounted under the
instrument panel, below the upper steering column. The motor is mounted
on the side and drives the column through a reduction and worm gear.
"The torque sensor has two rings that are fed alternating current. The
upper and lower steering column, referred to as the input and output
shafts, are connected by a torsion bar, much like the spool valve in
hydraulic power steering systems. The magnetic detection rings sense
any twist between the input and output shafts and send a signal to the
EPS control module. The control module uses several signals to compute
the needed assist: vehicle speed, temperature, and driver torque."
So, basically its an electric power steering assembly. It mounts under
the dash of the Saturn Vue. One end connects to the upper steering
column, the other end to the lower part goes to the manual steering
box. It seems pretty self contained, but would require steering column
modification and a "fast" (hard) manual steering box to be very useful.
In addition, a speed signal that is compatible would be required, some
what of a pain potentially, but also a way to adjust the assist to some
extend by providing a "false" signal.
Paul G.
On May 4, 2006, at 3:14 PM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Can someone tell please what exactly this unit does?
Is it functionally similar to MR2 unit?
http://tinyurl.com/mjqhm
Thanks,
Victor
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>From: "Mark Grasser"
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Subject: Re: Gun Engine?
>Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 17:52:57 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> format=flowed;
> charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>I belong to more then one e-mail group. The others have come to the
>understanding that if they don't like the topic they can always just hit
the
>delete key. Why is this list so narow min,,,, er, focused? I like to think
>that anything that comes to the list might be of interest, then when I've
>had enough I simply pass over the subject checking back every few days due
>to matter change with the same title.
>So what's the big deal?
Maybe because many of us are on more than one list and we recieve this one
in digest mode.
That means we have to scroll through it again and again and again ad
infinauseum. We can't "just hit the delete key" or we will miss something
that might be remotely related to EV's... that's what we signed up for
this list for. Not to discuss over-unity, politics, world oil supply or
internal combustion engines.
It's annoying enough that people don't have enough common courtesy to cut
and paste when they respond with a "me too" to the second third or fourth
time they reply to one of these diuretic posts.
This is called the Electric Vehicle Discussion List for a reason. I'll
second Neon John's request... take this @#!*$ somewhere else.
Jim
'93 Dodge TEVan
"88 Fiero ESE
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