EV Digest 5786
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Lion fires
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV List Moderation (was : A123 pack configuration in
KillaCycle)
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Material science 101
by "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: New EV board !!!!!
by "ROBERT GOUDREAU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: kids EV
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) There's a Gen1 Prius with somewhat substantial rear end damage for sale in
Quebec. CAN$6500
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Swiftech pumps
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV List Moderation (was : A123 pack configuration in KillaCycle)
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: New EV board !!!!!
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Inrush current limiting the IOTA DLS-55
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: connectors for NiMH batteries?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: dc/dc converter with common ground
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: I don't need a dc-dc converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: article: Tesla Roadster Sells Out First 100 Cars
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) A note on potentiometers
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: I don't need a dc-dc converter
by Staffanson Brian J Civ 309 EMXG/QPE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) CurrentEliminator
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) A123 battery fire (was: Lion fires)
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: CurrentEliminator
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: connectors for NiMH batteries?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: article: Tesla Roadster Sells Out First 100 Cars
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV List Moderation (was : A123 pack configuration in KillaCycle)
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: kids EV
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: connectors for NiMH batteries?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: A note on potentiometers
by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: article: Tesla Roadster Sells Out First 100 Cars
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: Lion fires
> Oh man!!!
> I gotta get me some Thermite!!!
>
> That's way too much fire and fun...
> It's a lotta fun! We used to use it on the RR to attach signal bond
wires, to ther rails around the joints, As the bolted together rail joints
were less than perfect electrically. Just about a thimble full in the carbon
mold cups was enough to weld things together, strike it and DUCK! Or run
like hell!The Thirmite cane in little packages called " Shots" appropriately
enough. Any Signal guy on the RR is used to the stuff.
My two shots worth
Bob
> Blow holes all the way through Cars....
>
Easier way to remove ICE for your next conversion?
> This would be some added carnage for the 4th of July around here.
> The Boys up on the Reservation..think they have the biggest fire balls,
and
> shock waves..Thermite, a Car full of gas... and Stand back...WAY back!!!
>
> MADman
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:00 AM
> Subject: Lion fires
>
>
> > This thread
> >
> >
>
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=31&t=4325&s=71612a004543b13cb5673077c0e2711a
> >
> > has some discussion of the effects of lithium fires. Craig Ucheda is a
> > particularly extreme EV scooter enthusiast. Apparently the Fire Marshall
> > isn't so thrilled by his hobby...
> >
> > Of course, gasoline burns pretty well too...
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdCsbZf1_Ng&NR
> >
> > Mark
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FWIW, I have noticed for some reason I don't always receive all the
messages. When I posted the thread about 72 Volt conversions, I saw
no replies and thought that was odd. I checked the Yahoo archive and
found two responses. Sometimes I don't even get copies of my own
messages. Ghost in the machine I guess. It is hard to fault a free
service though. :^)
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Because a thin layer doesn't really add any resistance.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:20 AM
Subject: Material science 101
I'm told it's important to have nickel plating over copper interconects
for these flooded nicads I'm getting to prevent corrosion. So if copper
is a 100 on the relative conductivity scale and nickel is a 5, then why
should the great conducting copper be plated with the crummy conducting
nickel??
Mike
Aluminum 59
Brass 28
Cadmium 19
Chromium 55
Cobalt 16.3
Constantin 3.24
Copper:
Hard drawn 89.5
Annealed 100
Gold 65
Iron:
Pure 17.7
Cast 2-12
Wrought 11.4
Lead 7
Manganin 3.7
Mercury 1.66
Molybdenum 33.2
Nichrome 1.45
Nickel 12-16
Nickel silver 5.3(18%)
Phosphor bronze 36
Platinum 15
Silver 106
Steel 3-15
Tin 13
Titanium 5
Tungsten 28.9
Zinc 28.2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes,i found this board to,it will be a good place to talk about EVs.
On 8/23/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey everybody! Sign up.
This is just what we need.
A forum where we can post topics in an organized way. I signed up last
night. See you there!
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 9:08 AM
Subject: New EV board !!!!!
Please,come and chat with us about your passion for EVs.
http://electricperformance.com/forum/index.php
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and
IM. All on demand. Always Free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: kids EV
I have not heard of using DC on an AC motor. There
needs to be a way of switching the magnetic field.
Except that the many electric weed wackers use dc motors with a bridge
rectifier , the problem for using them on other stuff is that they will
need 120v to put out the power / running them on 12 to 48v is not going to
give much power . Lots of them are permanent magnet so they make good
generators ,
Steve clunn
In
an AC, it's done more or less at the power plant. DC
does it mechanically (commutator).
--- Staffanson Brian J Civ 309 EMXG/QPE
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If I wanted to build a kids-sized car (think 3-5
year old), what size of
motor would I need? I ask because we had to buy a
new electric weed eater,
because of parts problems with my old (15 years at
least) one. The electric
motor works fine. Would I be able to run this on a
certain amount of DC
volt, and have it able to run around a 100 to 150 lb
vehicle including kid?
(I really don't need another project with all the
other honey-dos, but you
have to be prepared.) I appreciate any comments.
Brian
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thought someone could make use of the components...
There's a Gen1 Prius with somewhat substantial rear end damage for
sale in Quebec. CAN$6500
http://www.canadatrader.com/result/detailinfo.aspx?ID=21471389&pgno=2&srt=1
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Both of these pumps seem pretty good. I just did a quick google on them and
found these specs from the same store-
655 pump at http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-pmp-27.html - $89.95
Nominal voltage: 12 V DC
Operating voltage range: 6 to 14 VDC
Nominal power (@ 12 V): 24 W
Nominal current (@ 12 V): 2 amps
Motor type: Brushless, microprocessor controlled
Maximum head: 10 ft (3.1 m)
Maximum discharge: ~ 317 GPH (1200 LPH)
Connection size: 1/2" barbs (3/8" w/ conversion kit)
Maximum pressure: 50 PSI (3.5 BAR)
Temperature range: 32 °F to 140°F (0 °C to 60 °C)
Electrical connector: 4-pin Power Supply Connector
Weight: 1.4 LB (650 gr.)
Impeller Housing material: Noryl®
"A potentiometer allows to adjust the pumps speed from 4800 rpm down to 1800
rpm. At 1800 rpm, the pump is virtually silent. This allows users to tune the
pump performance/noise ratio to their particular preference"
so the rpm can be regulated according to cooling needs.
350 pump at http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-pmp-31 - $79.95
Technical specifications: Nominal voltage: 12 V DC
Operating voltage range: 6 to 13.2 VDC
Nominal power (@ 12 V): 8.3 W
Nominal current (@ 12 V): .69 amps
Nominal head (@ 12 V): 13.05 ft (4 m)
Nominal discharge (@ 12 V): ~ 92.4 GPH (350 LPH)
Connection size: 3/8" barbs (10mm)
Maximum pressure: 22 PSI (1.5 BAR)
Temperature range: Up to 140°F (60°C)
Electrical connector: 4-pin Power Supply Connector
Weight: 7.3 oz (207 gr.)
Our noise measurement (non lab environment): 24 ~ 26 dBA in a quiet room
@ 2'
Motor type: Electronically commutated, brushless DC, spherical motor
Pump MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures): 50,000 Hours
Jeff- were you able to find one for $39? or were you referring to the RV pumps?
Does anybody have any input on these pumps?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AFAIK, I _never_ get my own post back. I just thought that was how it worked.
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert, there already too many forums for EVs. EVforge.net has been around
for a number of months. The Tesla has its own forum. This list is very
popular and although this list uses older technology, it works. There is
also Evtech for ev technology, and EVBMS for BMS systems. Also there are
several yahoo groups for special interest EVs.
I do not see the benefit of yet another forum.
FWIW There have been numerous attempts to move this list to a web based
forum with little luck. Most of the powers that be are happy with the way
this list works.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ROBERT GOUDREAU
Sent: August 22, 2006 7:09 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: New EV board !!!!!
Please,come and chat with us about your passion for EVs.
http://electricperformance.com/forum/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Poulsen wrote:
> I have an IOTA DLS-55 which I intend to use as a DC/DC. I've noticed
> that when I plug it in (to AC), there's a healthy spark because of
> inrush current to charge the capacitors.
Right!
> 1) Would a inrush thermistor work to suppress this?
> http://www.ametherm.com/Bigamp_datasheet.htm)
Yes, it helps.
Note that this type of inrush limiter is cheap, but not good. It only
reduces the inrush current maybe 4:1. It is in the circuit all the time,
causing a voltage drop, which lowers efficiency. They run very hot; the
heat can damage nearby parts, and causes the inrush limiter itself to
fail relatively soon.
> 2) I don't see any reason you can't use the thermistor with DC --
> right?
Right. They are basically just a temperature-dependent resistor, and
don't care whether they are used on AC or DC.
> 3) Why didn't IOTA limit the inrush better?
They, and most other power supply manufacturers put in the absolute
minimum amount of inrush limiting they can get away with to save money.
Customers don't notice. If anything fails due to inrush, it will be a
something in the customer's equipment; a fuse, circuit breaker, switch,
connector, etc.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
> where does one get nickel (plated) battery lugs?
Nickel or nickel-plated terminals are used for high temperature
applications as well as batteries. All the big terminal manufacturer's
catalogs list them. The selection is smaller, though; you may not find
exactly the wire size / hole size combination you want.
Nickel is pretty easy to electroplate. It is one of the steps in chrome
plating, so most electroplating shops can do it. You could get a bunch
of copper terminals of the right size, and have them plated.
> And... are the terminals on a NiMH battery *solid* nickel?
The ones on the actual battery are probably solid nickel. It's not that
expensive a metal. The terminals may be plated, as nickel is fairly hard
and stiff; thick nickel terminals won't crimp very well (too much
spring-back). The plating can be as thick as you like, so no reasonable
amount of polishing will wear through it.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
elaine chiu wrote:
> rewiring my citicar... the dc/dc converter has a common ground.
> isn't this dangerous to have my pack voltage grounded to chassis?
The danger is that you can get a shock by touching the chassis and any
propulsion battery terminal. However, with a 48v CitiCar, the shock
hazard is low.
The other danger is that if a wire or something connected to the
propulsion wiring touches ground, you have a short circuit. The
batteries will happily supply hundreds of amps into this short,
potentially causing a fire.
If possible, I would rewire your DC/DC so it does not ground the
propulsion pack. If it has a non-isolated output, I would use a
different DC/DC that is isolated.
> I found one of those silver canister solenoids for 12v. Can I use
> that to switch the dc/dc converter on with the ignition?
You could, but they are really poor quality parts. A much smaller,
higher quality relay would do the job better.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've done many EVs, and used several different methods to get 12v
accessory power. There are *many* subtle factors involved, which is why
there is no "perfect" solution, and so many different systems are in
use.
1. A separate 12v battery for accessories. No DC/DC. Charge this 12v
battery when parked, at the same time as the propulsion pack.
- simple
- cheap
- no load on propulsion pack
- requires a big 12v battery (~40 lbs, 30ah at 1-hour rate)
- lights dim, motors slow as 12v battery runs down
2. A big 12v accessory battery, plus a small DC/DC converter powered
by the propulsion pack.
- cost of small DC/DC is offset by eliminating separate 12v charger
- lights don't dim, motors don't slow for normal driving; but *do*
in worst-case conditions (rainy night, heater, radio, etc. all on)
- propulsion pack lightly loaded; slight range reduction
- if DC/DC is left on while parked, sitting idle a long time runs
down the propulsion pack
3. Small 12v accessory battery, plus a big DC/DC converter powered
by the propulsion pack.
- costs more (DC/DC cost more than savings on smaller 12v battery)
- lights never dim, motors never slow
- propulsion pack lighty loaded; slight range reduction
- must leave DC/DC on while parked; 12v battery too small to
handle parasitic accessory loads for long
- small 12v battery tends to die early (from float voltage)
4. Big DC/DC, no accessory battery, large (>1 farad) capacitor.
- costs more than #3, but eliminates battery and its replacements
- smallest and lightest
- otherwise, same as #3
5. My battery balancer; a 12v accessory battery, and a single DC/DC
powered by the propulsion pack that is switched to whichever
battery needs charging the most.
- expensive
- extends range by transferring charge from highest to lowest
battery, thus eliminating the "weakest link"
- 12v sags a little, but DC/DC periodically brings it back up
(performance is in between no DC/DC, and full-time DC/DC)
There are lots of side issues. Do you leave the DC/DC on when parked, or
shut it off? Do you hold the 12v battery at 13.5v for long life, or 14v
for normal 12v accessory operation? Do long idle periods run down the
propulsion pack, or just the 12v accessory battery?
The 12v system in normal cars is pretty bad. The voltage regulation is
poor (varies from 10v-14.5v), so lights and motors *normally* vary
noticeably during operation -- most people don't even notice.
Automotive wiring has 1v to 2v drops between the battery and actual
loads. They depend on the alternator to provide 14v so you get 12v at
the headlight. With just the 12v battery (no DC/DC), you only get 10v at
the headlight -- no wonder it's dim! There's considerable room for
improvement just by replacing the stock wiring with heavier, lower-drop
components.
Automotive loads are also extremely wasteful of 12v power. The motors
are only 50-60% efficient. The clock draws 100 times more than a home
battery clock. The radio draws amps instead of milliamps. There are
dozens of light bulbs which could be replaced by LEDs. Reducing power
isn't significant as far as range is concerned, but it reduces the size,
weight, and cost of your 12v system.
You certainly could use something other than a lead-acid battery for
your 12v power. It would cost more, but be lighter and smaller, and
might last longer. Choose it for a slightly higher voltage, to make up
for the 1v-2v drop. Nicads are attractive, because they don't vary much
under load and tolerate being run dead.
You could also use a non-isolated DC/DC, to convert your varying
accessory battery voltage to a regulated 14v (or whatever). Such
converters are smaller, lighter, more efficient, and cheaper than
isolated converters, because they only have to handle the power
*difference*, not the total power. For example a 14v 30a isolated
converter handles 14v x 30a = 420 watts. A 12v-to-14v 30a non-isolated
converter handles (14v-12v) x 30a = 60 watts; 1/7th the power means
about 1/7th the size, weight, and cost.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
steve clunn wrote:
> Larry who is driving my Toyota Tercel conversion and plays bass in
> Brian's band was late for rehearsal Monday night and when he got
> there the first words out of his mouth were, "One of my guitar
> student's dad just bought a Tesla!"... our leader puts his foot
> down and says, "NO TALKING ABOUT ELECTRIC CARS WHEN WE ARE PLAYING
> MUSIC".
Take him some of my electric car lyrics for popular songs. Then you can
talk about electric cars and play at the same time! (Gas Hog Lincoln,
The Man Who Never Recharged, etc. :-)
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've spent a fair amount of time repairing audio equipment. One of the
more common problems is "scratching" in the volume knob, or dead spots,
or weird jumps. Replacing the pot is one option. Often a shot of what
used to be called "Color TV Tuner Cleaner", or "TV-Tuner/Control Cleaner
& Lubricant" from Radio Shack would do the trick. It's essentially
Dichloroflouroethane, mineral oil, and silicone lube.
Shoot it inside the pot housing, and run the pot back and forth through
it's full range several times. This product leaves a film of
(nonconductive) oil behind. Works like a champ. Best way to be sure
your pot is smooth again is to wire it up to a power supply, and put the
wiper connection to an o-scope, and see if it sweeps smoothly. Kinda
overkill, though.
WRT the "Hall Effect Potentiometers," the problem with these is that
they are _truly_ potentiometers. They provide a variable 0-5V at the
"wiper" output which is relational to the shaft position.
Unfortunately, what most controller manufacturers refer to as a
"potentiometer" is in fact a rheostat (actually, a potentiometer wired
as a rheostat). The hall effect pots cannot (directly) be used to
replace the pot used by a controller. It's probably possible to use the
output of an HE pot to control a transconductance amplifier, which would
emulate a rheostat.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
Are you saying that your battery balancer continually monitors all of the
batteries, and the DC/DC will add to that one, even when traveling? If this
isn't correct, I don't understand. Would you explain a little more?
So is the IOTA-55 charger/DC-DC isolated or not? When you talk isolated, do
you mean one DC voltage isolated from the other DC voltage?
Thanks,
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:40 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: I don't need a dc-dc converter
I've done many EVs, and used several different methods to get 12v
accessory power. There are *many* subtle factors involved, which is why
there is no "perfect" solution, and so many different systems are in
use.
5. My battery balancer; a 12v accessory battery, and a single DC/DC
powered by the propulsion pack that is switched to whichever
battery needs charging the most.
- expensive
- extends range by transferring charge from highest to lowest
battery, thus eliminating the "weakest link"
- 12v sags a little, but DC/DC periodically brings it back up
(performance is in between no DC/DC, and full-time DC/DC)
You could also use a non-isolated DC/DC, to convert your varying accessory
battery voltage to a regulated 14v (or whatever). Such converters are
smaller, lighter, more efficient, and cheaper than isolated converters,
because they only have to handle the power *difference*, not the total
power. For example a 14v 30a isolated converter handles 14v x 30a = 420
watts. A 12v-to-14v 30a non-isolated converter handles (14v-12v) x 30a = 60
watts; 1/7th the power means about 1/7th the size, weight, and cost.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Way to go Dennis!
Excellent news for the PBS film also. I hope that lots of EV's from Phoenix can
make it up there support your efforts. According to mapquest it is only 30
miles from Grand and I10 to Speedworld
I'll be up to see you race for at least one of them, maybe both.
Later,
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
> For the newest members of the list and the rest of us that are interested,
> the following is a summary of this years achievement of the Current
> Eliminator V and its owner, designer, builder and driver Dennis Berube:
>
> This is a historic year (2006) for Division 7 of the National Hot Rod
> Association (NHRA). Since the NHRA's inception in 1951, all of the top
> competitors in it's ranks have run on combustible fuels, this is the first
> time an all-electric vehicle has gone this far in the division finals for
> bracket racing.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That guy Craig Uyeda claims that one of his 100 A123 li-ion cells caught on
fire. Does anyone know the circumstances of that and how it happened?
I didn't think it was possible for A123 li-ions to catch fire because of
their lithium-iron-phosphate chemistry being very distinct and much safer
than the common lithium-cobalt-oxide chemistry used in the industry-standard
18650 laptop cells, in particular with no "oxide" to be liberated in the
case of LiFeP. Valence and A123, both of which use lithium-iron-phosphate
chemistries, claim that something like that (a fire) is not supposed to be
able to happen with their batteries.
Very curious and wondering how that happened with the A123 cell.
Charles Whalen
On Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:00 AM, Mark Fisher wrote:
This thread
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=31&t=4325&s=71612a004543b13cb5673077c0e2711a
has some discussion of the effects of lithium fires. Craig Ucheda is a
particularly extreme EV scooter enthusiast. Apparently the Fire Marshall
isn't so thrilled by his hobby...
Of course, gasoline burns pretty well too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdCsbZf1_Ng&NR
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Indeed very impressive performance by Dennis Berube and his Current
Eliminator, not just going fast for an electric, but winning bracket
races with it.
Are only electric cars going to be running at the NEDRA late night
nationals this weekend?
Jack
Rush wrote:
Way to go Dennis!
Excellent news for the PBS film also. I hope that lots of EV's from Phoenix can
make it up there support your efforts. According to mapquest it is only 30
miles from Grand and I10 to Speedworld
I'll be up to see you race for at least one of them, maybe both.
Later,
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
For the newest members of the list and the rest of us that are interested,
the following is a summary of this years achievement of the Current
Eliminator V and its owner, designer, builder and driver Dennis Berube:
This is a historic year (2006) for Division 7 of the National Hot Rod
Association (NHRA). Since the NHRA's inception in 1951, all of the top
competitors in it's ranks have run on combustible fuels, this is the first
time an all-electric vehicle has gone this far in the division finals for
bracket racing.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For reference:
For my upcoming Nicad pack I called the local plater today and it's
$72 for a minimum lot charge. So I can hand him a box full of parts
and get it done in 2 days pretty cheap. I may be able to recycle my
lead acid pack interconnects for this project as they are mirror
polished copper that's still in nice shape.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jim Coate wrote:
> > where does one get nickel (plated) battery lugs?
>
> Nickel or nickel-plated terminals are used for high temperature
> applications as well as batteries. All the big terminal manufacturer's
> catalogs list them. The selection is smaller, though; you may not find
> exactly the wire size / hole size combination you want.
>
> Nickel is pretty easy to electroplate. It is one of the steps in chrome
> plating, so most electroplating shops can do it. You could get a bunch
> of copper terminals of the right size, and have them plated.
>
> > And... are the terminals on a NiMH battery *solid* nickel?
>
> The ones on the actual battery are probably solid nickel. It's not that
> expensive a metal. The terminals may be plated, as nickel is fairly hard
> and stiff; thick nickel terminals won't crimp very well (too much
> spring-back). The plating can be as thick as you like, so no reasonable
> amount of polishing will wear through it.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's it Lee! I'm a closet Blues song writer. Now I have to make a
song about EV's.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> steve clunn wrote:
> > Larry who is driving my Toyota Tercel conversion and plays bass in
> > Brian's band was late for rehearsal Monday night and when he got
> > there the first words out of his mouth were, "One of my guitar
> > student's dad just bought a Tesla!"... our leader puts his foot
> > down and says, "NO TALKING ABOUT ELECTRIC CARS WHEN WE ARE PLAYING
> > MUSIC".
>
> Take him some of my electric car lyrics for popular songs. Then you can
> talk about electric cars and play at the same time! (Gas Hog Lincoln,
> The Man Who Never Recharged, etc. :-)
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This happens often to me. If my post doesn't show up the next day I usually
send it again. After the 2nd one shows up, the 1st one usually follows shortly.
----- Original Message -----
From: David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:48 am
Subject: EV List Moderation (was : A123 pack configuration in KillaCycle)
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> On 22 Aug 2006 at 11:47, Bill Dube wrote:
>
> > I wrote a note to the list about my Tampa stay, but the
> moderator
> > apparently cut it out.
>
> For the record, this did not and does not happen.
>
> AFAIK, there is no way to intercept individual posts on this list.
> There
> isn't even anyone watching them go by. You post and when the
> server load
> falls enough for it to cope ;-) your post gets sent to the list.
> There is
> no active moderation.
>
> This mostly works well because we have a fairly thoughful and
> circumspect
> membership. The list owner does have the ability to delete
> accounts in case
> someone becomes a problem. He has used that ability only twice in
> my
> recollection, though he's come close a couple more times.
>
> Bill, If your post didn't make it to the list, it may have been an
> email
> glitch or a server hiccough. But I can assure you, it wasn't the
> result of
> anyone's deliberate action against the post or you.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach
> me.
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brian Staffanson wrote:
"If I wanted to build a kids-sized car (think 3-5 year old), what size of
motor would I need? <snip> I appreciate any comments."
I've found that powerwheels are fantastic. Usually new owners who have more
money than sense pay the $300 or so for new ones, and don't maintain the
battery, so that it dies in less than a year. By that time the kids have lost
interest because they are so slow. Then they take them to thrift stores where
I've picked them up for the $1-2 range. The most I've spent is $5. You get a
complete vehicle that way.
You pop in a surplus battery like a hawker genesis G13EP (I've also started
using the 13AH "Zeus" AGM's from surpluscenter recently) and make sure you have
a decent 10A 12V charger that is voltage regulated so it doesn't overcharge the
AGM (I use a schumaker with a switch for the battery type - the "deep cycle"
setting regulates at 14.4V, which is perfect), and it'll run twice as long as
stock.
An aside here - I've had a lot of fun jump-starting things from that little
hawker while it was in the powerwheels. Talk about an EV grin! Just imagine
the face of anyone watching!
If you want to beef it up, rewire it with 10 gage, and put in a self-resetting
circuit breaker to make sure the current doesn't exceed 30 amps (I think that
is the stock CB rating). Mine have never tripped a breaker.
Most of them use some combination of buttons and levers to serve as a 4P3T
switch, which is wired for 2 forward speeds (series/parallel switching of
either the motors or the batteries depending on the vehicle) and one reverse
(series mode but reversed polarity). The ones with a lever sometimes
incorporated a mechanical lock pin to keep younger riders from reaching into
the parallel (faster) gear. Take out the switch to access and remove the pin.
You can upgrade the 6V ones to 12V, but watch the gearset as described below.
The increased torque tears the 6V gearsets up.
Some powerwheels tips: If you get one with a bad body (they disintegrate if
left in the sun), strip the drive units, wheels, etc. The drive units all use
pretty much the same gearset, but some have a metal gear pressed onto the motor
shaft, and some clip on a plastic gear. The plastic ones strip out in the
bore. Substitute the ones with the metal gear (they were available surplus a
while back), and you will be happier. The motors have various failure modes.
I have seen the fan come loose from the shaft, causing the motor to overheat,
and I have seen the wiring tabs come loose due to a poor soldering job at the
factory. www.mendingshed.com is a good place to get stuff like the acellerator
switch. Lastly, the best way to get the wheels to stay on is to use a drill
press to (carefully!) drill a hole through the axle so you can put in a washer
and a cotter pin instead of those cheesy push nuts to hold the wheels on.
Search the archives for the subject line "fun with powerwheels" for more great
posts. Joe Smalley has one where the only stock part left is the body. He's
seen his kids and all their friends (6 kids total I think) ride it all day long
- at the same time!. 36V, I think, plus 2 added batteries in front for ballast
(the jeeps tend to tip up with too much torque!)
David Brandt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For that price, you can get an electroless nickel plating kit.
There's almost always one on Ebay listed by Caswell---you can also order direct
from them as I did.
I've been using this method to plate many of the vintage handles, screws, etc.
on my 1921 Milburn. I'm guessing that the kit comes with enough nickel plate
solution to plate a good 100sqin with at least a couple mils of nickel plate.
The electroless method ensures even plating on all the surfaces and no worries
about electrode location. So far I've been pleased with the stuff...and I was
ready to use our local platers (of which there are several in Portland), but it
was clear that they were into bigger jobs than my handful of small parts. So I
became a plater.
-Myles Twete, Portland
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For reference:
>
> For my upcoming Nicad pack I called the local plater today and it's
> $72 for a minimum lot charge. So I can hand him a box full of parts
> and get it done in 2 days pretty cheap. I may be able to recycle my
> lead acid pack interconnects for this project as they are mirror
> polished copper that's still in nice shape.
>
> Mike
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> > Jim Coate wrote:
> > > where does one get nickel (plated) battery lugs?
> >
> > Nickel or nickel-plated terminals are used for high temperature
> > applications as well as batteries. All the big terminal manufacturer's
> > catalogs list them. The selection is smaller, though; you may not find
> > exactly the wire size / hole size combination you want.
> >
> > Nickel is pretty easy to electroplate. It is one of the steps in chrome
> > plating, so most electroplating shops can do it. You could get a bunch
> > of copper terminals of the right size, and have them plated.
> >
> > > And... are the terminals on a NiMH battery *solid* nickel?
> >
> > The ones on the actual battery are probably solid nickel. It's not that
> > expensive a metal. The terminals may be plated, as nickel is fairly hard
> > and stiff; thick nickel terminals won't crimp very well (too much
> > spring-back). The plating can be as thick as you like, so no reasonable
> > amount of polishing will wear through it.
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Eric,
Has anyone developed a opto-isolator so there won't be dead spots? You know
sooner or later a potentiometer on the floor is going fail!
-Ralph
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 12:13:30 -0700
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've spent a fair amount of time repairing audio equipment. One of the
> more common problems is "scratching" in the volume knob, or dead spots,
> or weird jumps. Replacing the pot is one option. Often a shot of what
> used to be called "Color TV Tuner Cleaner", or "TV-Tuner/Control Cleaner
> & Lubricant" from Radio Shack would do the trick. It's essentially
> Dichloroflouroethane, mineral oil, and silicone lube.
>
> Shoot it inside the pot housing, and run the pot back and forth through
> it's full range several times. This product leaves a film of
> (nonconductive) oil behind. Works like a champ. Best way to be sure
> your pot is smooth again is to wire it up to a power supply, and put the
> wiper connection to an o-scope, and see if it sweeps smoothly. Kinda
> overkill, though.
>
> WRT the "Hall Effect Potentiometers," the problem with these is that
> they are _truly_ potentiometers. They provide a variable 0-5V at the
> "wiper" output which is relational to the shaft position.
> Unfortunately, what most controller manufacturers refer to as a
> "potentiometer" is in fact a rheostat (actually, a potentiometer wired
> as a rheostat). The hall effect pots cannot (directly) be used to
> replace the pot used by a controller. It's probably possible to use the
> output of an HE pot to control a transconductance amplifier, which would
> emulate a rheostat.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
So I take it from the context of your post that this guy who just bought a
Tesla lives somewhere there in or near the Ft. Pierce area, is that right?
Hot dang, so you mean we're going to have a Tesla right here in South
Florida? Awesome! Do you think maybe we could get him to bring it out to
Moroso and run it down the track? Of course it wouldn't be in time for BBB
2007, but he should have it time for BBB 2008. Something to look forward
to!
To answer your question, Steve, about when he will get it, my understanding
is sometime around July 2007.
As for Bob Rice's question about whether any of us in our extended "family"
know anyone else who has bought a Tesla, I know a few people who are
seriously considering it and trying to get together the $100k to do it.
$50k seems a lot more doable for some, but they're trying to reach for the
$100k.
One person who is in our extended "family" here is Rick Woodbury, and he
definitely knows someone who has bought a Tesla, because that person is his
first (and so far, *only*, from what I've heard) customer who has bought one
of his Tangos, namely George Clooney, who dropped $100k for a Tesla, which
of course is pocket change for him. In fact, Woodbury drove Clooney's Tango
to the big Tesla premiere/unveiling in Santa Monica a few weeks ago, where
he was showing it off just outside the venue.
I just got a call from someone this morning who told me about one of his
customers that wanted to buy a Tesla but apparently said the first batch of
100 cars is already sold out and it would take too long to get in the queue
for the next batch or something like that, so he is commissioning this guy
and his company to build him an electric sports car with similar driving
range and performance in that same price range, ~$100k.
Charles Whalen
On Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:55 AM, Steve Clunn wrote:
Larry who is driving my Toyota torcell conversion and plays bass in
"Brian's" band ( not mine :-) was late for rehearsal Monday night and
when he got there the first words out of his mouth where " one of my
guitar student's dad just bought a Tesla !". I had lot's of questions for
him but seems wife's aren't the only ones that get tired of hearing about
EV's and our leader puts his foot down " NO TALKING ABOUT ELECTRIC CARS
WHEN WE ARE PLAYING MUSIC" . I had to wait till after practice to get the
details . Larry say the guy probable spends more than the price of the car
on landscaping each year , he did show him his EV which I'm sure when you
are getting a Tesla , a Toyota loaded up with golf cart batteries is not
that impressive. Now the big question , how long till he gets it ? will
report as thing happen
Steve Clunn
As you say, I'm sure that *for them* it was a reasonable choice. Of
course as someone said before, $100K isn't that much anymore.
--- End Message ---
