EV Digest 5556
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Three questions (was: Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage Divisions)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Microchip software was ...Brueggemann Meter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Three questions (was: Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage
Divisions)
by Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) How Power Supply Ratings Work
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Segment on PHEV conversion on latest episode of systm
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: How Power Supply Ratings Work
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) RE: Trojan T-1275 VS T-875 Batteries
by "Jonathan Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Electric/EV basic knowledge
by "Jonathan Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Does any one have "Lic. Plate Envy
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Nimh meltdown
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Need Advice -- Gel pack rejuvenation plan
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) 08 uP is easier to program than PIC
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Honda to Stop Making Insights
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Electric/EV basic knowledge
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Conversion on eBay
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Lee's regs in action
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Microchip software was ...Brueggemann Meter
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: How Power Supply Ratings Work
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Honda to Stop Making Insights
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Trojan T-1275 VS T-875 Batteries
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Current Eliminator News!!!!!!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) RE: Pic stuff (was) LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi-
If the pack voltage can be switched while underway then the highest nominal
voltage is used.
I have used similar systems in the past and Dave Cloud has had good success
with mechanical
switches. They work best in cars because motor cycle riders are required by
NHRA to keep
both hands on the handlebars all the way down the track.
Bring a vehile to the Northwest Late Nite Nationals and play, F.T.
> [Original Message]
> From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 6/8/2006 5:28:32 AM
> Subject: RE: Three questions (was: Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage
Divisions)
>
> >> BTW - we hear frequently about motor series/parallelling.
> >> How is a car classified that does battery series/parallel switching?
> >> Is it the highest voltage that can be reached when series switching?
> >
> >Voltage is measured at the battery pack,Period!
>
> I think you did not understand my question.
> What if the pack can be switched from (for example) 144V to 288V?
> (either two strings of 144V parallel or in series)
> Which class does this fall in?
this would fall into the 241 to 300 v class.
>
> What if I can switch the battery pack from 12V to 24V to 48V?
> (4 parallel; 2 series of 2 parallel; 4 series)
agian the highest nominal voltage, 25 to 48v class
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 3:12 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu; ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Three questions (was: Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage
> Divisions)
>
>
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Date: 6/7/2006 8:51:36 AM
> > Subject: RE: Three questions (was: Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage
> Divisions)
> >
> > Boosting the battery voltage is exactly what the newer Prius (2004+)
> > are doing: battery is 200V, motor controller is taking 500V DC or
> > thereabouts.
>
> Hybrids can not be raced in NEDRA classes all motive power must come from
> batteries carried on board the vehicle.
>
> > I am not suggesting that Prius are racing material, just to say that
> > it is not an uncommon situation.
> > NEDRA will need to define _where_ and _how_ to measure the voltage.
> > If it's the batteries nominal voltage spec as in 2V per lead acid cell
> > and 1.2 V per NiCd cell, etc., then all that is needed is to publish
> > a list of battery chemistries and voltage per cell that is counted,
> > then everyone can figure out the nr of series connected cells and
> > determine their class.
> >
> > If you want to determine the class from max motor voltage then there
> > is no need to have 12V steps, as motor voltage max will depend on a
> > lot of things: AC or DC (RMS voltage on the AC output as the reference?)
> > and the max PWM output times the peak voltage or just the peak voltage
> > for DC drive? and so on....
> >
> > BTW - we hear frequently about motor series/parallelling.
> > How is a car classified that does battery series/parallel switching?
> > Is it the highest voltage that can be reached when series switching?
>
> Voltage is measured at the battery pack,Period!
> >
> > At some point in time it may be beneficial to distinguish classes
> > between "lead" and "advance chemistries" instead of lumping them
> > together, but I'll leave it to someone else to determine if we want
> > a class per chemistry or just keep one class and allow everyone to
> > choose according budget and performance of chemistries.
>
> As of now I belive there is only one Lion vehicle actively racing and it
is
> running high voltage.
> A notation of battery chemestry in the record listing is a possible way to
> resolve the issue.
> The board of directors will determine how to handle this issue and post it
> for comment by the NEDRA
> membership after 30days the board of directors will vote on and post the
> rules.
>
> Any one wishing to build an electric drag racing vehicle should aquire a
> NHRA rule book,
> and read sec.1A,1C,1G,1H,and the general rules sec. Then go to NEDRA.COM.
> and read
> theNedra rules. If this is done before starting the project it can save
> problems down the road.
>
> Build a machine and come out and race," Father Time"
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:56 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu; ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Three questions (was: Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage
> > Divisions)
> >
> >
> > No one has tried building and racing a boost controller, but
> > it has been proposed before. I suspect that the weight, cost, and
> > perhaps inefficiency, might outweigh the possible advantage, but I
> > could easily be wrong.
> >
> > Someone should try it. Maybe it will work.
> >
> > Bill Dube'
> >
> >
> > At 05:06 PM 6/4/2006, Jorg Brown wrote:
> > >Well said, Bill, especially your note about the membership's 30-day
> comment
> > >period.
> > >
> > >One thing I've been curious about for some time is how the voltage is
> done.
> > >As you've mentioned, the "nominal" voltage is clear for lead-acid but
not
> > so
> > >clear for other chemistries, because other chemistries don't have as
> wide a
> > >voltage range as lead-acid does.
> > >
> > >But putting that question to the side, I've wondered if there is any
> > thought
> > >about what happens if a controller increases the voltage? Suppose I
aim
> to
> > >break the 24V records by using, say, 30 hawkers in two heavily parallel
> > >packs of 15 each. Then I use a special step-up controller that takes
my
> > >voltage back up to, say, 240V. Is that still considered a 24V-class
> > >vehicle?
> > >
> > >And if that's considered a 240V vehicle, then what about AC drive? Do
we
> > >use RMS equivalence, the same way that 110VAC is really 311V
> peak-to-peak?
> > >
> > >jorg
> > >
> > >ps Personally I think it'd be better to use 30-sec peak power output
(of
> > the
> > >batteries), instead of voltage, but that's a long discussion for some
> other
> > >day.
> > >
> > >On 6/3/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>New voltage divisions are very a good idea. As higher voltage packs
> > >>appear at the track, it is smart to have more divisions to keep them
> > >>from all bunching together in a single category.
> > >>
> > >>Three important subject areas were not addressed in your
> > >>announcement, however.
> > >>
> > >>1) What happens with the existing "A" voltage records? Will they be
> > >>re-assigned? When (if) these existing records are moved, will "second
> > >>place" records, previously set, move into their place? If folks have
> > >>the proper documentation, will records set in the past be allowed in
> > >>these new categories?
> > >>
> > >>2) How will the voltage of other battery types be placed within these
> > >>divisions? The voltages in these divisions were designed for
> > >>"nominal" lead-acid voltages. The measured open-circuit voltage of
> > >>fully-charged lead-acid batteries is actually 13/12 times these
> > >>numbers. Would that be the voltage used for chemistries different
> > >>than lead-acid, or would some other formula be used?
> > >>
> > >>3) Doesn't the NEDRA charter require a 30 day member comment period
> > >>before new rules go into effect? Since this new rule was just
> > >>announced, shouldn't the members have 30 days to comment before it
> > >>becomes official? To whom would members send their comments? Where
> > >>would the member comments be listed? Where would the answers to the
> > >>comments be listed?
> > >>
> > >> Bill Dube'
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>At 05:11 AM 6/3/2006, you wrote:
> > >> >NEDRA is pleased to announce two new Voltage Divisions. Effectively
> > >> >immediately, we are adding two higher voltage divisions for a total
> > >> >of 12 in all. This means that there are more record setting
> > >> >opportunities for higher voltage vehicles beginning at the Power of
> > >> >DC event, this weekend at Hagerstown, Maryland. Please see the Power
> > >> >of DC site at http://www.powerofdc.com for all event details.
> > >> >
> > >> >We are seeing a major trend at the track toward higher voltages, so
> > >> >we wanted to provide some additional divisions for these higher
> > >> >voltage competitors. As the previously highest voltage division was
> > >> >designated "A", these two new divisions will be designated "A2" and
> > >> >"A3" respectively.
> > >> >
> > >> >All the NEDRA voltage divisions are currently based on multiples of
> > >> >nominal 12 volt batteries.
> > >> >
> > >> >New NEDRA Voltage Divisions
> > >> >----------------------------------
> > >> >Division A3 - 349 Volts and above
> > >> >Division A2 - 301 Volts - 348 Volts
> > >> >Division A - 241 Volts - 300 Volts
> > >> >Division B - 193 Volts - 240 Volts
> > >> >Division C - 169 Volts - 192 Volts
> > >> >Division D - 145 Volts - 168 Volts
> > >> >Division E - 121 Volts - 144 Volts
> > >> >Division F - 97 Volts - 120 Volts
> > >> >Division G - 73 Volts - 96 Volts
> > >> >Division H - 49 Volts - 72 Volts
> > >> >Division I - 25 Volts - 48 Volts
> > >> >Division J - 24 Volts and below
> > >> >
> > >> >All NEDRA record setters and record breakers receive a pair of
> > >> >Oakley Sunglasses.
> > >> >
> > >> >See you at the races!
> > >> >
> > >> >-Ken Trough
> > >> >NEDRA Public Relations
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
> The BASIC Stamp is an excellent product for its purpose. It has enabled
> thousands of people to enter the world of microelectronics by offering
> a simple to use platform, a GUI interface, lots of great articles and
> how-tos in a well package setup. Sure it has lots of limitations, sure
> it comparatively costs lots of money, but for those people who are
> doing casual small hobby projects it suits its purpose just fine...
> Although I have outgrown the basic stamp and now use a compiler for PIC,
> if the stamp wasn't there in the first place, I doubt I would have
> started into the process - too much time invested for minimal return.
Excellent, Don! This is exactly the point I was making about "rungs on
the ladder". The BASIC Stamp is a very low rung -- useless to people on
the top, but vital to those on the way up!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
>From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jun 7, 2006 3:12 PM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu, ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: RE: Three questions (was: Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage
>Divisions)
As I understand it, at this time lower voltage classes can only be offically
timed
for 1/8 mile distances. Can a 36 or 48 etc. etc. volt car be offically timed
for the 1/4 mile?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a question about how power supply ratings work. For example the
Lenmar AC-S10 is a power supply listed as 4.2V and 2A. 200Ah TS cell specs
say to hold the voltage at around 4.2V - 4.25V until the amperage drops to
2A. If a cell were mostly charged, say to 4.0V OCV or so, and I hooked up
an AC-S10 power supply to it, would the power supply limit itself to putting
put out a constant 2A until the voltage reached 4.2V, or would it try to put
out 4.2V constant, even if that meant going over 2A?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
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--- Begin Message ---
http://revision3.com/systm/makerfaire/media
The bit starts at about 13m50s into the video. Many format and
download options available at the link. Discusses adding PbAcid batts
to a Prius, why the Hondas aren't being converted, etc. Filmed at the
Maker Faire.
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The AC-S10 is voltage regulated, not current regulated. 2A is it max current
rating. Loading it to more than 2A will over rate it. Yes- it will attempt to
deliver more than 2A.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 08:29:08 -0600
Subject: How Power Supply Ratings Work
I have a question about how power supply ratings work. For example the
Lenmar AC-S10 is a power supply listed as 4.2V and 2A. 200Ah TS cell specs
say to hold the voltage at around 4.2V - 4.25V until the amperage drops to
2A. If a cell were mostly charged, say to 4.0V OCV or so, and I hooked up
an AC-S10 power supply to it, would the power supply limit itself to putting
put out a constant 2A until the voltage reached 4.2V, or would it try to put
out 4.2V constant, even if that meant going over 2A?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM.
All on demand. Always Free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The J150 is Trojan's premium 12V flooded lead acid.
Instead of six 12V 30XHS, Global Electric Motorcars now puts nine Trojan
T875 as OEM in their six passenger model (four seater with a flip seat
added).
Not to say it isn't so, I just have not heard of a T-1275 8V. Sounds more
like a model number for a Douglas.
If cost is an issue, the US Battery 8V is cost competitive.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Is there an Electricity for Dummies?"
Never mind that, is there a Lee Hart for Dummies?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
As to the question of this post's title 'Lic. Plate Envy'..... yes and no.
The plate I have for Blue Meanie is as classic as it gets for an
EV.....VOLTS...I love it, I'm keeping it.
The plate I have for my 2000 Honda Insight (EPA rated at 70 mpg) is as
classic as it gets.....70MPG...I love it, I'm keeping it. It's
especially fun to make sure I'm in front of every giant SUV I can find,
so they have to constantly read 70MPG while they lumber along getting 12.
The plate I have for White Zombie isn't classic, but it
works....ZOMBIE....yawn.....
This last one is where the 'no' comes in. I confess, I not only have
plate envy...I would call it extreme plate envy! You see, I love
hard driving rock, and one of my favorite bands is AC/DC. I'm known for
playing it LOUD through extreme audio systems. Of course, I charge my
EVs off AC and run them off DC, so AC/DC for me, is the ultimate
statement for an in-your-face hard driving EV. There's a heavy Chevy
dude here in Portland, who for the past 20 years now, has owned the
custom plate 'AC/DC'...it adorns his '69 Chevele muscle car. I hate him!
I want him to move to Croatia! I even know when his license comes up for
renewal, and I'm at the DMV whenever the date comes up. They even know
me at the DMV because of this ritual You could call me a license plate
stalker. Some day when he drops his guard, I'll be there,
waiting!......it's sick, I know.
See Ya......John Wayland
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--- Begin Message ---
You made a few crucial mistakes.
1) You can't recharge Nimh with a CV curve.
2) You can't expect parallel packs to share charging or discharging current
equally.
3) These are made worse when you have packs of different ages.
4) You are not actively tracking the status of each pack.
5) Your charger does not have a temperature safety shut off.
6) Your charger does not have a timeout safety shut off.
On 6/6/06, Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sunday morning I had 3 of the 5 nimh packs totally go up in smoke, two
with unknown damage.
It's a very complicated process using nimh AND paralleling them. But I
need facts so I'm giving it a try.
For some reason after many successful charge/discharge cycles the nimh
array decided not to reach it's normal final charge voltage overnight.
So the charger kept putting in a couple amps and the array just got
hotter and hotter until 114 of the 190 modules cracked open and spewed
gasious KoH all over the place. The built in vent system failed 100%.
Instead the temperature measuring well split open.
So I am adding a protection circuit to pull a pack out of the loop if
it gets too hot. That means each pack will have a thermal fan circuit,
a thermal relay circuit and a current monitoring circuit.
I didn't charge the array to it's max voltage. I didn't want to mess
with shooting for absolute peak voltage. So I settled on 323v. The
peaking of 5 nimh packs has the potential disadvantage of not having
them all peak at the same time. From my testing 323vdc is just at the
very long, actual peak, not past it. Peaking the pack before 323 just
resulted in far less charging and an easy peak to shut off the charger
with, far too soon.
After every few charge discharge cycles I would separate the packs via
the relays and charge each one individually. This insured that they had
the same final voltage in them. After doing this once, they stayed very
close on consequent charge/discharge cycles.
I was up to 90+ miles worth of testing. Range was 19.7 miles max. I
hope the 5 replacements are in as good of condition.
All in the name of research.
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--
Edward Ang
AirLab
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--- Begin Message ---
This is one of those "timely" threads.
I have recently opened some of those 26ah Hawkers I posted about a while back.
The date codes on these batteries are from late 2001 to mid 2002.
Some of them are still aroung 12volts. Some are less. Way less.
One rather interesting note... The ones dated BEFORE Sep 11, 2001 are generally
in BETTER shape than the ones dated
just AFTER Sep 11, 2001. I'm not impying anything, it's just a general
observation.
Anyway, I've had a few batteries, that are(were) just plain dead.
One in particular came out of the box at 4.92v.
I hooked it up to a 12v 10/2 Shumacher charger on the 10 amp setting.
Monitored voltage.. immediately the voltage jumped to 5.something, the charger
read about an amp flowing. over the
course of an hour the voltage slowly rose to about 11.5, as the voltage rose so
rose the current (on the Shumacher
front panel, not sure of it's precision). It pegged at about 12amps. At that
point the voltage was still rising but
really slowly. I figured that as long as it stayed below 15v I would let it
cook. Eventually it went close to 14v so I
kicked the charger down to 2 amps and left it overnite.
In the meantime I opened 6 more boxes, the voltages ranged from 11.49 - 8.67.
At this time I hooked all of those batteries together in parallel and put the
Shumaker on them, along with the above
was 4.92v now 12.3v battery.
I repeated the above process, watched the voltage rise until the current pegged
at ~12amps, the the V rose much more
slowly. When the pack reached ~14v, I switched the charger to 2amp and let it
go for two days. Periodically monitoring
V, It took the full 2 days for the pack to come back up to 14v. The shumacher
will not go above 14v on the 2 amp
setting.
I removed the charger and the parallel wires so the batt's are now resting
peacefully.....
Now, they've been resting for 4 days......
The 4.92v battery is still sitting at 12.6v.
All of the >11v batteries are resting at >12.6v.
One of the ~8v has fallen below 12, the rest are at ~12.3.
I am trying the same thing again with 7 more batteries, these all have the same
date, 22 Feb 2002. They are on their
2nd day of the 2amp charge. I will remove it when I get home and they will
begin their rest period.
I probably should get one of those 50amp chargers.....these are Hawkers after
all.....
NOTE: the packs are wired with 12ga stranded wire (I ripped open an extension
cord), the negative and positive charger
clamps are on opposite ends of the pack. i.e. neg on batt 1, pos on batt 7 (we
discussed that a year or so ago).
The nice thing about AGM's.... the sulfation CAN'T flake off.
--
Stay Charged! <<-- Finally after all these years, my sig means something to me.
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 2:36 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Need Advice -- Gel pack rejuvenation plan
>
> Meta Bus wrote:
>>> I have a string of buddy pairs, 8G31DT (size 31 gel 12v Deka
>>> Dominators), which are currently dead-flat, and have been lying in
>>> that state for months. I am going to attempt to bring them back from
>>> the dead... can someone help me predict what to expect?
>
> Joe Smalley wrote:
>> Here are two predictions:
>> 1. You will be unable to draw even 2 amps from the power supply
>> because some or all of the batteries are open circuits.
>>
>> 2. You will be unable to limit the current into the batteries because
>> some of them refuse to go above 10 volts.
>
> I agree. Most of them will behave like nearly open circuits, but you may
> also have some dead/shorted cells just to complicate things. So, it is
> impractical to try to rejuvenate them as a series string. You'll have to
> open up the pack, and rejuvenate them individually.
>
>> A better choice would be to connect each battery in series with a 100
>> watt 120 VAC light bulb, a >200PIV 3 amp diode (cathode toward the
>> battery
>> positive) and a 120 VAC source.
>
> I wouldn't use such a drastic overvoltage supply; a 24vdc supply is plenty
> for rejuvenating a 12v battery. If 24v won't bring it back, give up. "He's
> dead, Jim".
>
> A light bulb works well as a current limiter, in case there's a shorted
> cell. The initial current will probably be quite low, but it will
> g-r-a-d-u-a-l-l-y rise as the battery moves away from 100% dead. Note that
> it may take DAYS for the current to stop rising.
>
> Once the current stops rising, remove this high-voltage current-limited
> charger. Wait a while, and check the open circuit battery voltage. If it's
> around 12v or more, it's OK -- continue charging with a normal 12v charger.
> If it hasn't come up to at least 12v, you probably have a shorted cell --
> the battery is shot.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I've used the MC68HC908QY4 in my battery charger, battery scanner, motor
speed control, solar controller, wind controller and other projects. It's a
lot easier to program in assembly than the PIC with english like instructions,
conditional branching and combined looping instructions to make life easier
without the overhead of "C". I use the www.pemicro.com multilink or cyclone
programmer as the CodeWarrior that comes with the Freescale (Motorola) stuff is
difficult to use.
Best Regards,
Mark
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:11:36 -0700 From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL
PROTECTED]> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter Plain Text
Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
Assembly is simpler but not easier. let me explain you have much fewer
commands and they are directly linked to the hardware each doing on hardware
related thing. You must furnish all the constructs. For example a loop in
c is for (i=1;i<25;i++){ //do a bunch //of stuff // for each
battery } In assembly you must choose a register, put a counter value in
it, decrement this counter and branch when the zero flag is activated after
the decrement instruction. This is actually quiet simple and almost as easy as
C . The added problems with the PIC occur when the setting of one bit bank
selects out sections of memory and suddenly you are looking at the wrong
memory. You must manage the memory model. Or the setting of the writeback
bit sends the value through the ALU again and throws off your result. Where
the real difference comes in is when you have a mathematical expression and
parameter passing subroutine calls. amphrs = (amps*
tempcoef^pukert*.65 + amps*pukert ) * volts //in c is one line in
assembly this takes about 50 lines and a week the first time you do it. Now
put an expression inside the variables of the for loop and you are in for some
fun. ie for (i=1; i<batteries/2; i + batteries / 10){.... assembly is more
effient to program in when you are doing a lot of bit level manipulation, but
C is the best high level language that allows bit level manipulation as well
as embedding assembly. It lends itself to larger more complicated projects
because of the ability to offer a level of abstraction away from the actual
implementation. C++ is better on big interface driven programs with overlays
and stuff having more than one programmer, All good c is valid c++. C#
enforces thru language coinstructs good C++ practices and is more an
attraction to people who employ programmers than the programmers themselfs,
although it does save some typing on large classes and the type
safety is a great feature. it reduces errors on huge projects. The 8085
line of microcontrollers, are better suited to programing in C.
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--- Begin Message ---
You hit the nail on the head there, Chris. Will child seats not
recommended for the car, a huge chunk of the hybrid buyers market is
cut out.
My sister and her husband were looking to buy a second car, and since
they are going used for VERY reasonable prices I recommended it. They
were interested, but when we realized they could not put in a child
seat it was completely rejected, even as a second car!
-Mike
On 5/25/06, Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Only problem is it's a 2 seater and I have a family. Still I'd buy one
and put a Dolphin into it.
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I thought Lee Hart **was** Electricity for Dummies! If you can't understand it
after he explains it, you really ought to pack it in...
Speaking of which - I think the reason Lee didn't get any takers on his $10
reg offer is that the Hart Z-reg is the perfect "beginner's project kit" for EV
newbies. I know I treated it that way, and it was a great introduction. Find
the parts, solder this, epoxy that, learn to understand the (very basic)
circuit and why it does what it does. You get to build something from scratch
which will actually improve the performance of your EV, learn some basic
electronics, scope out sources for things like lugs and zeners, and most
importantly, you get to let a (tiny) amount of smoke out when you hook one up
backwards! It's a basic beginner's A to Z of the Hombrewed EV experience - and
all at a nominal cost.
Jonathan Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Is there an Electricity for Dummies?"
Never mind that, is there a Lee Hart for Dummies?
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--- Begin Message ---
Claims to have a range of up to 150 Miles with 20 Trojans 125s. Now - I
don't know if that would even be possible in theory (other then rolling
down hill), but the buyer sure will be in for quite a suprise :( On the
other hand: He is asking 23,000 with 'Reserve Not Met' - I doubt he/she
will be able to sell the truck for that price anyway.
Michaela
> Is the seller on the list?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4647644891
>
> A little rich for me, but I certainly like the paint scheme on that
> expansion
> box for battery space - a little galaxy sitting in the bed!
>
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Wayne wrote:
>
> Check's in the mail...No...Really...It is...
Ok! The first order. Contact me directly to arrange shipping details.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Ok I forgot who started this thread originaly. But, if your still reading
let me know. I found a HC11 dev kit in my basement. Its apx 9 years old but
everything is there (documentation / software) and I don't think I have ever
used this one. It should have a onboard boot loader in the chips EEPROM so
all you need to program it is a serial port from the PC. Let me know if your
insterested.
Later,
Wire
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Microchip software was ...Brueggemann Meter
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 09:22:58 -0500
Don Cameron wrote:
> The BASIC Stamp is an excellent product for its purpose. It has enabled
> thousands of people to enter the world of microelectronics by offering
> a simple to use platform, a GUI interface, lots of great articles and
> how-tos in a well package setup. Sure it has lots of limitations, sure
> it comparatively costs lots of money, but for those people who are
> doing casual small hobby projects it suits its purpose just fine...
> Although I have outgrown the basic stamp and now use a compiler for PIC,
> if the stamp wasn't there in the first place, I doubt I would have
> started into the process - too much time invested for minimal return.
Excellent, Don! This is exactly the point I was making about "rungs on
the ladder". The BASIC Stamp is a very low rung -- useless to people on
the top, but vital to those on the way up!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
>
> I have a question about how power supply ratings work. For example the
> Lenmar AC-S10 is a power supply listed as 4.2V and 2A. 200Ah TS cell specs
> say to hold the voltage at around 4.2V - 4.25V until the amperage drops to
> 2A. If a cell were mostly charged, say to 4.0V OCV or so, and I hooked up
> an AC-S10 power supply to it, would the power supply limit itself to putting
> put out a constant 2A until the voltage reached 4.2V, or would it try to put
> out 4.2V constant, even if that meant going over 2A?
It depends on the supply. The Lenmar AC-S10's "2 amp" rating may be the
most it can deliver continuously without overheating. If overloaded, it
may protect itself by:
- current limit: limit the current electronically to 2 amps or a bit
more
- foldback current limit: reduce the current to something below 2 amps,
but keep working
- electronically shut down; then wait until AC power is removed and
reapplied to try again
- electronically shut down; but periodically retry automatically
- blow an internal fuse
- supply more current until it overheats, then shut down
- burn up and die!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ahhh what lawyers and sensationalized news stories have done to us... I
still fondly remember laying down on the shelf behind the back seat (in the
window) of my parents old Pontiac as a youngster. The only way to ride...
Now people are scared to put a child in a child seat in the passenger side
of a Honda Insight because there is an air bag there.
I heard a child once choked to death on a piece of food, perhaps I should
stop feeding my children :-)
BTW - there is even a hook for the new fangled child seats with tethers
built into the Insight, so it was designed with the idea that a child seat
could be used, but of course the lawyers force Honda to put the big yellow
warning on the visor advising against using a child seat.
All 4 of my kids have logged plenty of miles in my Honda Insight and I
haven't lost one yet. Of course that may change soon as my oldest is 15
going on 16 and will be driving solo starting next April. Talk about scary.
damon
From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Honda to Stop Making Insights
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 11:29:20 -0500
You hit the nail on the head there, Chris. Will child seats not
recommended for the car, a huge chunk of the hybrid buyers market is
cut out.
My sister and her husband were looking to buy a second car, and since
they are going used for VERY reasonable prices I recommended it. They
were interested, but when we realized they could not put in a child
seat it was completely rejected, even as a second car!
-Mike
On 5/25/06, Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Only problem is it's a 2 seater and I have a family. Still I'd buy one
and put a Dolphin into it.
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--- Begin Message ---
Jonathan Smith wrote:
<SNIP>
Not to say it isn't so, I just have not heard of a T-1275 8V. Sounds more
like a model number for a Douglas.
The T-1275 is a 12 Volt battery. It appears to basically be a
modified version of the J150.
If cost is an issue, the US Battery 8V is cost competitive.
This issue isn't so much cost as fitting them in the car. Despite
the larger size it might be easier to fit 13 T-1275s than 18
T-875s. Also, the T-1275's or J150s would allow me to keep my 156
Volt nominal system, though everything is adaptable enough to drop to
144, though the Zivan would have to be reprogrammed either way.
I know some folks have done small front drive conversions like my
Civic and retained the back seat and installed 18 8 Volters, but I
don't think that is a good way to get a car that corners well and
stops safely. I removed the rear seat and built a CRX like deck to
hide the batteries which are sunk though the floor in a well where
the gas tank originally was. Even with original 1144 pound pack of
Delphi AGMs in it it still handled extremely well. 13 T-1275s would
be 1066 pounds, 13 J150s would be 1092 pounds, and 18 T-875s would be
1134 pounds. All of these would apparently do well, but because they
cannot be mounted on end like the current Dynasty AGMs, some will
have to go behind the rear axle.
The goal of all this is getting at least 35-45 mile range and to
switch to a more forgiving battery type so I can get some real
service life, without turning the car into a pig. AGMs are fun, but
frankly I don't seem to have good luck with them. I want something
more forgiving, even if it does increase the maintenance. Watering
the batteries every couple of months or so is an acceptable
burden. If I get real picky I guess I could add one of the automated
watering systems.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
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--- Begin Message ---
Can you give the website where the points are posted? I google searched but
didn't find it...
I work at a TV station. Thought I would see if they would do a story.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 17:23:55 EDT
Subject: Re: Current Eliminator News!!!!!!
In a message dated 6/4/06 5:22:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Current Eliminator News!!!!!!
Date: 6/4/06 5:22:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
In a message dated 6/4/06 9:54:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re:Current Eliminator News!!!!!!
Date: 6/4/06 9:54:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rod Hower)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Dennis,
Congratulations!!!
With the cost of gas in the news everyday I would
think
the national news should be doing a story on this and
get even more EV press.
Keep up the good work!
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> After a long week of racing great news,we took over
> the NHRA Summit Super Pro
> points lead. The final round 2am. Again my .00
> reaction times played a huge
> factor, but the CE also did its job. Of the 5 round
> wins I redialed the car 4
> times. The motor temp started at 113F and ended the
> night at 116F.
> The batteries started at 121F and ended at 128F. The
> track temp. started at
> 151F and ended at 97F. It was a warm night to race
> in a double layer race suit
> siting 4 inches off the track. I am sure I lost at
> least 5lbs. Of the 5 round
> wins 4 cars were quicker than 8.5 seconds. 2 racers
> broke out by .003. Last
> night was huge in that the points leader lost in the
> 1st round and I went all
> the way. I now have at least a 4 round advantage in
> 1st place. 3rd 4th and 5th
> places fell further behind as I took them out early.
> Again these are the
> Division champs at my track for the last 3 years so
> I now have more points then any
> other NHRA div track. HUGE EV PRESS.
>
>
> Dennis Berube
> >>
I forgot to mention the prizes,$1000,large trophy,car ramps,jacks and roll
around. Dennis >>
Well the Points are posted on the Speedworld website. The Current Eliminator
Dragster has a 401 point advantage over 2nd place.That is at least 4 rounds
more than the ICE dragsters in the super pro class.
Dennis Berube
________________________________________________________________________
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All on demand. Always Free.
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Dave wrote:
>[Roger wrote:]
>
> >LatchA.pin1 = 1; //set pin 1 of latch A
> >LatchA.pin3 = 0; //clear pin 1 of latch A
> >
> >This sort of construct can greatly improve readability,
>
> Roger, or is it Rodger :>},
"Roger": it is actually the French version of the name ;^>
> how does calling the bit pin1 to set
> and pin3 to clear improe readability?
I wasn't as clear as I should have been; it is the use of the entire
construct "LatchA.pin1" that improves readability over something like
"setBit(LatchA, BIT0)".
The improved readability comes from the construct allowing one to
manipulate each bit directly without the complication of masking off
bits or performing logical operations to set/clear/test one bit at a
time.
Now that said, I would be of the opinion that "LatchA.pin1" does improve
readability/understandability over "LatchA.1", since it does make it
more explicit to the reader that the statement "LatchA.pin1 = HIGH;"
sets pin 1 of port LatchA to the high state. This is the same reason
why I expanded the original variable name from "LATA" to "LatchA".
While there is not really any reason for assembly programmers to use
short variable names, most seem to do so, while I insist on meaningful,
descriptive variable and function names in the (primarily C) code I or
the people working with me write.
Cheers,
Roger.
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