EV Digest 6708
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Range question
by "David Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Jetta Progress
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) We need your EV articles!
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: car (and current) surges while driving
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Range question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: DOD question - new/old debate
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Dead start acceleration issues
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: DOD question - new/old debate
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Dead start acceleration issues
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Range question
by "Freddie Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: corvette conversion
by Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Jetta Progress
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) ADC 6.7 redline and how to measure it.
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) One for the City El Drivers...
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: corvette conversion
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 27 Apr 2007 at 6:07, murdoch wrote:
> I have bought and tested one $40 LED bulb and verified their extreme
> energy savings (though their color and brightness leave a lot to be
> desired, at first glance).
Exactly. Household LED lighting saves energy - by being dim.
LEDs are outstanding as indicators. They are good when you need red, green,
yellow, or blue light. But there are better devices for illuminating things
with lots of white light. In the home, you use fluorescents; for vehicle
headlights, you use HID lamps.
Someday, LEDs may be contenders. There are now white LEDs under development
which reportedly approach compact fluorescents in efficacy. I don't think
they've yet quite topped the most efficient linear fluorescents, but I could
be wrong about that. In any case, these are laboratory prototypes. Even if
you could buy them, you probably couldn't afford them.
The best white LEDs that normal mortals can afford today are, surprisingly,
not that much more efficient than incandescents in any application where
you'd use an incandescent bulb of 40 watts or higher. That is to say, the
good ones are somewhat more efficient than incandescents, but they don't
return anything like the efficacy of the best affordable fluorescents or HID
lamps.
It's been a while since I've done the calculations, but I'm pretty sure I
found a few years back that some of the cheap white LEDs, when used for
normal illumination levels (400 lumens or more), were actually LESS
efficient than incandescents!
But this is all just about immaterial for us. The energy to operate the
headlights in an EV is trivial compared to the energy to keep the vehicle
moving down the road. Incandescent headlights consume about 110 watts;
driving at 45mph consumes 7,000 to 10,000 watts. You are talking, at most,
1.5% of the energy for the headlights. It's just not worth the hassle.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My rule of thumb is about 800 lbs of lead batteries is equal to about 1
gal of gasoline. So if you have a total of 1600 lbs of batteries how
far could you go on two gallons of gas?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Freddie Hartsell
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 10:38 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Range question
I am still new at this and I am trying to figure out some type of
numbers
for my real range on my truck.
History - 1991 Dodge Dakota pickup, Warp 9 motor, Curtis 1231C-8601, 24
Interstate 2400 batteries for a 144 VDC pack, weight of truck 4248 lbs.
I just drove the truck in town with the batteries fully charged at
around
162 vdc. I went a total of 28.1 miles round trip and the pack voltage
was
setting at 146 vdc resting when I got back home. My question is can I
use
this information to calculate a maximum range or at least calculate how
much
of my battery pack voltage was left after the 28.1 miles. The truck was
still strong when I pulled into the driveway and it was showing no signs
of
slowing down. Now I drive the truck for range. I mean that I do not
drive
it hard or fast. I try to stay up with traffic and stay close to the
posted
speed. I monitor the amp and volt meters while I am driving and I try
to
keep the amp meter as low as possible and make sure that I do not sag
the
battery pack too hard. Most of my driving was 45 mph or less but about
9
miles of this trip was country roads where I got up to 55 mph. Is this
information relevant in trying to calculate range?
Thanks, Freddie
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peter an' All;
That was just about all of it. Godamn Outlook Distress mail pogram! I
DIDN"t "Repost" it, like it sez.That was a origional. So sick of Micro
Sloth!The stupid excuses you get EVERY damn time you log on, and the hoops
you have to jump through to just get your E mail and surf a bit!!!Guess I
gotta get a Mac?
Talking about comercial success doing conversions? Hell! I woulda
starved to death doing any more like the LAST one!There ARE Listers doing it
commercially, on here, though. They are doing S-10's I think, so they have
standardised the process. Each one is pretty much like the last one, they
make their own adapter plates couplings etc, saving piles of money
there.Batteries are getting rediculously expensive, 75 and 95 bux EACH, last
quote!Doing Led Sleds is getting rather pricy!
Being retired I figure I could roll out a few conversions as a hobby,
break even or to make a few bux?One sits waiting for controller repair,I had
to all but rebuild that one! DIDN'T have to go the spring Opera, LAST guy
did that, it sits and rides fine!I built the batteries into the trunk in a
box, so you still have a trunk. Youse guyz that have scene that, know the
gig? That will be the standard setup I'll do in my following conversions.
Whatthehell good is a trunk ya can't use?? My OTHER Raptures don't do
ANYTHING, It will cost bux and time to fix them? The lead time on getting
OTHER stuff, makes it a lengthy process.
With Jetta useble I can talk my walk, on EV's Yes I drive one, do shows
and tells , like tomorrow.
Will turn to the 97 Sentra, I guess. The Rat's nest of wires in the
engine compartment. The motor tranny plate is made, gotta figure out a new
motor mount setup. Will I need new hevier springs??Lottsa stuff to figure
in. Put one of the other Raptures in that one, save some cash for the damn
batteries.Figure out a heating system, charging setup, on and on.Put the
battery racks in.
This AM will put the DC to dc converter, a Sevcon, in, so I'll have all
my " Stuff" in the car, so I can plug and play.Woo Hoo!
Seeya at Middletown tomorrow?!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
The Uk-based BVS (Battery Vehicle Society) is about to start work on
a new magazine for the society. Unlike the current "Battery Vehicle
Review" which is a very technical journal this magazine (which we're
going to call "Plugged") will have articles aimed at everyone from
those who are considering buying an EV through to those who have
converted their own or who are really into the technical stuff.
The magazine (we hope) will contain a buyers guide and information
about all the UK available EVs as well as world and UK EV news,
features on specific cars and owners, green lifestyle and
sustainability, and also have an in-depth technical section (and a
beginner's EV tech section too).
The magazine will be professionally printed and be available to
members of the BVS as well as being sold on some of our stands over
the summer. It'll be launched at the start of July.
Deadlines for the July/August edition are at the end of May, so if
you have some interesting articles or stories you'd like to share -
or perhaps some good photographs or news please contact me off list.
And keep plugged!
Nikki
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good idea.
Funny, some habits never die. I used to do this every time to start my 1968
Chevy 327 with a Carter AFB on it (never bothered with a choke). 3 pumps of
the accelerator pump, wait 5 seconds for the gas puddle to vaporize, turn
the key.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "rod dilkes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 2:43 AM
Subject: Re: car (and current) surges while driving
You might like to try this:
With the car OFF put your foot on the accelerator pedal and push it all the
way down. Do this 10 times. You could also do it by manually actuating the
pot box arm all the way to full throttle.
Then try the car again.
Sometimes the contacts on the pot get dirty and wiping the arm all the way
seems to clean them. EVers tend to be light on the gas so never usually use
the whole extent of the throttle.
Do this three times every 10 rides or so. It works for me...
Regards, Rod Dilkes
www.ev-power.com.au
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Freddie,
The following is some calculations you can do, that will give you a range:
www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/lab/8679/equations.html
or input your data in:
http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalulator.html
which will auto calculated the data you input.
After you built your EV, use the running data a E-metal will display. For
example, my EV on a certain course uses 3.5 ah per mile. My batteries are
260 ah/3.5 = 74.2 miles if I discharge down to 0% DOD. At 50% DOD this would
be about 37 miles.
Another calculator that someone listed to this list is:
Range = (ah x .57 x V)/watts per mile which is about 41.6 miles for me.
Using the above geocities Uve's Electric Vehicle Calculator, the range is
display in each gear which is displays at 0% DOD.
The range for me at 50% DOD in 1st gear is 83 miles
2nd gear is 66 miles
3rd gear is 38 miles
So you see all three calculators are very close.
Roland
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Freddie Hartsell
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 10:38 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Range question
>
> I am still new at this and I am trying to figure out some type of
> numbers
> for my real range on my truck.
>
>
>
> History - 1991 Dodge Dakota pickup, Warp 9 motor, Curtis 1231C-8601, 24
> Interstate 2400 batteries for a 144 VDC pack, weight of truck 4248 lbs.
>
>
>
> I just drove the truck in town with the batteries fully charged at
> around
> 162 vdc. I went a total of 28.1 miles round trip and the pack voltage
> was
> setting at 146 vdc resting when I got back home. My question is can I
> use
> this information to calculate a maximum range or at least calculate how
> much
> of my battery pack voltage was left after the 28.1 miles. The truck was
> still strong when I pulled into the driveway and it was showing no signs
> of
> slowing down. Now I drive the truck for range. I mean that I do not
> drive
> it hard or fast. I try to stay up with traffic and stay close to the
> posted
> speed. I monitor the amp and volt meters while I am driving and I try
> to
> keep the amp meter as low as possible and make sure that I do not sag
> the
> battery pack too hard. Most of my driving was 45 mph or less but about
> 9
> miles of this trip was country roads where I got up to 55 mph. Is this
> information relevant in trying to calculate range?
>
>
>
> Thanks, Freddie
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually I meant that the Empty/Full guage drops down to 3/4 after that
hard driveing and never goes back up. The rate of drop changes but the
position only goes down (until you charge) The miles to go guage
changes on average useage and remaining charge and gets more accurate as
it gets closer to empty.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 04:13:49 -0400
On 26 Apr 2007 at 17:11, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> a standard set of head lights draws about 120 watts per hour.
Watts per hour? Is that like horsepower per minute? ;-)
Almost. A watt per hour is much closer to a horsepower per month. ( depends
on which month, or course)
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Dont quit your job Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI-
does your aircraft gen. have a sepex field, if so, this is probably
where the trouble is. FT.
> [Original Message]
> From: Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 4/27/2007 8:17:11 PM
> Subject: RE: Dead start acceleration issues
>
> I'll connect my laptop, and monitor the temp, tomorrow
> and see. I have 3 pentium4 heatsinks, with fans
> mounted on the flat backside of the controller, in
> hopes that they would keep it cool. It's warm to the
> touch, but not so hot that it hurts to touch it.
>
>
> --- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Is your controller getting hot and going into
> > thermal limit?
> >
> >
> > >From: Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > >To: "EVDL.ORG EVDL.org" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > >Subject: Dead start acceleration issues
> > >Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:54:41 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >Hello All: I've performed an EV conversion on a
> > 94'
> > >Mitsubishi Eclipse, using an Aircraft Generator,
> > and
> > >an AXE 7245 controller @ 72vdc, I am having an
> > issue
> > >with dead start acceleration at very inconvenient
> > >times.
> > >
> > >Initially, I can go into reverse, and forward from
> > a
> > >dead start with lots of power and can overcome good
> > >inclines. Then all of a sudden, I'll be at a stop
> > >sign (Usually when there are about 5 cars behind
> > me),
> > >and it won't overcome a pebble in the road. It just
> > >sort of inches out and once it gets a little
> > momentum
> > >it'll overcome whatever the issue is, and go like
> > >normal. After this, it'll do good starts for a
> > little
> > >while, and then once again, just inch out
> > slowwwwwly,
> > >and then finally take off. The battery pack, has
> > >plenty of charge. As a matter of fact, I took it
> > out
> > >today, and it did this with a pack voltage of
> > 75vdc.
> > >When this occurs, at an incline, I have to roll
> > >backwards to get out of the incline, and make a
> > >running start at the intersection.
> > >
> > >Any ideas on what could cause this?
> > >
> > >Thanks in advance for any help someone could give
> > me.
> > >
> >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more
> > from Microsoft Office
> > Live!
> >
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
I assume you're driving the display with a microcomputer. How about
using the segments as a bargraph?
| | | <-- 3 bars range to go if you drive fast
| | | | | | <-- 6 bars range to go if you drive slow
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I have 2 digital displays, may as well just show 20 miles on upper
one (fast driving) and 35 miles on lower one (slow driving)...
My point was that neither of these digital numbers have more than one
digit of accuracy. They imply precision that isn't there. That's why
they don't mark gas gauges 0-5-10-15-20 gallons; they mark them E 1/4
1/2 3/4 F.
Neat idea with analog representation on 7-segment Lee, but I already
have nice 25-segment analog bar for this. It looks like this:
http://www.metricmind.com/images/eff.jpg
Nice looking display! How does one know what the outside bargraph is
displaying?
But even that resolution (or infinite for that matter won't tell you how
far you can go.
My bargraph was a crude attempt to display a 2-dimensional value, rather
than one. A more complete graph would look like this (view with a fixed
width font):
speed
----- +---------------+
70 mph | \ |
50 mph |-------\ |
30 mph | \ |
10 mph | / |
+---------------+
range 0 10 20 30 40 50 miles
This is crude, too; but better illustrates the idea. I'm trying to tell
the driver that if he drives at 70 mph, he can go 25 more miles. At 50
mph (which is the current speed) he can go 30 miles. If he slows down to
30 mph, he can go 40 miles. And going really slow (10 mph) actually
makes the range worse because of the load from the accessory systems
(power steering, heater, etc.).
As I said above, the scales would not be literally labelled. The bottom
line might just be "E 1/4/ 1/2 3/4 F" like a gas gauge.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
I plan to experiment with a TH-350 with or without a locking type torque
converter using a manual value body that allows you to shift in each gear.
If I use it with a locking type torque converter which will add 1.8:1 ratio,
the overall ratio will be 1.8 x 2.75 1st gear and 5.57 axle which will give
me 27.57:1 overall ratio at start. My existing manual transmission gives me
a 19.495:1 ratio which my acceleration motor amps peaks at 300 amps and then
starts to drop to 100 amps.
Locking up the torque converter or using no torque converter, the ratio will
become 2.75 x 5.57 = 15.3175:1 which may work good after you get rolling.
My 2nd gear in my manual transmission drops all the way down to 13.925:1
which causes the motor ampere to surge to about 500 amps during the up
shifts.
I talk to a local transmission shop that specialize in racing transmissions.
If I use a transmission with out the torque converter, they can install or
tapped the front oil pump housing for two hoses that run to a pump that has
a pressure switch to limit the oil pump pressure.
This pump is turn on first when you turn the ignition switch on and the
transmission pump is now up to pressure. You will be able to move at 1 rpm
with out little slippage in the clutches if you use a racing type package
that allows greater torque capacity.
The manual value body eliminates the kick down cable and vacuum modulator.
This set up also allows you to use electric cable shifting, which eliminates
the nightmare double offset linkage system that I have now.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
> I can't remember the details but it pays to think backwards with vacuum.
> I think it is something like : a spring is trying to push the spool
> such that the governer pressure will cause an upshift when the drive
> shaft rpm hits a certain point. Vacumm assists this makeing it shift
> sooner. At wide open throttle, the vacuum helps less and the rpms have
> to be higher to shift.
> The cable has a slip joint on it allowing the linkage to go to drive but
> when you tromp on the throttle you run out of room and it grabs the
> linkage and causes a down shfit to low, passing gear.
>
> I really think in the older transmissions that the firmness is purely a
> function of when it shifts. The vacuum effects when not how hard.
>
> I don't know for sure, but just speculating, A torque converter seems to
> me to be a perfect ev transmission. nothing else needed.
> it is a 3::1 at low rpm's to help pull away from the line then it
> becomes close to one to one for the cruise 1:1 if you can lock it in at
> that point.
> The problem is that automotive units expect flow(for cooling), pressure
> must be maintained, if it drops it will stall/hammer.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hello All: I've performed an EV conversion on a 94'
Mitsubishi Eclipse, using an Aircraft Generator,
and an AXE 7245 controller @ 72vdc, I am having an
issue with dead start acceleration at very inconvenient
times... Any ideas on what could cause this?
Clearly, there is a bad connection somewhere. I doubt it's in the
aircraft generator's field circuit, because a loss of field current
causes HUGE peak current, and would blow fuses or circuit breakers (you
do *have* a fuse or circuit breaker, don't you? :-)
The motor could be losing armature power anywhere in the wiring through
the batteries, to the controller, from controller to motor, or in the
motor itself.
Often, a bad connection will not go completely open, but instead will go
to a high resistance. This makes it get hot! You can find bad
connections from their temperature rise after one of these "events". For
instance, you might feel the connections to the batteries, controller,
contactor, motor, etc.
Failing that, I'd diagnose it by connecting a voltmeter to different
points in the circuit. Leave it in while you are driving. When the
problem occurs, see if you still have voltage to that point. If so, then
the problem is after that point. If the voltage *is* going away, then
the problem is somewhere before that point. For example, you can check
the voltage of the battery pack as a whole, at the controller input,
controller output, and at the motor itself.
Another possibility; if this is an old motor that's been lying around,
you may have a dirty commutator or broken brush spring. Inspect the
commutator, and see if the brushes are moving freely in their holders.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roland, that information helped. I just purchased an E-meter and I
will be installing it soon.
Freddie
-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Wiench [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:53 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Range question
Hello Freddie,
The following is some calculations you can do, that will give you a range:
www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/lab/8679/equations.html
or input your data in:
http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalulator.html
which will auto calculated the data you input.
After you built your EV, use the running data a E-metal will display. For
example, my EV on a certain course uses 3.5 ah per mile. My batteries are
260 ah/3.5 = 74.2 miles if I discharge down to 0% DOD. At 50% DOD this would
be about 37 miles.
Another calculator that someone listed to this list is:
Range = (ah x .57 x V)/watts per mile which is about 41.6 miles for me.
Using the above geocities Uve's Electric Vehicle Calculator, the range is
display in each gear which is displays at 0% DOD.
The range for me at 50% DOD in 1st gear is 83 miles
2nd gear is 66 miles
3rd gear is 38 miles
So you see all three calculators are very close.
Roland
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Freddie Hartsell
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 10:38 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Range question
>
> I am still new at this and I am trying to figure out some type of
> numbers
> for my real range on my truck.
>
>
>
> History - 1991 Dodge Dakota pickup, Warp 9 motor, Curtis 1231C-8601, 24
> Interstate 2400 batteries for a 144 VDC pack, weight of truck 4248 lbs.
>
>
>
> I just drove the truck in town with the batteries fully charged at
> around
> 162 vdc. I went a total of 28.1 miles round trip and the pack voltage
> was
> setting at 146 vdc resting when I got back home. My question is can I
> use
> this information to calculate a maximum range or at least calculate how
> much
> of my battery pack voltage was left after the 28.1 miles. The truck was
> still strong when I pulled into the driveway and it was showing no signs
> of
> slowing down. Now I drive the truck for range. I mean that I do not
> drive
> it hard or fast. I try to stay up with traffic and stay close to the
> posted
> speed. I monitor the amp and volt meters while I am driving and I try
> to
> keep the amp meter as low as possible and make sure that I do not sag
> the
> battery pack too hard. Most of my driving was 45 mph or less but about
> 9
> miles of this trip was country roads where I got up to 55 mph. Is this
> information relevant in trying to calculate range?
>
>
>
> Thanks, Freddie
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
First, thanx to all those who replied offline, I will get back to
you in next few days... More confused than ever, consensus is that
the AC55 will be underpowered for my application.
But now the design takes a back seat to bureaucracy. *&[EMAIL PROTECTED])%$
I titled the donor car yesterday, and broached the question of
converting it to ev. I was told that I would have to take the
completed car to a regional motor vehicle center and have it
inspected for "fuel-cell safety". After passing that test I could go
back to my local motor vehicle department and apply for a re-tile
to electric fuel, basically a VIN review. But nobody seems to be
able to point me to published rules for what is required to pass the
inspection. I have been given a phone # as a starting point, will be
trying to arrange a meeting with an inspector coming week...
Has anyone on the list done a conversion in Colorado? I have seached
the CO MV dept website extensively, only reference there was
to the fact that I needed to re-title as elecetric fuel, but NO mention
of any fuel-cell safety inspections.
---
tia,
Steve
__________________________________________________
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http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> It LIVES!
Bob
Congrats on another success!
How did you register the car, as a gasser first, or did you register it as
electric? How did they
handle the emissions? I hope to be doing the same soon.
Have fun in Middletown.
Dave Cover
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--- Begin Message ---
One of the mods that we did to "Swiss Cheese", the motor for our Datsun
conversion, was set it up to use the RPM sensor the Otmar sells to go with
his Zillas. I have ordered the RPM sensor, but am starting with an Alltrax
not a Zilla. I would at a minimum be interested in having a motor tach, and
may even build a safety interlock to limit the max revs on the motor. The
safety interlock seems like it will be straight forward enough. I just need
to count the frequency and open the main contactor or disconnect the KSI
signal or both (any opinions welcome) at some predetermined redline. The
tach I would expect to be easy as well, although I do not know how most
tachs work. There is already an aftermarket tach mounted on the steering
column in the truck, so it would be great to be able to use it if possible.
The only thing I know is that the sensor pulses 4 times per revolution. Is
there an aftermarket tach that is directly compatible? What is considered a
safer RPM limit for an ADC 6.7? I'm under the impression that the smaller
motors can spin faster than the larger motors before they start to self
destruct. Is 6K an acceptible red line figure?
thanks
damon
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
I've got two Series III CityEls in my garage. One is the infamous
banana, still awaiting it's new roof and the other is a friend's one
which was imported a while ago.
While I know the Series II City Els need a new speedo unit to read in
mph the Series III units seem to have a light for 'm' and a light for
'km'. My car lights up the 'M' and my friend's European El lights up
'km'. They both read in their respective scales.
Does anyone on here know how to convert a km speedo to m? I know it
must be possible but can't see any physical differences between the
units. I'm wondering if it's a part of the EPROM chip that both
Speedometer units use.
Thanks,
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
murdoch wrote:
In my home, I have CFCs and they save energy over incandescents
Yes. To light up a room, you need lumens. "Lumens" measure the total
amount of light coming from a device. For this purpose, you want the
most lumens per watt.
and I have bought and tested one $40 LED bulb and verified their
extreme energy savings (though their color and brightness leave a
lot to be desired, at first glance).
At present LEDs are *less* efficient than fluorescents -- they put out
fewer lumens per watt, so they are worse at illuminating things. They do
use fewer watts; but do it by producing less light.
I don't understand though where conventional Halogen fits into this.
My impression from looking at the wattage and lumens at the store is
that even though Halogen bulbs seem very bright, they seem also to use
a lot of energy and so, purely from an energy-savings standpoint, I am
not saving any power, per lumen.
"Brightness" is not a measure of the amount of light -- it is a measure
of how well you can see it from a distance. A star is bright; but you
sure can't read by starlight! Brightness is measured in candela; the
brightness of one candle. To make the number sound bigger, they usually
use milli-candela, or mcd for short (1 candela = 1000 mcd).
Halogen lamps (quartz iodide, etc.) have high brightness; LEDs and
arc-lamps (HID headlights, etc.) have *extremely* high brightness
numbers. But that tells you *nothing* about the amount of light they
produce!
Assuming that for a given task I was willing to size the bulb for the
appropriate amount of brightness, are halogen or HID competitive in
energy efficiency with CFC and LEDs?
First decide what you want to do; illuminate an area, or make something
that others can see at a distance. Then pick the light source that gives
you the desired results.
To light up an area, fluorescents are the most efficient (least energy
for a given number of lumens.
To be seen at a distance, LEDs are the most efficient (least energy for
a given number of candela).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
The easiest way to deal with bureacracy is to avoid it. Why bother getting
it retitled to electric? If you want to do it to make a statement, that's
your perogitive. Personally I just plan on paying my renewal fee every year
after my conversion is done. Since I am starting with a 1970 donor there
are no emission inspections required and no compelling reason for me to fill
out a bunch of paperwork.
damon
From: Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: corvette conversion
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:46:21 -0700 (PDT)
Hi,
First, thanx to all those who replied offline, I will get back to
you in next few days... More confused than ever, consensus is that
the AC55 will be underpowered for my application.
But now the design takes a back seat to bureaucracy. *&[EMAIL PROTECTED])%$
I titled the donor car yesterday, and broached the question of
converting it to ev. I was told that I would have to take the
completed car to a regional motor vehicle center and have it
inspected for "fuel-cell safety". After passing that test I could go
back to my local motor vehicle department and apply for a re-tile
to electric fuel, basically a VIN review. But nobody seems to be
able to point me to published rules for what is required to pass the
inspection. I have been given a phone # as a starting point, will be
trying to arrange a meeting with an inspector coming week...
Has anyone on the list done a conversion in Colorado? I have seached
the CO MV dept website extensively, only reference there was
to the fact that I needed to re-title as elecetric fuel, but NO mention
of any fuel-cell safety inspections.
---
tia,
Steve
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roland,
Note that the following is all based on newbie guestimations, not
experience:
I have one concern, and I really don't know how much of a problem it is with
your numbers. When the overall first gear ratio gets too low, you end up
using more energy spinning up the rotational mass of the drivetrain (which
will be significantly greater with a converter) than you do moving the car.
That could be a waste of battery. The ICE equivalent is the manual trans
gear ratios used in muscle cars compared to the 2 liter sports cars. The
little motor cars used overall first gears around 16-1 because the motors
had little torque, and little rotational mass, so it needed to, and could,
spin up quickly and use a lot of reduction gearing to launch the car. The
big block Corvettes used overall first gears more like 8-1. Going lower was
pointless because you just lost the extra power trying to spin up a lot of
rotational mass in a hurry. The drag race guys are using 2 speed
powerglides because with their light cars and big motors, a first gear
reduction below 1.75 or so is a waste. I think we've got a similar
situation in electric motors. Given the same voltage and current, the 8
inch up to the 13 inch WarP motors put out similar HP, but at very different
RPM. They've also got very different armature weights contributing to
rotational mass. If you geared the 13 motor the same as you'd gear an 8
inch motor, most of your energy would just go to spinning up the armature
and torque converter, not moving the car. Given the same voltage and
current, you'd accelerate slower and lose range.
Somewhere in here there must be an ideal overall first gear ratio for a
given vehicle weight, tire diameter and motor size. Too much gear
reduction, you waste energy spinning up the drivetrain instead of moving the
car. Too little reduction (torque multiplication), you'll need more current
to produce more motor torque for the same acceleration.
The fact that you're pulling more amps in 2nd than 1st implies to me that
your overall first gear may be too low for best acceleration already,
although that may benefit range. If you go lower in first, you won't pull
much current, you may not be able to load the motor enough to produce any
power, resulting in poor acceleration. First gear may be useless.
Is this the car you're writing about? http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/470
What is the diameter of that motor?
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
Hello Jeff,
I plan to experiment with a TH-350 with or without a locking type torque
converter using a manual value body that allows you to shift in each gear.
If I use it with a locking type torque converter which will add 1.8:1
ratio, the overall ratio will be 1.8 x 2.75 1st gear and 5.57 axle which
will give me 27.57:1 overall ratio at start. My existing manual
transmission gives me a 19.495:1 ratio which my acceleration motor amps
peaks at 300 amps and then starts to drop to 100 amps.
Locking up the torque converter or using no torque converter, the ratio
will become 2.75 x 5.57 = 15.3175:1 which may work good after you get
rolling. My 2nd gear in my manual transmission drops all the way down to
13.925:1 which causes the motor ampere to surge to about 500 amps during
the up shifts.
I talk to a local transmission shop that specialize in racing
transmissions. If I use a transmission with out the torque converter, they
can install or tapped the front oil pump housing for two hoses that run to
a pump that has a pressure switch to limit the oil pump pressure.
This pump is turn on first when you turn the ignition switch on and the
transmission pump is now up to pressure. You will be able to move at 1
rpm with out little slippage in the clutches if you use a racing type
package that allows greater torque capacity.
The manual value body eliminates the kick down cable and vacuum modulator.
This set up also allows you to use electric cable shifting, which
eliminates the nightmare double offset linkage system that I have now.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
I can't remember the details but it pays to think backwards with vacuum.
I think it is something like : a spring is trying to push the spool
such that the governer pressure will cause an upshift when the drive
shaft rpm hits a certain point. Vacumm assists this makeing it shift
sooner. At wide open throttle, the vacuum helps less and the rpms have
to be higher to shift.
The cable has a slip joint on it allowing the linkage to go to drive but
when you tromp on the throttle you run out of room and it grabs the
linkage and causes a down shfit to low, passing gear.
I really think in the older transmissions that the firmness is purely a
function of when it shifts. The vacuum effects when not how hard.
I don't know for sure, but just speculating, A torque converter seems to
me to be a perfect ev transmission. nothing else needed.
it is a 3::1 at low rpm's to help pull away from the line then it
becomes close to one to one for the cruise 1:1 if you can lock it in at
that point.
The problem is that automotive units expect flow(for cooling), pressure
must be maintained, if it drops it will stall/hammer.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Granted I haven't read the whole discussion, but I haven't seen anything
about optics. I believe, in order to light up the road with the least
power, you need good optics putting the light in the right place. I think
that's easier to do with a point source, a small source of light. I suspect
it would be pretty tough to make good directional use of light produced from
something the size of a flourescent tube, or multiple LEDs. I suspect the
bigger the light source, the harder it is to create a flat top beam and
prevent glare to oncoming drivers, because light rays are coming from too
many source locations, just like trying to cast a sharp edged shadow under a
flourescent light.
The other extreme seems to be the HID lights. I believe the source,
basically a small arc, allows a lot of control in the optics. That's why
the top of the beam is so flat that HID headlights going over bumps behind
you look like flashing cop car lights.
I also like the idea that an HID light shouldn't change color or brightness
with voltage, until the spark quits anyway. That should be good for people
running them off of an accessory battery with no DC to DC converter.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: LED headlight bulbs?Very OT
murdoch wrote:
In my home, I have CFCs and they save energy over incandescents
Yes. To light up a room, you need lumens. "Lumens" measure the total
amount of light coming from a device. For this purpose, you want the most
lumens per watt.
and I have bought and tested one $40 LED bulb and verified their
extreme energy savings (though their color and brightness leave a
lot to be desired, at first glance).
At present LEDs are *less* efficient than fluorescents -- they put out
fewer lumens per watt, so they are worse at illuminating things. They do
use fewer watts; but do it by producing less light.
I don't understand though where conventional Halogen fits into this.
My impression from looking at the wattage and lumens at the store is
that even though Halogen bulbs seem very bright, they seem also to use
a lot of energy and so, purely from an energy-savings standpoint, I am
not saving any power, per lumen.
"Brightness" is not a measure of the amount of light -- it is a measure of
how well you can see it from a distance. A star is bright; but you sure
can't read by starlight! Brightness is measured in candela; the brightness
of one candle. To make the number sound bigger, they usually use
milli-candela, or mcd for short (1 candela = 1000 mcd).
Halogen lamps (quartz iodide, etc.) have high brightness; LEDs and
arc-lamps (HID headlights, etc.) have *extremely* high brightness numbers.
But that tells you *nothing* about the amount of light they produce!
Assuming that for a given task I was willing to size the bulb for the
appropriate amount of brightness, are halogen or HID competitive in
energy efficiency with CFC and LEDs?
First decide what you want to do; illuminate an area, or make something
that others can see at a distance. Then pick the light source that gives
you the desired results.
To light up an area, fluorescents are the most efficient (least energy for
a given number of lumens.
To be seen at a distance, LEDs are the most efficient (least energy for a
given number of candela).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
