EV Digest 6772
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: $30K EVs available in Italy and Switzerland
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: magnetic field in EV car? Never ending story!
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: magnetic field in EV car?
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: magnetic field in EV car?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Zilla Hairball Grounding
by "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: magnetic field in EV car?/ AC Motor Frequency
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) ET Alert :: The status of the EV calendar project :: Very Important
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: My Watt-hour / mile with comments on battery cycle life and DOD
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: magnetic field in EV car?/ AC Motor Frequency
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Zilla Hairball Grounding
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: Zilla Hairball Grounding
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Zilla Hairball Grounding
by "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: magnetic field in EV car?/ AC Motor Frequency
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Electric Power Steering
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: BMS (Battery Management System (Was: 1-Wire Expertise)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Electric Power Steering
by "Thomas Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Electric Power Steering
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Electric Power Steering
by "midiguy732" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Electric Power Steering/YARIS
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Electric Power Steering/YARIS
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Electric Power Steering/YARIS
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---On 14 May 2007 at 18:41, Kaido Kert wrote: > Fiat Panda .... has gotten a electric makeover. > I wonder what the price would be if built straight in Fiat factories ? At one time - I believe it was in the late 1980s and into the 90s - Fiat offered a factory conversion, the Panda Elettra. It was a fairly ordinary DC conversion (72 volts, IIRC). I think it was intended mostly for institutional users. http://electroauto.sweb.cz/panda_elettra.html David Roden EVDL Administrator http://www.evdl.org/help/
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--- Begin Message ---Ah! Yeah! My radio NEVER worked worth a shit in the EV anyhow. But Idon't feel at any loss as my Cassette Victrola record tapes work just FINE.I guess CD's work too, but haven't made any yet. They say you can BUY them,nowadaze, IF there was anything I would WANT to buy?CD's!! man you are in the dark ages:D ... Have you heard of something called iPod?LOL Tehben
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--- Begin Message ---Very Interesting.Also it is interesting that all life on earth with a brain has evolved a primary brain frequency similiar to the primary range of the schuman resonance around 7 to 8 hz - not surprising since all life evolved in this field.So what are all these 60hz waves from the grid doing to our brains?Does anyone know what frequency of AC that the Solectra and Siemens inverters make? Is it the regular 60hz. I guess Europe has something different.
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--- Begin Message ---Hi Tehben, It depends on the AC drive system, but these are variable frequency drives as the speed of the motor depends on the frequency. Most run between zero and 400 Hz. Jeff --- Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >snip< > Does anyone know what frequency of AC that the > Solectra and Siemens > inverters make? Is it the regular 60hz. I guess > Europe has something > different. > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/
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--- Begin Message ---Is the Hairball chassis mounting holes isolated form the chassis grounding pin on the upper connector in the wiring diagrams. I plan to keep my frame/body isolated from the battery pack and 12V system, running separate grounding wires for all connections. If I mount the hairball to my frame will it tie the frame/body to the 12V return line connected to the Chassis GND pin on the top connector? me
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--- Begin Message ---So the AC controllers actually vary the frequency depending on speed?A shop power tool just runs on 60hz right? or do all variable speed AC motors change frequency depending on speed?On May 14, 2007, at 9:56 AM, Jeff Major wrote:Hi Tehben, It depends on the AC drive system, but these are variable frequency drives as the speed of the motor depends on the frequency. Most run between zero and 400 Hz. Jeff --- Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:snip< Does anyone know what frequency of AC that the Solectra and Siemens inverters make? Is it the regular 60hz. I guess Europe has something different.______________________________________________________________________ ______________Ready for the edge of your seat?Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/
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--- Begin Message ---I saw some of the photo's and some are very good. Some of it is typical sexy babes with cars. In this case green cars with sexy babes. Lawrence Rhodes.... . Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [EMAIL PROTECTED] cleannewworld Date: Sat May 12, 2007 1:16 pm ((PDT)) Dear ET List, The EV calendar project was started by myself at Electrifying Times magazine. Last year I invited model Jon Mack to help us in the production of EV pin-up calendar shoots in LA. Subsequently, she has allowed her business manager Marco Berrios an appropriation attempt of this calendar project as their own, by locking Electrifying Times out of the evcalendar myspace page (Where I was naive enough to let Jon Mack use her own email address to create the page) where I spent a month inviting over 800 models, photographers and EV professionals. Jon Mack and Marco Berrios last week created their own evcalendar website, and are now trying to incorporate the EVe name, which completely excludes the fact this is my networking, industry contacts, etc... which brought all these EVe shoots into existence. Jon Mack had the idea of calling the calendar EVe, by adding a lower case "e"... This does not entitle her to sole ownership of this project. Electrifying Times magazine is now planning legal action against Jon Mack and Marco Berrios. The EV calendar project, or EVe, either way, is the property of Electrifying Times magazine. Jon Mack's role was to serve as co-producer, to assist us in the scheduling and organization of EV pin-up shoots in LA. This transparent take-over attempt terminates this association. I want the EV community to be made aware of this, so the EV industry knows what's going on with the Electrifying Times EV calendar girl project, so Jon Mack and Marco Berrios be barred from access to electric vehicles to be used in photography associated with the production of what is now a competing EV calendar project. Electrifying Times is the official print media sponsor for the EnvironmentalMotors dealership event at the Gibson Guitars showroom in Beverly Hills in a few days. The centerfold in the magazine (which will be offered to all the guests at this event) clearly states the EVe project to be a Jon Mack/RemyC production, in collaboration with Electrifying Times. Jon Mack has been removed from that association due to her take over attempt. Jon Mack and Marco Berrios are appropriating something that was never theirs to make their own. This is putting everybody involved with EVe in a very awkward position, I realize this... Electrifying Times aims to fight for rightful ownership of this project, something we nurtured for a long time, trusted Jon Mack to assist us with, she was made photo editor at the magazine... this evidently was not enough for Jon Mack and her business manager... they wanted to appropriate the whole property as their own. We will not allow this to happen, and will fight it in the courts if we have to. We're simply hoping Jon Mack will come to her senses, stand down, cease and desist on evcalendar.com and either return access to the myspace evcalendar page or delete the account, for these are are not their industry contacts to acquire in this fashion. Again, I apologize for this message, but we have been left no other choice but to fight for what is rightfully ours at the magazine. All the images in the calendar girls section of our website were produced under the hospices of Electrifying Times's friends and colleagues, are property of the photographers, who are free to do as they please with them... except, in good faith, award them to what is now a competing EV calendar project, which was built from our network. The EV calendar project remains firmly with Electrifying Times magazine. The project will continue to grow, this is but a temporary set back. New models and photographers wanting to participate in this great project are coming on board every day. Electrifying Times has been around since 1994... there isn't a single professional in the electric vehicle community who doesn't know this has been something Electrifying Times has been working on for a long, long time... Now that it's suddenly in "vogue"... with green super models posing with EVs in Vanity Fair (shoots which by the way, Electrifying Times played a role in orchestrating, uncredited) we will not let a couple of savvy business sharks usurp our labor of love for financial gain. The Electrifying Times EV calendar was meant to be a fun, tongue in cheek celebration of the EV industry... We will not let something like this spoil the EV party. Sincerely, RemyC. ET webed
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--- Begin Message ---Interesting---computing the normalized lifetime %CAP delivered as f(DOD), AGMs are more affected by %DOD over their life than GELs: Normalized lifetime %CAP as f(DOD) vs 10%DODcap %DOD Gel AGM 100 79 49 80 84 52 50 88 60 25 92 75 10 100 100 Is this why some folks prefer gels for EVs? -Myles Twete, Portland, Or. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kip C. Anderson Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 7:02 AM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: My Watt-hour / mile with comments on battery cycle life and DOD ----- Original Message ----- From: "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: RE: My Watt-hour / mile with comments on battery cycle life and DOD > - Here's a table that shows that from Deka; > > typical VLRA life cycles > > capacity withdrawn (%) Gel AGM > 100 450 150 > 80 600 200 > 50 1000 370 > 25 2100 925 > 10 5700 3100 > Putting this another way, 25% DOD will provide about 10% more capacity than 80% DOD over the life cycle of the batteries for gel cells, and as much as 44% more lifetime capacity for AGMs. Clearly this suggests that an extra 10% for gel batteries may be worth compromising if it meets other constraints, but AGMs provide a much stronger argument for accurately assessing range needs. Am I missing anything? - Kip
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--- Begin Message ---Tehben, Those shop power tool motors are universal motors, I am guessing. That is a series wound commutator motor which operates like a series wound DC motor except the polarity of the armature and field reverse 120 times a second when AC (60 Hz) is applied. With those, voltage control will control speed. The AC motors used for propulsion are induction motors which are brushless. They require both voltage and frequency control for speed control (and torque control). Jeff --- Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So the AC controllers actually vary the frequency > depending on speed? > A shop power tool just runs on 60hz right? or do all > variable speed > AC motors change frequency depending on speed? > > On May 14, 2007, at 9:56 AM, Jeff Major wrote: > > > > > Hi Tehben, > > > > It depends on the AC drive system, but these are > > variable frequency drives as the speed of the > motor > > depends on the frequency. Most run between zero > and > > 400 Hz. > > > > Jeff > > > > > > --- Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> snip< > >> Does anyone know what frequency of AC that the > >> Solectra and Siemens > >> inverters make? Is it the regular 60hz. I guess > >> Europe has something > >> different. > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > ______________Ready for the edge of your seat? > > Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. > > http://tv.yahoo.com/ > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
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--- Begin Message ---Hello Mark, What I did was install a large 1/4 thick aluminum chassis plate on a steel chassis plate with those 1/4 inch rubber inserts that have a 1/4 inch nut embedded in it, something like a insolated nut plate. This unit is inserted in a 1/2 hole in the steel plate and the aluminum plate is mounted on these inserts. I mounted the hair ball, motor controller, and main contactor on this aluminum chassis plate with the same type of rubber nut inserts. You can get these inserts from some hard ware stores such as Ace Hardware or Home Depot. I also use nylon tubing which you can get in different lengths, which are also call nylon spacers at these stores. I tapped the spacer for a 10/32 thread, and use it as a insulated stand offs for mounting a ground buss system around the EV. I than tap of these standoff junctions I want to have a negative 12 volt connected to. I connected to two places on the hair ball feet, one at each end and than a short ground wire, not longer than 4 inches to pin # 1 on the hair ball. I also connected to two places on the motor controller. Made a small grounding counter poise system in the control panel enclosure for different grounding pick up points. I also have a separate ground buss system that comes off the battery that does also ties to the vehicle chassis. This 12 volt system is isolated from the main batteries which does not supply the 12 V DC supply anyway. I also have DC-DC converters that do come off the main pack, and this circuit is isolated from the frame and is contactor disconnected when the main battery is charging. According to Otmar of Café Electric, the motor controller and hairball should be grounded. In some EV's where there is no isolation, this may be also a grounding pickup point. Roland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:06 PM Subject: Zilla Hairball Grounding > Is the Hairball chassis mounting holes isolated form the chassis > grounding pin on the upper connector in the wiring diagrams. I plan to > keep my frame/body isolated from the battery pack and 12V system, > running separate grounding wires for all connections. If I mount the > hairball to my frame will it tie the frame/body to the 12V return line > connected to the Chassis GND pin on the top connector? me > >
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--- Begin Message ---Maxwell actually has an ultracap system made for electric vehicles: BMOD0018-P390 (HTM390) 390 Volt Heavy Duty Transportation Module Nominal Operating voltage [Vdc] 390V Maximum Continuous Current [A] 150A Max current [A] 950A Energy Available (Whr) 282 So maybe a couple of these could get you down the track. :) > Hi Joseph, > > Those audio caps are not going to do the job. But > ultracapacitors can. BYU has a dragster powered by > Maxwell ultracaps. See > > > http://www.earthtoys.com/emagazine.php?issue_number=04.04.01&article=dragster > > > You can find more about them. Try searching if > interested. > > Jeff > > > > --- Joseph Lado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Has anyone thought of using those audio capacitors >> to power a dragster EV? I found an 80 Farad >> capacitor by Pyle which in a 120Volt set up should >> give me about 10 seconds at 1000 amps. Five >> capacitors would cost about $2,500.00. They come >> with a warning that says they can explode. What is >> that about? What do you think? >> >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Get > the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of > spyware protection. > http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php > >
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--- Begin Message ---Eidson, Mark wrote:No. Although they should not be relied on as a good ground for the Hairball's electronics since the powder coating provides some insulation. In your case you will need isolated standoffs.Is the Hairball chassis mounting holes isolated form the chassis grounding pin on the upper connector in the wiring diagrams.Mark
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--- Begin Message ---I presume that the Zilla chassis is isolated from the battery pack + and -. Me -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Farver Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:36 PM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: Zilla Hairball Grounding Eidson, Mark wrote: > Is the Hairball chassis mounting holes isolated form the chassis > grounding pin on the upper connector in the wiring diagrams. No. Although they should not be relied on as a good ground for the Hairball's electronics since the powder coating provides some insulation. In your case you will need isolated standoffs. Mark
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--- Begin Message ---So the AC controllers actually vary the frequency depending on speed? A shop power tool just runs on 60hz right? or do all variable speed AC motors change frequency depending on speed? Some inexpensive variable-speed AC motors use a high-slip rotor and just vary the voltage going to the motor. It's cheap and works ok but not very efficient. My scroll saw motor is like that. So is the motor on my kitchen fan. Some variable-speed motors (like on an electric drill) are a universal motor - they'll run on AC or DC. You just vary the voltage. They are, in fact, a very close relative to the Advanced DC series-wound motors used by a lot of DIY EV's. Some variable speed induction motors use a variable resistor and brushes to vary the slip. This used to be more common on industrial machines, for example, factory conveyors. None of these, at least in an AC system, are particularly relevant to EV's. A lot of modern variable-speed AC motors (for example, the motor on our CNC lathe in the back of our shop) use a standard three-phase variable frequency drive. This nifty box takes 60 Hz AC at 208 volts (or maybe some other voltage), converts it to 320 volts DC (again, or maybe some other voltage), then re-converts it to a frequency other than (or maybe the same as) 60 Hz, and at some voltage other than (or maybe the same as) what comes out of the wall. But it's fully decoupled. If I want to run my lathe at 4400 RPM (instead of 1750 RPM), I apply somewhere around 150 Hz to it, although the torque will be limited because I cannot apply 500 volts to it - I am limited by my 320 volt battery voltage to around 200 volts AC to the motor. In an EV application, because the efficiency needs to be high, normally the motor is designed to have low slip, and electronics and software is used to make the motor operate nicely in a vehicle, ie. you control torque and not frequency with your foot. Obviously you don't need to do the AC to DC conversion because you have DC available at the battery. Because you are trying to control torque in an EV, the controller first measures the speed of the motor, figures out how fast it is going, then drives with a slightly faster frequency if you want to get power from the battery to the road, or with a slightly lower frequency if you want to get power from the road to the battery (regenerative braking). The amount of frequency difference varies the amount of torque going to or from the road. The actual calculations the controllers do are more complicated than that, but basically this is the effect. The controller has to coordinate changing the applied voltage and the applied frequency in the most efficient manner, so that logic gets a bit tricky in the guts of the controller, but this is the bathroom-reader version. There are actually a lot of internet resources explaining how variable-frequency drives work, and a quick read through some of those might really help your understanding of them. Note that some AC systems use permanent magnet motors (brushless DC), and the operation of them is slightly different than an AC induction motor, but the electronic parts are actually identical between them. -Dale
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--- Begin Message --- "one amp for one sec at one volt" is a joule- a unit of energy, not capacitance. A 1 Farad capacitor drops at a rate of one volt per sec when providing a current of one amp. We are more used to seeing the "decay" curve which happens when you put a resistive load on it- as the voltage drops, the current drops, so the capacitor's voltage change flattens out. This is simply a consequence of the above rule combined with Ohm's Law: current=voltage/resistance.It is important to see the limits of how much of a cap's voltage is usable. For example, if your motor will only produce a satisfactory speed or acceleration with a source voltage of 80V or more, and you charge it from a 120V battery, only the capacity from 120V to 80V is usable.In attempts to stiffen a battery pack, you might have a situation where your 120V pack sags to 90V under a hard acceleration and you get the idea that you want to limit the sag to 110V by putting a big cap in parallel. The prob there is that the cap's energy is only used when voltage changes. There's only using 16% of the cap's energy stored between 120V and 110V. Unfortunately, capacitive storage takes quite a lot of volume, weight, expense, and a whole lot of little interconnects so trying to build in that much capacity while only being able to use the top 16% may mean it's completely impractical without a change in technology such as Maxwell Ultracaps, although even those are still too expensive to justify their use.Danny Christopher Robison wrote:On Mon, May 14, 2007 4:42 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Just wanted to ask cause I don't quite understand some of the electric engineering stuff yet - I did a quick check to understand how much energy a Farad is, and it's listed as an ampere-second. So using that, wouldn't it take 10,000 Farads to put out a 1000 amps for 10 seconds?A farad is one ampere for one second at one volt. I should let more knowledgeable people than myself respond to this, but I think this would be true only if your load were able to draw a continuous 1000 amps, regardless of the cap voltage which declines linearly during discharge. In practice in an EV, the current from your batteries or cap bank would start out low, approaching motor amps as you increase speed. (Horsepower, and therefore battery current, increases with speed, assuming relatively constant torque).Why is it the capacity goes down when they are put in series?Google for "capacitors in series". For example, this page (the first hit) has a good explanation: www.play-hookey.com/dc_theory/series_capacitors.html
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--- Begin Message ---Has anyone seen this: http://www.gmcanada.com/gm/english/vehicles/ chevrolet/hhr/model01 The Chevy HHR has Speed-sensitive rack-and-pinion electric power steering. Here is a steering column on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ CHEVROLET-GM-HHR-ELECTRIC-POWER-STEERING-COLUMN- NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33589QQihZ002QQitemZ120118019471QQrdZ1QQs spagenameZWDVWIt looks like it is direct drive rather then hydraulic but I can't find any more specs on it.Tehben
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--- Begin Message ---Cor van de Water wrote:I am approaching this from the other direction: use as simple as possible electronics (a handful of resistors, opamp, powerFET and opto-coupler to achieve the following functions: - low voltage detect (so driver can reduce battery current and avoid reversal) - high voltage detect (point where charger needs throttle back) - current bypassing for equalizationI posted a circuit like this a couple years ago. At each battery there is a bridge circuit with two zeners, and two resistors. The LEDs of two optocouplers are connected back-to-back to sense which way the bridge unbalances; undervoltage turns on one opto; overvoltage turns on the other. You can make the bypass current for overvoltage as high as you like with a load resistor.The isolated transistor output side of these optos are wired in a row/column matrix, so a single flat cable goes back to your dashboard. For example, 8 batteries need 16 optos; 16 = 4x4 matrix, so an 8-wire cable.At the dashboard end, the phototransistors are also wired in a row/column matrix. A simple RC oscillator and counter (4011 and two 4017s) scans the matrix. You can have separate high/low LEDs for each battery, or a single high/low indicator plus LEDs to tell which battery it is. Turn a pot wide open and it counts so fast the display is a blur, and shows the average; turn the speed way down and you can "park" on whichever one is too high or too low.You can even add a microcomputer if you like. :-) -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Tried to pull up both of the hyper lincs. Neither on of them work.
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--- Begin Message ---Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Electric Power Steering/YARIS Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 15:21:15 -0700 To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Yes- the motor is just below the steering wheel and very small. On May 14, 2007, at 3:09 PM, Tehben Dean wrote: > So is it geared rather that hydraulic? > > On May 14, 2007, at 1:56 PM, Mark Dutko wrote: > >> The yaris has EPS, the motor is on the column under the dash and >> silent, there is a cpu and torque sensor for speed as well. The >> feel is very good, at least the few hundred miles I drove before >> taking the car apart. >> >> M >> On May 14, 2007, at 2:45 PM, midiguy732 wrote: >> >>> Another source for electrically assisted power steering is the >>> Saturn >>> Vue and related vehicles. >>> >>> The electric steering is coupled via a variable clutch and >>> triggered by >>> the rotation of the steering shaft inside the column as well as the >>> overall speed of the vehicle. If you do not move the steering >>> wheel, >>> the attached motor/coupling assembly does absolutely nothing drawing >>> minimal power. >>> >>> It's a variable system: Less vehicle speed, more assist. More >>> vehicle >>> speed, less assist. This makes parallel parking easier (low >>> speed) and >>> gives you decent road feel (higher speed). If you're a "serious" >>> driver >>> it doesn't really "feel" right but for a utilitarian vehicle it's >>> perfectly fine. For an electric vehicle I would think it's an ideal >>> solution since you don't have an engine (or motor) spinning >>> constantly >>> where you could drive a standard power steering pump as is >>> "tradition". >>> >>> If your vehicle is small and light enough, a manual rack is the >>> way to >>> go, as it's much less complicated than any kind of power steering >>> system >>> and in a smaller vehicle it's easy enough to steer with, and even >>> parallel park if you had to. Roll the vehicle while turning the >>> wheel >>> and you'll find it much easier than trying to wrench the steering >>> while >>> while you're vehicle is standing in place. >>> >>> Those of us who remember "old cars" without such options remember >>> manual >>> steering very well. Good for the back muscles :) >>> >>> As a side note, power steering pumps are self-bypassing. This means >>> that when you don't need the pressure to move the steering rack (or >>> steering gearbox) minimal pressure is applied to the hoses that >>> feed the >>> rack or box. In the case of an EV where you don't have constant >>> spinning of a motor or engine, you could eliminate this bypass in >>> the >>> pump, and attach the pump directly to the back of the EV's >>> motor. Then >>> use two smallish high pressure storage tanks, one feeding the >>> pump and >>> one being fed by the pump, and connect those tanks to the >>> steering rack >>> or box, with valving. As you move the steering, pressure will be >>> drawn >>> from the pressurized tank, and returned to the empty tank. Then >>> when >>> you spin the EV's motor, the pressure can be restored when the power >>> steering pump is spun again in unison with the EV motor. >>> >>> But of course that adds weight and some complexity, but then you >>> can use >>> older, cheaper, more available technology like the normal hydraulic >>> power steering systems of today. >>> >>> Hope that helps. >>> >>> Frederic >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> On >>>> Behalf Of Tehben Dean >>>> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 4:33 PM >>>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu >>>> Subject: Re: Electric Power Steering >>>> >>>> >>>> Has anyone seen this: http://www.gmcanada.com/gm/english/vehicles/ >>>> chevrolet/hhr/model01 >>>> The Chevy HHR has Speed-sensitive rack-and-pinion electric power >>>> steering. >>>> Here is a steering column on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ >>>> CHEVROLET-GM-HHR-ELECTRIC-POWER-STEERING-COLUMN- >>>> >>> NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33589QQihZ002QQitemZ120118019471QQrdZ >>> 1QQs >>>> spagenameZWDVW >>>> >>>> It looks like it is direct drive rather then hydraulic but I can't >>>> find any more specs on it. >>>> >>>> Tehben >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: >>> 5/13/2007 >>>> 12:17 PM >>>> >>> >>> >> > >
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