EV Digest 5650
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: BMS poll
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: BMS poll
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Exploding Liion cells
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: AC output to rectifier
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: BMS poll
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: BMS poll
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: BMS poll
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: BMS poll
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: BMS poll
by "steve ollerton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: costco - no outlet
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: BMS poll
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: BMS poll
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Escape Hybrid Nav display was Old Timers may remember
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: AC output to rectifier
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: BMS poll
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: BMS poll
by "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: BMS poll
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" radio blurb tomorrow (Friday) morning on
CBC Radio One at 8:36am Central.
by "Jay Caplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Exploding Liion cells
by "David Sharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Measuring High Voltage
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) re:BMS poll
by Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: AC output to rectifier
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: BMS poll
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Battery Watering
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: conversion business
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Battery Charger Testing
by "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: BMS poll
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Trying to understand shunt regs
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: AC output to rectifier
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Trying to understand shunt regs
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
I have 50 zener regs on my Prizm. I know of two other people who have
them as well. Also have them on my shed batteries.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I assume that BMS stands for "Battery Management System" - apologies from us
newbies, but I have always been of the mind that acronyms are the enemy of
understanding.....
From: Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: BMS poll
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:51:54 -0400
So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
I have 50 zener regs on my Prizm. I know of two other people who have them
as well. Also have them on my shed batteries.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550
"Dell laptop explodes at Japanese conference"
"AN INQUIRER READER attending a conference in Japan was sat just feet away from
a laptop computer that suddenly exploded into flames, in what could have been a
deadly accident."
Makes the Valance batteries look more appealing, glad this was not my car :)
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ben,
You can increase you voltage on your autotransformer by adding more primary
windings by connecting the primary windings in series with another transformer.
My existing charger, I had before I now have the PFC-50, was a autotransformer
using two dry type 15 kva transformers connected in series to get above 300
volts with a input of 120 vac or 240 vac.
Get a transformer with a duel voltage input, two windings of 120 vac that can
be series for a 240 volt input. This will have four leads in the primary.
The primary wires are label as:
No. 1 to No. 2 is one 120 volt circuit.
No. 3 to No. 4 is one 120 volt circuit.
Connecting Leads 2 and 3, now allows to put 240 volts across 1 and 4.
Or you can connect 120 volts to Leads No. 1 and No. 2 which is connected to
lead No. 3. You then should get 240 volts output between Lead no. 1 and No. 4.
Connect Leads No. 1 and 4 to a full wave bridge. Change two of the diodes of
the bridge where Line 1 and Line 4 is connected to SCR diodes.
To trigger these diodes, I came off the two secondary 120 volts windings of the
transformer. Keep these two secondary windings separate from one another.
Build a voltage divider by connecting the 120 volt secondary winding that is on
the same side as the primary winding for Lead no. 1. This secondary winding
Lead No. T1 is in series with a diode, a 150 ohm rheostat, a 50 ohm resistor ,
a 100 ohm resistor and than connect to Line No. 1 of the transformer primary.
The other lead of this secondary winding T2 is connected to a 1 to 2 amp fuse
and to the same Line No. 1 of the transformer primary.
The values I used were all power heat sinking resistors of 25 watts and the
Rheostat had a rating of 100 watts.
The SCR gate circuit is tap off between the 50 ohm and 100 ohm resistor.
The values of the resistance and wattage may change, depending on the maximum
gate voltage of the SCR.
You then build a second trigger circuit coming off the other 120 volt secondary
leads T2 and T4 and connecting them also to the primary Lead no. 4.
The two rheostat can be gang together or keep separate.
You then can come off the bridge to a voltage and ampere indications (using a
amp shunt), a DC fuse or circuit breaker and to a optional 1.0 Henry reactor
coil. The reactor coil may not be needed if you use the SCRS. If no SCRS,
the reactor coil will slow the DC surge into the batteries.
You can build a 1.0 Henry reactor coil, by turning about 500 feet of No. 8
square magnet wire around a stack of 14 or 16 gage steel plates that form a bar
about 1 inch square and about 6 to 8 inches long. This is get very large, so
its best to build the SCR battery charger.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:40 PM
Subject: AC output to rectifier
My electronics teacher (from years ago) explained to me that if I plug the
high voltage bridge rectifier into the AC outlet, I will get 1.41 x 120 (AC
input Volts) 1% of the time (when the voltage is at the top of the peak -
or something like that).
As a result, I would be able to charge my 156 VDC battery pack (albeit
extremely slowly) with a direct connect to rectifier up to 169 Volts
(opportunity only charge).
Is the (TIMES 1.41) logic appropriate?
Or Any other thoughts on the best way to get 169-172 VDC out of a 120 VAC
outlet.
Is it simply the rectifier with GFI protection.
Or what specs of a transformer for this application 12, 24, 36 Volt boost?
I primarily use 220 VAC zivan at home.
I have an auto transformer that would also permit me to Tap in at 105 and
out at 110, increasing the ratio (as well as other taps up to 125). but
this seems shorted as it is drawing 70 Amps loaded or not loaded. with
ohmeter on the 6 taps of the autotransformer 1,13.5, 24, 105, 110,
115,120,125, should they read as shorted by the ohmeter, open, or with
resistance?
Thanks, Ben
or anyone have one of those Solectria battery chargers for sale that are
156 VDC output only?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have Hart Z-regs on my 13 AGM batteries.
Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It's easy enough to find out from the
list admin how many people are on
this list. So I thought a poll is appropriate to see how many have
something attached to each battery that is active in managing the
battery pack. One charger per battery counts. Having a fancy charger
alone does not count.
So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have none, after 5 years, 30 of my T-145's are still in with 0.02 volts of
each other with over 20 in the 0.01 volt range. I am going for over 10 years
to break my old record.
If any one batteries get more than 0.04 volts from each other, than about every
six months, I will charge that one with a smart charger for about 1 minute.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Phillips<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 4:14 PM
Subject: BMS poll
It's easy enough to find out from the list admin how many people are on
this list. So I thought a poll is appropriate to see how many have
something attached to each battery that is active in managing the
battery pack. One charger per battery counts. Having a fancy charger
alone does not count.
So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com<http://www.rotordesign.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have PowerCheq Equalizers on my EV, but I currently have them
disconnected for testing purposes. The Civic previously had Mk 1
Rudman Regs. When I convert to flooded batteries I will be removing
the PowerCheqs. For charging I am running a Zivan NG5 and a home-brew
"Fair Radio" based 120 VAC charger.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have 15 PowerCheqs, 1 between each of my Deka 9A31's and stradling two
batteries each.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:15 pm
Subject: BMS poll
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> It's easy enough to find out from the list admin how many people
> are on
> this list. So I thought a poll is appropriate to see how many have
> something attached to each battery that is active in managing the
> battery pack. One charger per battery counts. Having a fancy charger
> alone does not count.
>
> So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Here's to the crazy ones.
> The misfits.
> The rebels.
> The troublemakers.
> The round pegs in the square holes.
> The ones who see things differently
> The ones that change the world!!
>
> www.RotorDesign.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a Beckhoff computer monitoring EVery cell.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:14 PM
Subject: BMS poll
It's easy enough to find out from the list admin how many people are on
this list. So I thought a poll is appropriate to see how many have
something attached to each battery that is active in managing the
battery pack. One charger per battery counts. Having a fancy charger
alone does not count.
So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's a California thing only. Check out:
www.evchargernews.com
I am lucky, they had them at Costco's here in Phoenix and Tucson, all but one
have removed their chargers and it happens to be the one closest to me. Far as
I know I'm the only one who uses them, but I've been trying to use them as much
as possible. Also a lot of them just have paddle chargers, but in California
the EAA has been working with costco to put paddle, avcon and 5-20 outlets at
most locations to accomodate everyone. If there's enough EV owners in your area
you guys might talk to Costco and see if they'd let you install an outlet.
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On my TS cells, I have Victor's shunt regulators.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 3:14 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: BMS poll
It's easy enough to find out from the list admin how many people are on
this list. So I thought a poll is appropriate to see how many have
something attached to each battery that is active in managing the
battery pack. One charger per battery counts. Having a fancy charger
alone does not count.
So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:14:26 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
>It's easy enough to find out from the list admin how many people are on
>this list. So I thought a poll is appropriate to see how many have
>something attached to each battery that is active in managing the
>battery pack. One charger per battery counts. Having a fancy charger
>alone does not count.
>
>So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>Here's to the crazy ones.
>The misfits.
>The rebels.
>The troublemakers.
>The round pegs in the square holes.
>The ones who see things differently
>The ones that change the world!!
>
>www.RotorDesign.com
>
BMS. I have an individual charger on each battery.
Matt Milliron
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe I can help Rich, What are you looking for? where I work we are a Ford,
GM, Chrysler warranty repair station (Gov Fleet) and have full access to
tech support and publications. We have one Ford Escape in the fleet and a
half dozen GM hybrids along with a bunch of Hondas and Prius's, over 90% of
our fleet of 600+ vehicles is alternative fuel vehicles, Biodiesel, CNG,
Hybrid, electric vehicles, and hydrogen.
Richard Furniss
is it suppose to smoke like that ?
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Madman
got 2 EVs and
a 2007 Escape Hybrid.
Can anybody find the Nav display for it??
The Nav Cd/radio has a special EV power flow button and screen. Nobody can
find one installed.
I want one.. In my 2007 Green 2 wheel drive.
Any Ford power train guys still on this list??
I need Ford Corprate help. The Guys on the Sales end are kinda clue less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I needed 400 volts for testing boards. But it can put out enough
current to charge slowly and is infinitely adjustable.
I bought a fairly beefy 28vac transformer. I placed a variac between
the transformers *secondaries* and the wall outlet. On the remaining
output wires of the transformer, I placed rectifiers etc. So the
transformer is connected backwards. When I turn the variac up slowly I
get 400vdc output at about 66% on the variac scale, but only pulling
.380 amps from the wall. The current from the wall will become quite
high if the variac is turned up too far. Use a current meter for
checking output. Use a fuse too.
This will easily get you what you need and have the current as well.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> My electronics teacher (from years ago) explained to me that if I
plug the
> high voltage bridge rectifier into the AC outlet, I will get 1.41 x
120 (AC
> input Volts) 1% of the time (when the voltage is at the top of the
peak -
> or something like that).
> As a result, I would be able to charge my 156 VDC battery pack (albeit
> extremely slowly) with a direct connect to rectifier up to 169 Volts
> (opportunity only charge).
>
>
> Is the (TIMES 1.41) logic appropriate?
>
> Or Any other thoughts on the best way to get 169-172 VDC out of a
120 VAC
> outlet.
> Is it simply the rectifier with GFI protection.
> Or what specs of a transformer for this application 12, 24, 36 Volt
boost?
>
> I primarily use 220 VAC zivan at home.
>
>
> I have an auto transformer that would also permit me to Tap in at
105 and
> out at 110, increasing the ratio (as well as other taps up to 125). but
> this seems shorted as it is drawing 70 Amps loaded or not loaded. with
> ohmeter on the 6 taps of the autotransformer 1,13.5, 24, 105, 110,
> 115,120,125, should they read as shorted by the ohmeter, open, or with
> resistance?
>
> Thanks, Ben
>
>
> or anyone have one of those Solectria battery chargers for sale that are
> 156 VDC output only?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Monitoring is not management, although dang useful. Is there a bypass
or regulation/clamping going on each battery?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve ollerton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have a Beckhoff computer monitoring EVery cell.
>
> Steve
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:14 PM
> Subject: BMS poll
>
>
> > It's easy enough to find out from the list admin how many people
are on
> > this list. So I thought a poll is appropriate to see how many have
> > something attached to each battery that is active in managing the
> > battery pack. One charger per battery counts. Having a fancy charger
> > alone does not count.
> >
> > So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > Here's to the crazy ones.
> > The misfits.
> > The rebels.
> > The troublemakers.
> > The round pegs in the square holes.
> > The ones who see things differently
> > The ones that change the world!!
> >
> > www.RotorDesign.com
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use individual 12 volt chargers on each of the batteries
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 5:14 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: BMS poll
It's easy enough to find out from the list admin how many people are on
this list. So I thought a poll is appropriate to see how many have
something attached to each battery that is active in managing the
battery pack. One charger per battery counts. Having a fancy charger
alone does not count.
So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wish, but they don't qualify for a "BMS" in true meaning
of the term :-(
Speaking of that, the best is the enemy of the good - I DON'T have
any BMS in my vehicle, though in the lab it is running as well as
one done professionally for one of my customers. Priority
is to get EVision (e-meter replacement) out. The BMS will
follow for masses hopefully by the end of this year.
I know, promises promises...
Victor
Bill Dennis wrote:
On my TS cells, I have Victor's shunt regulators.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 3:14 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: BMS poll
It's easy enough to find out from the list admin how many people are on
this list. So I thought a poll is appropriate to see how many have
something attached to each battery that is active in managing the
battery pack. One charger per battery counts. Having a fancy charger
alone does not count.
So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Right, except the average car life span is 11 yrs, so the calculation would
be 27%, which is less than the fuel usage per year according to Spinella.
This calculation may not include reuse of old parts and scrap metal from
junkers, which would reduce the initial energy balance even more. Not sure
if Spinella included that recycling.
http://www.meretec.com/meretec.asp?ID=40
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:17 PM
Subject: RE: "Who Killed the Electric Car" radio blurb tomorrow (Friday)
morning on CBC Radio One at 8:36am Central.
> I've never taken a statistics course, so someone more knowledgeable
correct
> me if I'm off-base here, but Montis' counter-claim seems a bit out of
whack.
> According to Montis:
>
> 1) 30% of the energy in the US is used by vehicles
> 2) Art Spinella says that it takes 10x energy to build vs. to run a
vehicle
> 3) Therefore it would take 300% of US energy each year to build our
vehicles
>
> Wouldn't that be true only if 100% of the vehicles on the road were built
> new every year? I don't know what the average life of a vehicle is, but
> let's say 8 years just for argument's sake. That would mean that each
year,
> about 1/8 of the vehicles in the US are built. If Art Spinella is correct
> (which I doubt), then wouldn't the real yearly energy for building
vehicles
> be:
>
> 30% * 10 * .125 = 37.5%
>
> instead of 300%?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mike Ellis
> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:05 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" radio blurb tomorrow (Friday)
> morning on CBC Radio One at 8:36am Central.
>
> Rebroadcast available within a day at
> http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/logs2006.html .
>
> 25 minutes of interviews.
>
> Interviews with Chris Paine, GM public relations guy, Art Spinella,
> Montis Walker-something.
>
> Chris summarizes the history of the EV1.
>
> GM denies they wanted to kill the project. Blaims not enough interest.
>
> Art Spinella claims the total energy cost of a hybrid is higher than a
> Hummer.
>
> Montis Walker-somthing says using Art's figures, if true, would mean
> that America's car industry would use three times the total energy
> output of the States.
>
> Comments (could be played on air): (416) 205-7878
>
> -Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a red hue in the fire suggestive of Li ions.
D
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Austin
Sent: Saturday, 15 July 2006 9:41 AM
To: EVList
Subject: Exploding Liion cells
>From http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550
"Dell laptop explodes at Japanese conference"
"AN INQUIRER READER attending a conference in Japan was sat just feet away
from
a laptop computer that suddenly exploded into flames, in what could have
been a
deadly accident."
Makes the Valance batteries look more appealing, glad this was not my car :)
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
I used a single-LED double-detector opto isolator (HCPL-300) to provide
linearizing feedback. Used two opamps and the opto. I thought of using a
V-F converter as well but the linear opto seemed, intuitively, to have a
higher bandwidth (no I didn't measure it :-) )
Price point seems to be similar.
The frequency reading could be a pretty nice way to combine the
isolation and A/D though.
--
Martin K
Lee Hart wrote:
Michaela Merz wrote:
I am doing a little project involving a basic stamp. I am looking for a
simple and safe way to measure pack voltage and feed data to the basic
stamp. The E-meter uses a pre-scaler, is there any other way to do it?
Stan Witherspoon and I are working on exactly this problem for my rev.B
Battery Balancer. Originally, I used a digital multimeter with isolated
RS-232 port, but these cost about $60.
Rev.B uses a voltage-to-frequency converter IC, National LM331 (or maybe
Analog Devices AD537 or AD7741 if it works better). These chips convert
voltage into frequency. The BASIC Stamp "Count" instruction measures
frequency, so there's your A/D conversion.
The frequency output from the V-F converter chip goes thru an
optocoupler for isolation. The V-F chip is powered by a little DC/DC
converter (just a flyback winding on the inductor of a National "Simple
Switcher" chip).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I presently have none but investigating their use.
Jimmy
> > Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:14:26 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: BMS poll
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> It's easy enough to find out from the list admin how many people are on
> this list. So I thought a poll is appropriate to see how many have
> something attached to each battery that is active in managing the
> battery pack. One charger per battery counts. Having a fancy charger
> alone does not count.
>
> So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
>
> Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The VAC*1.414 is correct.
Rectifying will get you about 170v, but this is barely enough to charge
your 156v pack at all as it will only supply you with 13v per battery.
To boost the 120v up, you could hook up a step-down transformer to your
120v line and put the secondary of this step-down in series with the
120v line. If you put a 8v secondary in series with the 120v to give you
128v AC, you could get 181 volts out which would give you a more
reasonable voltage at close to 13.8v.
The charging current will be quite low unless you add capacitors after
the bridge rectifier or boost the supply voltage higher than what I
mentioned. This is why people usually use a variac (auto-transformer)
like you mentioned - it is easily adjustable.
--
Martin K
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My electronics teacher (from years ago) explained to me that if I plug the
high voltage bridge rectifier into the AC outlet, I will get 1.41 x 120 (AC
input Volts) 1% of the time (when the voltage is at the top of the peak -
or something like that).
As a result, I would be able to charge my 156 VDC battery pack (albeit
extremely slowly) with a direct connect to rectifier up to 169 Volts
(opportunity only charge).
Is the (TIMES 1.41) logic appropriate?
Or Any other thoughts on the best way to get 169-172 VDC out of a 120 VAC
outlet.
Is it simply the rectifier with GFI protection.
Or what specs of a transformer for this application 12, 24, 36 Volt boost?
I primarily use 220 VAC zivan at home.
I have an auto transformer that would also permit me to Tap in at 105 and
out at 110, increasing the ratio (as well as other taps up to 125). but
this seems shorted as it is drawing 70 Amps loaded or not loaded. with
ohmeter on the 6 taps of the autotransformer 1,13.5, 24, 105, 110,
115,120,125, should they read as shorted by the ohmeter, open, or with
resistance?
Thanks, Ben
or anyone have one of those Solectria battery chargers for sale that are
156 VDC output only?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cushman (9) 8 volt batteries no BMS
Great White (4) 12 volt Hawker AGM's no BMS 1700 miles so far.
Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It's easy enough to find out from the list admin how many people are on
this list. So I thought a poll is appropriate to see how many have
something attached to each battery that is active in managing the
battery pack. One charger per battery counts. Having a fancy charger
alone does not count.
So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI All,
I have driven my EV for 4 months now pretty much everyday.
Something like 1500 Km.
I have not watered the batteries once in this time. Don't need too. The
water level seems to have remained unchanged.
Is that right?
I got three Arlec transformer based chargers. End voltage of those things is
14.4 volts per battery and the current is around 1 amp.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It might be good to develop the taperlock that will bolt to a generic
flywheel but then also make an adapter that will slide over a transmission
input shaft and bolt to the taperlock adapter in case someone later decides
to go clutchless.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Reverend Gadget
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:45 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: conversion business
We gave that a lot of thought. we may find some
generic pressure plate to use, but for most
conversions it is just simpler all around to use the
stock one or an aftermarket upgrade. This works as a
sort of "pressure relief" for the stock drive train.
It keeps the average conversion from tearing itself
apart. But if someone wants a racing setup I can drill
the flywheel for that too. They just do so at their
own risk.
Gadget
--- Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> We are also making aluminum flywheels with the 1 1/8
> hub built in. All we have to do is drill it for your
> pressure plate.
>
I had a Taperlock fitted to my flywheel and then I had
my flywheel
machined to reduce weight. The
only other problem with my car (Porsche 944) is that
the pressure plate
is a monster, don't know
how it could be lightened. Your idea sounds pretty
good. If you're
going to the trouble of making
flywheel/adapter combo, how about replacing the whole
mechanism.
Replace the pressure plate and
clutch disc too. Or are you better off leaving that up
to the
individual?
Dave Cover
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been using ACI Supercharger 1214CC for charging my EV lead acid
batteries
.
I have had several go bad over the past few months. I have another
that that I think is bad.
How do you test a 12 volt charger that only had a red and green light.
I can put a voltage meter to a battery and get a reference. How do I
test the output of a charger for both volts and amps?
Any ideas?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
> I thought a poll is appropriate to see how many have
> something attached to each battery that is active in
> managing the battery pack. One charger per battery
> counts. Having a fancy charger alone does not count.
>
> So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
I think the use of the term "BMS" in the context of this rather focused
poll is misleading at best.
You are not asking about a BMS, you are specifically polling to see how
many people are doing *something* to their batteries individually during
charge.
I would suggest that a *BMS* refers to a system that looks after the
batteries on both charge *and* discharge, not just on charge, and does
*not* have to specifically involve some sort of bypass regulation.
In this context, examples of systems that might be considered BMS's
include the Zivan Smoother and Lee Hart Balancer, and perhaps the
Powercheqs. Examples of systems that would not count as BMS's include
Lee's Zener regs, Rudman regs, or the use of individual chargers.
I think that unless the question is rephrased, the results of this poll
would most accurately be interpreted as revealing how many on the list
treat individual batteries differently during charge, or perhaps more
generously, how many are using some sort of *charge* management system
that treats individual batteries differently (as opposed to smart
chargers that may be just as effective (or more), but do not treat
individual batteries differently).
While the results of the poll may be interesting, I think they are not
particularly meaningful without having people also indicate if they are
running lead-acid packs or not, and if their lead-acid packs are VRLA
(gel or AGM) or not. It is fairly well recognised that flooded lead
acid batteries are fairly tolerant of abuse and can deliver rated life
without any BMS simply by not abusing them overly on charge or discharge
and providing regular maintenance. I would suggest that the vast
majority of those on this list are using flooded lead acid, and so a
poll whose results indicated that only 5% of the list considers
individual batteries while charging doesn't paint an accurate picture if
75% of the list are using batteries which don't actually benefit
significantly from such treatment.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
> Part of the ideal charging algorithm for lead-acid is to
> apply a fixed current and once the voltage rises to a
> certain voltage then the voltage should be reduced to a
> float voltage, not maintained at the voltage produced
> by the bulk charge current.
This is a very interesting statement ;^>
Where might one find this "ideal" PbA algorithm documented? Is it
"ideal" for all PbA, or just flooded, or just VRLA or just AGM or just
gel types?
You see, I do charge algorithm development as part of my day job, and it
would greatly simplify my life if there really were an ideal PbA
algorithm I could hand to each customer and battery manufacturer I work
with. Unfortunately, I don't recall *any* of the battery manufacturers
I have worked has ever recommending an IU algorithm of this sort.
In fact, one of the points that most of the battery manufacturers have
been in agreement on is that they do *not* want their batteries float
charged. Universally the preference is to fully charge the batteries
and then turn the charger off and restart to top the batteries up
periodically as required.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ooh! Ooh! Me! Me! Call on me, teacher! I know the answer!
(Sorry - newby getting excited because he actually has some real-life
experience regarding the question.) I've built two bad boys for my 156 volt
pack - the second one is actually a "dim boy", which I'll describe below.
Your teacher's theory is right, but the reality is just different enough to
cause problems. A "plug-to-cord-to-rectifier-to-battery pack" charger is
called a "bad boy." I decided to build a bad boy because financially I had to
pick between a PFC-20 and a Zilla and I knew I couldn't build a controller.
John Wayland had waxed poetic about his use of a bad boy to charge a 144 volt
pack, calculating a 169 volt output from his rectifier which gives a nice 14.1
volt per battery output, which just happens to be enough to put a decent amount
of amps into a depleted pack, but low enough not to cook a pack if left on
float for a while. So I decided to do the same. But Lee Hart warned that you
don't always get a solid 120 volts out of your wall socket - you may get less.
If so, your bad boy's voltage drops by 1.4X the voltage drop. Plus, you lose a
couple of volts in the rectifier. He was right. Bottom line: I don't think
most people get 168-170 volts out of a rectified AC
line - I know I didn't. Probably more like around 164. And that's not enough
to do much for a 144 volt pack, let alone a 156 volt pack.
But adding a simple 12 volt transformer will do the trick. The schematic for
doing that is here: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/ You can leave out
the dimmer for a simple, fixed voltage basic bad boy - you will want a 12 volt
transformer. That should get you about 178 - 180 volts, which is a decent
float charge for your pack. (The 169 - 170 you reference would be essentially
useless for a 156 volt pack.) Since you're probably not going to see more than
about 4-5 amps out of this setup at the very highest draw you don't need a
really big transformer. If you're desperate you can get a transformer at
Radio Shack, but an old 12 volt battery charger probably has one inside if you
find one. Try EBay, flea markets, whatever.
If you want to get just a little more involved, get a somewhat bigger
transformer, (between 16 and 28 volts or so) and use a regular old 600 watt
light dimmer switch on the primary side to adjust your voltage. (The location
for the dimmer switch in the evalbum schematic is correct.) It is important
that you get an ammeter at this point, because you will need to "tune" your
charger by the amount of amps being drawn by your pack. Shop around; you
should be able to find an ammeter for less than $15. You will also probably
want a fan to cool your rectifier (which you have mounted on a piece of metal
as a heatsink) and your transformer. (And yes, a GFCI and fuse or circuit
breaker. And a box to put all the parts in. But these are all common hardware
store items costing only a few dollars.) This will enably you to pump more
juice into your pack (by cranking up the voltage, and therefore amps) or,
after a little trial and error, to set it at a fairly safe 13.5 - 14 volt
setting for a longer period.
A bad boy has a lot of drawbacks. Because you're just skimming the top of the
voltage curve, and the power factor is horrible, you're putting a lot more
stress on your components than the amperage delivered would ordinarily take.
All of my components are rated for 20 amps, and I use a 20 amp outlet, but I
have a 15 amp circuit breaker in my charger. The most current I set my dim boy
at is around 7 or 8 amps. At that amp draw I get about a 75% power factor,
and my Watt-a-meter says I'm pulling over 14 amps out of the socket. At float
the power factor drops into the 40's. It's also possible to screw up and harm
your batteries if you have the ability to set it for high enough voltage. But
it's hard to beat the bang for the buck if you just want a backup or
opportunity charger you can throw in your EV just in case. I figure you can
make a pretty slick one for under a hundred bucks.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My electronics teacher (from years ago) explained to
me that if I plug the
high voltage bridge rectifier into the AC outlet, I will get 1.41 x 120 (AC
input Volts) 1% of the time (when the voltage is at the top of the peak -
or something like that).
As a result, I would be able to charge my 156 VDC battery pack (albeit
extremely slowly) with a direct connect to rectifier up to 169 Volts
(opportunity only charge).
Is the (TIMES 1.41) logic appropriate?
Or Any other thoughts on the best way to get 169-172 VDC out of a 120 VAC
outlet.
Is it simply the rectifier with GFI protection.
Or what specs of a transformer for this application 12, 24, 36 Volt boost?
I primarily use 220 VAC zivan at home.
I have an auto transformer that would also permit me to Tap in at 105 and
out at 110, increasing the ratio (as well as other taps up to 125). but
this seems shorted as it is drawing 70 Amps loaded or not loaded. with
ohmeter on the 6 taps of the autotransformer 1,13.5, 24, 105, 110,
115,120,125, should they read as shorted by the ohmeter, open, or with
resistance?
Thanks, Ben
or anyone have one of those Solectria battery chargers for sale that are
156 VDC output only?
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The prescribed 3-step charging method is
1. a constant current until a voltage set point is reached,
2. a fixed voltage for either a fixed time period and/or until current
drops below a set point
3. a lower current/voltage float
That's typical for 6v-24v at least, all types. However strings with
more cells and/or unusual construction may have different
recommendations. For one, there are greater cell imbalance issues. The
presence of shunt regs will fix a lot of that, but these will themselves
need to be taken into consideration. For example, if you have a very
powerful charger, it would be advisable to lower the current once one of
the shunts turn on or it could blow it right there.
The float stage is likely unnecessary, since the vehicle will not be
sitting for long periods. With this long of a string and without a BMS,
I would suspect more emphasis should be placed on making a current which
will finish the charge off in the more deeply discharged cells but not
so much that it is overcharging the more full cells at too high a rate.
With a BMS, it would be wise to focus on detecting when all the shunt
regs have turned on indicating all batteries have reached the top voltage.
Danny
Roger Stockton wrote:
This is a very interesting statement ;^>
Where might one find this "ideal" PbA algorithm documented? Is it
"ideal" for all PbA, or just flooded, or just VRLA or just AGM or just
gel types?
You see, I do charge algorithm development as part of my day job, and it
would greatly simplify my life if there really were an ideal PbA
algorithm I could hand to each customer and battery manufacturer I work
with. Unfortunately, I don't recall *any* of the battery manufacturers
I have worked has ever recommending an IU algorithm of this sort.
In fact, one of the points that most of the battery manufacturers have
been in agreement on is that they do *not* want their batteries float
charged. Universally the preference is to fully charge the batteries
and then turn the charger off and restart to top the batteries up
periodically as required.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
