EV Digest 6804
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: How regen works
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Best paint for Battery racks
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Best paint for Battery racks
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Best paint for Battery racks
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 15k DIY Porsche. 20k Installed.
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 42 more to go!
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 42 more to go!
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: 42 more to go!
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Honda Hydrogen Fuel Cell BOYCOTT?
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) PIR June 29-30 EV drag racing?
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Watt-hour semantics question
by Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Evlist public Calender and ev mailed faq needed
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Reality check, Re: Permanent magnet motor question
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Best paint for Battery racks
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Watt-hour semantics question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 15k DIY Porsche. 20k Installed.
by Jeff Mccabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Best Conversion Vehicle
by Dan Whitley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Best Conversion Vehicle
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Best Conversion Vehicle
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
My take is that as long as you aren't going down Lombard street in San
Francisco on a fully charged AGM pack, charging current during regen is not
too much of an issue.
Assuming you set your switching frequency high enough to be out of human
hearing range (~16khz) you will likely be fast enough to avoid saturation.
Also, check out Richard Torrens' excellent site for some great info on Regen
and controllers in general:
http://www.4qdtec.com/pwm-01.html#regen
If you are considering building a controller, his entire technical area is
recommended reading! Lot's of neat stuff to be learned! He includes many
schematics as well....
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "tt2tjw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: How regen works
Thanks Phil,
this sent me in the right direction, "boost converter" on wikipedia,
I have learnt that;
back emf=V=dLambda/dt=L(di/dt) + i (dL/dt)
and since L is nearly constant
V=L(di/dt)
so if the switch is on for D.T seconds and off for (1-D).T seconds in
every cycle and if the switching frequency is high enough to prevent all
the energy stored in the inductor from transferring in one part of the
cycle, then;
when the switch is closed
deltaI=V.D/L
when the switch is opened
deltaI=deltaV(1-D)/L
and so
deltaV=V.D/(1-D)
or
D=1-(V generated in armature) / (desired V to charge batteries)
I guess that (provided the switching frequency is high enough) the above
is a good estimate of the required value of D to charge the batteries.
Probably there are other variables too and also V generated in the
armature will be changing. So, the charging current should be monitored,
if too high then increase D if too low then decrease D.
Have I got the right idea?
(-Phil-) wrote:
If you use a switch (chopper) to "short" the armature momentarily, then
the current that was flowing there has no where to go all the sudden, and
begins to build up as a magnetic field in the armature. This is
essentially "storing" the energy as inductance. Then the switch opens,
and the magnetic field collapses, it's lines of force cutting back across
the windings (just the opposite of what was happening an instant ago.)
It induces a high voltage in the coils and that turns the freewheeling
diode on and dumps the now (much higher voltage) into the battery bank.
The switching is done very fast, so the magnetic field never reaches
saturation.
This is the same principle used in a "boost converter" but rather than
using a separate inductor, we just use the rather large (and very handy)
one that's in the motor.
-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "tt2tjw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: SepEx Regen Chopper - Help!
Chet
Citroen sepex controllers are arranged like this,
__________
| | |
/ /\ |
_______| | ---- +
| | | - -
motor / /\ |
| | | |
-----------------
"Go" chopper on the high side. "Regen" chopper on the low side
As far as I understand you don't need the regen chopper untill you are
below full field full voltage RPM, above that ROM current will flow
through the free wheel diode into the battery.
Like you I still don't understand how regen occurs at low RPM, I have
been told it is dependent on the inductance of the armature, I haven't
had time to read up about inductance but will let you know if I do,....
or hopefully someone more knowledgeable will reply first.
Personally I'm not that bothered about regen at low RPM but I'm not sure
if there will be a problem for the motor if it isn't implemented.
I have a manual which describes the principle but not the finer details
of my controller, its in French, I am emailing it to you.
I can also send some pictures of the internals of the controller, if
that will help you, but not immediately.
go well,
Tom Ward.
Chet Fields wrote:
Even after reviewing all the Regen info I could find in both the
archives and the web in general I
was hoping someone could help clarify a couple of specific points on
it. Keep in mind I am talking
about a brushed DC SepEx motor.
_____________________________________________
| | | |
| 'Regen' | 'Go' | / \
--- Chopper / Freewheel _____ /Motor\
- / Diode / \ \ /
--- | | \ /
- | | |
| |__________________|__________|
| | | | 'Regen' | | |
Freewheel? | 'Go' / | Diode _____ Chopper
/
| / \ | | | | |
| |
______________|_____________________________|
Assuming that the choppers are PWM driven MOSFETs during 'motoring'
current will flow from the
battery through the motor and the 'Go' chopper when on and through the
'Go' freewheel diode when
off. The battery voltage is always greater than the motor voltage in
this scenario so therefore
current flows in this direction. (I'm talking positive to negative,
conventional? flow) So up to
this point it's pretty clear to me.
However, when we leave the 'Go' chopper off (open) and I apply full
field current this is where it
gets fuzzy. What exactly is happening to the armature windings? They
are now rotating through the
fields' flux and therefore should be creating a voltage across the
windings correct? However,
because they are not hooked to anything there is no current flow. And
because there is no current
there is no 'back' torque or stopping power?
And the voltage that is produced is proportional to the RPM correct?
Which for this particular
motor would be full pack voltage at base speed, right? Or, if there was
any field weakening the
correspondingly lower voltage? In other words, with field weakening the
RPMs would need to rise to
match the RPMs that the motor would spin at full pack voltage with that
particular field strength?
So in order to get current to actually flow back into the battery I
need a greater voltage, and I
will only get that if the motor is rotating at greater than base speed
right? And below base speed
there is no way I could get any regen unless somehow I can boost the
voltage. This is where I need
some help. If we were to 'chop' the regen, as the regen mosfet is
closed this basically shorts the
motor windings allowing current to flow (ramp?) through the windings
and the regen mosfet. Then
when the mosfet is switched off, because of the inductance of the
armature windings the current
continues to flow as the field collapses. But is this voltage
proportional to the duty cycle and
actually higher than the battery pack voltage at some duty cycle less
than 100% and RPM below base
speed? Is this how you can get regen at lower speeds?
And if this is all true, then how can you control the voltage produced
in the off cycle? Do you
simply need to reduce the duty cycle or do you also need to adjust the
field current?
A final question, should I be worried about generating too high a
voltage and protect the
batteries and capicitors (omitted from the diagram) somehow with like a
high power zener (if there
is such a thing)?
I will have 108V nominal battery pack. Is there such a thing as a 135V
or so Zener? How much power
would it need to dissipate? Or, should I try to simply keep the voltage
down with the duty cycle?
Thanks for any help,
Chet Fields
____________________________________________________________________________________Be
a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Properly applied epoxy paint is pretty durable.
Joe Buford wrote:
What would be the best paint to paint the battery
racks after cleaning and striping them?
Thanks
Joe
____________________________________________________________________________________Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 11:17 -0700, Michael Barkley wrote:
> I painted everything that could possibly come into
> contact with battery acid, with "Spray on Bedliner"
> material. Now you can purchase it in a spray can for
> about $8 at WallyWorld, and most auto parts stores.
>
> We used it at a metal pickling plant on all exposed
> metal that we didn't want the sulphuric acid to
> attack. We had tested it's durability by coating a
> piece of steel, and dipping it in the 10% solution of
> sulphuric acid for over a month, and it did not get to
> the metal.
Do you recall what particular product you used in this test?
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> Do you recall what particular product you used in
> this test?
>
At the time we tested the bedliner material, it was
some that NAPA was selling in gallon containers. Now
they along with others have the bedliner material in a
spray can, which is much easier to use. Put at least
two coats of it on the area or item, you want to
protect.
Michael Barkley
www.texomaev.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IMHO the 914 makes a great electric commuter. Good for one plus anything
you'd ever carry to work, etc.
Most Electric 914's I've seen have batteries where the 18gal tank used to be
in the front between the wheels, and also some in about half the rest of the
front space. In the rear, only the engine bay is usually used for batteries
since the motor is down low and doesn't take up near as much space as the
ICE+gear. Most of the rear trunk and some the front one is open for some
storage still!
Unless you are going to fully load it up on batteries, you will have plenty
for groceries, etc. If you DID load it up, you'd probably have an awfully
heavy and overloaded car! The car is a unibody, but without a roof, so if
you go crazy with weight you are likely going to have to seriously reinforce
the belly!
It will only seat 2 however...
(I've owned three 914's)
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: 15k DIY Porsche. 20k Installed.
I used to own a 914 and they are great fun however there is one serious
consideration to think about with them.
Remember unless the goal is a science experiment you probably want a
USEABLE electric car in the end. That means some storage space and maybe
more than two seats.
Alfter all is said and done you want a car that is functional. The only
saving grace for a gas powered 914 which has NO back or space at all
behind the front seats is the front and rear trunk (because the engine is
right behind the seats so you have both a big front and back trunk)
but when you add batteries in those trunks you no longer have that space.
If you want an electric go cart for fun then a 914 is a great electric
car.
If you want a functional car that you can even put a few grocery bags in
then an electric 914 is useless.
It will have NO storage space. And only one other seat.
It will seriously have NO Storage space. People really don't understand it
until they use one for a while. There are NO nooks and crannies behind the
seat - just a sheer firewall.
Something to keep in mind.
You would hate to spend all the time and money to make an electric only to
realize you don't have a very day to day functional vehicle when you are
finished.
You won't save gas or the environement if it is a car you really won't
drive.
On Tue, 22 May 2007 11:05 am, Michael Wendell wrote:
I was just looking at the www.electroautomotive.com site
that link is http://www.electroauto.com
...and their AC kit is around 15k with batteries. After all
the talk of what's available I'm begining to think that is a
bargain. If you are a miser it will go 150 miles on the flat.
i'm a lurker, still in the dreaming stage with this, but i didn't realize
their kits had that kind of range. i'm hoping to have the time to
seriously
begin tinkering this fall.
the 914 seems to be a somewhat popular conversion, and electro's kit may
have something to do with that.
while i like the 914, i've been wondering if the boxster might be a
better,
more modern equivalent. what does the list think, too heavy? i've seen
beat
up boxsters selling for reasonable prices on ebay, and i'd imagine that
parting out the ICE equipment would yield a nice payback.
thanks, i'll go back to lurking.
m.
Michael Wendell
Web/Graphics Guy
Speedgoat Bicycles
724.238.7181
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and
the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
maybe just sort by #vu for drag racing to see how
electrics compair to gas??
--- Jorg Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 100K and you're thinking you're going to set a
> record?? Think again.
>
> You can see the records by going to youtube,
> clicking on the videos
> tab on top, making sure the Browse on the left is
> set to "Most
> Viewed", and making sure Time is set to "All Tine".
>
> The winner, at 49 million views, is Evolution of
> Dance.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMH0bHeiRNg
>
> If you want to crack the top 10, it's pretty clear
> that you need
> music, dancing, or at least a laughing baby.
>
> On 5/21/07, Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > I barely got to it when I read this and you were
> already 76 over 100k.
> > Anyone know how many views would be a record for
> You Tube?
> >
> > Mike,
> > Anchorage, Ak.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Behalf Of Bill Dube
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 8:44 PM
> > > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > > Subject: 42 more to go!
> > >
> > >
> > > If 42 more people look at the KillaCycle Las
> Vegas "plasma" video, it
> > > will go over 100,000 views.
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dRpAZci9m0
> > > The Firebird video is over 94,000 views as well,
> so a few thousand
> > > more will push it over 100,000
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDHJNG2PngQ
> > >
> > > Bill Dube'
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Take
the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,
photos & more.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No! I was just asking so I sould get a perspective of where this video falls
in the whole scheme of YouTube videos.
49 million is a lot of views. But I look at it this way. If 49 Million people
view the "Evolution of Dance" they are not likely to accomplish anything
because of having viewed it. If 100,000 people view the Killacycle and get
interested in and ultimately build an electric vehicle then there is an actual
useful benefit to the video having been show.
Bill Dube already has his "record", which has nothing to do with YouTube.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jorg Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:27 am
Subject: Re: 42 more to go!
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu, Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 100K and you're thinking you're going to set a record?? Think again.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No! I was just asking so I sould get a perspective of where this video falls
in the whole scheme of YouTube videos.
49 million is a lot of views. But I look at it this way. If 49 Million people
view the "Evolution of Dance" they are not likely to accomplish anything
because of having viewed it. If 100,000 people view the Killacycle and get
interested in and ultimately build an electric vehicle then there is an actual
useful benefit to the video having been show.
Bill Dube already has his "record", which has nothing to do with YouTube.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jorg Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:27 am
Subject: Re: 42 more to go!
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu, Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 100K and you're thinking you're going to set a record?? Think again.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Posted by: "chuckkharrl" [EMAIL PROTECTED] chuckkharrl
Date: Sat May 12, 2007 10:06 pm ((PDT))
I work in the utility industry and there are power plants that
produce hydrogen as a by-product of the radiolytic decomposition of
water at ~ 2500 cubic feet per minute (1.3 billion cubic feet per
year per plant). These plants purchase pure oxygen to mix with all
of this hydrogen "waste" and run them through paladium to get an
exothermic reaction.....in short they burn hydrogen as waste. These
plants could be converted to harvest this hydrogen and perhaps
design them to produce even more hydrogen "waste". There are things
going on behind the scenes that the lay person does not know. Trust
in american ingenuity and don't fear the unknown.
The problem has NEVER been one of generation, it is one of storage and
total energy. Any school kid can hook up a battery in some salt water
and make Hydrogen. The thing is, they just want to keep the 'pump'
infrastructure going, rather than let people plug in. Hence all the
fuss about Hydrogen. Its stupid.
After the EV-1 and friends debacle, I am not trusting the big makers
to make the right choices.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
I will be in the Portland area the last few days of June. I'll
be driving up there with my mom to visit with my brother and his
family, who will be out from the DC area to visit friends. I
thought it would be fun for me to spend one of those evenings
watching White Zombie get in the hair of the gasser dudes (and
dudettes?). Checking the PIR schedule on their website, looks
like there will be NHRA late night drag racing June 29 and 30.
Is WZ likely to be there then?
Chuck
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
EVCN Larkspur 94939_1 Adopt-a-Charger sponsor (evchargernews.com)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When one is analyzing the power consumption of an EV, are we
considering what it actually uses (Volts x Amps per mile) at a given
speed or do we consider the actual power used in
recharging the pack? Obviously the latter is higher, but is a true
representation of the real cost.
Just wondering.
Got a ton more old stuff to post. Just been dealing with other stuff
this weekend. Will let you know when it is up.
Tom in Maine
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had created a shared Google calendar in hopes of making a single
place where one could find any upcoming EVent. But I couldn't find
enough EVents and info to make the calendar useful. Would anyone else
be interested in contributing to an EV calendar effort? I can add
contributors to the calendar if anyone would be willing to add EVents.
http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=ik3svk9pi4jlvmd4ej84ro5ea8%40group.calendar.google.com
Brandon Kruger
On 5/18/07, GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Has anyone thought to set up a google (or other) shared calender for
this list so all ev events worldwide can be more easily tracked?
With the volune of this list it is very hard to happen upon all the
right emails which announce events (many of which don't include location
such as the power dc one quoted below).
Also there should be an ev faq email that is resent once a week to the
list to give all the basic refrains and tech notes that are continually
rediscussed. It would be really helpful to avoid long trains of
discussion that are repeated and should be long and fully enclusive
since it will only go out once a week.
On Fri, 18 May 2007 2:37 pm, Jim Husted wrote:
> Hey Chip
>
>
> --- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> The final plans are being put in place for the Power
>> of DC race June
>> 2-3.
>>
>> Jim's building us a great motor to give away which
>> will be cool.
>
> I was thinking that maybe you ought to give the motor
> away to the slowest scootercross racer so that they
> won't be slowest next year. I then thought that it
> wouldn't help much to pay your bills though. I also
> thought that it would probably make this years
> scootercross the slowest in history LMAO 8^p
>
> Anyway I hope EVeryone takes lots of pics for us west
> enders so we get to partake in the EVent.
>
> Sorry I was unable to get Lawless' Juiced up motor
> finished in time to debut there (I know I suck) but I
> will make sure you get the raffle motor there in time.
> Again much love to Wayland who dumpster dove for this
> core (man, I got to get a pic of his asscrack hanging
> out on one of those dives 8^o) John has been a huge
> help in my ability to do this kinda thing so I just
> wanted to give some love back to the Princess for all
> he does for the community.
> I hope all have a great time who can attend, as for me
> I'll have to settle for pics 8^( well that and
> hopefully some fun stories 8^)
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Be
> a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
> knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You know what I meant Lee. This is playing with words.
Going from 98% efficient to 99% efficient is exactly half way
to 100% (no losses at all). To achieve that you must cut losses
in half, right?. If something has half as much losses I called it
twice as efficient. May be this is not accurate statement, but something
99% efficient has twice as little losses as 98% efficient.
Mathematically it's not 98%*2=196%. It's (sqrt)0.98 or 0.9899
(approx 0.99).
It's like saying if I connect 90% efficient motor to 90% efficient
generator, since total loses double (2 units instead of one) total
efficiency of the system now is half or 90%/2=45%.
Even first grader knows that it's 0.9*0.9=0.81 (81%)%, not 45%.
> But not "5 times higher efficiency", because that would imply going
> from 94% to 5x94% = 470% which is over unity and impossible.
C'mon, you know better :-) Same concept with 5 times more efficient
thing: in a first approximation it is:
new_eff = old_eff^(1/x) where x is "magnitude of improvement",
e.g. in case "5 times better" x=5, so 0.98^1/5=0.99596, or a thing
5 times more efficient than 98% is 99.596% efficient one, give or take.
You infinitely approach to 1 (100%) but never get there.
No marketing 470%, so I'd be disqualified from any marketing dept.
in a heart beat as incapable cheater :-)
Victor
Lee Hart wrote:
But that's not how I was taught to do it. You can say "5 times lower
losses", because the power lost was indeed reduced by 5:1. But not "5
times higher efficiency", because that would imply going from 94% to
5x94% = 470% which is over unity and impossible.
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All of these suggestions will work, but the -best- you can get your
hands on is probably marine grade epoxy paint.
I'd suggest coal tar epoxy paint, but the darn stuff never really
dries. Shrugs off hazardous materials real well though :)
Both of which are very expensive and probably not something you'd need
to use for this! The advantage though is that both are somewhat
flexible, so flex would have less of a chance of affecting the
coating.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Gocze wrote:
> When one is analyzing the power consumption of an EV, are we
> considering what it actually uses (Volts x Amps per mile) at a given
> speed or do we consider the actual power used in
> recharging the pack? Obviously the latter is higher, but is a true
> representation of the real cost.
It depends what one is interested in. The Wh/mi consumed from the
battery reflects the energy efficiency of the vehicle, and allows
comparison to other vehicles for the prupose of determining if the
vehicle is performing as expected or not.
The Wh/mi ($/mi) from the wall reflects the energy cost of oeprating the
vehicle, and so allows cost comparisons with other vehicles, but is less
useful for determining if the vehicle is operating efficiently or not
since this figure includes the charge efficiency of the batteries, the
efficiency of the charger, etc., and will vary depending on the
particular batteries and charger in use.
Cheers,
Roger.
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I have been lurking for awhile and I too am considering an electric
vehicle. If the 914 is not the best convert then what is? I am not
a mechanic, so a kit sounds good to me!!!! Dan Whitley
I used to own a 914 and they are great fun however there is one
serious consideration to think about with them.
Remember unless the goal is a science experiment you probably want a
USEABLE electric car in the end. That means some storage space and
maybe more than two seats.
Alfter all is said and done you want a car that is functional. The
only saving grace for a gas powered 914 which has NO back or space at
all behind the front seats is the front and rear trunk (because the
engine is right behind the seats so you have both a big front and
back trunk)
but when you add batteries in those trunks you no longer have that
space.
If you want an electric go cart for fun then a 914 is a great
electric car.
If you want a functional car that you can even put a few grocery bags
in then an electric 914 is useless.
It will have NO storage space. And only one other seat.
It will seriously have NO Storage space. People really don't
understand it until they use one for a while. There are NO nooks and
crannies behind the seat - just a sheer firewall.
Something to keep in mind.
You would hate to spend all the time and money to make an electric
only to realize you don't have a very day to day functional vehicle
when you are finished.
You won't save gas or the environement if it is a car you really
won't drive.
On Tue, 22 May 2007 11:05 am, Michael Wendell wrote:
I was just looking at the www.electroautomotive.com site
that link is http://www.electroauto.com
...and their AC kit is around 15k with batteries. After all
the talk of what's available I'm begining to think that is a
bargain. If you are a miser it will go 150 miles on the flat.
i'm a lurker, still in the dreaming stage with this, but i didn't
realize
their kits had that kind of range. i'm hoping to have the time to
seriously
begin tinkering this fall.
the 914 seems to be a somewhat popular conversion, and electro's
kit may
have something to do with that.
while i like the 914, i've been wondering if the boxster might be a
better,
more modern equivalent. what does the list think, too heavy? i've
seen beat
up boxsters selling for reasonable prices on ebay, and i'd imagine
that
parting out the ICE equipment would yield a nice payback.
thanks, i'll go back to lurking.
m.
Michael Wendell
Web/Graphics Guy
Speedgoat Bicycles
724.238.7181
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Guys,
I never give up a chance to say that I think the
Gen 5 Civic sedan is best for converting:
1) 23-25,000 per month sold: lots of spare parts!
2) Can hold 9 batts. in front, 9 in back: good weight
distribution.
3) Strong frame: 850 lbs. cargo until you hit GVWR.
(see #2).
4) Airbags. And that's _before_ I get in the car.
5) Low center of gravity: safe for lead.
6) Need to upgrade the suspension now? No problem.
Tuners have been doing it for almost as long as EVers
with this model.
I don't begrudge others their opinion on "which is
best", but lemme' tell ya': It worked 'fer me!
peace,
--- Dan Whitley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have been lurking for awhile and I too am
> considering an electric
> vehicle. If the 914 is not the best convert then
> what is? I am not
> a mechanic, so a kit sounds good to me!!!! Dan
> Whitley
>
>
>
>
> I used to own a 914 and they are great fun however
> there is one
> serious consideration to think about with them.
>
> Remember unless the goal is a science experiment you
> probably want a
> USEABLE electric car in the end. That means some
> storage space and
> maybe more than two seats.
>
> Alfter all is said and done you want a car that is
> functional. The
> only saving grace for a gas powered 914 which has NO
> back or space at
> all behind the front seats is the front and rear
> trunk (because the
> engine is right behind the seats so you have both a
> big front and
> back trunk)
> but when you add batteries in those trunks you no
> longer have that
> space.
>
> If you want an electric go cart for fun then a 914
> is a great
> electric car.
>
> If you want a functional car that you can even put a
> few grocery bags
> in then an electric 914 is useless.
>
> It will have NO storage space. And only one other
> seat.
>
> It will seriously have NO Storage space. People
> really don't
> understand it until they use one for a while. There
> are NO nooks and
> crannies behind the seat - just a sheer firewall.
> Something to keep in mind.
>
> You would hate to spend all the time and money to
> make an electric
> only to realize you don't have a very day to day
> functional vehicle
> when you are finished.
>
> You won't save gas or the environement if it is a
> car you really
> won't drive.
>
> On Tue, 22 May 2007 11:05 am, Michael Wendell wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >> I was just looking at the
> www.electroautomotive.com site
> >>
> >
> > that link is http://www.electroauto.com
> >
> >
> >> ...and their AC kit is around 15k with
> batteries. After all
> >> the talk of what's available I'm begining to
> think that is a
> >> bargain. If you are a miser it will go 150 miles
> on the flat.
> >>
> >
> > i'm a lurker, still in the dreaming stage with
> this, but i didn't
> > realize
> > their kits had that kind of range. i'm hoping to
> have the time to
> > seriously
> > begin tinkering this fall.
> >
> > the 914 seems to be a somewhat popular conversion,
> and electro's
> > kit may
> > have something to do with that.
> >
> > while i like the 914, i've been wondering if the
> boxster might be a
> > better,
> > more modern equivalent. what does the list think,
> too heavy? i've
> > seen beat
> > up boxsters selling for reasonable prices on ebay,
> and i'd imagine
> > that
> > parting out the ICE equipment would yield a nice
> payback.
> >
> > thanks, i'll go back to lurking.
> >
> > m.
> >
> > Michael Wendell
> > Web/Graphics Guy
> > Speedgoat Bicycles
> >
> > 724.238.7181
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dan,
There is not one answer as to what is the best conversion to an electric
vehicle. You have to consider your needs, preferences, and your driving
habits. A 914 is great for some, others like a S10 size pickup truck,
and the list goes on from small to large, DC or AC motor, and power
options such as power steering, power brakes, air-conditioning. A kit
is a great way to get most of the parts together at once, and have some
items, like a transmission adapter and hub out of the way. Buying a
used EV is Even better than a kit because sometimes the price is right,
it is completed, and the owner may be able to give you some tips etc...A
used EV may only need new batteries, or a more powerful controller to
make it run better.
Any way you go, make sure it is a vehicle that you like, so you have a
good chance of completing it, and you will enjoy it when it is done.
Look at the EV Photo Album and see what you like. Are there several of
them? Any kits used? Are the parts easy to find? Is the range and
speed good for what I need? Do they run on flat / hilly terrain like I
need?
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dan Whitley
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 3:30 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Best Conversion Vehicle
I have been lurking for awhile and I too am considering an electric
vehicle. If the 914 is not the best convert then what is? I am not
a mechanic, so a kit sounds good to me!!!! Dan Whitley
I used to own a 914 and they are great fun however there is one
serious consideration to think about with them.
Remember unless the goal is a science experiment you probably want a
USEABLE electric car in the end. That means some storage space and
maybe more than two seats.
Alfter all is said and done you want a car that is functional. The
only saving grace for a gas powered 914 which has NO back or space at
all behind the front seats is the front and rear trunk (because the
engine is right behind the seats so you have both a big front and
back trunk)
but when you add batteries in those trunks you no longer have that
space.
If you want an electric go cart for fun then a 914 is a great
electric car.
If you want a functional car that you can even put a few grocery bags
in then an electric 914 is useless.
It will have NO storage space. And only one other seat.
It will seriously have NO Storage space. People really don't
understand it until they use one for a while. There are NO nooks and
crannies behind the seat - just a sheer firewall.
Something to keep in mind.
You would hate to spend all the time and money to make an electric
only to realize you don't have a very day to day functional vehicle
when you are finished.
You won't save gas or the environement if it is a car you really
won't drive.
On Tue, 22 May 2007 11:05 am, Michael Wendell wrote:
>
>
>> I was just looking at the www.electroautomotive.com site
>>
>
> that link is http://www.electroauto.com
>
>
>> ...and their AC kit is around 15k with batteries. After all
>> the talk of what's available I'm begining to think that is a
>> bargain. If you are a miser it will go 150 miles on the flat.
>>
>
> i'm a lurker, still in the dreaming stage with this, but i didn't
> realize
> their kits had that kind of range. i'm hoping to have the time to
> seriously
> begin tinkering this fall.
>
> the 914 seems to be a somewhat popular conversion, and electro's
> kit may
> have something to do with that.
>
> while i like the 914, i've been wondering if the boxster might be a
> better,
> more modern equivalent. what does the list think, too heavy? i've
> seen beat
> up boxsters selling for reasonable prices on ebay, and i'd imagine
> that
> parting out the ICE equipment would yield a nice payback.
>
> thanks, i'll go back to lurking.
>
> m.
>
> Michael Wendell
> Web/Graphics Guy
> Speedgoat Bicycles
>
> 724.238.7181
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting concept, Lee. You mention a freewheel diode. Is a
freewheel still necessary in this setup? If I'm understanding your
description correctly, the field winding will be sending its current
either through the armature winding, or through the MOSFET to ground,
and the armatue will always be getting its current from either the
battery (through the field winding) or from the capacitors. If a
freewheel diode is necessary, then why, and where does it go?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
Lee Hart wrote:
Marty Hewes wrote:
That would be a very cool controller. Imagine being able to have 2
72 volt strings of 6 volt GC batteries in parallel to provide lotsa
acceleration current without damaging the batteries, and then having
the controller be able to boost the voltage for higher speeds. I
suppose someone here has done a setup that does series parallel
switching of battery strings to achieve this?
The 1974 International Rectifier SCR Applications Handbook describes a
controller of this type. They ran a standard 72v series traction motor
from a single 12v battery. An SCR controller was used, configured as a
boost converter. The motor's field winding was the boost inductor. The
capacitors normally present at the controller input were across the
motor armature. As a result, input ripple current was high, but motor
ripple current was very low.
The efficiency was low (about 70%) because the SCR's 1.5v drop and the
freewheel diode's 1v drop were over 20% of the supply voltage. But it
happily converted 12v at 100a into 72v at 12a. Interestingly, the
series motor behaved almost exactly the same as it would with a
conventional 72v pack and buck converter style controller. But since
you could boost the motor voltage considerably above pack voltage, it
allowed higher torques at higher speeds than a conventional controller.
Such a controller might be promising with today's low drop MOSFETs and
schottky diodes.
--- End Message ---
