EV Digest 5511
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Question about NIMH patent(s)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV Range Records
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: NiMH working but Unavailable
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Taperlock dilemma
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Regen-ask a Prius owner
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Aerodynamics .. viktor's idea .. to reduce 'drag' to near zero
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Taperlock dilemma
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: thick "primary" and "thinner wire more numerous" windings on a rotor
.. step up transformer effect ?
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Taperlock dilemma
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Interesting bit of RAV4 EV trivia if true
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: generator
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Ampabout, Joliet Version
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 200 miles highway range on flooded lead acid: Is it possible?
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---On 19 May 2006 at 10:43, Lee Hart wrote: > The old nickel-iron cell (invented by Tom Edison > around 1900) is a lot like a nimh cell. Good point. Chevron doesn't control nickel-iron, nor does it control nickel- zinc. Both may have undeveloped potential (no pun intended) for EV use. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EV List Assistant Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---A specially prepared Solectria Sunrise did 375 miles on a charge during the Tour de Sol in 1996. In 1997, James Worden drove another Sunrise prototype from Boston to New York (216 miles) at an average speed of 55 mph with a second passenger and luggage onboard. These cars were fitted with NiMH batteries - 30 kWh total energy, I believe. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EV List Assistant Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---On 19 May 2006 at 15:17, Mike Phillips wrote: > > > > I do believe Chevron Texaco has the patent until about 2018. > > That just plain sucks. Unless of course you are the Chinese ;) They > just don't care. As long as they don't sell the products here. They could sell them in most of Asia. But as soon as a US distributor picks up a Chinese vehicle with unlicensed NiMH batteries, they'd better have a darn good legal defense fund, because I suspect they'll get slammed. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EV List Assistant Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---I disagree vehemently. You want it to be right. My instinct tells me that the heat of welding might distort this most critical piece. I'm not a welder, but what if it did? Or the metal added it made it imbalanced? What if you for some reason, needed to replace the flywheel? Now you need a new motor too! Get it done right, and be on the safe side. --- Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Suppose you had a brand new shiny taperlock hub. You > waited a long time to get it and were anxious > to install your motor to build your EV. But there > was a problem. The vendor drilled the holes > wrong so you cannot bolt your clutch to the hub. > Would there be a problem with throwing out the > bolts and having the hub welded directly to the > flywheel? Isn't this what Gadget recommends. I was > planning on having the flywheel machined to lighten > it, maybe I can find a machine shop that could > do both procedures at the same time. It would > probably be the fastest way to fix the problem. I'm > not worried about the longevity of the flywheel, it > won't be getting much abuse anymore. And I'm > not interested in taking the time to send the hub > back to have them do it right. I just want to > get the car together. > > Thanks > > Dave Cover > > Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too! Learn more at: www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html ____ __/__|__\ __ =D-------/ - - \ 'O'-----'O'-' Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Thanks, Cor for helping out while I was offline. I too like to press on the accelerator just enough to stop the regen and coast as much as possible but sometimes traffic doesn't permit it. The 200wHr is like Cor said a typical amount of electricity used to travel a mile in a small sedan. The Prius has been measured by some pretty accurate methods by some pretty smart engineering type people on the Prius lists to get around that. This is in all electric mode. I believe the EV1 actually used even less per mile and 8 times is completely inaccurate. The 20% is just the extra boost that you are able to utilize again so you can go that much farther by using the regen then without it. In the Prius this would mean that you would use that much less equivalent gasoline but in a pure electric vehicle it would obviously be used to increase the total range. Ideally, from an energy efficiency standpoint, one would coast with no regen and just let the vehicle slow down under the friction, rolling resistance and wind resistance of the vehicle and time it just right so the full stop is right where you want it. But as we know, this is not always practical with the modern traffic patterns and driving habits. Brakes would only then be used in emergency situations and we would never need to use regen either. However, if we want to make as little impact on the traffic flow as possible then we need to *waste* that inertia either with heat through the use of brakes or we can recover *some* of it with regen and also save on the use of brakes. Chet P.S. The dream to live part went right over my head, sorry. I don't recall seeing that commercial either. --- Michael Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OK... 200wHr w/ the engine running, per mile, right? I seem to recall a > post, just a couple hours ago, saying the EV1 took 8 times that amount to > travel at 60. The return seems a bit high to me, but since you are pulling > down around 70MPG, it's your dream to live. > > I was also stumped by the 20% regen recovery. I would assume this is 20% of > the forward momentum? If it's 20% of the power to reach your destination, > then perhaps this is in town where it's all stop/go? Sort of like the > commercial where they guy is impressing his wife? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> > Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:55 PM > Subject: Re: Regen-ask a Prius owner > > > > Hi Michael, > > > > Interesting - you gave the missing data yourself: > > The Prius goes a mile on 200wHs of juice, this is probably not a > > measured value but all smaller EV sedans will have somewhere > > between 150 and 200 Wh per mile figures, a truck will typically > > need 250 to 300 Wh per mile (or more). > > So if you take the data of the leaves (400 - 600 Wh) and > > divide by 200 Wh/mi then you get 2 - 3 miles for the Prius. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---I remember a filmstrip of an old, now classic experiment, in my fluid dynamics class. A balance scale was placed with 2 3" diameter spheres hanging over 2 air vents connected to the arms of the scales. The blowers were turned on and adjusted to center balance. Then scratches were put around one of the laquered wood balls with a tool that looked like 6 scratch alls bolted togather makeing parallel scratches 90 degrees to the airflow. As the air speed was increased the drag on the scratched ball got worse and worse, but at a certain speed it suddenly reduced and the balls changed positions. A little smoke shows how the turbulence becomes little roller bearins at a certain speed. But it is a narrow speed range and a lot more energy was required to get to that speed. What I could see this leading to is maybe a porous surface that is pressurized from within so that it leaks through provideing a lubricating effect. http://aerodyn.org/Drag/additives.html Safety is another concern. You must either have some lift or some downforce. If you get to close to the neutral point the vehicle will transition from one to the other and is unsafe (Porshe 911 TC at 140MPH suddenly squats) Lift is dangerous so we must have downforce (but maybe not if you have a 4000lb EV, hummm) downforce causes more rolling resistance. Incidentaly, putting the air back togather after it is seperated around your car is just as important. At automotive speeds we get away with truncating that tailcone if we lead up to it correctly, and it falls back togather ok. But not if that flat back is large, SUV, Semi Truck, etc. Which has greater air drag a cone flying point first or a flat bottom first? depends on angle of cone relative to airspeed. wikipedia has some good info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_drag
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---At 08:43 PM 20/05/06 -0700, Dave Cover wrote:Suppose you had a brand new shiny taperlock hub. You waited a long time to get it and were anxious to install your motor to build your EV. But there was a problem. The vendor drilled the holes wrong so you cannot bolt your clutch to the hub. Would there be a problem with throwing out thebolts and having the hub welded directly to the flywheel?The answer is: that depends! If the flywheel is a grade of steel that lends itself to being welded, then great, if not, it will crack and you willhave to throw away the flywheel and hub. Gadget got away with it on his Triumph, but IIRC ran into this problem with others he tried.I'd just send the hub you waited a millenia for back to the vendor for a refund, go to your nearest bearings-and-chain supplier and get a new taperlock body - gear, pulley or blank that has enough material in the right places to take the bolts and is otherwise sized to suit. Take it to your friendly local machinist, and for a carton of beer or three he (or she) would: 1) throw a shaft stub in their lathe and trim it to match the taperlock bore, so as to have something that is absolutely true to work from. 2) taperlock your body onto the stub and work it to be able to accurately locate the flywheel onto a shoulder, and perhaps cut a little groove at the pitch circle diameter of the bolts to help the bolt alignment. 3) release the taperlock and take the taperlock body and flywheel over to a mill or a drill press. Drill and tap the bolt holes for the flywheel (it would help if the flywheel hole clears the taperlock hub so that the assembly can be done once only).4) return to the lathe, taperlock the hub back on and bolt the flywheel to it. 5) machine the flywheel down to the outside diameter of the clutch assembly, 6) flip the flywheel over and take some off the back as well. 7) remove it from the lathe, hand it to you and open a beer. Regards[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---ah ! .. good and lucid explatnation .. especially the last part about 120 volts in parallel and 240 volts in series .. not only do i understand the idea .. but now i am aware of the fact that this 'idea' of two wires in the same slots of the rotors is in fact an already existing thingy .. thank you i also understand the logic of how the total hp remains the same irrespective of the winding being connected in serial or parallel mode .. and also the clear indication that there is NO extra (over unity ?) .. to this i agree fully the 'unanswered' part of my question : if the two wires are thick and thin and the current is generated in the thick wire .. which induces higher voltage in the thinner wire .. working like a 'rotating' transformer (both wires are in the rotor's slot, remember ?) THEN, if current is tapped from the thin wire thru slip rings .. will this work ? (in other words, if the current generated in the thick wire cannot be more than 12 volts .. but is AC .. then can it be made into 120 volts AC to run a motor for powering the car .. this will need 10 times more turns of the thin wire as compared to the thick wire) ..peekay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 1:23 AM Subject: Re: thick "primary" and "thinner wire more numerous" windings on a rotor .. step up transformer effect ? > peekay wrote: > > the current was generated by the movement of its rotor as in a > > regular alternator .. BUT .. there were 'secondary' windings of > > thinner wires and more turns in the same slot > > > > it was claimed that the 'transformer' action .. stepping > > up of voltage is achieved .. and the thinner winding > > delivered the generated higher voltage ac current to > > the sliprings from where it was tapped .. for further > > use as would be possible > > Coils generate a certain number of volts per turn. More turns produces > more volts. Two sets of windings on the same core produces proportional > voltages in each winding. Indeed, this is how transformers work. > > But there's no free energy. A winding with twice the turns produces > twice the voltage but half the current, so the power is the same. > > Some motors are built with two identical winding that can be externally > connected in series or parallel. This is how they make one motor that > can run on (say) 120vac (both windings in parallel) or 240vac (both > windings in series). But the motor produces exactly the same horsepower > either way. > -- > Ring the bells that still can ring > Forget the perfect offering > There is a crack in everything > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen > -- > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.6.1/344 - Release Date: 19/05/2006 > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---On Sat, 20 May 2006 21:34:15 -0700 (PDT), Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I disagree vehemently. You want it to be right. My >instinct tells me that the heat of welding might >distort this most critical piece. I'm not a welder, >but what if it did? Or the metal added it made it >imbalanced? What if... what if.... what if.... Perhaps deferring to a welder or machinist would be more productive. As both, I see no show-stopping problem with this proposed procedure. My only question would be the weldability of the flywheel material. The flywheel is probably cast steel and if so, will weld just fine. Of course, the welder actually wielding the TIG torch would have to make that decision. As for imbalance or heat distortion, any welder worth his stub bucket will know how to do a symmetrical and minimally/non-distorting weld. Given the minimal amount of filler involved and the nearness to the shaft centerline, imbalance is a non-issue for a competent welder. >What if you for some reason, needed to replace the >flywheel? Now you need a new motor too! Huh? He's not proposing to weld to the motor shaft. > Get it done right, and be on the safe side. Define "right". I really like Gadget's weld method. Clever and simple. It should work fine here. John > > >--- Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Suppose you had a brand new shiny taperlock hub. You >> waited a long time to get it and were anxious >> to install your motor to build your EV. But there >> was a problem. The vendor drilled the holes >> wrong so you cannot bolt your clutch to the hub. >> Would there be a problem with throwing out the >> bolts and having the hub welded directly to the >> flywheel? Isn't this what Gadget recommends. I was >> planning on having the flywheel machined to lighten >> it, maybe I can find a machine shop that could >> do both procedures at the same time. It would >> probably be the fastest way to fix the problem. I'm >> not worried about the longevity of the flywheel, it >> won't be getting much abuse anymore. And I'm >> not interested in taking the time to send the hub >> back to have them do it right. I just want to >> get the car together. >> >> Thanks >> >> Dave Cover >> >> > > >Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD >has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too! >Learn more at: >www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html > ____ > __/__|__\ __ > =D-------/ - - \ > 'O'-----'O'-' >Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? >Are you saving any gas for your kids? > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---"Previously owned by Ford Motor Company in Michigan. Used as a test car. Japanese right-hand drive version." http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/770
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Earlier this month, someone was going to drive an EV pickup from Portland(?) Oregon to Illinois using a 15 kW genset in the bed. He was using a PFC-50 tuned to pull 75 amps from 240 VAC. I have not heard what happened. Has anyone heard the results? Joe Smalley Rural Kitsap County WA Fiesta 48 volts NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 1:29 PM Subject: generator > Do any of you use a generator with the PFC 30. It looks like a 5 kW + > generator would handle 30 amps at 156 output. > > I see the issues with 400 V+ burning them. > besides that issue, are there any cleaner burning, mostly QUIET generator > that could easily be trailered or mounted in the bed of a pickup for range > extension? > > the S10 truck would pull 15 kW for constant highway, so the range extension > wouldn't be permenant. any other thoughts on achieving such a high long > term draw as 15 kW and getting that power into the 144 Volt trojan pack? > > that is even if the DCP 600 and Advanced 9" could even take (say 180 miles > of travel distance from Philadelphia to DC or Philly to NYC) > > or other creative range extension for 180 miles (car has 50-60 miles on its > own). If I had range extension, i could let the gas car die and stay dead > :) > > Ben >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Hi EVerybody; Probably the last post about the Joliet Trip, or rained OUT! Well, My MicroSloth Mail program wouldn't work, the Outlook Distress that I'm running. Yeah, I hear youse Mac Guyz saying" Get A Mac!"Or a Something Else that doesn't just stop and go "Duh" til you pull out the @#$%^ plug and reboot all over again! Here goes; I had the Van, my trusty rusty Ford E-150, i THINK ? van loaded up for the trip, took pity on the Rabbit having to carry 1200 lbs of batteries ALL the way to Chicagoland, so I took the 9 out of the rear battery box, easiest to take out may have influinced that decision.Made a neet row in the rear of the Ford as ballast, so the Ford was WAY hevier than the Rabbit. This will figure later on in this story, stay tuned.Threw a old mattress in back, for the long lonely drive through the night, a Cheepo Chi Com inverter to run my Boombox for tunes, and charging the cell fone. Cig lighter hasn't worked for YEARS, As I don't smoke it hasn't been a priority. The Gas gage always was, and have kept THAT fixed! Cameras, clothes comforter blanket and we are ready to roll, left CT about 9am on Wed , next port of call; Warefield Electric in Frankfort Ill.Carrying a motor for Rick Pryor, on a cute little shipping pallot, another 140 lbs of ballast. Figuring the shipping SHOULD! be a tad cheaper from Chicago, than, say, New Haven or Hartford?Rick? If yur reading this it SHOULD be down Phoenix way via Fed Ex Ground? By now. I'll check Warfields' Monday. Anyhow, back to the story. Trip was fairly unEVentfull, as the miles chuffled away, at about 50 mph@ 2000RPM on the old Ford 300CI 6 cylinder engine. Chuffled? Yeah! The manufold leaks, a sorta weezy chuffling sound under load.But it runs so well I haven't bothered to fix it. Just bring a good loud tape player in a boombox. Piles of cassettes of" Low Fi" as J Wayland calls it. Had enough Victrola record tapes to last the whole trip.Radio? Forgetabout it!As you go west into the Bible Thumpers on the air stations, or just endless ADS! I run out of my good old WMNR Classical Radio in the first half hour, sigh! Pennsylvania seems endless at 50 or so, about 300 miles. EVERYthing passes me, Diseasel fuel is still free? the way the3 Big Rigs FLY past , buffiting the old Ford about.The radar cops must laff like that ad with the car dragging the boat anchor by, as the Cops laugh!But being the slowest guy out there I am getting great miliage. I fuill up once a day, I never figured out how many MPG I'm getting, but it IS a shock to pump 60 bux worth of gas in one filling, Hell, as somebody said that I doubled the value of the van EVery time I filled up<g>!I EVen tried the Corn Gasahaul in Illinois, the 15 percent "Gas" stuff. Thre faithful old Ford didn't care.It was "Only" $2.65 a gal, cheapest stuff I filled with! Had a jug of Hex-on oil for the occasional sip the Ford needed. Only two quarts a way out and 2 back, not bad for an antique gas engine! Drove to exhaustion around the Ohio PA boarder, slept at a truck stop, Gees! WHYTHEHELL don't the Big Rigs shut down their Diseasels when ! THEY need a nap? I know the reefers have to run, but the traction engine?it was damn COLD so I had the windows rolled up. Awaking with the dawn's early light, on for a Denny's breakfast, fillerup and away. "That REALLY an electric car?"So ya do the whole smeer, guided tour, of the car, and WHY you are 400 miles from home, going to the Races. Check out "NEDRA.COM, all that stuff. Car attract people EVerywhere ya stop. People asking good questions, alota other people feel that it is the Oil Biz stopping EV's Hmmmm? America is waking up. Well you saw my politoically incorrect stickers all over the Rabbit".I campeign so you don't have to" Sorry John, couldn't resist! Anyhow as I get to Ohio I have to make a route decision. Forgetabout the damn toll roads towing anything! You can interstate south through Akron down to Mansfield, pick up Rt -30, you KNOW that that is; the old Lincoln Highway, the eastern version of the Route 66, the "Mother Road"Thinking of the Lincoln Highway as sung about on several of my 20's Victrola records" God's Country" the toon singing about traveling the Lincoln Highway. Toll free it is still 4 laner, through most of the way, there IS about 50 miles of two laner, which can be scary as trux blast past you at 200 MPH, Of COURSE in the godamn RAIN!It was a beautiful warm spring day in my Pa. passage, turning cold and rainy as i went through Ohio and Indiana at my signature glatial pace. Rt 30 goes west about 30 miles SOUTH of Chicago, missing some of the WORST traffic backups, on a never finished toll road. Chicago folks have put up with this shit for YEARS!, but you sweep into Chicago land on 30 just great! Pull! ed into the Abe Lincoln Motel, same place I stayed in LAST year in Frankford. It WAS cold, put the TV on 42 degreez! Snow flurries possable1 Feh! Tuened up the heat , in the motel room to "Blazing Inferno" and went to bed!But not until I called John Wayland's cell no. Jim Husted answered, they werre in Iowa or somewhere, mentioned train whistles keeping John awake. Yeah If I were drivin' the train and knew John was trying to sleep I woulda done a horn concherto, too. Hey! Guyz we HAVE to blow the damn horn by federal law! Sorry<g>! Mourning came soon enough. I'm getting pretty good at backing the flat towed Rabbit<g>! to get OUT of the spot that I pulled in the damn rain the night before. Head over to Warfield's . Time to "Head Pin" the Rabbit. RR speak for uncoupling the locomotive from the train.Parked the Ford in Jerry's lot and went in to hang awile for the plant tour due that pm. Jerry had graciously let me pull in to the factory building to reinstall the batteries and plugitin. At about 3 PM the festivities began. The crowd arrived, was great seeing EVerybody that showed at the plant. EVerybody enjoyed seeing where " their" motors came from. EVerybody should see DC motors born, a menorable experiance. Actually an art form, work of art thing seeing the coils wound into the armatures and pole pieces. The Warfield crew did us fine showing all the fun stuff of building motors. About this time the Word came down. Races CANCELLED! OK lets head out to Joliet anyhow as that was where EVerybody was staying. Hopped in the Rabbit, they said that it was only" a few miles" to Joliet. Cruised along, through seemingly many little towns til I hit Joliet, those 2 traction pack batteries that I tapped for 12 volts for running lights, were sagging BADLY. Gotta find an outlet darn soon or get THERE! Bill Dube had offered me a bunk on board the Camper that they had brought from Denver with THE bike, Kilocycle with the hot A 123 batteries, lurking in a custom built box.Well I went THROUGH Joliet, thinking I would see signs? Cheated, stopped at a Gasp! GAS station to ask directions. Of course the gal there knew where the track was, EVen drew me a map! Piece of cake now, as I dragged along at 90 volts, sagging fast! But Illinois is EV country! FLAT as Iowa an' Indiana! Or a tabletop<g>!With a full charge you could ghost along at 45 or so at 30-40 amps! Arrived at ! the track reception area in time for the Pizza and more good times, AND the car got a bite to eat too as there were nice juicy outlets right on the building! Later, time for some shut eye, over to trhe Camper. Dave "Battery Boy" Hawkins , Bill an I wandered over to the promised camping area with lottsa good outlets to plug EVerything in.The roar of the cabin heater was reassuring as it was in the low 40's still and raining! As usual! Mourning! Time to go eat, heard that EVerybody was going to the Bob Evens Restaurant over on rt 7. Rabbitted over, a nice burst on I 80 across the river and you are there! Cruised around the restaurant, sniffing out an outlet. Yup! There's one! Plugitin, the PFC 30 Green Box was doing it's thing, 15 amps or so. Now go stuff MY face, too! EVerybody was there, it's great to see the old faces and the newer ones in person, Real Time, as they say. Next stop, Pep Boys! We all headed over to the parking lot for show an' tell. Soon the great thought of a smoke show, or a burnout contest. Well? Whythehell not?It had stopped raining for a few minutes. Didn't take long to get Joule Injected and White Zombie back to back to fill the air with good old elecrically laid tire smoke! Now all we needed was a good strong chain, to hold them togetheras track traction conditions were too good. Tim hit the juice with Zombie and it went sideways as well as forward. Not a level playing field here! Blocking and line locks didn't help. I have a great vid of Zombie shooting across the lot pushing wheel blocks, like nothing! EVerybody got in the act! Aggrivated Battery, tried her best, but all she did was GO! Well, that's what they are supposed to do! OK MY turn! I figgured that I would just drag my E brake and wheelslip a bit before my clutch would let go. But in second gear, revving the motor up with the T Wrecks, dumping the clutch, it broke loose into a 500 amp plus wheelslip! Tires spun, and SPUN! Gees a 3 million lb Floody powered non racing setup, doing the smookiest burnout I have EVer gotten!Turning the steering wheel right an' left got BOTH tires smoking. As they sang and ground along filling the cabin with smoke I could see 350 amps with a 15 volt sag on the 120 volt system, about what it takes to go about 85 mph in 5th! I was sorta waiting for SOMETHING to open up in a blinging flash? Take yur pick, battery terminals, fuze, motor flashover/ Or just killing the controller.No, EVerything held together, Later drove over to the City of Champions restaurant, which DID have an outside outlet. Ya know we are SO close to EV outletting, only if there were MORE EV's it could be a challange finding not "takin" ones. O! utlet strips in the parkinglots. Pray for it! We had a nice jam session aboard Bill's Camper. John Emde an Jesse stopped in for awile to chat EV's. This is what it's all abouyt, good food , company all thatr stuff. Or why we drag ass across the USA at 3 bux a gal to come together. Was it worth it. You bet! Another nitre at the trak, and the sounds of gas rigs arriving had us up. The gas guyz were running! Well, road rally stuff. Lets saddle up and head over to Bob Even's again, Found my olf faithful outlet, stuff my face again, and we all went over to the Wal Mart Parking lot for more rides and show an' tell. The old Rabbit getting to hob nob with the famous racing stuff. Pretty good for the last run, or swan song, as I will get to in good time.We were over in the fare corner of the lot, doing drag launcjhes, and rides.I never got MY ride, or to drive Zombie. Sigh, maybe next time<g>!Was way cool seeing Joule Injected almost hang with Zombie, and at a scale busting Rabbit weight! Fun what TWO 9 inch motors can do! Who'se gunna step to the plate and get Jim to build them a Siamese Nine inch motor setup?Or an 11<g>! Sunday nite things were winding down, guyz heading off to airporte and getting back to the Real World. Sigh. Jerry ascher hooked up with me to travel on east to Detroit, and Windser Ont Canada so he could travel to some speaking engagments in Canada. OK I just swing north to i 94 east to Detoilet and drop Jerry in Canada and head south to Toledo, Cleveland ansd Akron.We drove back to Warfields' Hitched up the Rabbit and hit the open road. Yeah! Right! TRIED the damn toll road, beat the poor old Rabbit on thre potholes and trenches of the endless construction road,. EVentually got onto I 94 the "Electric Car Expressway" of Bob Arionson fame. Bonb had set up 240 volt 200 amp service drops at Holiday Inns EVewry 40-60 miles along the interstate, I tried checking this out a few years ago, went into a few Holiday Inns to ask. Thre folks I asked probably wern't eVen BORN yet, when the charguing stations were built! Jerry had made reservations at a hostel in University of Windse! r, where he would put up for the night to catch the Via Rail, Canada's answer to Amtrak, in the AM. Well we pulled into detoilet at about 7 PM I didn't want to tow a vehicle into Canada so I figured we'd do the standard tourist trip into Canada. Easy, head pin in Detroit, near the Ambassador Bridge, drive on over. Well, if you have EVer been to downmntown Detroit? It is a wasteland! We cruised Fort Street, a MAJOR thorofare, looking for, say, a Walmart or Shopping complex, where I could park the van for a few hours?You drive along abandoned buildings dark, and somber inthe rain.Occasional street lights fight back the gloom, no people , little traffic. Finally found a Kentucky Fried Chicken place, pulled in in back and head pinned. For a deserted area, HOWTHEHELL do they find you so quick? I mean the "Spare Change" guys, bumming out of the gloom! Shameleesly demanding money.I wasn't comfortable leaving the van there, desreputable as it looks. But we were off to the Bridge, b! oy I don't know WHO designed the on ramps, in the rain, with no defros ter, I never hooked up the heat, hell, it's SPRING! Right? Rolled into Canada, pulled into the " Entry" lane. Well, it 'aint like the old daze. Got a pretty good grilling from the Canada folks, Jerry had a passport, no problemo, a CT drivers licence? Well, you gotta go into the building over there. They must check you out on line as it takes awile, like when ya get a traffic ticket. FINALLY I was given an OK to enter Canada! Well a bunch of the Canada Customs guyz came out" It's a real Electric Car?"It made their evening, opened the hood, showed them around. They thought it was cool. But NOBODY asked me if I had DRIVEN the car fron Connecticut. Was sorta surprised as NOBODY commented on the CT plate. Off to down town Windsor, what a diffewrance! People, stores in the street, lite up, alive as Canadian cities are at night.They are doing SOMETHING right. We went for a bite to eat, then a run down to the Via station, just to see a real Canadian train,in fronm Toronto. A GE Dise! asel, Feh! Just like home, but the cars were different, sleek, low slung, nice light looking stuff, that would pull easy. Train landed, and downloaded people into the rainy night. Nice blue paintjob with "CANADA" painted with pride on the center of each car. Same Diseasels I ran on Amtrak, at home. THE Rabbit liked being in Canada, it's first time, ghosting along the rain soaked streets, about 30-40 amps. Dropped Jerry off and headed back to the USA, through the Tunnel, wanted to show the Rabbit the OTHER way back to Detroit.That tunnel is ancient! Has to be one of the first ones, I see why I didn't see any trucks, that spiral at the US side is too small!. Only a few blocks from the tnnel is?was Electro Liner's World headquarters YEARS ago in my first EV venture, an old sawtooth roof relic of the 19th century industrial era. Whatthehell, it was only 100 bux a month! When the Ren Cen was built they tore it down to build a parkinglot. So 981 Franklin Street became history, t! he rest of Franklin Street is still there. I can tell alota fun stuff about renting there another time, maybe over dinner at an EVent<g>! As it was cold and rainy I didn't make my pilgrimage over there, headed to Fort Street, to, I hoped, the Van, YES! It was STILL there, unbroken, and waiting to be taken AWAY from there. As I set up the tow rig, the beggers emerged from the gloom, AGAIN! Well this guy, David, I put him to work, helping mre hook up. He asked for bus fare, OhYeah for his Bro, too. #3 bux later and a guided tour of the EV He liked it, said that they could be made but he KNEW the Oil Co's were stopping it. He must be READING OUR STUFF<G>I was surprised at his insite on the EV thing. He kept saying that WE could build EV's in Detroit. Yes, we could, and David could be working the Line rather than bummin' bus fares home. Is there something wrong with this picture?Sigh! Headed South toward Toledo, on I 75 Of course POURING rain, Flying semi's, courdoroy roads beating thre hell out of the car,drove to exhaustion south of Toledo. PARKED IN A shopping maul for the night.. the rain on the van roof was kinda relaxing.Slept in til 9 or 10 gassed up and headed down thre two laners til I could hit RT2, into Cleveland. Next stop; Akron, to drop in at David Roden's. David had things to do til later , so I dogged it along had dinner and got instructions. secret is out David DOESN'T live in Akron, but pretty darn close<g> A lovely rural community, out in the woods a mini farm, quiet and nice. We EV talked and vidioed well into the night. A Rabbit spin when David pointed out that I had a wheel bearing going in the Rabbit. Next mourning hunted down a front wheel bearing at Auto Zone. Was gunna change it there, but I found that my bumper mounting bolts were loose, again! So this time I fixed it right; took out the front batteries to really TIGHTEN the ! damn 18 m bumper bolts. This took longer than I figgured, so I figguredIed check it, the bearing further along, like at Dave Stensland's ibn ITHACA, NY, NEXT port of call. Figgured a 6 hour or so drive to Ithaca. WRONG! Got on to PA and north to Erie, and RT 17 across the Enpire State as they call it. Parts of rt 17 are old concrete sections, broken up for that famous cordoroy ride, beating the hell out of the car AND van.Dasve, ever the patient soul, called me on the cell, to see how I was doing. I think I got to Ithica about11pm! Dave talked me down on the cell, boy they are a great thing when yur lost! What a beautiful spoy he has there! Next AM, we took a spin in the Rabbit into town, as Dave wanted to see how an EV would handle the CT like hills into town.Later in the PM we did the Tour of ithaca, home of Cornel University, and other historical stuff, like the old train and restored station, that the kind folks working therre showed us around. At one time you could rid! e the Lehigh Valley RR to Buffalo or NYC, that ended in 1961 or so. Dave took AJ his son for a spin in the Rabbit befor I hitched up to go, the last leg of my odd-esy.Off into the evening toward I 81 down to RT 17 again toward NYC, wheel bearing was about the same so I'll go for home. ASbout 60 miles into the trip Bang, banging along rt 17 it happened. Suddonly I was fighting to hold the faithful Ford on the road, amist shreeking tires and a " Whathehell is going on!? We lurched to a stop right in the right hand lane! Nobody right there to get directly involved in my acrobatics! Lucky there! Can't stay here! Put the Ford in low first gear and dragged the Rabbit off the road. Flashlight out, it didn't take long to decide the damn car was trotalled! Shoved up against the guard rail, right front tire ripped off and lower a frame twisted at a 90 degree to where it SHOULD have been! SHIT! Car's junk! It sure wiouldn't be worth fixing EVen if it were sitting in my yard! Near as I can figure the right side pin had come outof the tow bar, so t! he car was getting pulled by only the left side and my two safety chains, so it could and tried to make a right turn, but the hevier Ford dragged it sideways, BOY! Duz THAT slow you down!Alota stuff that was in the back of the Ford was up with me! It's Foggy, cold and RAINING!Ready to head pin right THERE! Hell no, my motor will live again, not dumping THAT! Jacked the Rabbit up high, lashed the two bumpers together so the Ford was carrying the weight of the Rabbit, so I could get the hell OFF the highway, streightened the left tire so it was going streight ahead, the right I had unbolted, hoping it woulfd fall off, no luck.Went about two miles to the next exit, about 10-15 miles east of Binghamton NY, dragged it into a parking lot in front of Scotty's Auto body. Rain had stopped , so it's time to strip my tired joule, when you are junking out a car it is snip-snip-snip with wirecutters, get the guages, batteries, motor, lisence plate, controller, charger. last thing to go ! was the accessery battery, plunging thre wreck intio eternal darkness. EVerything electric stuffed in the Ford, I took out a cheepo disposable camera to record the wreck. Last thing I took one of Mark Geller's " The El;ectric Car isn't Dead" things and another sheet under it saying"But THIS one is! Please give it a decent burial" I left my fone no if he wanted the the title to junk it ,formally. I havent heard from them, yet. So it lay there like a shipwreck, two spare tires chocking it up to pull the motor. I don't need the wheels and tires as this is the end of my Rabbit era,will junk my OTHER Parts Rabbit, too. So Bill Glickman, if ya got your ears on I NEED the Jetta, now!!! The Rabbit motior SHOULD bolt up tothe jetta tranny? The poor old Rabbit just couldn't take it anymore. The rear shocks punched up through the wheelwells givig it a low rider look, the front fender was sprung downward, the rust renaining fron the decay of structural metal. cv joint ripped apart, that structural part of the frame that the A-frame attaches to was folded! back, coming through the floor. too depressing for words. Before it died, it DID get a taste of fame; hobnobbing with the Fast Ones, a trip to Canada, and it's last ride ,giving Dave Stensland's kid a ride. Sure coulda been worse, like wrecking the Ford, well, to those who met my Ford, ya might say it wouldn't have looked worse. A word about the Ford; They perfected the van by '78 This old hulk ran faithfully , flawlessly, the whole trip, had the tow rig not fallen apart, I'm sure we woulda come home OK. After snapping the Last Rabbit Shots climbed in the van, and started for home again. It was a somber foggy , rain had started agasin, fitting for the ocassion, circled around the wreck, and headed for the highway. I didn't look back. I only lasted a few hours til I HAD to pull over in a diner lot to get a few hours sleep. God! Mattress and blanket is a life saver when ya need some sleep. Only had 150 miles still to go, pulled into my flooded driveway about 7am, slammed the door and went in, and to bed. Didn't really hit me til I was semi consious the next day. Ya wrecked the car! It isn't here! Godamn garage is sure empty! Dug out the 87 Nissan Sentra that has lay dorment in my garage a few years, washed the crud off it, LOOKS better! Gotta deal with the battery box issue, I think it'll be a 96 volt car?I think I cAN get this one running in short order. The Plymouth Sundance is patiently waiting in my OTHER shed. With all that I have learned on the Rabbit So I'm not short of projects, but it will be me as a watcher for awile I'll Prius to Power of DC again.So SOMEBODY get their EV on the road to replace mine! For now. But SOMETHING will Emerge from my garage or shade trees. Now you know the rest of the story. It's late so will log off, I hope your trips were more successful, from an equipment point of view? Seeya at Powr of DC Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---That low-rider could be an interesting idea. Since you say Datsun, I assume this would be the older PUs... pre-namechange? The newer (easier to find) Toyota mini-PU might work better (being relatively light weight) but perhaps 1200 lbs of batts would be the limit, w/ 300 lbs of those up front. (Perhaps a bit more weight capacity, with heavier rear springs and/or lightening the box.) The biggest prob might be with the low rider bit. They usually chop the frame for this, which might weaken it? One thing that can help with air flow is air dams, but they are hard to come by for PUs. I've seen some Mazda 2200's w/ them, but most other makes don't seem to have them directly available. Sealing the bottom (ala the early VW's) might help cut on under carriage air flow probs. You could probably also do a chop on the front end of your PU... enough so the grill-to-valence would be no higher than 18" and seal that opening w/ some body work. (That's 2 or 3 wedge sections from each fender, depending on body side style, and lengthening the hood slightly.) Chopping the original bumper and blending it into the body shape (similar to new cars) would cut resistance. These mods were done on some of the old hot rods. (They'd chop the whole body, then a 2nd chop on the top, giving a stretched vehicle look.) Not having a large engine under the hood allows for greater "chop" to the body. What to do about the back of the vehicle, though? A close fitting canopy might be the answer, along with welding the box to the cab? Hmm... that might not work if you are looking for frame twisting acceleration. I have seen caps that are blended into the cab with rubber seals, and the canopy tapers down somewhat towards the rear. It would be an interesting project to see a PU made aerodynamic. BTW, if you are looking for a glider, it's not a bad idea to look at the custom PUs out there, instead of some beater. Sure, you'll pay $4000 for an older PU, but many of them are decked out. Do it with style, as the professor said. <g> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:56 PM Subject: Re: 200 miles highway range on flooded lead acid: Is it possible? > I came across in the archives a little gem written by John > Wayland from 8 years ago. > > His proposal? A Datsun minitruck could fit as many batteries > as a Toyota Xtracab, but weighs much less. In fact, he > estimated a converted Datsun minitruck with the same amount > of batteries as "Red Beastie" as weighing 1,000 pounds less > than Red Beastie. > > So it could lend itself to much better performance than my > idea, maybe a 14-15 second 0-60 under the sane setup I > outlined for the Mazda B2000 due to more than 1,000 pounds > weight difference. The only catch is that it wouldn't be > able to seat 4 people. > > Imagine an electric lowrider built on that concept, only > with far more aerodynamic modifications than Wayland > proposed(aeroshell, side skirts, grill block, ect.). > Throwing it in Uve's calculator got me 250 miles range at 60 > mph needing roughly 230 wh/mile with 40 Trojan T145s, > assuming drag coefficient could be reduced to .25... That's > a lot of range!
--- End Message ---
