EV Digest 5489
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: AC vs. DC
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Looking for C or D size NiMh batteries
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: New Netgain TransWarp 11
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Subaru Conversion (was RE: AC vs. DC)
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: AC vs. DC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: AC vs. DC
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: AC vs. DC
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: PFC-30 question (in plain text this time)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: AC vs. DC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: AC vs. DC
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
11) Re: Whaddaya Call Them Springs?
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Whoops. Left the charger on
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: New Netgain TransWarp 11
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Auto tranny shift solenoid
by Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Brushless turnkey system available
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Looking for C or D size NiMh batteries
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) How to attach battery rack to firewall
by Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Brushless turnkey system available
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: "It's the Instrumentation, Jim"
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Whoops. Left the charger on
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: AC vs. DC
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Fw: Vectrix
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Checkit Wayland! Re:TdS Report #20: Photos - Solaqua Sound GEM
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) EV Copyright Infringement running rampant
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like a challenge!
Do you have a cost constraint?
You could do it. Travelling at high speed for a long time is going to chew
up loads of energy. You need somthing aerodynamic, light and also able to
haul some weight of batteries. I reackon RX7 series 2 and above. If you can
convert a series 6 onwards, then even better as they are even more
aerodynamic.
Don't go series 1 because they have drum brakes at the rear. And with the
weight of batteries you re carrying, not a good idea if you want to stop in
a hurry.
I guess your amp limit on the 110 AC power point is something like 20 amps.
So in 8 hours of charging you could theoretically pull 17600 Whrs.
So putting in a charger efficiency of 80% or maybe more, but i'll be
conservative. you'll get 14 kWhr at the batts. And energy efficiency of the
batts i don't know because i am not sure what chemistry your using. But if
its lead, i hope not for the distance your going. your going to have
something like 80-85% energy efficiency of leads. So you'll get something
like over 11kWhr you could use to supply energy to the motor controller.
And having a DOD of say 80% to push things a little, you looking at a
useable capacity of just over 9kWhr.
So it may seem yo need a batt capacity of 9kWhr. You can work out the amp
hour needed if you choose the voltage your running at.
My car uses 120 Whr from the batteries to the motor controller for an
average commute my car weigh 700kg or 789kg with me in it. You'd be using i
guess around 200 - 250 whr including the hill climbs i guess?
So then you could work out roughly how much range you could roughly get from
9kWhr.
Say 36 km's? Maybe lots more, maybe lot less depends on the design of the
vehicle. And also depends on how much current you can pull out from the
power point.
Am i wrong??
Just trying to be an engineer!
Cheers
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: AC vs. DC
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 10:12:41 -0400
I'm glad Rick started this thread ... takes some heat of me for asking so
many questions. I guess it would have been better to poise some
constraints and or operating conditions:
Donor will be most likely one of three automobiles:
* a 4wd Subaru (sedan or wagon ... I lean more toward a wagon),
* a Porsche 924 or 944, or
* an RX-7
I realize the 4wd Subaru sounds out of place, but given our terrain and
unpredictable winters it appealed to an aspect of my practical side. The
other choices because their body styling seems to be somewhat ageless ...
and I'd like to hang on to this project for my life time. OK ...
application time.
Interstate driving is an inevitability. The grades here vary ... granted I
live on a plateau, but 6-9% grades are common place (even on the
interstate) with some shorter ones considerably steeper (like my driveway
... 3/4 mile straight up). I'm probably a fence straddler when it comes to
performance ... it'd be nice to be able to break traction every now and
then to show the punks downtown electricity isn't anything to mess with.
Range is where I'm afraid I'm going to get hung ... currently my commute is
just under 80 miles one way ... but there is a recharge source (110) and my
day is typically 8 hours long. Environmentally ... well ... we do have
some hot days, not New Mexico hot but hot to us none the less. It will
commonly push 90 for a week or so during the summer months (we have hit
100+ before ... but it is rare). For the winter, months are a polar
opposite to the summer ... zero to 10F for a week or so each year is good
to kill off the ticks and other bugs. Each year is different, this one
being temperate so far. Rain ... well believe it or not, the southern
mountains of western NC are considered tropical due to its average rain
fall. Wipers are a must ... and a defroster doesn't hurt either!
So some of the other goals to be accomplished:
* Highway speeds 70mph for an hour
* Pull steep grades regularly (70mph on the interstate, probably
45-55mph secondary roads) probably for upwards of 2-5 miles at
a time
* Wipers
* Defroster
* Charge to full (or near) capacity for return trip within 7-8
hours.
* Endure temperature extremes
* Minimal maintenance but allow for tinkering and possible upgrades
* Peal some rubber spontaneously ... without line locking
Are these constraints reasonable?
Thanks,
Ralph.
Rick Todd wrote:
Ok people,
I am new to the whole EV thing and am looking to get started with a
conversion. The one thing that perplexes me at the moment is the AC vs.
DC
technology. Right now at this moment in time which is the better
technology?
Any help would be great.
Thanks,
Rick
_________________________________________________________________
Research and compare new cars side by side at carpoint.com.au
http://secure-au.imrworldwide.com/cgi-bin/a/ci_450304/et_2/cg_801459/pi_1004813/ai_833884
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm looking for high temp (65C ambient) NiMh
batteries.
Probaby 50-200 pieces.
Anybody have a link for sources?
(not necessarily for an EV.)
Thanks,
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <
Hi Pastka and all
I have a warp 11 in one of my ev's that I had a 9 in before , , here is a
video clip of it spinning the tires , while in 4th gear right tire dose most
of the spinning .
http://www.grassrootsev.com/mits.htm . From a dead stop the truck feels
faster in the take of in 4th that in 3 ed , I know this doesn't seem to make
allot of sense , but that's the feel I get from it .
The motor data sheet say 2 times the toque as their 9" for the same amp and
volts , this of course means 1/2 the rpm and makes 3ed gear feel like 1st
with a 9" and 4th gear which one would never take off in with a 9" feels
like 2ed . I put some bigger tires on , and was smoking the tires for a
reporter when the tranny started making a noise . I'm planning on hooking
the motor right to the rear now.
I took the 2k zilla out and put it in pauls 959 Porsche
http://www.worldclassexotics.com/ which also has a 11 net gain motor . We
went for a test drive and after a bit started smelling what at first smelled
like burning insulation , motor was cool , turned out to be the clutch . Yes
a 911 stock clutch will not handle the torque , not even close .
Would one motor reduce the number of contactors needed to supply reverse?
could be done with one set of reversing contactors ( 2 contactors hooked
together )
Can a series/parallel setup still be done with 1 motor?
Their 13 " motor has this for the field windings, but right now the 11 dose
not . I'm running a 3.7 rear and even with some big 285 /15 it will still
spin the wheels in 4th gear, but at about 70 mph the battery amp start to
drop and it feels like its time to shift , this is where the series/
parallel would come in so as to get more power out of the controller , or if
I had a 5 th gear . If you don't have room for 2 motors ( 8's or 9's ) than
one 11 will let you experience the power of a 2k zilla but you will have to
deal with 2 times the toque .
I'd like to hear from some other 11 motor users also , are you finding
the same things I'm seeing ?
Steve Clunn , thinking about 2 11" , :-)
Does it gain you anything?
Sorry for all the questions;
Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ralph, best to ask new questions under a different thread so Rick gets
his answer and you get yours. (this is known as "thread hi-jacking")
So in summary you want a conversion that does:
- Minimum range 80 miles
- involves 6-9% grades
- can recharge off 110v in less than 8 hours
- can drive up to 70mph on steep grades
- can spin wheels
This is a very tall order. I doubt that you can get this range, speed and
power (for hills) with lead acid. You would have to go to lithium to be
able to do it. Can you afford $30,000 just for the battery pack?
You will have to make sacrifices:
- do you want range or be able to "peel some rubber"?
- do you want to drive in the winter 4WD or have a sports car
(Mazda, Porsche)
- how big is your budget?
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: May 17, 2006 7:13 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: AC vs. DC
I'm glad Rick started this thread ... takes some heat of me for asking so
many questions. I guess it would have been better to poise some constraints
and or operating conditions:
Donor will be most likely one of three automobiles:
* a 4wd Subaru (sedan or wagon ... I lean more toward a wagon),
* a Porsche 924 or 944, or
* an RX-7
I realize the 4wd Subaru sounds out of place, but given our terrain and
unpredictable winters it appealed to an aspect of my practical side.
The other choices because their body styling seems to be somewhat ageless
... and I'd like to hang on to this project for my life time.
OK ... application time.
Interstate driving is an inevitability. The grades here vary ...
granted I live on a plateau, but 6-9% grades are common place (even on the
interstate) with some shorter ones considerably steeper (like my driveway
... 3/4 mile straight up). I'm probably a fence straddler when it comes to
performance ... it'd be nice to be able to break traction every now and then
to show the punks downtown electricity isn't anything to mess with. Range
is where I'm afraid I'm going to get hung ...
currently my commute is just under 80 miles one way ... but there is a
recharge source (110) and my day is typically 8 hours long.
Environmentally ... well ... we do have some hot days, not New Mexico hot
but hot to us none the less. It will commonly push 90 for a week or so
during the summer months (we have hit 100+ before ... but it is rare). For
the winter, months are a polar opposite to the summer ...
zero to 10F for a week or so each year is good to kill off the ticks and
other bugs. Each year is different, this one being temperate so far. Rain
... well believe it or not, the southern mountains of western NC are
considered tropical due to its average rain fall. Wipers are a must ... and
a defroster doesn't hurt either!
So some of the other goals to be accomplished:
* Highway speeds 70mph for an hour
* Pull steep grades regularly (70mph on the interstate, probably
45-55mph secondary roads) probably for upwards of 2-5 miles at
a time
* Wipers
* Defroster
* Charge to full (or near) capacity for return trip within 7-8
hours.
* Endure temperature extremes
* Minimal maintenance but allow for tinkering and possible upgrades
* Peal some rubber spontaneously ... without line locking
Are these constraints reasonable?
Thanks,
Ralph.
Rick Todd wrote:
> Ok people,
> I am new to the whole EV thing and am looking to get started with a
> conversion. The one thing that perplexes me at the moment is the AC
> vs. DC technology. Right now at this moment in time which is the
> better technology?
> Any help would be great.
> Thanks,
> Rick
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is what I meant by it being a complicated question! :-)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Is DC really less efficient?
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> *comparable* DC motors are typically 2-4% less efficient than
> AC ones because of the brushes friction alone.
You have to look at exactly which motors you are comparing. The brushes
and commutator of a DC motor are its inverter -- it's built into the
motor. They have an efficiency of about 95-98%.
To compare it to an AC motor, you need to include the efficiency of
whatever you use for its inverter. EV size inverters are also 95-98%
efficient.
This puts us right back where we started!
> Efficiency of a system, DC or AC is *much* more dependent on the
> working region voltage, RPM, load. For example see Siemens system
> efficiency map here: http://www.metricmind.com/line_art/efficiency.gif
This is the key point in any discussion of efficiency. People often look
at the peak efficiency point, and ignore the fact that the vehicle
doesn't operate at this point very often.
An efficiency map like the one Victor posted is a great aid in
understanding the efficiency over a wide range of loads. First, it needs
to be the *system* efficiency (not just that of the motor or
controller). Second, you need to know the efficiencies at a range of
torques and rpms.
Then, you need to look at your vehicle's typical driving cycle. How much
time do you spend at each torque and rpm? If your efficiency peaks at a
torque-speed value that corresponds to 20 mph up a hill, or 80 mph on
the level, it's unlikely you will operate at this point for any length
of time.
This is a *lot* of work to calculate! That's why most people just build
a vehicle, drive it normally, and see how many amphours it takes for
their commute. This tells you your overall average efficiency. Then,
change something. Try a different motor, controller, AC vs. DC etc. and
see if it is better or worse.
In my experience, an AC system is harder to optimize, but can ultimately
produce a better end result. To get this result, you need to spend more
time and money. If you don't have the time and money, use DC.
> An AC motor can last you a million miles, but this is academic:
> you won't keep the vehicle, or battery, or controller for that long.
Agreed. The motor in an EV is the least of your problems. You can wreck
it from abuse, but you won't wear it out. The batteries and controller
will be less reliable. And as a practical matter, the *rest* of the
parts of a normal car are even less reliable than the batteries and
controllers!
> It's other problems: for instance if you hold your vehicle still on a
> small incline with a DC motor, consider its commutator toast. It *has*
> to rotate half rev per second is enough, but never still. AC motors
> have no issues like that.
They can. You can melt the rotor of an AC induction motor doing this.
Or, for a PM AC ("brushless DC") motor, you can fry a stator winding
because all the current flows through one winding.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've wondered the same thing about my truck. From what you say I think
it would be worth making a test loop in the area with and without
regen and see what the Emeter judges as the difference.
Mike
>
> The Ranger doesn't allow very exact calculations of efficiency, but
> when my wife or son drive the truck, they never shift out of Economy
> (maximum regen setting), and based on the Avcon "announcement" of kWh,
> need 10-20% *more* energy. It could be other driving variables, but
> when I've been the passenger, I haven't notice any "seat of the pants"
> differences.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> So some of the other goals to be accomplished:
>
> * Highway speeds 70mph for an hour
> * Pull steep grades regularly (70mph on the interstate, probably
> 45-55mph secondary roads) probably for upwards of 2-5 miles at
> a time
> * Wipers
> * Defroster
> * Charge to full (or near) capacity for return trip within 7-8
> hours.
> * Endure temperature extremes
> * Minimal maintenance but allow for tinkering and possible
upgrades
> * Peal some rubber spontaneously ... without line locking
>
>
> Are these constraints reasonable?
>
Only if you have plenty of money - like the drag-racers say when you
ask how fast you can make your car go: "how much money ya got?"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John,
When I received by PFC charger, the green wire at the charger end was cut
off, leaving only the white and black going to the Anderson connector. It
was known that I was going to install this charger in a isolated enclosure
that isolates all AC input circuits to the frame of the EV.
The AC input receptacle and plug is also isolated from the EV frame, where
only the charger chassis is AC grounded. The continuity of the ground wires
on the AC side and DC side are the same, so in a isolated installation, only
the chassis of the charger is grounded and not to the frame.
When you bench mount the charger, your charger is isolated from the EV
chassis. You charger chassis is grounded from the AC side.
In a isolated charger installation, you will have no potential from any one
battery post to the EV frame while the charger is on. This also prevents
current tracking of the batteries to the frame.
Test this out, by taking a voltage reading from anyone of the batteries to
the EV frame. A EV that is AC grounded using a non-isolated charger, you
would read the full charger voltage from any one battery to the frame.
So if you read this full voltage, make sure you do not lean against any
conductive metal on a EV and touching a battery connection while the charger
is on.
Even in a full isolation electrical installation, it is best to install a
ground detection system, that detects any non-grounding conductor that has a
current path to a metal enclosure that you want isolated from the circuit.
This ground detecting system, requires a AC magnetic contactor between the
AC input plug and the charger. A ground detection unit, normally design
for Class I, Division I installation, either made by the Crouse Hinds or
Killark company. When this ground detecting units detects a ground wire or
the un-ground conductors that make contact with a metal enclosure, it will
than indicate in a status display and/or shut off the AC magnetic contactor.
Instead of doing all of the above, you could install a 120 or 240 VAC GFI
circuit breaker or 120VAC GFIC recepticle, than you can ground the EV frame.
This will require a very clean installation, or you will have lots of
interrupting faults.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 5:44 AM
Subject: PFC-30 question (in plain text this time)
> I've been reading through the installation manual of my PFC-30 and I
> have a few questions.
>
> The manual states:
> "If you have a current shunt in the negative lead, connect the black
> (negative) lead of the charger to the end of the shunt not connected
> to the battery pack.
> Connect the white (positive) lead of the charge cable to the positive
> terminal of the battery pack.
> Connect the green lead of the charge cable to the chassis of the
> vehicle."
>
> If I am temporarily using the PFC-30 as a bench charger, what do I do
> with the green lead?
>
>
> Again from the manual:
> "Connect the pre-charge resister across the place where you disconnect
> the battery pack for safety."
>
> This means the resister is connected in series with the pack wiring
> correct? How often does this have to be done?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John O'Connor
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Regen and high RPM range basically come for free. In fact you'd pay
> extra to design an AC controller with fundamentally disabled regen.
Nothing is "free". Regen adds twice the power semiconductors, and
doubles the amount of control logic. Higher rpm requires more expensive
bearings, stronger rotors, and better balancing.
The "brushless DC" fans in computer power supplies are an example of an
AC system with no frills. They don't do regen, or have any other
performance features over an equivalent DC motor. As a result, they cost
the same as an equivalent DC fan motor. The AC motor's advantages are
that they are a little quieter and eliminated brush wearout.
A larger example would be the big SCR inverter drives in industrial
applications. Since there's no place to feed generated power, there's no
regen. This cuts the number of power semiconductors in half. They use a
simple 6-step square wave drive, because efficiency doesn't matter. No
computers; control logic is as simple as a Curtis. This makes their $/KW
very good -- about the same as big DC drives.
> Else the message can be read as AC systems are more expensive just
> for the sake of being "AC" or fashion, while no real tech advantages.
That is not what I meant to say. I said AC and DC systems are
essentially the same price, on an apples-to-apples basis. But the way
the EV market has worked out, the readily available DC systems happen to
be cheaper and have fewer features, while the readily available AC
systems happen to be expensive and have more features.
So, decide what features you want first. That makes the AC vs. DC
decision for you (unless you want to build your own).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
Well, in any case, it's incredible to be able to access all this information
and make an informed decision. I'm 53 years old
and don't know if I was living a sheltered life at the time, but obtaining
information and parts to build an electric vehicle was very difficult in the
1970's.
I remember spending time in a library looking at motor control circuits in the
early 70's and coming across a schematic for a synthetic three phase
controller. I thought, wow, wouldn't that be something? A 3 phase motor! AC
drive!
That would be way to go!
Today, you can do it!
You can buy a real nice AC system from Vic and bolt one in!
Or you can buy a very nice DC controller from Otmar - and bolt it in!
And you can buy a very nice charger from Rich - and bolt it in!
You can buy a real EV motor - AC or DC - and bolt it in!
That's the real story here.
We have a choice between systems and we can obtain them and install them.
Whether AC or DC, hats off to the guys that have made this stuff available!
So, either way you go, you have this great opportunity to concentrate on
building a really nice conversion, with creative, practical parts placement and
attention to the details that will make your particular conversion really
special and trouble free.
I guess I reminisce too much.
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Otmar wrote:
> >> I knew this was going to be a difficult decission ha haha ...
> >> especially once I read the following:
> >>
> >> http://www.metricmind.com/qa.htm
> >
> >
> > Oh Puhleeze!
> >
> > Is that bit of slander still up on the web!? Every now and then I hear
> > about it and it makes me cringe and swear. That argument has more holes
> > in it than Swiss Cheese.
>
> OK Otmar, I'll take it as a compliment ant try to elaborate. Once.
>
> > A few points from just a quick look at it:
> >
(snip)
> ps. BTW, I often send people to your site too. Those for whom
> AC setup won't work or doesn't make sense.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Keystone makes "battery springs" something like what you're looking for.
http://tinyurl.com/pea6f
I think Digi-Key carries Keystone parts.
HTH,
Andrew
Bill Dennis wrote:
I'm looking on Digikey for some current carrying springs similar to what you
find at the top of a flashlight--but I can't seem to find anything. Anybody
know if such an item exists, and what I need to search for? I'm looking for
springs that can carry around 2A.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> The Dolphin is currently programmed to charge at 2a up to 380 volts.
> Forgot about it and came back 3 hours later. Interestingly enough,
> the car was reading 367 volts with a charge rate of 2amps. If the
> regs were working at full steam, they would be dissipating 1.2 amps
> (2 strings), leaving .8a to go somewhere...
>
> Out of curiousity, where was that .8a going? .4a to each string? Into
> some less charged batteries? Would the car ever get to 375 volts with
> the regs on the batteries?
You didn't say what the state of charge of the batteries was. Also, I
forget what your nominal pack voltage is, so I can't tell if that 367v
was 13v or 15v per 12v battery.
But... when you charge two lead-acid batteries in parallel to 15v,
here's what will happen.
- the batteries are being overcharged
- all the energy going in is converted to heat and gas
- with your sealed batteries, the gas will pressurize the case,
and eventually cause it to vent
- the heat warms up the batteries
- the hotter battery draws more current, producing more heat
- if you let this process continue, you wind up with one cool battery
carrying essentially zero amps and not venting; and one hot battery
carrying all the current and vigorously venting its life away!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Steve,
Yesssss, My GE-11.45 is something else. Can't wait till I get it back from
Warfield, where they are doing a complete overhaul, and installing some of
the Warp 11 products in it.
I using a Warp 9 as a temporary motor, and it does not have the performance
of the 11. The 9 at 3000 rpm which I have to keep in 2nd gear with a
overall ratio of 13.5:1 is at 200 motor amps and 50 battery amps at 30 mph
driving a 6840 lbs EV.
The GE-11.45 in 5.57:1 third gear is at 180 motor and battery amps at 60
mph. One time, I accidentally press the accelerator a little too much and I
shatter the motor coupler which is 2.5 inches thick and 6 inches in
diameter. It felt that a Semi hit me in the back at 100 mph.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: New Netgain TransWarp 11
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <
>
> Hi Pastka and all
> I have a warp 11 in one of my ev's that I had a 9 in before , , here is a
> video clip of it spinning the tires , while in 4th gear right tire dose
> most
> of the spinning .
> http://www.grassrootsev.com/mits.htm . From a dead stop the truck feels
> faster in the take of in 4th that in 3 ed , I know this doesn't seem to
> make
> allot of sense , but that's the feel I get from it .
> The motor data sheet say 2 times the toque as their 9" for the same amp
> and
> volts , this of course means 1/2 the rpm and makes 3ed gear feel like 1st
> with a 9" and 4th gear which one would never take off in with a 9" feels
> like 2ed . I put some bigger tires on , and was smoking the tires for a
> reporter when the tranny started making a noise . I'm planning on hooking
> the motor right to the rear now.
> I took the 2k zilla out and put it in pauls 959 Porsche
> http://www.worldclassexotics.com/ which also has a 11 net gain motor . We
> went for a test drive and after a bit started smelling what at first
> smelled
> like burning insulation , motor was cool , turned out to be the clutch .
> Yes
> a 911 stock clutch will not handle the torque , not even close .
>
> >
> > Would one motor reduce the number of contactors needed to supply
> > reverse?
> >
> could be done with one set of reversing contactors ( 2 contactors hooked
> together )
>
>
> > Can a series/parallel setup still be done with 1 motor?
>
> Their 13 " motor has this for the field windings, but right now the 11
> dose
> not . I'm running a 3.7 rear and even with some big 285 /15 it will
> still
> spin the wheels in 4th gear, but at about 70 mph the battery amp start to
> drop and it feels like its time to shift , this is where the series/
> parallel would come in so as to get more power out of the controller , or
> if
> I had a 5 th gear . If you don't have room for 2 motors ( 8's or 9's )
> than
> one 11 will let you experience the power of a 2k zilla but you will have
> to
> deal with 2 times the toque .
> I'd like to hear from some other 11 motor users also , are you finding
> the same things I'm seeing ?
>
> Steve Clunn , thinking about 2 11" , :-)
>
>
>
> > Does it gain you anything?
> >
> > Sorry for all the questions;
> > Dennis
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Newer trannies like the one I am using employ 3-4 control solenoids and a
dedicated transmission computer. This gives you a lot more options and choices
for choosing newer cars with more efficient automatics. There are shft tables
detailing the lockup torque converter and valve body control detailed in All
Data and other technical info. My plan is to use an onboard pc to control the
shift points based on rpm. I will report the results when the motor is in and
I do some preliminary testing.
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
---- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Could be useful for a conversion with an automatic:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4640840577
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>I should point out that this system offered by electricmotorsports is for
>moped to small motorcycle use. Not bicycle. LR.........
That is where the confusion started: you said the systems were 90 to 200
Watt,
my guess is you meant Amps and that is a factor 50 difference.
(10 kiloWatt iso 200 Watt)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 7:21 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Brushless turnkey system available
Please explain why this is a benefit if most eBike/scooter
conversion kits cost under $300 and offer 300W and 450W systems?
I bought my eBike second hand for $250 with motor, batteries,
controller and throttle included and installed.
I should point out that this system offered by electricmotorsports is for
moped to small motorcycle use. Not bicycle. LR.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Watson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 12:06 AM
Subject: RE: Brushless turnkey system available
>I beg to differ!
>
> regen on my bike is the best! I've taken to going up a hill on the
> way home so I can regen down the other side and it gives me anywhere
> from 2.5 amps to more than 7 amps regen... at the bottom of the hill
> my voltage is pegged up to >50V(48Vpack) and the bike is peppier the
> rest of the way home...
>
> When I go home without going up that hill I'm down to 46 V on the way
> home and the bike is loosing it's ability to keep the speed up! there
> is a 15 ft rise near home that I end up having to push the bike up
> because it has lost so much power...that's no fun!
>
> I can see the usefullness of regen at every stop sign and hill I
> drive on! It does cost more, but I think it's well worth it!
> T
> ----------------snip----------------
> Lawrence,
>
> Please explain why this is a benefit if most eBike/scooter
> conversion kits cost under $300 and offer 300W and 450W systems?
>
> I bought my eBike second hand for $250 with motor, batteries,
> controller and throttle included and installed.
>
> Maybe that regen is interesting in SF, but most areas it has
> no use for scooter/bike as the amount of power delivered back
> into the battery can hardly be measured. Certainly under 5%.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
battlepacks.com
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm looking for high temp (65C ambient) NiMh
> batteries.
> Probaby 50-200 pieces.
> Anybody have a link for sources?
> (not necessarily for an EV.)
> Thanks,
> Rod
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My conversion of a Scirocco has reached the point of installing the battery
rack in the front. I need to bolt it to the firewall. What is the recommended
method of attachment. I've looked at nutserts but can't get the installation
tool to all the locations.
Using lead acid, it's heavy when loaded. Do I need to reinforce the firewall?
Thanks
Ken
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correction the systems available are in amps not watts. The systems are 90
and 200 amps. LR......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>; "Zappylist"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:54 AM
Subject: Brushless turnkey system available
I was at Todd Kollin's Electricmotorsports in Oakland the other day and saw
a very intersting brushless system. It was complete and all you needed to
do was add batteries. Todd figured it was easier for the end user if he
did the wiring and offered it completely setup & bench tested. Some of
Todds creations are very peppy and this has the potential with regen to be
very useable for scooters & small motorcycles. He has a 90 and a 200 watt
unit. http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ He said he was changing the site
to show the system but all I could find was NOW AVAILABLE WITH AC DRIVE.
He wants 1000 & 1200 respectively for the two levels of power. Seems like
a good deal. Haven't seen it in action yet but it's supposed to be the
brushless ETEK. Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Mark E. Hanson" wrote:
> Well, I'm not so hot afterall.
We all think you're pretty hot. It's your *motor* that's not so hot :-)
> The temp guage that read 212F should have been 140F when the motor
> was measured directly with a thermal probe... Anyway, most motors
> are class H 180C rated according to Warfield in IL.
But that's 180 deg.C *peak*, at the hottest spot (and you don't know
where that point is). And, this is the temperature at which the
insulation will fail right now! Think of it as the melting point. You
don't want to ever go there!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You didn't say what the state of charge of the batteries was. Also, I
forget what your nominal pack voltage is, so I can't tell if that 367v
was 13v or 15v per 12v battery.
The pack is 2 strings of 25 twelve volt AGM batteries for a baseline
voltage of 300. 367 is 14.7 volts per battery on average.
At start, the batteries were "fully charged" according to the E-meter.
Well, +1ah with a 98% CEF.
But that's still only 340 or so at 1.6a rate (the max I have throttled
the Magnecharger to for a 4 hour timeout)
Each battery has one of the regs, and I have noticed that with the 10
ohm .5w resistor that they will draw about .6a at 14.7 volts. So two
strings of them should be sucking down 1.2 amps leaving only .8a for the
batteries (in a perfect world, .4a per string)
But... when you charge two lead-acid batteries in parallel to 15v,
here's what will happen.
- the batteries are being overcharged
- all the energy going in is converted to heat and gas
- with your sealed batteries, the gas will pressurize the case,
and eventually cause it to vent
- the heat warms up the batteries
- the hotter battery draws more current, producing more heat
- if you let this process continue, you wind up with one cool battery
carrying essentially zero amps and not venting; and one hot battery
carrying all the current and vigorously venting its life away!
How about if you charge two strings of batteries? Would one string get
hotter, one battery in one string get hotter? Would the regs change the
dynamics of things by keeping those hotter batteries from drawing more
current?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
I think he should have chosen the Z1K-LV. It's certainly closer to his
unit, though not at all the same power. At 156 Volts and 1000 amps
it's almost twice as powerful as his AC drive but only costs $1975.
(Sorry, at the moment I don't make a smaller one) ...
Any musings on when (if ever) we will see a smaller Cafe Electric
controller?
Maybe with around 75kW (half the Z1K-LV) power output. For those of us
compact/subcompact drivers that would enjoy your feature set and
quality, but don't *ever* plan to smoke any tires...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
400-600cc
gas-powered maxi-scooters (all of which, by the way, are considerably
slower
than Vectrix in acceleration).
I would be very suprised if the Vectrix would beat even a Honda Helix
250cc. That scooter would go 70+ mph get 68mpg and beat most cars up to
about 30mph. The Vectrix might be quicker but show me. I suspect it
isn't. LR......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: EVDL
Date: Sat May 13, 2006 11:09 am
Subject: TdS Report #20: Photos - Solaqua Sound GEM [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Send Email
TdS Report #20: Photos - Solaqua Sound GEM
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006/photos_008.html
Solaqua Sound GEM
Yet another take on the idea of Sound on Wheels.
This looks like a car stereo nut's fantasy or a boomboxphobe's nightmare.
The circular disk in the center is one of those discharge displays
(is Seven-of-Nine here?)
and the rectangle is an LED light organ.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2006 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2006 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Stef Komorowski
Classic Communications
508-698-6810
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey All,
Just an FYI.
Be on the lookout for scammers who are selling bogus "How to build your
own EV" publications on Ebay. These people are obviously trying to take
advantage of the higher gas prices by selling OUR copyrighted
intellectual material.
An alert EVer has informed me that someone has lifted the "Build an EV"
section off the EVA/DC website and is selling it for $4.99 on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/How-To-Build-An-Electric-
Car_W0QQitemZ9518340671QQcategoryZ47103QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZView
Item
He found this out when he suspected the same guy stole his stuff. He's
going to send me a PDF file of it so I can see what was lifted.
I guess the lesson that can be learned for this is to copyright your
stuff and watermark your pictures or illustrations.
Chip Gribben
EVA/DC Webmaster
http://www.evadc.org
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
