EV Digest 5560
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: buildup on battery terminal - why?
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: buildup on battery terminal - why?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Can someone give me the bottom line on batteries?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) contactor cooling
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Advice for FIL: NEV, Hybrid, or...?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Advice for FIL: NEV, Hybrid, or...?
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Suitable weights...
by Nikki Bloomfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: buildup on battery terminal - why?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Need quick source for 6.8 volt zeners
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Another way to get isolated DC-DC....
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Need quick source for 6.8 volt zeners
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Need quick source for 6.8 volt zeners
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Another way to get isolated DC-DC....
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Suitable weights...
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) home made charger
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) RE: home made charger
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Scrounging for cheap EV parts
by Patrick Maston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) PBS Tonight: "Who Killed the Electric Car?"
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Temperature sensor for SAFT NiCds
by Nick Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Can someone give me the bottom line on batteries?
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) City Range
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: home made charger
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Suitable weights...
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Air Bags: was Re: Honda to Stop Making Insights
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Need quick source for 6.8 volt zeners
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: META: lost messages/digests (RE: "Xebra (or.. ?) advice for FIL")
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Ampabout ... ... HOV sticker on a conversion?!?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: PHEV - speed?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Electric Auto Association mentioned in July's Popular Mechani
cs
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> Stud mounts have no choice but to use one torque-wrench on the nut,
> as that should be the only moving part, and hopefully the stud was
> designed to take at least the rated torque (140 in-lb to 160 in-lb on
mine).
Yeah, but the EV 'spurts on this list will tell you that's also foolish.
They'll tell ya to put 2 nuts on that stud and then with 2 wrenches,
compress your lug between 'em. And yeah, it's a good idea...but I haven't
done it yet...
-Myles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Installing a terminal between any two nuts or even washers, did not work for
me. The battery stud, being made out of stainless steel as well as the
washers and nut, built up too much resistance.
One time, I install a stainless steel washer below the lug terminal which
had a 1/2 inch hole and than another stainless steel washer, lock washer and
a nut, torque to 100 inch lbs. The power loss was so great, it felt like I
had discharge batteries. The stainless steel fitting where hot to the
touch.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 7:41 AM
Subject: RE: buildup on battery terminal - why?
> > Stud mounts have no choice but to use one torque-wrench on the nut,
> > as that should be the only moving part, and hopefully the stud was
> > designed to take at least the rated torque (140 in-lb to 160 in-lb on
> mine).
>
> Yeah, but the EV 'spurts on this list will tell you that's also foolish.
> They'll tell ya to put 2 nuts on that stud and then with 2 wrenches,
> compress your lug between 'em. And yeah, it's a good idea...but I haven't
> done it yet...
>
> -Myles
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rocky Lear wrote:
> I am a newbie. I need 20 6v's for my electric truck which is 120V.
> What I want to know is, can I switch to 15 8V batteries instead and
> save some weight? I want to buy good batteries. Basically the best
> bang for the buck. I know there's a lot of battery talk on here but
> I'm having trouble, as a newcomer, getting to the bottom line.
The bottom line is that battery weight = range. Using 8v instead of 6v
batteries means you can use fewer batteries for any particular voltage
-- but you will get less range.
Also, if you try to drive as fast with the 8v as the 6v (same current,
same voltage), each 8v battery is delivering 8/6 = 33% more power. Thus,
they are working harder and tend to have a shorter life as well.
6v will give you the best bang for the buck, if "bang" means low cost
and long life. People use 8v or 12v instead when "bang" means driving
faster and having a smaller, lighter pack.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there any real need for forced cooling of the contactors? I use two, one of
which is opened by braking action. Since they are covered by the tank, i cant
tell if they are getting hot or not.
The bike is running great, i have made the trip to work, 10 miles, stop/go
traffic @ 25 mph with 55% battery capacity left. The Hawkers are performing
well. A little tweeking of the controller curve and the gear ratio will make me
happier!
Game On!
Paul
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I missed something. What does PiPrius stand for? I know what it is, I
just don't see how the name was generated.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Jonathan Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Whoops, never mind, the Ryan's Maker Faire pictures tell the story. He
> installed a Delta-Q Charger, but in PiPrius pictures, I see the
PFC30, so
> Prius Blue is the testbed. The MakerFaire pics also show *grey* OEM NiMH
> pack, and one of about 20 PbA PHEV batteries and half the rack.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
p(lug)i(n)prius
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: "Jonathan Smith" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Advice for FIL: NEV, Hybrid, or...?
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 14:34:17 -0000
I missed something. What does PiPrius stand for? I know what it is, I
just don't see how the name was generated.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Jonathan Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Whoops, never mind, the Ryan's Maker Faire pictures tell the story. He
> installed a Delta-Q Charger, but in PiPrius pictures, I see the
PFC30, so
> Prius Blue is the testbed. The MakerFaire pics also show *grey* OEM NiMH
> pack, and one of about 20 PbA PHEV batteries and half the rack.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So I'm finally sorting out the calculations needed for my car's
conversion, but it's just struck me: I know what the car's stock
weight is but I don't have a clue how much the ICE components weigh!
What's worse is that while i've taken them out I don't have any way
to weigh them.
Since the weight of the car's electric components obviously will
affect the final forces needed (but the choice of the components will
be made working out how much force is required to accelerate the
car...) what do I do?
So far, my calculations (I've only got as far as working out required
acceleration forces) are using the car's stock weight. Of course,
until I have decided what the batteries, controller and motor will be
I can't give a weight to the car from which I can then work out the
required forces. It all seems a little "chicken and the egg". Help!
Do people normally work on the values with their ICE stock car weight
to give a rough idea, or do I need to add a few extra hundred pounds?
Sorry I'm being thick. I've just realised that my Physics exam (way
back in 1998) seems a loooong time ago!
Still, I've finally figured out the required forces in both Newtons
and lb force for the stock car!
Regards
Nikki
P.S. I know there are calculators out there which do it all for you,
but I'm the sort of gal who HATES to just be given a figure. I like
to know exactly HOW that figure is calculated!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> ...or tightening the bolts with just one wrench
Ryan Bohm wrote:
> Will you expound on this? I had to think for a second how to even use
> two wrenches when tightening the bolts. I've only ever used one without
> thinking this could cause damage. Will you please explain the correct
> way to tighten the bolts on terminals to avoid damage? It might save
> several of us from causing damage.
Lead is soft. If your battery posts are lead, they are easily warped and
distorted from excessive force. This can break the seal between the lead
and plastic case. Now you have a "leaker". Acid seeps out from inside to
corrode the post, terminal, wire, and anything else in the vicinity.
If you tighten the bolt on a terminal with one wrench, whatever torque
you apply to the wrench produces an equal an opposite torque in the
terminal itself. Low torque won't hurt; but people have a tendency to
overtighten them (especially after one gets loose and overheats).
The cure is to use TWO wrenches: One on the bolt head, and one on the
nut. Squeeze the two wrench handles together; now the torque and torque
reactions cancel, and there is no pressure on the terminal seal.
PS: Be sure you use wrenchs that have tape or heatshrink or something
over their handles to insulate them. If/when you drop a wrench, Murphy's
Law says it will land across two battery terminals!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Minor problem: Mouser and Digikey and Jameco are currently out of stock
on 6.8 volt, 5w zeners. Anyone know of another local source to the
SF/Pacifica area? We need about 100 of them.
I guess everyone is buying these things :-)
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
>
> Here is what our resident expert wrote some time ago about our IGBT's
> in our chargers. See if this helps.
>
> Quote\
>
> "I measured across the power supply of the UC2708 that drives the gate
> of the IGBTs. Chris made the point maybe it drops under load (lots of
> switching). Its not a charge pump its a transformer. Each IGBT driver
> circuit has a transformer driven by a 12 volt square wave (P12V in the
> telemetry list), the output of the xformer powers the IGBT
> driver. There's also 2 optoisolators, one drives the driver the other
> is feedback to tell the computer that the voltage across the xistor
> did in fact go down. Thats why there's 3 wires to each IGBT driver
> (emitter, gate, collector) not just 2 (gate emitter). BTW an IGBT is
> just a bipolar transistor with a small fet connecting collector to
> base (integrated gate bypolar transistor), its got low gate
> capacitance and lots of voltage capability but otherwise acts like a
> fet except that the minimum on voltage is around .9 volts. Turns out
> for power fets thats pretty typical anyway."
>
> End quote\
That makes sense, Mike. If the IGBT fails, this should limit damage to
only those parts on the secondary side of the transformer and optos.
The designer has to decide how far he wants to go. Suppose a design
needs 10 IGBTs in parallel. He could use a single power transformer and
pair of optos to drive all 10. Or, he could have 10 transformer
secondaries, and 10 sets of optos, one per IGBT. Both work exactly the
same when everything is good. But if an IGBT fails, the first circuit
kills *all* IGBTs. The second circuit kills only one IGBT. One costs
more initially -- the other costs more if it needs to be fixed.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
>
> Minor problem: Mouser and Digikey and Jameco are currently out of stock
> on 6.8 volt, 5w zeners. Anyone know of another local source to the
> SF/Pacifica area? We need about 100 of them.
>
> I guess everyone is buying these things :-)
It would be interesting if that were the case! :-)
I got mine from Mouser. They are made by Microsemi and a couple other
companies, so any of their distributors may have some. In these days of
shallow inventories, they might only bother to stock 100 or so on the
shelf. But it shouldn't take too long for them to get more.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Halted(408-732-1573) in Sunnyvale has them. He said they should have
50+, but he would have to check the warehouse. 1N5342.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Minor problem: Mouser and Digikey and Jameco are currently out of stock
> on 6.8 volt, 5w zeners. Anyone know of another local source to the
> SF/Pacifica area? We need about 100 of them.
>
> I guess everyone is buying these things :-)
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It apprears that the main board layers themselves are suffering damage
as well. I wanted to put some isolation between the main board's
output to the fets, and the fets. There are some 20ga-ish wires
leading from the main board to the fets. Snipping them and inserting a
board with some components is my goal.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> >
> > Here is what our resident expert wrote some time ago about our IGBT's
> > in our chargers. See if this helps.
> >
> > Quote\
> >
> > "I measured across the power supply of the UC2708 that drives the gate
> > of the IGBTs. Chris made the point maybe it drops under load (lots of
> > switching). Its not a charge pump its a transformer. Each IGBT driver
> > circuit has a transformer driven by a 12 volt square wave (P12V in the
> > telemetry list), the output of the xformer powers the IGBT
> > driver. There's also 2 optoisolators, one drives the driver the other
> > is feedback to tell the computer that the voltage across the xistor
> > did in fact go down. Thats why there's 3 wires to each IGBT driver
> > (emitter, gate, collector) not just 2 (gate emitter). BTW an IGBT is
> > just a bipolar transistor with a small fet connecting collector to
> > base (integrated gate bypolar transistor), its got low gate
> > capacitance and lots of voltage capability but otherwise acts like a
> > fet except that the minimum on voltage is around .9 volts. Turns out
> > for power fets thats pretty typical anyway."
> >
> > End quote\
>
> That makes sense, Mike. If the IGBT fails, this should limit damage to
> only those parts on the secondary side of the transformer and optos.
>
> The designer has to decide how far he wants to go. Suppose a design
> needs 10 IGBTs in parallel. He could use a single power transformer and
> pair of optos to drive all 10. Or, he could have 10 transformer
> secondaries, and 10 sets of optos, one per IGBT. Both work exactly the
> same when everything is good. But if an IGBT fails, the first circuit
> kills *all* IGBTs. The second circuit kills only one IGBT. One costs
> more initially -- the other costs more if it needs to be fixed.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
V6 engine from a fiero with no intake / accessories / fluids on / in it
weighs 257 lbs. Exaust system (muffler, cat, pipes, headers) weighs 47.75
lbs.
For the heavy stuff (> 40 lbs) I use a bathroom scale with a chunk of wood
on it (to protect it). for the lighter stuff I have a 50 lb postage scale I
picked up from staples. (tracking to the nearest 1/4 lb)
Fluids I am just going with 8 pounds per gallon.
So far I have 7.25 lbs of just dirt and rust that has fallen off the car in
the process of dismantling it.
If you want I can send my spreadsheet on. I don't have much entered in it
yet still just in dissassembly mode.
Later,
Wire
From: Nikki Bloomfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Suitable weights...
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:29:46 +0100
So I'm finally sorting out the calculations needed for my car's
conversion, but it's just struck me: I know what the car's stock weight is
but I don't have a clue how much the ICE components weigh! What's worse is
that while i've taken them out I don't have any way to weigh them.
Since the weight of the car's electric components obviously will affect
the final forces needed (but the choice of the components will be made
working out how much force is required to accelerate the car...) what do I
do?
So far, my calculations (I've only got as far as working out required
acceleration forces) are using the car's stock weight. Of course, until I
have decided what the batteries, controller and motor will be I can't give
a weight to the car from which I can then work out the required forces. It
all seems a little "chicken and the egg". Help!
Do people normally work on the values with their ICE stock car weight to
give a rough idea, or do I need to add a few extra hundred pounds?
Sorry I'm being thick. I've just realised that my Physics exam (way back
in 1998) seems a loooong time ago!
Still, I've finally figured out the required forces in both Newtons and lb
force for the stock car!
Regards
Nikki
P.S. I know there are calculators out there which do it all for you, but
I'm the sort of gal who HATES to just be given a figure. I like to know
exactly HOW that figure is calculated!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Perhaps you can direct me to or advise how to charge 144 VDC off 115
VAC-15Amps.
I have a Zivan that runs 220 VAC at 19 Amps input for home charging.
At work I will soon lose access to 220 VAC, possibly getting it back, but
not sure how long without it.
So, at work I can still get 115 VAC at 15 Amps-20.
Since I have 144 VDC Trojan batteries nominal, and I can monitor the car's
charge to shutoff manually or with timer, what boost transformer and
rectifier specifications would I look for to give at least 7 to 10 Amps DC
charge during the work day?
Would you highly recommend or basically require filter capacitors before
the transformer (industrial chemical plant, so power variations are
probable)
Last, do you think this simple system will push $500 parts cost, and just
purchase finished unit?
These are the parts I do have:
I have approx 20 filter caps from the last owner of my EV who built a hobby
charger, that ran off 220 VAC and charged the car directly off live power
after 2 rectifiers. (I removed that charger and never used it.)
and I have an auto transformer rated for 20 Amps input that has taps 0, 14,
23.5, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125 connected to bridge rectifier.
Would a combination of these parts plus a boost transformer do the job?
I do have two Electrical engineer friends nearby who can guide me to not
damage myself or my batteries when I go live, but they both aren't sure
what to design.
Thanks so much, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, for a little over $300 you could buy two of these 72V chargers.
http://www.batteryservice.com/products_final.aspx?ModelNumber=SE-1072.
It would not be the quickest charge, but would just about use up all of your
120V 15 amps.
BTW - they are nothing much more then the parts that you already have put in
a box. They contain a multitap transformer, a multiple select switch, a
rectifier and a 30 amp fuse. Still, they offer a lot of versatility and a
good charger for the money.
damon
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: home made charger
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:01:55 -0400
Perhaps you can direct me to or advise how to charge 144 VDC off 115
VAC-15Amps.
I have a Zivan that runs 220 VAC at 19 Amps input for home charging.
At work I will soon lose access to 220 VAC, possibly getting it back, but
not sure how long without it.
So, at work I can still get 115 VAC at 15 Amps-20.
Since I have 144 VDC Trojan batteries nominal, and I can monitor the car's
charge to shutoff manually or with timer, what boost transformer and
rectifier specifications would I look for to give at least 7 to 10 Amps DC
charge during the work day?
Would you highly recommend or basically require filter capacitors before
the transformer (industrial chemical plant, so power variations are
probable)
Last, do you think this simple system will push $500 parts cost, and just
purchase finished unit?
These are the parts I do have:
I have approx 20 filter caps from the last owner of my EV who built a hobby
charger, that ran off 220 VAC and charged the car directly off live power
after 2 rectifiers. (I removed that charger and never used it.)
and I have an auto transformer rated for 20 Amps input that has taps 0, 14,
23.5, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125 connected to bridge rectifier.
Would a combination of these parts plus a boost transformer do the job?
I do have two Electrical engineer friends nearby who can guide me to not
damage myself or my batteries when I go live, but they both aren't sure
what to design.
Thanks so much, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check with [EMAIL PROTECTED] He used to make electric vehicles for Hollywood
and has lots of used parts.
Patrick
>From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Scrounging for cheap EV parts
>Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 07:46:20 -0500
>What sites have those here used to find used electric
>motors, controllers, and the like?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/index.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have a spare temp sensor for the
SAFT STM NiCds?
Apparently the Saft P/N is 280071.
Thanks,
Nick
Dr Nick Carter,
Owner, npc Imaging, 2228 Magowan Drive, Santa Rosa, CA 95405 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.npcimaging.com Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
President, North Bay Electric Auto Association
Solectria EV owner. "Spare the air every day - drive electric!"
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Best bang for the buck today for truck type conversions are 6V lead
acid. The 8V are good if you are space and weight constrained (like my
old civic), but for trucks, put in the most pounds of lead possible.
Lynn
See my GM factory built 100% Electric S10 Pickup at:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/722
-----Original Message-----
From: Death to All Spammers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 10:15 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Can someone give me the bottom line on batteries?
> I am a newbie. I need 20 6v's for my electric truck which is 120V.
What I want to know is, can I switch to 15 8V batteries instead and save
some weight? I want to buy good batteries. Basically the best bang for
the buck. I know there's a lot of battery talk on here but I'm having
trouble, as a newcomer, getting to the bottom line.
>
> Rocky
>
It'll work fine, but you'll have 75% of the previous range. The 8V have
thinner plates, so lifespan may not be equal.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, I get 30 miles
range in all my vehicles I've had. People who claim much more than that
are usually smoking "Lefty Lucky's". Over the years I've had a Commuta-Car,
Electro-Metro
Geo Tracker, Bombardier and now a Cushman all using flooded golf
cart batteries. Best range is achieved at the 40% battery weight ratio and
better range can be had of course with Ni-Cads, NiMh's or Li-Ion's if you
have deep pockets.
Best Regards,
Mark
Date:
Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:23:31 -0500
From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: City Range (Was Conversion on eBay) Plain Text Attachment [ Scan
and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
At 15MPH you can get a long way :) But seriously, how much range are people
getting for city driving from their EVs? I always hear the highway range
quoted. What are people getting in the city? -Mike On 6/8/06,
Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Claims to have a range of up to
150 Miles with 20 Trojans 125s. Now - I > don't know if that would even be
possible in theory (other then rolling > down hill), but the buyer sure will
be in for quite a suprise :( On the > other hand: He is asking 23,000 with
'Reserve Not Met' - I doubt he/she > will be able to sell the truck for that
price anyway. > > Michaela > > > > > Is the seller on the list? > > > >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4647644891 > >
> > A little rich for me, but I certainly like the paint scheme on that > >
expansion > > box for battery space - a little galaxy sitting in the bed!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your autotransformer with the rectifier will probably produce an appropriate
charge voltage on the 120 or 125 setting, without more. The key is that DC
voltage rectified from an AC line peaks at 40% higher than the nominal AC
voltage. My suggestion would be to connect the autotransformer/rectifier to an
elecrolytic capacitor, then to a light bulb (or two in series). Plug it into
your 115 volt source and check the resulting DC voltage. If it's around 170 to
175 on either your 120 or 125 setting you're in business. Chances are one of
theose taps will work. (The capacitor will let you see the peak voltage, and
the light bulbs are there to bleed off the charge of the cap when you shut it
off.) You can put together a decent, if crude, charger by combining what
you've got with a GFCI (for safety) and a fuse (ditto), an amp meter (analog is
fine), some switches and a timer for less than $100. The amount of current you
draw will depend on how low your batts are when you
start to charge. If they're low, you may want to start on the a lower tap -
say 115 or 120, if that reads out at 165 - 170 volts on the cap/lightbulb test,
in order to keep your amp draw low enough, and then come out an hour or two
later to bump it up a notch to the setting that gets you 170-175 VDC. Your
ammeter will tell you which setting to use. If they're not drawn down too much
you may want to start higher to get the amps in. Either way, use the timer to
shut it off after a few hours.
If you read up on "bad boy" chargers by searching this list you'll find out a
lot. A crude charger isn't that hard to build. By having that autotransformer
you're ahead of the game.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perhaps you can direct me to or advise how to charge 144 VDC off 115
VAC-15Amps.
I have a Zivan that runs 220 VAC at 19 Amps input for home charging.
At work I will soon lose access to 220 VAC, possibly getting it back, but
not sure how long without it.
So, at work I can still get 115 VAC at 15 Amps-20.
Since I have 144 VDC Trojan batteries nominal, and I can monitor the car's
charge to shutoff manually or with timer, what boost transformer and
rectifier specifications would I look for to give at least 7 to 10 Amps DC
charge during the work day?
Would you highly recommend or basically require filter capacitors before
the transformer (industrial chemical plant, so power variations are
probable)
Last, do you think this simple system will push $500 parts cost, and just
purchase finished unit?
These are the parts I do have:
I have approx 20 filter caps from the last owner of my EV who built a hobby
charger, that ran off 220 VAC and charged the car directly off live power
after 2 rectifiers. (I removed that charger and never used it.)
and I have an auto transformer rated for 20 Amps input that has taps 0, 14,
23.5, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125 connected to bridge rectifier.
Would a combination of these parts plus a boost transformer do the job?
I do have two Electrical engineer friends nearby who can guide me to not
damage myself or my batteries when I go live, but they both aren't sure
what to design.
Thanks so much, Ben
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--- Begin Message ---
Great engine weights table:
<http://www.team.net/sol/tech/engine.html>
LT1 Chevy V8, 650 lbs
2.7 L Porsche 911 motor, 450 lbs
Gasoline is about 6 lbs per gallon (~0.75 kg / liter)
Plus don't forget weight for removing the radiator, exhaust, and gas
tank.
--- Nikki Bloomfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So I'm finally sorting out the calculations needed for my car's
> conversion, but it's just struck me: I know what the car's stock
> weight is but I don't have a clue how much the ICE components
> weigh!
> What's worse is that while i've taken them out I don't have any way
>
> to weigh them.
>
> Since the weight of the car's electric components obviously will
> affect the final forces needed (but the choice of the components
> will
> be made working out how much force is required to accelerate the
> car...) what do I do?
>
> So far, my calculations (I've only got as far as working out
> required
> acceleration forces) are using the car's stock weight. Of course,
> until I have decided what the batteries, controller and motor will
> be
> I can't give a weight to the car from which I can then work out the
>
> required forces. It all seems a little "chicken and the egg". Help!
>
>
> Do people normally work on the values with their ICE stock car
> weight
> to give a rough idea, or do I need to add a few extra hundred
> pounds?
>
> Sorry I'm being thick. I've just realised that my Physics exam (way
>
> back in 1998) seems a loooong time ago!
>
> Still, I've finally figured out the required forces in both Newtons
>
> and lb force for the stock car!
>
> Regards
>
> Nikki
>
> P.S. I know there are calculators out there which do it all for
> you,
> but I'm the sort of gal who HATES to just be given a figure. I like
>
> to know exactly HOW that figure is calculated!
>
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
This brings up a question. One of the issues I've been thinking about
with my fiero conversion is saftey systems. I am planning to put in
racing harnesses, but the Fiero never got air bags. Has anyone
retrofitted newer stearing wheels with airbags, along with the
required sensors, into an older car?
-Mike
On 6/8/06, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have been studying automotive safety systems as I am trying to design
a car and car company from the ground up.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Digikey shows 1200+ available in a T-18 case. 1N5342BMSCT-ND
<http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=212763&Row=41219&Site=US>
Danny
Christopher Zach wrote:
Minor problem: Mouser and Digikey and Jameco are currently out of
stock on 6.8 volt, 5w zeners. Anyone know of another local source to
the SF/Pacifica area? We need about 100 of them.
I guess everyone is buying these things :-)
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7 Jun 2006 at 16:10, Patrick Clarke wrote:
> What's up with the digests?
I would speculate (note that I am NOT an SJSU SA) that digest creation and
distribution is a low priority task on the server. Perhaps the assumption
is that if you subscribe to the digest you're not especially concerned with
timely delivery.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 8 Jun 2006 at 16:45, bruce parmenter wrote:
> When the weather starts getting hotter
> or colder, that will be another story, and I will be chasing the
> pack temperatures again to get the correct finishing voltage.
I take it that none of your many chargers has temperature compensation.
An ordinary Lestronic charger effectively provides TC because of its dv/dt
alogorithm. Why not look around until youi find one (or two, if needed for
the size of your pack)? Lots of folks (at least used to) want to get rid of
these boat-anchors, so they should be fairly cheap. You'd probably want to
use them as offboard chargers since they're quite heavy.
If nothing else you might be able to buy 3 or 4 36 volt Lestronic chargers
as used golf car surplus. You might have to add or subtract batteries so
you'd have a multiple of 6 in the pack, though.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 8 Jun 2006 at 15:18, Steve Powers wrote:
> The question becomes, is anyone working on getting the speed up.
Very challenging, because as I understand it, all the plug-in Prius schemes
depend on fooling the control computers rather than attempting to reprogram
them and change the way they operate the vehicle.
This brings up something that I've been thinking about for a while. The
idea of a plugin Prius is a fine one. I don't want to come off as negative
on it (I'm not) and I definitely don't want to discourage the work being
done in that direction. However, I have some real concerns about the amount
of effort and resources being directed to these projects, and the possible
outcome.
The Prius is such a complex closed proprietary system that IMO the very
ability to make it externally chargeable and extend the EV range hangs by
the finest of threads. It's only practical because Toyota included the code
in the computers to allow European and Japanese owners to >request< EV mode.
You should also understand that the EV button fitted to the non-NA cars is
not intended to make the car operate as an EV. It's there so the driver can
tell the computer, "I'm planning to go only a few hundred feet at most and
then shut the car down, so don't bother wasting fuel warming up the engine."
Toyota removed the EV button from the instrument panel of the US cars. A
few different reasons have been suggested for this decision and I don't want
to speculate on these as it would just be a distraction from the main point
of my post. In any case, for reasons also unknown, Toyota left the enabling
code in the US model's computers. To fit an EV button to a US Prius
requires only making only a few minor connections. It's an easy project and
there's at least one kit which makes it nearly foolproof, even for those
with no electronics background.
That was pretty nice of Toyota, don't you think? They surely have different
firmware for the US, European, and Japanese models. They didn't really
>have< to leave that code in the US cars' ECU.
My point is, if Toyota should decide to remove this code from future US
Prius firmware updates, this capability could disappear. It would be VERY
difficult if not impossible to restore. If Toyota should entirely remove
the EV button as a feature from >all< 2007 or 2008 or 2009 Prius models,
including European and Japanese models, it's likely that even refusing to
let the dealer update the vehicle's computer wouldn't help.
Why would they do that? It could be for the most innocent of reasons.
Perhaps they had a firmware update that made the US Prius more reliable, or
improved efficiency running in normal mode, and they needed just a little
more memory space in the ECU to achieve it.
Or ...
Allow me to engage in a little bit of paranoid speculation. Take it for
what it's worth; you are welcome to dismiss it if you like. I'm not even
sure I buy it myself. <g> But here goes :
In the 1990s, GM and Honda allegedly made a handshake deal. GM was losing
money on the Geo Metro range and was interested in cutting costs. The
rumour is that supposedly GM agreed to drop the Metro XFi (53/58 mpg) if
Honda would stop selling the Civic VX model (47/56 mpg). The Metro XFi was
discontinued in 1995, and the Civic VX vanished in 1996. True story? I
have no idea. I don't even recall where I heard or read it. As I say, take
it for what it's worth.
Now, I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut, but there's already an
established business relationship between Toyota and GM. Suppose GM wanted
that Prius plug-in ability to go away ...
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Rich,
We know how hard you work and appreciate it.
But hold your horses on this one.
First, they did not say they already had a kit.
Second they claim 150 MPG which has no relation to 150 mi range.
You can get 150MPG in the first mile with the existing
battery in the Prius in EV mode.
All they do is add more battery to make it go a few miles
longer in EV mode and EVen boost it when the gas engine
comes on. This also requires some additional electronics.
The range is not so critical as with a full EV because
when you run out of juice, the car is still moving, so
you can ompimize it for your average distance per day,
which is around 30 miles for most of us.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rich Rudman
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 12:21 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Electric Auto Association mentioned in July's Popular
Mechanics
Keep in mind this is a wish folks...
They don't have a Kit available.. and this kit most likely would not include
batteries.
Really cheap kits... are still to be thought out.
My hardware cost is going cost me over the $5000 mark.
This is like trying to hit a moving target.
And keep in mind that the current cost for Lithium... just the batteries is
over a Buck a watt hour.
The BMS for Lion support is going to add about $20 cents a watt hour...
The cost per Watt hour for quality PbLa AGMS is about 33 cents a watt hour.
The current cost with cheap PbLa AGM batteries is about 20 cents a watt hour
for just the batteries.
Given that a Prius in EV mode ,under 35 mph may attain 200 watt hours per
mile.. and 150 miles would need 30Kw of stored power...
A Lion pack to get 150 miles would cost over $30,000 or more than the cost
of the Prius in the first place. This is without a BMS to support it, A
interlock unit and a charger, and the CAN buss controller and cables and
time to document what needs to be done.
I am getting irritated that folks are Spewing cost of Kits around like over
Deflated Seattle Housing prices.
What one wishes to sell a Kit for and what it actually gets delivered for
are going to be two totally different things..
It's also not clear what features most folks really need and want.
I am trying to kit parts up for as cheap as I dare and still keep the lights
on.
Without a really sharp pencil.. I can only set Not to exceed costs.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 9:20 PM
Subject: Electric Auto Association mentioned in July's Popular Mechanics
> The Electric Auto Association is mentioned in the July issue of
> Popular Mechanics.
>
> On page 26 of the article "150-mpg Lithium-Ion Hybrids"
>
> The last sentence of the article says, "The nonprofit group
> CalCars.org is working with the Electric Auto Association to develop
> a do-it-yourself kit for under $5000."
>
> That's pretty cool!
>
> Chip Gribben
> Electric Auto Association of Washington DC
> http://www.evadc.org
>
--- End Message ---
