EV Digest 6815
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Raptor 600 problem
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: How regen works
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: www.DriveCongress.com
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: www.DriveCongress.com
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: How regen works
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: www.DriveCongress.com
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Lancia Scorpion EV site finally up
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Heidi on Myers Motors website!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Fast and Eff!!! Re: White Zombie gets to
'test'=?iso-8859-1?B?CWRyaXZlIA==?= Lithium!
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by "Harry Houck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Heidi on Myers Motors website!
by David Wilker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Heidi on Myers Motors website!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Video: Hybrid Technologies / Kokam
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: www.DriveCongress.com
by "midiguy732" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Raptor 600 problem
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Raptor 600 problem
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Raptor 600 problem
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
That inductive throttle sensor seems problematic. Do they have any way to
verify proper range? Can you put a scope or frequency counter on it?
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: Raptor 600 problem
Thanks for the help everyone. I think I have it
working better now. I've still got some things that
need tweaking, but yesterday I was able to get plenty
of power out of it. I had it up to about 400 amps,
which is about what I was looking for.
It still doesn't seem to be working like it's supposed
to. The first 1/2" or 1" of pedal travel doesn't do
anything, and then it kicks in. Not to mention, it
says in the manual that 1/2" of travel is about
right... I have mine going well over an inch, maybe
two. I'm going to try the calibration for max throttle
again later today and see what it does. I'll also do
it in the dark, so I can see flickers from the light.
Thanks again for the help.
Andrew
____________________________________________________________________________________Boardwalk
for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for
today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well someone I know used to work for Sanden, and he says that at max thermal
loads it can peak over 12hp at high RPMs. Noticing how low ICE engines can
drop when you lock power steering at the end of it's travel makes me think
that power steering can also suck down considerable power.
Seems like the best trick is to just put a small controller with current
limit on the accessory motor. When it drains too much current it will slow
the motor and thus the load will decrease.
For me, I'd probably put 2 smaller accessory motors. In fact, for A/C I'd
probably just use a window unit hermetic compressor running off of an
inverter. With a pack voltage of 100-200 volts it would be pretty easy to
drive a small compressor. You can do it with a simple "modified sine wave"
(step wave) setup with 4 MOSFETs or better yet, drive them faster (much) and
make a Class-D amplifier that makes a pure sine.
It'd be more efficient to use a 3-phase compressor, but I haven't seen too
many that are small.
You can then get on ebay and by a cheap VFD. Most of them will run on DC
quite happily!
BTW, this is effectively how the Prius A/C works, albeit with a 600 volt
system.
And if you gotta have power steering it seems like it'd be worth ponying up
for an electric system. Running that pump all the time seems like a waste.
Maybe you could put a controller on it, such that it runs the pump at a
speed inverse to vehicle speed. So as you speed up, the pump slows and then
stops. You get max RPM when the EV is parking, etc., but it diminishes at
highway speed to nothing. Many high-end cars have this type of system
already, but it's usually done hydraulically with a electrically controlled
metering valve that allows the hydraulic circuit to bypass.
You could also put a switch on it so when you steering wheel has been nearly
straight for a short period of time at zero vehicle speed, it cuts the
motor. This way when you are sitting at a light, that pump isn't running
continuously, but if parking your wheel will be moving all over so it will
keep running.
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
So, does anyone have any figures on how much power it actually takes to
drive A/C and/or power steering?
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is 4QD's site name?
(Always good practice to keep the site url in the thread if people are
still talking about it.)
On Fri, 25 May 2007 12:21 pm, (-Phil-) wrote:
There are all kinds of tricks. Separate supplies, Charge pumps,
transformers, etc.
There are a lot of "cool tricks" explained on 4QD's site....
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, you have to put in 1 gallon of gas for every 116 miles you drive your
RAV 4 EV. That bites....
Sorry, but gas mileage has nothing to do with EV's.
Great idea, but wrong list :-)
From: Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: RAV4 EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, EV Discussion
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: www.DriveCongress.com
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 09:15:40 -0700
This is the auto industries grassroots campaign to derail proposed new CAFE
standards. Go and leave a proCAFE message instead. Those idiots probably
don't proof them all (any more than they actually get read at the receiving
end). It may do no good, but I sure felt better leaving my note on their BS
website.
Here's my message:
I currently drive a Toyota RAV4 EV (electric vehicle).
It's EPA rated at 116 miles per gallon.
Now, Toyota stands with American automakers in their misguided fight to
derail attempts to improve our transportation energy situation.
Back in 1993, a company called Unique Mobility (now UQM on the ticker)
converted a HumVee to diesel-electric hybrid. This 8 ton vehicle could
travel 25 miles EV only, and with the engine running, got 30mpg.
Andy Frank/UC Davis, converted a Chevy Suburban to hybrid and it got 35mpg.
If these people (not automakers) can get this type of mileage performance
out of these vehicles, obviously the carmakers are lying and/or dragging
their feet.
Please support any and all efforts to strengthen CAFE standards and
increase
minimum mileage requirements for US vehicles.
National security should trump automakers' bottom line- but will it?
Sincerely,
J. Marvin Campbell
--
MarvyMarv
aka
Mo'Nilla
"The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long
before the world runs out of oil."
- Sheikh Zaki Yamani
_________________________________________________________________
Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now.
Its free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_MAY07
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
He's talking about the GGE or Gallon of Gasoline Equivalent.
That means if gasoline costs $3 per gallon, the RAV4 EV will get 116 miles on
$3 of electricity.
Of course the GGE only gets better as the price of gas goes up :-) That has
EVerything to do with EV's :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, May 25, 2007 11:39 am
Subject: RE: www.DriveCongress.com
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Wow, you have to put in 1 gallon of gas for every 116 miles you
> drive your
> RAV 4 EV. That bites....
>
> Sorry, but gas mileage has nothing to do with EV's.
>
> Great idea, but wrong list :-)
>
>
> >From: Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: RAV4 EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, EV Discussion
> ><ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >Subject: www.DriveCongress.com
> >Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 09:15:40 -0700
> >
> >This is the auto industries grassroots campaign to derail
> proposed new CAFE
> >standards. Go and leave a proCAFE message instead. Those idiots
> probably>don't proof them all (any more than they actually get
> read at the receiving
> >end). It may do no good, but I sure felt better leaving my note
> on their BS
> >website.
> >
> >Here's my message:
> >
> >I currently drive a Toyota RAV4 EV (electric vehicle).
> >It's EPA rated at 116 miles per gallon.
> >Now, Toyota stands with American automakers in their misguided
> fight to
> >derail attempts to improve our transportation energy situation.
> >Back in 1993, a company called Unique Mobility (now UQM on the
> ticker)>converted a HumVee to diesel-electric hybrid. This 8 ton
> vehicle could
> >travel 25 miles EV only, and with the engine running, got 30mpg.
> >Andy Frank/UC Davis, converted a Chevy Suburban to hybrid and it
> got 35mpg.
> >If these people (not automakers) can get this type of mileage
> performance>out of these vehicles, obviously the carmakers are
> lying and/or dragging
> >their feet.
> >Please support any and all efforts to strengthen CAFE standards
> and
> >increase
> >minimum mileage requirements for US vehicles.
> >National security should trump automakers' bottom line- but will it?
> >Sincerely,
> >J. Marvin Campbell
> >
> >
> >--
> >MarvyMarv
> >aka
> >Mo'Nilla
> >
> >
> >"The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age
> will end long
> >before the world runs out of oil."
> >- Sheikh Zaki Yamani
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im
> Initiative now.
> Its free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_MAY07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the last 2 weeks, I think I have spewed it like 3 times.... I guess I
thought everyone would know it by now!
http://4qd.co.uk/faq/index.html
Here is a MUST-READ as far as I am concerned if you want to learn this
stuff:
http://www.4qdtec.com/pwm-01.html
Look for "Hi-side gate drive" in the above link to see one of the tricks
used to generate the voltage needed to keep a N-type MOSFET turned on for
the high-side drive.
If you find his stuff interesting he has a "member's only" area with details
of his current controllers, including stuff like synchronous rectification.
I think it costs about $20. Worth it!
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: How regen works
What is 4QD's site name?
(Always good practice to keep the site url in the thread if people are
still talking about it.)
On Fri, 25 May 2007 12:21 pm, (-Phil-) wrote:
There are all kinds of tricks. Separate supplies, Charge pumps,
transformers, etc.
There are a lot of "cool tricks" explained on 4QD's site....
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and
the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon> Wow, you have to put in 1 gallon of gas for every 116 miles you
damon> drive your RAV 4 EV. That bites....
damon> Sorry, but gas mileage has nothing to do with EV's.
damon> Great idea, but wrong list :-)
Well maybe, but the only figure the unwashed masses understand is MPG. I
have no idea how the EPA arrived at 116 MPG, but it's a whole lot higher
number than 27 MPG (isn't that still the current CAFE "standard"?).
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Tony so very much for the kind words. It was an honor to help out a
fellow EVer. Nice web presentation also. We will link to it once our new web
site is up.
Roderick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Furr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "EV" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:44 AM
Subject: Lancia Scorpion EV site finally up
Greetings all-
The site for my Lancia Scorpion Elettrico is finally ready for prime-
time. You can find it here:
www.plugzen.com
After finally making it to a SEVA meeting last month, I had new found
inspiration to get this thing completed. It includes a journal that I try
to update regularly and photo galleries I will continue to expand
(especially with Gasless on Greenwood picks). I could also use some help
filling out the links section if there are good EV info sources I've
undoubtedly missed. There's also an RSS feed for those of you into the
automated info thing.
Please check it out and let me know what you think...and send it along to
anyone else you think might be interested.
-t
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database:
269.7.7/816 - Release Date: 5/23/2007 3:59 PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey!
Just noticed that Heidi and Tweety is featured on the Myers Motors
website. Just go to www.myersmotors.com and click on the "I love my
NmG" tab then click the "Fun Practicality" tab. Or just go here:
http://www.myersmotors.com/story_funpracticality.html
Ken
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Such an inverter would not be as complicated as the main motor
controller due to the reduced size, but complicated nonetheless.
Actually I take that back, technically it's more complicated due to the
topology, but with the much lower current the output stage is going to
be cheaper and easier to build even though it's AC and thus must have 4
transistors at least instead of one.
Some of the newer home AC units use a three-phase inverter arrangement
and either a sensorless 3-phase BLDC or ACIM. Fairchild Semiconductor
carries a line of 6-pack IGBT modules with driver circuitry for this
application. I've used them just to play with. They work ok, and they
are sized for the 2 to 5 kW region - exactly right for AC units. You
can also get motor control processors pre-programmed for this purpose.
Freescale (Motorola) has a single-chip ACIM control IC that would
be really nice to use for this. It would not be so good for traction
applications but for an AC system, the inverter could be very simple
and have a very low design time required.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's Leeson 180V 6.7A DC motor working straight off 120V pack.
It's overkill to run A/C compressor, at least this small Honda one.
Today I'd do this differently.
Victor
Mark Ward wrote:
Here is a link to an EV with a DC motor like the one I originally was going to use on my project
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/ac1.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Hump, John and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Fast and Eff!!! Re: White Zombie gets to
'test' drive Lithium!
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 8:50:59 -0600
> So, doing the math....
>
> 165Wh per mile.
>
> 38 KWh per gallon_energy.
>
>38000/165 = 230 mpg_energy.
>
> $.10 per KWh.
> $3.10 per gal.
> == 31kWh per gal_$$
>
>31000/165 = 187.87 mpg_$$
>
>
>I'm not a mathemetician. I hope I didn't screw it too bad.
>I'm sure it will be corrected if I did. ;-)
>
>I will take any corrections as a learning experience, maybe
>improve myself 5% while I'm at it ;-)
Sounds good to me. The problem is very little is
stable with wthr/mile changing with speeds, gas, electric
costs, sources, ect, so the best you can do is give ranges.
As they say, YMMV!!
I got about 100wthrs/mile so at $.10kwhr here in
Tampa, it is about 100miles/$1 or $.01/mile electric/fuel
costs which at the present gas cost of $3.10 or so, gives
300mpg cost wise. I'll use it so it's easy to convert to
other EV's.
Energy wise is tricky because electric source can
be from 30% to 60% for combustion E plants to almost 100%
eff from hydro, wind, ect, depending on how you count it. At
100wthrs/mile with 100% electric source eff, I'd get 400mpg.
You all can figure yours from that. For a 30% eff old coal,
oil plant it's about 150mpg. I mostly charge from 2 combined
gas turbine, steam from it's waste exhaust heat which hits
about 60% eff or about 250 mpg equivilent.
Many probably run from 35-40% eff coal plants, as
I do sometimes when not on Gas Turbines or nuke, which makes
it about 200mpg equivilent at 100wthrs/mile. Though I
sometimes run on a combined cycle coal plant hiting 60% eff,
the TECO Polk Plant if you are interested.
And even that can be tricky because in real life,
wthrs/mile calculated for my Freedom EV run from
55wthrs/mile at 30-40 mph to 130wthrs/mile at 70 mph. YMMV
;^D
A conversion that gets about 100wthrs/mile is John
Bryan's Karman Ghia so with work, it's possible.
>
>
>--
>Stay Charged!
>Hump
>I-5, Blossvale NY
>
>
>
>
] On Behalf Of John
>> Wayland Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 10:33 AM
>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: Re: Fast and Eff!!! Re: White Zombie gets to
>> 'test' drive Lithium!
>>
>> Hello to All,
>>
>>>--- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>You forgot an important number, it took only
>>>>140-150
>>>>wthr/mile for it's trip!! Not bad for an EV
>>>>breathing down
>>>>the 11 sec 1/4 mile bracket!!
>>>>
>>
>> Yes, I agree that it's pretty good efficiency for such a
>> powerful car, but remember the drive was at slower speeds
>> through a 35 mph posted area
>> and a 45 mph posted area. It's easier to get good numbers
>> driving slower. As you know, whrs per mile go up at
>> highway speeds as aero drag comes into play, and highway
>> speeds are usually the way whrs per mile are figured.
Yes, so true. You also had racing tires which can eat
power.
But with a little work, the 1200's aero could be
improved and may be a way for higher terminal speeds, lower
1/4 mile times.
>>
>> White Zombie's twin 'Blue Meanie' has the losses of a
>> tranny to deal with, but weighing less at 2340 lbs. and
>> with its narrow LRR tires pumped up to 50 psi, it gets
>> about 165 whrs per mile at a steady 60 mph.
That's dam good!! Too bad the smallest cars now are
2800lbs and higher.
>> White Zombie has no tranny losses, but it does weighs 240
>> lbs. more and has those not-so-range friendly fat rear
>> tires plus the drag of a Ford 9
>> inch differential's inefficient (but very robust) offset
>> pinion. I'd guess that with the rear tires pumped up to
>> 35 psi (drag racing psi is lowered to ~ 16) White Zombie
>> will probably consume 180-190 whrs per mile at 5
Still not bad for a racing car/EV. Better than 95%
on this list I'd bet. Keep up the great work John.
Jerry Dycus
>
--- End Message ---
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Not complicated, as it really doesn't have to have a buck/boost stage. Just
some timed switching and only at 120hz. Big dead-band. Not even a big
concern to watch the gate drive currents at that speed.
An easy way would be to take an off-the-shelf 12v to 120v inverter and
bypass the DC boost stage. Just use the output switching stage. They are
dirt cheap nowadays.
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
Such an inverter would not be as complicated as the main motor
controller due to the reduced size, but complicated nonetheless.
Actually I take that back, technically it's more complicated due to the
topology, but with the much lower current the output stage is going to
be cheaper and easier to build even though it's AC and thus must have 4
transistors at least instead of one.
Some of the newer home AC units use a three-phase inverter arrangement
and either a sensorless 3-phase BLDC or ACIM. Fairchild Semiconductor
carries a line of 6-pack IGBT modules with driver circuitry for this
application. I've used them just to play with. They work ok, and they
are sized for the 2 to 5 kW region - exactly right for AC units. You
can also get motor control processors pre-programmed for this purpose.
Freescale (Motorola) has a single-chip ACIM control IC that would
be really nice to use for this. It would not be so good for traction
applications but for an AC system, the inverter could be very simple
and have a very low design time required.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great idea, but some people, like those with allergies or athsma really
suffer from hot humid air. The A/C not only cools, but also lowers humidity
and takes out a lot of allergens with the condensate.
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harry Houck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
What a waste of power! The only object that needs cooling in a car is the
human. I've built a dozen coolers over the last few years that look a lot
like these: http://www.freshairsystems.com/cool.htm. Here's the recipe: 12v
bilge pump in an ice chest, 3/8" distribution and 1/4" vinyl drip irrigation
tubing sewn to the back of a seat cushion and a few fittings. A frozen 2
liter pop bottle will last about two hours in the hottest weather. I haven't
calculated the BTU absorption of 2 liters of frozen water, but it isn't
20,000! Low pressure, low tech, great results. Cool the body not the entire
interior of the car!
On 5/25/2007 at 11:57 AM, Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
People have said 20,000 BTU for a car. Depends on the size, make, and
model of car I'm sure. Some cars are twice as big as others for starters.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, does anyone have any figures on how much power it actually takes
to drive A/C and/or power steering?
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I teach Electronics at Tech School, and I use Electric Cars as a teaching tool
to get the students interested in practical applications of electronics, so
Tweety and her friends (T-Zero, Tango, Tesla et al) are so great to see,
beating Vipers and Porches, oh my.
By the way, what kind of car is the gas version of Tweety? The were used in an
Austin Powers movie, I do believe.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
---- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey!
Just noticed that Heidi and Tweety is featured on the Myers Motors
website. Just go to www.myersmotors.com and click on the "I love my
NmG" tab then click the "Fun Practicality" tab. Or just go here:
http://www.myersmotors.com/story_funpracticality.html
Ken
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank You! I really like to hear that our next generation is being
taught new ways of doing things!
Actually, there is not a gas version of Tweety, or NmG (unless someone
has converted one on their own). The cars seen in the Austin Powers
movie, "Gold Member" were Sparrows. The Sparrow began in 2000 and was
manufactured by Corbin Motors. Myers Motors bought the business in
2004. Myers made several upgrades and changed the name to NmG (No More
Gas) and began selling them in 2005. The Sparrow and NmG has been
electric from the start and no gas version was ever made.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: David Wilker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Fri, 25 May 2007 4:02 pm
Subject: Re: Heidi on Myers Motors website!
I teach Electronics at Tech School, and I use Electric Cars as a
teaching tool
to get the students interested in practical applications of
electronics, so
Tweety and her friends (T-Zero, Tango, Tesla et al) are so great to
see, beating
Vipers and Porches, oh my.
By the way, what kind of car is the gas version of Tweety? The were
used in an
Austin Powers movie, I do believe.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
---- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey!
Just noticed that Heidi and Tweety is featured on the Myers Motors
website. Just go to www.myersmotors.com and click on the "I love my
NmG" tab then click the "Fun Practicality" tab. Or just go here:
http://www.myersmotors.com/story_funpracticality.html
Ken
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was surprised to see those particular batteries being used:
http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=909809245
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Please support any and all efforts to strengthen CAFE standards and
> increase minimum mileage requirements for US vehicles.
An increase in CAFÉ standards will have minimal effect on mileage.
There will be vast time ranges as in the past for compliance, and as is
the current trend in the industry the big three who make margin on their
trucks will simply sell cars at or close to cost to meet whatever
virtual figure is decided upon.
Having said that, 35 mpg is not impressive. It's hilarious.
MY 1993 FWD Lincoln continental does 35 on a regular basis, and if I
romp the throttle I can break CV joints on a whim (I supercharged the
car). My 1999 Crown Victoria does 30 easily, and that's not a light
car. My 1993 F350 crewcab, at 6997lbs unloaded, gets 17, almost double
what the window sticker said back when I bought it.
The magic is in the efi computer code / data tables - it's not Ford's.
Regards,
Frederic
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's still a voltage issue. I mean even if you have a 10x 12v batts,
that could be 138V to 105V. The motor may not operate ideally (or at
all) though that entire range. Plenty of packs have a nominal value
further from 120V too.
Danny
(-Phil-) wrote:
Not complicated, as it really doesn't have to have a buck/boost
stage. Just some timed switching and only at 120hz. Big dead-band.
Not even a big concern to watch the gate drive currents at that speed.
An easy way would be to take an off-the-shelf 12v to 120v inverter and
bypass the DC boost stage. Just use the output switching stage. They
are dirt cheap nowadays.
-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
Such an inverter would not be as complicated as the main motor
controller due to the reduced size, but complicated nonetheless.
Actually I take that back, technically it's more complicated due to the
topology, but with the much lower current the output stage is going to
be cheaper and easier to build even though it's AC and thus must have 4
transistors at least instead of one.
Some of the newer home AC units use a three-phase inverter arrangement
and either a sensorless 3-phase BLDC or ACIM. Fairchild Semiconductor
carries a line of 6-pack IGBT modules with driver circuitry for this
application. I've used them just to play with. They work ok, and they
are sized for the 2 to 5 kW region - exactly right for AC units. You
can also get motor control processors pre-programmed for this purpose.
Freescale (Motorola) has a single-chip ACIM control IC that would
be really nice to use for this. It would not be so good for traction
applications but for an AC system, the inverter could be very simple
and have a very low design time required.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now if you could use deceleration energy off of the accessory shaft to
compress a quantity of R-134 gas back into liquid form to be metered out as
needed later for the air, you might not need anything else for around town
driving, for those of us not running regen. Feasible anyone?
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
There's still a voltage issue. I mean even if you have a 10x 12v batts,
that could be 138V to 105V. The motor may not operate ideally (or at all)
though that entire range. Plenty of packs have a nominal value further
from 120V too.
Danny
(-Phil-) wrote:
Not complicated, as it really doesn't have to have a buck/boost stage.
Just some timed switching and only at 120hz. Big dead-band. Not even a
big concern to watch the gate drive currents at that speed.
An easy way would be to take an off-the-shelf 12v to 120v inverter and
bypass the DC boost stage. Just use the output switching stage. They
are dirt cheap nowadays.
-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
Such an inverter would not be as complicated as the main motor
controller due to the reduced size, but complicated nonetheless.
Actually I take that back, technically it's more complicated due to the
topology, but with the much lower current the output stage is going to
be cheaper and easier to build even though it's AC and thus must have 4
transistors at least instead of one.
Some of the newer home AC units use a three-phase inverter arrangement
and either a sensorless 3-phase BLDC or ACIM. Fairchild Semiconductor
carries a line of 6-pack IGBT modules with driver circuitry for this
application. I've used them just to play with. They work ok, and they
are sized for the 2 to 5 kW region - exactly right for AC units. You
can also get motor control processors pre-programmed for this purpose.
Freescale (Motorola) has a single-chip ACIM control IC that would
be really nice to use for this. It would not be so good for traction
applications but for an AC system, the inverter could be very simple
and have a very low design time required.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is not problematic. I've been using mine just fine
for 3.5 years now.
It does give interference to the radio, but compare
that with the fact that it won't wear out like a
potbox will.
He's figured out that the slug just wasn't seated
deeply inside the coil.
--- "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That inductive throttle sensor seems problematic.
> Do they have any way to
> verify proper range? Can you put a scope or
> frequency counter on it?
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 7:52 AM
> Subject: Re: Raptor 600 problem
>
>
> > Thanks for the help everyone. I think I have it
> > working better now. I've still got some things
> that
> > need tweaking, but yesterday I was able to get
> plenty
> > of power out of it. I had it up to about 400 amps,
> > which is about what I was looking for.
> >
> > It still doesn't seem to be working like it's
> supposed
> > to. The first 1/2" or 1" of pedal travel doesn't
> do
> > anything, and then it kicks in. Not to mention, it
> > says in the manual that 1/2" of travel is about
> > right... I have mine going well over an inch,
> maybe
> > two. I'm going to try the calibration for max
> throttle
> > again later today and see what it does. I'll also
> do
> > it in the dark, so I can see flickers from the
> light.
> >
> > Thanks again for the help.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Boardwalk
>
> > for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now
> (it's updated for
> > today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
> >
>
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
> >
> >
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm betting money that the calibration will address
the last part of it.
--- "Andrew A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks for the help everyone. I think I have it
> working better now. I've still got some things that
> need tweaking, but yesterday I was able to get
> plenty
> of power out of it. I had it up to about 400 amps,
> which is about what I was looking for.
>
> It still doesn't seem to be working like it's
> supposed
> to. The first 1/2" or 1" of pedal travel doesn't do
> anything, and then it kicks in. Not to mention, it
> says in the manual that 1/2" of travel is about
> right... I have mine going well over an inch, maybe
> two. I'm going to try the calibration for max
> throttle
> again later today and see what it does. I'll also do
> it in the dark, so I can see flickers from the
> light.
>
> Thanks again for the help.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Boardwalk
> for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now
> (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
>
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
>
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It'll run, yes maybe not ideally, but anything at least 105v will have no
trouble. Hermetic compressors are pretty robust and since they are liquid
cooled, a motor running a little hot won't be ideal, but it won't do any
damage either.
With the right software you can also use compressor inductance as a boost,
just by hitting the MOSFETs right. (Just like we have been talking about
for regen)
If it's 3-phase, then even better!
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
There's still a voltage issue. I mean even if you have a 10x 12v batts,
that could be 138V to 105V. The motor may not operate ideally (or at all)
though that entire range. Plenty of packs have a nominal value further
from 120V too.
Danny
(-Phil-) wrote:
Not complicated, as it really doesn't have to have a buck/boost stage.
Just some timed switching and only at 120hz. Big dead-band. Not even a
big concern to watch the gate drive currents at that speed.
An easy way would be to take an off-the-shelf 12v to 120v inverter and
bypass the DC boost stage. Just use the output switching stage. They
are dirt cheap nowadays.
-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
Such an inverter would not be as complicated as the main motor
controller due to the reduced size, but complicated nonetheless.
Actually I take that back, technically it's more complicated due to the
topology, but with the much lower current the output stage is going to
be cheaper and easier to build even though it's AC and thus must have 4
transistors at least instead of one.
Some of the newer home AC units use a three-phase inverter arrangement
and either a sensorless 3-phase BLDC or ACIM. Fairchild Semiconductor
carries a line of 6-pack IGBT modules with driver circuitry for this
application. I've used them just to play with. They work ok, and they
are sized for the 2 to 5 kW region - exactly right for AC units. You
can also get motor control processors pre-programmed for this purpose.
Freescale (Motorola) has a single-chip ACIM control IC that would
be really nice to use for this. It would not be so good for traction
applications but for an AC system, the inverter could be very simple
and have a very low design time required.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't mean the design was problematic, I meant his setup. I didn't see
that message about the slug, but looks like I called it....
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: Raptor 600 problem
It is not problematic. I've been using mine just fine
for 3.5 years now.
It does give interference to the radio, but compare
that with the fact that it won't wear out like a
potbox will.
He's figured out that the slug just wasn't seated
deeply inside the coil.
--- "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That inductive throttle sensor seems problematic.
Do they have any way to
verify proper range? Can you put a scope or
frequency counter on it?
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: Raptor 600 problem
> Thanks for the help everyone. I think I have it
> working better now. I've still got some things
that
> need tweaking, but yesterday I was able to get
plenty
> of power out of it. I had it up to about 400 amps,
> which is about what I was looking for.
>
> It still doesn't seem to be working like it's
supposed
> to. The first 1/2" or 1" of pedal travel doesn't
do
> anything, and then it kicks in. Not to mention, it
> says in the manual that 1/2" of travel is about
> right... I have mine going well over an inch,
maybe
> two. I'm going to try the calibration for max
throttle
> again later today and see what it does. I'll also
do
> it in the dark, so I can see flickers from the
light.
>
> Thanks again for the help.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Boardwalk
> for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now
(it's updated for
> today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
>
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
--- End Message ---
