EV Digest 5787
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Material science 101
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Put a Plug in It
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: A123 battery fire (was: Lion fires)
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: kids EV
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Ok, so I NEED a DC-DC converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: I don't need a dc-dc converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: New EV board !!!!!
by "David J. Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV List Moderation (was : A123 pack configuration in KillaCycle)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Question regarding controllers and potboxes.
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: I don't need a dc-dc converter
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: CurrentEliminator
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Another motor find
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: I don't need a dc-dc converter
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Painting battery boxes
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Battery oil
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Real EVs on the road
by "England Nathan-r25543" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Real EVs on the road
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Painting battery boxes
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Real EVs on the road
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV List Moderation (was : A123 pack configuration in KillaCycle)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Swiftech pumps
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Question regarding controllers and potboxes.
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Generator Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) range rockers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
That is true but not the main reason.
I thought that Chris' experience was clear enough
to convince that nickel plating was a good idea?
IIRC he said: copper and aluminum disappears quickly
in the vicinity of the flooded NiCads (ask me how
I know).
So, unless you want your interconnects to magically
increase gauge until your car does not drive anymore
(within months, not years) then I think you should
follow the advice to protect the weak links and
nickel-plate them.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dmitri Hurik
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:56 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Material science 101
Because a thin layer doesn't really add any resistance.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:20 AM
Subject: Material science 101
> I'm told it's important to have nickel plating over copper interconects
> for these flooded nicads I'm getting to prevent corrosion. So if copper
> is a 100 on the relative conductivity scale and nickel is a 5, then why
> should the great conducting copper be plated with the crummy conducting
> nickel??
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Aluminum 59
> Brass 28
> Cadmium 19
> Chromium 55
> Cobalt 16.3
> Constantin 3.24
> Copper:
> Hard drawn 89.5
> Annealed 100
> Gold 65
> Iron:
> Pure 17.7
> Cast 2-12
> Wrought 11.4
> Lead 7
> Manganin 3.7
> Mercury 1.66
> Molybdenum 33.2
> Nichrome 1.45
> Nickel 12-16
> Nickel silver 5.3(18%)
> Phosphor bronze 36
> Platinum 15
> Silver 106
> Steel 3-15
> Tin 13
> Titanium 5
> Tungsten 28.9
> Zinc 28.2
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NEW IN GRIST
Put a Plug in It
Umbra on electric cars
Fans of the electric car make much of its promise. Nice silent ride! Easy
to charge! And most important, no nasty emissions! But a reader wonders
whether those nasty emissions might just be coming from a different place:
the power plants that charge these radical rides. Is it six of one, half a
polluting dozen of another? Advice maven Umbra Fisk plugs in to a modern-day
dilemma.
[ email | discuss | + digg | + del.icio.us ]
new in Ask Umbra:
http://www.grist.org/advice/ask/2006/08/23/e-cars/index.html?source=daily
sign up: Receive word by email when new Ask Umbra columns hit the scene
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* This post contains a forbidden message format *
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--- Begin Message ---
The electrolyte is an organic solvent. There is a thimble
full in each cell. If you short a cell, it can overheat and vent the
solvent. If there is an ignition source present (like the red-hot
shorted interconnect) you can get a flame. Once the solvent is gone,
or you starve the fire for oxygen, the flame goes out. You won't get
much flame in a closed battery box, for example, because you will
quickly use up the oxygen.
This is distinctly different to what other types of Li-Ion
cells do. In those type cells fire is internal. These traditional
style of Li-Ion cell behave just like a road flare or a roman candle.
You can't put them out. They require no air to continue burning. The
whole pack is going to burn and there is nothing you can do but watch
(perhaps roast a marshmallow.)
Quite a big difference.
Bill Dube'
At 02:07 PM 8/23/2006, you wrote:
That guy Craig Uyeda claims that one of his 100 A123 li-ion cells caught on
fire. Does anyone know the circumstances of that and how it happened?
I didn't think it was possible for A123 li-ions to catch fire because of
their lithium-iron-phosphate chemistry being very distinct and much safer
than the common lithium-cobalt-oxide chemistry used in the industry-standard
18650 laptop cells, in particular with no "oxide" to be liberated in the
case of LiFeP. Valence and A123, both of which use lithium-iron-phosphate
chemistries, claim that something like that (a fire) is not supposed to be
able to happen with their batteries.
Very curious and wondering how that happened with the A123 cell.
Charles Whalen
On Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:00 AM, Mark Fisher wrote:
This thread
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=31&t=4325&s=71612a004543b13cb5673077c0e2711a
has some discussion of the effects of lithium fires. Craig Ucheda is a
particularly extreme EV scooter enthusiast. Apparently the Fire Marshall
isn't so thrilled by his hobby...
Of course, gasoline burns pretty well too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdCsbZf1_Ng&NR
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Staffanson Brian J Civ 309 EMXG/QPE wrote:
> If I wanted to build a kids-sized car (think 3-5 year old), what
> size of motor would I need?
One that draws about 250 watt is good (12v at 20a, 24v at 10a, etc.)
That's what we use for our BEST kid's EVs (see www.bestoutreach.com)
> I ask because we had to buy a new electric weed eater...
> The electric motor works fine. Would I be able to run this on a
> certain amount of DC volt, and have it able to run around a 100
> to 150 lb vehicle including kid?
You probably could. As others have pointed out, it is almost certainly a
PM DC motor with a rectifier, not an AC motor.
However, it is a 120v motor. It probably draws only a couple amps
(measure it, or check the nameplate). To get the above-mentioned 250w
into such a motor, you'd have to run it with a 120v or thereabouts pack.
That's not cheap!
And of course, you would have to insulate it very well, so the kids
couldn't possibly touch any of the wiring. Possible, but not easy.
As others said, a "Powerwheels" vehicle is by far the simplest first EV.
They are virtually free with a bad battery. Just buy any inexpensive 12v
10ah or so battery, and splice it in place of the special overpriced
Powerwheels battery.
If you buy one new, THROW THE CHARGER AWAY! It is total junk. It never
shuts off and will blindly charge the battery past 17v and destroy it.
My son's Powerwheels is 5 years old and still runs fine on its original
battery, because we have always used a decent electric wheelchair
charger instead of the stock one.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard Acuti wrote:
> After reading all this and dealing with the ComutaVan's weak
> headlights, I'm sold on it.
My ComutaVan came with the stock setup; a 12v 80ah accessory battery
with no DC/DC. The lights were indeed weak. There was about a 2v drop
between the battery and the headlight from all the crappy wiring.
I added headlight relays for the high and low beams. The stock wiring
powered the coils. A heavy wire straight from the battery, thru a fuse,
the relay contact, and to the headlight had less than 0.1v drop. This
brought the headlight back up to normal brightness (though they still
dimmed as the battery ran down).
Years later, after the 12v battery wore out, I installed two Vicor
36v-to-12v DC/DC converters. Their inputs went to each of the 36v
half-packs. Their outputs were wired in parallel thru a commoning diodes
(a dual 40amp Schottky). The DC/DC outputs were trimmed up to 13.5v,
which is as high as a 12v module would go.
If you're not using the old series/parallel contactor controller, then a
single 72v-to-14v DC/DC could be used.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Staffanson Brian J Civ 309 EMXG/QPE wrote:
> Are you saying that your battery balancer continually monitors all
> of the batteries, and the DC/DC will add to that one, even when
> traveling?
Correct. It works while charging (when AC power is available), and when
parked or driving (using the pack itself to charge the lowest battery).
It stops when the batteries are balanced (all voltages the same).
> Would you explain a little more?
It's documented at http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/
> So is the IOTA-55 charger/DC-DC isolated or not?
It is isolated. There is no current path from input to output. An
ohmmeter would read infinite resistance (an open circuit) between any
input wire and any output wire.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wonderful this will greatly help reduce the flood of e-mail. Thank you!
David J. Hrivnak
www.hrivnak.com
Personal Account WWJD?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ROBERT GOUDREAU
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:09 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: New EV board !!!!!
Please,come and chat with us about your passion for EVs.
http://electricperformance.com/forum/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-
Mike Ellis wrote: AFAIK, I _never_ get my own post back.
Hi Mike,
by default, the SJSU listserv membership assumes you do not want
your own POST. You can change that: check the list of listserv
commands that came with your membership and be sure to send your
listserv command to the server email address (not the POSTing email
address).
-
-
MIKE WILLMON wrote: This happens often to me. If my post doesn't
show up the next day I usually send it again. After the 2nd one
shows up, the 1st one usually follows shortly.
-
Hi Mike,
You are not alone. My POST yesterday did not show up until today.
If I do make a second POST, I make minor changes to it so the
listserv does not reject my second POST as a duplicate. And yup,
the first one shows up shortly after the 2nd one (?!?).
On this note ...
-
RE: New EV board !!!!!
Don wrote:
Robert, there already too many forums for EVs. [...] This list is
very popular and although this list uses older [server] technology,
it works. [...] I do not see the benefit of yet another forum.
FWIW There have been numerous attempts to move this list [...].
-
IMHO: I for the most part agree with Don's POST. Too many Internet
areas to discuss the same topic will tend to dilute the efforts of
the public to get answers to their EV questions.
Of the groups I manage, after polling and gathering member opinions
on groups with low activity, I have actually closed down a few
groups to reduce this topic dilution, and keep their discussions
focused in fewer areas.
Then again, one size does not fit all, and some groups are
specialized in what they do, discuss, or have a different focus.
Because of this there may be a need to have a different kind of
discussion area on the same topic or a group with a different focus
or agenda.
i.e.: I know of three active Highlander hybrid groups: one has
members with very techie discussions/POSTs but they sometimes are
obnoxious to or intolerant of newbie questions; another is
unfocused with OT discussions of other hybrid models/brands; and
the last is less active but quite happy to be focused only on their
own group's netiquette or interests.
Having said that, it might be more helpful to newbies seeking EV
answers if the EVDL faq was the starting point for EV inquiries.
For those that wanted specific EV discussions, hopefully the EVDL
faq would tell them where to go to find those as well.
A web search, is a web search, is a web search. Few if any
'electric car (or vehicle) web searches bring up the EVDL faq which
has the procedure of how to join the EVDL and get EV answers.
Usually the web surfer gets some ancient Crest EVDL archives, a
current EVDL archive in digest mode (hard for newbies to use), or
something other than the EVDL. This can be confusing and
frustrating to a newbie who just wants to get answers to their EV
questions.
As Don has said, in the past their have been many attempts to move
or (POSTs about moving the EVDL away from the SJSU listserv. It did
not happen because the SJSU listserv is still functioning (and
free), and many listrs just stick with what works. If the SJSU
listserv ever goes away, then another method would have to be found
to continue the EV discussions.
I am not a member of the EVDL management, but when I was as its
sysop many moons ago, I routinely kept a fresh run copy of all EVDL
member's addresses encase a move to another list, group, or forum
had to happen (hint, hint, ... ).
Lets hope that is never needed, and the EVDL is forever an EV
resource for all.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The recent discussion of potboxes vs HEPI, etc, led me to a simple question:
Is the potbox input a 4-20ma current loop, or something similar, or do
the controllers actually measure the ohms to determine throttle? I know
the distinction is a bit contrived.
I'm wondering if a standard 4-20ma current transmitter could be used in
conjunction with a HE potentiometer.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would add the option I've suggested.
2.5 A separate 16-24v battery for accessories. DC/DC regulates to 14v.
Charge acc battery when charging propulsion pack
- no load on propulsion pack
- requires a big battery, but can be advanced chemistry
- lights don't dim, etc.
- simple and cheap, maybe, DC/DC can be simpler non-isolated unit.
I'm thinking a simple PWM on a mosfet with output cap would work
as 14v regulator.
Lee Hart wrote:
I've done many EVs, and used several different methods to get 12v
accessory power. There are *many* subtle factors involved, which is why
there is no "perfect" solution, and so many different systems are in
use.
1. A separate 12v battery for accessories. No DC/DC. Charge this 12v
battery when parked, at the same time as the propulsion pack.
- simple
- cheap
- no load on propulsion pack
- requires a big 12v battery (~40 lbs, 30ah at 1-hour rate)
- lights dim, motors slow as 12v battery runs down
2. A big 12v accessory battery, plus a small DC/DC converter powered
by the propulsion pack.
- cost of small DC/DC is offset by eliminating separate 12v charger
- lights don't dim, motors don't slow for normal driving; but *do*
in worst-case conditions (rainy night, heater, radio, etc. all on)
- propulsion pack lightly loaded; slight range reduction
- if DC/DC is left on while parked, sitting idle a long time runs
down the propulsion pack
3. Small 12v accessory battery, plus a big DC/DC converter powered
by the propulsion pack.
- costs more (DC/DC cost more than savings on smaller 12v battery)
- lights never dim, motors never slow
- propulsion pack lighty loaded; slight range reduction
- must leave DC/DC on while parked; 12v battery too small to
handle parasitic accessory loads for long
- small 12v battery tends to die early (from float voltage)
4. Big DC/DC, no accessory battery, large (>1 farad) capacitor.
- costs more than #3, but eliminates battery and its replacements
- smallest and lightest
- otherwise, same as #3
5. My battery balancer; a 12v accessory battery, and a single DC/DC
powered by the propulsion pack that is switched to whichever
battery needs charging the most.
- expensive
- extends range by transferring charge from highest to lowest
battery, thus eliminating the "weakest link"
- 12v sags a little, but DC/DC periodically brings it back up
(performance is in between no DC/DC, and full-time DC/DC)
There are lots of side issues. Do you leave the DC/DC on when parked, or
shut it off? Do you hold the 12v battery at 13.5v for long life, or 14v
for normal 12v accessory operation? Do long idle periods run down the
propulsion pack, or just the 12v accessory battery?
The 12v system in normal cars is pretty bad. The voltage regulation is
poor (varies from 10v-14.5v), so lights and motors *normally* vary
noticeably during operation -- most people don't even notice.
Automotive wiring has 1v to 2v drops between the battery and actual
loads. They depend on the alternator to provide 14v so you get 12v at
the headlight. With just the 12v battery (no DC/DC), you only get 10v at
the headlight -- no wonder it's dim! There's considerable room for
improvement just by replacing the stock wiring with heavier, lower-drop
components.
Automotive loads are also extremely wasteful of 12v power. The motors
are only 50-60% efficient. The clock draws 100 times more than a home
battery clock. The radio draws amps instead of milliamps. There are
dozens of light bulbs which could be replaced by LEDs. Reducing power
isn't significant as far as range is concerned, but it reduces the size,
weight, and cost of your 12v system.
You certainly could use something other than a lead-acid battery for
your 12v power. It would cost more, but be lighter and smaller, and
might last longer. Choose it for a slightly higher voltage, to make up
for the 1v-2v drop. Nicads are attractive, because they don't vary much
under load and tolerate being run dead.
You could also use a non-isolated DC/DC, to convert your varying
accessory battery voltage to a regulated 14v (or whatever). Such
converters are smaller, lighter, more efficient, and cheaper than
isolated converters, because they only have to handle the power
*difference*, not the total power. For example a 14v 30a isolated
converter handles 14v x 30a = 420 watts. A 12v-to-14v 30a non-isolated
converter handles (14v-12v) x 30a = 60 watts; 1/7th the power means
about 1/7th the size, weight, and cost.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 8/23/06 1:10:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: CurrentEliminator
Date: 8/23/06 1:10:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jack Murray)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Indeed very impressive performance by Dennis Berube and his Current
Eliminator, not just going fast for an electric, but winning bracket
races with it.
Are only electric cars going to be running at the NEDRA late night
nationals this weekend?
Jack >>
Thanks for the comments Jack.Its too bad that other EVs up there in the
Northwest and around the country do not take advantage of racing the ice
cars(test
lane is NOT racing).NHRA and Summit racing offer great programs in all classes
to as slow as 21 seconds in the qt.mile.Nedra worked hard to get their rules
adopted by NHRA and I seem to be the only one taking advantage of them(even
though I am no longer a nedra member).There are thousands of dollars to be won
in bracket racing every weekend around the country.Bracket racers are 97% of
the drag racers in the country.Bracket racing puts rich and poor, slow and
fast,evs and ices together fair and square.If there are any EVs in arizona that
would like to learn bracket racing I would be more than willing to help.
Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A BIGGER DC MOTOR BY RAYMOND Item number: 220019783201
I was going to buy this one, but I won't pay more than $100 for a used 36 V
lift motor, so here you have it. Happy bidding. I promise not to bid against
you.
Steve
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 22, 2006, at 9:36 PM, Jack Murray wrote:
The fact remains that if you use the traction pack for accessories it
is reducing your range. Now if you have more range than you need,
then using the traction pack for accessories is not a big deal and
would weigh less than adding an accessory pack. But from what I see,
range is always an issue, and an "easy" way to extend it is to
essentially add more batteries by having an accessory pack, and using
NiMH effectively lowers the weight of the additional battery capacity
(over lead) it could even be a lithium pack as well, since it is
independent of the traction system.
Sure, you can extend your range by adding another battery. I think that
has been well established.
You can use it to power your 12v system for a gain of perhaps 1 mile
per hour of night time operation (headlights and heater fan.) You will
need a fairly large 12v battery to handle this duty somewhat
effectively (I would suspect at least a 40 lb. Optima.) I'm only seeing
a minimal range gain and the need for another charging system.
You can add one more battery to the vehicle's traction pack and likely
get more out of it. Then you put in a DC>DC converter and have a worry
free (and no separate charger) 12v system. If you want (or need) a
backup battery it can be a lot smaller (and lighter.)
Perhaps you are running an odd voltage or want to stuff a DC>DC where
it will be exposed to the weather. But if not, the Iota AC>DC
converters (that happen to work on DC) look like the "new Todd" for
EVers (the Todd used to be one of the most common converters used,
before they first changed the design so it wouldn't work on DC and then
went out of business.)
I drive an EV with a Todd and no 12v battery! (weight savings :-)
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am putting battery boxes made of 1/16 sheet metal in
an 86 Suzuki Samurai. Is there any paint that would
protect them from the inevitable sulfuric acid?
storm connors
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone mentioned the Edison Batteries using battery
oil to keep air out of the battery and to cut down on
passing electrolyte out of the battery.
This seemed pretty logical to me. For that matter,
batteries that last 40 years or more seem pretty
logical too.
It was mentioned that the Edison batteries were
inefficient. Replacing the battery pack every 3 years
is pretty inefficient.
Anyway, I found a modern offering of battery oil.
http://www.thermoilbatteries.com/index.htm
Has anyone any experience with this stuff? Is it any
more than high priced mineral oil?
Storm Connors
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would like to hear what folks are truly running on the road and off
the road. This is not a discussion about why one setup might be better
than another just the results of what is actually in use.
I would also like to know what the drag racers are running but due to
competition they may not want to post anything, I understand this. Any
info is appreciated.
If possible I would like to know vehicle specs:
Type of vehicle?
Power train:
What type of batteries?
What controller?
What voltage?
Motor?
Range:
How many miles?
Average speed?
Top speed for how long?
Worst range (maybe due to speed or hills)
Your best range and how you accomplished this
How did you measure you range and speed?
Include the terrain you drive on.
Recharge:
How long do you charge?
What charger do you use?
Do you use regs?
Other Specs:
Vehicle weight?
How often used?
How many miles per week or month or year do you drive roughly?
Best life you got on a pack of batteries and what were they?
Drag slip times?
Feel free to add additional information on what is in use.
If this information has already been done please point me to the archive
or website.
Thank you,
Nate
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All of this is posted at the EVAlbum.com.
Enjoy!
--- England Nathan-r25543 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I would like to hear what folks are truly running on
> the road and off
> the road. This is not a discussion about why one
> setup might be better
> than another just the results of what is actually in
> use.
> I would also like to know what the drag racers are
> running but due to
> competition they may not want to post anything, I
> understand this. Any
> info is appreciated.
>
> If possible I would like to know vehicle specs:
>
> Type of vehicle?
>
> Power train:
> What type of batteries?
> What controller?
> What voltage?
> Motor?
>
> Range:
> How many miles?
> Average speed?
> Top speed for how long?
> Worst range (maybe due to speed or hills)
> Your best range and how you accomplished this
> How did you measure you range and speed?
> Include the terrain you drive on.
>
> Recharge:
> How long do you charge?
> What charger do you use?
> Do you use regs?
>
> Other Specs:
> Vehicle weight?
> How often used?
> How many miles per week or month or year do you
> drive roughly?
> Best life you got on a pack of batteries and what
> were they?
> Drag slip times?
>
>
> Feel free to add additional information on what is
> in use.
> If this information has already been done please
> point me to the archive
> or website.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Nate
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm using this stuff called Pro Flex, made by Geocell. It's a clear rubberized
roofing product. It
has the consistency of honey, you just paint it on. I do have to test it's
chemical resistance
before I go crazy with it. Got it at the Ace Hardware store. For some steel
framework I've built
I'm also using some spray on automotive undercoating I got at the local auto
parts store.
Dave Cover
--- Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am putting battery boxes made of 1/16 sheet metal in
> an 86 Suzuki Samurai. Is there any paint that would
> protect them from the inevitable sulfuric acid?
> storm connors
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out evalbum.com all the specs you want in a database.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of England Nathan-r25543
Sent: August 23, 2006 3:41 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Real EVs on the road
I would like to hear what folks are truly running on the road and off the
road. This is not a discussion about why one setup might be better than
another just the results of what is actually in use.
I would also like to know what the drag racers are running but due to
competition they may not want to post anything, I understand this. Any info
is appreciated.
If possible I would like to know vehicle specs:
Type of vehicle?
Power train:
What type of batteries?
What controller?
What voltage?
Motor?
Range:
How many miles?
Average speed?
Top speed for how long?
Worst range (maybe due to speed or hills) Your best range and how you
accomplished this How did you measure you range and speed?
Include the terrain you drive on.
Recharge:
How long do you charge?
What charger do you use?
Do you use regs?
Other Specs:
Vehicle weight?
How often used?
How many miles per week or month or year do you drive roughly?
Best life you got on a pack of batteries and what were they?
Drag slip times?
Feel free to add additional information on what is in use.
If this information has already been done please point me to the archive or
website.
Thank you,
Nate
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BTW : If you see the little warning block stateing that the "message was
truncated" and you are in digest mode, Although it refers only to the
offending email, Some email clients don't display anything after it or
some arbitrary chunk after it. I had to view source to see the rest once
or twice. This has either gone away or I changed something in my setup
and for me it is a non-issue, but you may want to "view source"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually I decided to try the danger-den mag 2 pump, it is between the
two swiftechs in stated performance.
http://www.crazypc.com/products/93340.html
but I am worried about the spec sheets on this site
2amps at 12V is 24W not 8W, probably a cut-n-paste error
I will be going down to the UPS depot to pick it up tonight since the
driver in my area has missed 2 arranged deliveries.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:55 PM 23/08/06 -0700, Eric wrote:
The recent discussion of potboxes vs HEPI, etc, led me to a simple question:
Is the potbox input a 4-20ma current loop, or something similar, or do the
controllers actually measure the ohms to determine throttle? I know the
distinction is a bit contrived.
I'm wondering if a standard 4-20ma current transmitter could be used in
conjunction with a HE potentiometer.
G'day Eric, and all
A potentiometer is a 3-wire variable resistor, where usually a fixed
voltage is applied across the ends of it and a variable voltage is taken
off the wiper. This allows the output voltage to range fully across the
supply voltage.
A rheostat is a two-wire variable resistor where the voltage is applied
across a resistor network tha includes the variable component in one side,
and a fixed component on the other. This limits the range that the output
can go across, typically from one side of the supply to 50%.
A 4..20mA signal needs to be taken across a resistor to generate a voltage,
in an automotive environment the available voltage is inconveniently low
for normal 4..20mA application, plus the derived voltage is typically 1 to
5V or 2 to 10V. Curtis controllers designed for this application have no
problem with this, and are used in industrial application all the time with
4..20mA. However on-road EV controllers are not usually designed around
this offset zero, so that is an issue to consider before attempting to use
a 4..20mA signal.
Hall effect throttles that I've used on mobility scooters and similar
application are often 0.2V to 5V or some other similar range (I don't look
that closely as they are usually a manufacturers' part).
Hope this helps
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Very true. CA has its own regs on small engines... and other states may
follow, since Senator Bond was unsuccessful in adding his "pollution is
good" rider in 2004. EPA has finally gotten clear of the Senator Bond, and
will now be setting new small engine specs. It does help to run small
engines on alternate fuels, such as bottled gas, or so I'm told. It's hard
to believe some of the figures "out there." (Some environmental groups have
the engines as "dirty" as running my 60's VW bug, I'd guess. <g>)
http://www.planetsave.com/ps_mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6862&Itemid=33
is a pretty good article.
>From the EPA: "Without new pollution controls, engines under 50 horsepower
would account for 18 percent of smog-forming emissions from mobile sources
by 2020, the agency has estimated."
But they'll probably never come close to being as clean as the big ICE's...
unless we are willing to pay a *lot* more for our small engines. Apparently,
cleaning up the engines will only add about $40 to their cost, in volume,
from another article.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Generator Trailer
> Engine driven gensets will vary in emissions. Anything you can buy at
your
> local Home Depot will be a gross polluter. (Yes, I realize that people's
> concern for their personal vehicles' emissions varies. I suppose too that
> some states/regions are more aggressive that others about emissions laws.)
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
some folks were asking for a list of the
more efficient cars at austinev, so
here you have all cars with over 7 km/kWh:
Rick and Bryan Woodbury's Tango
223.4 Wh/mile
7.2 km/kWh
14.5 KWh battery capacity
104.0 km range
1181.8 kg
batteries: 22 Optima Yellow Tops
motor: Two Advanced DC FB-4001 9"
controller: DCP T-Rex
top speed: Est. 122 mph within 1/4 mile at 8000 rpm
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\211.html
Doug Canfield's Consolair
221.1 Wh/mile
7.2 km/kWh
9.4 KWh battery capacity
68.0 km range
1818.2 kg
batteries: twenty-nine Hawkers 12 Volt 27Ah (dead)
motor: 50kW AC vector controlled;
controller: Hughes Dolphin;
top speed: 72 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\698.html
Thundersky Leitian EV-3
220.8 Wh/mile
7.2 km/kWh
33.1 KWh battery capacity
240.0 km range
1180.0 kg
batteries: 46xTS-LCP9393A
motor: 15kW cont 30kW max
controller:
top speed: 110km/h
site:www.thundersky.com
Union County Career Center's Future Shock
220.0 Wh/mile
7.3 km/kWh
8.6 KWh battery capacity
62.4 km range
1113.6 kg
batteries: thirteen Optima model thirty-four yellow top
motor: 9 inch DC
controller: 1200 amp Raptor
top speed: About 100 mph or more
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\263.html
Steve Clunn's '80 Porsche 924 Turbo
220.0 Wh/mile
7.3 km/kWh
13.2 KWh battery capacity
96.0 km range
1727.3 kg
batteries: twenty 12 Volt group 31 flooded deep cycle lead-acid
motor: 11" Kostov
controller:DCP T-Rex 336 Volt 600 Amp
top speed: 75 + mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\388.html
Steve and Susan Evans' '76 CitiCar
216.0 Wh/mile
7.4 km/kWh
10.8 KWh battery capacity
80.0 km range
590.9 kg
batteries: 8 Trojan T-105 Flooded Lead-Acid 6 volt batteries,
motor: 6 hp General Electric DC Series Wound;
controller: series/parallel contactors with resistor
top speed: 38 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\158.html
Marc Geller's 2000 Ford Th!nk City
215.1 Wh/mile
7.4 km/kWh
11.4 KWh battery capacity
84.8 km range
960.0 kg
batteries: NiCad pack (550 lb/250kg, liquid-colled, 100ah,
motor: Liquid-cooled 3-phase AC induction, 27kW max
controller: AC inverter
top speed: 56 mph (90 km/h) governed max (faster downhill in neutral)
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\469.html
Bill Dube's '85 VW Wabbit
213.3 Wh/mile
7.5 km/kWh
9.6 KWh battery capacity
72.0 km range
1295.5 kg
batteries: 16 Optima Yellow Tops (8 front, 6 under rear
motor: Advanced DC; XP-1227
controller: Auburn PWC1200-192
top speed: 100 + mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\014.html
Jay Lopes' 83 Ford Escorrt GT
211.2 Wh/mile
7.6 km/kWh
10.6 KWh battery capacity
80.0 km range
1272.7 kg
batteries: sixteen Optima Yellow Tops in 2 parallel banks
motor: Advanced DC FB-4001
controller: Curtis 1221B
top speed: I have not taken it over 55 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\099.html
John Benson's Porsche 914
200.0 Wh/mile
8.0 km/kWh
12.0 KWh battery capacity
96.0 km range
1227.3 kg
batteries: Twenty Saft STM-100 Ni-Cad
motor: Advanced DC FB-4001
controller: Curtis 1221C
top speed: 85 + mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\042.html
Matt Peterson's '99 Lectra
195.0 Wh/mile
8.2 km/kWh
3.1 KWh battery capacity
25.6 km range
145.5 kg
batteries: 4 Optima D750S "Yellow Top" 12 volt batteries
motor: EMB VR24
controller: EMB Proprietary
top speed: 51 theoretical, 48 is my top speed so far
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\116.html
Blaine Wills' 1993 Kewet EL-JET3
185.60 Wh/mile
8.62 km/kWh
13.9 KWh battery capacity
120 km range
727.3 kg
batteries: twelve Trojan T-875s; 8 Volt Deep Cycle
motor: Advanced DC; 203-4002
controller: Curtis 1221 500 Amp
top speed: 70+ mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\483.html
Victor Tikhonov's '91 CRX
184.80 Wh/mile
8.66 km/kWh
18.5 KWh battery capacity
160 km range
1536.4 kg
batteries: 28 D950U Optimas for now, Zebra Z5C in future
motor: AC induction, Siemens 1PV4133WS20, liquid cooled
controller: Siemens Simovert 6SV 100kW inverter, liquid cooled
top speed: Speedometer pegs, my guess 135 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\194.html
John Bryan's '71 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
176.00 Wh/mile
9.09 km/kWh
10.6 KWh battery capac
ity
96 km range 1136.4 kg
batteries: 16 Optima Yellow Top AGM batteries
motor: Advanced DC XP-1227A
controller: Auburn PWC600-192 "Grizzly";
top speed: not legally determinable
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\034.html
Citroen Berlingo Electrique (OEM Electric)
170.67 Wh/mile
9.38 km/kWh
32.0 KWh battery capacity
300 km range
1200.0 kg
batteries: FEVT EnergyPack 32 (32 kWh Li-Ion system with BMS);
motor: Leroy-Somer Sep-Excited, 11-20kW / 12.7m.daN,72kg;
controller: SAGEM 140V 200A IGBT 400A/600V based;
top speed: 100 km/h limited by OEM but will be cracked :);
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\641.html
Kim Bottle's '95 Solectria Force
169.87 Wh/mile
9.42 km/kWh
7.6 KWh battery capacity
72 km range
1272.7 kg
batteries: thirteen Deka 8G27 12 Volt sealed gell-cell batteries
motor: Solectria ACgu20 (3 phase AC motor)
controller: Solectria AC325
top speed: about 75 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\456.html
James Corder's '96 Solectria Force
169.87 Wh/mile
9.42 km/kWh
7.6 KWh battery capacity
72 km range
1272.7 kg
batteries: thirteen 8G27 sealed gell cell batteries
motor: Solectria DAC System
controller: Solectria DAC System
top speed: 70 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\540.html
ProEV Inc's '95 Subaru Impreza 166.32 Wh/mile
9.62 km/kWh
16.6 KWh battery capacity
160 km range
1272.7 kg
batteries: eighty-eight 70 amp/hr Kokam Lithium Polymer
motor: two Siemans 5134WS20
controller: two Siemans 6SV1 AC Controllers
top speed: Tested over 120 MPH;
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\464.html
Wolf Sator's Sator Elf-Cab
160.00 Wh/mile
10.00 km/kWh
9.6 KWh battery capacity
96 km range
522.7 kg
batteries: 48V-200Ah EV lead acid gel (Exide);
motor: AC asynchron motor, 80 Nm torque, 7kW nom. 13kW
controller: programmable microprocessor, with regen
top speed: 45 mph (70 km/hr)
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\341.html
Paul V.'s Porsche 911
156.00 Wh/mile
10.26 km/kWh
7.8 KWh battery capacity
80 km range
1068.2 kg
batteries: 13 Exide Select orbital AGM
motor: Kostov 11"
controller: DCP Raptor 1000 amp
top speed: 90 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\444.html
top trucks
Bob Gruenwald's '87 Plymouth Voyager Minivan
320.00 Wh/mile
5.00 km/kWh
14.4 KWh battery capacity
72 km range
1818.2 kg
batteries: 24 Red Top Optima's
motor: Modified Reliance RPM AC
controller: 120 Kw Flux Vector AC Traction Controller
top speed: 90 mph, so far
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\377.html
Eric Lambert's '94Chevrolet S-10 White Angel
307.20 Wh/mile
5.21 km/kWh
20.0 KWh battery capacity
104 km range
2136.4 kg
batteries: 52 Hawker Genesis 32 Ah (2 banks in parallel)
motor: GM Hughes AC induction 3-phase
controller: GM Hughes AC power inverter
top speed: 70 mph (governed)
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\230.html
Tom Stockebrand's '82 Isuzu Pickup
294.55 Wh/mile
5.43 km/kWh
32.4 KWh battery capacity
176 km range
2227.3 kg
batteries: Twenty Four Trojan T-145 Flooded Lead-Acid
motor: Advanced DC FB-4001
controller: Curtis 1231C
top speed: 75 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\072.html
Steve Richardson's '90 Mitsubishi Mighty Max pickup
288.00 Wh/mile
5.56 km/kWh
28.8 KWh battery capacity
160 km range
1181.8 kg
batteries: 48 Optima Yellow Tops
motor: Kostov Series Wound DC
controller: DC Power Systems DCP-1200
top speed: unknown at this time
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\026.html
Philippe's '00 Renault Express
230.40 Wh/mile
6.94 km/kWh
15.1 KWh battery capacity
105 km range
1100.0 kg
batteries: 18 Saft Ni-cad STM140, 6V-140A
motor: DC sep. exc.
controller: IGBT400A 108V with regen
top speed: 90km/h , 0-50km/h in 10s
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\331.html
other cars that have unusually high km/kWh for their weight:
William Korthof'S Honda EVplus
235.64 Wh/mile
6.79 km/kWh
25.9 KWh battery capacity
176 km range
1636.4 kg
batteries: Nickel Metal Hydride pack
motor: Brushless DC, 3 phase
controller: Honda "PCM"
top speed: 86 mph (governed)
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\086.html
Steve Clunn's '80 Porsche 924 Turbo
220.00 Wh/mile
7.27 km/kWh
13.2 KWh battery capacity
96 km range
1727.3 kg
batteries: twenty 12 Volt group 31 flooded deep cycle lead-acid
motor: 11" Kostov
controller: DCP T-Rex 336 Volt 600 Amp
top speed: 75 + mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\388.html
Doug Canfield's Consolair
221.08 Wh/mile
7.24 km/kWh
9.4 KWh battery capacity
68 km range
1818.2 kg
batteries: twenty-nine Hawkers 12 Volt 27Ah
motor: 50kW AC vector controlled;
controller: Hughes Dolphin;
top speed: 72 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\698.html
--- End Message ---
