EV Digest 5462
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) [Hybrid] Honda to put Insight powertrain in new Fit/Jazz
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Help with Lawn Mower Conversion
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery interconnect challenge
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
by "Will Beckett \(becketts\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: A new charger idea
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Suitable Range Extending Alternator for Trailer Power Supply
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Battery interconnect challenge
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: bulb regs and Magnechargers
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: DC-DC converters
by "Sweeney, John P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: [Hybrid] Honda to put Insight powertrain in new Fit/Jazz
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: No V28 Chevy at High Voltage Nationals
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Battery interconnect challenge
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) I think THIS is worth Taking NOTE of
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Battery interconnect challenge
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: No V28 Chevy at High Voltage Nationals
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Battery interconnect challenge
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) DC Regen
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: No V28 Chevy at High Voltage Nationals
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
6000 lbs??? Say what?? Cor, we need to find a scale!
I've played with the top speed constant, so the redline can be
changed, so maybe it does 80mph. In stock form it will sputter up to
75mph. Might be bit hard on the motor though at 80mph.
With gas prices at $3.25 around here for regular, it will be
interesting to see how much is sells for.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Looks like it's in decent shape, even though the
> seller is a bit clueless: I count 26 batteries (312V)
> which are more than likely bad at this moment and no
> way it is ever going to do 80 MPH (redline is 72) or
> 70 miles per charge on 70 Ah of batteries.
> But for the price it is a very interesting deal,
> including built-in Emeter and 3 chargers, two of
> which Magnechargers!
>
> Beats me why someone would shave doorhandles on a truck,
> maybe on a racing 2-seater it would make a difference,
> but on a truck?
> What's next? Carbon-fiber hood?
> Kind of putting deep dish rims on your garden tractor
> or rust-bucket-daily-driver-beater, but I digress.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ4638014037QQrdZ1
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought I saw a version of the Sentinel or it's oem that has
universal input from 88vac to 264vac.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Does anybody know if there any product or a a version of that
product that runs
> on 240v?
>
> I'm willing to give these a try, its a simple (and lazy) solution
for me. $1400
> for a way of getting a balanced charge on 23 XCDs is not a bad
price. OK, it
> might not be the best solution and its slowish but its easy and
cheap (unless
> their is a cheaper way? That doesn't involved being an electronic's
wizard.
>
>
> Quoting Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > If you use the big Battery Sentinel
> >
(http://www.automotivepartsnetwork.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=212&i
> > dproduct=22358), you should have reasonable success. A 120 volt
pack of
> > fully discharged Optimas should come up in about 6 to 8 hours. The
smaller
> > ones would take twice to four times a long to charge that pack.
> >
> > A note of caution: These chargers probably have a poor power
factor. They
> > are rated for ~100 watts of charge power but you may have a hard time
> > getting more than 10 of them to run on a single 15 amp circuit.
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > Fiesta 48 volts
> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 5:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
> >
> >
> > > On Sat, 6 May 2006 21:58:13 -0700, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >What would you define as a "powerful and reliable individual
charger"?
> > > >
> > > >Please give me an example of such a device and how you would
hook it up.
> > >
> > >
> > > How about this? Why build it if you can buy it?
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.batterymart.com/pdf_files/deltran_shop_charger.pdf
> > >
> > >
> >
http://www.automotivepartsnetwork.com/store/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=211
> > >
> > > http://www.ineedparts.com/store/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=222
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Matt Milliron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > 1981 Jet Electrica, Ford Escort
> > > My daughter named it, "Pikachu".
> > > It's yellow and black, electric and
> > > contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
> > > http://evalbum.com/702.html
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/05/honda_fit_hybri.php
Honda Fit Hybrid: Mid-2007, Hybrid CR-V: Late 2006
May 5, 2006 03:14 PM - Michael G. Richard, near Ottawa
Bradley Berman, the editor of HybridCars.com (you can see a video
interview with him at the New York Auto Show), has received
confirmation from an anonymous industry insider that Honda will
produce a hybrid version of the Fit (also known as the Honda Jazz - we
wrote about the possibility of a hybrid version a couple of months
ago). It is scheduled for release in mid-2007.
The insider said:
If you take the measurement from the wheel hub to the wheel hub of the
Fit and the Insight, they are the same to the millimeter. The Fit is
going to get the Insight engine. It's already a proven powertrain. It
will probably get fuel economy in the low to mid-50s.
According to the same source, Honda will probably continue to make the
Insight hybrid even though sales are very slow (less than 100 per
month) for the bragging right of having the most fuel efficient hybrid
(though it's arguable that the Toyota Prius is relatively more
efficient if you consider that it is heavier, roomier, more powerful
and doesn't use as much expensive aluminum to reduce weight).
In the interview, HybridCars.com learned that Honda would also release
a hybrid version of its CR-V mini-SUV [pictured above] in late 2006.
Honda has not publicly confirmed its plans for hybrid versions of the
Fit or CR-V. [...] Even with the Fit's hybrid premium, its price will
beat out the Civic Hybrid by approximately $5,000 and a Prius by
$7,000 or more. The gas-only Fit is powered by a 109-horsepower
1.5-liter, four-cylinder VTEC engine. The hybrid version. according to
the HybridCars.com interview, will utilize a 1.0-liter engine.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joel Silverman wrote:
> free Snapper 8hp rider, engine in the rear. The engine is shot but
> the entire chassis is in great shape. Looks like a great candidate
> for an electric conversion. I would like to be able to mow up to a
> 1/2 acre, my yard is basically flat. Need suggestions for voltage,
> a motor(hp, etc), charger, controller(if needed), etc.
I'm guessing this is a lightweight riding mower, not a garden tractor.
if so, it's weight-carrying capacity is pretty low. Since you have a lot
of batteries around, you might want to make a quick-change battery box
so you can mow the front yard, swap packs, and mow the back yard while
the other battery recharges. This will cut the mower's battery weight in
half.
The BB600's make sense. You only mow once a week, and there won't be so
many of them that it becomes a maintenance headache. They deliver high
current, so a light pack can still provide plenty of current for a short
time. A 24v to 36v pack should be about right.
A surprisingly small motor will be fine. I used a 1.5hp 24vdc motor from
ABC Electronics in Minneapolis to replace the 8hp motor in a garden
tractor.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice way to document your work Don!! Was the copper the softer
refridgerant type or the hard drawn water pipe stuff?
Can the reflow after crimping process be improved? Cold solder does
not crimp well as it becomes very fishured and cracked, thus the
higher impedance. Could just the first 1/4" at the end of the crimp be
fluxed and dipped instead of the whole crimp being dipped? This would
minimize wicking into the flexible part of the braid.
I build battery packs for the Battlebots folks with braid. It has to
stay flexible too. So I understand the problem.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Check out the short braided connections I made for my batteries - same
> scenario as you describe.
>
> http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_BatteryConnections.html
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Richard Rau
> Sent: May 9, 2006 12:22 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Battery interconnect challenge
>
> I'm converting a Porsche 914 for a customer, and I'm in a tight
> spot....literally.
> Because of limited space in several areas (240V of Odyssey #PC1700
batts.),
> the battery boxes need to be compact. 1/2" foam board all around,
and not
> much headroom. Bus bars will be used wherever possible to help in this
> regard....1/8"x1". (Zilla Z1K+ 9" motor= need for generous ampacity)
> I am concerned with 1/8" copper being too rigid and possibly
breaking the
> post seals.
> Details are important here. I'm aware of the need for some 'give' to be
> built into each bar. In most locations, that can be done. Others
however
> will be short with just a single curve, shaped somewhat like the
symbol for
> Ohm . How will my hawker Odysseys handle this? They will be snug
in their
> boxes and buss connection will be direct to their case-top level
terminals.
> Do any of you have insights as to the robustness of Odyssey post seals?
> Any feedback is appreciated.
> Richard
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 5/8/2006
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't believe it. My Blazer was 5,000 lbs.
- Will
323 Los Altos Drive
Aptos, CA 95003
(831) 688-8669
http://becketts.ws/Will
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 7:56 AM
To: Cor van de Water
Subject: Re: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
6000 lbs??? Say what?? Cor, we need to find a scale!
I've played with the top speed constant, so the redline can be changed, so
maybe it does 80mph. In stock form it will sputter up to 75mph. Might be bit
hard on the motor though at 80mph.
With gas prices at $3.25 around here for regular, it will be interesting to
see how much is sells for.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Looks like it's in decent shape, even though the seller is a bit
> clueless: I count 26 batteries (312V) which are more than likely bad
> at this moment and no way it is ever going to do 80 MPH (redline is
> 72) or 70 miles per charge on 70 Ah of batteries.
> But for the price it is a very interesting deal, including built-in
> Emeter and 3 chargers, two of which Magnechargers!
>
> Beats me why someone would shave doorhandles on a truck, maybe on a
> racing 2-seater it would make a difference, but on a truck?
> What's next? Carbon-fiber hood?
> Kind of putting deep dish rims on your garden tractor or
> rust-bucket-daily-driver-beater, but I digress.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ4638014037QQrdZ
> 1
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I proposed a similar idea once upon a time. Sometimes it's better to
put the working model in someones face for their opinion than to ask
them what they think of the idea. Not many people can envision its
function like you do. I'd say try it.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have been planning a new way of chargeing I'd like to try later this
> year, I think I have brought it up on list once before but I am trying
> to think of ways to improve it.I don't have time and money to play but
> that shouldn't stop someone who does have the resources. Since we are
> discussing balancing again....
>
> Warning, this idea is micro computer based. :-) the simplist version as
> follows.
>
> First imagine a control board for the PFC 20 that has 5 - 10k pots
> connected each thru a transistor(or relay) to the input of an opamp
> creating a voltage sumator. this feeds the opamp normally fed by a 10K
> pot. The least significant bit is dialed into a single 12Vers
> acceptance (or whatever 1 unit is for you) and bit 1 is for 2 units...
> like so
>
> bit0 14.77
> bit1 29.54
> bit2 59.08
> bit3 118.16
> bit4 236.32
> bit5 472.64
>
> The micro can select from 1 to 63 batteries worth of acceptance voltage
> with this bitcode.
> Second imagine #12 wire to each battery thru a relay board like Lee's
> balancer.
> Third we imagine the micro has 2 voltmeters 1 for the charger and one
> that can scan all the batteries in the pack with smaller transistors and
> wires.
>
> Now we implement a divide and conquer approach
> Lets assume 25 batteries :
>
> set charger to volts(25units) this is 11001 binary, turn on those
> transistors(236.32+118.16+14.77=369.25 = 25*14.77, Check)
> Charge whole pack, scanning all batteries for voltage limit of any one
> battery
> when a battery hits acceptance, divide the pack into two virtual halves
> lets say number 6 is full
> now charge 1-5 when that finishes charge 7-25
>
> Notice during the chargeing of 1-5 or 7-25 a battery will become full
> before the rest.Thus 1-5 or 7-25 will eqach be split.
> eventually we get down to chargeing 1 battery and we are done. (This
> means the micro must be able to handle recursion using a stack. Probably
> 8051 not PIC)
>
> We keep track of amperage in a shunt on the negative lead of the charger
> and the voltage as we charge each string for individual Ah collection.
>
> Pro's
> This should be faster
> This will work with out of balanced packs and can suggest how to
> rearrang the pack for even faster charge times. ie largest battery is
> battery 1 and smallest battery is battery 25 so that we charge 1-25 then
> 1-24 then 1-23 ... until we are chargeing 1-1 and done.
> It will serve as the emeter also
>
> Cons,
> Lots of extra wires, may not be two bad if split into 2 units, one
> for front batteries and one for rear batteries and a kelvin sense
> connection is used.
> requires programming. depends on micro, Must consider some spectacular
> failure modes and program like otmar programs his controllers.
> If you have 10 batteries, this is a waste of money, if you have 25 it is
> good, somewhere inbetween is well, somewhere in between.
>
> One idea I was thinking was to increase the bit resolution allowing for
> a variety of packs and to implement a set of regulator boards that arn't
> regulator boards. The are just interrupt boards with a voltage
> comparater and a binary code over a 1-wire connection back to the charge
> controller, In this way a fast micro can make possible the charge
> monitoring of the 100+ cell packs without as much cost.
>
> There would be a "valet" input tp select a second current control for
> oppertunity chargeing.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
> As Lee pointed out earlier a BLDC motor gets very poor
> efficiency when lightly loaded. This company has an
> interesting solution to this problem. The graphic on
> the main page shows exactly how this concept works,
> http://www.variabletorquemotors.com/index.html
> The rotor slides in and out of the stator creating
> a variable stack length and hence optimizing
> efficiency for a wide range of loads.
I've seen the movable rotor applied to AC motors for years; it's common
in small AC induction motors where a clutch/brake is activated by the
lengthwise movement of the rotor. There is a *huge* mechanical force
trying to re-center the rotor, so it is easy to have it activate a
brake, clutch, or other mechanical device.
But here, it's being done to mechanically vary the field strength, and
so to change the volt/rpm and amps/torque ratios of a PM motor. A clever
idea! It should neatly reduce the light-load losses, and provides a
mechanical speed adjustment.
PS: My favorite "oddball" motor is the spherical-rotor induction motor.
Infinitely variable synchronous speed with fixed-frequency, fixed
voltage excitation. The stator is cut into two half spheres, which can
be mechanically rotated 0-180 degrees relative to each other. The
spherical rotor fits inside. The surface velocity of the rotating
magnetic field is constant, but the speed that it imparts on the rotor
varies smoothly from 0 to normal synchronous speed!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike, I used water pipe copper. Heated and dipped in flux before
tinning. I tried to redip the crimp, but then the solder wicked up the
braid, causing the whole thing to stiffen. However, I am sure I have read
that others have had more success. I think Neon John wrote a posting about
this.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: May 9, 2006 8:11 AM
To: Don Cameron
Subject: Re: Battery interconnect challenge
Nice way to document your work Don!! Was the copper the softer refridgerant
type or the hard drawn water pipe stuff?
Can the reflow after crimping process be improved? Cold solder does not
crimp well as it becomes very fishured and cracked, thus the higher
impedance. Could just the first 1/4" at the end of the crimp be fluxed and
dipped instead of the whole crimp being dipped? This would minimize wicking
into the flexible part of the braid.
I build battery packs for the Battlebots folks with braid. It has to stay
flexible too. So I understand the problem.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Check out the short braided connections I made for my batteries - same
> scenario as you describe.
>
> http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_BatteryConnections.html
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Rau
> Sent: May 9, 2006 12:22 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Battery interconnect challenge
>
> I'm converting a Porsche 914 for a customer, and I'm in a tight
> spot....literally.
> Because of limited space in several areas (240V of Odyssey #PC1700
batts.),
> the battery boxes need to be compact. 1/2" foam board all around,
and not
> much headroom. Bus bars will be used wherever possible to help in this
> regard....1/8"x1". (Zilla Z1K+ 9" motor= need for generous ampacity)
> I am concerned with 1/8" copper being too rigid and possibly
breaking the
> post seals.
> Details are important here. I'm aware of the need for some 'give' to
> be built into each bar. In most locations, that can be done. Others
however
> will be short with just a single curve, shaped somewhat like the
symbol for
> Ohm . How will my hawker Odysseys handle this? They will be snug
in their
> boxes and buss connection will be direct to their case-top level
terminals.
> Do any of you have insights as to the robustness of Odyssey post seals?
> Any feedback is appreciated.
> Richard
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date:
> 5/8/2006
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds right. I would expect this behavior to diminish as the batteries
get back in balance over successive charge cycles. These regulators only
shunt 0.5 amps, so they can correct imbalance at the rate of about 0.5ah
per hour. If the batteries are (say) 5ah out of balance, you'll need 10
hours of charging to correct it. You're only going to do 1-2 hours of
overcharge per charge cycle, so it will take 5-10 charge cycles.
*nod* in the Cortez "Burn my ships" stype I just reprogrammed and
crashed my Dolphin trying to reduce the end charge voltage from 390 (way
too high, even with the regs) to 362. I'm going to be spending some time
now figuring out how to reprogram the darn thing properly.
What surprised me is that the Dolphin was cranking out 2ah rate even at
390 volts (only for about 10 mins before I caught it). Great. Hopefully
this did not damage the regs, glad I put a resistor in each one.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use a KEPCO supply for my DC-DC the model # is RKW12-27 it is a 27 amp
supply that runs on 85 to 265 VAC or 110 to 370 VDC The output is
adjustable +/- 10 percent (currently set to 13.8V) it can remote sense
voltage and has the ability to current share with other supplies. I
think I paid about $250 for it. It has worked flawlessly for me. The
supplies are available directly from KEPCO. KEPCO has much larger
supplies if you need more current.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:04 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: DC-DC converters
John,
The connection to pack wiring can occur anywhere _after_ the
contactor(s) so the battery pack is not drawn down while the
car is parked for a few days.
(alternatively if the DC/DC has a really low standby current
and has a "standby" input control, you could wire it before
the contactor(s) but certainly after the fuse/breaker and
preferably after current measuring shunt.
The main motor current does not go through the DC/DC wiring,
ou attach the DC/DC (input) wiring to the main current
carrying cables, it should add no more than a few amps.
Check the output side of the DC/DC: does it have more than
just two DC out contacts?
Does the manual say anything about current or load sharing?
How is the overload protection? is it current limited and
temperature protected or will it fail when overloaded?
If any of the sharing or limiting features are present
then you have a good chance to make this work, alternatively
Lee already suggested to use two slightly undersized or
long wires on each output to hook them up to your battery
and make the output "soft" so they will be forced to share load.
I would suggest to add a 30A fuse in each connection wire to
help protect the DC/DC and avoid you start a fire.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of John Norton
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 9:11 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: DC-DC converters
On Mon, 8 May 2006 5:42, Cor van de Water wrote:
> John,
>
> Yes, that one should work IF you can crank the output
> voltage up to your battery voltage (13.8 .. 14.5V)
>
It is adjustable, so far so good.
> Doubling may work, depending how close they are in output
> voltage and current sharing capabilities.
>
Here is where we learn that at least one of the two required semesters
of EE for this mechanical engineer was wasted.
Say you had 2 identical converters, adjusted to the same output voltage,
could you take the outputs in parallel and get 60A available for 12v
power?
>
> And yes - you better wire all loads across the entire pack
> or you will create unbalances in the pack.
I have looked at a diagram someone had posted of their EV wiring, and it
just showed the DC-DC converter wired across the pack voltage on the
same path as the controller, but (back to that wasted semester) is that
okay with 100's of amps flowing through the wire? Is there a shunt or
something else in the configuration?
John F. Norton
via T-Mobile Sidekick
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--- Begin Message ---
Perfect for our second car! We have a 92 Honda Prelude and my
Partner, while really pro EV isn't ready to have two all electric EVs!
Besides, We need something to do large distances in. Kudos to Honda
if they actually do this!
On May 9, 2006, at 3:41 PM, Mike Ellis wrote:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/05/honda_fit_hybri.php
Honda Fit Hybrid: Mid-2007, Hybrid CR-V: Late 2006
May 5, 2006 03:14 PM - Michael G. Richard, near Ottawa
Bradley Berman, the editor of HybridCars.com (you can see a video
interview with him at the New York Auto Show), has received
confirmation from an anonymous industry insider that Honda will
produce a hybrid version of the Fit (also known as the Honda Jazz - we
wrote about the possibility of a hybrid version a couple of months
ago). It is scheduled for release in mid-2007.
The insider said:
If you take the measurement from the wheel hub to the wheel hub of the
Fit and the Insight, they are the same to the millimeter. The Fit is
going to get the Insight engine. It's already a proven powertrain. It
will probably get fuel economy in the low to mid-50s.
According to the same source, Honda will probably continue to make the
Insight hybrid even though sales are very slow (less than 100 per
month) for the bragging right of having the most fuel efficient hybrid
(though it's arguable that the Toyota Prius is relatively more
efficient if you consider that it is heavier, roomier, more powerful
and doesn't use as much expensive aluminum to reduce weight).
In the interview, HybridCars.com learned that Honda would also release
a hybrid version of its CR-V mini-SUV [pictured above] in late 2006.
Honda has not publicly confirmed its plans for hybrid versions of the
Fit or CR-V. [...] Even with the Fit's hybrid premium, its price will
beat out the Civic Hybrid by approximately $5,000 and a Prius by
$7,000 or more. The gas-only Fit is powered by a 109-horsepower
1.5-liter, four-cylinder VTEC engine. The hybrid version. according to
the HybridCars.com interview, will utilize a 1.0-liter engine.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know this isn't how this would be done, but I have a hilarious (in
my mind) mental image of the V28 Chevy with a couple hundred orange
extension cords dangling out the trunk.
-Mike
On 5/9/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dave,
Not a dumb question at all. I think we actually discussed the
possibility of doing this on the show but scrapped the idea due to
space and time constraints. The chargers are very light and bring back
a completely discharged pack to full in 1 hr., so providing you had
sufficient grid power it would really take the TIME out of recharge
time. I may be missing something in my equation here though. I can't
remember if we discussed whether or not the packs needed to be isolated
during charging. MADMAN was our charge guru perhaps he has some input
here.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 8 May 2006 19:09:43 -0700
Subject: Re: No V28 Chevy at High Voltage Nationals
Dumb question time again.
I was thinking about the holders for the v28s, and the problem of
charging them, and I was wondering if it would be possible to install
the chargers in the car, do a little rewiring, and use them as battery
holders, and maybe wire the chargers together too?
David C Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"The Bush administration's priorities are
"a little bit different now and veterans aren't a priority,"
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 6:54 PM
Subject: No V28 Chevy at High Voltage Nationals
> All,
>
> Despite our best efforts I received word today that the V28 MG Chevy
will > not be available for the High Voltage Nationals.
> Though no fault of Milwaukee's John Zick who continues to push to get
us > back on the track, the logistics of a large corp. and the previous
> obligations for the car were too much. We are doubling our efforts to
see > this machine on the track in Hagerstown in June. We were hoping
to at > least be there nice, big, and red in the White Zombie's rear
view but the > racing season is still young....
>
> Shawn "One Short" Lawless
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Richard Rau writes:
"Do any of you have insights as to the robustness of Odyssey post
seals?"
I'm using Hawker SBSJ40's, which I believe are similar, on my daughters
go-kart (2 on each side), and each pair is connected with the same bus
bar arrangement as you mentioned. A cable just would not work across
that short a distance. As much vibration as this thing sees (no
suspension, but used on gravel drives and yards), I think they are
holding up marvelously. Yours will be pampered by comparison.
David Brandt
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The price of the XEbra.. is what is interesting.
Under $9999. Retail...
This LINK was sent to me by a freelance News Group in Salem OR.
run by Tim King..
Thanks Tim.. Great Footage... (now the whole World can see your story...)
http://salem-news.com/articles/may82006/Electric_Cars2_5706.php
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 9, 2006, at 6:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is wrong with my carbon fiber hood ???
See
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/742
Well, between the light weight replacement hood and non-factory
installed spoiler your likely to find yourself bumped out of the street
conversion class. You still have the headliner, right? I'd hate to see
you bumped out of Pro Street Conversion too.
Paul
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--- Begin Message ---
Dennis Berube posted about his success with the charger in the second
link below (Deltran.) I purchased one of the 10 bank units from Battery
Mart for $480. It certainly put my 10 new Optimas in line quickly. I
figure it will be a handy way to finish charge safely.
Paul "neon" G.
On May 8, 2006, at 7:26 PM, Seth Rothenberg wrote:
People posted some links.
I'm not sure how we know if something is reliable, but...
on Friday, I stopped at West Marine and got a charger.
They had a few choices, I grabbbed a
"10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] / (5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] *2)" charger.
So this means for my special case, trying to rehabilitate
(to some degree) 22 batteries, I can charge 2 batteries
at a time, slowly....I already did 6.
http://www.automotivepartsnetwork.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?
idcategory=212&id
product=22358
http://www.batterymart.com/pdf_files/deltran_shop_charger.pdf
http://www.automotivepartsnetwork.com/store/pc/viewCat_P.asp?
idCategory=211
http://www.ineedparts.com/store/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=222
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cliff,
Great step by step, thanks. It sure does seem less expensive than cable and
lugs. I really like the signal wire incorporation.
I am about to start my cables for my 30 battery set-up and have already gotten
the lugs, 2/0 cable and press (a Harbor Freight press that I have reinforced...
), and made a die for a hex crimp.
But I was wondering if the braid you used can be used for all the
interconnects? Battery to battery? Battery to controller? Controller to motor?
It sure is cheaper than cable. Can this braid carry enough current?
For batteries the problem is the post/lug itself. I am using Trojan's with a
battery post. I suppose a longer piece of copper tubing could be cut, braid
stuck and cold welded into one end, the rest flattened and wrapped around the
terminal, and then a hole drilled for a nut/bolt to tighten the wrapped copper
tube securely around the post. The exact geometry of the neg and pos post would
have to be figured out.
What do you think?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: Battery interconnect challenge
> Hi Richard,
>
> You might look at making braided interconnects. They worked well for us when
> we were running Cyclons. Look here is a step by step description:
> http://www.proev.com/WHistPgs/Hist0011.htm
>
> We also made longer cables for the Kokam's. The ends are different but it
> gives an idea of ways to make them. They handle 600 amps without getting
> warm.
> http://www.proev.com/WHistPgs/Hist0038.htm
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Cliff
> www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if the V28 Chevy has been running since the Monster Garage
spectacle? Is anyone available, willing and able to dismantle the
battery pack to charge the batteries and put the pack back together?
Is anyone available, willing and able to repair any problems that
occur?
My guess is that that the answer to all these questions is no.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Battery interconnect challenge
> Cliff,
>
> Great step by step, thanks. It sure does seem less expensive than cable
> and lugs. I really like the signal wire incorporation.
>
> I am about to start my cables for my 30 battery set-up and have already
> gotten the lugs, 2/0 cable and press (a Harbor Freight press that I have
> reinforced... ), and made a die for a hex crimp.
>
> But I was wondering if the braid you used can be used for all the
> interconnects? Battery to battery? Battery to controller? Controller to
> motor? It sure is cheaper than cable. Can this braid carry enough current?
>
> For batteries the problem is the post/lug itself. I am using Trojan's with
> a battery post. I suppose a longer piece of copper tubing could be cut,
> braid stuck and cold welded into one end, the rest flattened and wrapped
> around the terminal, and then a hole drilled for a nut/bolt to tighten the
> wrapped copper tube securely around the post. The exact geometry of the
> neg and pos post would have to be figured out.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
Its not a good connection to wrap around a lead post with a copper tube.
You will not be able to control the shrink back and apply the recommended
inch lbs of torque required for a minimum ampere.
I used bare copper connections at one time, and they all turn green. The
copper contact to the lead, also cause a corrosion reaction between the two
surfaces.
Rich Rudman told me at one time, that he used copper buss bars connected to
a lead battery post using a battery terminal clamps that has a clamping bar
with two bolts.
I was using cadmium plated lugs directly connected to the lead post and
still was getting a contact corrosion, because of the two de-similar metals.
I therefore install gold plated battery clamps, which only cost me $1.75
each (a Christmas special). I think they are now in the $2.00 range from
WirthCo Engineering, Inc. www.wirthco.com.
They have two types, one is the two bolt clamp bar type and another that is
a marine type that has one bolt and nut, which I am using for my existing
links. I can reused these connections on any type of battery post spacing,
by just rotating the battery clamp.
The two bolt bar clamp would work good for the flexible braided
links. Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 6:33 AM
> Subject: Re: Battery interconnect challenge
>
>
> > Hi Richard,
> >
> > You might look at making braided interconnects. They worked well for us
> > when
> > we were running Cyclons. Look here is a step by step description:
> > http://www.proev.com/WHistPgs/Hist0011.htm
> >
> > We also made longer cables for the Kokam's. The ends are different but
> > it
> > gives an idea of ways to make them. They handle 600 amps without getting
> > warm.
> > http://www.proev.com/WHistPgs/Hist0038.htm
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Cliff
> > www.ProEV.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
I thought I saw a version of the Sentinel or it's oem that has
universal input from 88vac to 264vac.
Mike
That would be their "SR" model numbers:
1205SR, 12V 3A:
http://soneil.com/Completesets/SPEC1205SR(REV%2003).17-Jun-04.pdf
2409SR, 24V 4A:
http://soneil.com/Completesets/SPEC2409SR(Rev%2004).17-Dec-03.pdf
...as well as the new 6V model:
604CC, 6V 2A:
http://soneil.com/Completesets/SPEC604CCSONEIL(RevA00).013105.pdf
An interesting bit about Soneil is that they actually *recommend* using
their chargers in parallel and/or serial arrangements:
http://soneil.com/Parallel&SerialApplication.28-Jul-03.pdf
If so... then the 24V, 8A constant current "on-board" charger
w/interlock might be a possible multi-charger setup for those with
lot-o-batteries:
http://soneil.com/Completesets/2416SRF.021402.pdf
And the Sentinel multibank charger *is* a Soneil 1230SBC::
http://www.acichargers.com/
Someone on the list made a negative remark on Soneil's charging
algorithm awhile back, though...
~ Peanut Gallery ~
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--- Begin Message ---
A few days ago the subject of DC Regen surfaced and I
followed it with interest as I have a 1993 Soleq EVCort
which interestingly has a shunt wound DC motor made special
by GE for this conversion. It also has Regen that IMHO
works pretty good. It will regen up to 225 Amps @ 130V and
continue to regen all the way down to about 2mph.
My question is this: Is there some other greater advantage
that the serial only wound DC motors give so that the shunt
wound motor isn't the type of choice for EVs?
I know that the current in the dual pole armature is rated
at 200A each and the field at 20A. Is this 20/1 armature to
field current ratio a problem for creating torque or HP?
The motor appears to be pretty strong at 40kw.
Chet
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Michaela,
That is what the Yahoo groups are for!
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/uselectricar/
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Michaela Merz
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 7:16 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
I usually try to stay away from trucks like that. Seems that quite a few
people have 'worked' on it and, now that it is broken, they sell it.
mm.
> Looks like it's in decent shape, even though the
> seller is a bit clueless: I count 26 batteries (312V)
> which are more than likely bad at this moment and no
> way it is ever going to do 80 MPH (redline is 72) or
> 70 miles per charge on 70 Ah of batteries.
> But for the price it is a very interesting deal,
> including built-in Emeter and 3 chargers, two of
> which Magnechargers!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom,
The answer is actually Yes to all but the first sentence.
After the filiming, John Zick and his team at Milwaukee disassembled
the pack, cleaned and painted the car, (it was trashed from the fire
extinguishers) and replaced the top layer of batteries (disconnected)
to show how they were arranged at MG. I have offered to repair and
prep the car for racing wholly at my expense. Keep the faith, the 100
mph dream is not dead yet.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Shay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tue, 9 May 2006 10:22:08 -0700
Subject: Re: No V28 Chevy at High Voltage Nationals
I wonder if the V28 Chevy has been running since the Monster Garage
spectacle? Is anyone available, willing and able to dismantle the
battery pack to charge the batteries and put the pack back together?
Is anyone available, willing and able to repair any problems that
occur?
My guess is that that the answer to all these questions is no.
--- End Message ---
