EV Digest 6878
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Question about DMV
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) mailing list confusion
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Question about DMV
by "Brian Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Tesla roadster motor philsophy
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Question about DMV
by "David S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: RF/magnetic in BEV?
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Question about DMV
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Grass Roots charging infrastructure Was: Quick VEVCS poll
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Question about DMV
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: RF/magnetic in BEV?
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Quick VEVCS poll
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV digest 6876
by Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: open source motor controller
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: open source motor controller
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Battery watering
by "The Grinster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: open source motor controller
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) acidity of battery terminal crud?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Safety of inverter/controller or whole system?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: acidity of battery terminal crud?
by "David S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Grassroots charging infrastructure
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: RF/magnetic in BEV?
by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) unsubscribe
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: open source motor controller
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) UK Company Introduces Electric Sportscar with Altairnano Battery Pack
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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I apologize for replying to some posts which I thought were sent
directly to my email. turns out they were just sent in a different way
so the mail filter didn't see them as from the list
Dan
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Keith,
I'm also getting ready to register my BugE in CA. I thought that the
DMV paperwork only needed the cost of "major" components, frame, body,
motor, controller. I'll try to look up the DMV form this evening from
home.
Brian
On 6/12/07, keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
In every state
> I've lived in, vehicle registration price has
> nothing to do with the
> true value of the vehicle;
I am in the process of registering a ground up built
EV in CA and the DMV wants to know the (retail) cost
of every part (If you get it from a junk yard for $10
and its retail value is $200 you are supposed to use
the $200 )and labor at reg shop rates even though I am
doing the work myself. It is for tax purposes...of
coarse you dont have to show every reciept nor tell
them all the hours but it has to be reasonable. I
can't say I bought the parts for $100 and built the
car in 10 hrs.
they only use its "book"
> price.
There is no book value on a purpose built.
On my 1970 volkswagon bug i just told them it is a vw
bug...said nothing about its electric drive train.
they charge me $32 a year
It will get more complex as time goes on but
eventually we will probably have to pay an extra tax
on our electrics to cover the road maintence tax that
is in gas
They don't
> care if I put $10,000 worth of EV parts into a car
> with a book value of
> $100 -- I still pay registration based on its book
> value.
>
> Insurance is another matter; if you expect to be
> reimbursed for what the
> vehicle is really worth, then you need to insure it
> for that value.
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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As far as first gear, alot of us don't even use it. With an EV we can
start in second gear with no problems or just leave the gear in
second to until we get into the higher speeds. I use mostly second
and third gears.
Chip
On Jun 12, 2007, at 2:00 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
On Jun 12, 2007, at 1:11 AM, Cor van de Water wrote:
Since the max RPMs of an AC motor can be double the speed
of a DC motor, you can adjust the gearing to double the
starting torque again (half the gear ratio) but now you
have gained nothing: the motor is running at double speed
and it is immediately reduced to half, so you have the same
power and torque, no matter if you have a high voltage
or low voltage setup. Main drawbacks of high voltage are
the large nr of batteries required and the high wear of
the gearbox (or an impossible to find diff ratio).
Ok, but with an ICE there is hardly any torque until your up to
3500rpms or something. right? So you just have to treat an AC motor
more like a gas engine and not lock the tranny in second gear.
There is a reason for first gear you know.
Unless an ICE has more starting torque than and AC motor I don't
see what the problem is....???
Is this correct or am I missing something?
Tehben
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If you have customized it so much that the only thing left of the original
is the steering wheel is still really a "55 chevy" or a brand new custom
car with a "55 chevy" steering wheel?
How many parts can be replaced before it is a new car and not the original
car that has been upgraded?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:44 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Question about DMV
If you are taxed on the value of the car (a personal property tax) at time
of registration, it could be tax evasion.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: Question about DMV
> Roger Daisley wrote:
>> Be very careful about what you call your vehicle, especially in
>> California.
>> About two years ago, the DMV and tax authorities did a sting on custom
>> car
>> builders who, for example, took a '55 Chev and extensively modified it,
>> sometimes producing a car worth $100K+ and sold and registered it as a
>> '55
>> Chev, thereby avoiding a hefty tax. The builders paid huge fines for
>> their
>> slight oversight.
>
> Can you explain how this worked? If they registered it as a '55 Chevy, and
> it really *is* a '55 Chevy, what law is being broken? In every state I've
> lived in, vehicle registration price has nothing to do with the true value
> of the vehicle; they only use its "book" price. They don't care if I put
> $10,000 worth of EV parts into a car with a book value of $100 -- I still
> pay registration based on its book value.
>
> Insurance is another matter; if you expect to be reimbursed for what the
> vehicle is really worth, then you need to insure it for that value.
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
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FYI, just some reference information on this subject:
It takes about 2000-5000 gauss to erase a modern hard drive. Some laptop
and small capacity (5GB or so) drives are on the lower end, while most
other consumer drives are around 3000-4000. I would recommend staying
well under half that to avoid sporadic corruption. It would be
interesting to see what (if any) kind of gauss reading people get in the
cabins of their various conversions...
Consumer laptops and hard drives *are* actually shielded against
magnetic fields and RF to some extent, since they produce these fields
and forms of radiation themselves.
john fisher wrote:
*This is NOT intended to be a continuation of the
safety-of-magnetic-fields discussion.*
At least not for carbon-based life-form safety....
Has anyone tested the level of RF and/or magnetic fields in their EV?
I am wondering about damage to non-shielded computers like consumer
laptops and their hard drives and such. Also radio interference is up
for question, and anything else? Trivial, some, a lot? Is a hybrid
like a Prius already a good test bed for this question do you think?
thanks
John
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Brian,
I went through a "registration service" who then took
it to the DMV. the form I fillred out looked like a
DMV form and asked for major parts, misc parts and
estimated labor at "shop" prices. My registration
helper has done many special vehicles and we decided
on 5000 as the total. I Paid her based on this rate
and DMV actually gave me a $16 rebate. I still
haven't gotten to the CHP but I did get the rules so
if you send me a fax number I can send thet to you.
BTW where are you located. I am north east of San
Diego.
good luck
contact me off list if you want to swap BugE specific
stories
kEVs
--- Brian Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Keith,
>
> I'm also getting ready to register my BugE in CA. I
> thought that the
> DMV paperwork only needed the cost of "major"
> components, frame, body,
> motor, controller. I'll try to look up the DMV form
> this evening from
> home.
>
> Brian
>
> On 6/12/07, keith vansickle
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > In every state
> > > I've lived in, vehicle registration price has
> > > nothing to do with the
> > > true value of the vehicle;
> >
> > I am in the process of registering a ground up
> built
> > EV in CA and the DMV wants to know the (retail)
> cost
> > of every part (If you get it from a junk yard for
> $10
> > and its retail value is $200 you are supposed to
> use
> > the $200 )and labor at reg shop rates even though
> I am
> > doing the work myself. It is for tax
> purposes...of
> > coarse you dont have to show every reciept nor
> tell
> > them all the hours but it has to be reasonable. I
> > can't say I bought the parts for $100 and built
> the
> > car in 10 hrs.
> >
> >
> >
> > they only use its "book"
> > > price.
> >
> >
> > There is no book value on a purpose built.
> >
> > On my 1970 volkswagon bug i just told them it is a
> vw
> > bug...said nothing about its electric drive train.
> > they charge me $32 a year
> >
> >
> > It will get more complex as time goes on but
> > eventually we will probably have to pay an extra
> tax
> > on our electrics to cover the road maintence tax
> that
> > is in gas
> >
> >
> > They don't
> > > care if I put $10,000 worth of EV parts into a
> car
> > > with a book value of
> > > $100 -- I still pay registration based on its
> book
> > > value.
> > >
> > > Insurance is another matter; if you expect to be
> > > reimbursed for what the
> > > vehicle is really worth, then you need to insure
> it
> > > for that value.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ring the bells that still can ring
> > > Forget the perfect offering
> > > There is a crack in everything
> > > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
> Cohen
> > > --
> > > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> > > leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > TV dinner still cooling?
> > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
> > http://tv.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Instead of making it so hard, just use a timer like dryers at a laundromat.
Pop in a quarter for every 20 minutes. You can probably get those timers
quite reasonably, and they seem to be reasonably well made.
Dave
From: Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Grass Roots charging infrastructure Was: Quick VEVCS poll
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 06:14:06 -0500
As I recall the way the electric regulations in the US are written it is
illegal to resell electricity. Of course, you can sell access to
electricity. If you simply used the concept that 1 hour of access to a
1800 Watt limit outlet should be treated as purchasing 1.8 Kwh of
electricity then you would meet the letter of the law. That does mean that
users would be potentially paying for power they didn't actually use, but
you could adjust the hourly rate to take those kind of things into account.
You need to simplify the whole arrangement to keep the installation cost
down. No point in monitoring kilowatt hour use since you can't bill by it.
Each "station" could be as simply as a keypad locked outlet. Each user
would be assigned a pin and entering it would unlock the outlet. The
system would track the number of hours the system was in use. At the end
of the month the total hours would be billed to the customer. Individual
stations could be linked back to the master station via the electric wiring
itself similar to the way most power utilities now remote read their
electric meters.
You could start with something far simpler. Outlets with locking covers
and simple locks would make for a low initial investment. Charging club
members would pay a monthly fee for a key to the locks.
Certainly all this is technically possible. Now we just need a bunch of
EVs to make it commercially viable.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme position.
(Horace)
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Years ago I went to a Shell station near my office to see how much
they would charge if I wanted to plug in. I had enough to make the
round trip of 25 miles but was looking for place to charge just in case.
I tried to explain that drawing 7 amps for about 4 hours would not
cost much if anything but the owner insisted on charging me by the
battery like they would if someone brought in a dead battery to be
charged. That was $35.00 per battery. So this guy wanted to charge me
$560.00!!
Like I said, I tried all different ways till Sunday to say how much
the utility was charging per kWhr and it would end up being less then
$1.00 if I set my charger at 7 amps for 4 hours.
Chip
On Jun 12, 2007, at 4:20 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: June 12, 2007 4:20:35 PM EDT
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
How about if you have your 12 volt battery charge at a gas station,
they
charge you and the battery.
Roland
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> How many parts can be replaced before it is a new car and not the original
> car that has been upgraded?
I think it depends on the vintage of the vehicle.
Real old vehicles often only need to have an original chassis to be
considered as and registered as an original and not a replica.
I know folks who've rebuilt wooden bodies on steamcars from scratch and
replaced most everything but the chassis only to end up with something that
is for all intents and purposes considered an original vehicle, though
heavily restored and effectively remanufactured.
The more authentic original parts, the easier the argument to the DMV.
In the case of my 1911 Hupp-Yeats chassis, I'll register it as an original
car when it gets completed and there should be no issue.
It'll have original chassis, wheels, steering, motor & drivetrain as well as
an original amp/voltmeter and master power disconnect switch at least.
Even cars with original bodies get the bodies discarded and replaced or
massively modified or repaired and yet the vehicle is considered original.
The key is to have an authentic ID stamp on the chassis/frame/body or
whatever and ideally, an actual registration (something I don't have for
mine) or better yet, a history of registration.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
1911 Hupp-Yeats Electric: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1018
...still looking for a few good parts...
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I would not be concerned about magnetic fields unless you had a
sensitive component right next to a magnetic field source. Magnetic
fields follow and inverse cube field strength and the field rapidly
diminish with distance. RF is another matter entirely. RF is inverse
square and can/does affect radio reception. My civic conversion was
very noisy on broadcast band AM and across the entire spectrum as
indicated by my ham radio gear. FM signals still come in clear, with
the weaker stations masked by the static floor, but strong stations come
through clear. I was able to work 10 meter FM out of the Civic to the
east coast (I'm in Denver), but there was a considerable static floor
and it required a strong signal to be received.
The OEM Chevy S10E is much clearer on both AM and FM, although there is
too much noise to work SSB. 10M FM is fine as is VHF/UHF FM. I suspect
that the new digital radios would not have any problem with the local RF
field from an EV.
I do not think you need to be concerned about damage, but usability of
AM is affected by local RF fields in an EV.
Lynn
KE2EN
79,000 EV miles: 52,000 in the civic conversion, 27,000 in the OEM S10E
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/722
-----Original Message-----
From: john fisher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:14 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RF/magnetic in BEV?
*This is NOT intended to be a continuation of the
safety-of-magnetic-fields discussion.*
At least not for carbon-based life-form safety....
Has anyone tested the level of RF and/or magnetic fields in their EV? I
am wondering about damage to non-shielded
computers like consumer laptops and their hard drives and such. Also
radio interference is up for question, and anything
else? Trivial, some, a lot? Is a hybrid like a Prius already a good test
bed for this question do you think?
thanks
John
This message and any enclosures are intended only for the addressee. Please
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On the occasions when John Wayland has dropped by my place with Blue Meanie
he has plugged into my dryer outlet. My laundry room is upstairs, but other
than me having to step out the window onto the roof it hasn't been a
problem. When the new truck gets built I plan on running a couple of extra
circuits in the garage.
damon
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Quick VEVCS poll
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:10:35 -0700
I bought a NEMA 10-50 plug and socket plus some hefty cable
to make an extension cord from the stove plug in the kitchen
to reach the driveway. I did already have someone pull down the
full 50A for almost an hour without problem, so he could make it
home without endangering his batteries.
Simple and flexible solution, the only drawback is that you
need to roll it out when needed, it is not a permanent
installation.
In my case that is all the better, because I live in a rental.
Though I am still tempted to install an outdoor 6-20 outlet
near the already present outdoor 5-15, because to the untrained
eye it will look like just another regular outdoor 5-20 outlet,
the difference being that you can't plug a 110V appliance into
it and it will be capable of supplying 240V 20A :-)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:29 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Quick VEVCS poll
Of course.
But, It'll be 120vac only. I just don't see much purpose to have a 240vac
charger at home when my car sits in the driveway all night
every night anyway? Now, a 240vac charger at various stores around
town to recharge during the day would be nice.
Z
On 6/11/07, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Good afternoon everyone,
> Before I get too into developing this charging station database,
> I thought I'd take a survey to see how many people would actually
> volunteer their charger/120/240 outlet to an EV driver in the area.
> Please take a second to complete this poll.
>
> http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/?p=16
>
> Thank you,
> Brandon Kruger
> http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
> http://cafepress.com/altfuel
>
>
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Hi,
On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 11:00 -0700, Electric Vehicle Discussion List
wrote:
> In colorado, if a vehical is over 25 years old, you can get
> collector
> plates, and never have to have it inspected again (till you
> sell it,
> at least). So, since my donor is a 1974 pickup, I get it
> registered
> once, and they never need to know it's an electric. Unless
> I want
> to get the tax credit for converting it to electric.......
> then I have
> to get a certified police inspection to make sure it's really
> an
> electric now.
>
Unless you live in the metro Denver smog district. Then you have to get
a smog sticker ever 5 years. I just titled/registered my 1981 donor
with collector's plates, the sticker expires in 2012.
---
Steve
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I do quite a bit of RVing, and there are campgrounds that will rent you a
space by the month (or more) for a fee plus electric. They have a meter on
every campsite (or every long term campsite, depending on the park) and your
electric is added to your rent, i.e. you pay the campground for your
electricity usage, not the electric company. So either reselling
electricity is legal, at least in some states, or they're below the radar.
Dave
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:29:00 -0600
Well, obviously the first thing is to find out whether or not it is
illegal. It probably varies all over the place depending on your
utility, state, what the PUC decided or didn't decide, what sorts of
contracts the power company has, etc. The trick is to probably to
avoid become defined as a power company -- in power purchase
agreements for PV systems owned by a third party instead of the user
of the electricity that's what we have to make sure of. And "someone
mentioned" has the ring of someone who has no clue what they are
talking about but pretends that they do.... "someone mentioned" to me
last week that connecting PV system to the grid is illegal and
dangerous -- despite the fact that the power company here, a rather
conservative body, has reviewed and approved thousands of them.
Even if reselling power is strictly not allowed, I'm sure there are
ways around it. Think of campgrounds with RV hookups -- they sell
power, but probably not as directly sold power -- they are selling a
service of some sort, not power as a commodity.
Z
On 6/12/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I don't understand how it could be illegal. Once you buy the power from
the power company it should be yours to do with as you please. Does
anyone have any information as to why it would be illegal?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:06
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
Rent the parking space or the outlet time and throw the power in for
free?
Gotta be a bunch of ways around that.
Marty
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On 6/12/07, Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
OSMC is nice, might work for my outboard motor, but the PROBLEM is all
the real effort is to "scale up" to 1000amps and 200 volts.
200kilowatts, aint that a bit of overkill for driving to mall and back ?
OSMC is rated 8KW. Dont aim too far in one go and you might actually
make it. High perfomance means high investment. Start smaller.
-kert
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That's not an unreasonable size at all. The most common controllers in use
are probably the Curtis which usually come in at around half that figure.
Many consider the Curtis controllers to barely have adequate performance.
One thousand amps and 200 volts would be much nicer for either a heavy EV or
someone wanting some real performance. This is not even close to the
highest level Zillas.
damon
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: open source motor controller
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:37:08 +0300
On 6/12/07, Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
OSMC is nice, might work for my outboard motor, but the PROBLEM is all
the real effort is to "scale up" to 1000amps and 200 volts.
200kilowatts, aint that a bit of overkill for driving to mall and back ?
OSMC is rated 8KW. Dont aim too far in one go and you might actually
make it. High perfomance means high investment. Start smaller.
-kert
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As with everything I imagine a small operation would survive for a time
until it grew big eneough to challenge the power industry.
For example it is illegal for a non commericial pilot to accept paying
passengers but it is legal for them to split costs for gas and such with
a non paying passenger.
A similiar barter system at cost could perhaps be worked out for
electricity charging at cost.
If you started charging for profit it would be a bigger problem.
The other issue is if you have a lot of cars pulling into a residential
location.
But again as long as it is a small operation it doesn't draw attention.
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 7:40 am, Richard Acuti wrote:
Someone mentioned that it's illegal to resell electrical power.
This is sort of throwing a crimp into our plans. I have some questions
about that:
Obviously you can let people roll up to your house and charge for free.
How exactly do you charge for "electrical access"? Pay a flat fee to
unlock a charging box?
Would it be considered "selling" electricity if you accepted donations?
What if you only take the amount of money for the power that they use
(no profit)?
What's the trick to getting around this?
Rich A.
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I have used AquaPro (http://www.aquapro.net/index.html) with excellent
results. Beware - not inexpensive! But seems to be a high-quality
product and the North America rep was very nice to deal with.
I was still nervous about having batteries where I could not visually
inspect them, but at least watering was not one of my worries with the
AquaPro system.
Regards,
Constance in NC
grinning since Sept. '05
1980 Lectric Leopard
On 6/8/07, Marty Hewes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Has anyone tried a water reservoir with tubes running to each cell to remote
water them? I sure would like to stick floodies under the floor where they
are tough to get to.
Marty
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On 6/13/07, damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
One thousand amps and 200 volts would be much nicer for either a heavy EV or
someone wanting some real performance.
Once again. Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick any two. Performance does not go
in hand with cheap, and "real performance" designs are proprietary.
If you want open source, OSMC is whats out there, feel fee to improve upon it.
Someone "wanting some real performance" can have it: cafeelectric.com
is still at your service.
-kert
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Quick question... what is the composition of the crud/corrosion that
forms on the terminals of flooded lead acid batteries?
In an ideal world, the terminals stay clean, but in the real world,
sometimes the stuff grows... white/yellow/green/blue semi-solid powdery
or gooey stuff.
Is there acid in the crud? Or does whatever chemical process that
produces it use up the acid?
The practical reason for this is to know how carefully to remove, handle
and dispose of the crud - will it eat holes in my jeans like the
electrolyte?
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1997 Solectria Force
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
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> I have a question. How does a motor lock up? what is holding it in
> place? 1 leg of the 3-phase?
All electric motors will also work as generators under the right circumstances.
The "right circumstances" depend on the type of motor.
A controller failure that creates these circumstances can therefore generate
huge currents, which in turn produces huge braking torques -- enough to lock or
skid tires on dry pavement if the motor is big enough.
Induction motor:
Any fault that runs DC current through any winding makes it a powerful brake.
DC can be looked at as zero frequency; thus the motor tries to run at "zero"
RPM. Even a very low DC voltage produces huge braking forces, because the
winding resistance is so low that very large DC currents can flow.
With a typical 3-phase 6-switch inverter, it takes two transistor failures to
produce this fault (one upper, one lower).
PM motor (any type, AC or DC):
Any fault that shorts the motor produces a huge fault current, and in turn a
huge braking torque. For a PM DC motor, this could be a shorted freewheel
diode. For a 3-phase PM AC ("brushless DC") motor, all it takes is one failed
transistor, because the freewheel diodes naturally conduct to complete the path.
Series motor:
Becomes a generator if rotated backwards from the direction it wants to run as
a motor. A common way for this to happen is roll backwards while in a forward
gear (or roll forwards while in reverse). Nothing happens until the RPM exceeds
some critical value; where the unpowered field's residual magnetism generates
enough voltage to overcom the brush drop and drop of any external parts (like
the freewheel diode's forward drop). Then suddenly, current begins to flow.
This current powers the series winding, which strengthens the field, which
further raises the voltage and current, and you have a runaway condition that
almost instantly produces hundreds of amps and huge braking torques.
Sepex motor:
Requires that something shorts the armature *and* that the field current is
left on.
--
I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum. --
Frances Willard
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Use there is acid in that crud.
You can apply coatings to that will prevent the crud build up.
I think even Vaseline will do.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jim Coate
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:16 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: acidity of battery terminal crud?
Quick question... what is the composition of the crud/corrosion that
forms on the terminals of flooded lead acid batteries?
In an ideal world, the terminals stay clean, but in the real world,
sometimes the stuff grows... white/yellow/green/blue semi-solid powdery
or gooey stuff.
Is there acid in the crud? Or does whatever chemical process that
produces it use up the acid?
The practical reason for this is to know how carefully to remove, handle
and dispose of the crud - will it eat holes in my jeans like the
electrolyte?
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1997 Solectria Force
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
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Dave offered:
_________________________________________________________________
I do quite a bit of RVing, and there are campgrounds that will rent you a
space by the month (or more) for a fee plus electric. They have a meter on
every campsite (or every long term campsite, depending on the park) and your
electric is added to your rent, i.e. you pay the campground for your
electricity usage, not the electric company. So either reselling
electricity is legal, at least in some states, or they're below the radar.
_________________________________________________________________
Dave-
Same story for marinas---my marina charges me per kwh for charging my boat
batts...one time while cruising I nearly ran out of electricity and pulled
into another marina which charged me a flat $5 fee to charge at the docks
for an hour.
-Myles
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Considering that electric drives on hybrids are much more potent than most
full EVs on the road, I'd have to say there's no problem. I've never heard a
Prius owner complain about radio reception or hard-drive damage yet. How's
that for hard data?? :)
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Has anyone tested the level of RF and/or magnetic fields in their EV? I am
wondering about damage to non-shielded computers like consumer laptops and
their hard drives and such. Also radio interference is up for question,
and anything else? Trivial, some, a lot? Is a hybrid like a Prius already
a good test bed for this question do you think?
thanks
John
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Your preaching to the choir here. I'm sticking with Alltrax until I upgrade
to a Zilla. It just seemed that you thought that the stated power
requirements were way out of line.
I understand peoples desire to roll their own as an educational experience,
but when you can buy something of quality for around the same cost of doing
it yourself I don't see a lot of other reasons to go that route.
damon
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: open source motor controller
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 01:16:18 +0300
On 6/13/07, damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
One thousand amps and 200 volts would be much nicer for either a heavy EV
or
someone wanting some real performance.
Once again. Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick any two. Performance does not go
in hand with cheap, and "real performance" designs are proprietary.
If you want open source, OSMC is whats out there, feel fee to improve upon
it.
Someone "wanting some real performance" can have it: cafeelectric.com
is still at your service.
-kert
_________________________________________________________________
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Sounds like some pretty insane performance! But what a price tag! US
$296,000
Tehben
UK Company Introduces Electric Sportscar with Altairnano Battery
Pack; More Models Planned
12 June 2007
Lightning
The Lightning GT.
A UK-based car company is introducing an all-electric luxury
sportscar powered by an Altair Nanotechnologies lithium-ion battery
pack and PML Flightlink in-wheel motors. The Lightning Car Company
(LCC) is targeting a range for its Lightning GT models of
approximately 250 miles and a top speed of 130 mph or 150 mph.
The top speed, according to the company, is a function of the motor.
This can be manufactured to suit at the expense of acceleration,
which in the GTS model is 0-60 mph in 4 seconds.
The electric Lightning uses a 35 kWh battery pack with 30 Altairnano
large-format NanoSafe batteries. These are currently similar to the
batteries used in the Phoenix Motorcars all-electric sport utility
truck (SUT). However, LCC plans to change to the higher spec cells in
development. Lightning developed the drive system, charge and
management system. As to a warranty for the pack, LCC says that it is
in discussion with Altairnano.
Lightning Car Company did not consider taking the Tesla approach by
assembling a battery pack from thousands of commodity small format
18650 cells. The company believes that approach to be a “backward
step”, with safety concerns, lower performance, and manufacturing and
technical complexity.
We believe Altairnano and their battery technology is leading
the world. The issue, however, is purely cost as we do not have tax
credits here in UK for our vehicles.
—Arthur Wolstenholme, Lightning Car Company
Altairnano batteries can be recharged in 10 minutes, as recently
verified for Phoenix Motorcars and the California Air Resources Board
by AeroVironment. The Lightning cars require no thermal management or
dedicated cooling system for the battery pack. The motor units are
cooled using onboard cooling systems.
The car uses four 120 kW Hi-Pa HPD40 electric wheel motors from PML
Flightlink. The Hi-Pa Drive unit combines the motor and drive
electronics in a single package. The units offer full regenerative
braking down to very low speed, full holding torque at zero speed, a
built-in brake resistor (for full charge regeneration situation), and
a wide speed range. (These are the same in-wheel units used by PML
Flightlink in the prototype plug-in series hybrid conversion of a
MINI, the MIN QED. Earlier post.)
Each HPD40 drive unit offers maximum torque of 750 Nm (533 lb-ft).
The torque curve is relatively flat, dropping off to around 600Nm at
top speed.
The body for the Lightning GT is built from a combination of carbon
fiber and Kevlar.
The price for the extended and top of the range models is around
£150,000 (US$296,000). The company is taking reservations for 2008
delivery. The company also says that it is also planning other types
of electric cars, but that it cannot comment further at this point.
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