EV Digest 5513
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Valence
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: thick "primary" and "thinner wire more numerous" windings on a
rotor .. step up transformer effect ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: NiMH working but Unavailable
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV Range Records, an' stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) 5th EVer Chapter Conference Photos
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: PFC and the humming breaker
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Taperlock dilemma
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: 200 miles highway range on flooded lead acid: Is it possible?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Taperlock dilemma
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
10) RE: Finally, some progress to show
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Aerodynamics .. viktor's idea .. to reduce 'drag' to near zero
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Ampabout, Joliet Version
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Aerodynamics .. viktor's idea .. to reduce 'drag' to near zero
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: g'bye Porsche
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Ampabout, Joliet Version
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Regen - as a 'brake'
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Ampabout, Joliet Version
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: NiMH working but Unavailable
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) INTENSE - Hybrid - and EV Training -Wish we could all take iit! LONG
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Update on mine...
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Finally, some progress to show
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Aerodynamics .. viktor's idea .. to reduce 'drag' to near zero
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Semi-OT Aerodynamic Drag story
by "John J Januszewski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Regen - as a 'brake'
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Regen - as a 'brake'
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: NiMH working but Unavailable
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: NiMH working but Unavailable
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) NEWS FLASH - NEWS FLASH !!!
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Regen - as a 'brake'
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
As for Lithiums, this seems to be the best deal going as they also include
individual battery management and protection. Kokams, at about the same
price per watt hour, have better energy density but have no BMS or
protection system. This can easily add another $100 per cell ($8000 for 80
cells for 288V pack).
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Meta Bus
Sent: May 21, 2006 6:28 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Valence
Dave Roekle wrote:
> Does anyone know if Valence Technologies is delivering their 27-12XP
> Rechargeable Lithium-Ion Batteries?
I was quoted a lead-time of 60 days.
> What is the cost per battery?
$1900 each, in small quantities. For my lot of 50, only $1760 each.
That's FOB China. This is a quote from last week. The price is pretty much
the same that others were quoted a year ago (In one year, the price has not
moved).
>
> Has anyone tried them yet?
Not me.
> Pros / Cons?
Only one con, from my perspective, and I just quoted it.
I currently have 50 Deka gels, Group 31 (8G31DT), which I'd hoped to retire
and replace with the Group 27 version of the Valence lithiums.
Almost half the weight, and more than double the usable capacity (keeping
the gels above 50% DOD, while leaning on the U27's for 80%).
But I decided I'm not going to mortgage my house.
With new gels costing $150 each, FOB nearby, I can replace my pack 10 times
before spending as much as the single pack of U27's.
Regards,
Jim
>
> Dave Roekle
>
> 951-278-2370
>
> 951-278-2886 Fax
>
> AIM: daveroekle
>
> Yahoo: daveroekle
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
peekay wrote:
> ah! .. good and lucid explanation...
> the 'unanswered' part of my question:
>
> if the two wires are thick and thin and the current is generated in
> the thick wire... which induces higher voltage in the thinner wire...
The voltage in a winding is strictly determined by the number of turns.
If you wind two coils with the same number of turns but different size
wire, both generate exactly the same voltage.
When you put a load on these two coils, each produces a different
current because each has a different resistance. Thus a coil with half
the cross sectional area produces half the current. One with 1/10th the
area makes 1/10th the current.
If you use these two coils like a transformer, where one is the primary
and one is the secondary, you still get a voltage on each proportional
to the number of turns. For example, a magnetic core produces 1 volt per
turn. You wind two 100 turn coils. You put 100 volts AC into one (your
primary), and 100 volts AC comes out the other (your secondary).
But, if the secondary coil has wire of 1/10th the size, then it has 10
times the resistance, and will have 10 times the voltage drop under
load. For example, you connect some load to the secondary that causes
its voltage to drop from 100 volts AC no-load to 89 volts AC with a
1-amp load. You'll find there is a 10-volt drop in the thin secondary
coil's resistance, and a 1-volt drop in the thick primary coil's wire
resistance. 100vac - 1vac - 10vac = 89vac at 1 amp.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: NiMH working but Unavailable
> On 19 May 2006 at 15:17, Mike Phillips wrote:
>
> > >
> > > I do believe Chevron Texaco has the patent until about 2018.
> >
> > That just plain sucks. Unless of course you are the Chinese ;) They
> > just don't care.
>
> As long as they don't sell the products here. They could sell them in
most
> of Asia. But as soon as a US distributor picks up a Chinese vehicle with
> unlicensed NiMH batteries, they'd better have a darn good legal defense
> fund, because I suspect they'll get slammed.
> Hi EVerybody;
Good point, but the Asia Market could/would be hugh! China, just China,
not counting India, Japan, Korea, EVen NORTH Korea, maybe?And on to Europe,
as well as the middle East. We in the USA hafta realize that we aren't ALL
the world, although we ACT like it! When we are slamming legally, the EV
Grin would be Worldwide. Now THAT'S worth waiting up for!
Seeya at Power of DC
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: EV Range Records
> A specially prepared Solectria Sunrise did 375 miles on a charge during
the
> Tour de Sol in 1996.
>
> In 1997, James Worden drove another Sunrise prototype from Boston to New
> York (216 miles) at an average speed of 55 mph with a second passenger and
> luggage onboard.
>
> These cars were fitted with NiMH batteries - 30 kWh total energy, I
believe.
>
> Yup! And I was there! They stopped in CT for a coffee an' piss break,
in Manchester on I 84, they had an observer to make sure they didn't
plugitin, along the route. I followed them along in my old Jetta awile, as
they headed south. Oh, those were heady daze as records for distance were
falling, and EV's were being built by Big Car Co's. Gees!? the EV-1 shoulda
been capable of those ranges? I don't know how many watt hours was packed
aboard the EV-1, how did it compare with the Sunrise amp wise. I STILL think
the poor old Sunrise didn't get it's just due. Well, I put and a few of
youse other guyz did, too to buy that Sunrise body on E bay, hoping we can
DO something. And with James Worden's blessing. He would like SOMEBODY to DO
something, with it, and we will try. But to think in his shoes, he HAD a
practical 4 seater EV that worked, he was ignored, by EVerybody, automotive.
Wherethehell is the venture(Volture) capitalist's when we need them? Guess I
shoulda saved my gas money for the Sunrise Fund? Maybe 10 bux a gal gas?Hate
to say it, though.Or, better yet rationing. Worked for WW2 daze.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
We had a great time at the 5th EVer Chapter Conference in Joliet, Ill
last weekend. Despite the weather trying to play havoc with our
spirits, we prevailed. You can see what I mean at
http://www.rtpnet.org/~teaa/5thEVerThumbs.htm where in the Pep Boys
parking lot the White Zombie went fender to fender with Matt Graham's
Nissan 240 SX in a classic burnout (mpg) .
We want to thank the Fox Valley folks for all their efforts from a tour
of the Warfield motor plant to some great restaurants, to just plain
hosting this large event on a volunteer basis. Hats off to:
Todd Dore who chaired this event
Jerry Asher, Ted Lowe and the Fox Valley crew who did a lot of the
behind the scenes phone calls, leg work, coordinating, web mastering, etc.
speakers such as Ted Lowe, Ron Freund, John Wayland, Terry Wilson who
talked shop,
Sherry Boschert who presented some highlights of her soon to be
published book: "Plug In Hybrids, The car that will save America";
Fred Blood, Austin Energy Sustainability Officer, who talked about the
Plug In Partnership;
Tom Dowling who talked about a Route 66 string of chargers project
from LA to Chicago; and
Dave Goldstein who had a spirited discussion with Sherry at lunch on
whether batteries were really ready for EV commercialization.
I know that I'm forgetting a few other names and their contributions.
You know who you are, you know what you did, and you are much
appreciated for doing so. Events like this are a welcomed breath of
fresh air that helps us to get recharged.
Thanks again for a great time!!!
Peter Eckhoff, President
Triangle Electric Auto Association
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rich;
Gees! I never thought that I had a Charger issue? I charged at several
outlets at the Joliet thing with no problem. Well, since I'm carless, now
Maybe ya could check out the PFC 30 during my down time?
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 3:24 AM
Subject: Re: PFC and the humming breaker
> It sounds like the PFC30 is in need of repair.
> They do this when one of the IGBTs has failed. The PF goes away... and
Well
> Things are NOT really cool from then on.
>
> I need to know if you cleared the issue. since a PFC30 should not make a
> sound... or even slightly warm up a 100 amp breaker.
>
> Either we have a hurt charger here or... something else is really
happening.
>
> My hunch is it's something else ..since the PFC30 would have to be basicly
> melting way to put that much hurt on a 100 amp breaker...
>
> Very not good what ever it is.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 11:27 PM
> Subject: PFC and the humming breaker
>
>
> > Bob Rice stopped by here a couple of days ago, on his way back from
> Joliet.
> > He arrived with a hungry 120 volt Rabbit, so I hacked up a quick adapter
> for
> > him to plug in to the 240v 20a receptacle in my garage. Then we went
> inside
> > and watched his raw video footage for a while.
> >
> > A few hours later, I went down in the cellar for something, and noticed
> that
> > my main electrical panel was humming quite loudly. The hum was coming
> from
> > the 100 amp main breaker (it's a Square D QO type). Both it and the 50
> amp
> > QO breaker that feeds my garage subpanel were noticeably warm, though
not
> at
> > all hot.
> >
> > Bob has a 120v pack and a PFC-30 in the Rabbit. Although I didn't check
> it,
> > presumably the PFC was shoving 30 amps into the pack. (Right?) If the
> > PFC's efficiency claims are true, and I have no reason to doubt them, it
> > should have been drawing only a little over 15 amps from my 240 volt
> > receptacle. So why were the breakers getting warm? And why did the
main
> > breaker hum so loudly?
> >
> > I've never seen (heard) that effect with any other similar load. Not
even
> > with my 240v Brusa switchmode charger, nor with my 120v K&W BC-20
> glorified
> > triac light dimmer charger with its truly awful power factor. What's
the
>
> > deal here? Anyone have an idea?
> >
> > Thanks for the thoughts.
> >
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EV List Assistant Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> > or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> > To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It could indeed be cut off, preferrably on a lathe which would give you a
symmetrical piece to use in the rework.
Believe me I sympathize with your situation. I had to do a lot of research
and get help from a lot of people to get my final design done since it is so
unique (using spring plate instead of flywheel). I try to be patient,
knowing that in the next few weeks I will finally get the motor in and
hopefully it will all work right the first time.
I had to go into a machine shop forum to get a few of my questions answered.
It seems that those who do taperlocks for a living in this one don't want to
give up any information even though they know you are going to do the job
yourself. With that information and more from Moline Bearing Co., I believe
now I have a total understanding of the process. Sometimes it takes me a
bit longer to catch on to areas outside my expertise.
I will make all my design which includes a "universal" motor spacer
including the autocad and plasmacad files available for anyone who wants it
for free once it is all tested and the design is proven. Some of it could
be used with other types of adapters, not just the Saab, and I suspect that
other GM Hyundai transaxles would be similar. With just a fixed thickness
plate of aluminum and a bunch of my "spacers" you can set the precise
distance to your flywheel and avoid an expensive adapter plate by tracing
your transmission and cutting it out on a bandsaw.
Same thing with the "smart" battery charger design I have decided to start
on. I have decided to put my abilites as an EE to work on that next. I
plan to make that circuitry and the parts sources public domain as well.
Going $2K or more for a charger is outside my budget!
I am going to do my part to push EV technology along wherever I can.
Best of luck,
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: Taperlock dilemma
--- Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What if you for some reason, needed to replace the
flywheel? Now you need a new motor too!
I was thinking of welding the flywheel to the taperlock only. Then have it
machined to reduce
weight and rebalance. It wouldn't be welded to the motor. The taperlock,
in theory, should be
removable from the motor shaft. And if the flywheel needed replacing,
couldn't it be cut off the
taperlock and a new flywheel welded on?
Yes/no?
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 11:19 PM
Subject: RE: 200 miles highway range on flooded lead acid: Is it possible?
> I heard a segment on the radio yesterday that got me wondering. We
usually
> try to use small, light cars. But, instead, how about going the opposite
> way and using something like one of those old Checker Cabs? Those things
> had cavernous space inside. They even had a fold down third seat that you
> could remove for extra battery space. Big, trunk and under-hood area too.
> Yeah, they were heavy and probably not too aerodynamic, but you could fit
> scads of PbA batteries in them.
> Hi EVerybody;
Well, howbout a Lincoln? They are a tad more aero than a truck, You
could stuff a lota batteries in one, for sure!I think they have a frame,
LIKE a truk?The limo folks have the stuff to beef one up to carry the
weight, too.They STILL make Lincolns, making parts easier to get then a
Checker.
> Bill Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Tom Shay
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 2:02 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: 200 miles highway range on flooded lead acid: Is it possible?
>
> Yes, the Red Beastie concept could be improved on a little, but
> should it be? I think Beastie was an interesting demonstration
> of what can be accomplished by stuffing more batteries into a
> pickup truck. It isn't a practical electric vehicle. As I recall, it
> weighed 5300 lbs without occupants or payload. Of what use
> is a pickup truck that is already 1000 lbs overloaded before
> adding occupants or payload?
>
> I wonder if anyone has built a copy of Beastie or if she's one of
> a kind?
>
> Steve Clunn ,I think has 40 floodies in his work truck, the one he dump
charges his E mowers with?
Seeya
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dave & all,
I know you're very anxious to get going but I would at least call the vendor
back and discuss it with him. Bolting the motor up seems like a major goal, and
I guess it is, but it's just a small piece of whole conversion puzzle -
probably the most straight forward piece at that.
So when you consider all the work and time you are going to invest in your
conversion, you might want to consider getting a hub that bolts up to the
flywheel. Knowing you have that right to begin with will be a good starting
point for all the trials and tribulations that lie ahead.
Didn't mean to get too philosophical.
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Suppose you had a brand new shiny taperlock hub. You waited a long time to
> get
> it and were anxious
> to install your motor to build your EV. But there was a problem. The vendor
> drilled the holes
> wrong so you cannot bolt your clutch to the hub. Would there be a problem
> with
> throwing out the
> bolts and having the hub welded directly to the flywheel? Isn't this what
> Gadget
> recommends. I was
> planning on having the flywheel machined to lighten it, maybe I can find a
> machine shop that could
> do both procedures at the same time. It would probably be the fastest way to
> fix
> the problem. I'm
> not worried about the longevity of the flywheel, it won't be getting much
> abuse
> anymore. And I'm
> not interested in taking the time to send the hub back to have them do it
> right.
> I just want to
> get the car together.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Cover
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave,
Looks pretty sharp. What kind of vehicle is that? I spot painted my Warp
9 with Ford Red after I welded the mounting tabs onto it. This before I
heard from Ryan at EVSource that Warfield used a paint they had labled as
"Bright Red". Well not much of a biggie as it is still pretty close. You
can see the difference in color in my pics at
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756 . Its only a slight difference and
yours being totally painted the same color will not cause many to know the
differnce.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
-----Original Message-----
Dave Cover wrote:
...Unfortunately, when I chose a color to paint the motor, I didn't know
what color Warfield used for
their motors. It is an ADC 9", but it was so rusted and corroded I sand
blasted all the paint off.
I thought the Ford red would be stand out nicely. Oh well.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> So... how about mounting a model car on a counterweighted arm. Spin it
> with an electric motor. Control the motor voltage to control the
> airspeed of the car). Measure the motor current to determine its
> aerodynamic drag. You could even include the effect of the road by
> putting a stationary ring around the outside, just barely missing the
> wheels of the car.
>
This is a clever idea. Thanks for bringing it to my attention Lee.
I seem to remember that when you reduce the size of your model you have to
increase the airspeed to see the correct relative drag.
I.e. at a given airspeed a 1/20 scale model sees less than 1/20 of the
drag of the full size item.
Does anyone know what the scaling factor I would have to apply to a 1/10
scale model? I.e. how fast will I have to spin it to see the same drag
effect as the full size version.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow what a bummer!
The "Lead Sled" was the first and so far the only EV Heidi and I have had the
opportunity to ride in much less drive. So, we have a very fond memory of
the EV that could -- and in fact did! We will never forget it's show stopping
burn-out! and it's not-so-suttle messages. It is sad that it has died, but,
at least it died after a grand performance!
Rest in peace, Lead Sled! You will go down in very fond history.
All our best,
Ken & Heidi Thomas
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a great idea for a poor man's wind tunnel Lee!
Victor
Lee Hart wrote:
So... how about mounting a model car on a counterweighted arm. Spin it
with an electric motor. Control the motor voltage to control the
airspeed of the car). Measure the motor current to determine its
aerodynamic drag. You could even include the effect of the road by
putting a stationary ring around the outside, just barely missing the
wheels of the car.
Now you an experiment with various aerodynamic mods with ease. Buy a
model car kit of your favorite car, and try all the mods and testing
with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
From, Michael Bearden:
>Hello EV’ers...I have been having a great EV time though driving the
slick 914 conversion…until last Sunday morning, when it was the >5 AM
wake up call for our rural neighborhood when it went up in flames very
spectacularly.
Andrew Letton wrote:
Hi Michael-
Sorry to hear of your loss!
I too, am sorry to hear of this, Michael. Glad you and your home are OK.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ken an' Heidi;
Thanks for the kind thoughts. Glad to have had you guyz a ride before
it's demise. It carried a message that EV's are here and now. Now out to the
garage to build something new!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: Ampabout, Joliet Version
> Wow what a bummer!
>
> The "Lead Sled" was the first and so far the only EV Heidi and I have had
the
> opportunity to ride in much less drive. So, we have a very fond memory of
> the EV that could -- and in fact did! We will never forget it's show
stopping
> burn-out! and it's not-so-suttle messages. It is sad that it has died,
but,
> at least it died after a grand performance!
> Rest in peace, Lead Sled! You will go down in very fond history.
>
> All our best,
>
> Ken & Heidi Thomas
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't use off-throttle regen and have a lever (slide pot) on the shift
stick to control it. so I do use coasting ability until actually
deceleleration needed than then use regen to a full stop.
I've tried off-throttle regen, but didn't like it. It can also be
unexpectedly dangerous! One time while driving on a freeway I had
to stretch my arm to reach something in the trunk area (CRX hatch
back, no separate trunk). I turn my body to seat more comfortable
so I can reach and for the moment right foot was off the pedal,
normally this would cause natural coasting. Well, I felt like I suddenly
slammed on the brakes! Contrary to the first unconscious impulse to hit
the brakes at the moment of danger, I had to hit accelerator to rectify
the situation (which required to think for a second or so.
VERY luckily there was no one behind - the car almost came to a stop
in a mid lane on the I84 freeway.
I don't use off-throttle regen since then.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Wow what a bummer!
Ditto!
We will never forget it's show stopping
burn-out!
Nor will I! Bob Rice and his wet cell powered lead sled stole the show.
I'm disappointed that Bob didn't take my advice and entitle his post
'Lead Sled Smokes White Zombie!' Bob's burnout was Rudmanesque and one
of the best I've seen.
It is sad that it has died, but,
at least it died after a grand performance!
Indeed.
Rest in peace, Lead Sled! You will go down in very fond history.
I too, am sad to see this EV go away. I feel lucky now, that I got to
take it for a spin in Joliet with Bob by my side. It's off-line
acceleration to say, 20 mph, was pretty impressive considering its hefty
weight. I know Bob will have another EV up and running soon.
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Carl Brown, electric 7:
http://www.electric7.com/
Victor
John Westlund wrote:
I don't remember the guy's name, but he had a Lotus 7
replica that used mutliple Prius packs. I think it had about
12 miles range, or something absurdely low like that.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello EVers, and PHEVers:
Back from TWO Totally assume days in L.A. at a training seminar held
by Automotive Research and Design, and moderated and taught by a Dr.
Mark Quarto, who is a GM EV, Hybrid, and Fuel cell Engineer ...He had
LOTS of little secret tid-bits to relate to us about GMs Hybrid plans
and Past missed opportunities like their 4 door EV1 Hybrid, and various
Series Hybrid experiments... The study material is over 4 inches HIGH.
Many hand-outs on sub-systems and such, I have never even heard of.
Except for a few DEEPLY Involved individuals into Hybrids, I do not
think most of us realize how Complex, and how much Engineering has gone
into these cars.
The class was mostly College and Trade School Instructors. Four were
from Washington State ! So these guys ALL knew there Auto Electrics,
and beyond. And we all went away saying... "How in the HE#@ is the
average young wrench jockey EVER going to assimilate all of this DATA"
And with Each New Hybrid, ( or Plug-In-Hybrid ) even more Technology on
top of the old. I mean.... here are just a few technical tid-bits
even I had not heard of... SuperiorFlatAbsoluteAngleSensors,
Resolver-Based Servo Systems, High Voltage Differential Probes,
Percentage of Negative and Positive SLIP, Variable Freq. Drive, Motor
Control Waveforms-sign,trapazoid,six-step,and square, Reflectrometerics,
Resolvers! HV Isolation Fault Detection and the FMVSS305-Federal Code!
One of the more interesting students was Jack Rosebro, a reporter for
Green Car Congress News ( a free news web site ) He knew almost as much
about EV and Hybrid news as the instructor, and brought several Toyota
Prius electronic Sub-Systems for all of us to see. ( I didn't know that
the power inverter had its own little liquid cooling system !)
Did you know that SANYO supplies the NiMetHyd batteries for FORD, and
that SANYO made Ford install ACTIVE COOLING ! The battery tray has TWO
fans and the Air Conditioning Goes to the back of the car ALL THE TIME!
And that Ford has a secret Switch, with a BOOST Inverter, which in an
Emergency can take 12V battery and boost it to 330 volts to re-charge
(partially..) the HV - pack.. COOL !!! It is far more detail than I
have heard they give out at regular Toyota Training Courses... For it
covered Toyota, GM, Ford, and Honda.
Lots of stuff on Pre-Charge Interlocks, Safety Interlocks, Fault Codes,
CAN communications, and on and on and ON...
Only DOWN side to all of this... these classes are $595. And should be 4
days LONG. then there is air-fair, food, lodging..etc. Most of the
Teachers and Prof's got paid by there respective schools. But if the
classes come to your Home-Town..Ya got to GO!! Check them out at:
www.autoresearchanddesign.com
..But make sure you get Mark Quarto as your instructor.. He is
simply GREAT !
For the fellows in Seattle ( SEVA ) I will bring all the materials for
you all to see. ( OR perhaps, we should have a special meeting, for
those interested in the Hybrids and PHEV's.
PS: I may be under the influence of .." A Little Knowledge is a
Dangerous Thing" ...but how we are going at these cars with our common
sense aproaches... concerns me when you look at all the CAN
communications, and interlocks, and Safety Procedures....
Tell me everything is OK !!!
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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Well, I took out the standard loom today and had a we look at the
car's underside. It looks as though I can get at least one lead-acid
battery per side underneath the passenger seat, four in the trunk and
another six up front. That should leave me with a 112 volt system if
I go for 12vs.
Does anyone have a good UK source for getting deep charge batteries
from? I'm wanting to see what sort of dimensions I will need to bear
in mind for the battery compartments.
Cheers
Nikki
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--- Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What kind of vehicle is that?
It's a Porsche 944. Whats really nice is that the motor is bolted driectly
through the bell
housing to a torque tube which bolts directly to the transaxle. So when I build
my front mounts, I
don't have to worry about the motor twisting. I just have to support the motor
sufficiently to
hold the weight, road shocks, etc. I'm planning on making an inverted U shaped
frame that the
motor will hang off of. The two ends of the U will sit directly on the original
motor mounts. I
have a waist strap type mount to go around the motor and I'll bolt this to the
U frame. Sounds
simple, we'll just have to see how my welding skills are.
Dave Cover
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You would be about 30% out on your CD with that setup. It doesn't
accurately model the interference between the rolling tires, the
moving road and the underside of the car. You need both the car
and the road moving and preferably with the wheels in contact.
Also with a small model you have a harder time measuring small changes.
Most of the changes are going to be in the 3-4% range max.
If the shape is the same the Cd should be the same. The rest is scale
effect which means Reynolds numbers. Say the full size car is doing 50 mph
and is 12 feet long. It has a Re of ~466000 which is pretty low which causes
other flow problems. Re = 12x50x778 (the 778 # varies but its close enough)
Lets say your model is 1 foot long. So to get the same numbers for accuracy
Speed(mph)= 466000/(1x778) or 598 mph. That's moving along pretty good so
your only real option are a water tunnel, computer, or do the full size
test.
Dave
> So... how about mounting a model car on a counterweighted arm. Spin it
> with an electric motor. Control the motor voltage to control the
> airspeed of the car). Measure the motor current to determine its
> aerodynamic drag. You could even include the effect of the road by
> putting a stationary ring around the outside, just barely missing the
> wheels of the car.
>
> Now you an experiment with various aerodynamic mods with ease. Buy a
> model car kit of your favorite car, and try all the mods and testing
> with it.
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Hi Guys,
I have a little story about aerodrag that happened to me today.
I have a 2001 Ranger Pickup 3.0 liter 6 cyl w/5-speed automatic trans.
With your foot to the floor it will only go 90 MPH because of an engine
computer speed governor that cuts out the fuel injection at 90 MPH.
I bought a 24' extension ladder today at Home Depot and strapped it to the
bed of the truck with about 3-4 ft of it above the cab and about 3 ft of it
aft of the tail gate. At about a 20-30 deg angle it didn't really stick up
that much above the cab. I used 6 ratchety straps, so it wasn't going to
blow off of there.
I left HD and got right on the expressway to go to my shop. Foot to the
floor and it wouldn't go any faster than 74 MPH before it had to down shift
to 3rd to get the leverage it needed to accelerate. Then it would get up to
74 and then down shift again. I let it do that 2 or three times and then
just resigned myself to going slower than 74 MPH. Around here 80 MPH gets
you run off the road as too slow.
Just a few feet of ladder at a shallow angle will hobble you at highway
speeds, even with an ICE.
For what it's worth, there it is.
Be well.
John J Januszewski
www.jcomposites.com
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> I don't use off-throttle regen and have a lever (slide pot) on the
shift
> stick to control it. so I do use coasting ability until actually
> deceleleration needed than then use regen to a full stop.
>
> I've tried off-throttle regen, but didn't like it. It can also be
> unexpectedly dangerous! One time while driving on a freeway I had
> to stretch my arm to reach something in the trunk area (CRX hatch
> back, no separate trunk). I turn my body to seat more comfortable
> so I can reach and for the moment right foot was off the pedal,
> normally this would cause natural coasting. Well, I felt like I
suddenly
> slammed on the brakes! Contrary to the first unconscious impulse to hit
> the brakes at the moment of danger, I had to hit accelerator to rectify
> the situation (which required to think for a second or so.
>
> VERY luckily there was no one behind - the car almost came to a stop
> in a mid lane on the I84 freeway.
>
> I don't use off-throttle regen since then.
>
> Victor
>
I envy the ability to get that much regen - have you been able to
impliment anything off the brake pedal? It would be nice to engage the
hydraulics lower and use that gap for some of the pot movement,
keeping the hand control to vary the intensity of the pedal input.
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I use two forms of regen. Just a little amount on "off throttle", maybe
about 10 amps. I am able to glide, just by lightly keeping my foot on the
throttle. Then I have another 30 amps when I just touch the brake pedal
(hooked to the brake pedal light switch). I have not yet hooked up the hand
pot like Victor's but even this rudementary regen works quite well.
All my driving is in the city. Even with using gliding technique, I get
from 5% to 7% energy back through regen.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: May 21, 2006 3:43 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Regen - as a 'brake'
> I don't use off-throttle regen and have a lever (slide pot) on the
shift
> stick to control it. so I do use coasting ability until actually
> deceleleration needed than then use regen to a full stop.
>
> I've tried off-throttle regen, but didn't like it. It can also be
> unexpectedly dangerous! One time while driving on a freeway I had to
> stretch my arm to reach something in the trunk area (CRX hatch back,
> no separate trunk). I turn my body to seat more comfortable so I can
> reach and for the moment right foot was off the pedal, normally this
> would cause natural coasting. Well, I felt like I
suddenly
> slammed on the brakes! Contrary to the first unconscious impulse to
> hit the brakes at the moment of danger, I had to hit accelerator to
> rectify the situation (which required to think for a second or so.
>
> VERY luckily there was no one behind - the car almost came to a stop
> in a mid lane on the I84 freeway.
>
> I don't use off-throttle regen since then.
>
> Victor
>
I envy the ability to get that much regen - have you been able to impliment
anything off the brake pedal? It would be nice to engage the hydraulics
lower and use that gap for some of the pot movement, keeping the hand
control to vary the intensity of the pedal input.
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That setup looks ridiculously complicated.
I see no mention of range on his sitre. Maybe I was thinking
of another car?
Has Carl shared with you any range figures?
A 107 horsepower Siemens motor would make a light car like
that go... If it weighs around 1500-1800 pounds, 0-60 is
probably in the 6-7 second range. Even faster if weight is
less...
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>Carl Brown, electric 7:
>
>http://www.electric7.com/
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John, I am confused, what aspect of the electric 7 looks ridiculously
complicated? Is it the wiring? The mechanical setup? The NiMH batteries?
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Westlund
Sent: May 21, 2006 5:14 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: NiMH working but Unavailable
That setup looks ridiculously complicated.
I see no mention of range on his sitre. Maybe I was thinking of another car?
Has Carl shared with you any range figures?
A 107 horsepower Siemens motor would make a light car like that go... If it
weighs around 1500-1800 pounds, 0-60 is probably in the 6-7 second range.
Even faster if weight is less...
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>Carl Brown, electric 7:
>
>http://www.electric7.com/
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While attending the U-District Street Fair ( just hours ago...) Saw a
booth for the Seattle International Film Festival...(SIFF) So I
introduced my self, gave the guy one of my Biz.Cards, and told him about
CalCars, and San Francisco, and seeing the Film " Who killed the
Electric Car" in San Francisco.... and the After Show Party... and
that I have been working on the SIFF folks to SHOW the film... Well...
He had a schedule there... so FRANTICALLY We riffled through the
schedule...
AND THERE IT WAS !!! It will BE HERE !
I literally Jumped UP and Down with JOY...
June 9th, 7 pm at the Egyptian Theater,
and June 10th, at 11 am at the Neptune Theater.
Check with the SIFF Web Site to make sure nothing changes...
Great News.... R I G H T !!!!
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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This is also the way that my Soleq EVCort works. If you remove your foot
completely from the accelerator than it will free wheel or coast. However, if
you just pull back a little on the accelerator then it will regen at about 25
Amps (adjustable with a pot on the center console) It also has 0 - 225 Amps
regen through the first 3/4" of the brake pedal.
This is a special DC system with a custom controller and shunt wound motor.
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I use two forms of regen. Just a little amount on "off throttle", maybe
> about 10 amps. I am able to glide, just by lightly keeping my foot on the
> throttle. Then I have another 30 amps when I just touch the brake pedal
> (hooked to the brake pedal light switch). I have not yet hooked up the hand
> pot like Victor's but even this rudementary regen works quite well.
>
> All my driving is in the city. Even with using gliding technique, I get
> from 5% to 7% energy back through regen.
>
> Don
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