EV Digest 5484
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Vectrix
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: $67K for a RAV4 EV?!
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: EV / Hybrid Question
by "george.underwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: EV / Hybrid Question
by "Dave Roekle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: RAV4 EV battery pack on E bay
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Vectrix
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) My Electric Rates Doubled so I Bought Half a Car
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Vectrix
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: My Electric Rates Doubled so I Bought Half a Car
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: EV / Hybrid Question
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: EV / Hybrid Question
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV / Hybrid Question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: WarP motor color, was: Welding on WarP 9 Motor Housing
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV / Hybrid Question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: EV Batteries
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: A Wild Ride in the Zombie and Burnouts Galore
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Vectrix
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV Batteries
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Vectrix
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Vectrix
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Motor Temp
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Vectrix
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) NEDRA High Voltage Nationals and Power of DC
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Vectrix
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: EV Batteries
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> > What I'd like to know is where did they get large-capacity NiMH cells
> > - I thought no-one was currently licensed to make them...or has that
> > changed?
>
> Vectrix gets them from Gold Peak in China. They are 30Ah NiMH
batteries.
> And yes, contrary to popular misconception, there is one -- and I
believe
> only one -- NiMH battery manufacturer which is actually permitted to
produce
> large-format NiMH batteries for BEVs sold in the US market under license
> from Cobasys, and that is Gold Peak.
<serious snippage>
> Well, that's a long answer to a short question, but it's a complex
subject.
> Hope that helps to explain it.
>
> Charles Whalen
> Delray Beach, FL
>
Wow! Thanks for the patent lesson - I only knew that Chevron was in
charge nowadays. Certainly makes you glad lithium chemistries are
being actively developed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Edward Kellogg posted:
> On May 1, 2006, at 7:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> > ViewItem&item=4633576306
>
> Are you trying to insinuate something? It could just be that the
> interested parties only use ebay occasionally, for something important.
I'll take a stab at what this cryptic message probably means.
Someone had posted a comment that said something like "notice how all
the top bidders had very low amounts of feedback". I thought the
same thing, in fact they probably became new members of eBay just so
they could bid on the RAV4.
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You would have to raise the vehicle several inches to get clearance and
spring travel. Might look funny and not handle well on curves due to raising
center of gravity. Also, dragging around that engine and all the accessory
weight (along with a tank of gas) would require even more batteries = vry
heavy weight. Doesn't sound practical to me.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Roekle
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:39 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: EV / Hybrid Question
I have a 1995 Ford Windstar with a 3.8 litre V-6 engine. Since this is a FWD
vehicle I am thinking about replacing the rear axle assembly with a complete
rear-end from a Ford truck or other passenger car and connecting an electric
drive motor with controller to this rear-end via a drive shaft. I am
thinking that driving around town I can utilize the electric rear drive
motor and leave the gasoline engine running in neutral, in the idle mode for
P/S, P/B, A/C, Alternator, etc. and use the electric motor for the drive
motor. If I want to go on the freeway, I would switch off the electric motor
and use the gasoline motor. Do you think something like this is feasible?
What would you recommend?
Thanks,
Dave Roekle
951-278-2370
951-278-2886 Fax
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for you response.
I figured that with everything it would weigh in at about 5200 lbs, vs the
current weight of 3800 lbs.
I am really wanting to do an EV, but I still want my "creature comforts" --
A/C, P/S, P/B, etc. I live in So. Cal and it gets too hot in the summertime
to drive around without A/C.
I thought the Windstar would be a reasonable choice since it has lots of
room in the middle and rear of the vehicle for batteries.
You're right, I would have to raise it up some, but I'm not too sure how
much. Heavy duty leaf springs in the rear could replace the coil springs.
Also I can run the electric motor just on the rear-end/differential with
some type of clutch to disengage the motor when using the ICE.
Just thinking about some way to make something work.
Dave Roekle
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of george.underwood
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 8:38 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: EV / Hybrid Question
You would have to raise the vehicle several inches to get clearance and
spring travel. Might look funny and not handle well on curves due to raising
center of gravity. Also, dragging around that engine and all the accessory
weight (along with a tank of gas) would require even more batteries = vry
heavy weight. Doesn't sound practical to me.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Roekle
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:39 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: EV / Hybrid Question
I have a 1995 Ford Windstar with a 3.8 litre V-6 engine. Since this is a FWD
vehicle I am thinking about replacing the rear axle assembly with a complete
rear-end from a Ford truck or other passenger car and connecting an electric
drive motor with controller to this rear-end via a drive shaft. I am
thinking that driving around town I can utilize the electric rear drive
motor and leave the gasoline engine running in neutral, in the idle mode for
P/S, P/B, A/C, Alternator, etc. and use the electric motor for the drive
motor. If I want to go on the freeway, I would switch off the electric motor
and use the gasoline motor. Do you think something like this is feasible?
What would you recommend?
Thanks,
Dave Roekle
951-278-2370
951-278-2886 Fax
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
He has been trying to sell these batteries for ages.
The 16 available are too few for a full pack and
the extravagant price makes everyone reconsider if
they really want to have one of these, as you can buy
this amount of capacity for 10% of that price with
only a factor 2 size and weight penalty and going for
Lithium will likely be lighter/smaller for the same price.
My 110Ah AGM batteries are twice as wide but not as long as
these cells, so they are not even twice the size for more
capacity. They were $85 shipped to my front door.
They come in virtually unlimited quantities, no need to
worry about how to get my next pack.
YMMV.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of jerryd
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 5:33 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RAV4 EV battery pack on E bay
Hi All,
This just came over another list which I think
is a RAV4 battery pack some of you might be interested in.
Item #4638703304
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Battery-Panasonic-C-3-M-95-Rav4-EV-
Rav4_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ111103QQitemZ4638703304QQrdZ1QQsspagena
meZWDVW
Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, May 15, 2006 at 11:28:47PM -0400, Charles Whalen wrote:
> On Sunday, May 14, 2006 10:32 PM, Cowtown wrote:
> >
> >What I'd like to know is where did they get large-capacity NiMH cells
> >- I thought no-one was currently licensed to make them...or has that
> >changed?
>
<..snip..>
> ... There is only one small exception to that,
> specifically in the case of Panasonic, which came out of the patent
> infringement lawsuit that Panasonic lost to Cobasys in an international
> court of arbitration in June 2004. In that June 2004 judgment, and as
> subsequently amended in July 2005, Panasonic is permitted to manufacture new
> EV-95 95Ah NiMH batteries solely for existing Toyota RAV-EVs that experience
> battery failures, under warranty, and only under warranty, until the last of
> those warranties expire, on September 14, 2008, at which time Panasonic is
> no longer permitted to produce *any* EV-95 batteries or any NiMH battery
> with a capacity greater than 10Ah until January 1, 2015.
Wow.
I hope we have a Liion upgrade for the RAV4EV ready for when these packs start
getting tired and the warranties are out.
Speaking of which, How far would a RAV with Lithium go?
Has anybody tried a non-stock pack in there RAV yet? Did it work?
> Well, that's a long answer to a short question, but it's a complex subject.
> Hope that helps to explain it.
Yea, thanks for the extremely detailed and informative post!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
See www.bestmag.co.uk for my article in the April 06 (or spring issue in
print) page 107 on the electric Cushman. Also see the Vancouver EVent in the
January 06' issue.
I weighed my doors last night and they were 50 lbs each. I'm not sure though
if it's worth the $400 to replace with jeep doors to save about 80 lbs on a
2100 lb vehicle, probably wouldn't improve range more than a fraction of a
mile. I tried 90psi trailer 3.5" wide tires 12" rims instead of the p135r12
4.5" wide radials at 45psi and drove 20 miles each time. The radials used 9kwh
and the trailer tires got 9.2kwh. I would have thought that the harder skinner
tires would have used less electricity but the radials were actually better at
the lower psi. The 14" Insight rims don't look like they'd fit but they
(Bridgstone Portenza) certainly would have a better LRR.
Best Regards, Mark
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 16 May 2006 at 2:13, Nick Austin wrote:
> I hope we have a Liion upgrade for the RAV4EV ready for when these packs start
> getting tired and the warranties are out.
I suspect that at least some of those now buying these RAVs at stratospheric
prices will abandon them if or when they find that they can no longer take
them to the local dealer for service, but (like most of us!) have to fix the
problems themselves.
OTOH, it's possible that someone will figure out how to reverse-engineer the
RAV's control software, just as some clever folks have doped out how to fool
the Prius into accepting a larger onboard battery. Something similar seems
to have happened with the USE conversions using long-unsupported Hughes
drive systems. Maybe such a person or group will form an enterprise to
continue supporting the RAVs, at least in the regions where they're most
concentrated, when Toyota leaves them twisting in the wind.
I really hope that happens. If not - well, look at it this way, at least
that will provide a nice field of reasonably-priced gliders for us EV
hobbyists to re-convert with open-source components.
Keep your fingers crossed for these folks!
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
You are really close to the edge there. Is there no way at all to get more
energy storage onboard?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 15 May 2006 at 23:38, george.underwood wrote:
> You would have to raise the vehicle ... vry heavy
> weight ... Doesn't sound practical to me.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dave Roekle
>
> I have a 1995 Ford Windstar with a 3.8 litre V-6 engine. Since this is a FWD
> vehicle I am thinking about replacing the rear axle assembly with a complete
> rear-end from a Ford truck or other passenger car and connecting an electric
> drive motor with controller to this rear-end via a drive shaft.
I don't think it's quite that bad, as long as you're willing to accept
limited EV range and performance.
I can think of some challenges (and others may think of more). With the
typical series DC motor, you'd need a pretty low rear end (high numerical
ratio, around 6:1 or more) to get motor RPM into a reasonable range. If you
could find one of the old, big, heavy, slow-speed GE series motors, that
would make it easier.
I don't see any need for a clutch to disengage the motor; just let it
freewheel. If you used a separately-excited DC motor instead of series, or
even an EV type AC motor and inverter ($$$$$), you could get regenerative
braking when you slowed down.
I'd guess that you could get perhaps 20-30 miles of EV range with battery
weight of about 25% to 30% of vehicle weight (I'm guessing that would be
1000 - 1500 lb of lead). That might be ample range, depending on what you
want to do, because when the battery went flat you could just let the ICE
take over.
It wouldn't be much of a racer in EV mode. Unless the controller had a
pretty high current limit, with no transmission, acceleration would be on
the sluggish side, and top speed would be limited by available hp.
Another downside is that I don't think idling is very efficient for gasoline
engines. But here's a thought; since you're going to idle the engine anyway
(which will keep the ICE's automatic transmission alive) you could use the
engine when you needed brisk acceleration, then back off and run on battery
power. (Just what you needed, two accelerators. ;-) You'd have a rather
crude but usable quasi-hybrid, on the model espoused by some US automakers
(a "through the road" hybrid).
If you did *all* your accelerating with the ICE and just used the (series)
motor to cruise, setting it up so that its nominal RPM was a typical
cruising speed, you could use a simple controller, such as a 2-step
contactor controlller - or even none at all, just a contactor. Heck, with a
sep-ex motor, you could control speed with field current control, which is
much easier than the armature control required of a series motor.
Overall, the van would probably use more energy than before because of the
weight gain. This would hurt most on long trips, where the EV mode would
be mostly useless. But if you principally used the van in town, you'd
transfer some of your energy use from gasoline to (possibly slightly
cheaper, probably cleaner) electricity. Electricity is cheaper per kWh, but
don't forget to count battery amortization in your running expenses.
What am I forgetting here, gang?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm gathering that you've found a nifty place in the
Windstar for batteries; perhaps 1/2-way through the
floor, 1/2-way protruding into passenger space?
Most EVs are manual-tranny. Are you welding up the
torque converter or somesuch?
Regarding A/C, I merely installed a sunroof and window
tinting. Between reflection and convection, it seems
to be fine, despite days in Oregon summers that can
easily get to 105 F.
Good luck with your project.
--- Dave Roekle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks for you response.
>
> I figured that with everything it would weigh in at
> about 5200 lbs, vs the
> current weight of 3800 lbs.
>
> I am really wanting to do an EV, but I still want my
> "creature comforts" --
> A/C, P/S, P/B, etc. I live in So. Cal and it gets
> too hot in the summertime
> to drive around without A/C.
>
> I thought the Windstar would be a reasonable choice
> since it has lots of
> room in the middle and rear of the vehicle for
> batteries.
>
> You're right, I would have to raise it up some, but
> I'm not too sure how
> much. Heavy duty leaf springs in the rear could
> replace the coil springs.
>
> Also I can run the electric motor just on the
> rear-end/differential with
> some type of clutch to disengage the motor when
> using the ICE.
>
> Just thinking about some way to make something work.
>
> Dave Roekle
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of george.underwood
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 8:38 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: EV / Hybrid Question
>
> You would have to raise the vehicle several inches
> to get clearance and
> spring travel. Might look funny and not handle well
> on curves due to raising
> center of gravity. Also, dragging around that engine
> and all the accessory
> weight (along with a tank of gas) would require even
> more batteries = vry
> heavy weight. Doesn't sound practical to me.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dave Roekle
> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:39 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: EV / Hybrid Question
>
> I have a 1995 Ford Windstar with a 3.8 litre V-6
> engine. Since this is a FWD
> vehicle I am thinking about replacing the rear axle
> assembly with a complete
> rear-end from a Ford truck or other passenger car
> and connecting an electric
> drive motor with controller to this rear-end via a
> drive shaft. I am
> thinking that driving around town I can utilize the
> electric rear drive
> motor and leave the gasoline engine running in
> neutral, in the idle mode for
> P/S, P/B, A/C, Alternator, etc. and use the electric
> motor for the drive
> motor. If I want to go on the freeway, I would
> switch off the electric motor
> and use the gasoline motor. Do you think something
> like this is feasible?
> What would you recommend?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Dave Roekle
> 951-278-2370
> 951-278-2886 Fax
>
>
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "george.underwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 9:38 PM
Subject: RE: EV / Hybrid Question
> You would have to raise the vehicle several inches to get clearance and
> spring travel. Might look funny and not handle well on curves due to
> raising
> center of gravity. Also, dragging around that engine and all the accessory
> weight (along with a tank of gas) would require even more batteries = vry
> heavy weight. Doesn't sound practical to me.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dave Roekle
> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:39 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: EV / Hybrid Question
>
> I have a 1995 Ford Windstar with a 3.8 litre V-6 engine. Since this is a
> FWD
> vehicle I am thinking about replacing the rear axle assembly with a
> complete
> rear-end from a Ford truck or other passenger car and connecting an
> electric
> drive motor with controller to this rear-end via a drive shaft. I am
> thinking that driving around town I can utilize the electric rear drive
> motor and leave the gasoline engine running in neutral, in the idle mode
> for
> P/S, P/B, A/C, Alternator, etc. and use the electric motor for the drive
> motor. If I want to go on the freeway, I would switch off the electric
> motor
> and use the gasoline motor. Do you think something like this is feasible?
> What would you recommend?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Dave Roekle
> 951-278-2370
> 951-278-2886 Fax
>
Hello Dave,
There should be rubber stops on the suspension system, that will keep the
vehicle from going any lower. My 1977 El Camino which weighs 6840 lbs can
be lower by 4 inches to these stops.
I can raise it one to four inches above these stops with a on board air
control. It rides just fine at 1 inch like a low rider. You can make it
lean into the corners by controlling side to side or even front to back.
I use a ShockWave Air Ride Unit. It replaces the stock springs and shocks.
It is very common to used this type of system in the very large pickups so
as to make it a better ride when there is no cargo.
Make sure your axle bearings have a outer in inner race and be able to
withstand the weight and thrust or your axles will wear out in with 5000
miles.
For a source of supply for these systems is from Air Ride Technologies.
www.ridetech.com
For axle, chassis and driveline components. www.markwilliams.com
Roland
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Also, anyone know the exact color match for the WarP red they put on
those
things. The Ford Red has a slight orange'ish tint.
I'm finding out - I'll let you know when I do.
NetGain got back with me. The 50 gallon container just says "Bright
Red" on it. If you need just a small quantity for touch-up, a small
vial could probably be obtained. If the demand is there, it is possible
pint-purchases could be arranged. The other alternatives are purchasing
a 50 gallon container (hehe :)), or trying to match the color at a paint
store.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Roekle wrote:
> 1995 Ford Windstar... replace rear axle with a complete rear-end from
> a Ford truck or other passenger car and connecting an electric motor
> via a drive shaft... around town I can utilize electric drive and
> leave the gasoline engine running in neutral for P/S, P/B, A/C,
> Alternator, etc. If I want to go on the freeway, I would switch off
> the electric motor and use the gasoline motor. Do you think something
> like this is feasible?
1. Does the Windstar come in a 4WD version? If so, look at how they
added the powered rear axle. It would be easiest to use these parts.
If there is no 4WD version, there may not be room for a solid rear
axle or drive shaft. For instance, they may have put the gas tank
between the rear wheels and used trailing arm suspension, or a
solid axle that jogs down in the center portion to provide clearance.
If this is the case, you may want to use hydraulic wheel motors at
each rear wheel. They take almost no room and need no gear reducers.
The electric motor drives a hydraulic pump to run the wheel motors.
These are standard fork lift parts. The main drawback is that the
hydraulic pump/motor costs you 10-20% efficiency.
> I figured that with everything it would weigh in at about 5200 lbs,
> vs the current weight of 3800 lbs.
What is the Windstar's GVWR? If its curb weight is 3800 lbs, I'd be
surprised if its GVWR was over 4800 lbs. That limits the battery weight
you can add, and thus the pure electric range.
What is the smallest engine that was available for the Windstars? If you
have the electric drive, you'll need less HP from the ICE, and can use a
smaller, more economical, lighter engine. This is the route taken by all
the hybrids.
> I thought the Windstar would be a reasonable choice since it has lots of
> room in the middle and rear of the vehicle for batteries.
Batteries tend to be dense and heavy, but don't really take a lot of
cubic feet. 1000 lbs of lead-acid batteries only occupies about 7 cubic
feet.
> Also I can run the electric motor just on the rear-end/differential with
> some type of clutch to disengage the motor when using the ICE.
You won't need to disengage the electric motor, unless you gear it so
low that it will be spinning faster than its maximum rated rpm at
highway speeds.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jerry, it has been a year now, and the batteries are working out quite
well. I do not have any individual regulators, just the PFC-30 charger. I
checked the balance last month and they were most within 0.02 of a volt of
the average. There are two batteries within 0.1 volt of the average, so I
just supplemental charge these ones. I keep a log of battery
voltages/temperatures and none have shown themselves to be "bad apples" yet.
I like these batteries as I did not need to purchase any balancing
equipment. The only drawback is that they only deliver a max current of 250
Amps. But at 326 Volts, the max 200-250 Amps is more than enough to give
the car good performance for commuting.
It turns out I do not drive to work each day, so I have only been driving it
about twice a week. I am dissapointed on how the E-Meter drains accessory
batteries, so I have to unplug the accessory battery after each drive.
That's about it!
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: jerry halstead
Sent: May 16, 2006 4:51 AM
To: Don Cameron
Subject: EV Batteries
Hi Don,
Ran across your entry/website in the EVAlbum in my search for
batteries and was wondering how the Deka batteries are working out?
I need to pick out batteries for my EV and the Deka/MK gels is looking like
a good choice for my short commute.
Do you have any individual battery control monitor/bypasses (i.e.
rudman regulators) or does it only use the charger?
Thanks for any info you can share.
-Jerry
Jerry Halstead
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi guys,
Chip emailed me those pics last night. I've posted them here...
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/resource.asp?
func=display&resid=1267&tree=564&thumb=1
-Dave
http://megawattmotorworks.com
On May 15, 2006, at 3:24 PM, Chip Gribben wrote:
[snip]
I'll have pictures up of some of the highlights of the day,
particularly the burnouts, on the NEDRA site later this evening. A
larger album of pictures will be on the MegawattMotorworks.com site
once I send them to Dave Stensland.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm new to the list and will plead ignorance ... are the motors in the
RAV, and Insight AC or DC? I'm curious as to the direction industry is
leaning with respect to which technology holds the most promise.
Thanks,
Ralph.
(da list newbie)
David Roden wrote:
On 16 May 2006 at 2:13, Nick Austin wrote:
I hope we have a Liion upgrade for the RAV4EV ready for when these packs start
getting tired and the warranties are out.
I suspect that at least some of those now buying these RAVs at stratospheric
prices will abandon them if or when they find that they can no longer take
them to the local dealer for service, but (like most of us!) have to fix the
problems themselves.
OTOH, it's possible that someone will figure out how to reverse-engineer the
RAV's control software, just as some clever folks have doped out how to fool
the Prius into accepting a larger onboard battery. Something similar seems
to have happened with the USE conversions using long-unsupported Hughes
drive systems. Maybe such a person or group will form an enterprise to
continue supporting the RAVs, at least in the regions where they're most
concentrated, when Toyota leaves them twisting in the wind.
I really hope that happens. If not - well, look at it this way, at least
that will provide a nice field of reasonably-priced gliders for us EV
hobbyists to re-convert with open-source components.
Keep your fingers crossed for these folks!
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don,
On your Emeter. It it the dc-dc suppling the Emeter that is draining
the 12v acc batt or the Emeter itself? I've not measured the idle
current on mine.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Jerry, it has been a year now, and the batteries are working out
quite
> well. I do not have any individual regulators, just the PFC-30
charger. I
> checked the balance last month and they were most within 0.02 of a
volt of
> the average. There are two batteries within 0.1 volt of the
average, so I
> just supplemental charge these ones. I keep a log of battery
> voltages/temperatures and none have shown themselves to be "bad
apples" yet.
>
> I like these batteries as I did not need to purchase any balancing
> equipment. The only drawback is that they only deliver a max
current of 250
> Amps. But at 326 Volts, the max 200-250 Amps is more than enough to
give
> the car good performance for commuting.
>
> It turns out I do not drive to work each day, so I have only been
driving it
> about twice a week. I am dissapointed on how the E-Meter drains
accessory
> batteries, so I have to unplug the accessory battery after each drive.
>
> That's about it!
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jerry halstead
> Sent: May 16, 2006 4:51 AM
> To: Don Cameron
> Subject: EV Batteries
>
> Hi Don,
>
> Ran across your entry/website in the EVAlbum in my search for
> batteries and was wondering how the Deka batteries are working out?
> I need to pick out batteries for my EV and the Deka/MK gels is
looking like
> a good choice for my short commute.
>
> Do you have any individual battery control monitor/bypasses (i.e.
> rudman regulators) or does it only use the charger?
>
> Thanks for any info you can share.
>
> -Jerry
>
> Jerry Halstead
> http://www.evconvert.com/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bet the BMS would be the tough part in adding Lithium to a Rav.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Mon, May 15, 2006 at 11:28:47PM -0400, Charles Whalen wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 14, 2006 10:32 PM, Cowtown wrote:
> > >
> > >What I'd like to know is where did they get large-capacity NiMH cells
> > >- I thought no-one was currently licensed to make them...or has that
> > >changed?
> >
>
> <..snip..>
>
> > ... There is only one small exception to that,
> > specifically in the case of Panasonic, which came out of the patent
> > infringement lawsuit that Panasonic lost to Cobasys in an
international
> > court of arbitration in June 2004. In that June 2004 judgment, and as
> > subsequently amended in July 2005, Panasonic is permitted to
manufacture new
> > EV-95 95Ah NiMH batteries solely for existing Toyota RAV-EVs that
experience
> > battery failures, under warranty, and only under warranty, until
the last of
> > those warranties expire, on September 14, 2008, at which time
Panasonic is
> > no longer permitted to produce *any* EV-95 batteries or any NiMH
battery
> > with a capacity greater than 10Ah until January 1, 2015.
>
> Wow.
>
> I hope we have a Liion upgrade for the RAV4EV ready for when these
packs start
> getting tired and the warranties are out.
>
> Speaking of which, How far would a RAV with Lithium go?
>
> Has anybody tried a non-stock pack in there RAV yet? Did it work?
>
> > Well, that's a long answer to a short question, but it's a complex
subject.
> > Hope that helps to explain it.
>
> Yea, thanks for the extremely detailed and informative post!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just converted the 4800 Euro's to USD listed in the description.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Not sure where he got that price from, unless he means the net price
after
> federal tax credits, but that bill is still working its way through
Congress
> and hasn't been signed into law yet. Vectrix's US MSRP is expected
to be
> closer to $8,000, which is about $1,500 more than comparable 400-600cc
> gas-powered maxi-scooters (all of which, by the way, are
considerably slower
> than Vectrix in acceleration). Existing tax regulations give a $4,000
> federal tax credit for the purchase of new BEVs but are limited to
4-wheeled
> BEVs only and don't provide any incentives for 2-wheeled BEVs. Current
> legislation before Congress would extend the federal tax credit for
BEVs to
> 2-wheeled BEVs such as the Vectrix maxi-scooter but a reduced level of
> $2,000. If passed, this would bring the effective net price for the
Vectrix
> maxi-scooter down to around $6,000 in the US.
>
> Charles Whalen
>
>
> On Monday, May 15, 2006 10:55 AM, Mike Phillips wrote:
>
>
> > About $6200usd. I like the specs. It would fit my commute lifestyle
> > very well.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <ev@> wrote:
> >>
> >> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/765 Seems it is no longer vaporware.
> >> Lawrence Rhodes
> >> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> >> Reedmaker
> >> Book 4/5 doubler
> >> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> >> Vegetable Oil Car.
> >> 415-821-3519
> >> primobassoon@
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I was curious about my motor operating at 100C (212F) case temp after 1 hour
of operation. It was rewound by Warfield class-H insulation 180C but the field
is original. It's a 36V Schaef 6.7" ADC knockoff used in my 2100lb 72V
Cushman. It has a vane fan at one end and was curious if there's a way to
improve efficiency or if it's worth putting on a cooling blower. What's the
general motor case temp of a similar motor in a similar application?
Thanks, Mark
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But then again, it would take far less cash to convert a 125 or 250cc
bike to an EV with Nimh.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Not sure where he got that price from, unless he means the net price
after
> federal tax credits, but that bill is still working its way through
Congress
> and hasn't been signed into law yet. Vectrix's US MSRP is expected
to be
> closer to $8,000, which is about $1,500 more than comparable 400-600cc
> gas-powered maxi-scooters (all of which, by the way, are
considerably slower
> than Vectrix in acceleration). Existing tax regulations give a $4,000
> federal tax credit for the purchase of new BEVs but are limited to
4-wheeled
> BEVs only and don't provide any incentives for 2-wheeled BEVs. Current
> legislation before Congress would extend the federal tax credit for
BEVs to
> 2-wheeled BEVs such as the Vectrix maxi-scooter but a reduced level of
> $2,000. If passed, this would bring the effective net price for the
Vectrix
> maxi-scooter down to around $6,000 in the US.
>
> Charles Whalen
>
>
> On Monday, May 15, 2006 10:55 AM, Mike Phillips wrote:
>
>
> > About $6200usd. I like the specs. It would fit my commute lifestyle
> > very well.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <ev@> wrote:
> >>
> >> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/765 Seems it is no longer vaporware.
> >> Lawrence Rhodes
> >> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> >> Reedmaker
> >> Book 4/5 doubler
> >> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> >> Vegetable Oil Car.
> >> 415-821-3519
> >> primobassoon@
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi gang,
Just put up some photos from the High Voltage Nationals.
Also information on the upcoming Power of DC June 4.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did anyone on the list get a ride? If so what are your thoughts? Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: Vectrix
You should be able to get one to your door in Texas hopefully sometime in
the next year to year and a half, based on the latest we've heard from
Vectrix. Vectrix brought two of their bikes to the Miami Beach Earth Expo
two weeks ago, gave test rides on Ocean Drive, set up their initial South
Florida dealer network, and gave us (in the Florida EAA) an update on
their
progress. In addition to their 18 existing prototype bikes, they started
their 50-bike pilot production run at their 30,000 sq.ft. New Bedford,
Massachusetts factory on May 1, which they will complete in two weeks.
They
are launching full production at their 32,000 sq.ft. Wroclaw, Poland
factory
in October at a rate of several hundred bikes per month. As they have
around 15,000 existing pre-production orders in Europe versus around 3,000
here in the US, the lion's share of the first year of production will be
committed to European order fulfillment but with a small share of bikes
coming off the Polish production line diverted to seeding the US market
and
beginning to fulfill orders here for early adopters on a
first-come/first-served basis, based on when US retail customers signed up
on Vectrix's pre-production order sign-up form on their website. Shipping
logistics have already been worked out and put in place. DOT and European
homologation have been completed. The US factory in New Bedford, MA
likely
won't be fired up until a year after the Polish plant is turned up, so
expect sometime in late 2007. If you signed up on Vectrix's US
pre-production order form on their website in 2004 to mid 2005, you can
expect to get your (Polish-assembled) bike in early-to-mid 2007.
Otherwise
you'll probably have to wait until late 2007 or early 2008 to get your
bike.
Charles Whalen
On Monday, May 15, 2006 6:51 AM, Mark Hastings wrote:
I just want to know how to get one to my door in texas. That would be
wonderful for my wifes commute and she really likes it. There seems to be
nothing else on two wheeled like that available that can go 55mph, or for
that matter three or four wheeled for a reasonable price.
Death to All Spammers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/765 Seems it is no longer vaporware.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The "main" DC-DC is integrated into the controller, it is on only when the
controller is on while driving. For the emeter, I have a little DC-DC from
the accessory battery to isolate the circuit. So it could be a combination
of the emeter and the little dc-dc.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: May 16, 2006 7:14 AM
To: Don Cameron
Subject: Re: EV Batteries
Don,
On your Emeter. It it the dc-dc suppling the Emeter that is draining the 12v
acc batt or the Emeter itself? I've not measured the idle current on mine.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Jerry, it has been a year now, and the batteries are working out
quite
> well. I do not have any individual regulators, just the PFC-30
charger. I
> checked the balance last month and they were most within 0.02 of a
volt of
> the average. There are two batteries within 0.1 volt of the
average, so I
> just supplemental charge these ones. I keep a log of battery
> voltages/temperatures and none have shown themselves to be "bad
apples" yet.
>
> I like these batteries as I did not need to purchase any balancing
> equipment. The only drawback is that they only deliver a max
current of 250
> Amps. But at 326 Volts, the max 200-250 Amps is more than enough to
give
> the car good performance for commuting.
>
> It turns out I do not drive to work each day, so I have only been
driving it
> about twice a week. I am dissapointed on how the E-Meter drains
accessory
> batteries, so I have to unplug the accessory battery after each drive.
>
> That's about it!
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jerry halstead
> Sent: May 16, 2006 4:51 AM
> To: Don Cameron
> Subject: EV Batteries
>
> Hi Don,
>
> Ran across your entry/website in the EVAlbum in my search for
> batteries and was wondering how the Deka batteries are working out?
> I need to pick out batteries for my EV and the Deka/MK gels is
looking like
> a good choice for my short commute.
>
> Do you have any individual battery control monitor/bypasses (i.e.
> rudman regulators) or does it only use the charger?
>
> Thanks for any info you can share.
>
> -Jerry
>
> Jerry Halstead
> http://www.evconvert.com/
>
--- End Message ---
