EV Digest 6775
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: RE, 48 volt motor
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Shave My Adapter?
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EBEAA Meeting - this Saturday, May 19, 2007 10-12 in Alameda
by Ed Thorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Shave My Adapter?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Current Limit on ye-ol Curtis PMC 25
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Charging timer
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: AGNS has new motors
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: John Wayland Interview Podcast on Vinnie's Garage
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Electric fork lift hydraulic pumps?
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Rapid-fire pulse brings Sandia Z method closer to goal of high-yield
fusion reactor
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Electric fork lift hydraulic pumps?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Electric fork lift hydraulic pumps?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Electric Power Steering
by "Martin Winlow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) EV discussion on Ask Technocrat
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Electric Power Steering
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Electric Power Steering
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Shave My Adapter?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Howdy,
My E-Porsche 914 (1974') clutch doesn't release and I was wondering if the
VW bug adapter I bought is too thick and by how much OR if the bug clutch
disc & pressure plate are the wrong dimensions (thickness) for the Porsche.
Does anyone, Mike Brown etc know the dimensional differences between the bug
& Porsche clutch from that era? ( It appears the throwout bearing isn't
traveling all the way before the arm bottoms out on the exit casing). It's
like clutchless shifting right now (crunchy between gears).
Also I was curious about what brake pads have the best cooefficient of
friction. There's a lot of BS in the brake pad world. I was told that
organic Mintex pads were better than metalic but don't see any friction
rating numbers just various "heavy duty", "titanium" and other meaningless
claims. Iv'e done this brake pad change thing before and it usually is just
an exercise in futility. I did find from my shop manual that my poor
braking is probably due to the rusty discs and they should be turned which
I'm doing today. I have the 17mm master cylinder instead of the 19mm for
less braking effort but I could probably use the bigger rear pistons that
were used on the heavier 6-cyl version. I removed the rear pressure
regulator like Otmar did which usually helps.
Have a renewabler energy day,
Stop by the June 3-7 WindExpo in LA,
Mark E. Hanson
Roanoke, VA
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*********START OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***********
Topic: Upgrading a conversion
Date: Saturday, May 18, 2007
Time: 10 am to 12 noon.
Site: Alameda First Baptist Church
1515 Santa Clara Ave, Alameda
Visitors welcome, open to the public.
Over the years, many people get their first
experiences with existing EVs, whether limited
produciton vehicles or conversions done by themselves
or others. As technology improves, so do the various
componients used in the EV. The major improvement has
been the controllers used to modulate power between
the battery pack and the motor, to improve
performance, control, efficiency and dependability.
This month we have a hands-on project where we will be
upgrading a 1974 Aurenthetic mini motorcycle from its
original contactor controller to a Curtis PMI
controller. This requires some rewiring, changing of
componients, adding a DC converter, upgrading
instrumentation and other minor details. Since this is
a small vehicle with only a 24v pack, it should be a
realtively easy and straight-forward upgrade process.
EVs will be on-hand and informal Q&A can take place in
the parking lot after the meeting.
Upcoming events:
June 23 meeting - battery watering system and guest
appearance of a tZero.
July 4 - Alameda Independence Day parade.
See you there.
http://www.ebeaa.org
*********END OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***********
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the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware
protection.
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Hello Mark,
The same thing happen to me, that adapter plate was too thick and the
flywheel was thinner than normal. Also the transmission pilot shaft did not
go all the way through the motor coupler and inserted into the motor shaft,
and the Warp 9 motor was 5/8 inch longer than my GE-11 motor, which push
back the motor from the normal position.
The reason why the transmission input shaft does not go all the way through
the motor coupler, is because the small diameter motor couplers are use to
fit the later flywheels and the inside diameter of the taper lock is too
small for the transmission shaft to go through.
This whole assembly is install in a blow proof reinforce bell housing that
is also 1/4 longer than normal.
Therefore the clutch pushrod was too short, so I had to make a new one out
of a grade 8 bolt which I screw on a rod end. The clutch still would barely
release if I push the clutch peddle all the way to the floor.
This is cause by the thinner flywheel, making the pressure plate too far
from the surface of the throw out bearing. The throw out bearing that came
with the kit, was a short one, which allow too much travel to the face of
the pressure plate, so I exchange it for a long throw out bearing, which
improve it some.
I found that the two piece adapter plate, where one section is 3/4 thick and
the other section is 2 inches which made it 2.75 inches thick, could have
been 2.00 thick overall.
I am going back to the large flange motor adapter that is large enough for
the transmission shaft to go into the motor shaft and has a alignment pin
for centering the coupler.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:27 AM
Subject: Shave My Adapter?
> Howdy,
>
> My E-Porsche 914 (1974') clutch doesn't release and I was wondering if the
> VW bug adapter I bought is too thick and by how much OR if the bug clutch
> disc & pressure plate are the wrong dimensions (thickness) for the
> Porsche.
> Does anyone, Mike Brown etc know the dimensional differences between the
> bug
> & Porsche clutch from that era? ( It appears the throwout bearing isn't
> traveling all the way before the arm bottoms out on the exit casing).
> It's
> like clutchless shifting right now (crunchy between gears).
>
> Also I was curious about what brake pads have the best cooefficient of
> friction. There's a lot of BS in the brake pad world. I was told that
> organic Mintex pads were better than metalic but don't see any friction
> rating numbers just various "heavy duty", "titanium" and other meaningless
> claims. Iv'e done this brake pad change thing before and it usually is
> just
> an exercise in futility. I did find from my shop manual that my poor
> braking is probably due to the rusty discs and they should be turned which
> I'm doing today. I have the 17mm master cylinder instead of the 19mm for
> less braking effort but I could probably use the bigger rear pistons that
> were used on the heavier 6-cyl version. I removed the rear pressure
> regulator like Otmar did which usually helps.
>
> Have a renewabler energy day,
> Stop by the June 3-7 WindExpo in LA,
> Mark E. Hanson
> Roanoke, VA
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Catch suspicious messages before you open them-with Windows Live Hotmail.
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>
>
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You do not need an extra tap for an Alltrax AXE controller. The reference
in the manual to this is simply a way to program the controller on the
bench. It shows you how to hook up enough power to turn on the
microprocessor so you can talk to it with your PC.
damon
On Altraxing a Electrac, I'm not sure IF the Alltrax controller NEEDS
an
18volt feed?When ya strip out ALL the trax wiring and start anew, do ya
need
a tapoff for the CONTROLLER, as well as the lift motor?I saw the testing
diagram, in the instructions about programing it with 2 9 volt batteri in
series. Makes ya wonder?
Seeya
Bob
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The cutback is proportional to the voltage.
Bill Dennis
Mike Willmon wrote:
Is the voltage feedback on Pin 2 of the RegBus connector a proportional
control? meaning does it cut back proportionally to what
voltage is seen on pin 2? Or is it an On/Off function?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 6:30 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Charging timer
Evan Tuer wronte:
"Shorting pin 17 to ground will prevent the charger from putting out
power.
Evan, on a PFC-20 or PFC-30, you can easily turn off the charger output by
putting around 4.5V on pin 2 of the external regbus connector. Something
like this (Rich, correct me if I'm wrong here):
Pin 1 (+5V)---+
|
\ SW1
|
>
> R1 1K
>
|
Pin 2---------+
|
>
> R2 10K
>
|
Pin 4 (Gnd)---+
Close SW1, and pin 2 sees over 4.5V. This is the same as the regbus
telling the charger to go into thermal cutback.
Bill Dennis
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
I think Rod Hower hit the nail on the head with the reversed magnets.
Demagnetization/reversal is the limitation for PM motors.
You go over the max current and the magnets roll over and die. Then
there is no back-EMF to hold off the current in the armature. When
you are paralleling motors on one controller output, this is a
serious issue. The motor with the weakest magnets hogs the current,
wounding the magnets even more, causing it to hog more current.....
You can get more out of series-wound motors because there
are no magnets to reverse. You can hump in outrageous amounts of
current and the torque just keeps going up.
Again, your times are impressive. As you know, the only way
to post records is to push the system 100%. The engineering
calculations get you a ball park value, but you must go out and find
exactly where that 100% actually is in each component. To really know
where 100% is, you sometimes must go to 101%. :-)
I can feel your breath on my neck. Bump up the voltage and
come and get me. :-)
Bill Dube'
At 08:21 PM 5/14/2007, you wrote:
Rod,
Both motors were toast last Wednesday night. Very, very, burnt toast.
We'll turn down the knob on the toaster this week and see if we can
brown them just right.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 14 May 2007 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: AGNS has new motors
That link did not come up for me, but I found these
from the part number you listed,
http://www.perm-motor.de/pm_pdf/pmg_132_d.pdf
http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/product_p/ki-pmg132-hp.htm
http://www.enigmaindustries.com/PMG_132/PMG_132.htm
The last link provides the most info for me.
It is similar to an Etek motor with higher torque
constant.
When I read your post last week about fireballing I
assumed that you de-magnetized the motor (when the
magnets are pushed to the limit the magnet has lower
or minimal strength and the resulting motor winding
looks like a short circuit). Hopefully this didn't
take place with your motor, maybe you could let us
know if the original is still alive? I'm guessing
this has high power Neodymium magnets that are
difficult to demag except for guys like you and
Wayland.
Good luck on the Wednesday run!!!
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Rod,
The motors we are using came from Germany. Part #
PMG132.
www.perm-motors.de. They are very well built and
rather beautiful
inside.
They are lower in torque and don't have the same
speed and shaft
adjustability as the Lemco's but I am very impressed
with them.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 14 May 2007 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: AGNS has new motors
Hello Shawn,
I may have missed the post, do you have any more
details on the 'Perm motors' you're using on this
bike?
Thanks,
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The Lawless AGNS bike is almost back together and
> ready for a shot at
> the 144 volt NEDRA motorcycle record on Wednesday
> night.
> Looks like it's back to typical Cleveland weather
,
> (mid 50's and a
> chance of rain forecast). New Perm motors are in
> place. I tuned them
> on the test bench this morning slightly different
> than before. I'll
> try not to get so greedy with the motor voltage
this
> time. We're
> making some charging changes as well. Hopefully
all
> of this leads to
> the "as yet to be obtained" 100 mph run and a bit
> closer to the 12's. I
> was looking at the NEDRA motorcycle records today
> and it just struck me
> how impressive one of them is. In 2004 Duane
Gergich
> ran a 12.49 at
> 100.7 mph. on 156 volts! That is not only darn
quick
> for any bike but
> is second overall to the Killacycle at less than
> half the voltage! I
> think we have our work cut out for us on that one.
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
________________________________________________________________________
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I finally got a few moments of quiet time and listened to this interview
again in it's entirety. This is a fantastic interview that really showcases
the performance potential of EVs. For anyone on this list who appreciates
John's posts this is a good way to see how he sounds. This will give you an
idea of why he is able to procure sponsorships as well. His enthusiasm is
infectious. The interview also gave some jabs at GM so he did not hold any
punches. He even took a swipe at the Tesla Roadster for being slow. You can
scroll over about a third of the way to find where his interview begins. I
would highly recommend hearing it and not because he mentioned me.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: John Wayland Interview Podcast on Vinnie's Garage
Knowing that many folks on this list do not regularly monitor the EVDL, I
thought this should be posted here.
Subject is electric drag racing and interview is about 30 minutes long.
Interview begins at about the 10 minute mark into the segment.
36MB MP3 here-
http://www.vinnysgarage.com/VG19.mp3
Enjoy!
~~~~~~
Roy LeMeur
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I see a lot of guys are using fork lift motors for propulsion, what do
electric fork lifts use for hydraulic pumps for steering and lifting? I
know my ICE forklift uses an ICE driven power steering pump. Are there some
surplus electric steering pumps going to waste?
Marty
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fresh out of college I got job at the USC pulsed power department
where I among other things built the fast rise marx generator seen on
this page: http://www.usc.edu/dept/ee/Gundersen/pulsedpower.htm
It was only capable of 100kV and 30kA pulses but it appears the pulse
generator mentioned in the article is operating in a similar manner.
It's comprised of a number of high voltage capacitors coupled to some
form of a gas discharge switch ( the large cylinders), I used
pseudosparks. The caps are charged up in parrallell and discharged in
series when the switches fire.
The result on a good day was just a loud tick and a beutiful waveform
on the scope. Most of the time though the high voltage would find some
location where it would arc over with a loud bang, it's hard to
contain 100kV.
On 5/15/07, GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Have you seen my new ev controller?
I am now looking for a drive shaft that can take the torque.
I think it might be bigger than the passenger compartment :-)
" The circuit — a switch tightly coupled to two capacitors — is
about the size of a shoebox and is termed a "brick." When bricks are
tightly packed in groups of 20 and electrically connected in parallel in
a circular container resembling a large cherry lifesaver, the aggregate,
or "cavity" as the physicists would have it, can transmit a current
of 0.5 megamperes at 100 kilovolts."
http://www.sandia.gov/news/resources/releases/2007/rapid-fire-pulse.html
See a video simulation of a firing procedure able to harvest energy
from a high-yield Z fusion reaction occuring every 10 seconds (Save or
drag the simulation onto your desktop to open it.)
Also included at this site is an artist's image of a proposed power
plant using 10 stalks of 10 LCD devices each to focus power on a
target.
NEWS RELEASES
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 24, 2007
Rapid-fire pulse brings Sandia Z method closer to goal of high-yield
fusion reactor
Revolutionary circuit fires thousands of times without flaw
From Siberia, not Area 51: Sandia researcher Bill Fowler tests circuits
on an LTD device able to produce large electrical impulses rapidly and
repeatedly. (Photo by Randy Montoya)
Download 300dpi JPEG image, "fowler.jpg," 2.2MB (Media are welcome
to download/publish this image with related news stories.)
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — An electrical circuit that should carry enough
power to produce the long-sought goal of controlled high-yield nuclear
fusion and, equally important, do it every 10 seconds, has undergone
extensive preliminary experiments and computer simulations at Sandia
National Laboratories' Z machine facility.
Z, when it fires, is already the largest producer of X-rays on Earth
and has been used to produce fusion neutrons. But rapid bursts are
necessary for future generating plants to produce electrical power from
sea water. This had not been thought achievable till now.
Sandia is a National Nuclear Security Administration laboratory.
How does it work?
An automobile engine that fired one cylinder and then waited hours
before firing again wouldn't take a car very far.
Similarly, a machine to provide humanity unlimited electrical energy
from cheap, abundant seawater can't fire once and quit for the day. It
must deliver energy to fuse pellets of hydrogen every 10 seconds and
keep that pace up for millions of shots between maintenance — a kind
of an internal combustion engine for nuclear fusion. That's so, at
least, for the fusion method at Sandia National Laboratories' Z
machine and elsewhere known as inertial confinement.
Sandians Dillon McDaniel (second from left) and Steve Glover (right)
with Alexandar Kim (HCEI, Tomsk, Russia) examine a 500- kilo-amp LTD for
final check-out before shipment from Siberia to Sandia (person on far
left is Sandia-hired interpreter; Roman Kahn). The LTD has been in
testing at Sandia for the last 2.5 years.
Download 300dpi JPEG image, "LTD-check-out.jpg," 2.1MB (Media are
welcome to download/publish this image with related news stories.)
But, unable to produce fusion except episodically, the method has been
overshadowed by the technique called magnetic confinement — a method
that uses a magnetic field to enclose a continuous fusion reaction from
which to draw power.
The electrical circuit emerging from the technological hills may change
the balance between these systems. Tagged as "revolutionary" by
ordinarily conservative researchers, it may close the gap between the
two methods.
The circuit is easily able to fire every 10.2 seconds in brief,
powerful bursts.
"This is the most significant advance in primary power generation in
many decades," says Keith Matzen, director of Sandia's Pulsed Power
Center.
The new system, called a linear transformer driver (LTD), was created
by researchers at the Institute of High Current Electronics in Tomsk,
Russia, in collaboration with colleagues at Sandia.
Says Rick Stulen, Sandia Vice President for Science, Technology and
Research Foundations, "This new technology not only represents a
remarkable technical advance but also demonstrates the strong engagement
of Sandia's scientists and engineers in the international community."
The large-cherry-lifesaver path to nuclear fusion
The circuit — a switch tightly coupled to two capacitors — is about
the size of a shoebox and is termed a "brick." When bricks are
tightly packed in groups of 20 and electrically connected in parallel in
a circular container resembling a large cherry lifesaver, the aggregate,
or "cavity" as the physicists would have it, can transmit a current
of 0.5 megamperes at 100 kilovolts.
A test cavity in Sandia's Technical Area 4 has fired without flaw
more than 11,000 times.
Boris Kovalchuk (HCEI, in gray suit) demonstrates design of a new LTD
system to Sandian Dillion McDaniel as Alexandar Kim looks on. (Far
right, unknown person.)
Download 300dpi JPEG image, "LTD-system.jpg," 1.6MB (Media are
welcome to download/publish this image with related news stories.)
Because the cavities are modular, they can be stacked like donuts on a
metal prong called a stalk. Arranged in a suitable configuration, they
could generate 60 megamperes and six megavolts of electrical power,
enough (theoretically) to generate high-yield nuclear fusion within the
parameters necessary to run an electrical power plant.
"This is a revolutionary advance," says Craig Olson, Sandia senior
scientist and manager of the pulsed power inertial fusion energy
program.
The next-generation cavity model, now being tested in Tomsk, transmits
1.0 megamperes at the same voltage and with the same rapidity. Five such
units have been built; four have been purchased by Sandia, and one by
the University of Michigan. The units cost $160,000 each. They too,
according to Sandia scientist and project leader Mike Mazarakis, who
supervised the tests at the Siberian site, are performing without flaw.
"This is an amazing achievement," says Sandia Vice President Gerry
Yonas, a former leader at Z and of Sandia's Advanced Concepts Group.
Advantages of the new technology
Happily for Sandia accountants but sadly to those who love the widely
distributed arcs-and-sparks photo of Z firing by Sandia photographer
Randy Montoya, the new switch eliminates the need for the hundreds of
thousands of gallons of insulating water and oil carried by the present
Z structure. It was over the surface of that water that the electrical
arcing of Z became a phenomenon as much appreciated by graphic artists
as it was loathed by engineers (who saw it as wasted energy). Also gone
will be much of Z's intricate switching. All were needed to shorten to
nanoseconds the machine's original microsecond pulse.
The linear transformer driver produces its 100-nanosecond pulse from
the get-go. It works so well because its design lowers inductances that
ordinarily slow electrical transmission.
Dillon McDaniel examines insulators that go between capacitor layers
for 250, 500, and 1000 kilo-amp LTDs.
Download 300dpi JPEG image, "insulators.jpg," 1.4MB (Media are
welcome to download/publish this image with related news stories.)
It does this in part by eliminating the huge plates and extensive
wiring in the current Z machine, all of which generate magnetic fields.
In the new system, each brick has almost no wiring. Two capacitors about
the size of small thermos bottles are tightly linked to a switch the
size of a lunchbox. There is little opportunity to generate magnetic
fields that slow the passage of current.
Further, linking the bricks in parallel in a cavity not only adds
currents, but decreases inductances to levels significantly less than
previously possible.
The subsets are then linked in series to add voltages.
This allows a very powerful machine to fire very rapidly, with only a
thin layer of oil bathing the rings and rows of switches.
The LTD technology is 50 percent more efficient than current Z machine
firings, in terms of the ratio of useful energy out to energy in. Z is
currently 15 percent efficient to its load (already a very high
efficiency among possible fusion machines).
There is, however, a small matter of cost.
Funding for Z historically has been for defense purposes: Its
experiments are used to generate data for simulations on supercomputers
that help maintain the strength, effectiveness, and safety of the US
nuclear deterrent. Even without its rapid repetition capability, a
powerful LTD machine would better simulate conditions created by nuclear
weapons, so that data from the laboratory-created explosion of Z firing
could be used with greater certainty in computer simulations regarding
nuclear weapons. The US has refrained from actual testing of nuclear
weapons for 15 years.
But fired repeatedly, the machine could well be the fusion machine that
could form the basis of an electrical generating plant only two decades
away. Progress in this arena might eventually require funding from
DOE's energy arm.
To confirm the new Z concept would take $35 million over five to seven
years to build a test bed with 100 cavities. If successful, future
generations of Z-like facilities would be constructed with LTDs.
Funding thus far has come from two US Congressional Initiatives through
DOE-NNSA Defense Programs, Sandia's internal Laboratory Directed
Research and Development monies, and Sandia's Inertial Confinement
Fusion program.
"It's like building a tinker toy," says Matzen. "We think we
need 60 megamperes to make large fusion yields. But though our
simulations show it can be done, we won't know for certain until we
actually build it."
The device was designed by Tomsk pulsed-power head Alexandar Kim with
the switch developed by Boris Kovalchuk; its speed-up from a microsecond
to 100 nanosecond firing was urged by Sandia manager Dillon McDaniel,
and encouraged by Sandia managers Rick Spielman and Ken Struve; the work
was led at Sandia and Tomsk by Sandia researcher Mike Mazarakis; testing
at Sandia was by Bill Fowler and Robin Sharpe; the Z-IFE fusion energy
program at Sandia was initiated and is managed by Craig Olson.
Recent results on LTD development will be presented at the IEEE
International Pulsed Power Conference and the IEEE Symposium on Fusion
Engineering to be held in Albuquerque in June 2007.
Sandia has filed a patent application on a high-power pulsed-power
accelerator invented by William Stygar that can use an LTD as the
primary power generator to replace the conventional Marx generator.
Top of Page
Sandia is a multiprogram laboratory operated by Sandia Corporation, a
Lockheed Martin company, for the U.S. Department of Energy's National
Nuclear Security Administration. Sandia has major R&D responsibilities
in national security, energy and environmental technologies, and
economic competitiveness.
Sandia news media contact: Neal Singer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] , (505)
845-7078
(c)2006 Sandia Corporation | Questions and Comments | Privacy and
Security
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The ADC 6.7" motor going into my Datsun truck conversion is a salvaged fork
lift pump motor. Scrapped electric forklifts often come with 3 motors with
EV potential along with a host of contactors and other parts that may be
applicable.
damon
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Electric fork lift hydraulic pumps?
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 10:45:46 -0500
I see a lot of guys are using fork lift motors for propulsion, what do
electric fork lifts use for hydraulic pumps for steering and lifting? I
know my ICE forklift uses an ICE driven power steering pump. Are there
some surplus electric steering pumps going to waste?
Marty
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--- Begin Message ---
Marty,
There are a lot of varities of forklifts, so a varity
of systems. Common is a 5 to 6.5 inch diameter PM or
compound motor running a pump for steering and
accessories like tilt, sideshift, reach, etc. Then
the main mast cylinder is powered by a larger pump on
a 6.5 to 9 inch diameter sereis (sometimes compound)
motor. The pump motors are designed to run at battery
voltage, ie. 24, 36 or 48V. The larger pump motors
are suitable for EV traction if you can get coupled to
them, most have internal splines. The power steer
motors probably go to waste due mostly to mechanical
coupling problems. Not much good unless you want to
run a pump at design voltage for about 1 or 2 hp.
Jeff
--- Marty Hewes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I see a lot of guys are using fork lift motors for
> propulsion, what do
> electric fork lifts use for hydraulic pumps for
> steering and lifting? I
> know my ICE forklift uses an ICE driven power
> steering pump. Are there some
> surplus electric steering pumps going to waste?
>
> Marty
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play
Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try... http://www.electrofit-zapi.com/hfelecpowsteer.htm
MW
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI, this page turned up on my Google EV search:
http://technocrat.net/d/2007/5/14/19848
Might be worth a look and the occasional comment from the folks here, though
it looks like the host has lined up a fairly impressive set of experts
already.
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marty Hewes wrote:
How about for street use, with a string of caps in parallel with GC
batteries? It might just be a way to get 1K amps for the first few
seconds without toasting the batteries?
The idea has merit, but I don't think this particular combination would
work very well.
When you first start out, the battery current won't be anything close to
1000 amps; it will be 100-200 at most. That's because the controller is
stepping the voltage down, and thus current up, into the initially
stopped motor. Even a Zilla producing 2000 motor amps won't draw over
200 battery amps initially. Golf cart batteries don't have any problem
supplying this kind of current; so the capacitors provide no benefit.
As the motor speeds up, its voltage rises, so the battery current goes
up (assuming the controller is in current limit). The battery current
*gradually* rises, which is not a good situation for having the
capacitors supply it. So, the batteries will still supply most of it.
For the capacitors to provide a strong benefit, you would need to use
exceptionally low-resistance capacitors with exceptionally
high-resistance batteries. For instance, the capacitors would help when
the golf cart batteries are almost dead, because their internal
resistance will be so much higher.
Or, you could use a separate controller or DC/DC converter for the
batteries and capacitors. This way you can control which one supplies
the current. The one for the batteries would have to allow for the large
voltage change versus state of charge for the capacitors.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use the ZTA's all the time. They are rather pricey but do exactly
what they profess.
I keep several in stock.
Shawn Llawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: Electric Power Steering
Try... http://www.electrofit-zapi.com/hfelecpowsteer.htm
MW
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee,
I have done some testing with ultracapacitor assisted
battery systems. Granted, it depends on the
specifics, but in general the ultracap will have
resistance 5 to 10 times lower than the battery, so
will react much faster. So, if your battery is sized
for peak power as maybe would be for a drag race,
battery voltage will droop to nearly half. As this
happens, the cap will discharge and deliver about 3/4
of its stored energy. The real question is wheather
the mass of the cap would be better spent in a larger
battery which would not droop as much. Or do away
with the battery and run a bigger cap only. For a 1/4
mile and lead batteries, maybe. With A123, option one
wins. I never ran a 1/4 mile and never had an A123,
but that's my thoughts.
Jeff
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Marty Hewes wrote:
> > How about for street use, with a string of caps in
> parallel with GC
> > batteries? It might just be a way to get 1K amps
> for the first few
> > seconds without toasting the batteries?
>
> The idea has merit, but I don't think this
> particular combination would
> work very well.
>
> When you first start out, the battery current won't
> be anything close to
> 1000 amps; it will be 100-200 at most. That's
> because the controller is
> stepping the voltage down, and thus current up, into
> the initially
> stopped motor. Even a Zilla producing 2000 motor
> amps won't draw over
> 200 battery amps initially. Golf cart batteries
> don't have any problem
> supplying this kind of current; so the capacitors
> provide no benefit.
>
> As the motor speeds up, its voltage rises, so the
> battery current goes
> up (assuming the controller is in current limit).
> The battery current
> *gradually* rises, which is not a good situation for
> having the
> capacitors supply it. So, the batteries will still
> supply most of it.
>
> For the capacitors to provide a strong benefit, you
> would need to use
> exceptionally low-resistance capacitors with
> exceptionally
> high-resistance batteries. For instance, the
> capacitors would help when
> the golf cart batteries are almost dead, because
> their internal
> resistance will be so much higher.
>
> Or, you could use a separate controller or DC/DC
> converter for the
> batteries and capacitors. This way you can control
> which one supplies
> the current. The one for the batteries would have to
> allow for the large
> voltage change versus state of charge for the
> capacitors.
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Got
a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks nice, you can do away with the hydraulics and go straight
electric.
Where do you buy those from?
On May 15, 2007, at 10:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I use the ZTA's all the time. They are rather pricey but do
exactly what they profess.
I keep several in stock.
Shawn Llawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: Electric Power Steering
Try... http://www.electrofit-zapi.com/hfelecpowsteer.htm
MW
______________________________________________________________________
__
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe you can move your taperlock coupler a little bit?
On the brake thing, the Camaro racers use Hawk pads. My old, unknown brand pads
lasted at least 70k miles and were only 1/2 worn! I could push the pedal with
all my might and not kick in the antilock brakes. I just switched to Hawk pads
-- wow, what a difference! It feels like a 2nd power brake booster has been
added to the car. The car stops so fast now I can feel the blood pressure
rising in my face.
Autozone had disk brakes for my car for only $21 each -- it might be worth just
getting new ones rather than turn the old ones, especially if the car is
heavier than before.
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:27:34 AM
Subject: Shave My Adapter?
Howdy,
My E-Porsche 914 (1974') clutch doesn't release and I was wondering if the VW
bug adapter I bought is too thick and by how much OR if the bug clutch disc &
pressure plate are the wrong dimensions (thickness) for the Porsche. Does
anyone, Mike Brown etc know the dimensional differences between the bug &
Porsche clutch from that era? ( It appears the throwout bearing isn't traveling
all the way before the arm bottoms out on the exit casing). It's like
clutchless shifting right now (crunchy between gears).
Also I was curious about what brake pads have the best cooefficient of
friction. There's a lot of BS in the brake pad world. I was told that organic
Mintex pads were better than metalic but don't see any friction rating numbers
just various "heavy duty", "titanium" and other meaningless claims. ...
____________________________________________________________________________________Ready
for the edge of your seat?
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why would the controller be stepping down the voltage when you are
launching at full-throttle?
It is just at this point that the battery voltage sags trying to deliver
all its amps, and when the caps will provide the boost in volts and amps.
I agree that the caps must have low resistance, there are many
high-capacity caps that are not designed for high-current and have high
resistance. I didn't look at the audio caps, but the 400F Ness caps I
mentioned have only 3.8Mohm.
Jack
Lee Hart wrote:
Marty Hewes wrote:
How about for street use, with a string of caps in parallel with GC
batteries? It might just be a way to get 1K amps for the first few
seconds without toasting the batteries?
The idea has merit, but I don't think this particular combination would
work very well.
When you first start out, the battery current won't be anything close to
1000 amps; it will be 100-200 at most. That's because the controller is
stepping the voltage down, and thus current up, into the initially
stopped motor. Even a Zilla producing 2000 motor amps won't draw over
200 battery amps initially. Golf cart batteries don't have any problem
supplying this kind of current; so the capacitors provide no benefit.
As the motor speeds up, its voltage rises, so the battery current goes
up (assuming the controller is in current limit). The battery current
*gradually* rises, which is not a good situation for having the
capacitors supply it. So, the batteries will still supply most of it.
For the capacitors to provide a strong benefit, you would need to use
exceptionally low-resistance capacitors with exceptionally
high-resistance batteries. For instance, the capacitors would help when
the golf cart batteries are almost dead, because their internal
resistance will be so much higher.
Or, you could use a separate controller or DC/DC converter for the
batteries and capacitors. This way you can control which one supplies
the current. The one for the batteries would have to allow for the large
voltage change versus state of charge for the capacitors.
--- End Message ---
