EV Digest 6743
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Automatic or Manual?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: flywheel balancing, motors an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: flywheel balancing, motors an' Stuff
by "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: flywheel balancing, motors an' Stuff
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Chico EAA meeting date changed. Now June 9th
by "eb1chuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) RE: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Chico EAA meeting date changed. Now June 9th
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Chico EAA meeting date changed. Now June 9th
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) still FS: new PFC20 buck enhanced, $1650+shipping
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Brake Rear Pressure Porportioning Valve
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 1-Wire Expertise
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: AC Questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: AC Questions
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Electric Power Steering
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Brake Rear Pressure Porportioning Valve
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: DD, Cog Calcs, aero
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Electric Power Steering
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Two motor clarifications
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Brake Rear Pressure Porportioning Valve
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: DD, Cog Calcs, aero
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The Javlon is supposed to debut next year at 29k, fyi.
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1228
On 5/7/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Its funny - everyone here is saying he is no friend of the electric car
but yet he has 3 and drives them regularly. His quote was saying that
the Baker is using basically the same technology that the new Evs are
running. Since Ford moved away from the electric car there hasn't been
much innovation. Tesla and the Tzero are great examples of what is
possible but they are still far from production line numbers and the
cost is waaay out of most people's hands. Tesla is making great strides
in cost reduction. Hopefully they will be able to get their family
sedan down into the $30,000 range like they are suggesting.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Randy Burleson
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 15:12
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: RE: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
He's a car guy -- a mechanized enthusiast -- a gearhead.
Does he need to have an agenda beyond that?
Be happy that he restored, displays, and uses a Baker.
Either don't sweat the rest, or start calling and getting him rides in
local EVs. Better yet, challenge him to a race -- he's a gearhead, and
we're pretty easy to tempt that way.
Randii
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:22 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; ETList; SFEVA;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
I can't believe Jay Leno (the ultimate car geek) compares a Baker
Electric to a Rav4 EV. They may have the same range but not the same
speed or
convienences. I'm sure he's taken a ride in a Tzero or Tesla. He at
times
acts like a spokesman for GM & then crows the 0 emmissions standard of
his steam car. He is so contrary sometimes I just don't understand his
agenda.
Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello George,
That is true that the center of the flywheel gives out, because of alignment
problems, even if you have the best flywheel and balance.
Sometimes the ring gear is design on some flywheels to put the whole
flywheel under stress to keep it together under high rpm.
Make sure that when you re-install or replace the flywheel, that you put in
a new guild pin that is press fit in the motor coupler. If this coupler
does not have one, than some couplers or crank flange will have a centering
flange that fits in the rear of flywheel design for that crank flange that
is press fit on by drawing in the crank bolts.
The first flywheel I had both the centering flange and alignment pin. The
new flywheel I have now does not have a rear centering flange, so I make
sure that I install a new guild pin.
A flywheel bolts which is a grade 8 or higher, should be a shoulder bolt
where the threads of the bolt does not make contact with the hole in the
flywheel. Just dry fit a standard bolt in the flywheel hole and see how
loose it is. Now install a flywheel bolt and you will see you will still
have 0.01 to 0.02 clearance. This is still enough clearance to cause some
major vibration.
Even though my new flywheel and new taper lock motor coupler a balance
separate unit, but the flywheel did not have a centering ring, just a large
flat area on the back of the flywheel, but did have a guild pin hole.
The taper lock motor coupling did not have a guild pin hole, so I took these
unit to my motor shop plus the motor rotor to have the shaft ends resize for
a tighter fit. This motor shop happens to do engine balance, so they
balance the rotor first, than added on the taper lock coupler and check the
balance again. Drill a guild pin hole in the coupler and install a guild
pin, recheck the balance again and than check the balance of the flywheel
and than check the whole assembly as a unit.
Leaving out a guild pin or sometimes not replace this pin with a new one,
will normally cause a major vibration at this point.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 10:52 PM
Subject: RE: Automatic or Manual?
> Just a little clarification on the flywheel question. Experts, please
> correct me if I am wrong. Some automotive flywheels are a high grade of
> cast iron. Steel is available for high performance, and is used on many
> trucks. Steel flywheels can be either forged, or billet. Flywheels are
> also available for racing applications in aluminum, with steel facing.
> Flywheels do disintegrate, but the common cause is a fracture starting at
> the crankshaft bolt circle due to dumping the clutch, etc.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:07 AM
Subject: flywheel balancing
>
> However, I don't know of anyone who balances a flywheel with the rest
> of
> the ICE connected, I don't even think you can.
>
But they DO, SOMEHOW! I took my Rabbit ADV 9" motor with all the
"Running gear, flywheel, pressure plate , WITHOUT the clutch disc,
assembled, to a local speed shop. Guyz that build racing engines. There were
a bunch of gas engines in various stages of disasembly, and what they were
doing for/with them. What a lot of work for a machine that is vertually Junk
,after a few runs!I kidded them about that, they, while sitting around the
break area, that they were working against the laws of physics, all that
stuff. Some of them EVen had heard about some guy Out West running an old
Datsun as an electric drag car, was beating 'Vettes, and other fast iron. I
showed them MY armature and said that HE ,out west ,was using a SMALLER
motor but 2 of them. That created a few more looks at my nakid armature
chucked up in the balancing machine. He, the tecky, spun it all up and
drilled a few balancing holes. I said the ARMATURE was balanced already,
when the motor was built, it was MY hardware, cut down from 14 to 6 lb VW
flywheel, and GTO pressure plate, all assembled for test.
I had all this done about a year ago, in time for Joliet. I had bearing
failure issues before, the rear shaft warn loose on the inner race, so bad
there was play!So had to have my local machinist build up and cut the shaft
back down to 30mm. Figured?? That I had a balance issue from the get go
YEARS ago? E motors bearings usually last for YEARS! Like how many OTHER
guyz are changing out their motor ball bearings every few years??Thought so.
Not many!What ELSE would be killing motor bearings? The thrust when you push
the clutch in?When you push the clutch in you are forcing side loadings on
the motor's ball bearings. I wouldn't think this could be an issue?Maybe it
was killing the bearings?Nah! I figgured that the damn Diesel-like vibration
I had had, before that last teardown of the motor was the bearing killer?
We'll see as the motor clutch/pressure plate adapter plate I stuffed in the
Jetta, which is runnung around, now. Rah! Going this AM to get it weighed
up at a local quarrry.
Guessing at 3200-3300 lbs??A Jetta is a hellova lot bigger than a Rabbbit
or Bug! Thre motor " Sings" along, for lack of a better term, happy in the
Jetta, or to be back on the road again. That trolley bussy sound, as a guy
commented from Boston, when riding in Rabbit the first time. Boston has a
few trolley bus runs still. But Damn few, they have stupidly killed most of
them. NYC SHOULD be doing them, too, a simple power hookup to the subways'
third rails downstairs on the major Aves. NUY has it's head up their exhaust
pipes on ANYTHING like that!Hey! We started the second ave Subway, last
month, after 4 other starts. It was gunna be built after the 2nd ave El came
down, in the 30's!Hah! The New Haven RR was gunna electrify to Boston, in
1915! But never got around to it ,with 25hz 11k volts,no less! But they DID
get to New Haven by 1914, though! But we don't rush, hastily, into things on
the Least Coast! Amtrak finished it in 1999!! YOUR tax dollars at work! Well
back to the story.
> - Someone should be able to do a dynamic balance on the whole system.
> An accelerometer is mounted on the system and connected to a processor
> that records the max magnitude and its phase to determine where weight
> needs to be added/removed.
> Oh they do, I think I paid about 70 bux? Forgot, now.
My too lbs worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob, If you are using a solid state converter, and depending on grounding,
AC currents can conduct through the bearings and cause pitting. These are
high frequency currents that are coupled via stray capacitance from the
armature windings into the armature laminations, and then to the nearest
return path which can be the bearings. There are several solutions:
insulated bearings, no kidding. Also, running a carbon brush ring on the
motor shaft.
Another possibility is that when shipping your car across country to a race
track in Portland, without the motor turning, the bearings pound and vibrate
in place. All lubrication is displaced, and galling and pitting results.
One more item on flywheels: Some engines have crankshafts that
are "externally" balanced. This means that the flywheel or harmonic
balancer are lopsided on purpose to offset crankshaft mass. Ford V8's come
to mind. So, it would be very important for an EV application to check this.
George
On Mon, 7 May 2007 09:38:21 -0400, Bob Rice wrote
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:07 AM
> Subject: flywheel balancing
>
> >
> > However, I don't know of anyone who balances a flywheel with the rest
> > of
> > the ICE connected, I don't even think you can.
> >
>
> But they DO, SOMEHOW! I took my Rabbit ADV 9" motor with all
> the "Running gear, flywheel, pressure plate , WITHOUT the clutch
> disc, assembled, to a local speed shop. Guyz that build racing
> engines. There were a bunch of gas engines in various stages of
> disasembly, and what they were doing for/with them. What a lot of
> work for a machine that is vertually Junk ,after a few runs!I kidded
> them about that, they, while sitting around the break area, that
> they were working against the laws of physics, all that stuff. Some
> of them EVen had heard about some guy Out West running an old Datsun
> as an electric drag car, was beating 'Vettes, and other fast iron. I
> showed them MY armature and said that HE ,out west ,was using a SMALLER
> motor but 2 of them. That created a few more looks at my nakid armature
> chucked up in the balancing machine. He, the tecky, spun it all up
> and drilled a few balancing holes. I said the ARMATURE was balanced
> already, when the motor was built, it was MY hardware, cut down from
> 14 to 6 lb VW flywheel, and GTO pressure plate, all assembled for test.
>
> I had all this done about a year ago, in time for Joliet. I had bearing
> failure issues before, the rear shaft warn loose on the inner race,
> so bad there was play!So had to have my local machinist build up
> and cut the shaft back down to 30mm. Figured?? That I had a balance
> issue from the get go YEARS ago? E motors bearings usually last for
> YEARS! Like how many OTHER guyz are changing out their motor ball
> bearings every few years??Thought so. Not many!What ELSE would be
> killing motor bearings? The thrust when you push the clutch in?When
> you push the clutch in you are forcing side loadings on the motor's
> ball bearings. I wouldn't think this could be an issue?Maybe it was
> killing the bearings?Nah! I figgured that the damn Diesel-like vibration
> I had had, before that last teardown of the motor was the bearing killer?
> We'll see as the motor clutch/pressure plate adapter plate I stuffed
> in the Jetta, which is runnung around, now. Rah! Going this AM to
> get it weighed up at a local quarrry. Guessing at 3200-3300 lbs??A
> Jetta is a hellova lot bigger than a Rabbbit or Bug! Thre motor "
> Sings" along, for lack of a better term, happy in the Jetta, or to
> be back on the road again. That trolley bussy sound, as a guy
> commented from Boston, when riding in Rabbit the first time. Boston
> has a few trolley bus runs still. But Damn few, they have stupidly
> killed most of them. NYC SHOULD be doing them, too, a simple power
> hookup to the subways' third rails downstairs on the major Aves. NUY
> has it's head up their exhaust pipes on ANYTHING like that!Hey! We
> started the second ave Subway, last month, after 4 other starts. It
> was gunna be built after the 2nd ave El came down, in the 30's!Hah!
> The New Haven RR was gunna electrify to Boston, in 1915! But never
> got around to it ,with 25hz 11k volts,no less! But they DID get to
> New Haven by 1914, though! But we don't rush, hastily, into things
> on the Least Coast! Amtrak finished it in 1999!! YOUR tax dollars at
> work! Well back to the story.
>
> > - Someone should be able to do a dynamic balance on the whole system.
> > An accelerometer is mounted on the system and connected to a processor
> > that records the max magnitude and its phase to determine where weight
> > needs to be added/removed.
>
> > Oh they do, I think I paid about 70 bux? Forgot, now.
>
> My too lbs worth
>
> Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A couple issues.
I also am under the impression that not all factory flywheels are forged
steel. I believe many are cast, which is why a lot of racing organizations
require flywheel changes for any engine modified for higher RPM.
http://videos.streetfire.net/category/Mazda/0/BA761E80-42F0-4C6C-BF0D-7B8BEC0BE52D.htm
Imagine your feet, batteries or cables were next to that flywheel...
I believe the factory can get away with cast flywheels because they know
that if you rev a typical stock ICE much beyond 6000, either the valve train
will quit following the cam lobes and it simply won't turn faster, or a
connecting rod or two will break with much less excitement before the
flywheel goes. An electric motor can probably spin up to a lot higher RPM
if you haven't got an RPM limiter in the controller, and even then, what if
the controller or a cable shorts? Some thought ought to be given to what
goes first in case of the motor seeing too much voltage and too little load
due to a controller, drivetrain or driver failure. The weak link should be
a failure that doesn't throw shrapnel.
Some factory ICE's, in the search for more stroke, get to the point where
the designer can no longer fit enough crankshaft counterweight inside the
motor. At that point they start using severly off balance flywheels and
harmonic balancers to make up for the absent crank counterweights. These
engines need to be balanced with vibration dampener and flywheel in place.
In this case, there may be extra metal cast into the flywheel that is not at
the outer edge. You don't want to use one of these, so if you use an ICE
flywheel, make sure it was a balanced flywheel to begin with. Most are, but
I'd double check.
When I was racing, whenever I'd have my flywheel resurfaced, I'd have it
balanced. In this case they drilled the outer edge, or into the back near
the outer edge. It was not balanced with the engine, because the engine had
been balanced independantly.
I'd imagine taking the ring gear off is no problem, and maching off some of
the diameter might be ok, but for the sake of not giving conversions a bad
name, we all need to make sure that we know what will happen if we overrev
and we're not driving past people with potential hand grenades under the
hood. We're not just risking blowing our own feet off. Others could be
injured.
Also, I've seen a lot of flywheels that had recesses in the back side to
keep overall weight down, with a lot of thickness near the outer edge where
the same weight provides more momentum. I'd think that outer edge is
providing a lot of stiffness to prevent heat warping. I'd be worried about
taking too much of that off.
Before going to a lot of trouble and expense to modify a stock flywheel, I'd
at least try to find a lightweight competition flywheel to use.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hankins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'GWMobile'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: Automatic or Manual?
Breathe...
This has all been debunked. The flywheel is not going to come apart unless
it is damaged in the process of or after it has been modified, And then
only
if the modder is a total moron.
The fly wheel is just a forged slug of steel. It would literally take
hundreds of thousands of RPMs to cause one to explode even if it is
damaged.
More likely is if it were unbalanced at that rpm it would cause something
else to fail from the vibration and remain intact itself.
Balancing that is done to compensate for the unbalances in the ICE are
done
by drilling the outer edge. So... if you remove say the outer 1-2" of the
edge you have removed any "unbalancing" that may have existed.
So if you just remove the outer portion down to with in 3/4" of the bolt
holes for the pressure plate, you will be able to sleep at night knowing
that the world is safe once again. Everything outside this diameter is for
mass and has to do with the low rpm characteristic of the ICE engine, not
the clutch, not the starter, and most certainly not structural integrity.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: GWMobile [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:51 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Automatic or Manual?
The key phrase is the "material not required for structural integrity".
Since no one is really going to know that, you are better off buying a
lighter flywheel that is designed to be light.
Otherwise you might as well guess how much rubber to scrap off your tire
sidewalls to make them lighter as well.
On Fri, 4 May 2007 1:14 pm, Marty Hewes wrote:
This is another thing that sends shivers up my spine, the thought of
lightening a flywheel. Be very, very sure the person who's doing it
knows what they are doing. There is a lot of centrifugal force acting
on a flywheel when they are spinning, and they have been known to fly
apart if they are structurally compromised, even just overheated a few
too many times. Don Garlits (the first guy into the 7's), I believe,
lost a big chunk of his foot to a flywheel explosion.
Back when I was racing, there were rules about that sort of thing. If
you wanted a light flywheel, you bought one that was approved. Even
then, in the faster classes, you ran a scattershield, pretty much a
bullet proof bell housing, or what amounts to a bullet proof vest for
the trans. In stock classes, you could run a stock flywheel, but I
suspect they'd frown upon having it lightened. In my camaros, I ran an
aluminum race flywheel, and a factory high performance lightweight
steel flywheel. Neither was terribly expensive. Depending on what
you're driving, you may be able to buy one for not much more than the
cost of the machine work anyway. There used to be places around that
could make flywheels for anything to spec.
Marty
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Hankins"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
A flywheel can be made "light" for EV use as you don't need the outer
Gear
ring for the starter and you don't need all that mass to keep the motor
running smoothly at idle or to keep you from stalling the motor at low
rpms.
So, you can machine off the outer diameter down to only the area
needed for
the clutch. The thickness can be reduced and any additional material
not
required for structural integrity can be removed with further
machining and
drilling.
David
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Randy> Would someone PLEASE contact Leno and offer to take him for a
Randy> spin in their eRAV4?
Hell, if you can contact him, at least point him to these couple of threads
in the archives so perhaps we can hear straight from the horse's mouth what
he things of EVs.
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NOTE: May meeting canceled!!
You are invited to attend the Chico chapter of the Electric Auto Association
or "EAA".
Learn more about:
. Electric automobiles
. How to convert a car to electric
. Hybrid automobiles
. Fuel cell powered automobiles
. Compressed natural gas automobiles
The regular meeting date of May 12th has been CANCELED and rescheduled to
June 9th.
NEW Date: Saturday, June 9th from 11 am. The meeting is FREE, and all are
welcome.
Join us at Chuck Alldrin's home located at:
930 West 11th Ave
Chico, CA 95926
530-899-1835
Directions:
Go West on 11th Ave.. 1/4 mile past Holly on the North side. Look for the
black mailbox and Birch trees.
We need you at the meeting to help our new EAA chapter in Chico. If you are
not now affiliated with a local chapter, we would welcome you to transfer to
our chapter.
EV's of all types (i.e.: autos, scooters, skateboards) and Hybrids are
welcome.
For more information call:
Chuck Alldrin
530-899-1835
www.energy-alternatives.com
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***************************************************************
Chuck Alldrin Chico, CA. KN6JS Ham call
"If my people...will humble themselves and pray...I will heal their land."
II Chronicles 7:14
***************************************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jody> Tesla is making great strides in cost reduction.
How can we tell that at this point? Clearly Tesla's intent is to move
down-market, however I think it's far from certain that they will be able to
achieve their stated goals at this point. Have they released enough
parameters for the White Star sedan to suggest they can meet their $50k-$60k
price point?
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think we can take him for his word. The first time the Tesla was sold
it went for $125K. Now it is being sold for $96K. Right now they are
being made by hand but they are ramping up production line procedures
and working towards more automation. It just takes time. I believe for
them to survive they will have to improve production efficiency to get
the cost down in the market. The testimony he gave to congress said the
had planned on having the $30K car ready by the end of next year.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 11:23
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
Jody> Tesla is making great strides in cost reduction.
How can we tell that at this point? Clearly Tesla's intent is to move
down-market, however I think it's far from certain that they will be
able to achieve their stated goals at this point. Have they released
enough parameters for the White Star sedan to suggest they can meet
their $50k-$60k price point?
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/ "The
hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties, but the
geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chuck,
Are you familiar with Bryan of Belktronix?
Thanks in advance,
--Timothy Balcer, EVDL
On 5/7/07, eb1chuck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
NOTE: May meeting canceled!!
You are invited to attend the Chico chapter of the Electric Auto Association
or "EAA".
Learn more about:
. Electric automobiles
. How to convert a car to electric
. Hybrid automobiles
. Fuel cell powered automobiles
. Compressed natural gas automobiles
The regular meeting date of May 12th has been CANCELED and rescheduled to
June 9th.
NEW Date: Saturday, June 9th from 11 am. The meeting is FREE, and all are
welcome.
Join us at Chuck Alldrin's home located at:
930 West 11th Ave
Chico, CA 95926
530-899-1835
Directions:
Go West on 11th Ave.. 1/4 mile past Holly on the North side. Look for the
black mailbox and Birch trees.
We need you at the meeting to help our new EAA chapter in Chico. If you are
not now affiliated with a local chapter, we would welcome you to transfer to
our chapter.
EV's of all types (i.e.: autos, scooters, skateboards) and Hybrids are
welcome.
For more information call:
Chuck Alldrin
530-899-1835
www.energy-alternatives.com
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***************************************************************
Chuck Alldrin Chico, CA. KN6JS Ham call
"If my people...will humble themselves and pray...I will heal their land."
II Chronicles 7:14
***************************************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Whoops. That showed up in my inbox :)
Sorry for the spam! :)
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Including the original receipt, never installed, ready to ship, from
Pittsburgh, PA.
As soon as I have some time to write it up I'll explain why I don't have
an EV on the road in PA already; In the meantime, I don't need a new
charger, and sorely need the money.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy,
If you have 60-70% of your batteries on the rear wheels then remove the rear
porportioning valve for better braking. I've done this on my Electro-Metro
for 120k miles, my E-Jeep for 50k miles and now my E-Porsche. I think otmar
has done as well on his. I also used the smaller 17mm master brake cilinder
so I don't need a vacuum booster.
BTW, if folk's are stopping by the LA,Cal Wind Expo June 3-7 email me so we
can meet mark.hanson_at_synchrony.com
have a renewable energy day.
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
Well, it's completely possible to make a PIC with a software 1-wire on
an optically isolated bus. It requires 2 pins off the PIC to drive the
one bus and this is fairly straightforward.
Why have a computer on every battery? If all he want to do is measure
each battery's voltage, all that's needed is a central "box" to measure
voltage (could be just a multimeter or analog meter), and the relays to
select which battery it measures. If you don't like mechanical relays,
use solid state relays.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Timothy Balcer wrote:
The Solectria systems are air cooled, and the fella with the Sunrise
has said that it is tough to stay cruising on the highway for long
periods because it overheats. Then again he may not be ducting air
over it, or he might be driving it only in the summertime :)
Solectria favored air cooling and were focused on efficiency. They
tended to use undersized fans (to save power) and undersized air vents
(to improve aerodynamics). They also were in Massachusetts, and didn't
plan much for really high ambient temperatures.
Siemens favored liquid cooling, like traditional automotive systems
where everything is liquid cooled. It's more complex and expensive, but
better able to deal with high ambient temperatures.
Also, Solectria is defunct as a company.
Solectria sold out to Azure, which is still selling and supporting them
(though service may still be a weak point).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<snip>
Solectria sold out to Azure, which is still selling and supporting them
(though service may still be a weak point).
Thanks Lee. I didn't know Azure was still selling the units.
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When did he testify before congress?
Does anyone have it on youtube?
On Mon, 7 May 2007 9:41 am, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
wrote:
I think we can take him for his word. The first time the Tesla was
sold
it went for $125K. Now it is being sold for $96K. Right now they are
being made by hand but they are ramping up production line procedures
and working towards more automation. It just takes time. I believe
for
them to survive they will have to improve production efficiency to get
the cost down in the market. The testimony he gave to congress said
the
had planned on having the $30K car ready by the end of next year.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 11:23
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
Jody> Tesla is making great strides in cost reduction.
How can we tell that at this point? Clearly Tesla's intent is to move
down-market, however I think it's far from certain that they will be
able to achieve their stated goals at this point. Have they released
enough parameters for the White Star sedan to suggest they can meet
their $50k-$60k price point?
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/ "The
hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties, but the
geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The owner of Tesla motors did. Here is his testimony
http://www.finance.senate.gov/sitepages/hearing050107.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of GWMobile
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 14:22
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
When did he testify before congress?
Does anyone have it on youtube?
On Mon, 7 May 2007 9:41 am, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
wrote:
> I think we can take him for his word. The first time the Tesla was
> sold it went for $125K. Now it is being sold for $96K. Right now
> they are being made by hand but they are ramping up production line
> procedures and working towards more automation. It just takes time.
> I believe for them to survive they will have to improve production
> efficiency to get the cost down in the market. The testimony he gave
> to congress said the had planned on having the $30K car ready by the
> end of next year.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 11:23
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Jay Leno no friend of electric cars.
>
>
> Jody> Tesla is making great strides in cost reduction.
>
> How can we tell that at this point? Clearly Tesla's intent is to move
> down-market, however I think it's far from certain that they will be
> able to achieve their stated goals at this point. Have they released
> enough parameters for the White Star sedan to suggest they can meet
> their $50k-$60k price point?
>
> --
> Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/ "The
> hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties, but the
> geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know how the ones in like the Toyota MR2 for instance
work? Do they run constantly or are they computer controlled?
They are computer controlled in the MR2 :) But they don't HAVE to be...
Without a controller the pump will draw 10-15A with the steering wheel in
the neutral position and 70-80A during a hard turn. The pump has 2 big
wires for the motor and smaller wires for a brush wear indicator.
MR2 EHPS used without controller:
http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/convpgs/psteer.php
MR2 EHPS used with controller:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/mr2_powersteering.html
Some background: The MR2 EHPS pump was used to increase engine power at
high speeds. Belt driven pumps rob lots of power at high RPM, when power
steering isn't needed. The EHPS pump still uses engine power (from the
alternator), but can be turned down/off by the car computer. IIRC, the MR2
gradually reduces power assist above 30MPH to zero assist @ 85MPH. Pump
speed is based on vehicle speed and how far the steering wheel is turned.
A generic 12V PWM controller could be used to "dial in" a lower assist
rate in a simple setup.
I was going to use a MR2 pump in my VW, but none of the local shops would
make the hydraulic lines. Probably for the best as my DC/DC hasn't been
keeping my 12V battery charged very well lately. Maybe I can add power
steering to my Toyota pickup conversion...
Adrian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Better yet, get an adjustable racing braking proportioning valve.
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Monday, May 7, 2007 10:26:41 AM
Subject: Brake Rear Pressure Porportioning Valve
Howdy,
If you have 60-70% of your batteries on the rear wheels then remove the rear
porportioning valve for better braking. I've done this on my Electro-Metro
for 120k miles, my E-Jeep for 50k miles and now my E-Porsche. I think otmar
has done as well on his. I also used the smaller 17mm master brake cilinder
so I don't need a vacuum booster.
...
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you have any titles/authors recommendations
--- Timothy Balcer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The whole business of building with molded
> fiberglass over foam and
> etc is extremely well covered in boat building
> books.. much much
> better than the small article by RQRiley. If you
> want to research how
> to do cored foam structures that can take stress,
> look at those
> techniques. You're looking for books on how to do
> 'one-off' boats in
> fiberglass that are not wood core or cold molded.
> They'll detail how
> to setup an inexpensive vacuum pump, what materials
> to use and not to
> use, techniques, safety, and so on.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sweet :)
MR2 EHPS used with controller:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/mr2_powersteering.html
I might try that.
Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How does this affect the wear on drum brakes?
(disk brakes are SO much easier to replace)....
Are there aftermarket kits to convert drum rear-ends
to disk (+min-drum, for emergency brakes)?
"Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/07/2007 13:26
Please respond to
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
cc
Subject
Brake Rear Pressure Porportioning Valve
Howdy,
If you have 60-70% of your batteries on the rear wheels then remove the
rear
porportioning valve for better braking. I've done this on my
Electro-Metro
for 120k miles, my E-Jeep for 50k miles and now my E-Porsche. I think
otmar
has done as well on his. I also used the smaller 17mm master brake
cilinder
so I don't need a vacuum booster.
BTW, if folk's are stopping by the LA,Cal Wind Expo June 3-7 email me so
we
can meet mark.hanson_at_synchrony.com
have a renewable energy day.
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the ultralight, kit, and sport pilot aircraft world has a wealth of info and
expertise too.
start with Aircraft Spruce and google outward. Lots of people have made how-to
websites on their planes.
HTH
JF
keith vansickle wrote:
Do you have any titles/authors recommendations
--- Timothy Balcer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The whole business of building with molded
fiberglass over foam
--- End Message ---
