EV Digest 6838
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Anderson Connector rewiring Question
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Anderson Connector rewiring Question
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Almost !#it myself when I got this email!!!
by "Andrew Kane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: ISE and Altair Nano - Li-Ion Packs for Heavy-Duty Vehicles
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: New public EV charging equipment
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) 95 BMW 525i conversion
by "Guy Stockwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Car Trailer Rental
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Anderson Connector rewiring Question
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 95 BMW 525i conversion
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Car Trailer Rental
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Car Trailer Rental
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) BMW 318ti conversion ideas
by "Burn Rubber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 95 BMW 525i conversion
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Zilla controller insides
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Zilla controller insides
by Tim Steele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 95 BMW 525i conversion
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Car Trailer Rental
by Michael Haseltine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Chico EAA meeting Sat. June 9th
by "eb1chuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 95 BMW 525i conversion
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: 95 BMW 525i conversion
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: 95 BMW 525i conversion
by "Guy Stockwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) How Controllers Make "free" amps (was: 95 BMW 525i conversion)
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: How Controllers Make "free" amps (was: 95 BMW 525i conversion)
by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: How Controllers Make "free" amps (was: 95 BMW 525i conversion)
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ref: http://www.andersonpower.com/products/multipole-sbx.html
I'm refurbishing an EV and need to rewire two Anderson SBX 350A/600V
connectors.
In the Anderson catalog, I have a 6347G1 (Red) and one in Black
Can the cabled inserts be removed without the shown extraction tool and
if so how?
I saw in their datasheet, DS-SBX350(1)-2.pdf, that the contact part
number for 2/0 cable is 6354 while
on the Anderson web site in their instructions, instsbx.pdf,
there are 3 bushing sizes, they are
Cat No. Bushing Size
5918 2/0 to 1/0
5922 2/0 to 1
5953 2/0 to 2
what are the bushings used for and if so which one is the one that I may
need?
Can I use a battery terminal crimping tool or will I need a different
method?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Generally you can use the same tool for crimping that you use for battery
lugs. The blades are super-easy to remove with a screwdriver and can be
re-inserted at will. This means bodies can easily be changed anytime.
You just press down on the spring and pull the wire out..... The lug comes
with it. They simply snap right back in.
I love these connectors!
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 7:19 PM
Subject: Anderson Connector rewiring Question
Ref: http://www.andersonpower.com/products/multipole-sbx.html
I'm refurbishing an EV and need to rewire two Anderson SBX 350A/600V
connectors. In the Anderson catalog, I have a 6347G1 (Red) and one in
Black
Can the cabled inserts be removed without the shown extraction tool and if
so how?
I saw in their datasheet, DS-SBX350(1)-2.pdf, that the contact part number
for 2/0 cable is 6354 while
on the Anderson web site in their instructions, instsbx.pdf,
there are 3 bushing sizes, they are
Cat No. Bushing Size
5918 2/0 to 1/0
5922 2/0 to 1
5953 2/0 to 2
what are the bushings used for and if so which one is the one that I may
need?
Can I use a battery terminal crimping tool or will I need a different
method?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David, did you send this to me by mistake rather than posting
to the list?
BTW I had a 1980 Jetta and a 1982 Scirocco which I drove all
around Vermont and NH (a state notorious for over-salting) and did not
observe the effects Bob mentioned. Well, not on VW's at any rate,
International Scouts in that part of the country appear all to be
constructed of red lace. But who would make an electric Scout?
On 6/3/07, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 31 May 2007 at 10:46, Bob Rice wrote:
> Alota Jettas out there, are relatively light 2000lbs or so?
Very old ones, maybe. The 1975 Golf/Rabbit models ran a bit over 1900 lb,
and I read that at that weight VW had actually missed their goal. I don't
recall when the Jetta arrived, but year for year, Jettas were always a
couple hundred pounds heavier.
Like a lot of us, as they've aged, Golfs and Rabbits and Jettas have gotten
bigger and rounder and heavier. My '87 ICE Golf weighed about 2400lb, IIRC.
In the mid-90s weights rose to the 2500-2600lb range with Jettas about
2700. By the early 2000s they were flirting with 3000 lb, and the latest
Rabbit (the old name is back) weighs in at a portly 3137 lb. It is not
exactly a gas sipper any more.
Burp.
A lot of really good EVs were made from 1970s and 1980s VW Rabbits and
Golfs. I don't think I'd be as keen on using one as a glider today, and the
weight is certainly one reason. The more glider you have, the more lead you
need to get to 1/3 mass. The more lead you have, the more it costs to run.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 6/2/07, Jukka Järvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
And we come again to the issue: How to get 250 kW outlets all around for
charging ?
you get it without modifying the grid, by using any stationary energy
storage system. Flywheels or a set of similar high-discharge capable
and long life batteries would fit the bill.
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/4/07, bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I believe AC Propulsion at one time was trying out using an
AVCON handle that had been modified to have two large metal
tabs. The handle would charge at Level II, but if the correct
signals were present, the large metal tabs would be engaged.
Those large metal tabs would be directly connected to the EV's
pack. It was mentioned that depending on the implementation,
the pack could rapidly obtain a 60 to 80% charge. Then the
slower Level II charging would be used to finish the charging
if the EV was still plugged in.
The European version of that, the 'Mareschal' connector found on the
PSA EVs does in fact have this direct high-current connection to the
pack as standard. High power charge stations were provided (more than
20kW) which could recharge the car to 80% in 20 minutes. The
recharging paddle provided with the car only has AC contacts for the
on-board charger (3.2kW max)
http://www.tuer.org.uk/evs2/berlingo-avcon.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone have a suggestion for the following conversion?
A '95 BMW 525i that has a cw of 3483 lbs and a GVWR of 4497lbs. I'm
considering a 144 volt DC system (24 T125's), but am wondering if an AC
system is a better choice. I need a 60mi+ range and would appreciate any
suggestions?
Thanks in advance for your assistance!
Guy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What I've been doing is renting an equipment trailer from a local
equipment rental company.
This will surprise you. $70.00 for the whole weekend. I actually need
to get that thing back now since my car is still on it from the Power
of DC.
This trailer is actually brand new and they gave me new straps still
in the box. The trailer is really heavy duty with a pintel hitch but
actually my Ford Escort fits on it with 2 feet of space front and
back, so it's not that huge. It's made for hauling Bobcats and small
equipment.
So check the equipment rental places too.
I was using U-Haul but they were charging like $200 plus for the
whole weekend and then they were getting difficult to work with so I
bagged them and just use this rental place now.
Chip
On Jun 3, 2007, at 1:30 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: June 3, 2007 1:02:34 AM EDT
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Car Trailer Rental
I'm trying to take the car both ways for a show up there. So
driving it with no car on it isn't the problem and I did tell the
counter clerk that detail thinking that it maybe something like
that. Maybe it just one of those blanket polices so there is no
debating the issue. Besides they would let me rent the dolly if I
had my own truck?!?! So running the dolly empty can't be the
reason. I think I will just check with one of the car rental places
tomorrow. I sure hope they don't have the same policy. If they do
have the same policies I will find out why and report back.
Confused and taken back in Oly.
TED
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just coming back to this AXP thing, does anyone know if an EV
manufacturer or designer is putting something forward for this? The
registration is starting soon. It would be good publicity..
http://auto.xprize.org/xprize/guidelines.html
On 4/3/07, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hmmm doesn't the Rav4 EV meet all the critiera below????(except for range)
Lawrence Rhodes.....
Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [EMAIL PROTECTED] cleannewworld
Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 7:40 pm ((PDT))
http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070402/full/070402-2.html
Published online: 2 April 2007
Race for a green car
Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation.
John Whitfield
Middle of the road: contest aims for an affordable green car, rather than a
perfect one.
Start your engines: the X Prize Foundation has announced a competition to
build an environmentally friendly car.
(Guidelines below)
The winning vehicle will have to achieve at least 43 kilometres per litre
(100 miles per US gallon), regardless of the type of fuel it uses. Its
carbon emissions must be no more than 125 grams of carbon per kilometre. And
it has to be cheap enough to expect sales of 10,000 each year. "We're aiming
at the middle of the market," says Mark Goodstein, executive director of the
Automotive X Prize.
http://www.xprize.org/xprizes/automotive_x_prize.html
http://auto.xprize.org
Automotive X PRIZE
130 W. Union St.
Pasadena, CA 91103
310.587.3355 F 310.535.2701
autoprize@ xprize.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter,
The lugs are made for 2/0 cable. The reducer bushings
are used if you have smaller cable to connect. The
bushing fits into the inside of the lug and around the
smaller gauge cable so you don't end up with too loose
a fit.
The anderson lug may have a thinner wall than other
lugs you're used to crimping. Standard crimp dies
will work, but you may have to go down a size.
Jeff
--- "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Generally you can use the same tool for crimping
> that you use for battery
> lugs. The blades are super-easy to remove with a
> screwdriver and can be
> re-inserted at will. This means bodies can easily
> be changed anytime.
>
> You just press down on the spring and pull the wire
> out..... The lug comes
> with it. They simply snap right back in.
>
> I love these connectors!
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 7:19 PM
> Subject: Anderson Connector rewiring Question
>
>
> > Ref:
>
http://www.andersonpower.com/products/multipole-sbx.html
> >
> > I'm refurbishing an EV and need to rewire two
> Anderson SBX 350A/600V
> > connectors. In the Anderson catalog, I have a
> 6347G1 (Red) and one in
> > Black
> >
> > Can the cabled inserts be removed without the
> shown extraction tool and if
> > so how?
> > I saw in their datasheet, DS-SBX350(1)-2.pdf, that
> the contact part number
> > for 2/0 cable is 6354 while
> > on the Anderson web site in their instructions,
> instsbx.pdf,
> >
> > there are 3 bushing sizes, they are
> > Cat No. Bushing Size
> > 5918 2/0 to 1/0
> > 5922 2/0 to 1
> > 5953 2/0 to 2
> >
> > what are the bushings used for and if so which one
> is the one that I may
> > need?
> >
> > Can I use a battery terminal crimping tool or will
> I need a different
> > method?
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Guy and All,
Guy Stockwell wrote:
Anyone have a suggestion for the following conversion?
A '95 BMW 525i that has a cw of 3483 lbs and a GVWR of 4497lbs. I'm
considering a 144 volt DC system (24 T125's), but am wondering if an AC
system is a better choice.
Going DC....use a Zilla controller and 9 inch DC motor. With the Zilla
Z1K adjusted to limit the battery pack max current to 500 amps but set
to deliver a full 1000 amps to the motor (up to a certain rpm), you'll
protect the batteries from damaging over-current (reduces the life of
wet cells in a hurry) but will still have about 300 ft. lbs. of
much-needed torque to move such a heavy beast (probably 4000+ lbs.
converted weight). Considering the voltage sag of a 144V wet cell pack,
you'll have about 65 kw of max power, but no regen. Cost of the
motor/controller combo is about $3600. Extra costs total to about $500
for a DC-DC and contactors, and you'll want to beef up the brakes to
make up for no engine compression braking and the extra mass of the
conversion.
Going AC....use one of Victor's AC systems in the 68 kw range. By
design, it won't hurt the batteries because it can only draw about 300
amps or so. Speaking of the batteries...because of the inverter's
limited current capability you won't be able to get full power unless
the pack is in in the 300v range, so you can't stay with a 144V wet cell
pack, so to get the full 68 kw of power you'll need to re-think the
batteries. If you stay at 144V, you'll only have about 30 kw of power,
not even close to enough power. Max torque will be about half that of
the DC system, so even with the full 68 kw system the 0-60 will be a lot
slower, hill climbing will be more arduous. Cost of the motor/inverter
combo is about $9000, and changing the pack to a 300V type requires lots
of smaller AGM type batteries, so the pack cost is about double, too. On
the plus side....you'll get about 3-5% higher efficiency over the DC
system though, and nifty regen that's good for the batteries and saves
the brake pads, too. The regen is so effective, you can keep the stock
brakes, too. The DC-DC and contactors are sometimes included in the
inverter package...check with Victor or whatever AC system supplier you
go with on this.
I'm a fan of AC, but until you get to the higher cost EV setups, it's a
lot more money for quite a bit less performance. The allure of DC's raw
torque and twice the hp if using a 144V system, at about half the price,
is hard to argue with.
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Evan and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive
innovation
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 14:54:48 +0100
>Just coming back to this AXP thing, does anyone know if an
>EV manufacturer or designer is putting something forward
>for this? The registration is starting soon. It would be
>good publicity..
>
>http://auto.xprize.org/xprize/guidelines.html
I'm in touch with them and just waiting for the apps
to be avaiable for the Freedom EV which I think could win
because it is geared for real life production. I think it's
a great vehicle to get publicity, more EV designs out there
for people to see.
The best thing is the contest is designed to get
eff, producable, sellable vehicles into production which
means they will about have to be hybrid or EV.
So those of you dreaming of getting your design into
production, this contest is an excellent way to go as even
if you don't win, if it's a good design, you'll probably
find backers.
Now the Sunrise would be an excellent contestant and
probably a winner too. $10,000,000 is nothing to sneeze at!!
It's an oportunity for EV's, let's seize it!!
Jerry Dycus
>
>On 4/3/07, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote: Hmmm doesn't the Rav4 EV meet all the critiera
>> below????(except for range) Lawrence Rhodes.....
>>
>> Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive
>> innovation Posted by: "Remy Chevalier"
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] cleannewworld Date: Mon
>>Apr 2, 2007 7:40 pm ((PDT))
>> http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070402/full/070402-2.html
>>
>> Published online: 2 April 2007
>> Race for a green car
>> Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive
>> innovation. John Whitfield
>>
>> Middle of the road: contest aims for an affordable green
>> car, rather than a perfect one.
>>
>> Start your engines: the X Prize Foundation has announced
>> a competition to build an environmentally friendly car.
>> (Guidelines below)
>>
>> The winning vehicle will have to achieve at least 43
>> kilometres per litre (100 miles per US gallon),
>> regardless of the type of fuel it uses. Its carbon
>emissions must be no more than 125 grams of carbon per
>> kilometre. And it has to be cheap enough to expect sales
>> of 10,000 each year. "We're aiming at the middle of the
>> market," says Mark Goodstein, executive director of the
>>Automotive X Prize.
>> http://www.xprize.org/xprizes/automotive_x_prize.html
>> http://auto.xprize.org
>>
>> Automotive X PRIZE
>> 130 W. Union St.
>> Pasadena, CA 91103
>> 310.587.3355 F 310.535.2701
>> autoprize@ xprize.org
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Evan Tuer wrote:
Just coming back to this AXP thing, does anyone know if an EV
manufacturer or designer is putting something forward for this?
The registration is starting soon. It would be good publicity.
http://auto.xprize.org/xprize/guidelines.html
It's a wonderful idea. However, as someone who is working on a
production EV, the rules don't make it very attractive.
There are substantial entry fees, and documentation requirements that
will require a staff of people to prepare. Cars produced to compete will
certainly have to be specially built and prepared for just this event to
have any chance of winning. That means big money (the winner is the one
that spends the most)! For a small company, that means diverting scarce
resources just to win this one event, and that detracts from the
company's real mission.
It's set up to produce expensive race cars; not economical daily
drivers. Requirements like 100 mph top speed, scoring based on standings
in closed-track racing, sponsor logos plastered all over the cars, etc.
Notice that the board of directors are all the people that you would
expect to enter the race themselves; Tesla, Phoenix, etc. They are
naturally going to make rules that favor their own entries winning. So
it looks to me more like a media event than a serious attempt to attract
"outsiders".
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have already checked the equipment rental places here in Utah, and as you
say, the price is around $50 per day. The problem is that they won't let
the unit leave the State, and I need to pick up in California.
Bill Dennis
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Chip Gribben [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:43:14 -0400
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Car Trailer Rental
What I've been doing is renting an equipment trailer from a local
equipment rental company.
This will surprise you. $70.00 for the whole weekend. I actually need
to get that thing back now since my car is still on it from the Power
of DC.
This trailer is actually brand new and they gave me new straps still
in the box. The trailer is really heavy duty with a pintel hitch but
actually my Ford Escort fits on it with 2 feet of space front and
back, so it's not that huge. It's made for hauling Bobcats and small
equipment.
So check the equipment rental places too.
I was using U-Haul but they were charging like $200 plus for the
whole weekend and then they were getting difficult to work with so I
bagged them and just use this rental place now.
Chip
On Jun 3, 2007, at 1:30 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> From: "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: June 3, 2007 1:02:34 AM EDT
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Car Trailer Rental
>
>
> I'm trying to take the car both ways for a show up there. So
> driving it with no car on it isn't the problem and I did tell the
> counter clerk that detail thinking that it maybe something like
> that. Maybe it just one of those blanket polices so there is no
> debating the issue. Besides they would let me rent the dolly if I
> had my own truck?!?! So running the dolly empty can't be the
> reason. I think I will just check with one of the car rental places
> tomorrow. I sure hope they don't have the same policy. If they do
> have the same policies I will find out why and report back.
>
> Confused and taken back in Oly.
> TED
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--- Begin Message ---
Joe, you're going to have to tell me your secret. When I go to the Budget
site and put in my two zipcodes (from 92083 to 84111), the lowest price I
get is $899.
Bill Dennis
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Joe Smalley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 17:02:03 -0700
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Car Trailer Rental
I just checked with my local Budget lot.
A one way from Poulsbo to Olympia was $160 and you have two days to complete
the trip during the week. She said the weekend was slightly higher and a
round trip was lower. The $160 included a 24 foot truck to tow the trailer.
They don't rent trailers unless you rent the truck as well. If you use a 16
foot truck, the price drops to $128.
You can make reservations on line at http://www.budgettruck.com/Home.aspx.
I used a studio apartment and towing a Jetta on June 9 to June 10 from zip
code 98370 to 98501.
The inverse trip costs about $50 more.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 12:38 PM
Subject: Car Trailer Rental
> Anybody rented a car trailer to move an EV lately? The prices I'm
> getting at the big boys like U-haul, Budget and Penske for one-way
> rentals are all close to $1000, and I was hoping for something cheaper.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
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--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
With the Zilla Z1K adjusted to limit the battery pack max current to
500 amps but set to deliver a full 1000 amps to the motor
is that possible? how does it achieve that?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla controller insides
From: "Dan Frederiksen"
I'm curious about what the zillas look like on the inside, does anyone
have photos they could share?
My friend Dave (Battery Boy) Hawkins has a Zilla controller, so
when this subject came up, we decided to disassemble his and have a good
look at the insides. For Dan, and others who are
curious, we took a good, clear photo of the precision layout, and also
conducted a partial disassembly in order to fully expose the controller's
guts for all to see.
http://www.geocities.com/evguy_2000/zilla
For any that think I'm taking advantage of Otmar's talent and
dedication in an unfair fashion, I think once you see the photo that
you'll agree that he really doesn't have anything to worry about. I doubt
very few, or possibly any of those who view this would be able to recreate
the required precision engineering. Hey Dave,
I hope your controller still runs after we had it all apart.
John
Ah! Secret's out! The Hamster is what makes it go?!!Or Cat? with the
Hairball issue?
Sorry I couldn't resist.Oh, go ahead, reverse engineer it with THAT pix! I
don't think Otmar has anything to worry about.
Seeya
Bob
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269.8.7/830 - Release Date: 6/3/2007 12:47 PM
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I am currenlty on vacation and I will not be able to read the message you sent
me untill June 18th. I will be on vacation untill that time. If this is urgent
then please speak with John Stacy at 541-883-3565 or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thank you
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On 6/4/07, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
John Wayland wrote:
> With the Zilla Z1K adjusted to limit the battery pack max current to
> 500 amps but set to deliver a full 1000 amps to the motor
is that possible? how does it achieve that?
There's a semi-conducting hamster..
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Well, in the first case, Poulsbo to Olympia are
quite close, and in the same state. Zips 92083
and 84111 are neither.
Joe, you're going to have to tell me your secret. When I go to the Budget
site and put in my two zipcodes (from 92083 to 84111), the lowest price I
get is $899.
Bill Dennis
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Joe Smalley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 17:02:03 -0700
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Car Trailer Rental
I just checked with my local Budget lot.
A one way from Poulsbo to Olympia was $160 and you have two days to complete
the trip during the week. She said the weekend was slightly higher and a
round trip was lower. The $160 included a 24 foot truck to tow the trailer.
They don't rent trailers unless you rent the truck as well. If you use a 16
foot truck, the price drops to $128.
You can make reservations on line at http://www.budgettruck.com/Home.aspx.
I used a studio apartment and towing a Jetta on June 9 to June 10 from zip
code 98370 to 98501.
The inverse trip costs about $50 more.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 12:38 PM
Subject: Car Trailer Rental
Anybody rented a car trailer to move an EV lately? The prices I'm
getting at the big boys like U-haul, Budget and Penske for one-way
rentals are all close to $1000, and I was hoping for something cheaper.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web.com What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?
http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint
--
Michael Haseltine
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--- Begin Message ---
June 9th EAA meeting:
You are invited to attend the Chico chapter of the Electric Auto Association
or "EAA".
Learn more about:
. Electric automobiles
. How to convert a car to electric
. Hybrid automobiles
. Fuel cell powered automobiles
. Compressed natural gas automobiles
Meeting topic will be a DVD video called "Addicted to Oil"
This will be the last meeting for the summer..... next meeting date: Sept.
8th.
Please bring your EV projects to "Show and Tell"
Date: Saturday, June 9th from 11 am. The meeting is FREE, and all are
welcome.
Join us at Chuck Alldrin's home located at:
930 West 11th Ave
Chico, CA 95926
530-899-1835
Directions:
Go West on 11th Ave.. 1/4 mile past Holly on the North side. Look for the
black mailbox and Birch trees.
We need you at the meeting to help our new EAA chapter in Chico. If you are
not now affiliated with a local chapter, we would welcome you to transfer to
our chapter.
EV's of all types (i.e.: autos, scooters, skateboards) and Hybrids are
welcome.
For more information call:
Chuck Alldrin
530-899-1835
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--- Begin Message ---
>> > With the Zilla Z1K adjusted to limit the battery pack max current
>> > to 500 amps but set to deliver a full 1000 amps to the motor
>> is that possible? how does it achieve that?
Evan> There's a semi-conducting hamster..
Does it only step on every other bar in its wheel or does it only run on its
hind legs?
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
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--- Begin Message ---
Check out this page http://www.4qdtec.com/pwm-01.html
Quote: "You should see from the above that, if the drive MOSFET is on for a
50% duty cycle, motor voltage is 50% of battery voltage and, because battery
current only flows when the MOSFET is on, battery current is only flowing
for 50% of the time so the average battery current is only 50% of the motor
current!"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: 95 BMW 525i conversion
John Wayland wrote:
With the Zilla Z1K adjusted to limit the battery pack max current to 500
amps but set to deliver a full 1000 amps to the motor
is that possible? how does it achieve that?
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John,
Thanks for the info, any idea what kind of range I should expect with the DC
system and 144v?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Wayland
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 10:51 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 95 BMW 525i conversion
Hello Guy and All,
Guy Stockwell wrote:
>Anyone have a suggestion for the following conversion?
>
> A '95 BMW 525i that has a cw of 3483 lbs and a GVWR of 4497lbs. I'm
>considering a 144 volt DC system (24 T125's), but am wondering if an AC
>system is a better choice.
>
Going DC....use a Zilla controller and 9 inch DC motor. With the Zilla
Z1K adjusted to limit the battery pack max current to 500 amps but set
to deliver a full 1000 amps to the motor (up to a certain rpm), you'll
protect the batteries from damaging over-current (reduces the life of
wet cells in a hurry) but will still have about 300 ft. lbs. of
much-needed torque to move such a heavy beast (probably 4000+ lbs.
converted weight). Considering the voltage sag of a 144V wet cell pack,
you'll have about 65 kw of max power, but no regen. Cost of the
motor/controller combo is about $3600. Extra costs total to about $500
for a DC-DC and contactors, and you'll want to beef up the brakes to
make up for no engine compression braking and the extra mass of the
conversion.
Going AC....use one of Victor's AC systems in the 68 kw range. By
design, it won't hurt the batteries because it can only draw about 300
amps or so. Speaking of the batteries...because of the inverter's
limited current capability you won't be able to get full power unless
the pack is in in the 300v range, so you can't stay with a 144V wet cell
pack, so to get the full 68 kw of power you'll need to re-think the
batteries. If you stay at 144V, you'll only have about 30 kw of power,
not even close to enough power. Max torque will be about half that of
the DC system, so even with the full 68 kw system the 0-60 will be a lot
slower, hill climbing will be more arduous. Cost of the motor/inverter
combo is about $9000, and changing the pack to a 300V type requires lots
of smaller AGM type batteries, so the pack cost is about double, too. On
the plus side....you'll get about 3-5% higher efficiency over the DC
system though, and nifty regen that's good for the batteries and saves
the brake pads, too. The regen is so effective, you can keep the stock
brakes, too. The DC-DC and contactors are sometimes included in the
inverter package...check with Victor or whatever AC system supplier you
go with on this.
I'm a fan of AC, but until you get to the higher cost EV setups, it's a
lot more money for quite a bit less performance. The allure of DC's raw
torque and twice the hp if using a 144V system, at about half the price,
is hard to argue with.
See Ya....John Wayland
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This is because the controller is acting as a "buck converter". If the
controller is running at half throttle, then the battery volts is halved,
but the amps can be doubled. Lets say the Battery voltage is 100v. (yes
we are assuming no voltage sag, and a perfect world) The Motor is seeing an
average of 50v, so it can suck 200a and the battery average draw will only
be 100a. Do the math: Motor power: 50v * 100a = 5kw and Battery Power
out: 100v * 50a = 5kw.
See, You aren't really getting something for nothing. Free as in Mortgage
not beer!
Again, for anyone trying to understand a PWM motor controller, I suggest
taking a little time to peruse 4QD's site:
http://4qd.co.uk/faq/index.html
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: 95 BMW 525i conversion
John Wayland wrote:
With the Zilla Z1K adjusted to limit the battery pack max current to 500
amps but set to deliver a full 1000 amps to the motor
is that possible? how does it achieve that?
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I've never looked at a Zilla, but I assume it's a standard T-bridge (albeit
one that's built very well). So no, it cannot act as a boost converter.
(except maybe during regen, if supported, which would be boosting motor
volts, not battery volts.)
So at less than 100% throttle it *can* boost amps, but voltage will never be
higher than 100% of battery voltage.
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: How Controllers Make "free" amps (was: 95 BMW 525i conversion)
If the battery can supply more current than the motor requires will the
Zilla boost the battery voltage to allow the motor to increase RPMs past
the
point the motor back EMF equals the battery pack voltage? me
On 6/4/07, (-Phil-) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This is because the controller is acting as a "buck converter". If the
controller is running at half throttle, then the battery volts is halved,
but the amps can be doubled. Lets say the Battery voltage is 100v.
(yes
we are assuming no voltage sag, and a perfect world) The Motor is seeing
an
average of 50v, so it can suck 200a and the battery average draw will
only
be 100a. Do the math: Motor power: 50v * 100a = 5kw and Battery Power
out: 100v * 50a = 5kw.
See, You aren't really getting something for nothing. Free as in
Mortgage
not beer!
Again, for anyone trying to understand a PWM motor controller, I suggest
taking a little time to peruse 4QD's site:
http://4qd.co.uk/faq/index.html
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: 95 BMW 525i conversion
> John Wayland wrote:
>> With the Zilla Z1K adjusted to limit the battery pack max current to
500
>> amps but set to deliver a full 1000 amps to the motor
> is that possible? how does it achieve that?
>
>
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