EV Digest 6987
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Wheel alignment Or How to significantly reduce rolling
resistance! .. hill climbing ..
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: bike spedos in evs
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: tesla car .. tango .. motor ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Honda Insight
by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Wheel alignment Or How to significantly reduce rolling resistance! ..
hill climbing ..
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Zilla emergency shutdown
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Zilla emergency shutdown
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: PVC Glue
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Zilla emergency shutdown
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: bike spedos in evs
by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: might be the electric car of the future
by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: might be the electric car of the future
by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Wheel alignment Or How to significantly reduce rolling
resistance! .. hill climbing ..
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) High voltage cable protection and color coding
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) The Pontiac Fiero as an EV
by Joseph Lado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Fiero conversions..?
by "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Wheel alignment Or How to significantly reduce rolling
resistance! .. hill climbing ..
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Zilla emergency shutdown
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Zilla emergency shutdown
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Zilla emergency shutdown
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
--- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It can be done. And I think Lee pointed out, most
> times you come down those hills, so regen and get some
> energy back. Your combustion engine cars cannot do
> that. Maybe EVs are better on hills.
>
Unless, like mine, it has no regen. In that case you need better brakes than a
gasser. That's why
I skipped the Mt Washington climb. Oh well.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Best bang for the buck. However attaching the sensor magnet can be
challenging. You must be able to know exactly the circumference of your
tire and that it fits in the range of your speedo. Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 8:40 AM
Subject: bike spedos in evs
> Has anyone put a bicycle spedo (aka computer) in their ev? Are there
> any other options for speedometers?
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/BICYCLE-ODOMETER-SPEEDOMETER-BIKE-CYCLING-COMPUTER_W0QQitemZ330142869559QQihZ014QQcategoryZ30108QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> --
> Brian in TX
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
> http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
> It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
> really quite busy.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
peekay wrote:
1. Why should I NOT buy a Tango?
Because they cost $100,000 US? You may have much better uses for
this much money.
Bob Rice wrote:
And Lee will have something cheaper/better! The Sunrise Project, Lee,
Keep them posted! Warning! Will be passin' through your area, same ole
green Prius, on the way to PDX, to see you and Tim again. Check out the
Sunrise, maybe a chassis ride? So saying Seeya and meaning it.
Great! I'm looking forward to it, Bob. Do you have a date in mind? Keith
Woodbury was just here for a visit, and took a look at what we're doing
with the Sunrise. Guests are always welcome.
We just hired our first employee; a student to help with the sanding and
body prep for the Sunrise body. Things are picking up.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not mechanically, just hard on the wallet. : ]
Like most Honda parts. : (
Trot, the multiply-Honda-owning, fox... (though not right now)
On 7/3/07, Joseph T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Replacing an EGR valve on a Honda Insight is no biggie, right?
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would get 373 miles with my electric pickup truck if I drove around on a
level track at 15 mph for 25 hours. (maybe 150 to be honest)
Granted, the Sunrise is AC, had good batteries, is/was extremely efficient.
But alas, as I heard the rumour, it was driven very slowly on the range
testing track for hours upon hours.
Sorry for the slow response; I had to dig up some numbers for you.
In May 1995, James Worden raced the Sunrise in the Tour de Sol, going
238 miles on one charge. Rather than dawdle, he got a "ticket" for
speeding from race officials for exceeding the posted speed limits.
In Oct 1997, Worden drove a Sunrise from Boston to New York City, about
270 miles, at normal freeway speeds.
In closed-track range tests at low constant speeds, the Sunrise went
over 400 miles on a charge. (The quoted 373 miles was in one test with
media present).
So, while the "up to..." numbers aren't very meaningful, a range of 200+
miles even in normal driving is pretty impressive!
Of course, these were all done with "unobtainium" GM/Ovonic nimh batteries.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One of the old Eletreks climbed Pikes peak too. With 96 volts of
T-145s. But, it did it very slowly -- I recall the owner said below
10mph near the top -- and regened all the way back down past the
staging point and apparently made it halfway back to Denver on I-25
before the batteries went dead again.
Z
On 7/3/07, Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
--- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It can be done. And I think Lee pointed out, most
> times you come down those hills, so regen and get some
> energy back. Your combustion engine cars cannot do
> that. Maybe EVs are better on hills.
>
Unless, like mine, it has no regen. In that case you need better brakes than a
gasser. That's why
I skipped the Mt Washington climb. Oh well.
Dave Cover
--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com
CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders
Quotable Quote
"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."
Wendell Berry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chip Gribben wrote:
> How about an inertia switch?
> Ford has these on their cars, I think. You hit something it
> turns the car off.
I think an inertia switch is a very sensible idea, and have included one
in my EV to drop power to the the contactors in the event of a
collision.
A possible issue with using one as an emergency disconnect is that the
ones I've seen only provide a means for re-arming them, not for tripping
them. You can trip them by striking them, but that's not really
intuitive and it isn't nearly as confidence inspiring as separating an
Anderson connector or turning off a big red key on the 12V system, etc.
What do the hybrids provide? They have set the standard of using orange
cabling, etc. to identify high voltage/traction wiring to emergency
personnel, so presumably they have also set some de-facto standard for
the battery disconnect.
> I think it's on the Electric Ford Ranger, but I'm sure you can get
> them somewhere.
I bought mine from EV Parts; they are used on pretty much every Ford
vehicle with fuel injection as their purpose is to kill the 12V power to
the fuel pump in the event of a collision.
Dewey, Jody wrote:
> I think you could get one from any ford car. They are in the
> back by the fuel tank.
The precise location varies from model to model. On my '95 Aerostar,
the inertia switch is located on the side of the passenger footwell,
behind a trim panel. On my '97 Escort wagon it was in the driver's
footwell near the fuseblock. I'd expect other Escort models to be
similar.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just google interia switch and you'll find some stuff. The only
problem is that the interia switches have a "g" rating. I am assuming
it is the range of g's that make the switch cut off. Does anyone know
the g's you ecounter in an accident?
On 7/3/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I think you could get one from any ford car. They are in the back by
the fuel tank. If you hit the car hard enough they shut the fuel pump
off.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chip Gribben
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 14:40
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Zilla emergency shutdown
How about an inertia switch?
Ford has these on their cars, I think. You hit something it turns the
car off. I think the Tour de Sol cars had to have these but can't recall
and anyone get easily get one.
I opened one up years ago. I think it had a ball bearing or something
inside that would release upon impact and strike a relay. It was mounted
under the dash on the firewall. It's all a 12 volt affair so it would be
just like any other relay in series with the key switch.
I think it's on the Electric Ford Ranger, but I'm sure you can get them
somewhere.
These folks are going overboard on the safety issue as far as an
emergency kill switch. Are they going to require the same thing on OEMs.
Granted we do at NEDRA but even the gassers have to have an emergency
cut off switch on the back.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On Jul 3, 2007, at 1:31 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: July 3, 2007 1:23:12 PM EDT
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Zilla emergency shutdown
>
>
> Hi Dave;
>
> Didn't the State want a Kill button OUTSIDE the damn car, like a Big
> Red Button in the BACK, OUTSIDE like the Nedra rules? That's wgat I
> thought that paper sez. The state is as clueless about EV's as I am
> with nuclear Fissin'! I sorta set my BIG fuseholder up in a positition
> in my Jetta trunk , planning a steel Cam Over setup you could pull
> outside the car, right above where it sez; ":Led Sled"
> which would pop the 200 amp fuze out. If forced onto the issue? Not
> crazt about an obviously marked thing like that in public.CDOT didn't
> have that on any of their Forces from Solectria. CT DID have an
> intreaging program, in the DOT with a few EV's. Thats wHY the
> "Electric" tag is taken. I asked, was willing to actually PAY
> Corrupticut for ann Electric Tag.Maybe "Lectrik" or something like
> that? I'm too cheap to PAY for a specuial tag, it doesn't give me any
> better range? Does it?
>
> I like your plans to Kill the car. If UI were the inspecter??OK by
> me.Isn't there inertional type switch thingies in some gas rigs that
> kill THEM if hit?Or what turns on the Airbags?
>
> Of course the firepeople will probably want to hack up as many
> cables they can find, in a wreck? They LOVE to do that! So try to stay
> consious, after the wreck, to protect yur investment<G> They CLIMBED
> all over Tony's Rabbit in Worchester during HIS fire.
> Christ! They coulda pushed the car to safer ground, unharmed!
> Punched out a window in his Isuzu pickup! Why? Because they COULD, to
> quote Tony.
>
> What do ya do? Tow the car over to DOT in Weathersfield?This must be
> an ongoing thing? I can't wait for the emmissions folks to hit me up
> for a test<g>! I hope that goes as smoothly as before with the
> Rabbit?? They never LOOKED at the car, took my word for it that it was
> electric. Do I have a trusting voice??As a dedicated CT Taxpayer? No
> hassle, guy was very nice, we chatted close to an hour!
> Changed my VIN to electric powered, as they SHOULD for yur Porsche.
> VIN is how they go, if car was Born with a Diseasel or Gas engine
> THAT'S what it is in CT's archives, until ya hit the right guy!
>
> Good Luck
>
> Bob
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 8:08 AM
> Subject: Zilla emergency shutdown
>
>
>> I have to provide a means to shut down my car in an emergency. The
>> state wants me to provide a way for emergency personel to shut 'er
>> down if I run into a tree. The emergency people want to be sure that
>> the pack is positively disconnected, which means the contactors are
>> open. My preference is to interrupt the power at the 12 volt level so
>> the controller will shut itself down. I have my eye on one of those
>> big red buttons you mash to kill things. I'd place it in a very
>> prominent location under the hood to give them the warm and fuzzies.
>> They can also just turn off the key in the ignition.
>>
>> Parameters:
>> 1 - protect the Zilla
>> 2 - sacrifice the contactors if need be
>> 3 - make sure the system shuts down and contactors open
>>
>> I have a very standard configuration with one exception. I have an
>> additional contactor on the negative side of the pack which is
>> energized when the key switch goes to the on position. I use the
>> start position to tell the Zilla to start up, and it decides when to
>> pull in the positive side contactor.
>>
>> 1. Can I use the kill switch to open the negative side contactor?
>> It will zorch the contactor if
>> it's carrying current, but will the Zilla suffer?
>>
>> 2. Should I interrupt the 12 volt directly to the Zilla pin 3, Key
>> Input (just like turning off the key)? What will happen if under
>> power?
>>
>> 3. Is there a specific connection on the Zilla for this purpose?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Dave Cover
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/885 - Release Date:
>> 7/3/2007 10:02 AM
>>
>>
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
JB Weld is nothing more than a high temp epoxy with an metal powder
filler and a helluva lot of good marketing.
It cannot do much that epoxy cannot do except for high temp work. The
filler is helpful in some circumstances and detrimental in others,
because it's a somewhat thicker mix which doesn't gap-fill as well.
PVC is generally bondable with epoxy. If you start with something like
PVC pipe, the smooth glossy surface is a pretty poor bond. Chances are
you will be able to rip it apart by hand without too much trouble. A
more roughened surface like expanded PVC board (Sintra) can make a
fairly good bond.
This joint seems likely to fail with any sort of glue. Normally PVC is
chemically welded to PVC, which is an ideal joint. It will be as strong
as the base material and they become one part.
I could think of 2 solutions. One, you make L brackets out of expanded
PVC foam board, which is light, cheap, and tough though being an
L-bracket I'd worry about flexing failure. You'd just use heat to
soften a rectangle of it and bend it into a bracket shape.
The other thing I might think of would be to rivet the metal bracket to
a backing of the PVC board. The rivets much be flush with the bonding
surface so you might coutersink the surface by 1 mm or so and use pop
rivets. Then you can weld this part to the PVC part.
Danny
JB weld does a great job. It will bond to anything.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 13:58
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: PVC Glue
Bill Dennis wrote:
I've got a few PVC body parts to which I need to affix some metal
L-brackets, which will then get bolted to the frame. One suggestion I
got was to use Gorilla Glue. Does anyone have any other recommendation
for a good glue or mastic to attach the L-brackets to the PVC?
Bonding plastic to metal is never going to be particularly strong. The
materials are too much different in their flexibility and expansion with
temperature. Shock, vibration, flexing, and temperature changes will
cause the joint to fail soone or later.
Can you make the L-brackets out of plastic too? Then you can reliably
bond them to the plastic body parts, and then use screws, rivets, etc.
to reliably connect the plastic L-brackets to the frame.
The most reliable way to bond most plastics is welding. You either
disolve the plastic with a suitable solvent, or use heat to melt and
fuse the plastic together.
ABS is pretty easy to hot-air weld. My only ComutaVan body was ABS, and
probaby had 100 feet of hot air welded seams due to all the stress
cracking accumulated over the years.
--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's right, the inertia switches were mounted by the fuel tank.
People converting EVs were mounting them up on the firewall.
Like you said, they are easy to get. So that would be a thought,
especially since Ford uses them.
Chip
On Jul 3, 2007, at 2:53 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: July 3, 2007 2:46:31 PM EDT
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Zilla emergency shutdown
I think you could get one from any ford car. They are in the back by
the fuel tank. If you hit the car hard enough they shut the fuel pump
off.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chip Gribben
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 14:40
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Zilla emergency shutdown
How about an inertia switch?
Ford has these on their cars, I think. You hit something it turns the
car off. I think the Tour de Sol cars had to have these but can't
recall
and anyone get easily get one.
I opened one up years ago. I think it had a ball bearing or something
inside that would release upon impact and strike a relay. It was
mounted
under the dash on the firewall. It's all a 12 volt affair so it
would be
just like any other relay in series with the key switch.
I think it's on the Electric Ford Ranger, but I'm sure you can get
them
somewhere.
These folks are going overboard on the safety issue as far as an
emergency kill switch. Are they going to require the same thing on
OEMs.
Granted we do at NEDRA but even the gassers have to have an emergency
cut off switch on the back.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Finding out the exact circumference is very easy with any tire.
Mark a spot on the tire and a matching spot on the ground. Then roll the
car for 1 tire rotation. Mark the ground under the spot on the tire and
measure the distance between the marks. Be sure to do this with the
operating weight of the vehicle and tires fully aired up.
> Stephen Paschke
> DAR, ERISA, Plan Review, and IPI/ICTMS support,
>TIAA-CREF Denver
> Senior Consultant
> Keane, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:05 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: bike spedos in evs
Best bang for the buck. However attaching the sensor magnet can be
challenging. You must be able to know exactly the circumference of your
tire and that it fits in the range of your speedo. Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 8:40 AM
Subject: bike spedos in evs
> Has anyone put a bicycle spedo (aka computer) in their ev? Are there
> any other options for speedometers?
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/BICYCLE-ODOMETER-SPEEDOMETER-BIKE-CYCLING-COMPUTER_W
0QQitemZ330142869559QQihZ014QQcategoryZ30108QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> --
> Brian in TX
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
> http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
> It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
> really quite busy.
>
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You are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You have a very good point.
However, I trust a mechanical steering system much more than
differential Curtis controllers. Granted, I don't yet own an EV but
what I've researched claims that this is an issue to be prepared for.
In other words... I'm just sayin'.
Trot, the apprehensive, fox...
On 7/3/07, Andre' Blanchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ever consider what happens in a more conventional car when the steering
system fails?
Ball joints, tie rods, a little bit of metal gets jammed in the gears in
the steering box, etc..
Same thing would happen with this car, you no longer have full control or
any control.
This car could at least have two independent systems for directional
control, the motors and differential braking.
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom,
I've seen you driving this thing around in the videos so I know I must
be missing something here. You cannot have a stable vehicle that
doesn't either use some form of active balancing control (rider on a
motorcycle, computer in a Segue) or doesn't have at least a 3-point
suspension. Therefore either your front wheel is bearing some load
(which is must unless you've made a higher-powered version of the
Segue) or your front end is riding on a cushion of air.
If there is any weight on that front wheel it's a load bearing device.
In fact, under emergency braking conditions it may take Most of the
car's weight.
Again I ask, what's you stopping distance like during panic braking?
I'm not truly trying to give you a hard time, I just truly think the
design is flawed for a high-speed vehicle.
On the other hand, as the driver of a Fiero, I appreciate that you've
done something unique and hope that all my concerns are...
placate-able.
Trot, the honest, fox...
On 7/3/07, Tom S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Grayfoot,
The front wheel is not a load bearing wheel, and does not steer in any way, it
has very little effect on the car on or off the ground.
If you study controllers you will find a comtroller will not stay on more than
milliseconds if the pulse width modulator shorts out.The car also has a very
low center of gravity, very hard to tip over.
Tom Sines
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As a mater of fact if you check the pikes peek hill
climb one of the unsers ( Jeri Unser) drove an
electric up and won in her class it was in 2003 and
she did it in 7.28 min so not only completed the run
but did it very quickly. for more info go to
www.compactpower.com
kEVs
--- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > my own view is that ev's are very suitable for
> flat
> > lands ..
> > and very modest climbs (like approaches to
> fly-overs
> > or bridges)
> >
> > ev's are totally unsuitable for up-hill climbs
> >
> > ..peekay
> >
> >
>
> Hey Peekay,
>
> Battery powered EVs go up Pike's Peak, tallest
> mountain in US (lower 48).
>
> http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/pikes_peak_ER3.html
>
>
> That is elevation gain of 4700 feet in 12.4 miles.
>
> It can be done. And I think Lee pointed out, most
> times you come down those hills, so regen and get
> some
> energy back. Your combustion engine cars cannot do
> that. Maybe EVs are better on hills.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They [hybrids] have set the standard of using orange
cabling, etc. to identify high voltage/traction wiring to emergency
personnel
This sounds like a great idea.... but where to buy bright orange fine
strand 2/0 or 4/0 cable... I can get RED or BLACK fine strand 4/0 THWN
which is rated for 600 volts (unlike some of the other welding cable),
but haven't seen bright orange.
On mine, I was thinking of running all of my high voltage cable inside
of liquidtight nonmetallic flex conduit (or Schedule 80 PVC where I
have long straight runs, like the main return to the back of the
battery bank along the framerails). Mostly for protection from pack
rats, but also abrasion and vibration. But should those conduits be
brightly colored too? Perhaps get some of the electrical tape that's
black and yellow striped, and wrap it all?
Z
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a Fiero converted by Solar Electric Engineering back in 1993, when they
were trying to make a business out of converting cars to electric. Solar
Electric Engineering split into USElectricar then died and was reborn as Xebra,
then died again, then came back as Zap. Gary Starr was the head of Solar
Electric Engineering when my car was converted. They called it the Destiny2000
and the sold two models one with solar panels embeded in the front and back
hoods and one without. I drive my Destiny2000, which I call EV SOL to and from
work every day. About 11 miles total. The longest I have ever gone on a single
charge was 48.6 miles. The car can go easily 75 miles an hour without straining
on a flat surface. Down hill it will do more. Up hill I don't know. I used to
have a little trouble in second gear getting up hills with my old 1221B Curtis
controller. I had it rebuilt last year and it climbs hills much better now. I
love my EV SOL. As a daily commuter car it is almost
perfect. I even took it to the Power of DC and did the EVautoX thing. Man was
that fun. For a 14 year old as an EV it still works fine. I would recommend
Fieros as good cars to convert.
Joe Lado
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--- Begin Message ---
OOPs wrong link
http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/pikes_peak_ER3.html
is the corect one
--- keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> As a mater of fact if you check the pikes peek hill
> climb one of the unsers ( Jeri Unser) drove an
> electric up and won in her class it was in 2003 and
> she did it in 7.28 min so not only completed the run
> but did it very quickly. for more info go to
> www.compactpower.com
>
> kEVs
>
>
> --- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > --- peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > my own view is that ev's are very suitable for
> > flat
> > > lands ..
> > > and very modest climbs (like approaches to
> > fly-overs
> > > or bridges)
> > >
> > > ev's are totally unsuitable for up-hill climbs
> > >
> > > ..peekay
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Hey Peekay,
> >
> > Battery powered EVs go up Pike's Peak, tallest
> > mountain in US (lower 48).
> >
> >
> http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/pikes_peak_ER3.html
> >
> >
> > That is elevation gain of 4700 feet in 12.4 miles.
>
> >
> > It can be done. And I think Lee pointed out, most
> > times you come down those hills, so regen and get
> > some
> > energy back. Your combustion engine cars cannot
> do
> > that. Maybe EVs are better on hills.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
> > that gives answers, not web links.
> >
>
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out
> Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for
today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
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--- Begin Message ---
Joseph T. wrote:
> The only
> problem is that the interia switches have a "g" rating. I am assuming
> it is the range of g's that make the switch cut off. Does anyone know
> the g's you ecounter in an accident?
It all depends on where you are concerned with reacting to the impact,
or more precisely, where on the vehicle the sensor was intended to be
mounted. I don't recall the exact G ratings, but the airbag sensors I
once worked with were designed with various ratings, some for just a
couple of G's and others needing perhaps 10-12Gs to fire. A sensor with
a high G rating would be intended to be located out by the radiator, for
instance, since the idea was to only fire the airbags if the collision
was bad enough that the airbags would be needed. Since there is
considerable crush zone between the rad and passenger compartment, this
sensor would only fire the airbags if the collision was severe enough
that the passenger compartment would not be sufficiently decelerated
through the crush zone deformation. A sensor located at the firewall
might only require a few Gs to trip.
The inertia switch I got from EV Parts looked just like the one in my
'97 Escort, which was located near the fuseblock in the driver's
footwell, *not* by the fuel tank. I am comfortable using this switch on
the firewall of my EV since it is likely to trip under similar
conditions as it was intended to. I would not use a switch removed from
a fuel tank location on the firewall of an EV, but it would probably
work fine if located in that general area of the EV.
If you pull the inertia switch yourself at a junkyard, make note of the
orientation of the switch in the original vehicle and try to duplicate
it when installed in the EV. You don't want it to be dropping out power
when you go over potholes, etc. since you have to manually reset it each
time (and it probably isn't intended to last for very many switch
cycles...).
Cheers,
Roger.
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So after you hit something hard enough to activate the inertia switch, how
do you reset it?
If it auto resets itself type, then your ignition system needs to be wire in
a momentary holding circuit. The ignition on position sets ignition relay
and move to the start position if require to activated the main contactor
circuit. Releasing the ignition switch open both start and ignition circuit
to the relay which is held close by a extra relay contact that bypasses the
ignition on circuit.
To reset this relay, you need to shut off the ignition switch and back on
again.
Of course you knew that.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla emergency shutdown
> Just google interia switch and you'll find some stuff. The only
> problem is that the interia switches have a "g" rating. I am assuming
> it is the range of g's that make the switch cut off. Does anyone know
> the g's you ecounter in an accident?
>
> On 7/3/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > I think you could get one from any ford car. They are in the back by
> > the fuel tank. If you hit the car hard enough they shut the fuel pump
> > off.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Chip Gribben
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 14:40
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Zilla emergency shutdown
> >
> > How about an inertia switch?
> >
> > Ford has these on their cars, I think. You hit something it turns the
> > car off. I think the Tour de Sol cars had to have these but can't recall
> > and anyone get easily get one.
> >
> > I opened one up years ago. I think it had a ball bearing or something
> > inside that would release upon impact and strike a relay. It was mounted
> > under the dash on the firewall. It's all a 12 volt affair so it would be
> > just like any other relay in series with the key switch.
> >
> > I think it's on the Electric Ford Ranger, but I'm sure you can get them
> > somewhere.
> >
> > These folks are going overboard on the safety issue as far as an
> > emergency kill switch. Are they going to require the same thing on OEMs.
> >
> > Granted we do at NEDRA but even the gassers have to have an emergency
> > cut off switch on the back.
> >
> > Chip Gribben
> > NEDRA
> > http://www.nedra.com
> >
> >
> > On Jul 3, 2007, at 1:31 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> >
> > > From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date: July 3, 2007 1:23:12 PM EDT
> > > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: Zilla emergency shutdown
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Dave;
> > >
> > > Didn't the State want a Kill button OUTSIDE the damn car, like a Big
> > > Red Button in the BACK, OUTSIDE like the Nedra rules? That's wgat I
> > > thought that paper sez. The state is as clueless about EV's as I am
> > > with nuclear Fissin'! I sorta set my BIG fuseholder up in a positition
> >
> > > in my Jetta trunk , planning a steel Cam Over setup you could pull
> > > outside the car, right above where it sez; ":Led Sled"
> > > which would pop the 200 amp fuze out. If forced onto the issue? Not
> > > crazt about an obviously marked thing like that in public.CDOT didn't
> > > have that on any of their Forces from Solectria. CT DID have an
> > > intreaging program, in the DOT with a few EV's. Thats wHY the
> > > "Electric" tag is taken. I asked, was willing to actually PAY
> > > Corrupticut for ann Electric Tag.Maybe "Lectrik" or something like
> > > that? I'm too cheap to PAY for a specuial tag, it doesn't give me any
> > > better range? Does it?
> > >
> > > I like your plans to Kill the car. If UI were the inspecter??OK by
> > > me.Isn't there inertional type switch thingies in some gas rigs that
> > > kill THEM if hit?Or what turns on the Airbags?
> > >
> > > Of course the firepeople will probably want to hack up as many
> > > cables they can find, in a wreck? They LOVE to do that! So try to stay
> >
> > > consious, after the wreck, to protect yur investment<G> They CLIMBED
> > > all over Tony's Rabbit in Worchester during HIS fire.
> > > Christ! They coulda pushed the car to safer ground, unharmed!
> > > Punched out a window in his Isuzu pickup! Why? Because they COULD, to
> > > quote Tony.
> > >
> > > What do ya do? Tow the car over to DOT in Weathersfield?This must be
> > > an ongoing thing? I can't wait for the emmissions folks to hit me up
> > > for a test<g>! I hope that goes as smoothly as before with the
> > > Rabbit?? They never LOOKED at the car, took my word for it that it was
> >
> > > electric. Do I have a trusting voice??As a dedicated CT Taxpayer? No
> > > hassle, guy was very nice, we chatted close to an hour!
> > > Changed my VIN to electric powered, as they SHOULD for yur Porsche.
> > > VIN is how they go, if car was Born with a Diseasel or Gas engine
> > > THAT'S what it is in CT's archives, until ya hit the right guy!
> > >
> > > Good Luck
> > >
> > > Bob
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 8:08 AM
> > > Subject: Zilla emergency shutdown
> > >
> > >
> > >> I have to provide a means to shut down my car in an emergency. The
> > >> state wants me to provide a way for emergency personel to shut 'er
> > >> down if I run into a tree. The emergency people want to be sure that
> > >> the pack is positively disconnected, which means the contactors are
> > >> open. My preference is to interrupt the power at the 12 volt level so
> >
> > >> the controller will shut itself down. I have my eye on one of those
> > >> big red buttons you mash to kill things. I'd place it in a very
> > >> prominent location under the hood to give them the warm and fuzzies.
> > >> They can also just turn off the key in the ignition.
> > >>
> > >> Parameters:
> > >> 1 - protect the Zilla
> > >> 2 - sacrifice the contactors if need be
> > >> 3 - make sure the system shuts down and contactors open
> > >>
> > >> I have a very standard configuration with one exception. I have an
> > >> additional contactor on the negative side of the pack which is
> > >> energized when the key switch goes to the on position. I use the
> > >> start position to tell the Zilla to start up, and it decides when to
> > >> pull in the positive side contactor.
> > >>
> > >> 1. Can I use the kill switch to open the negative side contactor?
> > >> It will zorch the contactor if
> > >> it's carrying current, but will the Zilla suffer?
> > >>
> > >> 2. Should I interrupt the 12 volt directly to the Zilla pin 3, Key
> > >> Input (just like turning off the key)? What will happen if under
> > >> power?
> > >>
> > >> 3. Is there a specific connection on the Zilla for this purpose?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >>
> > >> Dave Cover
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > >> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/885 - Release Date:
> > >> 7/3/2007 10:02 AM
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Roland Wiench wrote:
> So after you hit something hard enough to activate the
> inertia switch, how do you reset it?
You must press the manual reset button on the switch itself. I've yet
to see an auto-resetting inertia switch and strongly suspect such a
beast doesn't exist as it would defeat the purpose.
For the benefit of those who haven't seen one of these before, EV Parts
has a picture of the one they sell:
<http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=987&product_id=1
327>
The white button on top pops up (slightly) when the switch trips; you
press it in to re-arm the switch. I haven't played with mine since
installing it in the EV, but as I recall you cannot trip the switch by
pulling up on the button.
Cheers,
Roger.
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