EV Digest 5463
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: DC Regen
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Battery interconnect challenge
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: DC Regen
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Rav4 blog article hits digg.com frontpage
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Rav4 blog article hits digg.com frontpage
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: tax laws
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: DC Regen
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: DC Regen
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Minimum Power
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Plug-In Hybrid forum this Saturday in PT
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Prius to get 113mpg
by "Felix Gardner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Plug-In Hybrid forum this Saturday in PT
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Plug-In Hybrid forum this Saturday in PT
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
A few days ago the subject of DC Regen surfaced and I
followed it with interest as I have a 1993 Soleq EVCort
which interestingly has a shunt wound DC motor made special
by GE for this conversion. It also has Regen that IMHO
works pretty good. It will regen up to 225 Amps @ 130V and
continue to regen all the way down to about 2mph.
Hi Chet,
Good to hear you have a EvCort. I worked on one recently and found it
a nicely done conversion.
I've found that (presumably due to the regen) the motor brushes only
last about 15,000 miles on the EVCort. Have you run into that with
yours?
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Big thanks to all of you for the great feedback on battery interconnects.
zoom zoom.......Richard
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/335 - Release Date: 5/9/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It only has about 7500 miles on it. Hopefully, it won't
need them for a while. Although when I put in the new
battery pack I think I should take a look at them.
But that brings up another question. There is a noise that
I suspect might be the bearings in the motor. Kind of like
the reverse gear noise in a manual transmission but only
when going very slow. Could they be bad after only 7500
miles? It has been sitting an awfull lot. Being over 12
years old. If so where could I get them changed?
I'm in the Dallas, TX area.
--- Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >A few days ago the subject of DC Regen surfaced and I
> >followed it with interest as I have a 1993 Soleq EVCort
> >which interestingly has a shunt wound DC motor made
> special
> >by GE for this conversion. It also has Regen that IMHO
> >works pretty good. It will regen up to 225 Amps @ 130V
> and
> >continue to regen all the way down to about 2mph.
>
> Hi Chet,
> Good to hear you have a EvCort. I worked on one recently
> and found it
> a nicely done conversion.
>
> I've found that (presumably due to the regen) the motor
> brushes only
> last about 15,000 miles on the EVCort. Have you run into
> that with
> yours?
>
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/
> The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
> Now accepting resumes. Please see:
> http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Two notes on this:
1) There is a page two to this post which I didn't quote (the site is
getting hosed and it took a long time to load.
2) Appologies for quoting some of the political opinion/slant to the list.
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Told you the owner is clueless ;-)
Serious - I doubt that this truck will sell for more
than $5000 (one dollar per pound) as the owners have
messed it up a bit too badly for a clean sale.
It sure is a far cry from a clean RAV4 EV with new NiMH pack!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 7:56 AM
To: Cor van de Water
Subject: Re: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
6000 lbs??? Say what?? Cor, we need to find a scale!
I've played with the top speed constant, so the redline can be
changed, so maybe it does 80mph. In stock form it will sputter up to
75mph. Might be bit hard on the motor though at 80mph.
With gas prices at $3.25 around here for regular, it will be
interesting to see how much is sells for.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Looks like it's in decent shape, even though the
> seller is a bit clueless: I count 26 batteries (312V)
> which are more than likely bad at this moment and no
> way it is ever going to do 80 MPH (redline is 72) or
> 70 miles per charge on 70 Ah of batteries.
> But for the price it is a very interesting deal,
> including built-in Emeter and 3 chargers, two of
> which Magnechargers!
>
> Beats me why someone would shave doorhandles on a truck,
> maybe on a racing 2-seater it would make a difference,
> but on a truck?
> What's next? Carbon-fiber hood?
> Kind of putting deep dish rims on your garden tractor
> or rust-bucket-daily-driver-beater, but I digress.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ4638014037QQrdZ1
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Time to shave your door handles ;-)
Seriously - Your pickup is in another class than the S10,
for one, because it is half the weight!
(And I have never seen a US Electricar being drag-raced)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 7:00 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
What is wrong with my carbon fiber hood ???
See
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/742
Robert Salem
Quoting Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Looks like it's in decent shape, even though the
> seller is a bit clueless: I count 26 batteries (312V)
> which are more than likely bad at this moment and no
> way it is ever going to do 80 MPH (redline is 72) or
> 70 miles per charge on 70 Ah of batteries.
> But for the price it is a very interesting deal,
> including built-in Emeter and 3 chargers, two of
> which Magnechargers!
>
> Beats me why someone would shave doorhandles on a truck,
> maybe on a racing 2-seater it would make a difference,
> but on a truck?
> What's next? Carbon-fiber hood?
> Kind of putting deep dish rims on your garden tractor
> or rust-bucket-daily-driver-beater, but I digress.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ4638014037QQrdZ1
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This blog entry is on the digg.com frontpage (digg is the new
slashdot). The article is nothing new for us, but digg is "THE"
younger-tech-geek website right now. This will reach a lot of readers.
I can't find a by-line on the blog, is this a list-member?
-Mike
http://geeklimit.com/2006/05/09/i-drive-a-30k-80mph-166mpg-suv/
I drive an 80mph, 166mpg SUV Posted on Tuesday 9 May 2006
Digg This
OK, after reading the headline, you're probably now looking for "the
catch". There isn't one. I drive a 2002 Toyota RAV4 EV. It costs
about $1.80 to go 100 miles, and I commute daily at about 75 miles per
hour without any problems. And if you think I baby it, I don't. Ask
the bureaucracy over at the emission place when they made me bring it
in, despite my explanations over the phone. They have an
electric-vehicle burnout to show for it. (They loved it)
(Picture of the RAV4EV at right, in line at the Emissions Testing
Facility. The funny parts were when they tried to pressure-test the
gas cap (it doesn't have one), and when the computer wouldn't read the
engine's RPM sensor (no engine, no RPM's)…eventually they just had me
sign a form and I was on my way with an audience of 10
emissions-testing personnel)
Now that we have that out of the way…
In these times of high gas prices, you'd think everyone would want one
of these, the problem is that many people don't know about them.
Maybe this post can change that.
OK, so maybe there is one catch after all. It doesn't use gas. At
all. It's not a hybrid, it's an electric vehicle. The 'mpg' I'm
listing here (166) is how far I can go on $3 of electricity, so it is
a "mpg-cost-equivalent. You've probably never heard of this car,
because there is a long list of people who don't want you to have one,
including the manufacturers and oil cartels. In fact, these same
people were successful in getting rid of the RAV4 EV back in 2003, via
their lobbyists and marketing departments.
The manufacturer's excuse? No-one wants a usable car that requires
little, if any maintenance, and gets the cost equivalent of 166mpg.
Of course, the "lack of demand" was no surprise, considering the car
was never advertised too strongly.
The oil cartel's excuse? Well, you can imagine.
I've worked pretty hard on the Wikipedia entry for the RAV4EV , along
with other RAV4 EV owners and fans, so check it out. I'm not the most
knowledgeable person about electric vehicles, but I tried to post
everything I could personally verify. The RAV4 EV community filled in
the rest, and they've been doing a great job! (as most uninhibited
collaborative communities do).
I had planned on writing more about the RAV4 EV here, but the
wikipedia article does such a great job, I decided to let you read it
for yourselves… Go ahead and read it a second, then come back, I'm
not done yet…
Now that you're back, you probably want to know what you can do to get
an Electric Vehicle, since they're easy on you wallet and the earth
(including your own health!). We all need you to voice our opinion
about the blocking of the electric vehicle in the United States. As
we've seen time and time again, companies who have their own sales
channels usually try to stifle progress and force people into adopting
their business model (*cough*RIAA*cough*) Not only does this end up
being unsuccessful in the end (*cough*bittorrent*cough*), but it's
also not fair to all of those Geeks out there trying to use technology
for the betterment of everyone, instead of the profit of a few. In
this case, the manufacturers even went to the extreme of buying the
cars back, just to crush them out of existence.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A couple thoughts....
The current administration is NOT anti-ev. The tax credits on the books were
originally supposed to die years ago but
they keep getting extended. Doesn't sound anti-ev to me.
Having typed that I should point out that contrary to many peoples beliefs the
IRS does not make the rules! Congress
does! The IRS is merely the ageny that enforces the rules set forth by Congress.
Conversions DO QUALIFY for tax credits. see pub 535 pay close attention to the
part where it mentions the credit for
the intallation of clean burning fuel equipment. True you don't get a credit
for the whole car, but you do get a
credit for the EV portion of it.
They are supposed to expire this year too. I can't stress enough that now is
the time to write your congress-person(s)
and urge them to extend the credits.
And make sure you apply for the credit if you're eligible. What's the sense in
keeping a credit on the books if no-one
is going to take advantage of it.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of John Norton
> Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 1:38 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: tax laws
>
>
> On Sun, 7 May 2006 3:09, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> Hmm interesting.
>>
>> Considering how anti-EV the current POTUS is, does the Senator (what
>> did you say his name was?) think they can get an expanded EV credit
>> past the guy that insisted they eliminate the credit entirely?
>>
>
> Probably be easier to make progress on this if you don't pass on mis or
> disinformation.
>
> Why would you say the current guy is anti-EV? That is demonstrably untrue.
> As well as the part about insistence on the elimination of the tax credit.
>
> The President has said that technology is the way out of dependence on oil.
> So he agrees with you more than you would admit.
>
>
> John F. Norton
> via T-Mobile Sidekick
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That could be the brushes. But it could also just be the whine of the
low frequency controller. If you rev up the motor a but in neutral,
then turn the key off and listen to it spin down do you still hear
the noise?
If it sounds like brushes I would not drive it until they are inspected.
You can remove the brush cover from under the car after removing the
lower plastic pan. Have a look at the commutator, if the brushes are
worn out you'll see a rough area on the comm within the area that the
brushes are sweeping. This comes from the washer that holds the leads
on the brushes rubbing the comm.
Here is a picture of the brushes after I took them out:
http://cafeelectric.com/temp/EVcortBrushes.JPG
hth,
-Otmar
At 12:39 PM -0700 5/9/06, Chet Fields wrote:
It only has about 7500 miles on it. Hopefully, it won't
need them for a while. Although when I put in the new
battery pack I think I should take a look at them.
But that brings up another question. There is a noise that
I suspect might be the bearings in the motor. Kind of like
the reverse gear noise in a manual transmission but only
when going very slow. Could they be bad after only 7500
miles? It has been sitting an awfull lot. Being over 12
years old. If so where could I get them changed?
I'm in the Dallas, TX area.
--- Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>A few days ago the subject of DC Regen surfaced and I
>followed it with interest as I have a 1993 Soleq EVCort
>which interestingly has a shunt wound DC motor made
special
>by GE for this conversion. It also has Regen that IMHO
>works pretty good. It will regen up to 225 Amps @ 130V
and
>continue to regen all the way down to about 2mph.
Hi Chet,
Good to hear you have a EvCort. I worked on one recently
and found it
a nicely done conversion.
I've found that (presumably due to the regen) the motor
brushes only
last about 15,000 miles on the EVCort. Have you run into
that with
yours?
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
> http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's another USE Truck on Ebay. 4638493123
I know I'm tempted ;)
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Told you the owner is clueless ;-)
>
> Serious - I doubt that this truck will sell for more
> than $5000 (one dollar per pound) as the owners have
> messed it up a bit too badly for a clean sale.
>
> It sure is a far cry from a clean RAV4 EV with new NiMH pack!
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 7:56 AM
> To: Cor van de Water
> Subject: Re: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
>
>
> 6000 lbs??? Say what?? Cor, we need to find a scale!
>
> I've played with the top speed constant, so the redline can be
> changed, so maybe it does 80mph. In stock form it will sputter up to
> 75mph. Might be bit hard on the motor though at 80mph.
>
> With gas prices at $3.25 around here for regular, it will be
> interesting to see how much is sells for.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <ev@> wrote:
> >
> > Looks like it's in decent shape, even though the
> > seller is a bit clueless: I count 26 batteries (312V)
> > which are more than likely bad at this moment and no
> > way it is ever going to do 80 MPH (redline is 72) or
> > 70 miles per charge on 70 Ah of batteries.
> > But for the price it is a very interesting deal,
> > including built-in Emeter and 3 chargers, two of
> > which Magnechargers!
> >
> > Beats me why someone would shave doorhandles on a truck,
> > maybe on a racing 2-seater it would make a difference,
> > but on a truck?
> > What's next? Carbon-fiber hood?
> > Kind of putting deep dish rims on your garden tractor
> > or rust-bucket-daily-driver-beater, but I digress.
> >
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ4638014037QQrdZ1
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chet Fields wrote:
> [Soleq Evcort] There is a noise that I suspect might be the bearings
> in the motor. Kind of like the reverse gear noise in a manual
> transmission but only when going very slow.
If it's an 800 Hz whistle, it's from the controller and is normal. The
Evcort controller switches at about 800 Hz which is plainly audible.
If it's a soft "screee" sort of sound, it could be the brushes sliding
on the commutator. That is also normal.
I just had an up-close look at an EVcort, and it is indeed nicely done.
But this one isn't running. Was working, then it just "cut out" while
driving according to the owner. Everything is boxed up so tightly that
it is hard to probe anything, and there are no schematics. Can anyone
who has one help?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the pursuit of an EV grin, there are many variables. One of the
biggest for many is $$$. Now I know there are many that find the concept
of NEVs distasteful, so let's just call this a "partial conversion" ;)
Given a micro or mini donor car (1200 - 1800 lbs complete without bats &
motor), what kind of power (kW) is needed for in-town driving?
I'm talking 35MPH (maybe 40) top speed, mostly flat with the occasional
one or two block hill, using a common (6" - 8") series DC motor and 4 or
5 speed manual tranny. This is so that the car can get put to use in
*some* capacity while saving up for the "highway capable
controller/battery pack combo", instead of merely being used to stop the
grass from growing ;)
Would 48V, 150A constant - 400A peak be enough (7.2 - 19.2kW) to shuffle
such a car around the neighborhood? How about the overly optimistic 100A
constant - 300A peak (4.8 - 14.4kW) at 48V? This voltage should get the
motor (lightly loaded) up around 3000RPM, yes/no? How about 36V even?
Why? Well, given that the motor is already mounted to the tranny, then:
$320 Batts ($80 x 4)
$330 Charger (4 bank multicharger)
~$300 48V Controller (TSE/Alltrax/Curtis)
-------------------------------------------
$950 town only setup
With this being the next step (in addition to the above already in the car):
$320 Batts ($80 x 4)
$330 Charger (4 bank multicharger)
~$800 96V Controller (TSE/Curtis)
-------------------------------------------
$1450 light hwy setup
And then maybe add this:
$320 Batts ($80 x 4)
$330 Charger (4 bank multicharger)
~$2000 144V Controller (Curtis/Zilla)
--------------------------------------------
$2650 sporty setup
As opposed to this:
$960 Batts ($80 x 12)
~$1200 144V Charger
~$2000 144V Controller
-------------------------------------------
$4160 sporty setup from the start
Given that the last option results in the car sitting around for a
year... how much ICE cost is that at ~10miles/day?
3500 miles @ 24MPG = 145 gallons @ $3.10/gal = $450 + pollution generated.
But the main part is saving wear & tear on the ICE car + EV grin *now*!
~ Peanut Gallery ~
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry Rod, But I am Hijacking this thread to the SEVA list and to the Main
EVlist.
Madman
Warning... no time to spell check... phone ringing...
In the last couple of Days like since Sunday... I have had my hands in
Ryan's Pirus pretty deeply.
First I will be up in PT for sure with Ryan... I just did about 250 miles in
it, In a Ride over to Wenatchee and back. So.. I am getting some hands on
time with the PiPrius.
First the Calcars system, One didn't work as it came back from California...
And actualy ate it self for dinner about last Wensday. The contactors
actaully left the running System totally disconnected from both packs for a
Brief instant.. and things smoked and failed. Ryan got it running again as a
normal Prius after pulling some fuses and resetting suff. Lucky him.
About that time I was asked if we could try my idea of using a PFC30
charger as a buffer DC/DC converter to pull from the Add a Pack and then
charge the Prius's NiMH pack, Being very carfull to not over voltage the
Spendy NiMH. OK .. that's just what my chargers do very well. They have a
pretty solid and adjustable voltage regulation setting. We just needed to
find the Right voltage and current to NOT hurt Mr. Toyota Nice Idea...
wonder if it works. Sunday I found Ryan and his 100 mpg Prius in my shop...
Lets find out shall we?? OK..er... I hope I don't hurt What I can't fix.
I dicharged the 20 amphour at 228 volt pack of B&B AGMs, I got 2700
watt hours on the first pass. And recharged them with a PFC30 to 280 volts.
(14.73 volts) They took power very well, and we did not let them taper below
about 5 amps... they are new and show "Growth" at the end of a charge cycle
by not tapering off fast. They just take it and take it..... I lost
patientece.. and we went to the next step.
I fed the PFC30 from the PbLa pack.. without any issues... Ok folks
that't the first time I have officially run one of my chargers off of DC,
and Well it all worked. I even manged to open the AC rated breaker on 218
voltd DC.. that makes a Loud POP, with Blue stuff leaking out of the breaker
case... 36 DC feed amp IS more than a 30 amp Beaker can stand for about 5
minutes... abit of excitment.. No damage... Lots'O pucker factor.. This
output was stuffed in my loadbank with our 15kw Windloader. OK.. all works
as planned on the test bench. Now out to the Pirius. First we dailed in the
best guess voltage the Prius's NiMH pack would want to see as the output
limit on the PFC charger. We picked 242 from watching the CAN buss Scanner
that Ryan has installed on the Prius.
We ripped oout all the "other" circuits and spoofing controls and
contactors and anything that waws not stock Toyota. All the Calcars stuff
that was in the Prius from the Make magazine install was taken out. We left
the prototype DeltaQ charger in and the Battery pack of course. So .. there
is LOTS Of room behind the pack that was stuffed full of circuit boards and
contactors and such.
And we simply wired the output of the PFC30 to the NiMH pack. and wired
the AC input of the PFC30 to the 218 volt Lead acid add on pack....and
flipped the breaker on the charger.
All fired up, Then we dailed in some amps while watching the volts display
on the Can View that is being piped to the Main Prius display screen.
The volts came up, the SOC came up... Just as planned... Then we took a
ride....
It was that simple...
Prius Plug in Hybrid... Working... After a LOT of fear and testing.. it
really was that simple.
The tuning part of getting the charge computer to keep the ICE engine off,
that took a little more tweaking. We adjusted the charge voltage down to
about 234, and the current up to max. and it worked better, But the SOC
would drift up too far and the engine would kick on to drop the pack back
down, thinking it had over charged the NiMH, Then we would turn off the
charger, and the SOC would drift dwon until the ICE came on to restore the
pack. Well OK this is what you would exxpect for about 10 minutes of
practice.... We upped the voltage to 237, and used the Accelerator harder
when the SOC drifted up too much, and clearly we needed more Learning time.
This ended at about 10:30 PM Sunday.
Day one.. success... no smoke, and we can really charge the NiMH from the
PbLA... and keep it all under control.
Day two.. I am on the 7:10 am Ferry heading to Steve Lough's place to hook
up with Ryan... and his trusty PFC30 enhanced Prius. We are going to
Wenatchee, Wa on the other side of the Cascades to give a Ride and PiP Show
for the Chelan county Dept of comerce and the Wenatche PUD, at the Wenatche
Valley college. Cool ....And of course we ..er I needed as much time as
possible tweaking the "Sytem"...
Got there it was snowing like Heck up in Stevens pass.. 4000 Ft mountain
passes... not a real good mile per Gallon number... and while Regening down
the East slopes... Not enough room to store many Kwhr of power... 5 amphrs
of NiMH is NOT a really big storage bank... Hummm new Mode of charger...suck
from NiMH and recharge the PbLa... Need more contactors... But ... not while
under way.
First thing is to get the Pb recharged.. OK that's what we are going to
us the DeltaQ for, It's installed, and Well it gets to do grid work while
the PFC does the big current chores that it is buildt for.
We can't get more than about 2 amps into the pack..OK we be charged!......or
so we thought...
We back out into the Windy sunny East slope spring Day, Wow this place
is Stunningly beautifull. Where's the wind farm when you need it? Better
than that.. The Chelan county PUD has 4 Hydro plants , 2 on the main
Columbia River.. the high drop from Lake Chelan to the River... 100 of ft
of drop...And one other that is pretty amazing on the upper end of the lake
serving..Stehikin. And well it's been a heavy snow year.. and they just
can't sell all they can make... in fact they have water going over the tops
of dams.. and the main big feed from the pac NW to California is at
capacity... They have Get this residentail goes for 2.8 Cents a Kwhr, and
comercial is at 1.8 cents. Can you say a EVers Dream!! That a half cent
for a mile in my EVs. Drooooool!!!
We found a empty parking lot and started doing laps... mile one... no ICE.
Mile two No ice... had to turn down the volts.. and Maxed out the PFC30s
currrent... Mile 3... charger actually starts to ramp the fans up... Mile 4
the charger is clearly giving us more range... Fans are getting to full
power.... Mile 5.. SNAP!.. opened the 30 amp breaker again... with a 36 amp
draw. Reset breaker... turned PFC down to about %75... As the SOC rises...
we turn the PFC current to 0... as the SOC Fall below about 55% we repower
up the PFC.... Mile 6.... time to go home....or back to the College service
shop.
Got 6.4 miles... the ICE never rotated. The NiMH is fully charged when we
get back.. the charger has spooled down...No errors... Wow we just added
about trippled the total EV only range a Prius has.
Not bad for run #2, and about 24 hours of my time.
We plug in the DeltaQ. It makes bout 800 watts.. OK... but we don't want to
upset the carfull settings on the PFC30. This becomes the first mistake of
the day. We munch donuts and Coke.... Thanks guys!
The DQ gets hot.. we scrounge a fan.. still only 1100 watts. The crowd shows
up for the presentation... the DQ still is taking it's bloddy time.... It
just won't make solid big amps, it gets hot.... and won't drive the lead
over 240 volts... I suspect the "Engineering Unit ONLY" means it's set to
the wrong voltage... and there are other issues... Simple fact it can't fill
our pack, and in fact has not added more than about 500 watthours to the
pack since I did the last full power PFC30 backed charge over aday ago at
this point. The best guess is we traveled about 10 mile on EV only mode on
a single charge to the PbLa pack.. or something like 200 watt hours per
mile..
Clearly If I had wired the PFC to the lead pack and used the grid, we
would have gotten a full pack in about 90 minutes. Even off of 120VAC at 15
amps. Also.. the Pb pack had no Regs, No amps, No volts no SOC...not meteres
what so ever.. just a pair of DVMs and a lot of poking. NO BMS and no
meters. And they were on there 2 cycle in thier life... We could have had
much metter insturmentation. but... It worked any way...
So the PFC charge support from Grid to Add a pack works, The PFC from add a
pack to to Hybrid pack works... and Well What can I say??? It can be done
and has been done.
Now I need to add contactors to allow for auto switching from Grid to
add on pack, some logic to reprogram the charger's setpoint from one
chemistry to the other... and maybe ports so a custom Can view or rewrite of
the Toyota control can stear the charger... and some fuses and fans.. and
the one PFC series charger can do all 3 modes of power processing.
What I thought was a daunting computer hashing and Spoofing effort has
become a interesting way to make a Stock PFC30 charger make it all happen.
Clearly this kind of Plug In Hybrid system can be used on just about any
Hybrid, with a wildly varying Source pack.. the charger can boost of Buck
DC... You could have a 96 volt pack of floodeds charing a 360 volt pack of
Lions... Or a 360 volt pack of Lions charging a 218 volt pack of NiMH. It
doesn't really matter. Just adjust the target voltage right.. and you are
off.
Enough for now...I intend to have a Kit of everything you need including
Battery pack and mounting hardware, Cables and relays available for this.
The first effort will use Quality Hawker PbLa Batteries as the addon pack,
and it will be taylored to the Prius... for now.
I am Lusting over a Ford Escape Hybrid.. and the large Back trunk area and
heavy duty SUV springs that can hold a really significant pack. AnyBody want
to hand me a Escape Hybrid??? I got to drive Randy Brooks new one, I am in
Lust.!!! 500 lbs of Lion back there??? Ev all the way to Wenatchee...from
Seattle. Got room for Skiis and a couple Dozzen PFC cases can be kept out
of the rain on the commute from Portland to Seattle.
Dizzy... Madman
Need sleep... Need to ship those Green boxes......
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Unfortunatly I have not gotten around to building my one EV
conversion. I don't have the time, resources, man power, or
sufficient knowledge to do so. So I am going to dive in an purchase a
hybrid. I am considering purchasing a 2006 Toyota Prius, and I am
wondering if anyone here as any advice for me. Maybe the Prius is not
the best way to go, but I don't know. Any advice would be appreciated
and helpful links to articles, personal experiences, or any other
relevant knowledge would be useful.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, great to hear of your success. Too bad for CalCars hardware.
Any idea how much power your pfc eats shuttling current in either
direction?
Did you ever notice how much or how often the prius pack blower came
on during your testing?? This is incredibly important. They get too
hot and they die.
Great story Rich!!
Mike
PS I didn't know you used a spell chekker before ;)
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sorry Rod, But I am Hijacking this thread to the SEVA list and to
the Main
> EVlist.
> Madman
>
> Warning... no time to spell check... phone ringing...
>
> In the last couple of Days like since Sunday... I have had my hands in
> Ryan's Pirus pretty deeply.
>
> First I will be up in PT for sure with Ryan... I just did about 250
miles in
> it, In a Ride over to Wenatchee and back. So.. I am getting some
hands on
> time with the PiPrius.
>
> First the Calcars system, One didn't work as it came back from
California...
> And actualy ate it self for dinner about last Wensday. The contactors
> actaully left the running System totally disconnected from both
packs for a
> Brief instant.. and things smoked and failed. Ryan got it running
again as a
> normal Prius after pulling some fuses and resetting suff. Lucky him.
>
> About that time I was asked if we could try my idea of using a PFC30
> charger as a buffer DC/DC converter to pull from the Add a Pack and then
> charge the Prius's NiMH pack, Being very carfull to not over voltage the
> Spendy NiMH. OK .. that's just what my chargers do very well. They
have a
> pretty solid and adjustable voltage regulation setting. We just
needed to
> find the Right voltage and current to NOT hurt Mr. Toyota Nice Idea...
> wonder if it works. Sunday I found Ryan and his 100 mpg Prius in my
shop...
> Lets find out shall we?? OK..er... I hope I don't hurt What I can't fix.
> I dicharged the 20 amphour at 228 volt pack of B&B AGMs, I got 2700
> watt hours on the first pass. And recharged them with a PFC30 to 280
volts.
> (14.73 volts) They took power very well, and we did not let them
taper below
> about 5 amps... they are new and show "Growth" at the end of a
charge cycle
> by not tapering off fast. They just take it and take it..... I lost
> patientece.. and we went to the next step.
> I fed the PFC30 from the PbLa pack.. without any issues... Ok folks
> that't the first time I have officially run one of my chargers off
of DC,
> and Well it all worked. I even manged to open the AC rated breaker
on 218
> voltd DC.. that makes a Loud POP, with Blue stuff leaking out of the
breaker
> case... 36 DC feed amp IS more than a 30 amp Beaker can stand for
about 5
> minutes... abit of excitment.. No damage... Lots'O pucker factor.. This
> output was stuffed in my loadbank with our 15kw Windloader. OK.. all
works
> as planned on the test bench. Now out to the Pirius. First we
dailed in the
> best guess voltage the Prius's NiMH pack would want to see as the output
> limit on the PFC charger. We picked 242 from watching the CAN buss
Scanner
> that Ryan has installed on the Prius.
> We ripped oout all the "other" circuits and spoofing controls and
> contactors and anything that waws not stock Toyota. All the Calcars
stuff
> that was in the Prius from the Make magazine install was taken out.
We left
> the prototype DeltaQ charger in and the Battery pack of course. So
.. there
> is LOTS Of room behind the pack that was stuffed full of circuit
boards and
> contactors and such.
>
> And we simply wired the output of the PFC30 to the NiMH pack.
and wired
> the AC input of the PFC30 to the 218 volt Lead acid add on pack....and
> flipped the breaker on the charger.
> All fired up, Then we dailed in some amps while watching the volts
display
> on the Can View that is being piped to the Main Prius display screen.
> The volts came up, the SOC came up... Just as planned... Then we took a
> ride....
> It was that simple...
> Prius Plug in Hybrid... Working... After a LOT of fear and testing.. it
> really was that simple.
>
> The tuning part of getting the charge computer to keep the ICE
engine off,
> that took a little more tweaking. We adjusted the charge voltage down to
> about 234, and the current up to max. and it worked better, But the SOC
> would drift up too far and the engine would kick on to drop the pack
back
> down, thinking it had over charged the NiMH, Then we would turn off the
> charger, and the SOC would drift dwon until the ICE came on to
restore the
> pack. Well OK this is what you would exxpect for about 10 minutes of
> practice.... We upped the voltage to 237, and used the Accelerator
harder
> when the SOC drifted up too much, and clearly we needed more
Learning time.
> This ended at about 10:30 PM Sunday.
> Day one.. success... no smoke, and we can really charge the NiMH
from the
> PbLA... and keep it all under control.
>
> Day two.. I am on the 7:10 am Ferry heading to Steve Lough's place
to hook
> up with Ryan... and his trusty PFC30 enhanced Prius. We are going to
> Wenatchee, Wa on the other side of the Cascades to give a Ride and
PiP Show
> for the Chelan county Dept of comerce and the Wenatche PUD, at the
Wenatche
> Valley college. Cool ....And of course we ..er I needed as much time as
> possible tweaking the "Sytem"...
> Got there it was snowing like Heck up in Stevens pass.. 4000 Ft mountain
> passes... not a real good mile per Gallon number... and while
Regening down
> the East slopes... Not enough room to store many Kwhr of power... 5
amphrs
> of NiMH is NOT a really big storage bank... Hummm new Mode of
charger...suck
> from NiMH and recharge the PbLa... Need more contactors... But ...
not while
> under way.
> First thing is to get the Pb recharged.. OK that's what we are
going to
> us the DeltaQ for, It's installed, and Well it gets to do grid work
while
> the PFC does the big current chores that it is buildt for.
> We can't get more than about 2 amps into the pack..OK we be
charged!......or
> so we thought...
>
> We back out into the Windy sunny East slope spring Day, Wow this
place
> is Stunningly beautifull. Where's the wind farm when you need it? Better
> than that.. The Chelan county PUD has 4 Hydro plants , 2 on the main
> Columbia River.. the high drop from Lake Chelan to the River... 100
of ft
> of drop...And one other that is pretty amazing on the upper end of
the lake
> serving..Stehikin. And well it's been a heavy snow year.. and they just
> can't sell all they can make... in fact they have water going over
the tops
> of dams.. and the main big feed from the pac NW to California is at
> capacity... They have Get this residentail goes for 2.8 Cents a
Kwhr, and
> comercial is at 1.8 cents. Can you say a EVers Dream!! That a half
cent
> for a mile in my EVs. Drooooool!!!
>
> We found a empty parking lot and started doing laps... mile one...
no ICE.
> Mile two No ice... had to turn down the volts.. and Maxed out the PFC30s
> currrent... Mile 3... charger actually starts to ramp the fans up...
Mile 4
> the charger is clearly giving us more range... Fans are getting to full
> power.... Mile 5.. SNAP!.. opened the 30 amp breaker again... with a
36 amp
> draw. Reset breaker... turned PFC down to about %75... As the SOC
rises...
> we turn the PFC current to 0... as the SOC Fall below about 55% we
repower
> up the PFC.... Mile 6.... time to go home....or back to the College
service
> shop.
>
> Got 6.4 miles... the ICE never rotated. The NiMH is fully charged
when we
> get back.. the charger has spooled down...No errors... Wow we just added
> about trippled the total EV only range a Prius has.
> Not bad for run #2, and about 24 hours of my time.
>
> We plug in the DeltaQ. It makes bout 800 watts.. OK... but we don't
want to
> upset the carfull settings on the PFC30. This becomes the first
mistake of
> the day. We munch donuts and Coke.... Thanks guys!
> The DQ gets hot.. we scrounge a fan.. still only 1100 watts. The
crowd shows
> up for the presentation... the DQ still is taking it's bloddy
time.... It
> just won't make solid big amps, it gets hot.... and won't drive the lead
> over 240 volts... I suspect the "Engineering Unit ONLY" means it's
set to
> the wrong voltage... and there are other issues... Simple fact it
can't fill
> our pack, and in fact has not added more than about 500 watthours to the
> pack since I did the last full power PFC30 backed charge over aday
ago at
> this point. The best guess is we traveled about 10 mile on EV only
mode on
> a single charge to the PbLa pack.. or something like 200 watt hours per
> mile..
> Clearly If I had wired the PFC to the lead pack and used the
grid, we
> would have gotten a full pack in about 90 minutes. Even off of
120VAC at 15
> amps. Also.. the Pb pack had no Regs, No amps, No volts no SOC...not
meteres
> what so ever.. just a pair of DVMs and a lot of poking. NO BMS and no
> meters. And they were on there 2 cycle in thier life... We could
have had
> much metter insturmentation. but... It worked any way...
>
> So the PFC charge support from Grid to Add a pack works, The PFC
from add a
> pack to to Hybrid pack works... and Well What can I say??? It can be
done
> and has been done.
>
> Now I need to add contactors to allow for auto switching from
Grid to
> add on pack, some logic to reprogram the charger's setpoint from one
> chemistry to the other... and maybe ports so a custom Can view or
rewrite of
> the Toyota control can stear the charger... and some fuses and
fans.. and
> the one PFC series charger can do all 3 modes of power processing.
>
> What I thought was a daunting computer hashing and Spoofing effort has
> become a interesting way to make a Stock PFC30 charger make it all
happen.
> Clearly this kind of Plug In Hybrid system can be used on just about any
> Hybrid, with a wildly varying Source pack.. the charger can boost of
Buck
> DC... You could have a 96 volt pack of floodeds charing a 360 volt
pack of
> Lions... Or a 360 volt pack of Lions charging a 218 volt pack of
NiMH. It
> doesn't really matter. Just adjust the target voltage right.. and
you are
> off.
>
> Enough for now...I intend to have a Kit of everything you need including
> Battery pack and mounting hardware, Cables and relays available for
this.
> The first effort will use Quality Hawker PbLa Batteries as the addon
pack,
> and it will be taylored to the Prius... for now.
>
> I am Lusting over a Ford Escape Hybrid.. and the large Back trunk
area and
> heavy duty SUV springs that can hold a really significant pack.
AnyBody want
> to hand me a Escape Hybrid??? I got to drive Randy Brooks new one, I
am in
> Lust.!!! 500 lbs of Lion back there??? Ev all the way to
Wenatchee...from
> Seattle. Got room for Skiis and a couple Dozzen PFC cases can be
kept out
> of the rain on the commute from Portland to Seattle.
>
> Dizzy... Madman
> Need sleep... Need to ship those Green boxes......
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich,
Could the same logic apply to using your charger with it's
new logic to charge an EVs battery pack at x voltage from a
variable DC source such as wind or solar?
I could go for that. And one for my Prius. Or come to think
of it both at the same time. Charge the Add On Pack from
Solar Panels directly instead of the grid.
Watcha think?
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What I thought was a daunting computer hashing and
> Spoofing effort has
> become a interesting way to make a Stock PFC30 charger
> make it all happen.
> Clearly this kind of Plug In Hybrid system can be used on
> just about any
> Hybrid, with a wildly varying Source pack.. the charger
> can boost of Buck
> DC... You could have a 96 volt pack of floodeds charing a
> 360 volt pack of
> Lions... Or a 360 volt pack of Lions charging a 218 volt
> pack of NiMH. It
> doesn't really matter. Just adjust the target voltage
> right.. and you are
> off.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
