EV Digest 5552
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get? Not very, it shouldn't!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Advice for FIL: NEV, Hybrid, or...?
by Patrick Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Nilar batts, an' Good Stuff.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Zilla Z1K - Best Choice?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EAA Cookout
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Does any one have "Lic. Plate Envy ?"
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Ford Chargers Available
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Electric/EV basic knowledge
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Percent Difference
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Electric/EV basic knowledge
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) curtis 1231
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Percent Difference
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Alan Geenspan breifing US senate commitee on EVs
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Electric/EV basic knowledge
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Need Advice -- Gel pack rejuvenation plan
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Percent Difference
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Extending range
by Seppo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Does any one have "Lic. Plate Envy ?"
by "EVDave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Pic stuff (was) LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
Hi EVerybody, Chuck, too;
Snipa lot
Those 200 degreez stuff is scary!It shouldnt get that hot!!! I mean the
cable. I guess everything else is running cool or warm to the touch?Right?
My down home approach to this cable heating is simple; feel areound with
your fingers after a brisk drive. Works for finding bum batteries, too.
> That 10" cable was made in 2001. Full of noalox, so
> corrosion should not be a problem, with heat-shrink tubing with
> melt-able liner. ?? A bit of thermal cycling that got worse and
> worse?
>
Sounds like your cable end is just tired out. The thermal cycling thing
has gotten to you. Maybe, or definately a bum crimp when it was new, and the
thermal thing just tired out the connection? Now, IF I could solder you a
new terninal on that there cable, it would run stone cold! Try re crimping
it, or clipping it off and crimping, if you must, a new one on.
My two ohms worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After a recent visit and subsequent conversations, my FIL has become
more interested in EVs. He actually was thinking of buying one of the
new Xebras initially (those pseudo-NEVs available in Salem), but now is
considering a Prius hybrid instead.
Are there any viable options in between those ends of the spectrum?
Might anyone have any recommendations for a guy who enjoys his
tech-toys, but doesn't want to build it himself? He's outside Madison,
WI - anyone know of anything available in that area, and perhaps more
importantly long term, anyone who'll work on EV's in that area (he
probably wouldn't want to do much maintenance himself)? Perhaps the
hybrid might be a better choice for him? Personally, I wondered if a
non-N EV would be better, IF he could find a turn-key solution that was
reliable and spiffy enough.
Given that he was considering what amounts to a glorified NEV, I don't
think his speed/range requirements are as high as his fit/finish, ease
of use requirements. Wisconsin's pretty flat and he doesn't have a long
commute. I'm certain he wants a turn-key solution. Any comments or
thoughts would be welcome.
FWIW, here were his comments on the topic for more background. I don't
know anything about Dynasty, but I have the impression that hydrogen
fuel cells will be vapor-ware for some time to come. (also, haven't the
hybrids had regen for some time now?):
> I've seen some neat NEVs on the Internet and one is from the Dynasty
> Electric Car Corp. in Canada. They have some cool models for around
> $10,000 and the company is working on a hydrogen fuel cell. There's
> a dealer in Seattle in fact.
> But, here's the rubber (no pun). The 2006 Toyota Prius has another
> advancement that delivers 60 MPG city and 55 MPG highway. The 60 MPG
> city is due to the electric motor doing most of the starting and
> stopping. One improvement for 2006 is a computerized regulator that
> charges the batteries whenever the brakes are applied. The brakes
> engage a generator which charges the batteries.
> Well, the point is we can buy the Toyota for $21,000 just twice the
> amount for an NEV and you can drive the Toyota on real highways.
> So, as the car manufacturers get better, the alternative fuel
> vehicles will suffer (my opinion).
Do you think he's on the right track? Any information that I should pass
on to him that might be helpful in making a good choice (both in general
and in specifics)?
Thanks again!
- Patrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> All were masterpieces of workmanship.
Something that is sadly lacking in the current, younger, American culture.
What happened to us...
Ok, now I am way off topic...
--
joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: Nilar batts
> More good information - I had not heard anything about these batteries not
> liking to be in parallel, etc.....guess I'm back to "good ol' lead
acid!!!".
> Thanks again for all the input - you folks have already saved me a ton
of
> money and heart ache!!!
>
> Mike
>
> Mike, an' All;
That's what we're here for! Friends don't let friends, like work in a
closed garage or under big shade tree ALONE, trying to reinvent the EV,
formally the Wheel.When I see a guy post that I feel Great, we are doing
good, in this "noewadaze" the World needs all the help it can get!I see
alota new faces on here, of late. Great, I can say " Seeya" and mean it at
an EVent.So you newbees, come on out to a NEDRA EVent if you can. Lets see
ya in person, go for Pizza after the races, have fun.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought Golftech was out of business. Logisystems in TX is doing repairs
now. They also claim to be on the verge of offering new 156vdc controllers.
Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla Z1K - Best Choice?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 12:24 AM
> Subject: RE: Zilla Z1K - Best Choice?
>
>
> > So what are you going to do with the dead body?
> >
> > Sorry but my dumpster diveing side is kicking in ;)
> >
> > Don't throw it away. I think Golf Tech fixes them, as well as Curtis,
> themselves? I think thery upgrade them for more amps, but it isn't
cheap.Hit
> them up on line.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
It's that time of year, again! Our annual EAA Northeast Chapter picnic, an'
Cookout. Rain or shine, no EV vortex here weather wise! So if ya find yourself
in South Central Connecticut, come on over! Starting off around noon, or when
ya can get here. Standard Fare; Hot dogs, hamburglers, Potatoe salid, sodas,
munchies. Open Grill, if ya wanna do something ,more creative?
This is all on this coming Sat. the 10th, my place in Killingworth an easy
hours plus drive from Worcester area and closer from Hartford area! Bring yur
EV, got plenty of juicy outlets, 120 or 240 volts up to 200 amp service the
house has.Charge yur RAV-4 or EV-1! Sigh! I can keep the vids going of the last
few EVents I have done, on the TV. Probably rain like hell, like today, so
we'll be inside. Raining fine right now wed, maybe it'll run out by Sat?
Seeya
Bob.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This PLATE:
( http://home.comcast.net/~stevenslough/OneHundredOneMPG.jpg )
is sitting on one of our friends Volvo's. It is NOT a vanity Plate,
it was just a number which came up in the normal sequence...
My sister WORKS for a franchised Wa.State Lice Agency... So I called
her and asked her if This Plate could be transferred to someone ..
... how should I put it... More Deserving !
And unfortunately she said she does not think it is possible...
Too Bad... I know one guy here in Wa. State, with the enitials
Ryan Fulcher... would probably PAY BIG BUCKS to have that plate.
Sorry Ryan....
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was contacted by Linda Zeiber of First Energy Corp. They have 10
chargers for factory Ford Ranger EVs, and are looking for homes for
them. Price negotiable. I don't have any details, contact her
directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 610-921-6252.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some of those Radio Shack kits rock. I still think about getting one
to see what new stuff they teach. Go for it. There is an abundance of
lore in the EV world, so education from a reliable source will searve
you well.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Patrick Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Greetings EV-ers.
>
> As a newbie who feels quite ignorant about things electrical when he
> reads this list - not stupid, just ignorant (ok, well I sometimes FEEL
> stupid, too, but honest...) - I'd like to educate myself on the topic.
> Not looking for an EE degree, but a good basic understanding of
> electricity that would give me some base to be applied here in the EV
> world. I'd like to be able to *follow* these conversations here, and
get
> more than just a vague feeling of what folks are talking about when
they
> get into charging/controllers/motors discussions, etc.
>
> Can anyone recommend a course of action/study? Electricity for Dummies?
> Don't laugh (ok, but keep it down to a dull roar, eh?), but the Mrs
> wants to buy me one of those Radio Shack type "Electric Lab" kits..
> should I let her or is that too toylike? Any online courses that aren't
> too expensive? I'm not (initially at least, one never knows!)
looking to
> change careers, but I think I'd really enjoy having *some* sort of
> grounding (so to speak) in electrical matters, especially as they
> pertain to this EVer-so-intriquing hobby/endeavour!
> Prefer something I can pursue on my own schedule, which is pretty full
> at the moment. Assume no prior knowledge/experience, but a quick study
> when motivated.
>
> Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice.
> - Patrick
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How would you measure the percentage by which one amperage is more than a
second amperage? I'm specifically thinking of the case where you parallel
charge two strings with different amp-hour capacities. Let's say one string
is twice the amp-hours of the other. During charging, the larger amp-hour
string should get around 2/3 of the charging current and the smaller
amp-hour string around 1/3. I was wondering if there was a way to test if
one or the other one was getting too much current, and turning off the
charger if so, since it might mean that one cell had reversed or some other
problem. Comparing percentages should let the comparator work regardless of
the charging amps.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Patrick and all,
Any online courses that aren't too expensive? I'm not (initially at
least, one never knows!) looking to change careers, but I think I'd
really enjoy having *some* sort of grounding (so to speak) in
electrical matters
Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice.
- Patrick
I see this site come up often when I'm doing searches on electrical
topics, and have found it useful:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Summer Special - Free shipping on all orders over $500!
Includes Zillas, WarP and Impulse Motors, and PFC Chargers
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Microchip has a great... and I mean great... free IDE for their
compiler/assembler/programmer/simulator/debugger. It'd be crazy to
mess around with third party stuff.
Writing C isn't hard at all. And it's pretty powerful.
There aren't a lot of 8-pin PICs. The usefulness of such a device is
quite limited. A good starting chip is the PIC18F2520, a 28-pin
device. For more pins, the 40-pin PIC18F4520 (4620, 4680 are more
powerful versions). If you're really serious about keeping the pin
count down, PIC18F1320. All these are available in both DIP and SOIC
versions. Anything more than 40 pins is going to be in a serious SMD
pkg, such as TQFP/QFN 64, 80, or 100. Don't be afraid of surface mount
stuff, it's not as problematic to hand solder as it first appears.
There are many web pages describing several techniques people have used
to make it a breeze.
Danny
Mike Phillips wrote:
Being able to install a lookup table etc would make my EV life easier.
I only know ancient BASIC. So then I have to try and tackle C to get
into uP's? I know there is the basic stamp, but I need something small
like in an 8 pin DIP that I can learn to program. Is there a Pic or
Atmel guide for pack smokin' Ultra Dummy's?
A small uP would allow me to make a very adjustable and communicative
bms as well as a monitoring system. Not to mention thermal fan hardware.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On a side note about using PIC micro's There are loads of free
simulators, free software, and low cost build it yourself programmers
for PIC.
One of the PIC books I got(mike or mark predo, ok but not great author)
comes with a board that you populate and links to free software, but I
found better software.
windows :
http://www.oshonsoft.com/
this software is great for the price.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have a Curtis 1231 (500 Amp in the Ford Escort)
purchased in the year 1997
As you push the pedal, a "whine" is made on purpose by the controller so
that if in a parking lot, you can't run over someone who doesn't hear you
coming (as explained to us by EVAmerica when we asked about it.)
the electric motor (we used the Advanced DC 9" is fairly silent at low
speeds, but you'll hear it at higher RPM's. nothing bad, just noticeable.)
are any other DC motors more silent?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've had a couple 4 string packs. One lead acid and two nimh. What I
do is use an inductive DC clamp meter to look at the current going
into each string. The current has everything to do with the internal
resistance of each string, rather than the ah's.
If your smaller string has lower resistance it will take more of the
available amps, until you make them stop.
In the end, parallel strings need to be charged separately in order to
have any chance of being charged correctly.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> How would you measure the percentage by which one amperage is more
than a
> second amperage? I'm specifically thinking of the case where you
parallel
> charge two strings with different amp-hour capacities. Let's say
one string
> is twice the amp-hours of the other. During charging, the larger
amp-hour
> string should get around 2/3 of the charging current and the smaller
> amp-hour string around 1/3. I was wondering if there was a way to
test if
> one or the other one was getting too much current, and turning off the
> charger if so, since it might mean that one cell had reversed or
some other
> problem. Comparing percentages should let the comparator work
regardless of
> the charging amps.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
I only saw this article,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/07/AR2006060700625.html
and a similar one on Reuters in text.
The video link was for a live showing.
any idea if the testimony text is anywhere?
Thanks, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Soldering SMT is my forte. C is not. I've seen several small 8 pin
uP's make a small project work well. I thought for sure PIC would have
some too.
Every time I look a C I just don't get it.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Microchip has a great... and I mean great... free IDE for their
> compiler/assembler/programmer/simulator/debugger. It'd be crazy to
> mess around with third party stuff.
>
> Writing C isn't hard at all. And it's pretty powerful.
>
> There aren't a lot of 8-pin PICs. The usefulness of such a device is
> quite limited. A good starting chip is the PIC18F2520, a 28-pin
> device. For more pins, the 40-pin PIC18F4520 (4620, 4680 are more
> powerful versions). If you're really serious about keeping the pin
> count down, PIC18F1320. All these are available in both DIP and SOIC
> versions. Anything more than 40 pins is going to be in a serious SMD
> pkg, such as TQFP/QFN 64, 80, or 100. Don't be afraid of surface mount
> stuff, it's not as problematic to hand solder as it first appears.
> There are many web pages describing several techniques people have used
> to make it a breeze.
>
> Danny
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
>
> >Being able to install a lookup table etc would make my EV life easier.
> >I only know ancient BASIC. So then I have to try and tackle C to get
> >into uP's? I know there is the basic stamp, but I need something small
> >like in an 8 pin DIP that I can learn to program. Is there a Pic or
> >Atmel guide for pack smokin' Ultra Dummy's?
> >
> >A small uP would allow me to make a very adjustable and communicative
> >bms as well as a monitoring system. Not to mention thermal fan
hardware.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeff Shanab <ev@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>On a side note about using PIC micro's There are loads of free
> >>simulators, free software, and low cost build it yourself programmers
> >>for PIC.
> >>
> >>One of the PIC books I got(mike or mark predo, ok but not great
author)
> >>comes with a board that you populate and links to free software, but I
> >>found better software.
> >>
> >>windows :
> >>
> >>http://www.oshonsoft.com/
> >>
> >>this software is great for the price.
> >>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Welcome to the EVDL Patrick
This site has been online for almost 12 years, I highly recommend it as a
learning resource-
Educate yourself about electricity here-
http://amasci.com/ele-edu.html
Lose your misconceptions here-
http://amasci.com/miscon/elect.html
http://amasci.com/miscon/miscon.html
Got content? You could spend weeks here,
Homepage-
http://amasci.com
4QD is a motor controller manufacturer for small EVs in the UK, they have
great resources for learning how motors and controllers operate-
http://www.4qd.co.uk/faq/index.html
Homepage-
http://www.4qd.co.uk
And... read the archives of the EVDL, an encyclopedia of EV info.
More links below.
HTH
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA Northwest Regional Race Director
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> All were masterpieces of workmanship.
Joe Vitek wrote:
> Something that is sadly lacking in the current, younger, American culture.
> What happened to us...
I do a lot of work in schools, with 4th-6th graders
(www.bestoutreach.com). We help them to build EVs; (see, we're back
on-topic :-)
I find that kids haven't changed. They are still marvelously energetic,
curious, creative, and adaptive. However, the environment we have placed
them in has changed. It don't reward energy; it encourages passive
entertainment (watch TV, play computer games). Curiosity and
experimentation are frowned upon; kids are expected to accept answers
from authority without question, and conform. Violence, selfishness, and
greed are everywhere in the media, leading them to believe that this is
what constitutes normal behavior for adults.
So, kids conform! They become just the sort of people that can survive
in the environment.
So why don't we (Americans) build things any more? It seems to me that
today's adults have climbed the ladder of technology, and then sawed off
all the rungs below them! Most homes don't have any tools, so kids can't
learn to use them by building a tree house or fixing a flat on their
bike tire. Parents just say, "Don't climb trees" or "I'll buy you a new
bike". Most construction toys are so simplistic and formulaic that you
can't build anything truly useful or interesting (generic Lego bricks
are replaced by special one-use-only parts that just build one thing;
101-in-1 electronic kits for 101 stupid projects, and don't teach
anything about soldering, reading part values, how circuits work, etc.)
To become a skilled scientist, engineer, technician, or mechanic; you
have to start practicing at an early age. Kids are naturally born to do
this. They learn by experimenting (adults call it "fooling around").
They practice constantly (adults call it "play"). They learn to build
things by first taking them apart (adults call it "breaking your toys").
Their first attempts to make things are pitiful -- but if they're
encouraged, and you show them how to do better, they'll improve.
When you're at the bottom rung of a technology, you have to start
simple. In effect, you have to build the ladder yourself, rung by rung!
Start by disassembling (wrecking) things, just to see how they're built.
Disassemble a bike, or a dead battery charger. You'll learn to use tools
in the process.
Re-assemble the parts into very simple circuits, and get them to work.
Use the bike parts to build a go-kart, or get a simplified version of
that battery charger working.
Learn to measure things for yourself. If you can't measure it, you don't
really know what you're doing. Use that battery charger you built to
test some old batteries; learn how they REALLY work (as opposed to all
the old wive's tales and misinformation on the internet).
Something like the Brueggemann meter is an ideal first project. It's
simple, and lends itself to extensive customization and improvement!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you give me a reasonably sized task, I'll be happy to write you some
demo code and annotate it with what each line does.
Danny
Mike Phillips wrote:
Soldering SMT is my forte. C is not. I've seen several small 8 pin
uP's make a small project work well. I thought for sure PIC would have
some too.
Every time I look a C I just don't get it.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Meta Bus wrote:
>> I have a string of buddy pairs, 8G31DT (size 31 gel 12v Deka
>> Dominators), which are currently dead-flat, and have been lying
>> in that state for months. I am going to attempt to bring them
>> back from the dead... can someone help me predict what to expect?
Joe Smalley wrote:
> Here are two predictions:
> 1. You will be unable to draw even 2 amps from the power supply
> because some or all of the batteries are open circuits.
>
> 2. You will be unable to limit the current into the batteries because
> some of them refuse to go above 10 volts.
I agree. Most of them will behave like nearly open circuits, but you may
also have some dead/shorted cells just to complicate things. So, it is
impractical to try to rejuvenate them as a series string. You'll have to
open up the pack, and rejuvenate them individually.
> A better choice would be to connect each battery in series with a 100 watt
> 120 VAC light bulb, a >200PIV 3 amp diode (cathode toward the battery
> positive) and a 120 VAC source.
I wouldn't use such a drastic overvoltage supply; a 24vdc supply is
plenty for rejuvenating a 12v battery. If 24v won't bring it back, give
up. "He's dead, Jim".
A light bulb works well as a current limiter, in case there's a shorted
cell. The initial current will probably be quite low, but it will
g-r-a-d-u-a-l-l-y rise as the battery moves away from 100% dead. Note
that it may take DAYS for the current to stop rising.
Once the current stops rising, remove this high-voltage current-limited
charger. Wait a while, and check the open circuit battery voltage. If
it's around 12v or more, it's OK -- continue charging with a normal 12v
charger. If it hasn't come up to at least 12v, you probably have a
shorted cell -- the battery is shot.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> How would you measure the percentage by which one amperage is more
> than a second amperage? I'm specifically thinking of the case where
> you parallel charge two strings with different amp-hour capacities.
> Let's say one string is twice the amp-hours of the other. During
> charging, the larger amp-hour string should get around 2/3 of the
> charging current and the smaller amp-hour string around 1/3.
That's easy. Put a shunt in series with each string. The negative ends
of both shunts are wired together (they make dual shunts like this).
Wire your ammeter between the positive ends of each shunt. It will
indicate the *difference* in current between them.
If you want to scale it so "zero" on the ammeter means exactly 2x the
current is flowing in one string, you can use one 500amp 50mv and one
250amp 50mv shunt. When (say) 50a is flowing in the 500a shunt, and 25a
is flowing in the 250a shunt, the meter will read zero.
Or, use two idential 500a 50mv shunts, but put a 2:1 voltage divider
across the one that is to have twice the current. Tie your ammeter
between this center tap and the positive end of the other one.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A totally crazy range extending idea especially for northern EVs that
use a gasoline heater:
Remove:
1) gasoline heater
2) electric vacuum pump
3) electric motor for power steering pump
4) DC-DC converter
Build instead in a small some-kW water-cooled ICE. It would:
1) heat the cabin by using the heater core as a radiator
2) provide vacuum for the brakes
3) drive the power steering pump
4) feed the 12-V system
Well, OK, it would not really extend the range one single bit
(directly).
Indirectly the range would increase when the 12-V load disappears...
Seppo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It just takes creativity. Here is mine....
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/e10dave/detail?.dir=dd7bre2&.dnm=78f4re2.j
pg&.src=ph
Dave banas
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steven Lough
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:06 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Electric Vehicle
Discussion List RCVR
Subject: Does any one have "Lic. Plate Envy ?"
This PLATE:
( http://home.comcast.net/~stevenslough/OneHundredOneMPG.jpg )
is sitting on one of our friends Volvo's. It is NOT a vanity Plate,
it was just a number which came up in the normal sequence...
My sister WORKS for a franchised Wa.State Lice Agency... So I called
her and asked her if This Plate could be transferred to someone ..
... how should I put it... More Deserving !
And unfortunately she said she does not think it is possible...
Too Bad... I know one guy here in Wa. State, with the enitials
Ryan Fulcher... would probably PAY BIG BUCKS to have that plate.
Sorry Ryan....
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Microchip (PIC micro maker) has a entire set of 8 pin pics. If you use the
internal oscillator you have 6 user IO at your disposal. So they do exist
and are used quite a bit (I think the playstation and xbox modders are their
#1 market. Every time I run across a post "broke my xbox" its some one who
botched the install of one of these buggers).
Can't help you with C. C is ok C++ drives me nuts. But for all my apps I
have used assembly on the PICs with no issues (many are non trivial. I have
a UDP/IP ethernet stack for a PIC16F877 entirely written in asm). For the
most part it come down to personal programming preference.
Later,
Wire
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: Danny Miller <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:07:56 -0000
Soldering SMT is my forte. C is not. I've seen several small 8 pin
uP's make a small project work well. I thought for sure PIC would have
some too.
Every time I look a C I just don't get it.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Microchip has a great... and I mean great... free IDE for their
> compiler/assembler/programmer/simulator/debugger. It'd be crazy to
> mess around with third party stuff.
>
> Writing C isn't hard at all. And it's pretty powerful.
>
> There aren't a lot of 8-pin PICs. The usefulness of such a device is
> quite limited. A good starting chip is the PIC18F2520, a 28-pin
> device. For more pins, the 40-pin PIC18F4520 (4620, 4680 are more
> powerful versions). If you're really serious about keeping the pin
> count down, PIC18F1320. All these are available in both DIP and SOIC
> versions. Anything more than 40 pins is going to be in a serious SMD
> pkg, such as TQFP/QFN 64, 80, or 100. Don't be afraid of surface mount
> stuff, it's not as problematic to hand solder as it first appears.
> There are many web pages describing several techniques people have used
> to make it a breeze.
>
> Danny
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
>
> >Being able to install a lookup table etc would make my EV life easier.
> >I only know ancient BASIC. So then I have to try and tackle C to get
> >into uP's? I know there is the basic stamp, but I need something small
> >like in an 8 pin DIP that I can learn to program. Is there a Pic or
> >Atmel guide for pack smokin' Ultra Dummy's?
> >
> >A small uP would allow me to make a very adjustable and communicative
> >bms as well as a monitoring system. Not to mention thermal fan
hardware.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeff Shanab <ev@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>On a side note about using PIC micro's There are loads of free
> >>simulators, free software, and low cost build it yourself programmers
> >>for PIC.
> >>
> >>One of the PIC books I got(mike or mark predo, ok but not great
author)
> >>comes with a board that you populate and links to free software, but I
> >>found better software.
> >>
> >>windows :
> >>
> >>http://www.oshonsoft.com/
> >>
> >>this software is great for the price.
> >>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh I know there are 8-pin PICs. But the selection is limited and of
course there's only so much you can do with 6 IO pins and the internal
osc. And if you're building your own project, it's usually silly
because it may even be smaller to use a larger pin-count SOIC vs a
DIP-8. Or at most it's a few sq mm of board space more.
Microcontrollers do not use C++. C++ requires memory management and a
complex stack that would be very inefficient, or impossible, to perform
with most microcontrollers, PIC included. Even the bigger ones.
I dig C, I can write a lot of stuff easily, it's quite portable, and
easy to maintain and update. For example, I have code written for the
8-bit PIC18. Most of that can be used on a dsPIC33F project and the
compiler will take automatically implement the code using the more
effective 16 bit math automatically.
Danny
Peter Shabino wrote:
Microchip (PIC micro maker) has a entire set of 8 pin pics. If you use
the internal oscillator you have 6 user IO at your disposal. So they
do exist and are used quite a bit (I think the playstation and xbox
modders are their #1 market. Every time I run across a post "broke my
xbox" its some one who botched the install of one of these buggers).
Can't help you with C. C is ok C++ drives me nuts. But for all my apps
I have used assembly on the PICs with no issues (many are non trivial.
I have a UDP/IP ethernet stack for a PIC16F877 entirely written in
asm). For the most part it come down to personal programming preference.
Later,
Wire
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How is assembly to write in? easier than C? Glad to hear there are 8
pin uP's.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Microchip (PIC micro maker) has a entire set of 8 pin pics. If you
use the
> internal oscillator you have 6 user IO at your disposal. So they do
exist
> and are used quite a bit (I think the playstation and xbox modders
are their
> #1 market. Every time I run across a post "broke my xbox" its some
one who
> botched the install of one of these buggers).
>
> Can't help you with C. C is ok C++ drives me nuts. But for all my
apps I
> have used assembly on the PICs with no issues (many are non trivial.
I have
> a UDP/IP ethernet stack for a PIC16F877 entirely written in asm).
For the
> most part it come down to personal programming preference.
>
> Later,
> Wire
>
> >From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
> >Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:07:56 -0000
> >
> >Soldering SMT is my forte. C is not. I've seen several small 8 pin
> >uP's make a small project work well. I thought for sure PIC would have
> >some too.
> >
> >Every time I look a C I just don't get it.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Danny Miller <ev@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Microchip has a great... and I mean great... free IDE for their
> > > compiler/assembler/programmer/simulator/debugger. It'd be crazy to
> > > mess around with third party stuff.
> > >
> > > Writing C isn't hard at all. And it's pretty powerful.
> > >
> > > There aren't a lot of 8-pin PICs. The usefulness of such a
device is
> > > quite limited. A good starting chip is the PIC18F2520, a 28-pin
> > > device. For more pins, the 40-pin PIC18F4520 (4620, 4680 are more
> > > powerful versions). If you're really serious about keeping the pin
> > > count down, PIC18F1320. All these are available in both DIP and
SOIC
> > > versions. Anything more than 40 pins is going to be in a
serious SMD
> > > pkg, such as TQFP/QFN 64, 80, or 100. Don't be afraid of
surface mount
> > > stuff, it's not as problematic to hand solder as it first appears.
> > > There are many web pages describing several techniques people
have used
> > > to make it a breeze.
> > >
> > > Danny
> > >
> > > Mike Phillips wrote:
> > >
> > > >Being able to install a lookup table etc would make my EV life
easier.
> > > >I only know ancient BASIC. So then I have to try and tackle C
to get
> > > >into uP's? I know there is the basic stamp, but I need
something small
> > > >like in an 8 pin DIP that I can learn to program. Is there a Pic or
> > > >Atmel guide for pack smokin' Ultra Dummy's?
> > > >
> > > >A small uP would allow me to make a very adjustable and
communicative
> > > >bms as well as a monitoring system. Not to mention thermal fan
> >hardware.
> > > >
> > > >Mike
> > > >
> > > >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeff Shanab <ev@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>On a side note about using PIC micro's There are loads of free
> > > >>simulators, free software, and low cost build it yourself
programmers
> > > >>for PIC.
> > > >>
> > > >>One of the PIC books I got(mike or mark predo, ok but not great
> >author)
> > > >>comes with a board that you populate and links to free
software, but I
> > > >>found better software.
> > > >>
> > > >>windows :
> > > >>
> > > >>http://www.oshonsoft.com/
> > > >>
> > > >>this software is great for the price.
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well that's a complex question. Assembly is a lower level language (add
n to register W, etc). It takes some skill to implement complex tasks
with assembly.
Others will note there are more instructions, syntax, and other nuances
involved in writing C than there are assembly instructions.
Some of the more advanced PICs- 18, ds30, ds33- they may be more
"C-friendly", that is, they implement C more efficiently- but they're
also loved by assembly programmers too. There are more instructions to
learn but the additional instructions can do some things that will
actually simplify a program, make it smaller, and make it run faster.
Danny
Mike Phillips wrote:
<>How is assembly to write in? easier than C? Glad to hear there are 8
pin uP's.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think its easy. Its sort of like a stripped down basic (goto and all).
There are 35 instructions for a PIC16 so not all that many to rember.
sample code (just off the top of my head)
START
MOVF PORTC,W ;take the data in port c (one of the IO banks) and
move it to W (the accu)
XORLW 0x17 ;do a exclusive or of literal data (17 in hex)
with W put the result in W
BTFSS STATUS,Z ;check the Z bit in the STATUS reg and skip the next
instruction if its set
; the status reg have a bunch of math and other status bits. the Z bit
is set if the last operation
; resulted in 0
GOTO SKIPOUT ; just like basic go to the flag named SKIPOUT
BSF PORTA,0 ; set bit 0 of port A to a 1
SKIPOUT
MOVF PORTC,W ;take the data in port c (one of the IO banks) and
move it to W (the accu)
XORLW 0xE0 ;do a exclusive or of literal data (E0 in hex)
with W put the result in W
BTFSS STATUS,Z ;check the Z bit in the STATUS reg and skip the next
instruction if its set
; the status reg have a bunch of math and other status bits. the Z bit
is set if the last operation
; resulted in 0
GOTO SKIPOUT0 ; just like basic go to the flag named SKIPOUT0
BCF PORTA,0 ; set bit 0 of port A to a 0
SKIPOUT0
GOTO START ; just like basic go to the flag named start
the above program will watch port C on a PIC (8 bit input or output port)
and if hex 17 is present it will turn on portA bit 0 if its hex E0 it will
turn off the bit all other states no change. Realy this could be done better
with a FPGA but was the first example I thought of off the top of my head.
Later,
Wire
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: "Peter Shabino" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:43:10 -0000
How is assembly to write in? easier than C? Glad to hear there are 8
pin uP's.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Microchip (PIC micro maker) has a entire set of 8 pin pics. If you
use the
> internal oscillator you have 6 user IO at your disposal. So they do
exist
> and are used quite a bit (I think the playstation and xbox modders
are their
> #1 market. Every time I run across a post "broke my xbox" its some
one who
> botched the install of one of these buggers).
>
> Can't help you with C. C is ok C++ drives me nuts. But for all my
apps I
> have used assembly on the PICs with no issues (many are non trivial.
I have
> a UDP/IP ethernet stack for a PIC16F877 entirely written in asm).
For the
> most part it come down to personal programming preference.
>
> Later,
> Wire
>
> >From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
> >Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:07:56 -0000
> >
> >Soldering SMT is my forte. C is not. I've seen several small 8 pin
> >uP's make a small project work well. I thought for sure PIC would have
> >some too.
> >
> >Every time I look a C I just don't get it.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Danny Miller <ev@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Microchip has a great... and I mean great... free IDE for their
> > > compiler/assembler/programmer/simulator/debugger. It'd be crazy to
> > > mess around with third party stuff.
> > >
> > > Writing C isn't hard at all. And it's pretty powerful.
> > >
> > > There aren't a lot of 8-pin PICs. The usefulness of such a
device is
> > > quite limited. A good starting chip is the PIC18F2520, a 28-pin
> > > device. For more pins, the 40-pin PIC18F4520 (4620, 4680 are more
> > > powerful versions). If you're really serious about keeping the pin
> > > count down, PIC18F1320. All these are available in both DIP and
SOIC
> > > versions. Anything more than 40 pins is going to be in a
serious SMD
> > > pkg, such as TQFP/QFN 64, 80, or 100. Don't be afraid of
surface mount
> > > stuff, it's not as problematic to hand solder as it first appears.
> > > There are many web pages describing several techniques people
have used
> > > to make it a breeze.
> > >
> > > Danny
> > >
> > > Mike Phillips wrote:
> > >
> > > >Being able to install a lookup table etc would make my EV life
easier.
> > > >I only know ancient BASIC. So then I have to try and tackle C
to get
> > > >into uP's? I know there is the basic stamp, but I need
something small
> > > >like in an 8 pin DIP that I can learn to program. Is there a Pic or
> > > >Atmel guide for pack smokin' Ultra Dummy's?
> > > >
> > > >A small uP would allow me to make a very adjustable and
communicative
> > > >bms as well as a monitoring system. Not to mention thermal fan
> >hardware.
> > > >
> > > >Mike
> > > >
> > > >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeff Shanab <ev@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>On a side note about using PIC micro's There are loads of free
> > > >>simulators, free software, and low cost build it yourself
programmers
> > > >>for PIC.
> > > >>
> > > >>One of the PIC books I got(mike or mark predo, ok but not great
> >author)
> > > >>comes with a board that you populate and links to free
software, but I
> > > >>found better software.
> > > >>
> > > >>windows :
> > > >>
> > > >>http://www.oshonsoft.com/
> > > >>
> > > >>this software is great for the price.
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
