EV digest 6997

[Electric Vehicle Discussion List]

                            EV Digest 6997

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: ev1 scr drrives
        by "dbd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) White Zombie 11s in 07
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: how much dc to get about 450 v ac
        by "owen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) 11s in '07...Timing is Everything! (pt 1)
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Steel
        by "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Dessicant
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Steel, Back to the old Grind!
        by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: 11s in '07...Timing is Everything! (pt 1)
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: how much dc to get about 450 v ac
        by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
        by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Thanks EVDL 
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 13) Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
        by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Steel
        by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Steel
        by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Steel
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

--- Begin Message ---

Got any photos?
Contact me at my private email address and I'll try to help as I'm restoring
my own Bradley GT E

Don B. Davidson III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:07 PM
Subject: ev1 scr drrives


I have an original equipment  bradley ev1 drive + ge motor  but I don't have
any info that tells me where to hook up the speed control pot   and also
need to know  where the wires go to on the vechicle that are terminated on
the top of the motor controller , on the scar control  that has 2 rows of 10
screws on row marked  l  the other marked  r

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Hello to All,

I'm forwarding Tim's post to the EVDL, because for some reason, it didn't make it when he sent it directly:

Hello everyone,

After many hours of work on the car to get ready for
racing, Friday finally came. It had been raining off
and on all day with downpours in the afternoon. It

was starting to look like the anti-EV vortex was back. I arrived at Wayland's around 4:00 pm to find the shop full of cameras and crew interviewing Wayland. Between the weather and the distractions it wasn't looking good

for racing.

Marco Mongillo had arrived in his electric Fiat. We waited out in the rain for the cameras to stop rolling so we could load all the racing gear in the service truck. When the cameras stopped, we debated going to the track. With the occasional sun breaks and the dark clouds moving to the north though, we headed to the track.

We arrived at the track at around 6:00, the rain
had completely stopped, but the sky looked like it could
open up at anytime. John drove the service truck directly
to our charging area to connect the giant power
cable to the PIR transformer for charging while I drove
the Zombie to tech inspection. After the inspector's

quick look at the car, I was off to the charging area.

With a full charge, I pulled up to the water box
for the first burnout since the brush timing change. I
wasn't sure what to expect, and I was worried about

arcing or loss of some torque from the 5 more degree advancement of the motor. I eased into the go pedal,

the tires immediately spun up and turned into rolling
balls of white smoke. I thought to myself "Wow, the
car feels like it has more torque, the launch should
be interesting". I pulled up to the line next to a
new bright yellow Corvette. Yellow, yellow, yellow,"I

hope this thing goes straight when I hit this pedal" green, GO!

I stomped the pedal and the car launched perfectly, the front end came up just enough to get good weight distribution, but not far enough to loose any time or waste too much torque. The tires stuck to the track and catapulted the car in a perfectly straight line. I thought "oh, here comes the 1/8th mile mark, time for the motor to quit pulling so hard", but it never stopped pulling. This was a whole new car, the batteries were still cold and the brushes

were barely broken in. I saw the Corvette coming up in the mirror,
but it was too late I had already crossed the finish
line nearly a full second in front of him. I pulled
up to the shack to grab my time slip, oh, 12.4 @ 101
not bad for the first run.

With another cycle on the mighty Enersys/Hawker
batteries, I was ready for a second run against the
Corvette (this time with his traction control on). A
second effortless tire boiling burnout and up to the
line again. I smashed the pedal, again a very
controllable almost gentle launch (very gentle
compared to how the car use to launch). The Corvette was
getting smaller and smaller, it was another nearly
perfect run, no tire spin, no aggressive sideways
launch, no arching or vibration, just a smooth
100+ mph cruise down the track. I checked the time slip,
12.14 @ 107! Wayland and I had been a little concerned with
the brush timing, but it seams to have dramatically
increased performance at both the beginning and end
of the track. I can't wait to see what the next run
will be!

Charged a third time and just starting to get
warm, these batteries were laughing at the 500 amps we are

pulling from each of them for the 12 seconds. I pull up to the line next to a pretty hot looking BMW M3. This might be the 11 second run. I hit the pedal expecting the now warm batteries to pull the front end up a little more, but the Zombie just kept it's head down, stuck to the track and shot down the track with a quick time of 12.03 @??? (Wayland is more protective of the time slips than he is the car, I only get to look at them when I pick the up at the timing booth, then I never see them again.) Damn, this is going to be another one of those nights, the track is getting cold and the rain looks close, 12.03 is almost as close as you can get to

the elevens without touching them.

We immediately got the car on charge to hopefully get
in another run or two. After a quick charge, I lined
back up with the BMW, this time with his traction control
on (this seams to be a common excuse). This is it,
the car will either break the 11s on explode. White Zombie
launched hard, but still very controlled, no
explosion yet, we passed 1/8 mile, still no failures! At this
point the BMW was just a speck in the mirror, Now I
can see the finish line, the car still feels great,
I can't hear any arcing, I can't smell any burning,
I'm still going straight, is this it? I flew through the
finish line with an 11.94 (YES 11.94, finally).
After being so close so many times, the elusive 11s are now
ours! It's amazing how many hours $$$$ and ideas it

takes to shave off that .15 seconds! After a lot of celebrating in the pits Wayland was ready to leave the track (I know, I'm not sure where this voice came from, the Wayland I know doesn't have a "voice of reason" um, we blow things up, so you don't have to???) It took some convincing from some fans, but he agreed to let me have one more run.

Without a second thought I jumped in the car and
hauled ass to the starting line before he could
change his mind. I pulled up to the line and looked over
the see a 64 Pontiac Tempest with huge drag tires in the
rear, with a huge 455 under the hood. Oh great, I line
up against the one car here that will smoke the little
battery powered Datsun, oh well, it should be
another 11. I hit the pedal (a little too early, red light
-0.03 too early) I expect this roaring monster to
fly by me at a million miles an hour, but to my surprise
he stays just close enough behind me to rattle my
teeth with his big block screaming to keep up. The
Zombie flew through the traps at another impressive
11.96 at 110 something!

I have to thank Jim Husted for not detuning the
motor while he had it back in his possession, so he
wouldn't have to worry about us blowing it up. Jim, I
know how hard it is for you, to work so hard so we can try
our hardest to break it ; )

Tim

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

where do i find a dc motor at that hp

----- Original Message ----- From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: how much dc to get about 450 v ac

Hello Owen,

110kw/746 = 147.45 hp.

At 90% output = 133.705 hp.

According to my motor handbook:

A 3 phase motor of about 150 hp on 230 volts requires 400 amp per phase which is 120 degrees apart.

A DC motor at 150 hp requires:

506 amps at 240 volts
246 amps at 500 volts
222 amps at 550 volts

Requires a 3.5 inch conduit for two conductors of DC
Requires a 4.0 inch conduit for three conductors of AC

A DC to AC inverter or call a cycloinverter for transforming DC to AC and AC to polyphase or 3 phase. This units requires many stages where one stage (a single ended inverter for transforming DC to AC) which may cost as much as $10,000.00 per stage.

Roland

----- Original Message ----- From: "owen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "ev info" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 4:44 AM
Subject: how much dc to get about 450 v ac


hi to all

I found a 110kw ac 3 phase motor and I would like to know much dc is needed to run it and if there is an efficient way to convert it to ac

thank you all love reading your email's and I am learning a lot

Owen

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Hello to All,

As usual, there's a Wayland story here, so go get that cup of coffee and maybe a nice cinnamon melt, kick off those shoes, relax, and enjoy!

All I can say, is WOW! Finally, we've broken into the 11s that have eluded us for now for the past two years....and yes, we drove it to and from the track! As Rod Wilde posted, Tim Brehm drove White Zombie into the 11s twice, with the fourth run the best ET at 11.948 @ 109.75 mph, and the fifth and final run an 11.60 @ 110.14 mph. Remember when we were trying to be the first street legal EV to crack 100 mph in the 1/4 mile? Geesh, now we're flying up to 110 mph!

A very grateful thank you goes out to all my friends and sponsors who have never wavered in their support and who have stood behind me in this quest to have White Zombie become the first fully street legal electric sedan to run 11s in the 1/4 mile (per NEDRA and the NHRA). Without the generous help from Tim Brehm, Dick Brown, Otmar Ebenhoech, Rich Rudman, Marko Mongillo, Jim Husted, The Dutchman, and many others (names listed in random order, please forgive me if your name is omitted), this achievement could not have been possible. Our main sponsor of course, is Enersys, and they've been great supporters of our electric drag racing efforts. The little Genesis model batteries cranked out the power without a hitch on Friday. We took a conservative approach and left the battery current limit set at 1000 amps, even though we can pull as much as 1500 amps from the pack...and we still broke into the 11s :-)

White Zombie is not the first full bodied EV to run 11s...that honor stays with my former arch rival and now good friend Rod Wilde. Rod was the very first EVer to build and race a street bodied EV (Maniac Mazda, so named by me) into the 11s...deep into the 11s, way back in '99 when the most EV racers were thrilled to get into the 14s and Zombie's best ET was a 13.4! Maniac Mazda was an MC (modified conversion) class racer and it was not set up to run in the street legal class. As such, it set its records with the extreme traction provided by non-DOT rated track-only big wrinkle wall drag slicks with wheelie bars to keep it from lift-off, and it was lightened with hollowed out doors, thin composite replacement windows, a gutted interior, lightened bumpers, etc. And of course, it 'did' have those outrageously powerful TMF batteries (close to today's lithium Ion batteries in instantaneous high current power delivery). That said, with a tire swap, the wheelie bars removed, regular glass put back in, and a few other changes to return it to street legal status (Pro Street wasn't conceived yet) it would have more than likely, still been in the mid 11s with the TMF batteries...glad he didn't do that, so that eight years later I can claim to have the record for the quickest street legal electric sedan on the planet :-)

Before the limited production short-lived TMF cells made their debut at the track, back when Maniac Mazda was powered by more traditional Hawker lead acid batteries in 1998, Rod pushed it to an impressive low 12 second ET that still stands as an MC/A record. Nine long years later, White Zombie's backup run to its new world record of 11.948 @ 109.75 mph from Friday night is fun to compare. Though the cars are in different racing classes, both cars' performance stats while both running on Hawker batteries (now called Enersys) are remarkably similar....Zombie's 11.96 @ 110.14 mph run... Maniac Mazda's 12.07 @ 110.13 mph run. Wow! Only 11 one hundredths of a second apart...only 1 one hundredths mph apart! It only took me nine years to catch him! Even though Rod's machine hasn't seen the track in a long time, Maniac Mazda is still the poster child for those new to EVs, to look at in awe and wonder. So thank you Rod, because as I savor this moment of breaking into the 11s, credit must be given where credit is due. My hat's off to Rod for his great accomplishment with a street bodied car, so long ago!

Special note: We may have awoken a sleeping giant by breaking into the 11s with White Zombie, as rumor has it that Maniac Mazda may return to action soon. It's beginning to feel like 1997 all over again!

OK, on with the story.....Friday night's successful electric drag racing was definitely a fairy tale, from start to finish!!!!

It really all began back in March when for the first time, Tim and I tried out the new pack of 60 small Enersys 14 lb. high current 12V lead acid batteries (2 X 360V) at PIR in a rare break of dry weather when the track had just opened for the 2007 season. We were immediately impressed with the BIG increase in power (as promised by Enersys) over the previous year's pack of 30 larger batteries. Even though the new pack added 100+ lbs. of heft to White Zombie and pushed its curb weight up to 2580 lbs., the car was definitely quicker. In 2006 we had changed-out the 2005 version's heavily abused 348V pack for a fresh set of the same batteries (one more battery added to bring the car up to 360V) but we were disappointed that we were never able to match the Zombie's best ET of 12.151 @ 106.25 mph established back in 2005. We never got any runs lower than a 12.3-something and the trap speed never broke over 104 mph...the best ET we netted in 2006 was a 12.308 @ 104.2 mph.

Back to March of this year...the first time we hit the throttle, we knew there was a lot more power coming from the twin packs of the smaller batteries. Here's what I wrote about that:

>...the car had a new attitude and with its new pack the very first run down the track netted a quick 12.646 @ 98.69 mph. Such a quick >time on cold and not-yet-broken-in batteries was quite a surprise.

That 12.6 ET was the quickest time the car had ever turned on the first run of the day, and it indicated that the new twin pack setup was a change for the better. White Zombie continued to get quicker with each run and got tantalizingly close, to within a scant one tenth of a second, of the 12.151 ET benchmark from 2005, with a strong 12.161 @ 106.50 mph run. Then, on the next (and last) run that we all thought was 'surely' going to be that elusive 11 second pass, we had that 'we blow things up, so you don't have to' moment:

>at about the 2/3 mark, White Zombie lit up the track with a fireball...this, on a sunny afternoon! Tim got out of it and coasted the final >1/3 across the finish line, with a trap speed 13 mph slower at just 94.18 mph. After coasting so far, the ET was still 12.256!

Yes, this was a huge disappointment for us :-( We had once again, flirted with the 11s only to have our hopes doused by a motor failure. Tim reported that during the fireball incident it felt like the armatures might have been cogging or slipping on the motor shaft, or that maybe the output splines of the shaft had twisted within the slip-on driveshaft yoke, but I thought the effect he was he was describing was more than likely the monstrous plug-braking effect from the motor being shorted by an arc between opposing brush poles. I knew that under the care of motor expert and team Plasma Boy member Jim Husted, it could be rebuilt and made well again, but I also knew that with newfound battery pack power reducing voltage sag at the far end of the track, that my old nemesis 'the fireball monster' - total mayhem within the motor from a high voltage arc - had returned and that something needed to be changed. That change was motor timing, I 'thought' it then, and I certainly know it now!

On with the story...In early May I was contacted by OPB (Oregon Public Broadcasting) as they were interested in doing a feature about Team Plasma Boy and our adventures racing against and beating powerful gasoline fueled muscle cars and hot tuner imports with our electric car at the drag strip. At around the same time we were also contacted by the Wall Street Journal's John Fialka who's been with them now, 25 years. John too, was interested in coming out west to discuss the birth of NEDRA and the whole EV hotrod scene, and he was especially interested in the David vs Goliath thing between little 'ol White Zombie and the classic big block muscle cars we often go head to head with. John also wanted to take in some real drag racing action at the PIR drag strip. I did not want to schedule any stressed-out full bore 1/4 mile runs with the car, too close to the Wayland Invitational III races for obvious reasons...breaking it badly and making it inoperable for a race with my namesake would no be good. Breaking it badly and making it inoperable to the point where I'd miss the opportunity to run with Bill Dube's spare lithium pack would be a colossal blunder! Because the car was still down from the March incident, and considering the calendar of EVents scheduled including the big June 23rd SEVA 'Gasless on Greenwood' car show I had committed ourselves (and White Zombie) to, I told these press people that the car would be back on the track in hopefully, early June. Any failure modes in early June would still give us enough time to rebuild and be ready for the July 13th Wayland Invitational III races.

On 5-23-07 I wrote:

>Before pulling White Zombie's injured motor last Saturday (now in Jim's loving hands)...

Yeah, it took nearly two months to find the time and the spirit to pull the damaged motor...work, family matters, and life in general affecting both Tim and I took priority after the March racing, but eventually the Siamese 8 motor was pulled and delivered to Jim Husted's Hi Torque Electric motor shop to be renewed and remade into a power plant that could better hold up to the extremes we've been putting it through. This would be accomplished by Jim's expert fabrication skills and my directing him to twist the brush timing at both motor sections from 10 degrees to 15 degrees total advance.

On 6-7-07 I had written:

>Mods to the Siamese 8 are coming along nicely. The big change is my decision to go from 10 degrees advance to 15 degrees for more >top end hp and much greater arc-fighting capability.

Because I waited so long to get the motor to Jim, by the time I 'did' get it over to him in mid May, he was in the middle of a heavy work load and so progress was slow on the motor. As it was with Tim and I, work, family matters, and life in general had Jim pretty well booked, so my estimate of early June of having the car back together came and went. Calls were made to all the press people and dates were refigured to later in the month...and I began to get real nervous about everything!

While the Siamese 8 was under the knife, Jim also replaced the heavy duty Husted-made inter-brush stranded/insulated wire conductors with even heavier duty dual semi-circle solid copper bus bars insulated and hand-wrapped just so, to give the 2000 motor amp current the best chance of getting into the armatures. Attention was also paid to clearances and the placement of all the conductive parts inside all areas of the brush end bells. The twin armature-long shaft affair was pressed apart, and each armature inspected, electrically tested, cleaned, re-dipped and baked, pressed back together with a new center bearing, and then sent-out and professionally balanced at high rpm.

Back to the time line...

June in Portland is a month that never seems to know what kind of weather it wants...it's almost as crazy as our Spring weather. In June, one is lured outside wearing sandals and shorts by oftentimes 85-90 degree hot days and the feel that Summer is here...only to be then blasted by 50 degree days darkened by foreboding grey clouds and pounded by in-and-out thunderstorm downpours. June is Rose Festival time in our 'city of roses', time to coronate the queen of Rosearia (always from a high school, always pretty and blushing with pride), time for Rose Cup Races, Cart Races, dragon boat races, and of course, the Grand Floral Parade and the Starlight Parade. Each year in June, we Portlanders cringe, wring our hands, and worry about 'the weather'. Will it be hot and sunny, or will it be cold and rain-soaked? We never, ever know what we'll get! This year, it was hot and sunny all week up until the Grand Floral Parade, the biggest event of the festival...then right on cue on the day of the parade (and only that day) it rained all day! Of course, the big parade and all the festivities went ahead anyway...it takes a lot more than rain to get us web-footed Oregonians down.

With this backdrop of never-knowing-what-you'll-get-weather, I was pretty nervous about having a writer fly out from Washington DC and a producer/film crew setting aside precious 'camera time'. After already canceling plans for any early June runs at the track, the new date for racing was either going to be Friday June 22th or if we got rained-out, Saturday the 23rd. White Zombie also needed to be up in Seattle (180 miles north of Portland) very early Saturday June 23rd for the 'Gasless on Greenwood car show....and the car was still torn down, still minus its motor! As if that wasn't bad enough, I was sent out on another service call took me up and over the Cascade mountains to the Central Oregon Bend area again on Wednesday the 21st of June. This took me 160 miles away from doing prep work on the car, but it also positioned me in Jim's neck of the woods 'just in case' all the planets lined up and the armature balancing guys actually got the twin armature /shaft affair balanced...it was taking a lot more time than they said it would.

The 10 day weather trend showed it was going to be sunny and dry...then 4 days before John Fialka of the Wall Street Journal was to fly out, right on schedule the forecast was changed to rain for both Friday and Saturday...with of course, sunshine returning 'after' the racing weekend! We once again, aborted the plans at the last minute. I was actually relieved about this, because White Zombie's motor work was still not done! We then penciled-in the following Friday, June 29th as the night for drag racing and had Saturday planned as a back up day, just in case of 'weather' again. With the drag racing canceled for Friday night, June 22nd, the pressure was off a little in regards to trying to do both a late Friday night's racing, and, driving three hours getting the car up to Seattle for the following Saturday morning at 6:00 am...whew! Still, a lot of people were counting on my pulling through with everything and things seemed to be getting worse.

Finally, something went right and when while I was in Central Oregon, I got the call from Jim that the balancer guys had finished the job. With the guts of the Siamese 8 back in Jim's possession, the motor could be reassembled. As a last item to be done, a more intense color of purple was applied to the motor's frame/field bodies to add a little more eye candy as well :-) After reassembly, Jim then hand-timed the two motor sections. One end was fixed at 15 degrees total advance, and the other was made adjustable so it could be tweaked to match the other exactly by syncing-up the volts, amps, and rpm of each motor section to one another, per our 'intense' discussions. It worked out great that I was right down the road from Jim's shop with my 'haul anything' work service truck, so I simply picked up the motor on my way back home on Thursday, June 22nd...just in time!

On 6-22-07 I wrote:

>...back into the Portland area (from central Oregon) right on schedule at 5:35 pm...no AC in 86 degree weather kind of poops you out. I >never even got out of my work uniform and just kept on doing 'wrenching stuff' when Tim and another helper, Kevin, showed up...It >took us until 8:30 pm to get the Zombie's heart beating again.

After a very long work day that continued into a work night, White Zombie was back together Thursday evening! I took it out for its maiden voyage with the newly rebuilt, more aggressively timed motor. I always love the smell of breaking in a Husted-made motor...the warming up of the redipped armatures, the fresh coatings inside, the new insulation wraps, and the new frame paint all have that new car smell. It's especially intoxicating when you lift the hood after the Siamese 8 has been brought up to temperature. The car drove completely different to me. No, I didn't put the hammer down at all, rather, I just took it easy. I 'did' give it a little throttle a few times though, and the attitude was one of a car wanting to rush up to speed with effortless ease...it felt very promising.

Back at the Wayland EV Juice bar, Tim had his Dodge truck and the trailer ready for load-up, as the the next day, Friday, we were scheduled to travel north to have the car in the weekend Seattle car show. We got it loaded up and secured, and with that, White Zombie was whisked away in the night to Tim's place. Because of my heavy out-of-town work week schedule I had racked up a lot of OT, so I only worked a few hours on Friday. I got home early, packed my stuff into the Insight, and headed north to Seattle. Tim would leave after work and meet up with me in the early AM in the park near the car show where the SEVA gang traditionally meets before we parade the EVs into the greenwood car show. Saturday's show went well, and a good time was had by all.

The next week was sunny and hot again with the weekend (June 29-30) forecasted to be dry, and once again, Mr. Fialka's travel plans had been arranged. We decided to make it a two day thing, so as to have a second backup day in case of a rain-out on Friday. I was able to take the car out a few times during the week for long drives to help seat the brushes. On one of the first drives, I stabbed the pedal down a bit to see how the acceleration would be, and smelled a not-so-good electrical burning smell. I had hoped it was only the fact that the brushes weren't seated yet and that 2000 motor amps was simply giving them a hard time. I checked the motor out very carefully after I returned home, and to my pleasant surprise found absolutely no visible damage or burn marks anywhere. I was relieved but also a little upset with myself for not having the self control to allow the brushes to break in before hitting the hammer a bit. Subsequent runs on the streets with the car went smoothly with no bad smells and no problems to report other than a bit of a lower frequency vibration that seemed to improve as road speed was increased.

Sometimes I think the gods of weather are scheming against me, as the day before Mr. Fialka was to fly into Portland, the Friday forecast was again updated to include thunderstorms and heavy on-and-off rains, with Saturday being the turn-around day where sunshine would return. Great....Friday looked to be a bust, and Tim Brehm would be unavailable for driving on Saturday, as it was his 11 year old daughter's big birthday bash that included daddy driving the family south of Portland and away from anything to do with racing.

Friday morning arrived with overcast skies and unfriendly temperatures. As I'm thinking about John Fialka flying across the country only to land in rainy Portland, my stomach ached and I felt as Jim Husted must feel when he gets his panties in a bunch over what I might do to the Siamese 8! When I thought of how I had to then tell him there'd be no Tim Brehm to drive the car on Saturday, my stomach twisted some more. Then, I thought about the OPB crew about to show up at around the same time as Fialka with all their media gear in tow. I wondered about how in the world I'd split myself in two so I could be interviewed by the Wall Street Journal and filmed by OPB at the same time without dissing one or both at the same time....this was not turning out so good :-( Icing on the cake....Tim was stuck at work a bit longer than we had planned and would not be at my place until maybe an hour after the media folks were to arrive....great! Want more? My front lawn is already a piece of crap, but it at least looks 'OK' when I mow-down the dandelions. I got home from work early to prepare for my guests, and as I went out to get the B&D cordless mower, a thunderhead pulled up right over my house and soaked the lawn for a half hour or so....nice! So here I was with a home looking like white trash lived there (dandelions wafting in the breeze), horrible weather taunting me to dare take my car to the track, and guests arriving thinking they were going to get great EV racing to film and write about. It was all starting to look bad.

To be continued...

See Ya...John Wayland

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 Well here is the deal.. I need to cut the shaft off my electric motor so my
adaptor will fit.. So I go down to the local hardware store and buy a metal
colbolt  blade for my saw saw.. 
Place the blade on the shaft where I want to cut it and . 20sce latter all
the teeth on the blade are gone  and the shaft is barely scratched..

Now this is a aircraft starter motor if that help answer this.. Now what do
I need to cut this thing off??



 
 

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--- Begin Message ---

Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> Aren't all of the circuit boards conformally coated?


Unfortunately, no. The Curtis controllers, Iota DC/DC converters, Rudman
regulators etc. that so many people use are not conformally coated. They
are built exactly like typical indoor consumer electronics, for use in
dry, clean, room-temperature environments. No conformal coating, no
waterproofing, the lowest grade 0-70 deg.C parts, etc.

-- 
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

----- Original Message ----- From: "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 9:16 AM
Subject: Steel

Well here is the deal.. I need to cut the shaft off my electric motor so my adaptor will fit.. So I go down to the local hardware store and buy a metal

colbolt  blade for my saw saw..
Place the blade on the shaft where I want to cut it and . 20sce latter all
the teeth on the blade are gone  and the shaft is barely scratched..

Cheezy Chinezy hacksaw blade!?You may have to GRIND it off with a carborundom wheel, got a 7" grinder?Or go to Wal*mart and just BUY one. Seems the market is FLOODED with cheezy Chinezy hand grinders!About a 3 inch disc wheel, for about 13-18 bux.They go like Hell! Get to hot to hold in about 5 minutes, So you would have to take your time grinding through the shaft. Running the motor while you grind will give ya a nice cleen cut.Maybe, if the shaft is only surface hardened, then you could hacksaw it after grinding through the case hardening?Go easy and the grinder MIGHT live for another job<g>!

 Good Luck

Bob
--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Hello to All,

OOoopps!

About the record 11.948 @ 109.75 mph run's back up run, I mistakingly wrote:

...and the fifth and final run an 11.60 @ 110.14 mph.

Man, sorry for the screw-up. It was very early AM as I checked my post before sending it out, evidently the cobwebs weren't quite cleared out yet. That last run was 'not' an 11.6 (I wish) but an 11.960...looks like I somehow deleted the 9 before it. At least I had the mph

correct :-)

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

http://www.reliance.com/prodserv/motgen/motinfcnt.htm


--- owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> where do i find a dc motor at that hp
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 1:01 AM
> Subject: Re: how much dc to get about 450 v ac
> 
> 
> > Hello Owen,
> >
> > 110kw/746 = 147.45 hp.
> >
> > At 90% output = 133.705 hp.
> >
> > According to my motor handbook:
> >
> > A 3 phase motor of about 150 hp on 230 volts
> requires 400 amp per phase 
> > which is 120 degrees apart.
> >
> > A DC motor at 150 hp requires:
> >
> > 506 amps at 240 volts
> > 246 amps at 500 volts
> > 222 amps at 550 volts
> >
> > Requires a 3.5 inch conduit for two conductors of
> DC
> > Requires a 4.0 inch conduit for three conductors
> of AC
> >
> > A DC to AC inverter or call a cycloinverter for
> transforming  DC to AC and 
> > AC to polyphase or 3 phase.  This units requires
> many stages where one 
> > stage (a single ended inverter for transforming DC
> to AC) which may cost 
> > as much as $10,000.00 per stage.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "owen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "ev info" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 4:44 AM
> > Subject: how much dc to get about 450 v ac
> >
> >
> > hi to all
> > I found a 110kw ac 3 phase motor and I would like
> to know much dc is 
> > needed to run it and if there is an efficient way
> to convert it to ac
> > thank you all love reading your email's and I am
> learning a lot
> > Owen 
> 
> 



       
____________________________________________________________________________________Ready
 for the edge of your seat? 
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 
http://tv.yahoo.com/

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message --- Where did you get this idea? I'm an electrical contractor, have been burying wire for years, and never heard of such a thing! There are losses, yes but they are caused by the resistance of the wire, not the earth!

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

----- Original Message ----- From: "patrick DonEgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy

Well, what about the capacitance of the Earth (aka dirt)???

I know when you bury electrical cables, you lose power.


On 7/5/07, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

If you do bury batteries underground, they should remain at a constant
57F.  This would keep the batteries from overheating, but you wouldn't
get the full capacity achievable at 70-80F.

My 2 Wh,

Brandon Kruger
http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
http://cafepress.com/altfuel

On 7/5/07, patrick DonEgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 7/5/07, Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >

> > I'll start off with a grid-tie system but evenually I want an > > interrupt > > breaker that will divert PV output from the static inverter to a > > "battery > > bunker" I'm going to bury in the backyard. That way, if the grid goes > > down,

> > I'll have batteries to run things for a little while.
>
>

> If you bury the batteries, will the earth soak up a percentage of your > energy?

>
>


--

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

I just wanted to take a moment to thank the EVDL administrator, David
Roden for going out of his way to help me with email issues. I have a
school outlook account but over the summer I am home and have to use
Express. It doesn't let me send plain text and my work blocks most other
online mail accounts. It also blocks discussion forums (I like the email
format now :) I have passed up many questions and thread because I didn't
want to be that guy with the truncated messages. I asked David if there
was any way he could forward a few questions in plain text for me. He went
above and beyond by setting me up with a personal account that isn't
blocked. I want to let anyone else know who might be in the same
predicament as me that chances are something can be worked out. I can now
post and gleen as much information from the list as I can now.

I don't mean to start a discussion with this post or suck up to anyone,
its just a relief to finally have a voice.
Thanks again,
Paul

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

I always thought that sitting batteries on a concrete garage floor would
suck out the charge. If it were true, wouldn't direct contact with the
ground do the same? You could put them on a pallet underground but is the
concrete myth even true?
Thanks,
Paul

> Where did you get this idea? I'm an electrical contractor, have been
> burying
> wire for years, and never heard of such a thing! There are losses, yes but
> they are caused by the resistance of the wire, not the earth!
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrick DonEgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:26 PM
> Subject: Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
>
>
>> Well, what about the capacitance of the Earth (aka dirt)???
>>
>> I know when you bury electrical cables, you lose power.
>>
>>
>> On 7/5/07, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> If you do bury batteries underground, they should remain at a constant
>>> 57F.  This would keep the batteries from overheating, but you wouldn't
>>> get the full capacity achievable at 70-80F.
>>>
>>> My 2 Wh,
>>>
>>> Brandon Kruger
>>> http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
>>> http://cafepress.com/altfuel
>>>
>>> On 7/5/07, patrick DonEgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> > On 7/5/07, Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > I'll start off with a grid-tie system but evenually I want an
>>> > > interrupt
>>> > > breaker that will divert PV output from the static inverter to a
>>> > > "battery
>>> > > bunker" I'm going to bury in the backyard. That way, if the grid
>>> goes
>>> > > down,
>>> > > I'll have batteries to run things for a little while.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > If you bury the batteries, will the earth soak up a percentage of
>>> your
>>> > energy?
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

The thing with concrete is that it tends to be cold.  Cold batteries
aren't very happy.  Also, those are probably sitting on the concrete
without a charger connected.  Lead acid batteries that sit at less
than 80%SOC for very long  (in as little as a week) start to get
sulphation -- the sulphate crystals cover up parts of the plates, and
you effectively have less active plate area forevermore -- less
capacity and more voltage sag under discharge.   I don't think that
the concrete actually sucks energy out -- it's just sitting in a cold
place while not being charged that's bad for them.

Z

On 7/6/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I always thought that sitting batteries on a concrete garage floor would
suck out the charge. If it were true, wouldn't direct contact with the
ground do the same? You could put them on a pallet underground but is the
concrete myth even true?
Thanks,
Paul

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Hello to All,

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I always thought that sitting batteries on a concrete garage floor would
suck out the charge. If it were true, wouldn't direct contact with the
ground do the same?...but is the
concrete myth even true?

I'll take this one on.

No, it's not true at all. Through the automotive ages, when a guy works on his car (in the garage) and he has to remove the battery, does he pick up the heavy thing, lift it high and put it on a flimsy shelf where it can break the shelf or fall off of it? Or, does he do the normal common sense thing of hefting it out of the car and lowering it onto the floor? Of course, he puts it on the floor, which in most garages, is made of concrete. The only thing that 'sucks' the power out of the battery, is the act of leaving it out of the car for many months at time uncharged to slowly sulfate itself to death. It would do the same thing if it were sitting in the living room on a coffee table along with Harper's Bazaar. In fact, the concrete floor 'may' actually help keep the battery alive longer than a shelf or the coffee table would, because it is usually ground temperature and thus, cooler, which is better for storing a battery for a long period of time.

I hear this old myth 100s of times a year, I swear. Maybe we should send this in to Myth Busters?

See Ya

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message --- You need a 4 1/2" angle grinder like this one. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=31309

Or better yet: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44829. Take your time. Buy extra discs. Works like a charm.

Lon Hull,
Portland, OR

----- Original Message ----- From: "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 6:16 AM
Subject: Steel

Well here is the deal.. I need to cut the shaft off my electric motor so my adaptor will fit.. So I go down to the local hardware store and buy a metal

colbolt  blade for my saw saw..
Place the blade on the shaft where I want to cut it and . 20sce latter all
the teeth on the blade are gone  and the shaft is barely scratched..

Now this is a aircraft starter motor if that help answer this.. Now what do

I need to cut this thing off??

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Yeah, angle grinders are almost the coolest tool there is for
modifying cars, especially if there's any rust involved, second only
to wirefeed welders.   Sawzalls are up there pretty high too though.

On 7/6/07, Loni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

You need a 4 1/2" angle grinder like this one.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=31309

Or better yet:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44829. Take
your time. Buy extra discs. Works like a charm.

Lon Hull,
Portland, OR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 6:16 AM
Subject: Steel


>
> Well here is the deal.. I need to cut the shaft off my electric motor so
> my
> adaptor will fit.. So I go down to the local hardware store and buy a
> metal
> colbolt  blade for my saw saw..
> Place the blade on the shaft where I want to cut it and . 20sce latter all
> the teeth on the blade are gone  and the shaft is barely scratched..
>
> Now this is a aircraft starter motor if that help answer this.. Now what
> do
> I need to cut this thing off??
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com

CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders

Quotable Quote

"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."

Wendell Berry

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Here is how to cut your motor shaft which I have done several times on motor 
shafts, couplers and extended motor shafts:

Get a 12 inch by 18 tooth blade by LENOX which is a bi-metal alloy type.  I 
normally use a little wider one than the 5/8 inch standard width type.  Also 
use a super heavy duty LENOX hack saw frame, that you can tighten the blade 
so hard, that it will make your eye balls pop out.

Next, go to a machine shop or bearing supply company to get two shaft 
couplers that fit the diameter of your motor shaft.  Set screw them on so 
you leave a crack for the hacksaw blade to go between.  This will give you a 
straight guide.

Also I use a Blade and Bit Cutting Lubricant call DriCote made by Bostik 
which you can get at the Tool Box or maybe from Home Depot.

Connect up a 12 volt source to a deep cycle battery which is also connected 
to a 12 volt 40 amp battery charger.  Use a battery switch to turn on the 
power to the motor.

Lubricant the shaft area and blade and hold the blade steady while the motor 
is turning.  You can mover the blade to different positions so it is not 
cutting on one spot.

Keep applying the lubricant about once a minute and before you know it the 
shaft will be cut in two.  It only took me about 5 minutes to do this job.

One time I try to cut a standard 2 inch diameter shaft with a 14 inch 
diameter cut off blade, (the very good black thin ones),  this blade worn 
down to about 8 inches and was only half way through, so that did not work.

After 5 years of usage, I am still using the LENOX blade which is made by 
the American Saw & Mfg. Company in East Longmeadow, Maine.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:16 AM
Subject: Steel


>
>  Well here is the deal.. I need to cut the shaft off my electric motor so 
> my
> adaptor will fit.. So I go down to the local hardware store and buy a 
> metal
> colbolt  blade for my saw saw..
> Place the blade on the shaft where I want to cut it and . 20sce latter all
> the teeth on the blade are gone  and the shaft is barely scratched..
>
> Now this is a aircraft starter motor if that help answer this.. Now what 
> do
> I need to cut this thing off??
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

--- End Message ---