EV Digest 6774
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Fw: magnetic field in EV car? Never ending story!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile - cruise control
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE, 48 volt motor
by Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) re mag field?????
by Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: $30K EVs available in Italy and Switzerland
by John Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: magnetic field in EV car? Never ending story!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Contactor Controller Page
by Rob&Amy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: BMS (Battery Management System (Was: 1-Wire Expertise)
by Rob&Amy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Charging timer
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Contactor Controller Page
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters 400F 85-amps 5 seconds
230 amps 1 seconds
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Rapid-fire pulse brings Sandia Z method closer to goal of high-yield
fusion reactor
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Charging timer
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Charging timer
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: LTC - Lithium Technology Corp. Lithium batteries
by "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: magnetic field in EV car? Never ending story!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 11:22 PM
> Subject: Re: magnetic field in EV car?
>
>
> > There is always the possibility electric fields will have good effects!
>
> > Yeah! Maybe this thread, wire, will GO AWAY?!
>
> For Heaven's sakes! Electricity has been in common use for OVER 100
years,
> doesn't seem to effect us too much? Look at the rise in population,
> nowadays!?Well, you COULD make a point with all the nutty people out
there.
> The Best Govt Oil Money can Buy, comes to mind. No names here<g>!
>
> > Also perhpas a strong magnetic field in the car would serve to disrupt
> > the huge amounts of radio waves all around us now and basically keep
> > them away!
> > Could be good.
>
> > Ah! Yeah! My radio NEVER worked worth a shit in the EV anyhow. But I
> don't feel at any loss as my Cassette Victrola record tapes work just
FINE.
> I guess CD's work too, but haven't made any yet. They say you can BUY
> them,nowadaze, IF there was anything I would WANT to buy?
>
> Manmade electrical fields? Gees! Any OTHER kinds? Other than a good
> lightning strike as scene on You Tube if ya surf about enough.Great train
> stuff, too!
>
> My two Teslas worth.
>
> Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That would be the "Well programmed human" part of the system.
It's amazing the kind of subtle feedback a person can provide without even
realizing they are doing it.
> So what sort of "constant" function does Roland's constant accelerator
> pressure provide? Just confused.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 10:03 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile - cruise control
>
> Constant current on the battery side or the motor side?
>
> On the battery side you'd have trouble on hills as the vehicle slows WAY
> down. You'd end up going up the hill very slowly while the motor was
> drawing lots of current and overheating.
>
> If you maintained constant motor current, you'd slow down even more going
> up hill until you came to a stop and then fried your commutator.
>
> Constant voltage on the motor side is somewhat better as you'd maintain a
> somewhat even speed, but it might not be as efficient.
> Unless you are going to use a computer controlled system with a really
> good algorythm, your best method is to use a well programmed human to
> control the system.
>
>> So, instead of programming for a constant speed, you could program for
>> constant current, and let the speed vary as it would?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Roland Wiench
>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 2:30 PM
>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile - cruise control
>>
>> If you was on a dead level grade, cruise controls works, as it does in
>> my
>> other cars, but in hilly country while going up a grade, you can feel
>> more
>> power being added which is pushing the accelerator harder, and going
>> down
>> hill, it holds you back.
>>
>> I make more range, while holding the accelerator at a constant pressure
>> which may slow you up a bit, and let it get up to a high as a speed as
>> possible while coasting down a grade.
>>
>> At one time we did not have a speed limit, now it is 79 mph, (4 miles
>> over),
>>
>> where at times a vehicle may get up to over 85 mph going down hill,
>> which
>> I
>> therefore can roller coast up the next which slows the vehicle to about
>> 60
>> mph going up the next grade.
>>
>> I was be able to coast all the way from my work place all the way into
>> my
>> garage which was about 5 miles.
>>
>> I now have too many short runs of about 1/2 mile long with only one stop
>> at
>> the end of each run. It's like driving on a very long 3 to 5 mile long
>> connected parking lot.
>>
>> Roland
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 12:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile - cruise control
>>
>>
>>> It seems like cruise control would be very easy to build into an EV
>>> controller... its all electronic.
>>> Wonder why its not done... or is it?
>>>
>>> On May 13, 2007, at 6:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Roland> One way I found that can reduce the AH or wh usage is if
>>> > Roland> everything else is perfect, is the amount of pressure you
>>> > Roland> maintain on the accelerator. For example, to accelerate
>>> > my EV up
>>> > Roland> to a certain speed, I just press the accelerator just
>>> > to that
>>> > Roland> point which will maintain that speed, not push it to
>>> > the floor
>>> > Roland> and then when you get to the speed you want, then let
>>> > up on the
>>> > Roland> accelerator at that point.
>>> >
>>> > Seems like cruise control would be very helpful in an EV.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
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How about for street use, with a string of caps in parallel with GC
batteries? It might just be a way to get 1K amps for the first few seconds
without toasting the batteries? Like maybe a string of 8 or 12V GC batts
and a string of caps in parallel? The battery voltage should sag enough to
protect themselves and cause the caps to take most of the surge. I'm still
looking for a way to get a fairly lightweight pack with limited range
requirements, that will put out 1K amp when necessary without killing the
batteries. GC batteries and caps seem to have characteristics that could
work well together. The GC batteries have capacity and a relatively flat
discharge curve at moderate current, the caps can supply large momentary
current needs, but have a poor discharge curve.
Marty
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--- Begin Message ---
not just there, the new London congestion rules, possibly to be copied
in Manhattan, are driving a market for micro-EVs, plus I have seen
pictures of similar cars from France and Norway and Brazil, usually in
EV and diesel versions. I don't know about the far East, though there
are a lot of microcars in Japan that would be suitable. I think the
Indian EVs have been discussed here too.
If we could relax the DOT safety rules, we could have them here too,
right now.
Michaela Merz wrote:
Well, I happened to be in Florence (Italy) last summer.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gang, please let this thread die. It was off topic to begin with, and now
that you're talking about ipods and 78 rpm records, it's off the deep end.
If you want to discuss that stuff, please do it in private email, not on the
EVDL.
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
This stuff is fantastic! Thanks for taking the time to get it online.
Rob
On May 12, 2007, at 11:42 AM, Tom Gocze wrote:
Hi,
Well, it has taken a week, but we have a bunch of Contactor
Controller stuff scanned and posted on www.hotandcold.tv.
Go to the site and find the Contactor Controller page.
I have a bunch more antique stuff, but scanning old books into the
computer is not that much fun. I have not yet scanned anything from
an awesome book called
"Speed Control-The Electric Car" from 1920. When I saw that on ebay
years ago, I almost wet my pants. It is alas, a book on electric
railway
controls. Most of the technology is similar to the stuff I have
posted.
Hope this satiates some of the Contactor Controller lust that many
have asked about on EVDL. The Lucas book (How to Convert to an
Electric Car) is one of the best.
Sorry for the delay, my webmaster is my college aged daughter--you
might know how that can be!
Tom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds pretty cool. If you are thinking of tying into a PC/Mac as a
controller, I have been using one of these for a while in my home
theater with good luck:
http://www.irtrans.de/en/technicalinfo/index.php
I have been using the Ethernet <--> IR module, but there is also a
cheaper USB version and an RS232 version. In addition to
transmitting codes it can receive for the purpose of learning codes
or triggering other actions on the computer.
Rob
On May 12, 2007, at 12:34 PM, (¤Phil¤) wrote:
Seems like the right thing to do is put a little board on each
battery. The board would contain a small microcontroller with ADC,
a IR LED, a monolithic IR receiver (like those used in consumer
electronics to receive remote control signals), a high-current
MOSFET and a resistor (light bulb?). The board would only hook to
(+) and (-) of each battery in the array. No data cabling. 2
wires, that's it.
The units would all be identical, but contain a unique serial
number in the firmware. A central controller would then poll the
individual units via 40khz IR signals. The units would respond the
same way. The central controller can then order the load on and
off for equalization of the pack when charging.
The IR effectively galvanically isolates the whole mess and makes
it unlikely an accident could occur. The IR would readily bounce
all around battery enclosures and make a reliable 2-way
communication system with no wires and very low cost. The IR LED/
Receiver are commodity items and cost pennies.
The little boards would thus be cheap and easy to make, and very
safe with no possibility of shorts, etc.
Open-source the firmware and PCB design. Maybe a group-buy of the
little PCBs.
-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: 1-Wire Expertise
Lee Hart wrote:
>> Why have a computer on every battery? If all he want to do is
measure
>> each battery's voltage, all that's needed is a central "box" to
>> measure voltage (could be just a multimeter or analog meter),
and the
>> relays to select which battery it measures. If you don't like
>> mechanical relays, use solid state relays.
Victor Tikhonov replied:
I suppose because entire microcomputer (controller with its I/Os,
PICs for sure) is cheaper these days than one single mechanical
relay, esp.
good one.
Price doesn't matter if it's the wrong part for the job. A nail is
cheaper than a screw; but we don't put cars together with nails.
For this application, you need a way to measure an *isolated*
voltage. A 1-wire chip, or a micro won't do this. The key part is
whatever provides the isolation. I think a relay is the cheapest
part that can do this.
How about using a capacitor to store the voltage from any given
battery? Switch the capacitor to battery N. Disconnect it (no
load, so it holds the voltage). Switch it to your measurement
circuit (which draws negligible current so it won't load down the
capacitor voltage). Disconnect it, and switch it to battery N+1, etc.
Resistor R1 in series with the capacitor limits the peak charge/
discharge current, which will extend relay life. It also filters
noise on the battery so you won't get an instantaneous reading
based on noise. You could instead use one resistor per battery, in
each battery lead, as a fuse if you like.
Kodd K1
_______/ ________________/ ____
| | | __|__+
| Keven | | K2 ___ battery 1
| ___/ __| | ____/ ____| -
| | | | | __|__+
__________ | | R1 > | | K3 ___ battery 2
| +|___| | 100 > |__ | ___/ ____|
| central | | | > | | __|__+
| voltage | | | C1 _|_ | | K4 ___ battery 3
| monitor -|__ | __| 1uF ___ | |____/ ____| -
|__________| | | | | | __|__+
| | Kodd | | | K5 ___ battery 4
| |___/ __| |__ | ___/ ____| -
| | | __|__+
| Keven | | K6 ___ battery 5
|_______/ __|________|____/ ____| -
This circuit has exactly one SPST relay per battery, plus five for
the even/odd reversing circuit and the end of the series string of
batteries. An SPST reed relay only costs about $0.50, so that's
about 50 cents per battery for an isolated measurement.
Now you can use your micro to measure the voltage on the
capacitor, and switch all those relays. But you only need *one* of
them, not one per battery.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Amy Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Birth Doula
Childbirth Educator
602-277-1572
602-405-3744
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire" -
Yeats
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is the voltage feedback on Pin 2 of the RegBus connector a proportional
control? meaning does it cut back proportionally to what
voltage is seen on pin 2? Or is it an On/Off function?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 6:30 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Charging timer
>
>
> Evan Tuer wronte:
>
> >"Shorting pin 17 to ground will prevent the charger from putting out
> power.
>
> Evan, on a PFC-20 or PFC-30, you can easily turn off the charger output by
> putting around 4.5V on pin 2 of the external regbus connector. Something
> like this (Rich, correct me if I'm wrong here):
>
> Pin 1 (+5V)---+
> |
> \ SW1
> |
> >
> > R1 1K
> >
> |
> Pin 2---------+
> |
> >
> > R2 10K
> >
> |
> Pin 4 (Gnd)---+
>
> Close SW1, and pin 2 sees over 4.5V. This is the same as the regbus
> telling the charger to go into thermal cutback.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com - Microsoft® Exchange solutions from a leading provider -
> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you look again, that's already been answered.
These caps may be "large" by some standards, but don't have enough
capacitance or current capabilities to do anything like a kiloamp
discharge. Even for a single acceleration, the voltage drop due to
internal resistance is too high, the heat generation on the foil plates
will likely cause localized overheating, and the voltage will drop very
quickly anyways because the capacitance isn't high enough.
Many more of these caps in parallel will resolve it in theory, but then
it'd be significantly larger than the whole battery pack. Even if you
had the money, the vehicle probably does not have the space.
Maxwell Ultracaps have phenomenally greater capacitance and can sustain
very large discharges- hundreds of amps. Very different beast. Those
would do it.
Danny
Marty Hewes wrote:
How about for street use, with a string of caps in parallel with GC
batteries? It might just be a way to get 1K amps for the first few
seconds without toasting the batteries? Like maybe a string of 8 or
12V GC batts and a string of caps in parallel? The battery voltage
should sag enough to protect themselves and cause the caps to take
most of the surge. I'm still looking for a way to get a fairly
lightweight pack with limited range requirements, that will put out 1K
amp when necessary without killing the batteries. GC batteries and
caps seem to have characteristics that could work well together. The
GC batteries have capacity and a relatively flat discharge curve at
moderate current, the caps can supply large momentary current needs,
but have a poor discharge curve.
Marty
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had seen audio capacitors on sale in the automotive junk
mail fliers. The same thought of 'what-if' they could be
used for EV purposes had also crossed my mind.
My thanks to all that posted on this topic. I got some needed
answers and it also gave me hope.
If the super deep bass automotive audio amplifer market is
driving costs lower for higher farad capacitors, in the
future those capacitors could be of the right type for our
EV purposes.
For me, one point of my EVgrin is the quieter ride of my
EV conversion. Perhaps I will grumble less if I remind
myself that all license-plate-rattling blasting BOOM-BOOM
noise pollution from the other driver may help future EVrs.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play
Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That stuff is great!
Love those old ev books.
They thought of it all already.
Such a head start.
Thanks.
On Mon, 14 May 2007 10:59 pm, Rob&Amy Smith wrote:
This stuff is fantastic! Thanks for taking the time to get it online.
Rob
On May 12, 2007, at 11:42 AM, Tom Gocze wrote:
Hi,
Well, it has taken a week, but we have a bunch of Contactor
Controller stuff scanned and posted on www.hotandcold.tv.
Go to the site and find the Contactor Controller page.
I have a bunch more antique stuff, but scanning old books into the
computer is not that much fun. I have not yet scanned anything from
an awesome book called
"Speed Control-The Electric Car" from 1920. When I saw that on ebay
years ago, I almost wet my pants. It is alas, a book on electric
railway
controls. Most of the technology is similar to the stuff I have
posted.
Hope this satiates some of the Contactor Controller lust that many
have asked about on EVDL. The Lucas book (How to Convert to an
Electric Car) is one of the best.
Sorry for the delay, my webmaster is my college aged daughter--you
might know how that can be!
Tom
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ACRX: ~190 Wh/mile with regen on, ~230 Wh/mile with regen off
(stop-n-go traffic, 40 PSI tires, 50 mph average speed).
This is out of the battery. Never measured wall to wheels, may be
I should at some point...
Victor
Ian Hooper wrote:
Hi all,
I was just curious if many people on the list have measured their EV's
efficiency i.e average watt-hours per mile?
I've heard figures around 300wh/mile thrown around, but that seems like
a fair bit of energy to me.. Could that be based on people using the C20
capacity of lead acid to calculate the pack's energy?
-Ian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You may get a kick reading about my experience with this.
I used 2.7 kF (Yes, 2,700 FARADS) 2.7V caps, 160 in series
in ACRX - still have this pack sitting in my garage.
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/ultracaps.htm
Did tire smoke on these caps alone at one point...
Pretty powerful, but you need to know how to use them.
Victor
Marty Hewes wrote:
Probably a naieve question, but when considering caps vs batteries, you
are considering that voltage output of a cap drops linearly with
discharge, unlike batteries? How much of that charge can you use before
the voltage is too low to do you any good?
I like the idea of using caps for a quick pulse of current, but that
discharge curve is ugly.
Marty
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you seen my new ev controller?
I am now looking for a drive shaft that can take the torque.
I think it might be bigger than the passenger compartment :-)
" The circuit — a switch tightly coupled to two capacitors — is
about the size of a shoebox and is termed a “brick.” When bricks are
tightly packed in groups of 20 and electrically connected in parallel in
a circular container resembling a large cherry lifesaver, the aggregate,
or “cavity” as the physicists would have it, can transmit a current
of 0.5 megamperes at 100 kilovolts."
http://www.sandia.gov/news/resources/releases/2007/rapid-fire-pulse.html
See a video simulation of a firing procedure able to harvest energy
from a high-yield Z fusion reaction occuring every 10 seconds (Save or
drag the simulation onto your desktop to open it.)
Also included at this site is an artist's image of a proposed power
plant using 10 stalks of 10 LCD devices each to focus power on a
target.
NEWS RELEASES
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 24, 2007
Rapid-fire pulse brings Sandia Z method closer to goal of high-yield
fusion reactor
Revolutionary circuit fires thousands of times without flaw
From Siberia, not Area 51: Sandia researcher Bill Fowler tests circuits
on an LTD device able to produce large electrical impulses rapidly and
repeatedly. (Photo by Randy Montoya)
Download 300dpi JPEG image, “fowler.jpg,” 2.2MB (Media are welcome
to download/publish this image with related news stories.)
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — An electrical circuit that should carry enough
power to produce the long-sought goal of controlled high-yield nuclear
fusion and, equally important, do it every 10 seconds, has undergone
extensive preliminary experiments and computer simulations at Sandia
National Laboratories’ Z machine facility.
Z, when it fires, is already the largest producer of X-rays on Earth
and has been used to produce fusion neutrons. But rapid bursts are
necessary for future generating plants to produce electrical power from
sea water. This had not been thought achievable till now.
Sandia is a National Nuclear Security Administration laboratory.
How does it work?
An automobile engine that fired one cylinder and then waited hours
before firing again wouldn’t take a car very far.
Similarly, a machine to provide humanity unlimited electrical energy
from cheap, abundant seawater can’t fire once and quit for the day. It
must deliver energy to fuse pellets of hydrogen every 10 seconds and
keep that pace up for millions of shots between maintenance — a kind
of an internal combustion engine for nuclear fusion. That’s so, at
least, for the fusion method at Sandia National Laboratories’ Z
machine and elsewhere known as inertial confinement.
Sandians Dillon McDaniel (second from left) and Steve Glover (right)
with Alexandar Kim (HCEI, Tomsk, Russia) examine a 500- kilo-amp LTD for
final check-out before shipment from Siberia to Sandia (person on far
left is Sandia-hired interpreter; Roman Kahn). The LTD has been in
testing at Sandia for the last 2.5 years.
Download 300dpi JPEG image, “LTD-check-out.jpg,” 2.1MB (Media are
welcome to download/publish this image with related news stories.)
But, unable to produce fusion except episodically, the method has been
overshadowed by the technique called magnetic confinement — a method
that uses a magnetic field to enclose a continuous fusion reaction from
which to draw power.
The electrical circuit emerging from the technological hills may change
the balance between these systems. Tagged as “revolutionary” by
ordinarily conservative researchers, it may close the gap between the
two methods.
The circuit is easily able to fire every 10.2 seconds in brief,
powerful bursts.
“This is the most significant advance in primary power generation in
many decades,” says Keith Matzen, director of Sandia’s Pulsed Power
Center.
The new system, called a linear transformer driver (LTD), was created
by researchers at the Institute of High Current Electronics in Tomsk,
Russia, in collaboration with colleagues at Sandia.
Says Rick Stulen, Sandia Vice President for Science, Technology and
Research Foundations, “This new technology not only represents a
remarkable technical advance but also demonstrates the strong engagement
of Sandia's scientists and engineers in the international community.”
The large-cherry-lifesaver path to nuclear fusion
The circuit — a switch tightly coupled to two capacitors — is about
the size of a shoebox and is termed a “brick.” When bricks are
tightly packed in groups of 20 and electrically connected in parallel in
a circular container resembling a large cherry lifesaver, the aggregate,
or “cavity” as the physicists would have it, can transmit a current
of 0.5 megamperes at 100 kilovolts.
A test cavity in Sandia’s Technical Area 4 has fired without flaw
more than 11,000 times.
Boris Kovalchuk (HCEI, in gray suit) demonstrates design of a new LTD
system to Sandian Dillion McDaniel as Alexandar Kim looks on. (Far
right, unknown person.)
Download 300dpi JPEG image, “LTD-system.jpg,” 1.6MB (Media are
welcome to download/publish this image with related news stories.)
Because the cavities are modular, they can be stacked like donuts on a
metal prong called a stalk. Arranged in a suitable configuration, they
could generate 60 megamperes and six megavolts of electrical power,
enough (theoretically) to generate high-yield nuclear fusion within the
parameters necessary to run an electrical power plant.
“This is a revolutionary advance,” says Craig Olson, Sandia senior
scientist and manager of the pulsed power inertial fusion energy
program.
The next-generation cavity model, now being tested in Tomsk, transmits
1.0 megamperes at the same voltage and with the same rapidity. Five such
units have been built; four have been purchased by Sandia, and one by
the University of Michigan. The units cost $160,000 each. They too,
according to Sandia scientist and project leader Mike Mazarakis, who
supervised the tests at the Siberian site, are performing without flaw.
“This is an amazing achievement,” says Sandia Vice President Gerry
Yonas, a former leader at Z and of Sandia’s Advanced Concepts Group.
Advantages of the new technology
Happily for Sandia accountants but sadly to those who love the widely
distributed arcs-and-sparks photo of Z firing by Sandia photographer
Randy Montoya, the new switch eliminates the need for the hundreds of
thousands of gallons of insulating water and oil carried by the present
Z structure. It was over the surface of that water that the electrical
arcing of Z became a phenomenon as much appreciated by graphic artists
as it was loathed by engineers (who saw it as wasted energy). Also gone
will be much of Z’s intricate switching. All were needed to shorten to
nanoseconds the machine’s original microsecond pulse.
The linear transformer driver produces its 100-nanosecond pulse from
the get-go. It works so well because its design lowers inductances that
ordinarily slow electrical transmission.
Dillon McDaniel examines insulators that go between capacitor layers
for 250, 500, and 1000 kilo-amp LTDs.
Download 300dpi JPEG image, “insulators.jpg,” 1.4MB (Media are
welcome to download/publish this image with related news stories.)
It does this in part by eliminating the huge plates and extensive
wiring in the current Z machine, all of which generate magnetic fields.
In the new system, each brick has almost no wiring. Two capacitors about
the size of small thermos bottles are tightly linked to a switch the
size of a lunchbox. There is little opportunity to generate magnetic
fields that slow the passage of current.
Further, linking the bricks in parallel in a cavity not only adds
currents, but decreases inductances to levels significantly less than
previously possible.
The subsets are then linked in series to add voltages.
This allows a very powerful machine to fire very rapidly, with only a
thin layer of oil bathing the rings and rows of switches.
The LTD technology is 50 percent more efficient than current Z machine
firings, in terms of the ratio of useful energy out to energy in. Z is
currently 15 percent efficient to its load (already a very high
efficiency among possible fusion machines).
There is, however, a small matter of cost.
Funding for Z historically has been for defense purposes: Its
experiments are used to generate data for simulations on supercomputers
that help maintain the strength, effectiveness, and safety of the US
nuclear deterrent. Even without its rapid repetition capability, a
powerful LTD machine would better simulate conditions created by nuclear
weapons, so that data from the laboratory-created explosion of Z firing
could be used with greater certainty in computer simulations regarding
nuclear weapons. The US has refrained from actual testing of nuclear
weapons for 15 years.
But fired repeatedly, the machine could well be the fusion machine that
could form the basis of an electrical generating plant only two decades
away. Progress in this arena might eventually require funding from
DOE’s energy arm.
To confirm the new Z concept would take $35 million over five to seven
years to build a test bed with 100 cavities. If successful, future
generations of Z-like facilities would be constructed with LTDs.
Funding thus far has come from two US Congressional Initiatives through
DOE-NNSA Defense Programs, Sandia’s internal Laboratory Directed
Research and Development monies, and Sandia’s Inertial Confinement
Fusion program.
“It’s like building a tinker toy,” says Matzen. “We think we
need 60 megamperes to make large fusion yields. But though our
simulations show it can be done, we won’t know for certain until we
actually build it.”
The device was designed by Tomsk pulsed-power head Alexandar Kim with
the switch developed by Boris Kovalchuk; its speed-up from a microsecond
to 100 nanosecond firing was urged by Sandia manager Dillon McDaniel,
and encouraged by Sandia managers Rick Spielman and Ken Struve; the work
was led at Sandia and Tomsk by Sandia researcher Mike Mazarakis; testing
at Sandia was by Bill Fowler and Robin Sharpe; the Z-IFE fusion energy
program at Sandia was initiated and is managed by Craig Olson.
Recent results on LTD development will be presented at the IEEE
International Pulsed Power Conference and the IEEE Symposium on Fusion
Engineering to be held in Albuquerque in June 2007.
Sandia has filed a patent application on a high-power pulsed-power
accelerator invented by William Stygar that can use an LTD as the
primary power generator to replace the conventional Marx generator.
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Sandia is a multiprogram laboratory operated by Sandia Corporation, a
Lockheed Martin company, for the U.S. Department of Energy’s National
Nuclear Security Administration. Sandia has major R&D responsibilities
in national security, energy and environmental technologies, and
economic competitiveness.
Sandia news media contact: Neal Singer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] , (505)
845-7078
©2006 Sandia Corporation | Questions and Comments | Privacy and
Security
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Thanks David,
It's better than this - it is easy to make BRUSA chargers
to advance to the next section of charging alg (which may be
programmed as end of charge) when some temp is exceeded.
(we're talking about NLG5 series ones).
Moreover, it's trivial to make them "unplug" themselves - they have
programmable digital I/Os you can just connect a relay to and feed
AC through its contacts. Clever arrangement allows to initiate charge
with small bypass relay. That way in case of overtemp the charger
is totally out of the wall.
This all is on top of regular overtemp emergency shutoff and built in
timer every charger comes with as standard features. NLG5 have pretty
impressive list of safety related functions.
Victor
David Roden wrote:
On 12 May 2007 at 16:31, Chris Tromley wrote:
I know of no EV chargers that
inherently protect against a thermal runaway.
Brusa chargers monitor the temp sensors in the battery. If the battery
exceeds a user-specified temperature, the charger can take a user-specified
action. Typically, it will throttle the charge current to some lower value
until the battery temperature falls sufficiently.
I would think that most other chargers which have temperature compensation
would implement something similar. It would be trivial to add it to the
firmware.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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Cost won't matter. It already looks like it won't be possible to get a
useful advantage for the weight and volume even if they were free! This
cap tech simply doesn't have the potential.
Now one day some of this ultracap stuff- Maxwell or any equivalent
brand- starts going into them, yeah it may be something to score.
That's different technology. Although typically that car stereo stuff
tends to take something that costs $10, gold plate it, stick on a logo,
and sell it for $299 so it may be unlikely that this would be cheaper
than getting the raw stuff straight from the mfg.
Danny
bruce parmenter wrote:
If the super deep bass automotive audio amplifer market is
driving costs lower for higher farad capacitors, in the
future those capacitors could be of the right type for our
EV purposes.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Hi,
Thanks for that, Bill.
Dave, I think the answer is yes, you could use the same thing to start
the timer if you set the DIP switches correctly:
"SW3-3 will start the timer when the Regbus tells the charger to back
off on current."
On 5/15/07, Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is there some similar way to signal the charger to start the timer sequence?
--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Evan Tuer wronte:
>
> >"Shorting pin 17 to ground will prevent the charger from putting out
> power.
>
> Evan, on a PFC-20 or PFC-30, you can easily turn off the charger output by
> putting around 4.5V on pin 2 of the external regbus connector. Something
> like this (Rich, correct me if I'm wrong here):
>
> Pin 1 (+5V)---+
> |
> \ SW1
> |
> >
> > R1 1K
> >
> |
> Pin 2---------+
> |
> >
> > R2 10K
> >
> |
> Pin 4 (Gnd)---+
>
> Close SW1, and pin 2 sees over 4.5V. This is the same as the regbus
> telling the charger to go into thermal cutback.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com - Microsoft(r) Exchange solutions from a leading provider -
> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm I notice their recommended discharge rate (on which they base their cycle
life) is a rather impressive 0.2c....wow.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tehben Dean
Sent: 15 May 2007 00:56
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: LTC - Lithium Technology Corp. Lithium batteries
I don't know how this compares to other lithium batteries but If you
got 90 of their 120 Ah HE-852050 3.6v cells you would have a 324v
120ah 500lb battery pack!!
http://www.lithiumtech.com/StandardCells.html
Tehben
5/14/2007
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Next Generation Battery Technology Makes Hybrid and Electric Vehicles
a Reality
Lithium Technology Corporation offers the Largest Lithium Iron
Phosphate Cells in World
PLYMOUTH MEETING, PA, May 14, 2007 � The battery power solution for
advanced automotives has arrived. Lithium Technology Corporation
("LTC") (OTC: LTHU) announced today its new product line of lithium
iron phosphate (LiFePO4) cells, the largest cells of their kind in
the world. This is the answer the automotive industry has been
searching for.
"The technology we can offer the automotive industry today is
unmatched by any other battery power solution on the market,"
commented Dr. Klaus Brandt, executive vice president of LTC and
managing director of LTC subsidiary GAIA Akkumulatorenwerke (GAIA).
"Others have been estimating up to a year to deliver the technology
we are proud to make available today. We have proven the superiority
of our technology in the past, and with the iron phosphate product we
have raised the bar even further."
LTC, a global provider of large lithium-ion rechargeable power
solutions has focused solely on the development and production of
large format lithium-ion batteries for more than twenty years. Unlike
others, our advanced cells use LiFePO4 licensed technology, developed
by Prof. John Goodenough with the University of Texas and supplied by
Phostech; this chemistry coupled with the company's innovative end-to-
end manufacturing processes and proprietary design, packaging and
assembly techniques, allow LTC to provide high performance cells
unmatched by any other product.
"Batteries made of LTC's cells can provide 3000 charging cycles,
which would be able to do 150,000 miles to 80% capacity for a 100 km
or 60 mile all electric range plug in hybrid, which no other
technology can claim," said Dr. Andrew Frank, Professor, Mechanical
and Aeronautical Engineering at the University of California, Davis .
"The new cells from LTC provide improved safety with the iron
phosphate chemistry while delivering the impeccable performance they
are known for, which is what the auto makers have been in search of;
this is a Company that is seriously committed to making hybrid, plug-
in hybrid and electric vehicles an affordable reality for the consumer."
LTC�s large format technology allows for the development of safer
battery systems with a significantly lower number of cells. The
weight of the battery is decreased while performance and safety
monitoring capabilities are increased. The battery management system
(BMS) is more precise monitoring fewer cells, keeping them in balance
for best performance and preventing damage to the battery due to over
voltage, under voltage, over temperature and short circuit.
The Company�s new product line offers cells ranging from 6 Ah to 35
Ah. Further statistics will be discussed at an expo of LTC�s breadth
of power solution on May 23rd in New York City.
http://www.lithiumtech.com/pr51407.htm
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