EV Digest 6677
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Lithium batteries & safety
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(Miles Javlon EV $30k, 150mi range, 80mph in 2008)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Killacycle comes to the Wayland Invitational III
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Lithium batteries & safety
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Breaking in a new pack
by "Roger Daisley @ R J Ranch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Lithium batteries (was: Re: Excellent GM Volt video)
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Transmission Choice
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Excellent GM Volt video
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Lithium batteries & safety
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: Electric lawn mower
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Killacycle comes to the Wayland Invitational III
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Excellent GM Volt video
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) electric mower /list bug
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Last Call Lee Hart Battery balancer mail thread
by John RA Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Last Call Lee Hart Battery balancer mail thread
by John RA Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) darn press!
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) article: SPY PHOTOS: Tesla Roadster
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) DJ-5E
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: article: SPY PHOTOS: Tesla Roadster
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Excellent GM Volt video
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: article: SPY PHOTOS: Tesla Roadster
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: article: SPY PHOTOS: Tesla Roadster
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: darn press!
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Excellent GM Volt video
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: wrapping up the regen discussion
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: "largish" brushless motors available
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: ACIM power
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/19/07, Osmo S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So, I did a nail puncture test with fully charged cells at 60 degree
Celsius (140 F). Both Kokam 40 Ah High Power cell and A123 caught
quite an agressive fire, that lasted several minutes. That would
propably make the other cells of the pack to catch a fire also.
Woah, hold on there, A123 has repeatedly claimed that their cells wont
catch fire when punctured.
http://www.google.com/search?q=a123+nail+test
Are you saying you have proven otherwise ?
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Miles Javlon EV $30k, 150mi range, 80mph in 2008)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1228
Miles Automotive Introduces Javlon Electric Car
By Bill Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Exclusive EV World Premium video interview with Miles Automotive
[ http://milesautomotive.com ] fleet sales manager I. Zion Enos.
Premium Feature Article Originally Published: April 16, 2007
[PHOTO CAPTION:
http://www.evworld.com/images/miles_javlon.jpg
Built in Miles Automotive's Tianjin, China factory, the
Corolla-sized Javlon is likely to be the first all-electric,
highway-capable sedan to go on sale in America in as little as 18
months time. Range will be 150 miles on per charge, top speed will
be 85 mph and the target price between $29 and $31,000 dollars, not
including various federal and state incentives and rebates.]
You can't help but respect and admire a guy with eight names you
can't pronounce and who decides to use Biblical names instead.
That was my introduction to I. Zion Enos, who explained to me that
since he is Hawaiian and has eight unpronounceable names, unless
you're fluent in Hawaiian beyond "aloha", he chose to use names
from the Bible that most closely match the meaning of his name in
his native language.
Enos was the point man for Miles Automotive electric car display at
the AFVi conference + expo in Anaheim earlier this month. The booth
boasted three vehicles, the ZX40 and the OR70, the later of which
turns out to be not quite as "highway-capable" as we here at EV
World had assumed.
It has a top speed of 40 mph (the web site says 35), which puts it
in a sort of limbo between a NEV and a fully-compliant, highway
vehicle. What that means in terms of its ultimate market niche I
didn't explore, but the OR, which stands for "Off Road" suggests it
will be a campus cruiser with 10-15 mph higher speed than the
NEV-classed 40.
Copyright 1998-2007, EVWorld.com, Inc. All rights reserved.
Non-subscriber content on EV World may be freely distributed with
the only stipulation being that EV World be credited and a link is
provided back to the site. Some portions of this website require a
$29.00US annual subscription. EVWorld.com, Inc. - P.O. Box 461132 -
Papillion, Nebraska 68046 USA. Direct all correspondence to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey John,
Are there details posted anywhere telling the times for the EVents at PIR for
the Wayland Invitational III? Does your invite
coincide with what PIR calls the "Street Legals" and "Les Schwabies Late
Nights"?
I look on the PIR page and see this schedule:
<snip>
July
4 National Dragster Challenge Drags 9am 103 dBA
11 PIRD E.T. Drags Jrs 4pm 103 dBA
13 Street Legal (Quick 16 & St. Bike Challenge) 5pm 90 dBA
14 Les Schwab Tires Late Night Drags 6pm 90 dBA
<end snip>
I also gather there's the Breakfast and Show & Shine at Village Inn 10301 Se
Stark St
Portland, OR. What time does gathering begin?
Making my reservations now :-))
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of John Wayland
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 5:11 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Killacycle comes to the Wayland Invitational III
>
>
> Hello to All,
>
> The NEDRA sanctioned 'Wayland Invitational III' is scheduled for a two
> day run this year, July 13-14, Friday and Saturday, at Portland
> International Raceway (PIR). This is going to be one great EVent! As the
> title suggests, I 'invite' other electric drag racers to come help me
> beat up a few gas cars :-), but of course, everyone's automatically invited.
>
> I 'did' make a personal call though, to Bill Dube' and gave he and his
> crew the invite...they accepted! This July folks in the Pacific NW will
> be treated to the world's quickest accelerating street legal electric
> sedan 'and' the world's quickest accelerating electric
> motorcycle....both at the track together!
>
> With the April issue of Hot Rod magazine featuring Bill's bike, and the
> May issue of Car and Driver right around the corner featuring Rod Wilde
> and his Gone Postal, Father Time and his drag bike, Otmar and his 914
> Porsche, and their own Ted West with White Zombie, there's enough press
> circulating to get folks pumped up about seeing some seriously fast EVs
> at the track! I can hardly wait to watch stunned race fans salivate over
> an electric vehicle scorching down the track in 8 seconds!
>
> In addition to Bill's machine, there's going to be other really quick
> EVs, plus lots of street EVs on display as well. The traditional
> 'Electric Breakfast' will happen on Saturday, which includes the EV show
> & shine EVent at the Village Inn restaurant.
> I will also make sure to have press coverage before and after this EVent
> as well, so its likely that articles will follow.
>
> 2007 marks the 10 year anniversary of NEDRA, and I'm pulling out all the
> stops for this EVent! If anyone wants to have a fun two day vacation,
> this is one you might want to book a flight into Portland for. It's
> starting to feel like 1997 all over again!
>
> Gotta go...I've got more phone calls to make.
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
> PS: Jim, tell your mama you're booked that weekend!
>
>
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Yes, that´s what happened. I have the Kokam fire on video, but of
course I ran out of the video tape just before the A123 test.. But I
have a picture of the burned cell (and the ones I overcharged,
resulting only smoke):
http://www.havina.fi/a123.htm
Osmo
Kaido Kert kirjoitti 19.4.2007 kello 10.14:
On 4/19/07, Osmo S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So, I did a nail puncture test with fully charged cells at 60 degree
Celsius (140 F). Both Kokam 40 Ah High Power cell and A123 caught
quite an agressive fire, that lasted several minutes. That would
propably make the other cells of the pack to catch a fire also.
Woah, hold on there, A123 has repeatedly claimed that their cells wont
catch fire when punctured.
http://www.google.com/search?q=a123+nail+test
Are you saying you have proven otherwise ?
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A recent entry talked about breaking in a new battery pack. Since my
conversion won't be up and running for a couple of months, (I can't seem to
get my supplier to send me the parts I ordered and paid for in January) I
had thought it a good idea to wait on the battery order (16 x US-125's)
until just before they are needed.
Based upon the "break-in" recommendations, I wonder if it might be a good
idea to get the pack now and rig up some sort of "soft break-in" setup, such
as an electrical heater that won't tax the pack too much.
Would running them through several easy charge/discharge cycles be a good
idea to get them broken in for road use? Any suggestions, recommendations or
experience?
/Roger Daisley, Pullman, WA
Ps: See you at the Wenatchee "PowerUp."
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Lee;
This will be a daily driver, but I'm hoping for decent performance.
I totally agree with you that for racing, I would need to go a different
route.
Probably go direct drive with a beefy rear end.
I don't think I'm ready for that yet, so I think I'll stay with the
stocker, and try to keep my foot out of it as much as possible.
Thanks;
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:51 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Transmission Choice
Pestka, Dennis J wrote:
> I'm considering using a different transmission in my 1965 Datsun
> pickup conversion. My fear is getting parts for the stock 65 if I tear
> up anything. The ICE is only rated at 60 HP, and I don't really know
> how bulletproof the transmission is.
I converted a 1974 Datsun pickup, with the stock transmission and
hydraulic clutch. I used an aircraft starter/generator and contactor
controller, so some of the starts were pretty brutal (it would easily
spin the tires). In the two years I drove it, I never had any problems
with the clutch or transmission.
> I'm looking at a 9" Advanced with 1200A Raptor controller.
These parts are going to be capable of producing some *serious* torque.
Especially given the age of the transmission, I think I would worry
about breaking it, too. Is this a daily driver EV, or a go-fast racing
EV?
For a daily driver, I'd turn down the current limit on the controller to
limit torque, and leave the stock transmission and clutch.
For racing, or to use the full output current of the controller, I think
you'll have to replace the transmission (and perhaps the rear axle) with
something significantly stronger.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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$2 a cell! I wish. I haven't found anyone that will even talk to me
about those kinds of prices.(yet) When I talked to A123 they were very
hard to get any info out of. I wanted about 150 cells without tabs to
prototype with and they couldn't(wouldn't?) quote me. After all the
dancing around I realized they really only have the kits or huge orders,
the tabs are not put on locally. The state side sales guy is stuck.
Maybe someday we will see a distributer.
A123 is not the only game in town, just first. Other manufacturers are
coming online this summer. Some might make the observation that these
are Chinese battery companies, but for that matter so is A123. When
there are 4 or 5 manufactures, the prices will have to drop.
I love the A123 cells specs, NO-ONE has specs quiet like theirs. I am
just realizing that the specs may be overkill and not worth the primium.
On those batteries at ev-world, does anyone know if there is any BMS in
those modules?
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Hello to All.
Mike Willmon wrote:
Hey John,
Are there details posted anywhere telling the times for the EVents at PIR for the Wayland Invitational III?
Yes, at the NEDRA page for 'Upcoming EVents'.
Does your invite
coincide with what PIR calls the "Street Legals" and "Les Schwabies Late
Nights"?
Yes, it does...EVs vs gassers, lots of fun!
I look on the PIR page and see this schedule:
July
13 Street Legal (Quick 16 & St. Bike Challenge) 5pm 90 dBA
14 Les Schwab Tires Late Night Drags 6pm 90 dBA
<end snip>
Correct. Both nights will be heads up style drag racing.
I also gather there's the Breakfast and Show & Shine at Village Inn 10301 Se
Stark St
Portland, OR. What time does gathering begin?
As posted at the above mentioned page, 9:00 AM.
Making my reservations now :-))
I'm very excited you are coming! We're going to have a great time.
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/19/07, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
$2 a cell! I wish. I haven't found anyone that will even talk to me
about those kinds of prices.(yet) ..
You dont happen to have friends in China ? If they manage to sell
lithium-powered e-bikes for $100 there, im sure the battery packs and
cells cant be all that expensive.
The cheapest i have found in english-speaking world is £500 for a lithium ebike.
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Hey! great video Steve. I have been hoping for a video of you electric lawn
equipment!
Now that's what I'm talking about!
Ken
Hi Ken , ya it only took me 6 months to get it up on youtube , I also converted
my edger and plug it into the lawn mower , so its also running off the 400 amp
curtis ( I trun off the mower motor when using ), I thing I can say it's
probable the most powerful edger in the world.
When I hit the reply botton to reply to your post , your post disapeared and
this was what I saw
Steve Clunn
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: 2007/04/19 Thu AM 09:20:02 EDT
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Electric lawn mower
>
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>
> From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2007/04/19 Thu AM 08:49:59 EDT
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Excellent GM Volt video
>
> $2 a cell! I wish. I haven't found anyone that will even talk to me
> about those kinds of prices.(yet) When I talked to A123 they were very
> hard to get any info out of. I wanted about 150 cells without tabs to
> prototype with and they couldn't(wouldn't?) quote me. After all the
> dancing around I realized they really only have the kits or huge orders,
> the tabs are not put on locally. The state side sales guy is stuck.
> Maybe someday we will see a distributer.
>
> A123 is not the only game in town, just first. Other manufacturers are
> coming online this summer. Some might make the observation that these
> are Chinese battery companies, but for that matter so is A123. When
> there are 4 or 5 manufactures, the prices will have to drop.
>
> I love the A123 cells specs, NO-ONE has specs quiet like theirs. I am
> just realizing that the specs may be overkill and not worth the primium.
>
> On those batteries at ev-world, does anyone know if there is any BMS in
> those modules?
>
>
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On 4/19/07 7:01 AM, "John RA Benson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm happy to cough up a down payment to verify interest/confirm order and get
> the ball rolling. Just need to know how much $ and where to send the dough.
>
> Cheers
> JRAB
>
> On 4/19/07 12:04 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> We have gone one month and it is time to now to place the order. I have sent
>> this on to any groups that I thought would be interested.
>>
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http://newsminer.com/2007/04/19/6555/
Well, I tried... but they still mess up the facts...
enjoy!
Michael Golub
Fairbanks, AK
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
The Tesla Roadster in testing somewhere in the snow:
http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/spyphotoID/6070419.002/page/1/country/acf/general_acf/spy-photos-tesla-roadster
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
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That would be in northern Sweden, made me all homesick watching it.
Here's a couple of videos
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/01/26/video-of-the-tesla-roadster-testing-on-ice/
On 4/19/07, Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The Tesla Roadster in testing somewhere in the snow:
http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/spyphotoID/6070419.002/page/1/country/acf/general_acf/spy-photos-tesla-roadster
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You know, it always happens. People bash a corporation for doing
something wrong and those 'defenders of the marketplace' come in and
accuse us of being conspiracy theorists.
Well it -was- a conspiracy, by the strict definition of the word. We
know that for certain. And if it was all about money, then GM would
have sold off its last EV1s to buyers, not crushed them in order that
people wouldn't see them on the street and demand more of them. Do you
know, they are saying now that the reason they did that was because
"there are no parts available for the cars and we didn't want to leave
them on the road because they wouldn't be safe". Yep. Keep in mind,
these are the guys who are still making hot rod parts for muscle cars.
Gotta love that. Well there are no parts available because GM won't
MAKE the parts available. And who cares anyway? Third parties could
have easily provided maintenance. Anyhoo....
Back to battery basics. Let me try to make this as clear as I can.
I do NOT think that batteries priced AS THEY ARE TODAY are
particularly cost effective. $/wh wise in a light package. That
includes NiMH and Lithium chemistries.
However, I do know how fast prices come down when production runs
start exponentially multiplying, and I do know that if GM had stuck
with their program at the VERY LEAST the NiMH battery technology would
have come down four fold in price in 5 years or less, even faster if
they jumpstarted it with some capital investment and got an inside
price. (Please don't yell about the price of nickel.. large
organizations routinely hedge against resource price flux by buying
commodity options, plus the Nickel in the batteries is recyclable).
They also could have spent some money on investing in battery
chemistry, not selling it off to Chevron and not instructing the
inventor of the battery to NEVER advertise or speak about the battery
technology.
No, the first run of EV1s were not profitable.. even a blind gorilla
knows that. However it would have been profitable after a few years..
but not profitable ENOUGH for the folks at GM to want to endorse it.
They knew that people would eat these cars up once they became
available, they knew that battery chemistry would provide the holy
'300 mile' range in less than 6 years if it was aggressively pursued.
They also knew that even if it were a niche market car, which they
have MANY of already, that it would seriously fuel the demand for more
and more of their standard models to become electric, until they no
longer had an income from their parts market, and their dealers no
longer made any money from repairs.
Game over. THATS why they killed it, mate. the EV1 was a great
product, and it could have been profitable. GM and others just didn't
want to let go of all that extra income that making crappy ICE engines
provides them. Although I am a believer in a free and fair market, I
do not think that wanton greed should replace our health, safety and
national security interests.
As far as those people who say batteries are too expensive, invest in
a battery company! I know I am!
--- End Message ---
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Ohhh
batteries so powerfull they start on cold mornings...
Oh Wow...Lead works down to about 20 below...
I really wish the press would get the copy right....
EVs will always start... that's not our drawback....
Gassers just don't get it.. Does your grage door opener work at 40 Below??
Yep.
Does your lap top boot at 40 below...er...... one way to find out!
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Wujek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:22 AM
Subject: article: SPY PHOTOS: Tesla Roadster
> The Tesla Roadster in testing somewhere in the snow:
>
>
http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/spyphotoID/6070419.002/page/1/country/acf/general_acf/spy-photos-tesla-roadster
>
> --
> Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
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If you look at the camera car shadow on the ground, you will see it's a
another car following the Tesla, which may be a ICE. How many of you run a
vehicle over crunching ice on a lake which may had ice studs on the tires.
This also makes a sound like this.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: article: SPY PHOTOS: Tesla Roadster
> That would be in northern Sweden, made me all homesick watching it.
> Here's a couple of videos
> http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/01/26/video-of-the-tesla-roadster-testing-on-ice/
>
>
> On 4/19/07, Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The Tesla Roadster in testing somewhere in the snow:
> >
> > http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/spyphotoID/6070419.002/page/1/country/acf/general_acf/spy-photos-tesla-roadster
> >
> > --
> > Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
>
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"His upkeep consists of a $20 battery brusher every 80,000 miles, new
batteries every three years and water for the battery cases every season."
Battery brusher? =)
mike golub wrote:
http://newsminer.com/2007/04/19/6555/
Well, I tried... but they still mess up the facts...
enjoy!
Michael Golub
Fairbanks, AK
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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RAV4 EVs have gone 400,000 miles... Panasonic NiMH batteries
damon henry wrote:
And the price of one of those battery packs was... if it is somewhere
in the $20K-$30K range, there goes your selling like hotcakes theory.
The batteries for these RAV4 EVs were of course produced in very low
quantities, so the price was very high. The cost of designing and
testing them, tooling for production, etc. had to be spread over a very
small number of batteries.
When engineers want to know the cost of something in *mass production*,
they look at the cost of the materials and labor used to make it. Once
you're making them by the million, all other costs (research,
development, tooling, factor setup, licensing, legal, etc.) shrink to an
insignificant fraction.
The nimh battery uses nickel as its most expensive ingredient.
Everything else is either cheap, or used in very low quantities. So, a
very quick and dirty way to estimate the ultimate price is by looking at
the price of nickel. At the moment, nickel sells for about $23 per
pound. So, a mass-produced 60 pound nimh EV95 battery would sell for
$1380 each.
As a comparison, consider a lead-acid battery. Here, the lead is the
most expensive ingredient. Lead is currently selling for $0.90/pound. So
a mass-produced 60 pound golf cart battery would cost $0.90 x 60 = $54
each. Pretty close for a quick estimate!
Note that the battery isn't 100% lead or nickel; these materials
actually represent less than half the total weight. But we also didn't
include the cost of the other materials, labor to make the battery,
profit, shipping, or other costs. But in the end, it averages out.
Then of course, you get the nickel back when you recycle the battery at
its end of life. A dead nicad or nimh battery is pretty valuable just
for its scrap metal!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Lee Hart wrote:
I used this method on my first EV, with a 36v battery pack and
aircraft 30v 500a starter/generator. Field control alone ran it
from about 2000-8000 rpm. You had to start the motor with the
clutch depressed, and use the clutch to get going smoothly.
Torque at high rpm was also pretty feeble, so it wouldn't go
over about 40 mph.
Paul G. wrote:
This could be great if I could find a suitable sep-ex motor. I'd
like to run about 120 volts or a little more worth of AGM batteries,
have an acceptable "idle speed" (2000 rpm would be fine but 1500 rpm
would be better), and eliminate the voltage steps (apply the full
120 or so volts to the armature for the idle.)
Field control alone is only good for about a 4:1 speed range. If you
wind a motor for 1500 rpm at full field, you'd only get about 6000 rpm
at 1/4 field. Is that fast enough for you?
The other problem is that torque is proportional to field current; at
1/4 field you only have 1/4 the torque. You can make up for this to some
extent with higher armature current, but that causes other problems
(lower efficiency, more brush arcing).
A field controlled motor like this is basically a constant-horsepower
drive. If it's a 10hp motor, you can get that 10hp over the entire speed
range, 1500-6000 rpm. This works if that's all the HP you need.
But most people would rather have a very high peak horsepower, far in
excess of the motor's nameplate average HP. This is what you can get
with a series motor, where putting it straight across the battery can
give you high current *and* high armature voltage simultaneously (at low
rpm). Series motor have this strong "tilt" in the speed-vs-horsepower
curves; very high HP at low speed, very low HP at high speeds, and rated
HP somewhere in the middle.
Another EV with a series wound DC motor is easy. A higher voltage basic
shunt control EV would be cool and offer me some new challenges in my
'66 Datsun project. I have no idea where to even look to find the
appropriate motor (more efficient and higher voltage than an easily
available aircraft motor/generator.)
Well, here are a couple thoughts.
I have two Westinghouse motor-generators, one marked 7.5hp and one 15hp,
though they are identical. Both consist of a 240/480vac 60hz 3-phase
induction motor directly coupled to a 240vdc DC motor/generator that has
both series and shunt fields. Nominal speed is 3500 rpm. They were used
for emergency power at an industrial plant. When AC was available, the
induction motor ran, and the DC machine was used as a generator with
field control to charge a 240vdc bank of batteries. When AC power was
lost, the DC machine was run as a motor, and the AC machine was used as
an induction generator to supply 240/480vac 3-phase power.
Contact me off-list if you'd like to buy one of these to experiment. I'd
separate the DC motor/generator, and use it as your shunt traction
motor. It's specifically designed for high voltage DC motor and
generator operation, and has interpoles.
Second, you can have an existing series motor rewound with a shunt
field. I'd suggest an old forklift motor, as they seem to have more room
for field windings. I'd use a 4-pole motor, and replace 2 of the pole
windings with your shunt field; that way, you can run it as a series
motor, or a shunt generator for regen.
Warning; expect very high voltages on the shunt winding! There will be
something like a 100:1 turns ratio between the series and shunt fields.
If you use this with a PWM controller, which puts (say) 60v pulses on
the field, there can be *6000 volt* pulses on the unloaded shunt winding!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Jeff Major wrote:
I wonder if anyone ever melted a rotor on a Solectria or GM EV1.
I think those had aluminum rotors.
The EV1 rotor I saw had copper windings, for precisely this reason. I
don't know what Solectria used.
Old induction motors frequently had copper windings. The idea of molding
aluminum windings in place is relatively recent, and done as a cost
saving measure; not to improve performance. I suspect it won't be long
before I see one cast with pot metal (random scrap) because aluminum is
getting expensive.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
How do you know if a motor has NEMA-A rotor or NEMA-B rotor?
It's often on the nameplate. The manufacturer's data sheet will tell you
too, of course.
Another hint is the nameplate rpm. If a 2-pole motor says:
- 3500 rpm or more is probably NEMA A
- 3450 rpm is probably NEMA B
- 3400 rpm or less is probably NEMA C or D
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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