EV Digest 5458
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) [OT] "peekay"
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Sources of Energy
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Low Rolling Resistance Tires Idea, Request for Feedback
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) [OT] a request ..
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Low Rolling Resistance Tires Idea, Request for Feedback
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) DC-DC converters
by John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Low Rolling Resistance Tires Idea, Request for Feedback
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Sources of Energy
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Sources of irritation, was Re: Sources of Energy
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: tax laws
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Electric car at local festival
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Solectria Force for sale
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Low Rolling Resistance Tires Idea, Request for Feedback
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Suitable Range Extending Alternator for Trailer Power Supply
by "David Sharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Low Rolling Resistance Tires Idea, Request for Feedback
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: DC-DC converters
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Solectria Force on eBay
by Carlton Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Use your Prius as a UPS for the house, or as construction site power.
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Safe charging (Was Art. 625 etc.)
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Asking questions on EVDL a sin?
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Ground fault finally fixed - Charger still works!
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Ground fault finally fixed - Charger still works!
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: 12v Battery Advise Needed
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Use your Prius as a UPS for the house, or as construction site
power.
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Wrightspeed article on CNN
by "Peri Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Ground fault finally fixed - Charger still works!
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
by Matt Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Does 220mpg violate the laws of physics?
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
looks like this is getting personal .. for once, let me assume that you
are right joseph .. i have NOT 'contributed' .. and the 'important ideas
and thoughts' of other stalwarts here are 'contributions'
will that close this sad thread please ?
i have seen EMB's discussed thread bare in the past few weeks .. and
i also think that they will not be seen in cars soon .. and despite TWO
companies implementing them in buses .. those buses are not EV's !!
so EMB's are NOT to be discussed !!!
for the records :
1) as directed by stalwarts here, i DID research
the archives .. the 36,000+ emails .. to turn up only THREE emails
which 'discussed' .. two were from the same person !
so much for the 'proper' way to ask questions
2) it would have been much nicer for the stalwarts
here to have answered in just one line about 'those discussions'
since they already knew about it .. which i didn't !
all this bitterness would not have happened
3) i guess it is not the emb's that caused the severe bitterness ..
it was the "go get 'em" approach to "peekay" .. sad !
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 7p a photo
http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 7 May 2006 14:03:28 -0700, "Joseph H. Strubhar"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Com'on Ken - knock it off!! Neon John has made some rather blunt statements,
>but he has important ideas and thoughts to contribute to this list; "peekay"
>hasn't contributed anything of merit to date - have you?
Joe, the only thing you can do with Ken and I'm afraid, Peekay is to
ignore them. If you're like me and have a hard time ignoring rank
stupidity (the shoe fits Ken; I'm not sure about Peekay yet), put him
or them in your filter file and make them disappear from the face of
the net.
I almost didn't write this because in some small way it acknowledges
that Ken is still consuming oxygen but I finally decided to share my
experience in that area, as I made the mistake long ago on another
list of trying to engage him in debate. I quickly learned that he
thrives on controversy and that he's the master of the "back-channel
back-stab" (probably the only thing he's ever mastered) Civility was
futile.
I enjoyed seeing some of his activity when some people whom HE thought
were my enemies [1] sent me some of his "back channel" messages for my
entertainment. Well, entertainment in the same sense as standing in
front of the monkey cages at the zoo. I bet you'll be his target of
the day now :-)
[1] Mature people don't have to become enemies to have a vigorous
debate and to vigorously disagree on something.
The best thing to do is to use your email filter and give him the
virtual death sentence. It'll make the list.experience much more
pleasant. A decent filter mechanism such as the one in Agent (my
choice for the moment) can filter both originator and word/names in
the body. Hmmm, I'm not sure why your message wasn't filtered since I
have "Trough" in the body filter. Maybe I screwed up the last update.
For less offensive people and threads that just won't die, Agent has
the ability to put someone or something on suspension - the filter has
an expiry. I usually put obnoxious or flame-prone people in a 30 day
filter. If things haven't changed then next time I make it permanent.
For that matter, I highly recommend that anyone who doesn't like me
put my address in his filter! Heck, if someone doesn't know how, drop
me a note and I'll even help ya! I know most of the mail agents out
there except for Microsloth stuff.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aren't they limited to 50 MPH and 50 miles travel?
David C Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"The Bush administration's priorities are
"a little bit different now and veterans aren't a priority,"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 5:47 PM
Subject: Low Rolling Resistance Tires Idea, Request for Feedback
Here's a 'crazy' idea:
Use a set of 'doughnut' spare tires instead of standard tires.
My Solectria Force currently has Dunlop SP40 A/S, P155/80 R13 tires and
the spare is a T115/70D14. By my math, the tire width is 26% smaller with
the spare than with the existing tires. Rolling resistance should
approximately be directly proportional to tire width, so I would see a 26%
gain in rolling resistance.
Max load is over 1000 lbs each, and the car is 2470 lbs total. Tire
pressure is rated at 60PSI Max on the spare tire instead of 35PSI on the
standards.
How's this sound?
Thanks,
Todd
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Com'on Ken ..
> "peekay" hasn't contributed anything of merit to date - have you?
let me accept that "peekay hasn't contributed" ..
(what do i need to do to appear to be 'contributing' ?)
but that don't mean asking : "have you?" .. and turn upon Ken too !
may i request a cease fire ..
against Ken and others who are just asking restraining of :
> > personally attacked, name called, and with people advocating actual
> > physical violence on environmentalists
irrespective of the policy, charter, etc .. being voilent,
personal, racist is a definite no-no !!
(i will not be posting here for a looong looong time !)
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 7 May 2006 18:27:09 -0700, "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Aren't they limited to 50 MPH and 50 miles travel?
Perhaps for the full sized car it came from. But compact spares are
quite popular for CitiCar owners. Usually free plus with the high air
pressure, they have fairly low rolling resistance.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am looking at various approaches taken to the DC accessory power for
EV's - looks like they have been:
- separate 12v battery for accessories
- tap a battery in the pack
- 12v battery with a DC-DC converter to charge the separate battery
- DC-DC converter only
The first 2 are not good approaches, and people have had bad
experiences.
My Samurai has a 30A alternator, so it seems that it wouldn't need much
to replace that for DC-DC (except Samurai drivers will replace them with
80 or 110 A units so the headlights don't dim at idle...)
So how to get even 30A? I see some 25A Sevcons. I have seen some EVs
in the album with Todd DC-DC, or DC Power Systems - are these still
available? I saw one with an IOTA DLS 220-55, which is 55A, but
according to the specs is an AC-DC converter designed from 220v AC - how
does that work?
Would this one work with an EV?
http://www.trcelectronics.com/Meanwell/sd-350d-12.shtml
It is 350W - close to 30A.
Can they be doubled up?
How are they wired in? Across the whole pack voltage?
John F. Norton
via T-Mobile Sidekick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 7, 2006, at 6:36 PM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
If you want a narrow tire, check out the old VW bug tire size. P165R15
(it's metric, hence no aspect ratio(E.g. 50 or 60 or 70,
etc)).
This car has them on the front using 3.5" wide front wheels:
Of course you could just go for the Citron 2CV tire at that point. They
are pretty available in the USA because the aircooled VW crowd prefers
them on the front of their 'Cal Look' Bugs. I have a pair on the front
of my EV Buggy.
<http://paul-g.home.comcast.net/FrameRbug/FrontRight.html>
Its a P135R15 tire. Only 23.5 inches tall and less than 4 inches of
rubber across the road. You should not install it on a wheel more than
5 inches wide! (at least not without a tube)
I'm not sure that its the best LLR idea. It seems that most of the
factory EV and Hybrid tires are much lower profile - "65" seems common
instead of the 80% profile of these types of tires.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
Mature people don't have to become enemies to have a vigorous debate
and to vigorously disagree on something.
Too bad Neon doesn't follow his own advice. He often cannot have a
vigorous debate without name calling, and personal attacks. Racism and
hate speech are also facets of his "debate style".
I don't launch back channel smear campains. I address issues head on.
Anyone who knows me, knows this.
I'm all for vigorous debate as I have demonstrated here and many places
elsewhere. I just believe debate and spirited discussion can be
accomplished with civility and common courtesy as well.
I think it is unfortunate that apparently some feel newbies need to earn
the right to post here. I thought it was our goal to welcome new people
into this community. I didn't think we discouraged them to the point
that they quit posting. Guess I was wrong.
-Ken Trough
V is for Voltage
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I enjoyed seeing some of his activity when some people whom HE thought
> were my enemies [1] sent me some of his "back channel" messages for my
> entertainment. Well, entertainment in the same sense as standing in
> front of the monkey cages at the zoo. I bet you'll be his target of
> the day now :-)
>
Yeah, great way to get covered in feces.
I've had the opposite experience - he thought I had contacted *him*
back-channel about a logic-defying "invention" (I always do such
things publicly!), then filtered me when *I* denied it back-channel.
The list has all kinds of opinions, even one that petroleum can be
created in a few thousand years (how else *could* a Creationist
explain it?), but it's best to reread your posts before you hit send
and ask yourself if it is appropriate for this forum.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If your friend on the committee hasn't already done so, I'd strongly
encourage him/her to contact Tesla motors; I'm sure they'd have a lot to say
about how hard it is to actually produce new vehicles. (You don't need to
ask me for it, just combine the names at
http://www.teslamotors.com/company_people.html with the phone numbers at
http://www.teslamotors.com/contact.html and you can get all the info you
need.) Reducing the red tape for new vehicles - particularly the FMVSS
(Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard) would benefit a lot of would-be car
makers, who dread the loss of 10-20 cars for crash testing, and requirements
so voluminous that (according to AC Propulsion 4 years ago when I asked
them) that just the spec on headlights is hundreds of pages long. Perhaps
these are appropriate for car models that sell in quanitities of 10 million
per year, but they make small manufacturers give up completely. Of course,
you can get around these limitations by only doing conversions, or selling
your new car as a "kit car" (which is what commutercars.com is doing - also
a good company to contact about red tape), but if you go that route, the
burdensome red tape transfers from the builder to the buyer. (Thankfully,
at least EVs don't need to deal with recurring emissions tests!)
[If you couldn't tell by now, my personal politics are that the lack of EVs
are a problem that government helped create through well-intentioned yet
burdensome legislation. I think the government could help most by getting
out of the way more. And they could save money by not giving tax credits to
oil companies. Do these things and you'd help EVs *and* help the deplorable
budget situation!]
If you absolutely must attack this through tax law change, the most
immediate and obvious remedy comes from
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_afv.shtml which says:
Qualifying electric vehicles purchased new are eligible for a credit of 10%
of the vehicle cost, up to $4,000 per vehicle. The credit will be reduced to
$1,000 in 2006 and will expire at the end of the year.
This is expiring exactly at the wrong time. President Bush has repeatedly
called for extending or making permanent his tax cuts; this is a good way to
take him up on the idea: renew that $4,000 credit! (This incentive also
covers fuel-cell vehicles; let's siphon some of the energy from that mania
to technology we all know works!)
Sharon, please feel free to follow up with me privately if there is any way
you think I can help. (I've not had a very good conversion experience
myself, and I believe the long-term mass-market EV interest will be for new
EVs, not conversions, so I'm not all that excited about that...)
jorg
On 5/6/06, Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Guys. we have been trying to change the Fed tax laws, so far were
makeing progress. I am in Contact with the head of the Senate finance
committee to change Tax laws, the head of the committee and me and my
husband have been on the phone and e-mails for 2 weeks so far, and as of now
it looks good, Were trying to change the "law" that would give all the
conversions cost BACK, meaning build if for X amount of dollars ands you get
that much back in the form of a income tax return check.So if you look at
the Fed income tax pages you'll see they wont give any thing back for a
conversion,,,but for a NEW built ,they will. This what were trying to
change.
What we need is for any of you to Contact us by E-mail and help.
They need any people that are building them as NEW..or converting them. With
this Info I can sent that to washington. so the laws can be changed. Me and
my husband are still building them in Ks. they have a 40% tax credit. More
needs to be done. if you want to help us, Please do, Thnaks Sharon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As long as they don't think you are one of the fruits or nuts. Try to get
the VW as clean as possible. Tidy up the connections. Try to get the back
seat in if possible. Did you put a couple of batteries in the tray in the
front? Get your facts stright like how much energy/cost per mile you get.
How hard it was to do the revamp. How much it cost. That's what people are
interested in. Gas is now 3.50 in Northern California. Electric is looking
awful good. LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill & Nancy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 1:58 PM
Subject: Electric car at local festival
I was asked if I would bring my ev to a fruit and nut festival in the area.
The car is a 56 vw beetle conversion running at 72 volts. It's a work in
progress, with the back end full of batteries, not clamped down or covered.
The paint is rough but not out of line for a 50 year old car. Any
suggestions or opinions?
Thanks,
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A friend of mine (and owner of cool electric 7 - http://electric7.com/ )
sells his Force and asked to provide the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4638308645&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3ALCA%3AUS%3A31
Good luck bidding,
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually I think it really has more to do with the stiffness and construction
of the tire sidewall than the width. The less it deforms where it touches the
road the lower the rolling resistance will be. Also more tire pressure will
help the tire better hold it's round shape. There were some Insight owners who
once attempted putting some doughnuts on an Insight at a gathering (I think it
was Rick Recee the hypermiler) and it resulted in less mpg. He also tried some
standard 155 width tires vs the 165 stock tires and again mpg went down.
Besides, the doughnut tires are not ment for continual use, and usually at
50mph max. Unfortunately we don't have any numbers to work with, but if you
look at the Greenseal list the Bridgestone B381 is the lowest rolling
resistance on the list and it is a 185 width tire.
Todd Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Here's a 'crazy' idea:
Use a set of 'doughnut' spare tires instead of standard tires.
My Solectria Force currently has Dunlop SP40 A/S, P155/80 R13 tires and the
spare is a T115/70D14. By my math, the tire width is 26% smaller with the spare
than with the existing tires. Rolling resistance should approximately be
directly proportional to tire width, so I would see a 26% gain in rolling
resistance.
Max load is over 1000 lbs each, and the car is 2470 lbs total. Tire pressure is
rated at 60PSI Max on the spare tire instead of 35PSI on the standards.
How's this sound?
Thanks,
Todd
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Id thought about the IG idea for the trailer as I have a 4 cylinder side
valve Morris engine driving an ABB IM run as an IG for my house backup
battery charger. It was originally a star connected 415V unit but is now
delta connected and excited with 160uF capacitors per phase and runs at
1200RPM. It has a 6 diode "block" rectifier. You might like a little
practical feedback from someone who uses one of these concepts:
If the CEIG looses its load enormous voltages are produced-it behaves a
little like a current source or ferro-resonant battery charger and can
damage any electronics that has the misfortune to be still connected. My
nominal 275V battery system has a 10kW inverter with 4 off 500V "giant"
bi-polar Darlington transistors rated at 200A that have gone short C-E with
the evil CEIG after an open circuit in a battery. Another thing that happens
is the magnetics sometimes loses its residual and will not then build up for
any amount of revving or cussing requiring application of a 12V battery to
the windings to get some "starting point" flux. I hope that a PM alternator
might be lighter. Id rather not a CEIG if possible. Abbrevs:IM induction
motor. IG induction generator. CEIG capacitor excited induction generator.
David Sharpe Daihatsu 9" 144V
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Monday, 8 May 2006 9:53 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Suitable Range Extending Alternator for Trailer Power Supply
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Wouldn't it also be a generator at 2850 rpm, but at a lower
> frequency? Since he only needs DC, the frequency doesn't matter
> (much) so he can turn it at just about any speed.
A given induction motor works as an induction generator at any speed.
However, its volts/frequency ratio is a fixed number. If its nameplate
is 120vac 60hz 3450 rpm 10hp, then it runs equally well at 100vac 50hz
2850 rpm 8hp.
As you say, the frequency doesn't really matter if you're just going to
rectify it anyway. But the desired voltage still determines the speed
you have to spin it at.
> I guess the capacitor values might change though...
If it runs as a motor with a lagging power factor of 0.8, then you need
enough capacitance to make it see a *leading* power factor of 0.8 to
work as an induction generator. The amount of capacitance this takes
depends on the frequency and load current.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check the 'donut' and see how much profile it has, then
you will be able to judge if it is a solution for you.
Most donuts come new with the minimum legal thread depth,
because they are not expected to wear.
They also look like motorcycle tires, entirely round,
iso having a flat surface, which probably helps in
maximizing the pressure in such a thin tire.
Handling may suffer from using such tires, because they are
not designed nor tested for that, as far as I know.
Googling around for spare tire I found ones that need no air:
http://www.michelinman.com/difference/releases/pressrelease01102005a.html
They plan to use them instead of all 4 tires, so the spare will go.
The name Michelin uses for this 'Tweel' is a contraction of
'Tire' and 'Wheel'.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 8:06 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Low Rolling Resistance Tires Idea, Request for Feedback
On Sun, 7 May 2006 18:27:09 -0700, "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Aren't they limited to 50 MPH and 50 miles travel?
Perhaps for the full sized car it came from. But compact spares are
quite popular for CitiCar owners. Usually free plus with the high air
pressure, they have fairly low rolling resistance.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Yes, that one should work IF you can crank the output
voltage up to your battery voltage (13.8 .. 14.5V)
Doubling may work, depending how close they are in output
voltage and current sharing capabilities.
If you find an AC/DC converter that does not have a transformer
(typical the multi-voltage units) then you can simply feed
the AC side with DC, only using 2 of the bridge diodes.
Since a 110 AC unit expects a rectified voltage around 130 - 180V
that is the DC pack voltage range that you can run such a unit
from, though often it will work a bit outside that range, but
typically a 120V DC pack works well.
An AC/DC converter that allows 100 - 250V AC input (often with
+6% and -10% tolerance or 90 - 265V AC) will work from 130V all
the way through 375V DC, which means that up to a 300V pack can
be connected safely, higher voltages better disconnect the AC/DC
converter during charging, although opening the AC/DC converter
will often reveal that the capacitor after the bridge will take
more than 400V DC so up to that voltage the thing will work.
And yes - you better wire all loads across the entire pack
or you will create unbalances in the pack.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of John Norton
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 7:40 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: DC-DC converters
I am looking at various approaches taken to the DC accessory power for
EV's - looks like they have been:
- separate 12v battery for accessories
- tap a battery in the pack
- 12v battery with a DC-DC converter to charge the separate battery
- DC-DC converter only
The first 2 are not good approaches, and people have had bad
experiences.
My Samurai has a 30A alternator, so it seems that it wouldn't need much
to replace that for DC-DC (except Samurai drivers will replace them with
80 or 110 A units so the headlights don't dim at idle...)
So how to get even 30A? I see some 25A Sevcons. I have seen some EVs
in the album with Todd DC-DC, or DC Power Systems - are these still
available? I saw one with an IOTA DLS 220-55, which is 55A, but
according to the specs is an AC-DC converter designed from 220v AC - how
does that work?
Would this one work with an EV?
http://www.trcelectronics.com/Meanwell/sd-350d-12.shtml
It is 350W - close to 30A.
Can they be doubled up?
How are they wired in? Across the whole pack voltage?
John F. Norton
via T-Mobile Sidekick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It should show up now by searching for "Solectria." I guess it takes
a few hours for the search feature to kick in, and it is working this
morning.
Regards,
Carl
From: "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: May 7, 2006 10:02:28 PM GMT-04:00
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Solectria Force on eBay
I get 0 results for a search on solectria on the bay mike y
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--- Begin Message ---
Want to use your car to power your house when the grid goes down?
Need to run tools away from the grid?
Let me introduce you to the web site
http://PriUPS.com
The Toyota Prius.
Gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles can serve as a
UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) for your house.
The Prius, unlike the generator, also has a battery that provides
instant, UPS-like power, to your house. Careful research has shown
that most* people would prefer not to go outside to manually pull a
cord in the case of a power failure. The same independent research
foundation,** using accepted methods of sampling and polling***,
determined that most* people would prefer not to spend money on a big,
expensive generator, even if they don't have to pull on the cord.
Details at:
http://PriUPS.com/sitenav.htm
--
Mike Bianchi
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On 5/6/06, Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Sat, 6 May 2006 13:35:45 +0100, "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>A question: apart from the hydrogen, are "battery fumes" from flooded
>lead-acid batteries considered safe to breathe in general? Nothing
>even slightly toxic or irritant in them? Even in the case of an
>equalising charge or thermal run-away?
>They can certainly make an unpleasant smell, and I know from
>experience what the fumes do to exposed metalwork in the vicinity.
>So, when I'm doing renewable energy installations I always follow the
>recommendation to vent the batteries to the outside.
Probably not like a spring breeze but a whiff isn't going to put you
down either. I've never seen any evidence that the mist contains
anything other than sulfuric acid mist and hydrogen sulfide. Back in
the Good Old Days (TM) over in nearby Copper Hill, men spent their
lives breathing acid fumes while working in the sulfuric acid plant
located atop the copper mine. None of 'em set any records for
longevity but they didn't drop over dead at the first whiff either.
I figure that this is one of those things where the unpleasant odor
gives more than enough warning to breathe elsewhere.
Thanks. So, it doesn't seem like an bad idea to have some ventilation
in enclosed parking/charging areas. Even if it's just for the sake of
reducing the sulphur smell.
The NEC specification may be over the top but the idea seems reasonable enough.
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Hi everyone,
I try to avoid controversy, but feel like someone should say something
about this.
In my opinion, asking questions is *vitally* important to the vitality
of the EVDL. If the question might seem somewhat off topic from a
purist EV point of view, better to ask anyways. Let the list
administrators extinguish anything too OT.
I think that several of the recent questions that have been attacked
(e.g. EMBs) were very good questions and certainly relevant to EVS -
things I've pondered in the past. It's very easy to hit the delete
button if a topic doesn't interest you. I don't understand why some
people have to be so quick to call someone off topic. It's like a bunch
of kid waiting to go tattle to mommy.
For those that have felt offended and "won't be posting here for a long
time", don't let those really deserving the weenie-awards get their way
that easy :) Keep posting!
-Ryan
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I start pulling out the wires between the onboard charger and the inlet in the
gas cap giving up on the idea that I'd find the fault after months of trying on
and off. Hiding in a section of frame tunnel I find a seriously melted anderson
where you can't see it but where water and road grime can get to it and sit. I
took a few pictures here of the connector after I cleaned up and the goo.
http://tinyurl.com/etkfc
At first I thought I saw it before when I looked it over but I have no record
of it and don't see how I would have seen it buried in there. I replaced it
with some weatherproof permanent connectors between just the pairs of wires I
still need since there is no need for a disconnect of anykind at that point or
for that third set of wires to be connected anymore since I don't have an
offboard charger.
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Amazing. Good find. What kind of voltage and current was going thru
that connector?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I start pulling out the wires between the onboard charger and the
inlet in the gas cap giving up on the idea that I'd find the fault
after months of trying on and off. Hiding in a section of frame tunnel
I find a seriously melted anderson where you can't see it but where
water and road grime can get to it and sit. I took a few pictures here
of the connector after I cleaned up and the goo.
> http://tinyurl.com/etkfc
> At first I thought I saw it before when I looked it over but I
have no record of it and don't see how I would have seen it buried in
there. I replaced it with some weatherproof permanent connectors
between just the pairs of wires I still need since there is no need
for a disconnect of anykind at that point or for that third set of
wires to be connected anymore since I don't have an offboard charger.
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Wayne,
Not sure if this fits your needs, but I can share my experience.
I have now 2500 miles on my truck using 26 110Ah 12V batteries
which cost me $2200 so this should be well within your budget,
even when you would run a double string of them.
I have a single string of 312V (AC drive) and I sure like the
60 miles range that this offers (when driving carefully).
Weight of the battery is 71 lbs, so 10 will be 710 lbs which
means that less than 30% of the vehicle weight is battery.
Dependent on your skill and circumstances to drive carefully
your electricity consumption will be somewhere between 200 and 250
Wh per mile for a 'sedan' conversion.
With 120V and 250Wh per mile, your range would be around 30 miles
max in warm weather (60Ah available from the 110 Ah at 20h) so
the single string of 10 batteries it not sufficient.
Either find larger batteries or make a double string of them or
increase the battery voltage to get more energy stored.
Double strings will certainly give you enough range if you can keep
them well balanced, it should fit your budget but the weight of
1420 lbs may be way over the limit as you have more than 40% of
the car weight in batteries. See if your car has been modified by
others with heavier (aftermarket) or high performance parts, that
could give you a clue if this route is even feasible.
One example is the BMW 3-series has always had an "M" variant, which
means that the little car is a little over-designed to take the
extra loads that the M-performance puts on the chassis.
That makes me confident that this is a good candidate for a
conversion - others have done this too.
BTW I am using UB121100 which is a sealed AGM battery that is used
for wheel chairs and rugged standby power applications:
http://www.universalpowergroup.com/specs/D5751.pdf
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Wayne
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 1:30 PM
To: EV
Subject: 12v Battery Advise Needed
All,
As I progress at a maddeningly glacial pace towards my EV conversion,
it has become overly apparent that weight, among many other factors,
is a serious consideration, not only in moving mass but weight
limitations on the donor vehicle and, ultimately, range.
The donor vehicle will be between 2000 and 2500 (pre-de-ICing)
lbs. My needs are for a 30 mile (winter-time) to 40 mile (fair
weather) range. I'm aiming for a 120v pack. 20 six volt batteries
are simply too heavy (for the donor vehicle) for my purposes, thus my
desire for 12v batteries.
I had been leaning strongly towards Optima Yellow Tops or
Orbital/Exide XCD's...The Yellow Tops appeal strongly to me owing to
the ability to orient the batteries with no regard to spillage.
However, I have been warned that Optimas and Orbitals are poor
choices for EV's due to a limited per-volt range capacity and overall
short-life. Also, I have been told that these batteries require
individual charge regulators and are easily damaged by improper
charging/discharging.
Regardless the final battery configuration, sealed or capped, I will
be using some form of balancing regulation (specific methodology yet
to be determined) and will be constantly monitoring the pack charge
so as to not exceed 80% discharge so the last listed issues are of
lesser concern to me. It is the supposed limited range and short
life that concerns me the most.
Soooooo, what's the recommended 12v battery? Surely there's
something out there that will do the job without being so
prohibitively expensive as to abandon the project (my budget for
batteries is capped at $2000.00).
Many thanks for your considered respons(es),
Wayne White
If those of us who "can", "do" then those of us who "can't" won't
suffer as much from the high prices of excess.
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Interestingly, I posted that link 5 days ago, attempting to invite a
dialog on V2G (Vehicle-to-grid) work, and I reaped no interest.
Want to use your car to power your house when the grid goes down?
Need to run tools away from the grid?
Let me introduce you to the web site
http://PriUPS.com
The Toyota Prius.
Gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles can serve as a
UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) for your house.
The Prius, unlike the generator, also has a battery that provides
instant, UPS-like power, to your house. Careful research has shown
that most* people would prefer not to go outside to manually pull a
cord in the case of a power failure. The same independent research
foundation,** using accepted methods of sampling and polling***,
determined that most* people would prefer not to spend money on a big,
expensive generator, even if they don't have to pull on the cord.
Details at:
http://PriUPS.com/sitenav.htm
--
Mike Bianchi
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Ahh, a breath of fresh air among all the mocking press!
Peri
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, 07 May, 2006 19:42
Subject: Wrightspeed article on CNN
Sorry if this is a repeat, but CNN had a noticibly positive article about
EVs:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/04/technology/business2_wrightspeed/index.htm?cnn=yes
Danny
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180vdc at 2amps at the top of the charge and 130vdc at 12 amps at the start of
charging. I have a 126 volt pack of floodies.
Hopefully in a few cycles i'll be able to use the truck for commuting again.
Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Amazing. Good find. What kind of voltage and current was going thru
that connector?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mark Hastings wrote:
>
> I start pulling out the wires between the onboard charger and the
inlet in the gas cap giving up on the idea that I'd find the fault
after months of trying on and off. Hiding in a section of frame tunnel
I find a seriously melted anderson where you can't see it but where
water and road grime can get to it and sit. I took a few pictures here
of the connector after I cleaned up and the goo.
> http://tinyurl.com/etkfc
> At first I thought I saw it before when I looked it over but I
have no record of it and don't see how I would have seen it buried in
there. I replaced it with some weatherproof permanent connectors
between just the pairs of wires I still need since there is no need
for a disconnect of anykind at that point or for that third set of
wires to be connected anymore since I don't have an offboard charger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 6 May 2006 21:58:13 -0700, you wrote:
>What would you define as a "powerful and reliable individual charger"?
>
>Please give me an example of such a device and how you would hook it up.
How about this? Why build it if you can buy it?
http://www.batterymart.com/pdf_files/deltran_shop_charger.pdf
http://www.automotivepartsnetwork.com/store/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=211
http://www.ineedparts.com/store/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=222
Matt Milliron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1981 Jet Electrica, Ford Escort
My daughter named it, "Pikachu".
It's yellow and black, electric and
contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
http://evalbum.com/702.html
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On 5/5/06, Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It may make no sense to get a highly efficient vehicle
that will only be used a limited number of miles per year because you
need a second more conventional vehicle to drive for your common tasks.
I guess we should all stop working on EV's then?
-Mike
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