EV Digest 6742
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: AC Questions
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Electric Power Steering
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: PFC-20
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Electric Power Steering
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Automatic or Manual?
by "David Hankins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: PFC-20
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: PFC-20
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) remove
by Ann Pence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 1994 Toyota 2WD conversion
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Over voltage in a pack
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Bad news - battery prices going up again
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: DD, Cog Calcs, aero
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Over voltage in a pack
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Electric Power Steering
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: AC Questions
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Electric Power Steering
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Electric Power Steering
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 1-Wire Expertise
by Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Electric Power Steering
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 1994 Toyota 2WD conversion
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Automatic or Manual?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) FLEAA Meeting and Technical Workshop Details
by "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Over voltage in a pack
by "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Automatic or Manual?
by "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Adaptor Plate for Swift, Metro, Firefly, Sprint?
by "Bart Grabman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Automatic or Manual?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) flywheel balancing
by "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: PFC-20
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
So does anyone have anything to say about Solectra vs. Siemens AC
systems?
According to MME I only need a 40hp motor to be equivalent to a 150hp
gas engine. So that shouldn't be a problem.
Also I have around a $16,000 budget, which seems like it should work
for an AC system... right?
Thanks,
Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What are people doing for electric power steering?
I have seen some electric power steering pumps on ebay. Has anyone
worked out a controller to drive them so they wont be always full on?
Thanks,
Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Wrote: "Rich put a [EMAIL PROTECTED] Knob on that!!!! "
I'll second that. I had to grind down a 'micro' screwdriver to just get it
into the hole and hoped the sharp edges wouldn't destroy anything, and it still
rubs the edges of the hole, so it's hard to tell if it is in the slot or not.
and you can't look into the hole unless you block off the blinding LED's next
to it with one hand. You could light a whole room with those for sure!
Bob, if the pot floats, something has come loose (when did it develop this much
float?). Mine is pretty rigidly mounted, impossible to slip the blade around
it. It's doesn't sound too bad, but it probably does need to be sent back for
repair.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2007 11:09:20 AM
Subject: PFC-20
Hi EVerybody;
Have been running the Jetta , now for a couple of weaks, now. And have
started weeding out the minor(like Part Time lighting) Crappy badd-eries, ect
but I THINK I may have busted the charger. Ya know, you PFC drivers, that
little hols adjustment pot, on the left of the little plastic cover plate?You
get a tiny screwdriver and TRY to find the mini-pot?Christ! Rich put a GODAMN
Knob on that!!!! So you don't have to fish around TRYING to find it! I got a
small "Zorch' trying to find it! Fan speeded up a bit and NOTHING , volts wise
comes out! The pot seems to be adrift enough, it "ducks" away when you try to
screwdriver it, as it is. Sigh! Guess I gotta pull the unit and open it up to
see if the pot is detached from the circuit bored?
Anybody ELSE done this? Before I have to ship it back as DOA?
Back to a Bad Boy, again.
Bob
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____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The most recent Honda Civics and Fits have EPS. On my
Civic, I'm using a manual rack, and don't mind a
little muscle. I've heard the latest MR2 is also
using EPS, but those are still new and pricey to use
as gliders.
peace,
--- Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What are people doing for electric power steering?
> I have seen some electric power steering pumps on
> ebay. Has anyone
> worked out a controller to drive them so they wont
> be always full on?
>
> Thanks,
> Tehben
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Breathe...
This has all been debunked. The flywheel is not going to come apart unless
it is damaged in the process of or after it has been modified, And then only
if the modder is a total moron.
The fly wheel is just a forged slug of steel. It would literally take
hundreds of thousands of RPMs to cause one to explode even if it is damaged.
More likely is if it were unbalanced at that rpm it would cause something
else to fail from the vibration and remain intact itself.
Balancing that is done to compensate for the unbalances in the ICE are done
by drilling the outer edge. So... if you remove say the outer 1-2" of the
edge you have removed any "unbalancing" that may have existed.
So if you just remove the outer portion down to with in 3/4" of the bolt
holes for the pressure plate, you will be able to sleep at night knowing
that the world is safe once again. Everything outside this diameter is for
mass and has to do with the low rpm characteristic of the ICE engine, not
the clutch, not the starter, and most certainly not structural integrity.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: GWMobile [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:51 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Automatic or Manual?
The key phrase is the "material not required for structural integrity".
Since no one is really going to know that, you are better off buying a
lighter flywheel that is designed to be light.
Otherwise you might as well guess how much rubber to scrap off your tire
sidewalls to make them lighter as well.
On Fri, 4 May 2007 1:14 pm, Marty Hewes wrote:
> This is another thing that sends shivers up my spine, the thought of
> lightening a flywheel. Be very, very sure the person who's doing it
> knows what they are doing. There is a lot of centrifugal force acting
> on a flywheel when they are spinning, and they have been known to fly
> apart if they are structurally compromised, even just overheated a few
> too many times. Don Garlits (the first guy into the 7's), I believe,
> lost a big chunk of his foot to a flywheel explosion.
>
> Back when I was racing, there were rules about that sort of thing. If
> you wanted a light flywheel, you bought one that was approved. Even
> then, in the faster classes, you ran a scattershield, pretty much a
> bullet proof bell housing, or what amounts to a bullet proof vest for
> the trans. In stock classes, you could run a stock flywheel, but I
> suspect they'd frown upon having it lightened. In my camaros, I ran an
> aluminum race flywheel, and a factory high performance lightweight
> steel flywheel. Neither was terribly expensive. Depending on what
> you're driving, you may be able to buy one for not much more than the
> cost of the machine work anyway. There used to be places around that
> could make flywheels for anything to spec.
>
> Marty
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Hankins"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>> A flywheel can be made "light" for EV use as you don't need the outer
>> Gear
>> ring for the starter and you don't need all that mass to keep the motor
>> running smoothly at idle or to keep you from stalling the motor at low
>> rpms.
>>
>> So, you can machine off the outer diameter down to only the area
>> needed for
>> the clutch. The thickness can be reduced and any additional material
>> not
>> required for structural integrity can be removed with further
>> machining and
>> drilling.
>>
>> David
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Need some sort of "trimpot adjusting tool":
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/index.php?scdfa-250100084-viewDetail-productzq31008zq4categoryzq39=true
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe something more along the lines of this?
http://www.specialized.net/ecommerce/shop/layout.asp?product%5Fid=318X805
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
Even without a heater the insulation should help. The batteries/wiring
will generate heat when charging/discharging. If driven every day it
should be enough to keep them warmer than ambient. 20+ batteries is a LOT
of thermal mass!
I worried about front/rear batts being different temps, but no such
problems in my VW. The front batts are cooled by oncoming airflow, and the
rear batts heat up when I'm parked in the sun. No balancing problems - in
fact, my 'strongest' and 'weakest' batteries are both up front, right next
to each other. Floodies rule!
I was wondering if the LSPV (load sensing proportioning valve - dynamic
rear brake adjustment) would be necessary given the extra weight on the
rear axle. The manuals I have omit all adjustment instructions, referring
me to an authorized Toyota repair center! It would also be nice to have
the shocks both pointing rearward - any downsides to that?
I removed the bed to get a general battery placement idea. An angle iron
basket holding a wood/fiberglass or polyethylene (polypropylene?) box
sounds ideal. It's how my VW is setup. The plastic box isolates the
batteries from the chassis. I haven't had ANY current leakage problems
with the boxes, but I've had 2 separate issues with powder coated iron
hold down frames in the last year.
The Phil Knox aero mods are tempting, but I rarely drive over 40MPH. A
grill block and belly pan are in the works (a must for the rain here), and
if I'm feeling ambitious I MIGHT do rear wheel skirts. The camper shell
would be overkill.
Adrian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Quick question: If you have a 144v motor, and a controller that can
> handle up to say, 300v+ battery side, is there an advantage to running
> a 288v+ pack with a single motor? We'll assume that motor voltage
> won't go above its rated values, so no pumping a 144v motor with 250v
Ah, but if you use a 288V pack, the motor WILL see 288V. It might not see
an average voltage that high, but the instantaneous voltage will be. I
beleive you will still have to do all of the brush advance adjustment's
etc. to make it safe.
> :) I ask because it seems that something like that setup would help
> with voltage drop during load, and so on. More voltage = more
> available power, as we know but I was curious about this particular
> scenario.
No not really. Power equals volts * amps. So more voltage does NOT equal
more power unless the amps stay the same.
Ditto voltage drop under load. Voltage drop depends on the ammount of
current you draw and is also independent of voltage. A higher voltage
pack at the same current level will have MORE total voltage drop due to
more batteries falling the same amount.
If you take 28 * 12V batteries and arrange them as one long string, they
will have exactly the same maximum power available as if you set them up
as buddy pairs, or even one BIG parralleled 12V battery.
You might get more power through a given controller, at the higher
voltage, if the batteries can handle the controllers maximum current. But
a single string will sag more at a given current than buddy pairs will
(since each buddy only see's 1/2 the current) so you might have to do a
little math to see how your chosen batteries and controller interact.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought some last week. Went back to get the rest
today, and the price was 5% higher. The exact same
batteries that were sitting there 1 week earlier. I
complained (of course), but it did no good. I had to
pay the higher price for the balance of the pack.
In fact, the 80 AH batts are now the price the 120 AH
were only last week!
So, if you need batteries, better get them soon, or
the same will happen to you.
Steve
____________________________________________________________________________________
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Randy Burleson wrote:
>>> Have you read the book "How to Build a Cheap Sports Car"?
>
> The title is "Build Your Own Sports Car", subtitled "for as little as
> 250 pounds -- and race it!", by Ron Champion. I have the second edition,
<Grin> I have it too, but I couldn't remember the name, thanks.
FWIW there is ALSO a book with the title I posted (I searched Amazon) as
well as a couple other similar titles.
Probably best to go with the Ron Champion one though, since it's aknown
quality.
>> I'm definitely familiar with Riley's writings, plans, and techniques.
>> Good stuff, but I don't trust my foam-sculpting abilities.
>
> His designs are simple, but seem overly crude and labor-intensive.
I don't think I'd try building glass-over-foam with just the instructions
on the website, but I figure it's a good starting point. If you read that
and don't feel up to the juob, then there's not much sense in buying a
book on it.
At leat that's what I figure.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<snip>
If you take 28 * 12V batteries and arrange them as one long string, they
will have exactly the same maximum power available as if you set them up
as buddy pairs, or even one BIG parralleled 12V battery.
You might get more power through a given controller, at the higher
voltage, if the batteries can handle the controllers maximum current. But
a single string will sag more at a given current than buddy pairs will
(since each buddy only see's 1/2 the current) so you might have to do a
little math to see how your chosen batteries and controller interact.
Hmm.. so why then, do the faster, more powerful motors all have higher
voltage ratings? It is because you can send more power for less amps
drawn, and thus get more flowing over the same wires because of V=IR.
Which is why power transmission lines are at huge voltages.
I realize that Watts = volts * amps.. was a Physics major ;) What I
was interested in was the notion of mitigating the limitations of
lower voltage systems by deliberately running at 'over voltage' on the
battery side, then having the controller chop things down to 144v,
perhaps through a DC/DC. You'd have a bit of loss, but I haven't done
the numbers as far as how much versus a copper run.
I had no idea that buddy pairs functioned that way, but of -course-
they do.. now that you mention it. :-)
Thanks Peter.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Tehben,
I am using a CEV Power Steering Kit from Canadian Electric Vehicle Ltd.
http://www.islandnet.com/~canev/KitsComp/Components/PowerSteeringKit.html .
It comes complete with mounting bracket, reservoir, relay and breaker. It
uses standard power steering fluid, not a special type.
It only draws 12 amps at 12 volts when turning. I leave it on all the time.
You can also adjust it to draw a higher ampere for a heavy vehicle which my
ev is at about 7000 lbs. I adjust it for the lightest load, which makes the
steering a little firm which is about like my other car with manual
steering.
I could not use the Toyota electric power steering pump, because they do not
make it any more. Also you have to have a steering wheel control unit, so
every time you turn the steering wheel a certain distance, it would come on.
The problem here that the on-off starting surge ampere was greater overall
than leaving it on all the time.
I also found out that one of the early year Toyota electric power steering
pumps had to use there Toyota special power steering fluid which I heard was
up to $50.00 a qt in some places.
The above unit from CanEV is a custom made unit, so the cost is going to be
up there.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Electric Power Steering
> What are people doing for electric power steering?
> I have seen some electric power steering pumps on ebay. Has anyone
> worked out a controller to drive them so they wont be always full on?
>
> Thanks,
> Tehben
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/6/07, Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So does anyone have anything to say about Solectra vs. Siemens AC
systems?
According to MME I only need a 40hp motor to be equivalent to a 150hp
gas engine. So that shouldn't be a problem.
Also I have around a $16,000 budget, which seems like it should work
for an AC system... right?
The Solectria systems are air cooled, and the fella with the sunrise
has said that it is tough to stay cruising on the highway for long
periods because it overheats. Then again he may not be ducting air
over it, or he might be driving it only in the summertime :) Also,
solectria is defunct as a company. I don't know how Electro Auto is
selling them, but its probably true that he bought them out. They are,
however, a bit less expensive.
The Siemens units come with a matched Simotion inverter for your
application and a warranty from the manufacturer. They are liquid
cooled, and Siemens is still in business, and still making motors.
It will cost something like 10k for the Siemens setup, with all the
bits and bobs. So, it might be a bit tight. It will cost less for the
Solectria gear. but still around $8k I would think.
You -might- be able to do the system in AC for the money you are mentioning.
A comparable DC system would cost something like half that, or around
$5k for the motor, controller and bits/bobs. Not including battery,
cables, battery boxes, charger, donor, and etc.
Honestly though, I started off wanting to do an AC system myself. As I
looked at the prices and thought about it, I switched to DC for my
first conversion. If I want regen I am going to get a DC genhead, or
maybe a small and cheap DC motor, and hook it in on a belt to the
drive shaft.
When I do a second one.. a long range sports car.. and have the cash
to really go for it, I'll do it in AC or BLDC for sure.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That link is probably old.. here is the current one.
http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/PowerSteeringKit.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: PFC-20
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 08:59:45 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: PFC-20
> Maybe something more along the lines of this?
>
> http://www.specialized.net/ecommerce/shop/layout.asp?product%5Fid=318X805
> Thanks Ryan for the link!
But why do I hafta? Dumb design, to begin with! The "Floating" pot, too.
This issue I had before. Rich are ya listing? Put a simple shaft extender
and KNOB on the panel, to keep us fumble finger guyz OUT of the Green
Box!!My biggest beef with a superb charger. All I want to do is set the high
est voltage that I want the charger to go to, then shut off. Haven't tried
to decipher the timing feature, yet.EVen if it doesn't shut down, just float
the voltage about 150 volts for a 120 volt car.I havent had a chance to take
it apart to TRY to fix it. Don't like to mess with it almost as much as the
damn down time shipping it Out West again.
End of Rant
Bob
--- End Message ---
