EV Digest 6665
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: wrapping up the regen discussion
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Regenerative Clamper
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Rednecks and EVs
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: "largish" brushless motors available
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Motor to Axle Options
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Potboxes
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Converting my F-150
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Potboxes
by "BadFishRacing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Rednecks and EVs
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: "bulging" case a visual sign of a bad floodie? - Not really
by robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: "largish" brushless motors available
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: "largish" brushless motors available
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: "bulging" case a visual sign of a bad floodie? - Not really
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Motor to Axle Options
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: wrapping up the regen discussion
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: "bulging" case a visual sign of a bad floodie? - Not really
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EVLN(Pune's no-frills rapid recharging stations)
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: HOW TO DRIVE AN EV FOR MAXIMUM RANGE. Re: EVLN(Tofu maker Toya
pulses & glides his hybrid to nenpimania)
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: "bulging" case a visual sign of a bad floodie? - Not really
by Elizabeth Milley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) EV's on eBay
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: HOW TO DRIVE AN EV FOR MAXIMUM RANGE. Re: EVLN(Tofu maker Toya
pulses & glides his hybrid to nenpimania)
by robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) GM Kills the Volt .......... Vote
by Joseph Lado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
roger : do you have a web site for the zapi SEM-3 controller?
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Stockton<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: wrapping up the regen discussion
john fisher wrote:
> So tell me where I got it wrong:
>
> 1) its easier to do regen with AC; but AC motors are very
> expensive off-the shelf, like 3x DC.
True for motors intended for EV/automotive applications, but not
necessarily in general (i.e. ordinary industrial AC motors aren't so
expensive).
> 2) DC shunt type motors can do regen, also reverse, but
> require a special controller for both.
This general statement applies to all DC motors. Series, sep-ex, PMDC,
etc. can all do regen and reverse when mated to the approriate
controller.
> 3) Curtis does make such a controller, but its only made or
> only available in low-voltage ( i.e. golf car market) sizes,
> typically 48 V max.
Curtis makes sep-ex controllers up to 72V and 400A.
> 4) Mechanical regen is possible, but of course requires a
> separate generator and automatically controlled clutch-like
> mechanism. This complexity and weight probably rules it out
> for most builders.
Regen using a dedicated generator is possible and does not require an
automatically controlled clutch type mechanism. For instance, one of
these:
<http://www.fabcopower.com/generat/bgen.htm<http://www.fabcopower.com/generat/bgen.htm>>
Feeding a PFCxx charger would provide a simple regen setup. Let the
alternator spin with the drive motor and just power the field when you
want regen.
> 5) D&D makes regen-capable sepex motors up to 72 V they tell
> me, but thats too low a voltage for a peppy 1500 lb EV.
> Possibly interesting to MC builders, or ultra-lightweight builders.
Depending what speeds you need to achieve, and whether you are planning
on a fixed ratio or multi-speed tranny a 72V 400A controller and 72V
sepex motor can certainly result in a peppy 1500lb EV. (Not White Zombie
peppy, but peppy nonetheless... ;^)
For more pep, look at using a Zapi SEM-3 (72-96V, 500A) sep-ex
controller, or a pair of motors and a dual SEM-3 controller (this is a
single 72-96V controller intended to supply up to 500A to each of 2
motors).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Recalling this message.
Victor
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I understand that Rich. My point was - while important, the
price should not be the only consideration to start with.
You made it sound like unless it's cheap, no one
would care to buy no matter how good it is.
I'm not so sure on that, but what do I know about
business?...
Victor
Rich Rudman wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: Regenerative Clamper
Regen reg sure can be cost effective. It will just always be more
expensive than a resistor+fan.
Victor
\
Exactly my point Victor
Rich Rudman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manzanita Micro
360-297-7383, Cell 360-620-6266
Production shop 360-297-1660
FAX at Metal shop 1-360-297-3311
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well it is another Friday night and after work I fired up my petrol, non
environmentally, non carbon neutral,1500 cc V twin Drifter that gets over 50
MPG due to modifications I have made. OK, no excuses. Anyway, on my way home
from my regular Friday night stop at our local brew pub I decided to visit
one of our more well known red neck establishments which just happens to be
only a few blocks from my home. The reason for this is due to some extremely
weird quirk of fate because it just happens to be a bar that Tim Brehm's
sister Miranda works at. As you all know Tim is the driver of John Wayland's
"White Zombie". Well, anyway, me and Miranda already know each other. I sit
down next to a wrinkled up older gentleman. He was quite friendly and we
struck up a conversation. He was from a NASCAR reality and had never heard
of electric drag racing. The whole conversation was actually quite
interesting. He had mostly been in the heavy equipment industry. The figures
I was telling him on electric rag racing were blowing his mind. He was very
old and very wrinkled. His nose from a sculptural perspective was
incredible. His nose first spread out and then narrowed. On the end it was
bulbous with a deep crease in the middle with flared nostrils. He had one of
the most incredible noses I have ever seen! Oops, oops, way off topic here.
Sorry. My only excuse is that I used to sculpt human faces. Anyway, back to
reality, by the time we were done conversing this elderly redneck who was at
least three years older than me seriously wanted to learn more about
electric cars.
Roderick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just FYI, MES-DEA inverters possess just that - they are able
to self-tune to the motor they run, and store found parameters
in their memory.
100 kW TIM-600 inverters currently going for $5k; 50 kW for $4.5k
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
Kaido Kert wrote:
It should include motor voltage and current sensing, and a high priority
should be placed on having the software figure out the motor
characteristics for itself. Don't depend on the user to know or measure
the motor's characteristics, and have to program them into the
controller himself!
This plan won't lead to an ACP or Zilla-beating AC drive, but it will be
something that can actually be affordable, get built, and will work!
And thats exactly what i am aiming at, in the end, but i am starting
smaller, with a working setup modified to my hearts content. currently
just 3KW, but im hoping Powerex and IRF seven-packs in 10hp range
should be relatively painless drop-ins later on.
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
MES-DEA makes single gear reduction box for their motors.
Largest motor they can handle though is 24kW (rated).
It's physically tiny, I held one in my hands.
(in one hand actually...).
Frankly IMO it is good option only for scratch built light EVs
like SMART of Think.
If you want to convert existing car with auto tranny, consider
finding manual transmission for your model and swap it.
If you cannot lock your auto tranny on desired gear and
your SAAB never came with manual option, reconsider it as a donor.
Not that it's undoable, but too much of a headache.
Victor
pjc wrote:
Dear EV'ers,
I have just under 1-week before attending my first EV club meeting, but I
simply can't wait to ask some of my questions. In particular, I have noticed
abundant information related to motors, batteries, and controllers, but I am
now seeking information related to methods of transfering power from the motor
to the vehicle.
For example, I plan to convert my 1988 Saab 900 Turbo this summer, but it is an
automatic. I understand that an automatic could be used, but that efficiencies
are lost as compared to a direct drive or a manual transmission car.
Are there many vendors that manufacture semi-off-the-shelf gearboxes for the EV
folks so that I can dispose of my automatic x-mission?
Best regards,
Pete
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Look for throttle pedal assembly from any modern drive by wire vehicle.
IT has integrated pot. Just get that [spare] part and connect it to
your controller - it will outlast your vehicle 5 times over.
Victor
FRED JEANETTE MERTENS wrote:
why have a cable running to the controller ? why not run wires to the pot box
and mount the resistor in the pot box at the accelrator pedal ? and you con
make the mounting box with a right or left maount for the control arm and the
resistor siomply is mounted on the end of the control arm and there is no need
for figuring out cables !!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: damon henry<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: Potboxes
Laser cut? Just buy an old erector set. That was my favorite toy growing
up, and I bet you could get a dozen pot boxes out of one :-)
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"This" means AC drive allows? If you think so, it is mistake - DC drive
will get you just as far in best case, probably not quite as far.
Just to let you know your range has little to do with type of the drive
system. Excluding regen benefits of an AC, either system will give
you about the same range - it is only function of your battery capacity
(kWh stored on board).
150 miles range will be very challenging to achieve unless
you either have plenty of money for advanced battery or can
put up with very heavy and slow accelerating F-150.
Search for Red Beastie. Would this be acceptable for you?
Victor
to convert the truck to all electric using a local distributor of
http://www.metricmind.com/index1.htm, but this allows me only short
^^^^
trips and I must go 120- 150 miles in some round trips to rivers nearby.
Suggestions please?
Thanks, Dirk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did something similar with a dodge intrepid throttle body. Took the
throttle body and cut a big section out of it to save space. Kept the
factory spring. Hooked it to the factory accelerator pedal. Exact factory
pedal feel!
Darin
BadFishRacing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: Potboxes
My fiero is using a throttle body from a EFI Ford Escort, cost $15 at the
junkyard, you can buy them all day long, built to last longer than the
life of the car. Also uses a cable rotation, although I set it up with a
pull cable. It has 1-3K resistance through its rotation, so not a direct
curtis replacement, the ford 3.0L throttle body is 0-5K, I use that in my
jetski.
jack
Dave Wilker wrote:
I wonder if anyone has ever tried using the gas tank float and fuel gauge
sender unit for a potbox...
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message ----- From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Potboxes
why have a cable running to the controller ? why not run wires to the
pot box and mount the resistor in the pot box at the accelrator pedal ?
and you con make the mounting box with a right or left maount for the
control arm and the resistor siomply is mounted on the end of the
control arm and there is no need for figuring out cables !!!!
----- Original Message ----- From: damon
henry<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: Potboxes
Laser cut? Just buy an old erector set. That was my favorite toy
growing
up, and I bet you could get a dozen pot boxes out of one :-)
damon
>From: James Massey
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: Potboxes
>Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:28:32 +1000
>
>At 10:30 PM 12/04/07 -0700, Cor van de Water wrote:
>>You can make a 270 deg rotation with the cable itself
>>if you really want:
>>Just take a small diameter pulley and mount that on
>>the pot axle.<snip>
>
>G'day Cor, and All
>
>I actually considered a pulley, I should have mentioned it. What
counted a
>pulley out for me is thoughts of how big the pulley diameter needs to
be
>for the bend radius of the cable, relative to the available movement
of ICE
>throttle cables.
>
>The other thing is that in the low volumes that I'm considering is the
>significantly higher cost to use a pulley over using a lever arm.
One-off
>the cost wouldn't worry me, I'd just turn up one. But in the 20 to 50
>volume that I think would make the lazer cutting of parts viable the
pulley
>cost would become very significant.
>
>Regards
>
>[Technik] James
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>Behalf Of James Massey
>>Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 8:35 PM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Subject: Potboxes
>>
>>G'day All
>>
>>I've been discussing off-list with a couple of guys alternatives to
the
>>Curtis potboxes. The bottom line of the discussion comes to getting
kits
>>of
>>parts laser cut to be able to assemble potboxes similar to the Curtis
>>series
>>of boxes, but with care in the design improve on them. It is not
something
>>I'd expect to make any money out of, more as an item to trade around
for
>>other things that I need, saving me money in other areas.
>>
>>I've never had a close look at any version of the Curtis boxes, but
from
>>the
>>photos and sales guff on-line it seems that it is necessary to define
left
>>or right handed actuation, and wether to have limit switch or not.
>>
>>Another thing I notice is that there is no cable anchor point for the
>>sleeve
>>of the operating cable.
>>
>>So what I see as improvements to the Curtis design is:
>>* Ability to assemble it left or right handed (and dis-assemble it to
>>change
>>it if needed).
>>* A "horn" of some description to mount the cable sleeve to (probably
>>going
>>off both sides to use a straight pull spring for the return spring).
>>* Holes to add a throttle-off limit switch (and a WOT switch if
desired)
>>* Actuator arm consisting of a slotted, infinitely adjustable arm
length
>>that is a pair of arms with the cable in between, rather than one
that is
>>a
>>row of holes.
>>
>>For two-wire systems the pot seems obvious - use a standard,
270-degree,
>>25K-ohm pot and just move it the first 1/5 of the operating range.
>>
>>For 3-wire it gets more complex - either a wire-wound pot that the
wire
>>can
>>be got at in order to "tap" the 1/5 rotation point, or a x5 gear set
to
>>rotate a 5k pot fully.
>>
>>Comments/opinions/flak?
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>[Technik] James
>
_________________________________________________________________
Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3<http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3>
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.4.0/759 - Release Date: 4/12/2007
7:58 PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod,
Not sure I could fathom the "weird quirk of fate" that led a biker brew pub to
spring up right next to your home ;-) As it turns
out the Denny's our EV group winds up at after our meetings has a local
frequenter that usually shows up in his '69 Dodge
SuperBee. He overheard us talking about massive amounts of torque and asks if
the vehicle we were talking about is blown. I told
him that its never been blown but its made a few plasma arcs (nearly blow up),
referring him to the White Zombie. He seemed
slightly interested but still wanted to talk about his Charger, and Roadrunner,
and etc... When the Pinto is done I'll stop by
one day and invite him out to the track, he he. Then there's a guy in my
office who is upgrading the turbo Six in his 14 second
TransAm to a larger turbo. He's expecting 750 HP and low 12's. He frequents
the track all the time anyway and is interested in
running up against an electric :-O I figure I'll have him show me how to work
the track since I'll be a newbie there too.
Anyway, these old geezers have got to be at least 4 or 5 years older than me
too. But aint it great to get people interested?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Roderick Wilde
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 7:42 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Rednecks and EVs
>
>
> Well it is another Friday night and after work I fired up my petrol, non
> environmentally, non carbon neutral,1500 cc V twin Drifter that gets over 50
> MPG due to modifications I have made. OK, no excuses. Anyway, on my way home
> from my regular Friday night stop at our local brew pub I decided to visit
> one of our more well known red neck establishments which just happens to be
> only a few blocks from my home. The reason for this is due to some extremely
> weird quirk of fate because it just happens to be a bar that Tim Brehm's
> sister Miranda works at. As you all know Tim is the driver of John Wayland's
> "White Zombie". Well, anyway, me and Miranda already know each other. I sit
> down next to a wrinkled up older gentleman. He was quite friendly and we
> struck up a conversation. He was from a NASCAR reality and had never heard
> of electric drag racing. The whole conversation was actually quite
> interesting. He had mostly been in the heavy equipment industry. The figures
> I was telling him on electric rag racing were blowing his mind. He was very
> old and very wrinkled. His nose from a sculptural perspective was
> incredible. His nose first spread out and then narrowed. On the end it was
> bulbous with a deep crease in the middle with flared nostrils. He had one of
> the most incredible noses I have ever seen! Oops, oops, way off topic here.
> Sorry. My only excuse is that I used to sculpt human faces. Anyway, back to
> reality, by the time we were done conversing this elderly redneck who was at
> least three years older than me seriously wanted to learn more about
> electric cars.
>
> Roderick
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Recycled? The Greenpeace report, available on the net, is titled, "The Myth of
Automobile Battery Recycling." Read it yet?
Michael Moore says he doesn't recycle because its a fraud.
Revived Battery EV going up long, steep Lions Gate Bridge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ymFIVX9VgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45kPks7UYss
Cheers,
Rob
Nawaz Qureshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi:
Please note:
1. 99% of today's lead acid batteries are recycled: the lead is remelted and
the plastic is converted into chips and reused.
2. The batteries fail mainly because of the positive active material (PAM)
shedding. The charge / discharge cycling changes its morphology
(crystalline) structure such that it turns into finer and finer particles
and the bonding between the crystals is destroyed so that it floats away
from the plates. It cannot be replaced. The PAM is porous lead dioxide
created from electrochemically converting (charging) the pasted plates. The
paste is a formulation of lead oxide, lead metal particles and a few other
additives to improve the plate integrity. The pasted plates are also cured
to improve their life by improving their morphology. Another mode of failure
is the corrosion of grid metal (lead alloy) because lead dioxide is a very
highly oxidizing agent. Because of this the metal eventually gets converted
to the corrosion products and the plate literally falls apart. The oxidation
is substantial retarded by a phenomenon called passivation. Passivation is a
protective layer that forms and consists of lead sulfate, lead dioxide and
lead oxide that retards further corrosion attack but does not and cannot
stop it.
3. The contention that the battery industry purposely make batteries that do
not last long is a myth. The old technology of battery making has improved
by leaps and bounds to give better life and performance. Most battery
companies with any integrity are continuously striving to make batteries
last longer and have improved capacity. It just makes more business sense.
4. The failure modes are many, but all lead acid batteries, like us humans
will eventually die. The heredity and care determine the age.
I would be glad to address any specific questions you might have.
Nawaz Qureshi
-----Original Message-----
From: GWMobile [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 2:08 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: "bulging" case a visual sign of a bad floodie? - Not really
There was and probably still is a small battery charger on the market that
could recharge any battery (even non rechargebales aas etc) and it used a
little processor and it pulsed the charge.
Seems the same could be done with larger batteries.
Is that how your reviver works?
Also lead acid battery shorts are easily fixed. Simply pull the plates, wash
them, drain the bottom of the cell of scale and re ph the solution.
The original electric cars of the 1920's did this all the time.
Only recently did we have the disposable sealed lead acid.
It is a marketing gimmick that requires new purchases.
It is not a technology imposed limit on the batteries.
Lead acid batteires can be reused almost endlessly with those procedures.
Old batteries had hanging lead plates so they could be pulled out by hand
and washed easily or stored for long periods.
Snipped....
Revived Battery EV going up Lions Gate Bridge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ymFIVX9VgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45kPks7UYss
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/14/07, Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Rod Hower wrote:
> If everything looks good I'll crank
> up the current limit to 100Amps to get 5kW.
What does it take to keep on scaling up(not including money)? What
could it ultimately scale up too?
http://www.pwrx.com/Grids.aspx?g=111&m=60
Largest IGBT seven-pack available ( excluding 1200V .. ) is 600V, 300A.
Of course, you are not going to run off 600V, but pulling around 50KW
drive with these should be doable.
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Forgot to mention the prices
IPM itself
http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/wa/wcat/itemdtl.r?listtype=Catalog&pnum=PM300RLA060-PRX
Interface board
http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/wa/wcat/itemdtl.r?listtype=Catalog&pnum=BP7A-LB-PRX
Single unit quantities its $455+$406 ie around $900 with shipping and all that.
Larger than 25> units batches its $377 + $207 or around $600
The DSP/control boards material cost is $50ish or cheaper (
STEVAL-IHM001V1 for example ). So these are major silicon costs of a
300Amp inverter.
The rest is the devil in the details :)
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't believe the hype. Even without reading this report I'm biased to
believe that with the price of lead going up 5x in 5
years ($0.20/lb to $0.98/lb) that 67 lbs of lead in a battery oughtta be worth
recycling, especially with an industrial facility
set up for the purpose :-O
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of robert mat
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 10:55 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: "bulging" case a visual sign of a bad floodie? - Not really
>
>
> Recycled? The Greenpeace report, available on the net, is titled, "The Myth
> of Automobile Battery Recycling." Read it yet?
>
> Michael Moore says he doesn't recycle because its a fraud.
>
> Revived Battery EV going up long, steep Lions Gate Bridge:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ymFIVX9VgA
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45kPks7UYss
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The easiest way to do this is to sell your Saab and purchase a different
vehicle that already has a manual transmission.
Or you can simply swap out the auto tranny for a manual, it doesn't have
to come from a Saab. Since you're going to have to retro fit it anyway,
any transmission will do. Preferably one from a vehicle that is commonly
converted because that will make it easier to get an adapter plate (part
the connects the electric motor to the transmission).
Of course now you also have to add a clutch pedal or do a clutchless
conversion. Clutchless is cheaper, since you don't need to add the pedal
and you can skip the clutch, flywheel, and the flywheel hub adapter($$$).
However, clutchless is a bit more complicated to drive.
Or you can modify your auto-transmssion. Remove the torque converter and
add an oil pump to keep preassure up when the motor is stopped. Change
the shift points, etc. THis is probably the most complicated option, but
other have done this successfully.
Final option, the easiest, keep the auto and live with the reduction in
range and idle the motor when stopped.
As far as I know, nobody sells an general purpose EV transmission.
Solectria and Siemens both offer single speed transaxles that fit specific
motors. This might work for you, though the transmissions are somewhat
expensive and so are the motors they fit. Plus you'd need to fabricate
custom half shafts that fit these transmissions.
While somewhat expensive, these motor/trannies probably offer the highest
efficiency. Plus you get regen. Regen might or might not extend your
range much, but it does help your brakes, and what the heck, it's included
free with these setups.
However, the Solectria motor/transmsisson might be a bit too small for a
Saab.
> For example, I plan to convert my 1988 Saab 900 Turbo this summer, but it
> is an automatic. I understand that an automatic could be used, but that
> efficiencies are lost as compared to a direct drive or a manual
> transmission car.
>
> Are there many vendors that manufacture semi-off-the-shelf gearboxes for
> the EV folks so that I can dispose of my automatic x-mission?
>
> Best regards,
> Pete
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> 2) DC shunt type motors can do regen, also reverse, but require a
>> special controller for both.
>
> I'd say "different" rather than special. The controller for a shunt
> motor is actually simpler than for a series motor. You can switch power
> straight to the armature with contactors, and do all your speed control
> with the field, for instance.
>
>> 3) Curtis does make such a controller, but its only made or only
>> available in low-voltage ( i.e. golf car market) sizes,
>> typically 48 V max.
>
> The Curtis 1221R is a 120v controller.
Isn't the 1221R intended for series wound motors and not shunt/sepex motors?
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not to mention that it's federal law...
----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 3:45:08 AM
Subject: RE: "bulging" case a visual sign of a bad floodie? - Not really
I don't believe the hype. Even without reading this report I'm biased to
believe that with the price of lead going up 5x in 5
years ($0.20/lb to $0.98/lb) that 67 lbs of lead in a battery oughtta be worth
recycling, especially with an industrial facility
set up for the purpose :-O
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of robert mat
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 10:55 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: "bulging" case a visual sign of a bad floodie? - Not really
>
>
> Recycled? The Greenpeace report, available on the net, is titled, "The Myth
> of Automobile Battery Recycling." Read it yet?
>
> Michael Moore says he doesn't recycle because its a fraud.
>
> Revived Battery EV going up long, steep Lions Gate Bridge:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ymFIVX9VgA
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45kPks7UYss
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
while negotiating with the makers of yo-bike (it is an e-scooter
actually) i found out that they fit li-ion battery .. so the
charging should be fast .. real fast .. this fact is not very
widely advertised nor appears on their website
..peekay
(the negotiation for dealership is on the backburner ..
their terms are wierd !)
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 5:50 PM
Subject: EVLN(Pune's no-frills rapid recharging stations)
> EVLN(Pune's no-frills rapid recharging stations)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> http://in.news.yahoo.com/061221/48/6ahqj.html
> Rs 5 & 10 minutes to charge electric bikes
> Friday December 22, 03:58 AM
>
> Kiosks, automatic vending facilities to follow ordinary charging
> stations
>
> In a few months time, a five-rupee coin will be all you need to
> charge up if you own an electric bike and have a base in Pune.
> And this one charge will keep the bike running for 50 km - at a
> time when the next best thing are the 'economy bikes' that claim
> around 90 kms a litre of petrol at a cost of Rs 52. In other
> words the e-bikes are offering an economy of scale that makes it
> five-fold cheaper than the conventional bikes.
>
> The city is likely to get its first rapid charging station by
> January end, followed by vending machines over the next three
> months. The stations will 'fuel up' the vehicles in 7-10 minutes
> as opposed to the 8-hour charging format presently followed.
> While RK Rims, manufacturer of Snappy and Matrix bikes, which has
> sold over 3,000 electric bikes in the city, will be the first to
> set up a charging station, other players like Ace Motors and
> Electrotherm India will follow suit over the next few months.
>
> "We will have our first charging station in Pune as electric
> bikes are very popular here. Stations will be set up at five
> places, starting with one in the Deccan area," said general
> manager (sales and marketing), RK Rims, Dipankar Basu. The
> company will follow up the Pune initiative with stations in
> Kolhapur, Nagpur and Vasai in Mumbai.
>
> While RK Rims is going in for no-frills recharging stations, Ace
> Motors is going in for vending machines and kiosks. The company,
> which will start rapid charging services in the next few months,
> is looking at unique revenue sharing models. "We are planning to
> set up small kiosks at different place like STD booths, general
> stores, shopping malls and cinema halls where customers can get
> their vehicles recharged at ease," managing director of
> Pune-based Ace Motors, Kumar Raval said.
>
> The kiosks would be followed by automatic vending machines
> working on the same principle as coin operated telephone booths.
> "The user can go to vending machine, put in a coin and get the
> vehicle recharged within 10 minutes," Raval said.
>
> Other manufacturer are scouting for locations and evaluating the
> feasibility of different business models. "We are evaluating
> places where the charging stations can be set up. As most people
> now charge their bikes at home during night, we are looking at
> possible alternative locations for day time charging options," an
> Electrotherm India representative said. The company, which
> manufactures 'Yo Bikes', has sold over 20,000 units in nine
> states across the country.
>
> While manufacturers say such charging stations are the way of the
> future, they admit more users are needed to make the concept
> succeed. "We need to have more that 5,000 vehicles in the market
> before successfully running charging stations. The concept will
> take some time to catch up," Basu said.
>
> However, world leaders in the technology are already sure what
> the future holds for this segment. "A concept being proposed in
> China is a multipurpose wind powered charging kiosk and street
> light. The same pole would have streetlights and also charging
> points for electric two wheelers," president of the World
> Electric Vehicle Association, Dr C C Chan said at the electric
> and hybrid vehicles conference on electric and hybrid vehicles
> held earlier this week in the city.
>
> Copyright © 2006 Yahoo Web Services India Pvt Ltd. All rights
> reserved.
> -
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> ===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/598 - Release Date:
22/12/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hello robert
can you elaborate a bit .. i guess you ARE talking from
real life experience
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "robert mat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> If you've been watching an ammeter carefully, you can see how its possible
to reduce amps by ~80% at little cost in speed, by coasting, once the EV has
gone up to speed (assuming no regen brakes. My motor is an Advanced 9 inch.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm just the nosey wife of a lurker, but hasn't anyone noticed that
Greenpeace report is already almost 15 years out of date? Conditions
may be worse, better, or the same -- but a lot of changes have taken
place everywhere in 15 years. From what I've observed, the EV world
has certainly morphed in that time.
On Apr 14, 2007, at 3:45 AM, Mike Willmon wrote:
I don't believe the hype. Even without reading this report I'm
biased to believe that with the price of lead going up 5x in 5
years ($0.20/lb to $0.98/lb) that 67 lbs of lead in a battery
oughtta be worth recycling, especially with an industrial facility
set up for the purpose :-O
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of robert mat
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 10:55 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: "bulging" case a visual sign of a bad floodie? - Not
really
Recycled? The Greenpeace report, available on the net, is titled,
"The Myth of Automobile Battery Recycling." Read it yet?
Michael Moore says he doesn't recycle because its a fraud.
Revived Battery EV going up long, steep Lions Gate Bridge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ymFIVX9VgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45kPks7UYss
Cheers,
Rob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A couple of Eagles on eBay this AM - dead batteriesneed to be replaced -
good starters for someone in the Orlando, FL area. Item #180106819742
is one of them.
Joe
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, from experience. We discovered this years ago, and called it "throttle
blipping" on Currie ebikes. (Said to be hard on chain-stretch, though.)
Observation, not physics: When the etruck is up to desired speed, lighten up on
the throttle, watch amps drop ~80%. Because of mass of vehicle, speed is almost
the same, usually to the next stoplight.
EV run from Revived Batteries - Ammerter - Lions Gate Bridge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45kPks7UYss
peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: hello robert
can you elaborate a bit .. i guess you ARE talking from
real life experience
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "robert mat"
> If you've been watching an ammeter carefully, you can see how its possible
to reduce amps by ~80% at little cost in speed, by coasting, once the EV has
gone up to speed (assuming no regen brakes. My motor is an Advanced 9 inch.)
Revived Battery EV going up Lions Gate Bridge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ymFIVX9VgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45kPks7UYss
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It looks like GM, in all its infinite wisdom, has taken the VOLT
Vote down. They did so just as the vote was fast approaching the half million
mark. On April 7 I took snap shot of the survey and it stood at just under
450,000 votes tallied of which 446,118 said that GM should build the VOLT and
another 445,187 voters said to GM that they would buy the vehicle if it were
made. Big, big numbers to say the least, however, I was hoping that the vote
would reach the psychological milestone of 500,000. There is just no denying a
number like half a million votes. If GM ever says there isn’t enough demand for
alternative fuel vehicles remind them that they can use their fingers and their
toes to count. Read on for action.
The psychological symbol of going over a half a million I
think was too great for GM to simply let stand. It could virtually eliminate
their ability to deny that there is sufficient demand for ultra fuel efficient
vehicles and vehicles that operate on alternative fuels. Their willingness to
remove the Volt vote speaks volumes about GM’s commitment to putting into the
market place innovations that have the highest possibility of saving us from
the wild price swings of being attached to one source of fuel for our
automobiles. Prices for gasoline in my area as of April 13, 2007 were at
approximately $3.00 a gallon. We
need to press upon GM and the other automakers that we as consumers want these
greener products.
So here is what we are going to do. What we are going to do
is to talk directly to GM through their Chevrolet Contact Us page. We are going
to ask GM to put the Volt vote site back up, of course maintaining the votes
already cast. To do this go to the Web address below and put something like
this in the message:
“I want buy a vehicle
like the Volt that uses clean electricity most of the time, but has the ability
to operate continuously through the use of a generator allowing me to go long
distances. Please put the Volt Vote site back up so that I can register my
vote.”
http://www.chevrolet.com/contactus/getinformation/
PS. If any of you were able to capture a screen shot of the
Volt Vote after the 7th and before they took it off the website
please show us what the final numbers were. Thank you. JL
--- End Message ---
