EV Digest 6778
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: belly pan plastic
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile
by "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile
by "Al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Catch Phrase for the 21st century and Solar Power
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Catch Phrase for the 21st century and Solar Power
by "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Charging timer
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: belly pan plastic
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: belly pan plastic
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Tango #3 at the Wayland EV Juice Bar & More!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: belly pan plastic
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: belly pan plastic
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: belly pan plastic
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile
by "Al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Tango #3 at the Wayland EV Juice Bar & More!
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Solectra/Azure Dynamics DMOC445 AC controller
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: belly pan plastic
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: [sfeva] Honda Hydrogen Fuel Cell BOYCOTT?
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Solectria used a corrugated plastic material. It reminds me of the stuff
that US Postal Service carrying boxes are made from. (If you have a
business with a PO box, you probably have a collection of these boxes, so
you know what I mean.)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Interesting thought. But how could they tax the electricity you used on the
road vs. what you used in your house? Require a seperate meter?
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Its a forgotten small detail, but if everyone converted to EV's, state and
federal road taxes now applied to gasoline would have to be added to the
cost of electricity, boosting the electrical cost/mile somewhat.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think some states have in the past increased the annual electric vehicle
tabs to compensate for lost fuel tax revenue. Right now, however, I think
the greater emphasis is on incentives for hybrids and other clean cars. Tax
increases are inevitable and will come later.
On Tue, 15 May 2007 22:32:12 -0500, Marty Hewes wrote
> Interesting thought. But how could they tax the electricity you
> used on the road vs. what you used in your house? Require a
> seperate meter?
>
> Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > Its a forgotten small detail, but if everyone converted to EV's, state
and
> > federal road taxes now applied to gasoline would have to be added to the
> > cost of electricity, boosting the electrical cost/mile somewhat.
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
George, I have considered solar panels, you could have 3 full size panels, 1
in the middle and 1 that unfolds on each side(if your parking space allows
it). The price you would pay would be too much for the relatively small
amount of power you could harvest. Best case 3X 200W panels. Say 6 hrs sun
X 600W = 3.6kwh. Maybe 9-10 miles. BUT panels add ~150lbs and cost ~ $4500
!!!
I'll save my money for a new or better battery pack
Al
From: "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile
Al, I know several EV owners that have solar panels. Their power is
"free"
at least some of the time. I suppose it would be more practical in
Arizona
than N.J.
Solar panels take about 10 years to pay back when compared to present
electrical rates. The pay back when compared to present (and near
future?)
gasoline cost is much quicker. I plan to have solar panels on my next EV
which will be a small pick up. I calculate that I can add about one mile
of
range for every good hour of sunshine while parked at work.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Marty Hewes
> But how could they tax the electricity you used on the
> road vs. what you used in your house? Require a seperate meter?
When I lived in Michigan (1981-1992) the law states that taxes must be paid on
*all* fuels used for motor vehicles. In my case, that meant having a separate
electric meter, and filing a "sales and use tax" form once a year. Though, the
amount was so low that after a couple years they told me I didn't have to pay
it any more (the cost of the paperwork exceeded the tax revenue, I guess).
--
I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum. --
Frances Willard
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
While I was on the Stage in front of hundreds of attendees, at the
"POWER UP Electrifying Transportation Conference"
( http://www.plugincenter.com/ )
in Wenatchee Washington this afternoon... With
Andy Frank PH.D. UC Davis The FATHER of PHEV's
and Steve Heckeroth, Member of the Solar Energy Society
and the American Solar Energy Society..
and Steve Johnson, Ph.D, Director of the Washington State Public
Utility District Association...
After several presentations on solar power...
I had an Epiphany....
A "Catch Phrase" to sum up the fact that
to GO SOLAR ...For Energy, AND for EV's even in a small way...
Would have a tremendous PAY Back and a potential
to EARN $$ When and IF gas gets to $5 per Gal.... (and beyond)
It came to me....
and the phrase is
" S T O P B U R N I N G"
" S T A R T E A R N I N G"
Or in plain English.. to stop burning fossil fuels, and install some
solar... one could start Earning a Return on your investment....
(r)( registered) ( ...well not really but I'm working on it...)
( NOT for monetary remuneration... just for a little credit of its
creation....)
Now... I want this idea to get some LEGS !! It got a GREAT CHEER from
the Assembly at the Wenatchee Convention Center...
USE it.... COPY it... Bumper Stickers... Etc.
Just put a reeely little fine line....
( steven s lough, seattle EV association 5-07 )
Just keep in mind where it came from, ( and from whom )
PS: The whole Two Day Seminar was wonderful. Also many folks who
attended the conference at the Microsoft Campus the previous Monday were
there to include: Ron Johnston-Rodrigues, Steve Marshall, Cascadia
Center and others...
I will try to summarize many of the high points in the next 48 hours.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve, Nice post. Wenatchee gets 300+ days of sunshine per year. Seattle
is not as good! There is one fellow in Seattle that charges his car with
solar cells on his house, and also got a check for $600 from Seattle City
light for power he generated and returned to the grid last year. You
probably know him, he drives a Solectra. Not bad.
On Tue, 15 May 2007 20:53:32 -0700, Steven Lough wrote
> While I was on the Stage in front of hundreds of attendees, at the
> "POWER UP Electrifying Transportation Conference"
>
> ( http://www.plugincenter.com/ )
>
> in Wenatchee Washington this afternoon... With
>
> Andy Frank PH.D. UC Davis The FATHER of PHEV's
> and Steve Heckeroth, Member of the Solar Energy Society
> and the American Solar Energy Society..
> and Steve Johnson, Ph.D, Director of the Washington State Public
> Utility District Association...
>
> After several presentations on solar power...
>
> I had an Epiphany....
> A "Catch Phrase" to sum up the fact that
> to GO SOLAR ...For Energy, AND for EV's even in a small way...
> Would have a tremendous PAY Back and a potential
> to EARN $$ When and IF gas gets to $5 per Gal.... (and beyond)
> It came to me....
>
> and the phrase is
>
> " S T O P B U R N I N G"
> " S T A R T E A R N I N G"
>
> Or in plain English.. to stop burning fossil fuels, and install
> some solar... one could start Earning a Return on your investment....
>
> (r)( registered) ( ...well not really but I'm working on it...)
>
> ( NOT for monetary remuneration... just for a little credit of its
> creation....)
>
> Now... I want this idea to get some LEGS !! It got a GREAT CHEER
> from the Assembly at the Wenatchee Convention Center... USE it....
> COPY it... Bumper Stickers... Etc. Just put a reeely little fine
> line....
> ( steven s lough, seattle EV association 5-07 )
>
> Just keep in mind where it came from, ( and from whom )
>
> PS: The whole Two Day Seminar was wonderful. Also many folks who
> attended the conference at the Microsoft Campus the previous Monday
> were there to include: Ron Johnston-Rodrigues, Steve Marshall,
> Cascadia Center and others...
>
> I will try to summarize many of the high points in the next 48 hours.
>
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 15 May 2007 at 1:17, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> This all is on top of regular overtemp emergency shutoff and built in
> timer every charger comes with as standard features. NLG5 have pretty
> impressive list of safety related functions.
Many of these features were also present in the NLG4 range. I might also
mention that full galvanic isolation is a given with these chargers.
Brusa has always built chargers that meet European (and US, at least in
later models) regulatory requirements. Not all EV chargers do. AFAIK,
their chargers are unique in that they provide fairly extensive user and
vehicle safeguards, but unlike most other "dummy-proof" chargers, they're
not locked down. You don't have to ship them back to the dealer or
distributor if you change your battery voltage, or if you think the finish
current is too high. They're fully user-programmable and have the
flexibility that EV hobbyists require - though it's probably there for the
sake of EV researchers rather than for us.
Of course, nothing is free. These chargers are not cheap - at least not by
the kW, though in the long run they may earn their keep by preserving your
battery or your vehicle. You pay up front for the extra hardware and design
effort that goes into this usability and protection for battery, vehicle,
and owner/driver. Whether that's worth it to you depends on your purpose
and mission.
It's certainly worth it to businesses and organizations that want to
minimize the risk of litigation over safety issues.
It's also worth it to a certain flavor of EV hobbyist who wants to drive the
car rather than tinker with it, and has the financial resources to apply.
You'll find some of these folks over on the Solectria-EV Yahoo group.
They're are surprisingly avid customers of Valence lithium batteries,
because Valence has a "fully cooked" design that drops right into the cars
where the old East Penn 8G27s used to live.
For the backyard tinkerer using surplus parts and plugging in to 240 volt
power with a two-plug cheater cord - maybe not. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Lexan (a trade name for polycarbonate) is a poor choice for impact
resistance. It is actually somewhat brittle, relatively speaking.
Unless you need the clarity, there is no reason to use it. Also, Lexan
scratches easier than acrylic (Plexiglass) and will be probably rapidly
scratched by road debris being under the vehicle.
They go:
LDPE
HDPE
UHMW-PE
UHMW-PE is expensive but unbelievably tough. It is also chemically
resistant to most anything it may come in contact with. However, all
the PEs are subject to UV damage unless otherwise specified. There are
some additives which may slow down the rate of UV damage. Black is
always better but this is an unusual color to get. Polypropylene is
more UV resistant than PE, but hardly "UV proof".
However, being UNDER a car should not get that much UV. I suspect this
will probably be safe even without a UV stabilized version.
The corrugated plastic material is called "Coroplast", at least that's
the biggest mfg'er. Coroplast is corrugated polypropylene and you'll
find many signs are made from it, even some of those stuck into the
ground by the road. It is readily available from any plastics supply
store. It is cheap, light, and tough, though nowhere near as strong as
a 1/8" sheet of UHMW. However, I'd suspect it's strong enough to do
this job! Given the low weight and cost, I expect this may be the best
choice. Special mounting procedures would need to be used, generally
this means large washers to spread out the force so it does not tear
around the bolt holes.
Danny
David Roden wrote:
Solectria used a corrugated plastic material. It reminds me of the stuff
that US Postal Service carrying boxes are made from. (If you have a
business with a PO box, you probably have a collection of these boxes, so
you know what I mean.)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Actually, that stuff is sold near here (Willamette Valley,OR), and used for
sheeting for greenhouses, etc.
However, it is somewhat expensive, last I checked, and probably more so now
:)
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: belly pan plastic
Solectria used a corrugated plastic material. It reminds me of the stuff
that US Postal Service carrying boxes are made from. (If you have a
business with a PO box, you probably have a collection of these boxes, so
you know what I mean.)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- Begin Message ---
No, they would not tax electricity used.
There are already test projects to replace fuel taxes and/or toll roads
with either an odometer reading or much more likely a GPS system. The
GPS is far preferred since it discriminates between miles driven
in-state and can change billing for toll roads and by time, attempting
to resolve traffic congestion by charging extra during rush hours to
encourage people to drive differently.
One of the stated motivations has actually been that fuel taxes are
unfair because hybrid cars pay much less road tax than a Hummer. No
joke. They've actually said this.
I fear this more "convenient" form of billing could quickly lead to it
becoming as complex as, and as much a scam as, a cell phone contract. I
would not be surprised if it still cost half as much or more to drive a
vehicle which used completely free fuel as it did to drive with gasoline.
Also important is a closed "black box" system operated in your car is
extremely prone to privacy issues. They have claimed that travel habits
will not be recorded. However, it would be nearly impossible to
guarantee that the system would not record people's entire travel
histories! In fact, without a history, it would be impossible to audit
the system. This would be like receiving a long distance phone bill
with a completely unexplained total sum at the bottom. A bug
(accidental or otherwise) could occasionally add $5 in fees over the
legitimate bill and it'd be impossible to argue against or even find it.
Or it would be fairly easy to just slip in a visible requirement in the
Patriot Act 2009 or whatever that this data is going to be recorded for
Homeland Security use. This is quite a believable outcome.
Danny
Marty Hewes wrote:
Interesting thought. But how could they tax the electricity you used
on the road vs. what you used in your house? Require a seperate meter?
Marty
----- Original Message ----- From: "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Its a forgotten small detail, but if everyone converted to EV's,
state and
federal road taxes now applied to gasoline would have to be added to the
cost of electricity, boosting the electrical cost/mile somewhat.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve and Bill definitely know.
Now, we have had ultracap cars run at NEDRA.
The BYU EV1 is powered by 400 volts of ultracapacitors.
They took the 400 volt record for their class at the 2005 Power of DC
with a 14.080 second run at 91 mph. The run was recorded by the
Discovery Channel. They have also run the car at Las Vegas.
What they do is dump charge the Maxwell Ultracaps with a pack of
Optima Red Tops. They push the car to the starting line. Then let it
rip. I don't know the specs on the ultracaps though.
The big problem they have had is torque. The team ended up having
custom half shafts built of hardened steel to keep from breaking
axles. Someone with more knowledge on the vehicle could elaborate.
See ya all at the Power of DC June 2-3 in Hagerstown!
Chip
On May 15, 2007, at 11:21 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: May 15, 2007 9:28:41 PM EDT
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
--- Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
OK, so I looked up the specific power of Ness caps,
and the spec sheet
shows 8500 Watts/kg, and your beloved A123 cells are
4999 Watts/kg when
discharged at a crushing short lifetime rate of
100C, and at the only
way short lifetime rate of 30C they are 2700
Watts/kg, according to the
chart by A123,
http://www.a123systems.com/images/charts/highPower.jpg
Nuff said?
Yes, Nuff said. The timeslips speak louder than
words.
- Steven Ciciora, BMS Designer for www.KillaCycle.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Geesh...the recent flurry of high profile EV excitement continued for me
this past Saturday, as my long-time friend Rick Woodbury paid me a visit
arriving with his new car trailer with another fresh Tango inside.
Things are going well in Tango-land, as evidenced by the incredible
improvements I've gotten to see first hand in this latest version. This
is the third Tango I've got to play with, but it is officially serial #2.
#0 is the prototype red Tango I've worked on and designed the sound
system for, the one I've driven many times, and the one I've had in
pieces in my backyard EV shop.
#1 is the glossy-black George Clooney car. I also designed the audio
system for this Tango. I secretly worked on this black beauty at
Clooney's place in the Fall of 2005. The highlight....I got to meet and
get to know George's famous pet pot-bellied pig Max who passed away
recently. Some day I'll have to tell the 'full story' about how Max was
scratching his back under Clooney's Tango that was up on jack stands
(minus its ballast of heavy batteries) and how the light weight
battery-less body was nearly toppled off the stands :-(
Now, here comes Tango #2 as its being readied for a programmer at
Google. Unpainted at this time, it looked techy-cool with its primer
grey finish and headlight-less slots in front. This version has the
first NiMH pack installed in a Tango with an impressive 22 kwhr of
usable capacity! The carbon fiber body is ultra-light and the build
quality is excellent. Inside, the interior looks super pro with the best
materials used. Everything is upscale compared to previous Tangos, from
the seats and the hardware they mount to, to the all new dash and all
new integrated air con system. New 14" front and 15" rear Koenig wheels
replace the smaller 13 inchers of past. Lots of other changes as well,
too many to keep going on about. It was fun seeing how this unique car
is evolving.
Ironically, as Rick was heading south through Portland on his way to
Palo Alto the guys from Arizona who are doing an EV story that will
include lots of Tango footage, were heading north into Portland. Rick
left here around 3:00 or so to continue on his road trip to California,
then a few hours later the call came in from the AZ guys at 6:00 saying
they had arrived in town. Sunday we got together for my part in their
story. In addition to my EVs, they were also interested in my hybrid
ownership and years of having one. We talked about the news media's
negative spin that 'hybrids don't get their EPA rated mpg' I told them,
"Yeah, my Honda Insight doesn't get it EPA ratings either...it gets
more!" A few weekends ago my wife and I took a trip down to Otmar's
house to be involved with the AC Insight project, so it was perfect that
my Insight's dash display was still indicating the 195 traveled miles @
72.1 mpg for the entire trip which included in-town driving, too. The
camera man zoomed in on the car's legible digital dash display.
One of videographers was one who had worked on the TV series 'Pinks', so
he was really into fast cars. I gave him a ride in White Zombie (yes,
it's running again) on our way to a local park we used as a photo
session backdrop. As I was listening to him tell me about the quick cars
he's ridden in. As we were rolling at around 10 mph or so while he was
talking away and not expecting it, I jabbed the throttle and banged his
head pretty hard against the thinly padded racing seatback. The words
and explicatives that came out of him were priceless, and he had this
HUGE EV grin....then I did it again, and again he was slammed back. He
complained that his neck hurt from the car's surreal acceleration. He
pronounced it the most aggressive street car acceleration he'd ever felt.
This week after other Portland area business is handled, they'll
eventually go north east into Washington ending up in Spokane to
interview Brian Woodbury and do Tango stuff. The piece they're doing
will be distributed in June nationally, for use with evening news shows
about 'going green'. They asked if I could supply them with White Zombie
drag racing video stuff, so it looks like my high school video crew's
March footage just might come in handy. That video captured by four
cameras is nearly finished up, distilled down to an exciting (I'm told)
4 minute bit with music and all kinds of cool stuff. I get to see it on
the 30th at his school where the short video will be debuted in front of
an audience.
See Ya....John Wayland
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David wrote -
> Solectria used a corrugated plastic material. It reminds me of the stuff
> that US Postal Service carrying boxes are made from. (If you have a
> business with a PO box, you probably have a collection of these boxes, so
> you know what I mean.)
It is called Coroplast and it comes in almost any color. The cost for a 4ft x 8
ft sheet here in Tucson is about $12. Just check with your local plastic
wholesale company in the yellow pages.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
www.TEVA2.com
www.Airphibian.com
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Hi Al,
Years ago when I dropped some buck$$$ on upgrades to my EV, I
asked my (then) local EV converter Mike Slominski to add some
mileage to my ever inefficient wind-pusher 1985 S-10 Blazer
(flat front, and it weighs a couple tons).
He went to Tap Plastics (a local plastic store chain) and ordered
large smooth black plastic sheets (about 1/8" thick) to mount
under my EV. His plan was to reduce air drag from under the EV
where air swirled around in the cavities and pockets that are
under the vehicle.
Mike chose to use two large smooth plastic sheets as wide as
the S-10 vehicle body, but about half the vehicle length.
The first piece covered from the under the front bumper to
behind the transmission. The second piece took over when the
first left off and covered from the rear of the transmission
to the rear bumper.
My air drag was reduced and my range was increased. By my rough
calculations, the mileage was increase was as much as 10% when
I kept my highway speed at a steady 55mph (fast enough for the
highway, but slow enough to reduce the drag losses from pushing
air with the front grill).
All worked well for several years. When Mike moved away and
retired from EV work much changed.
When I needed to have a pair of 4 gage cables installed for
addition charger wiring ability, I had the plastic sheets
removed.
Since at the time, I was no longer in a time-freedom or
monetary position to make the long-distance public-charging
runs I had in the past (I've driven my EV six times round
trip to Sacramento ~160+ miles off public charging),
I figured whoever I got to do work on my EV, the plastic
cover sheets would get in their way.
With those sheets removed, my range was similarily reduced.
Those plastic sheets had served their purpose well: to prove
that even an old wind-pusher EV conversion like mine can
enjoy a mileage improvement when using that method.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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In my case its 20 batteries at $110 or $2200 divided by say 20,000 miles =
11 cents per mile for batteries + 7.5 cents for "fuel" = 18.5 cents per
mile. Not too bad if gas is over $3 a gallon.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile
"Al" == Al <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Al> Even with a light foot I average 15Kwh for 30 miles. So 2 miles per
Al> Kwh or 500Whr per mile.Here in NJ, 15 cents Kwh or $2.25 for 30
Al> miles, or 7.5 cents per mile....
Al> Its pretty hard for me to make a case for EV's to people who
Al> inevitably ask how much it costs to drive. And I haven't included
Al> battery costs yet
At the prevailing price around here (about $3.40/gal) and assuming my
Volvo
averages about 18 mpg (which is about what it's averaged over the life of
the car - mostly around town driving) I'm paying 18.9 cents per mile just
for gas. 7.5 cents per mile doesn't sound so bad. I don't know what your
battery costs work out to. Tossing out some ballpark figures: 12
batteries
at about $75 a pop which last for 30,000 miles (is that too optimistic?)
only tacks on another 3 cents per mile. Drop it to 10,000 miles and
you're
still only at 9 cents per mile. Are my guesses way off base?
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
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wasn't / isn't the Tango a non-alternative ?
too narrow, too heavy, too un-beautiful ?
i was almost fixed on it in my mind till i saw
the price tag .. dreams die quickly when the
light of real world shines on the price tag
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:30 AM
Subject: Tango #3 at the Wayland EV Juice Bar & More!
> Hello to All,
>
> Geesh...the recent flurry of high profile EV excitement continued for me
> this past Saturday, as my long-time friend Rick Woodbury paid me a visit
> arriving with his new car trailer with another fresh Tango inside.
> Things are going well in Tango-land, as evidenced by the incredible
> improvements I've gotten to see first hand in this latest version. This
> is the third Tango I've got to play with, but it is officially serial #2.
>
> #0 is the prototype red Tango I've worked on and designed the sound
> system for, the one I've driven many times, and the one I've had in
> pieces in my backyard EV shop.
>
> #1 is the glossy-black George Clooney car. I also designed the audio
> system for this Tango. I secretly worked on this black beauty at
> Clooney's place in the Fall of 2005. The highlight....I got to meet and
> get to know George's famous pet pot-bellied pig Max who passed away
> recently. Some day I'll have to tell the 'full story' about how Max was
> scratching his back under Clooney's Tango that was up on jack stands
> (minus its ballast of heavy batteries) and how the light weight
> battery-less body was nearly toppled off the stands :-(
>
> Now, here comes Tango #2 as its being readied for a programmer at
> Google. Unpainted at this time, it looked techy-cool with its primer
> grey finish and headlight-less slots in front. This version has the
> first NiMH pack installed in a Tango with an impressive 22 kwhr of
> usable capacity! The carbon fiber body is ultra-light and the build
> quality is excellent. Inside, the interior looks super pro with the best
> materials used. Everything is upscale compared to previous Tangos, from
> the seats and the hardware they mount to, to the all new dash and all
> new integrated air con system. New 14" front and 15" rear Koenig wheels
> replace the smaller 13 inchers of past. Lots of other changes as well,
> too many to keep going on about. It was fun seeing how this unique car
> is evolving.
>
> Ironically, as Rick was heading south through Portland on his way to
> Palo Alto the guys from Arizona who are doing an EV story that will
> include lots of Tango footage, were heading north into Portland. Rick
> left here around 3:00 or so to continue on his road trip to California,
> then a few hours later the call came in from the AZ guys at 6:00 saying
> they had arrived in town. Sunday we got together for my part in their
> story. In addition to my EVs, they were also interested in my hybrid
> ownership and years of having one. We talked about the news media's
> negative spin that 'hybrids don't get their EPA rated mpg' I told them,
> "Yeah, my Honda Insight doesn't get it EPA ratings either...it gets
> more!" A few weekends ago my wife and I took a trip down to Otmar's
> house to be involved with the AC Insight project, so it was perfect that
> my Insight's dash display was still indicating the 195 traveled miles @
> 72.1 mpg for the entire trip which included in-town driving, too. The
> camera man zoomed in on the car's legible digital dash display.
>
> One of videographers was one who had worked on the TV series 'Pinks', so
> he was really into fast cars. I gave him a ride in White Zombie (yes,
> it's running again) on our way to a local park we used as a photo
> session backdrop. As I was listening to him tell me about the quick cars
> he's ridden in. As we were rolling at around 10 mph or so while he was
> talking away and not expecting it, I jabbed the throttle and banged his
> head pretty hard against the thinly padded racing seatback. The words
> and explicatives that came out of him were priceless, and he had this
> HUGE EV grin....then I did it again, and again he was slammed back. He
> complained that his neck hurt from the car's surreal acceleration. He
> pronounced it the most aggressive street car acceleration he'd ever felt.
>
> This week after other Portland area business is handled, they'll
> eventually go north east into Washington ending up in Spokane to
> interview Brian Woodbury and do Tango stuff. The piece they're doing
> will be distributed in June nationally, for use with evening news shows
> about 'going green'. They asked if I could supply them with White Zombie
> drag racing video stuff, so it looks like my high school video crew's
> March footage just might come in handy. That video captured by four
> cameras is nearly finished up, distilled down to an exciting (I'm told)
> 4 minute bit with music and all kinds of cool stuff. I get to see it on
> the 30th at his school where the short video will be debuted in front of
> an audience.
>
> See Ya....John Wayland
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date: 5/14/2007
4:46 PM
>
>
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Have any of you been to Azure Dynamics website?
http://www.azuredynamics.com
Here is the link to their controllers: http://www.azuredynamics.com/
controller.htm
Link to their motors: http://www.azuredynamics.com/motors.htm
Their Product Support statement: http://www.azuredynamics.com/
product_support.htm Which sounds pretty good :O
I emailed them about the controller to find out if it has been
updated since it was made by Solectra and to ask for more info on it.
Tehben
On May 15, 2007, at 7:21 PM, damon henry wrote:
Well, if EA or Azure will offer some kind of support then you
should be in pretty good shape. I just know there is not a lot of
chatter on this list about these systems. I also know that with
Metricmind you get a quality product and top notch support. I've
also heard nothing but good about EA and the fact that they are one
of the few compainies that has been able to sustain an EV based
business speaks volumes.
From: Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Solectra/Azure Dynamics DMOC445 AC controller
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 18:29:37 -0800
Well Asure Dynamics is still around producing stuff like hybrid
drives and they have the controller and motor on there website.
Wouldn't the people at Electro Automotive be able to provide
support?... anyway I set an email asking that very question to EA
today.
But yah I am not quite sure what to do at the moment.
Tehben
On May 15, 2007, at 6:19 PM, damon henry wrote:
Well, you've already bumped up against the main problem. If you
go with the Metricmind stuff you will have a reliable source for
any questions you want to ask. With the DMOC445 maybe/maybe not...
damon
From: Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Solectra/Azure Dynamics DMOC445 AC controller
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 16:56:01 -0800
Does anyone have firsthand experience with the DMOC445?
How many parameters can you adjust for stuff like regen etc.
with software on a computer or whatever?
I think I might end up going with it because the Siemens stuff
from metric mind is so much more expensive.. especially the
motors and i think he said that they only sell the controller
with a motor.
Still not sure what to do.
I do live in Alaska so over heating the motor is not as much a
problem as say Florida or Southern California. Even though the
water cooled system would be nice for heating the cabin.
Tehben
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