EV Digest 5555
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Flying out to San Francisco this weekend
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Electric Auto Association mentioned in July's Popular Mechanics
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Conversion on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: Flying out to San Francisco this weekend
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Does any one have "Lic. Plate Envy
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: K&W BC20...156V charging?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: curtis 1231
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) re: White Zombie Fails to hit 11's
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Alternative battery chemistries (was: Three questions (was:
Announcement of new NEDRA ...))
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Electric/EV basic knowledge
by Nikki Bloomfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Does any one have "Lic. Plate Envy
by Nikki Bloomfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Who Killed The Electric Car?
by Nikki Bloomfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Who Killed The Electric Car?
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Pic stuff (was) LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: curtis 1231
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: San Jose EAA Meeting info
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Three questions (was: Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage Divi
sions)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: curtis 1231
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re:Current Eliminator Dragster News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) RE: Who Killed The Electric Car?
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Three questions (was: Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage
Divi sions)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Pic stuff (was) LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> Many of us live south of SF because we are in the heart of Silicon
Valley.
>
>
Hey, I live in a town once nicknamed Voltageville due to the high
number of charging stations, and we're ~50 miles east of S.F.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Electric Auto Association is mentioned in the July issue of
Popular Mechanics.
On page 26 of the article "150-mpg Lithium-Ion Hybrids"
The last sentence of the article says, "The nonprofit group
CalCars.org is working with the Electric Auto Association to develop
a do-it-yourself kit for under $5000."
That's pretty cool!
Chip Gribben
Electric Auto Association of Washington DC
http://www.evadc.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is the seller on the list?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4647644891
A little rich for me, but I certainly like the paint scheme on that expansion
box for battery space - a little galaxy sitting in the bed!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you are staying till Monday night we could go to Goat Hill Pizza. It's
all you can eat salad and pizza. They bring you an assortment of pizzas by
the slice. It has got to be the best pizza experience I've ever had. John
Wayland if you are ever in SF you have an open invitation & you will go nuts
over this place. Monday night however is the only night they offer the
multi pizza experience. We might EVen look at my vehicles. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:21 PM
Subject: Flying out to San Francisco this weekend
> I'm going to be flying out to San Francisco to meet with a guy and work
> on his US Electricar truck/Prizm this weekend. This is probably going to
> be a simple fix, meaning I'll have some time to tool around and meet
people.
>
> Would anyone like to get together with an East Coast EVer while I'm out
> there? Dinner/tour of cars/chatting/whatever? It would be interesting to
> meet some of you while I'm there.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marvin Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:00 PM
Subject: Does any one have "Lic. Plate Envy
> My wife has, "DO MORE".
>
> Mine says, "GAS SUX".
>
> Can't believe Kalifornia let that one out. Did find out they have a list
of
> words that automatically kick you out of the running.
>
> They denied "WAR(heart)OIL".
>
> Go figure.
> But here in CT they let "Yuk Fu' get by!? I see him, now an' again on
the Turnpike!
Seeya
Bob
> Marv
>
> > From: "EVDave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:07:23 -0400
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Subject: RE: Does any one have "Lic. Plate Envy ?"
> >
> > It just takes creativity. Here is mine....
> >
> > http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/e10dave/detail?.dir=dd7bre2&.dnm=78f4re2.j
> > pg&.src=ph
> >
> >
> > Dave banas
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Steven Lough
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:06 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Electric Vehicle
> > Discussion List RCVR
> > Subject: Does any one have "Lic. Plate Envy ?"
> >
> >
> > This PLATE:
> >
> > ( http://home.comcast.net/~stevenslough/OneHundredOneMPG.jpg )
> >
> > is sitting on one of our friends Volvo's. It is NOT a vanity Plate,
> > it was just a number which came up in the normal sequence...
> >
> > My sister WORKS for a franchised Wa.State Lice Agency... So I called
> > her and asked her if This Plate could be transferred to someone ..
> > ... how should I put it... More Deserving !
> >
> > And unfortunately she said she does not think it is possible...
> >
> > Too Bad... I know one guy here in Wa. State, with the enitials
> > Ryan Fulcher... would probably PAY BIG BUCKS to have that plate.
> >
> > Sorry Ryan....
> > --
> > Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> > Seattle EV Association
> > 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> > Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> > Day: 206 850-8535
> > Eve: 206 524-1351
> > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
KTA's catalog lists 144V as max. on the model with LB.
That squares with my memory of the programming
resistors (thanks Ken Koch, who got them to me), of
144V as being the max.
Sorry,
--- "Mueller, Craig M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I currently have a line booster on my K&W BC20 to
> charge my 120V pack
> (LB-20)... Can I get it to charge a 156V pack
> (nominal)?
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your whine is due to what is called duty cycle. The
Curtis goes from 1.5 kHz (low speeds) to 15 kHz (high
speeds). That's why you only hear it at first. I
don't think it was the goal of the manufacturer to
notify pedestrians; I think other EEs on the list will
tell you it has to do with current pull, or
efficiency.
Many controllers only cycle at 15 kHz. Ie, after I
sold the Rabbit with the Curtis in it, I now have a
DCP Raptor 600 (no longer available, though the 1200A
version is). Due to the high cycle, there is no
noise.
A browse through the catalogs will tell you what
frequency the controllers operate at.
peace,
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> We have a Curtis 1231 (500 Amp in the Ford Escort)
> purchased in the year 1997
> As you push the pedal, a "whine" is made on purpose
> by the controller so
> that if in a parking lot, you can't run over someone
> who doesn't hear you
> coming (as explained to us by EVAmerica when we
> asked about it.)
>
> the electric motor (we used the Advanced DC 9" is
> fairly silent at low
> speeds, but you'll hear it at higher RPM's. nothing
> bad, just noticeable.)
>
> are any other DC motors more silent?
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
".... It's sunny and warm on the weekdays, then when the weekend
arrives, so does the anti-EV Vortex"
That may be becasue the thousands of ICE engines and buisnesses put out
so much heat waste that they create an artificail high pressure area.
Friday the buisnesses close, people don't go to work saturday morning
and the high pressure subsides, In comes the rain if it has been waiting
off shore :-(
Really. not kidding.
Man you guys are making me want to move up there.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It isn't that cars with other battery chemistries have not competed
at NEDRA events before. Over the years, there have been a few
vehicles that have competed at NEDRA events that had something other
than lead-acid batteries. There have not been a huge number, but
there have been more than one.
One was the "Twike" that ran nicads. (That was about 5 or maybe 6
years ago.) Another was the BYU EV1 car that ran ultra caps. I seem
to recall that Dennis tried out some nicads at some point. I'm
running Li-Ion these days. I recall a formula lighting car that was
running nicads. No doubt there are others that I have forgotten. I
think we used the 13/12ths rule to classify these cars within the
existing voltage divisions, but I could easily be mistaken.
Folks often run 6 volt batteries and 8 volt batteries, so there
really is no requirement that the car have some multiple of 12 volts
for a pack voltage to be easily classified within the existing system.
If you think about it, voltage is voltage as long as you use a
voltmeter. Counting the number and type of cells is just another way
of adding up what the voltmeter would read.
Just like AGM lead-acid batteries swept into EV racing, Li-Ion
batteries will do the same thing. In a few years, as they become less
expensive, and more readily available, it is likely that a large
fraction of the EV drag racing competitors will be using Li-Ion
batteries. It is also very likely that all production street EVs and
hybrids will switch over to Li-Ion in the next few years.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi guys and gals,
I'd say go for a project kit! I started off with one when I was five
(My folks luckily ignored the store who told them in no uncertain
terms that a girl aged five should not be playing with a kit designed
for a boy of the age of 12 upwards!
I also find the "Make" magazine a really useful resource. Sure, some
of the projects in there are pretty advanced, but others are really
very simple. There's a really healthy online community of makers too
- all of which can direct you to useful resources, projects and local
"make" groups. I have yet to meet a 'maker' who isn't a really nice
person and I'm sure you could always start by getting to know someone
locally who won't mind helping you out if things get a bit tough.
The most elegant design is often the simplest. Speaking as someone
who only has a Physics A level from High school I'm no engineer but I
would echo some of the other's comments. You can be told that A=B
(C^2) by a textbook or a website but you gain so much more from
understanding why. Experiment, play, and start simple.
In my own experience it's often the lessons learnt after spending
hours pondering a problem only to discover I was at fault which teach
me the most!
Good Luck
Nikki
On 7 Jun 2006, at 21:56, David Dymaxion wrote:
You could google on "science project." The projects are often fun
things and usually a to-the-point quick read.
--- Patrick Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Greetings EV-ers.
As a newbie who feels quite ignorant about things electrical when
he
reads this list - not stupid, just ignorant (ok, well I sometimes
FEEL
stupid, too, but honest...) - I'd like to educate myself on the
topic.
Not looking for an EE degree, but a good basic understanding of
electricity that would give me some base to be applied here in the
EV
world. I'd like to be able to *follow* these conversations here,
and get
more than just a vague feeling of what folks are talking about when
they
get into charging/controllers/motors discussions, etc.
Can anyone recommend a course of action/study? Electricity for
Dummies?
Don't laugh (ok, but keep it down to a dull roar, eh?), but the Mrs
wants to buy me one of those Radio Shack type "Electric Lab" kits..
should I let her or is that too toylike? Any online courses that
aren't
too expensive? I'm not (initially at least, one never knows!)
looking to
change careers, but I think I'd really enjoy having *some* sort of
grounding (so to speak) in electrical matters, especially as they
pertain to this EVer-so-intriquing hobby/endeavour!
Prefer something I can pursue on my own schedule, which is pretty
full
at the moment. Assume no prior knowledge/experience, but a quick
study
when motivated.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice.
- Patrick
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Easy for me - My '65 minor has an old classic plate and in the UK I'm
not allowed to change it for a vanity plate indicating a newer year.
We've got weird licensing laws here for cars. You're allowed a plate
which was released before you car was made, but not one denoting a
year after the manufacture date.
Anyway - when I go to Canada (hopefully) we'll just keep the plate
she currently has. Still, it's tempting to have "She be EV" (The car
is know as "Hebe" at the moment because her plate is "EBE 167C" )
Regards
Nikki
On 8 Jun 2006, at 01:00, Marvin Campbell wrote:
My wife has, "DO MORE".
Mine says, "GAS SUX".
Can't believe Kalifornia let that one out. Did find out they have a
list of
words that automatically kick you out of the running.
They denied "WAR(heart)OIL".
Go figure.
Marv
From: "EVDave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:07:23 -0400
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Does any one have "Lic. Plate Envy ?"
It just takes creativity. Here is mine....
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/e10dave/
detail?.dir=dd7bre2&.dnm=78f4re2.j
pg&.src=ph
Dave banas
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steven Lough
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:06 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Electric Vehicle
Discussion List RCVR
Subject: Does any one have "Lic. Plate Envy ?"
This PLATE:
( http://home.comcast.net/~stevenslough/OneHundredOneMPG.jpg )
is sitting on one of our friends Volvo's. It is NOT a vanity
Plate,
it was just a number which came up in the normal sequence...
My sister WORKS for a franchised Wa.State Lice Agency... So I called
her and asked her if This Plate could be transferred to someone ..
... how should I put it... More Deserving !
And unfortunately she said she does not think it is possible...
Too Bad... I know one guy here in Wa. State, with the enitials
Ryan Fulcher... would probably PAY BIG BUCKS to have that plate.
Sorry Ryan....
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick,
That is absolutely fantastic!
Please keep us up to date with it. If they're looking for a showing
in the UK I think I could quite easily arrange one in Bristol.
Feel free to pass on my details if they would like me to see what I
can do :)
Nikki
On 8 Jun 2006, at 01:04, Roderick Wilde wrote:
Steve, Good news! I just spoke with the producers and it will be
released in the UK. They said they will get back to me with a
release date. More good news, Richard Titus, the producer of the
film personally invited me to the premiere opening in Los Angeles
on June 24th at The Los Angeles Film Festival. They want me to
bring Gone Postal. They will have an event following the showing
with displays. I am sure Reverend Gadget will be there. Our company
has yet to make a decision. I will keep you all informed.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message ----- From: "steve ollerton"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: Who Killed The Electric Car?
This film looks great. How do we go about seeing it here in the
UK? Anyone know?
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Campbell"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 5:35 AM
Subject: Who Killed The Electric Car?
I just went to a screening of this movie and it ROCKS!
Funniest part for me was the guy from the petroleum producers
association
saying that electric cars were a terrible mistake that we must
NEVER REPEAT
(guffaw!)
S. David Freeman figured very prominently as well. Neon John
should know him
as he used to work for the TVA.
Of course Rev. Gadget's in there as well. God...whatta ham! That guy
certainly gets around. Where does he find the time to do all this
stuff? Oh
yeah, he's got no kids. That explains it:^O
If you can see this movie, do it. I think it's out in general
release June
28th. If you're out in the "real world" (i.e., not NY/LA) call
your local
movie theatre and ask them to show it. It's being distributed by
Sony
Classic Pictures.
MarvyMarv
Culver City, CA
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.2/357 - Release Date:
6/6/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.2/357 - Release Date:
6/6/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roderick,
Unfortunately it's missed the Edinburgh Film Festival (starts next
month), but I look forward to seeing it over here at some point
anyway.
Cheers
Evan.
On 6/8/06, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Steve, Good news! I just spoke with the producers and it will be released in
the UK. They said they will get back to me with a release date. More good
news, Richard Titus, the producer of the film personally invited me to the
premiere opening in Los Angeles on June 24th at The Los Angeles Film
Festival. They want me to bring Gone Postal. They will have an event
following the showing with displays. I am sure Reverend Gadget will be
there. Our company has yet to make a decision. I will keep you all informed.
Roderick Wilde
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
> Actually your style is a bit flawed for PIC.
Quite possible; I don't do PICs ;^>
> If you only have to set or clear ONE bit, then
> it should just be:
> LATB0=1; //PICC18
> LATAPins.1=1; //MCC18, I don't think I stated
> the macro exactly right.
Those appear like they could be non-standard extensions to the C
language provided by PIC-specific compilers; my "style" is portable ANSI
C ;^>
The notation "LATAPins.1" suggests an integer bitfield structure that
allows each bit to be manipulated as a separate entity, however, I don't
believe that any of the compilers I've used will allow a structure
member name to start with a number ("1"). A portable C construct would
have the form:
LatchA.pin1 = 1; //set pin 1 of latch A
LatchA.pin3 = 0; //clear pin 1 of latch A
This sort of construct can greatly improve readability, however, whether
or not it compiles to take advantage of a single bit-fiddling
instruction depends entirely on the quality of the compiler and/or
optimiser. In general, use of bitfields like this tend to result in
less-efficient code, so if you are really counting cycles or bytes of
program space, you need to know how your particular compiler operates
before using such things.
> Also, writing Port registers this way can cause a glitch
> if part of the port has been an input but gets changed to
> an output later in the code.
No, this should not be the case. The reason for reading the register
and ORing a single bit is so that only the bit we are deliberately
manipulating is affected. Usually, there is a distinct register that
configures the I/O port bits as inputs or outputs, etc., and we are not
manipulating that register. In well-designed micros writing to a bit
that is configured as an input has no effect, just as reading a bit
configured as an output often does not echo back the present state of
the output pin.
> Also, it leads to split macros. For example, I keep ALL my pin
> definitions in their own single file, nowhere else in the
> project.
I've no idea what you mean by split macros. I certainly agree with you
as far as keeping your pin definitions grouped in some single, central
location, however, this has no impact at all on the use of macros like
the setBit() and clearBit() examples I suggested.
I also agree with your suggestion that pin & port definitions be
*logical" rather than *physical*, i.e. use "PORT_DATAIN" and "SDO_PIN"
(which describe the logical function) rather than "LATB0" and "PORTD"
(which describe the physical hardware resource). When you port the code
to a different hardware platform (and/or different micro), the logical
function will likely remain the same even if the I/O pin used ends up on
a different port on the device, etc.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi,
do you mean the frequency instead of duty cycle? The reason why the whine is
apparent is because the curits steps down the frequency of PWM to 1.5 kHz,
so that it can more accurately achieve low duty cycles with higher
reliability. Its hard to get duty cycles of less than 1% with high switching
frequencies. ALso, in curtis controllers with plug braking, the controller
also switches at 1.5 kHz during plugging, so that the duty cycle is small,
therefore, small voltages across the field and hence induce a large current,
this is essential because the field and armature current is not being
interrupted by the commutator of the motor, hence that is why the duty cycle
is small, to limit the amount of current induced in the field windings.
Cheers
hope it helps
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: curtis 1231
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 22:08:38 -0700 (PDT)
Your whine is due to what is called duty cycle. The
Curtis goes from 1.5 kHz (low speeds) to 15 kHz (high
speeds). That's why you only hear it at first. I
don't think it was the goal of the manufacturer to
notify pedestrians; I think other EEs on the list will
tell you it has to do with current pull, or
efficiency.
Many controllers only cycle at 15 kHz. Ie, after I
sold the Rabbit with the Curtis in it, I now have a
DCP Raptor 600 (no longer available, though the 1200A
version is). Due to the high cycle, there is no
noise.
A browse through the catalogs will tell you what
frequency the controllers operate at.
peace,
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> We have a Curtis 1231 (500 Amp in the Ford Escort)
> purchased in the year 1997
> As you push the pedal, a "whine" is made on purpose
> by the controller so
> that if in a parking lot, you can't run over someone
> who doesn't hear you
> coming (as explained to us by EVAmerica when we
> asked about it.)
>
> the electric motor (we used the Advanced DC 9" is
> fairly silent at low
> speeds, but you'll hear it at higher RPM's. nothing
> bad, just noticeable.)
>
> are any other DC motors more silent?
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property
http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Unfortunately I will not be able to meet you, bummer!
Although I am landing Friday (back from a business trip)
the Saturdaymorning is just enough time to repack for
a trip to The Netherlands, so my whole family will go to
San Francisco on Sat afternoon.
BTW - not everyone is south of SF, for example
Michael Bearden (BMW, Goggomobil and Posche flambe) and
several others in the direction of Santa Rosa and Eastbay.
But it is true - San Jose and Palo Alto are EV breeding grounds.
See you another time!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 9:03 PM
To: Christopher Zach
Subject: San Jose EAA Meeting info
Chris,
Here is our group website. The contact info and directions are on
there. We are at Reid Hillview airport in San Jose, so it's easy to
find. It's the small airport next to the huge San Jose airport.
http://geocities.com/sjeaa/
I'm at 408/736-6453 at home. I leave around 9:30am Saturday morning to
get there early.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> BTW - we hear frequently about motor series/parallelling.
>> How is a car classified that does battery series/parallel switching?
>> Is it the highest voltage that can be reached when series switching?
>
>Voltage is measured at the battery pack,Period!
I think you did not understand my question.
What if the pack can be switched from (for example) 144V to 288V?
(either two strings of 144V parallel or in series)
Which class does this fall in?
What if I can switch the battery pack from 12V to 24V to 48V?
(4 parallel; 2 series of 2 parallel; 4 series)
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 3:12 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu; ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Three questions (was: Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage
Divisions)
> [Original Message]
> From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 6/7/2006 8:51:36 AM
> Subject: RE: Three questions (was: Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage
Divisions)
>
> Boosting the battery voltage is exactly what the newer Prius (2004+)
> are doing: battery is 200V, motor controller is taking 500V DC or
> thereabouts.
Hybrids can not be raced in NEDRA classes all motive power must come from
batteries carried on board the vehicle.
> I am not suggesting that Prius are racing material, just to say that
> it is not an uncommon situation.
> NEDRA will need to define _where_ and _how_ to measure the voltage.
> If it's the batteries nominal voltage spec as in 2V per lead acid cell
> and 1.2 V per NiCd cell, etc., then all that is needed is to publish
> a list of battery chemistries and voltage per cell that is counted,
> then everyone can figure out the nr of series connected cells and
> determine their class.
>
> If you want to determine the class from max motor voltage then there
> is no need to have 12V steps, as motor voltage max will depend on a
> lot of things: AC or DC (RMS voltage on the AC output as the reference?)
> and the max PWM output times the peak voltage or just the peak voltage
> for DC drive? and so on....
>
> BTW - we hear frequently about motor series/parallelling.
> How is a car classified that does battery series/parallel switching?
> Is it the highest voltage that can be reached when series switching?
Voltage is measured at the battery pack,Period!
>
> At some point in time it may be beneficial to distinguish classes
> between "lead" and "advance chemistries" instead of lumping them
> together, but I'll leave it to someone else to determine if we want
> a class per chemistry or just keep one class and allow everyone to
> choose according budget and performance of chemistries.
As of now I belive there is only one Lion vehicle actively racing and it is
running high voltage.
A notation of battery chemestry in the record listing is a possible way to
resolve the issue.
The board of directors will determine how to handle this issue and post it
for comment by the NEDRA
membership after 30days the board of directors will vote on and post the
rules.
Any one wishing to build an electric drag racing vehicle should aquire a
NHRA rule book,
and read sec.1A,1C,1G,1H,and the general rules sec. Then go to NEDRA.COM.
and read
theNedra rules. If this is done before starting the project it can save
problems down the road.
Build a machine and come out and race," Father Time"
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:56 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu; ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Three questions (was: Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage
> Divisions)
>
>
> No one has tried building and racing a boost controller, but
> it has been proposed before. I suspect that the weight, cost, and
> perhaps inefficiency, might outweigh the possible advantage, but I
> could easily be wrong.
>
> Someone should try it. Maybe it will work.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
> At 05:06 PM 6/4/2006, Jorg Brown wrote:
> >Well said, Bill, especially your note about the membership's 30-day
comment
> >period.
> >
> >One thing I've been curious about for some time is how the voltage is
done.
> >As you've mentioned, the "nominal" voltage is clear for lead-acid but not
> so
> >clear for other chemistries, because other chemistries don't have as
wide a
> >voltage range as lead-acid does.
> >
> >But putting that question to the side, I've wondered if there is any
> thought
> >about what happens if a controller increases the voltage? Suppose I aim
to
> >break the 24V records by using, say, 30 hawkers in two heavily parallel
> >packs of 15 each. Then I use a special step-up controller that takes my
> >voltage back up to, say, 240V. Is that still considered a 24V-class
> >vehicle?
> >
> >And if that's considered a 240V vehicle, then what about AC drive? Do we
> >use RMS equivalence, the same way that 110VAC is really 311V
peak-to-peak?
> >
> >jorg
> >
> >ps Personally I think it'd be better to use 30-sec peak power output (of
> the
> >batteries), instead of voltage, but that's a long discussion for some
other
> >day.
> >
> >On 6/3/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>New voltage divisions are very a good idea. As higher voltage packs
> >>appear at the track, it is smart to have more divisions to keep them
> >>from all bunching together in a single category.
> >>
> >>Three important subject areas were not addressed in your
> >>announcement, however.
> >>
> >>1) What happens with the existing "A" voltage records? Will they be
> >>re-assigned? When (if) these existing records are moved, will "second
> >>place" records, previously set, move into their place? If folks have
> >>the proper documentation, will records set in the past be allowed in
> >>these new categories?
> >>
> >>2) How will the voltage of other battery types be placed within these
> >>divisions? The voltages in these divisions were designed for
> >>"nominal" lead-acid voltages. The measured open-circuit voltage of
> >>fully-charged lead-acid batteries is actually 13/12 times these
> >>numbers. Would that be the voltage used for chemistries different
> >>than lead-acid, or would some other formula be used?
> >>
> >>3) Doesn't the NEDRA charter require a 30 day member comment period
> >>before new rules go into effect? Since this new rule was just
> >>announced, shouldn't the members have 30 days to comment before it
> >>becomes official? To whom would members send their comments? Where
> >>would the member comments be listed? Where would the answers to the
> >>comments be listed?
> >>
> >> Bill Dube'
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>At 05:11 AM 6/3/2006, you wrote:
> >> >NEDRA is pleased to announce two new Voltage Divisions. Effectively
> >> >immediately, we are adding two higher voltage divisions for a total
> >> >of 12 in all. This means that there are more record setting
> >> >opportunities for higher voltage vehicles beginning at the Power of
> >> >DC event, this weekend at Hagerstown, Maryland. Please see the Power
> >> >of DC site at http://www.powerofdc.com for all event details.
> >> >
> >> >We are seeing a major trend at the track toward higher voltages, so
> >> >we wanted to provide some additional divisions for these higher
> >> >voltage competitors. As the previously highest voltage division was
> >> >designated "A", these two new divisions will be designated "A2" and
> >> >"A3" respectively.
> >> >
> >> >All the NEDRA voltage divisions are currently based on multiples of
> >> >nominal 12 volt batteries.
> >> >
> >> >New NEDRA Voltage Divisions
> >> >----------------------------------
> >> >Division A3 - 349 Volts and above
> >> >Division A2 - 301 Volts - 348 Volts
> >> >Division A - 241 Volts - 300 Volts
> >> >Division B - 193 Volts - 240 Volts
> >> >Division C - 169 Volts - 192 Volts
> >> >Division D - 145 Volts - 168 Volts
> >> >Division E - 121 Volts - 144 Volts
> >> >Division F - 97 Volts - 120 Volts
> >> >Division G - 73 Volts - 96 Volts
> >> >Division H - 49 Volts - 72 Volts
> >> >Division I - 25 Volts - 48 Volts
> >> >Division J - 24 Volts and below
> >> >
> >> >All NEDRA record setters and record breakers receive a pair of
> >> >Oakley Sunglasses.
> >> >
> >> >See you at the races!
> >> >
> >> >-Ken Trough
> >> >NEDRA Public Relations
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rob,
No - Bob said it correctly.
To achieve a low Duty Cycle (with low power to the motor)
the Curtis needs to lower the frequency as it has a fixed
time of switching "on", so it can only achieve low duty cycle
by extending the "off" period, hence the low frequency, for which
the human ear is many (million) times more sensitive than the high
frequency whine, which will only scare dogs and other animals.
So, as you indicated, it is a consequence of the PWM generator
choice, not an intentional feature (as far as I know).
But it can be sold as a feature, better than promoting it as a
nuisance ;-}
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Robert Chew
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 3:40 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: curtis 1231
hi,
do you mean the frequency instead of duty cycle? The reason why the whine is
apparent is because the curits steps down the frequency of PWM to 1.5 kHz,
so that it can more accurately achieve low duty cycles with higher
reliability. Its hard to get duty cycles of less than 1% with high switching
frequencies. ALso, in curtis controllers with plug braking, the controller
also switches at 1.5 kHz during plugging, so that the duty cycle is small,
therefore, small voltages across the field and hence induce a large current,
this is essential because the field and armature current is not being
interrupted by the commutator of the motor, hence that is why the duty cycle
is small, to limit the amount of current induced in the field windings.
Cheers
hope it helps
>From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: curtis 1231
>Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 22:08:38 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Your whine is due to what is called duty cycle. The
>Curtis goes from 1.5 kHz (low speeds) to 15 kHz (high
>speeds). That's why you only hear it at first. I
>don't think it was the goal of the manufacturer to
>notify pedestrians; I think other EEs on the list will
>tell you it has to do with current pull, or
>efficiency.
> Many controllers only cycle at 15 kHz. Ie, after I
>sold the Rabbit with the Curtis in it, I now have a
>DCP Raptor 600 (no longer available, though the 1200A
>version is). Due to the high cycle, there is no
>noise.
>A browse through the catalogs will tell you what
>frequency the controllers operate at.
>peace,
>
>--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > We have a Curtis 1231 (500 Amp in the Ford Escort)
> > purchased in the year 1997
> > As you push the pedal, a "whine" is made on purpose
> > by the controller so
> > that if in a parking lot, you can't run over someone
> > who doesn't hear you
> > coming (as explained to us by EVAmerica when we
> > asked about it.)
> >
> > the electric motor (we used the Advanced DC 9" is
> > fairly silent at low
> > speeds, but you'll hear it at higher RPM's. nothing
> > bad, just noticeable.)
> >
> > are any other DC motors more silent?
> >
> >
>
>
>Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
>has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
>Learn more at:
>www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
>Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
>wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
_________________________________________________________________
realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property
http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The CE will be racing again this weekend on Sat. night at Firebird
Raceway.Its team firebirds summit race series three.Its a $1000 + to win and
since my
average reaction time is better at firebird and the track is close why not get
a
few more break in cycles on the new pack of hawkers from Sunbelt Battery.
Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roderick,
> I just spoke with the producers and it will
> be released in the UK.
Cool -- any word on whether it'll reach those of us in the colonies? (ie.
Australia :-)
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you did not understand my question.
What if the pack can be switched from (for example) 144V to 288V?
(either two strings of 144V parallel or in series)
Which class does this fall in?
What if I can switch the battery pack from 12V to 24V to 48V?
(4 parallel; 2 series of 2 parallel; 4 series)
When series-parallel switching is used, the maximum pack
voltage is the one that is used to classify the car.
If you think about it, it only makes sense to do it that way.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
>From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jun 7, 2006 3:50 PM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: RE: Pic stuff (was) LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
>
>snip>
>The notation "LATAPins.1" suggests an integer bitfield structure that
>allows each bit to be manipulated as a separate entity, however, I don't
>believe that any of the compilers I've used will allow a structure
>member name to start with a number ("1"). A portable C construct would
>have the form:
>
>LatchA.pin1 = 1; //set pin 1 of latch A
>LatchA.pin3 = 0; //clear pin 1 of latch A
>
>This sort of construct can greatly improve readability,
Roger, or is it Rodger :>} , how does calling the bit pin1 to set
and pin3 to clear improe readability?
<snip>
--- End Message ---
