EV Digest 6998
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Danaher Motion (Used to be Kollmorgen) Motors
by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: [Fwd: Re: Fiero conversions..?] - Vacuum noise
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Silencing those vacuum pumps (was: Fiero conversions..]
by Jim Waite <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Dessicant
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Steel
by "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Dessicant
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Steel
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Required Fire sticker for WA State
by "Roger Daisley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Silencing those vacuum pumps (was: Fiero conversions..]
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: [Fwd: Re: Fiero conversions..?] - Vacuum noise
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) temp sensor location
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Required Fire sticker for WA State
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Honda Fuel Cell - did I miss 20 years somewhere?
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Silencing those vacuum pumps (was: Fiero conversions..]
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Silencing those vacuum pumps
by Jim Waite <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Optimas Amp hrs vs time
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Silencing those vacuum pumps
by Jim Waite <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) and speaking of fuel cell dreams ... is the Volt necessarily tied into
fc's?
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Thanks EVDL
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Wheels and load
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Generator powered by vibrations was: Re: Free Energy
by Henry Heng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Generator powered by vibrations was: Re: Free Energy
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Another EV smile
by Jeff Mccabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Silencing those vacuum pumps (was: Fiero conversions..]
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Brush timing.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
by "patrick DonEgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have knowledge about this company? I've never seen their
products mentioned on the list. They have a large range of very compact and
powerful dc pancake motors. Thoughts?
http://www.danahermotion.com/documents/index.php?product_cat_id=87
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The MES-DEA pumps can be quieted significantly by playing with the air
exhaust port. A 1-2" piece of plastic tube jammed in the output hole works
- but it takes longer to pump down. A larger diameter tube with a sponge
type filter might work better.
And don't overtighten the mounting bolts. It kills the vibration mounting.
Ask me how I know :)
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 02:18:09 -0700, David Wilker
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I wonder if building a a vacuum chamber, and mounting the pump inside it
would help?
I mentioned that once before... It would be difficult to "suspend" the
pump in the vacuum chamber without transmitting vibration to the outside.
Them there's the intake/output port noise. The pump would quiet down as
the vacuum increased, but it would also lead to overheating. No heat
conduction in a vacuum.
Adrian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David & All,
--<you wrote>--
I wonder if building a vacuum chamber, and mounting the pump inside it
would help?
--<snip>--
DOH! Now why didn't I think of that!!!
If I still had Battcar, I'd sure as heck try stickin' that Gast pump
inside the PVC pipe *vacuum chamber* (IIRC 4" O.D.?) to see how it
worked....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Unfortunately, no. The Curtis controllers, Iota DC/DC converters, Rudman
>regulators etc. that so many people use are not conformally coated. They
>are built exactly like typical indoor consumer electronics, for use in
>dry, clean, room-temperature environments. No conformal coating, no
>waterproofing, the lowest grade 0-70 deg.C parts, etc.
A lot of underhood electronic modules are not conformally coated,
either. Parts are rated -40 to +125 deg.C. The board is then enclosed
in a rather carefully engineered, watertight, air-breathing
enclosure. My Bosch ME7.5 controller is like that, and most controllers
from GM built after 1998 are done that way. We do our boards that
way as well. Some controllers use a carefully designed harness to
act as the pressure equalizer, some controllers use the Gore-Tex
breather I mentioned in an earlier post on this topic.
SAE J1211 (cars) and SAE J1455 indicate what performance level
should be expected of under-hood electronics.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Yeah, angle grinders are almost the coolest tool there is for
> modifying cars, especially if there's any rust involved, second only
> to wirefeed welders. Sawzalls are up there pretty high too though.
That link showed it with a grinding disc - you'll probably want cutoff
discs. If I had it my way, I'd have three of these - one each with
sanding, grinding and cutting discs. Definitely #1 tool to have for
metal. Most fun was sawzall with 12" metal blade to cut car in half.
Almost too easy (although putting it back together takes a while).
gary
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm. Guess I shouldn't be using the pressure washer on my ICE engine
then, huh :) On my subaru, the ECU is under the dash, not under the
hood. But I've also driven through water deep enough that it flooded
my feet -- getting up towards the dash.....
Z
On 7/6/07, Dale Ulan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Unfortunately, no. The Curtis controllers, Iota DC/DC converters, Rudman
>regulators etc. that so many people use are not conformally coated. They
>are built exactly like typical indoor consumer electronics, for use in
>dry, clean, room-temperature environments. No conformal coating, no
>waterproofing, the lowest grade 0-70 deg.C parts, etc.
A lot of underhood electronic modules are not conformally coated,
either. Parts are rated -40 to +125 deg.C. The board is then enclosed
in a rather carefully engineered, watertight, air-breathing
enclosure. My Bosch ME7.5 controller is like that, and most controllers
from GM built after 1998 are done that way. We do our boards that
way as well. Some controllers use a carefully designed harness to
act as the pressure equalizer, some controllers use the Gore-Tex
breather I mentioned in an earlier post on this topic.
SAE J1211 (cars) and SAE J1455 indicate what performance level
should be expected of under-hood electronics.
-Dale
--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com
CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders
Quotable Quote
"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."
Wendell Berry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most fun was sawzall with 12" metal blade to cut car in half.
Almost too easy (although putting it back together takes a while).
I did that with a car. Cut off the crunched front end just in front
of the struts, and did the same with one in the junkyard, then welded
the new front end back on. Fun, fun. Sawzalled the roof off a
school bus too, and welded it back on 14" higher up.
You forgot the angle grinder with the wire wheel on it. I'm amazed
how fast that can take loose rust down to shiny metal.
Z
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some place back in this group there was mention of a sticker (decal) that
Washington State required on alternative fuel vehicles. Try as I may, I
cannot locate that article in either the EV archives or the WA State DOL web
pages. Any reference would be appreciated.
Roger Daisley, Pullman, WA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 2007-07-06 at 10:07 -0700, Jim Waite wrote:
> Hi David & All,
>
> --<you wrote>--
> I wonder if building a vacuum chamber, and mounting the pump inside it
> would help?
> --<snip>--
>
> DOH! Now why didn't I think of that!!!
>
> If I still had Battcar, I'd sure as heck try stickin' that Gast pump
> inside the PVC pipe *vacuum chamber* (IIRC 4" O.D.?) to see how it
> worked....
Vacuum is an effective thermal insulator. My guess is that the vacuum
pump would quickly overheat and fail, with no air to cool it.
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The battery thing is an old urban legend.
I don't see how you can make the experiment burn or explode so its
Mythbusters appeal is sort of limited unless you get real creative.
A cable's current carrying capacity is limited by its heat dissipation
capabilities versus its resistance and its maximum insulation
temperature, so burying it, putting it in conduit, in a hot engine
compartment, or any configuration which lessens its ability to dissipate
heat will always reduce its capacity. However, no electricity is being
sucked away or lost here- this is just trying about to keep the
insulation from melting from the generated heat.
Danny
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I always thought that sitting batteries on a concrete garage floor would
suck out the charge. If it were true, wouldn't direct contact with the
ground do the same? You could put them on a pallet underground but is the
concrete myth even true?
Thanks,
Paul
Where did you get this idea? I'm an electrical contractor, have been
burying
wire for years, and never heard of such a thing! There are losses, yes but
they are caused by the resistance of the wire, not the earth!
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "patrick DonEgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
Well, what about the capacitance of the Earth (aka dirt)???
I know when you bury electrical cables, you lose power.
On 7/5/07, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you do bury batteries underground, they should remain at a constant
57F. This would keep the batteries from overheating, but you wouldn't
get the full capacity achievable at 70-80F.
My 2 Wh,
Brandon Kruger
http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
http://cafepress.com/altfuel
On 7/5/07, patrick DonEgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 7/5/07, Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'll start off with a grid-tie system but evenually I want an
interrupt
breaker that will divert PV output from the static inverter to a
"battery
bunker" I'm going to bury in the backyard. That way, if the grid
goes
down,
I'll have batteries to run things for a little while.
If you bury the batteries, will the earth soak up a percentage of
your
energy?
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On my GM pump I added an muffler on the exhaust. I used an emissions
air pump muffler of an old Ford Escort. It really quieted it
down. ON my current Thomas pup I have about f foot of irrigation
soaker hose as a muffller.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i want to put a temp sensor on an etek [DC pancake
perm-motor]. where is the best place to put an
external sensor? i plan on using a low tech [and free
for me] cooking thermometer.
also how much error would there be in measuring temp
externally? [e.g. the sensor reads 150F but it is
really 180F in the motor]
thanks again for the wisdom of the list
Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1221
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman
____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found this article on the internet regarding a
couple of battery myths:
http://www.inct.net/~autotips/battmyth.htm
Battery Myth #2 Storing a battery on a concrete
floor will discharge the battery.
There is not currently a strong reason for avoiding
contact of a battery with a concrete floor. The
battery's contact with the concrete should not create
a problem with the material in today' s batteries. If
the battery is not clean, but has a surface layer of
acid or grime which is conductive, the battery can be
expected to self-discharge more rapidly than if it was
clean and dry. Many years ago, the batteries were
constructed with a wooden case around a glass jar with
the battery in it. Any moisture on the floor could
cause the wood to swell and possibly fracture the
glass, causing it to leak. Shortly after the
introduction of "Hard Rubber" containers, which were
somewhat porous and of a less than ideal design, there
was a chance of current to be conducted through the
container of a high carbon content if the moist
concrete floor permitted the current to find an
electrical ground. These are two of the older reasons
for not storing batteries on a concrete floor. There
is no reference to avoiding storage on concrete floors
in the Battery Service Manual published by the BCI.
Their suggestion is appropriate for the current state
of the art batteries built by reputable battery
manufacturers. For more information on storage, see
the AutoTips Battery Storage Tips page.
( Thanks to Interstate Batteries for review and
contributions to this article! Check out their Battery
Care page for more information.)
--- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello to All,
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >I always thought that sitting batteries on a
> concrete garage floor would
> >suck out the charge. If it were true, wouldn't
> direct contact with the
> >ground do the same?...but is the
> >concrete myth even true?
> >
> >
>
> I'll take this one on.
>
> No, it's not true at all. Through the automotive
> ages, when a guy works
> on his car (in the garage) and he has to remove the
> battery, does he
> pick up the heavy thing, lift it high and put it on
> a flimsy shelf where
> it can break the shelf or fall off of it? Or, does
> he do the normal
> common sense thing of hefting it out of the car and
> lowering it onto the
> floor? Of course, he puts it on the floor, which in
> most garages, is
> made of concrete. The only thing that 'sucks' the
> power out of the
> battery, is the act of leaving it out of the car for
> many months at time
> uncharged to slowly sulfate itself to death. It
> would do the same thing
> if it were sitting in the living room on a coffee
> table along with
> Harper's Bazaar. In fact, the concrete floor 'may'
> actually help keep
> the battery alive longer than a shelf or the coffee
> table would, because
> it is usually ground temperature and thus, cooler,
> which is better for
> storing a battery for a long period of time.
>
> I hear this old myth 100s of times a year, I swear.
> Maybe we should send
> this in to Myth Busters?
>
> See Ya
>
>
M. Barkley
www.texomaev.com
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1135
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've never heard of the requirement or seen the sticker. That does not mean
it doesn't exist, but I too am in Washington and have been following this
list for about 7 years. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.
damon
From: "Roger Daisley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Required Fire sticker for WA State
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:15:49 -0700
Some place back in this group there was mention of a sticker (decal) that
Washington State required on alternative fuel vehicles. Try as I may, I
cannot locate that article in either the EV archives or the WA State DOL
web
pages. Any reference would be appreciated.
Roger Daisley, Pullman, WA
_________________________________________________________________
http://liveearth.msn.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
in response to
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 1:56 AM
Subject: RE: Honda Fuel Cell - did I miss 20 years somewhere?
Again, I read on the list that some did not get this message,
while I received below in perfect order....
Weird.
: thanks, I haven't changed my email settings since I've sent things
previously that didn't have a problem
(using outlook express 6, Internet Explorer 7, and netzero) and am not sure
I really want to go through all the attempts at adjusting to fix it;
On the other hand, I did find from a writeup of the Honda FCX that their
release in 2008 is something 'more than (the) 2 vehicles' they released with
their first fuel cell offering, and that they are only half the cost!! - a
mere $1/2 million now - so I guess it's just a matter of how many millions
are in their marketing obfuscation budget, maybe $20 mill so maybe they'll
make 40 cars ? (details at
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2007-05-18-test-drive-fcx_n.htm)
Not sure where I saw the "$25,000 and ready to mass market," it might have
been in the USA Today headline, but it's obviously a demo fleet for a
vehicle they admit 'is not ready for prime time' and probably only in places
like CA where you can actually buy hydrogen fuel.
And again, the Chinese made Chery, presumably chape and light, to be
sold as Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge - perhaps a decent ev glider? I myself prefer
converting stuff like Porsche 356 kitcars to all electric, might as well
have acool car if you're going to just drive 50-60 miles total, and possibly
somewhat slowish, as an (affordable) lead acid based ev ...
Seth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 1:56 AM
Subject: RE: Honda Fuel Cell - did I miss 20 years somewhere?
Again, I read on the list that some did not get this message,
while I received below in perfect order....
Weird.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Seth Myers
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:35 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Honda Fuel Cell - did I miss 20 years somewhere?
The news is that they plan to build for mass market a $25,000 fuel cell
vehicle that gets 68 mpg (so what that hydrogen costs $3-$6 a gallon, and
that you won't be able to find any)
- so did the fuel cell movement manage to leap frog the 20 years or so
hurdle that seemed to be the concensus for the time it would take to come
to
market, or are these part of say a 100 or 1000 vehicle demo fleet, each
costing more like $100,000, but for them just to say ' we tried it, now
let's wait to see a hydrogen infrastructure develop' ?
Or possibly a 'mild fuel cell' vehicle much like the Honda mild hybrid
?
It's not (entirely) that I'm too lazy to research this, it's just that I
hold the collective wisdom of this list in such high regard, that it's
just
less energy/labor-intensive to ask some people who know these things (and
hae probably already discussed them before, though I couldn't find any
recent discussion in the archives)
Also, I see the Chinese made Chery auto company is going to be beinging
their cars to the US through Chrysler as Chrysler, Jeep or Dodge.
Presumably they will offer some sort of smaller, cheaper and lightweight
vehicle - perhaps an ideal ev conversion platform? BY then, there should
be
some Firefly batteries out (they are supposed to have some group 31 truck
application battery available this fall, so maybe next fall ...) so
ev'eers
could make some nice statements (a 100 mile range vehicle that doesn't
have
to rely on expensive lithium battery packs)
Thanks,
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jim,
Some vacuum pumps have a screw driver slot adjustment with a locking nut.
It adjust the spring tension on the check value. My vacuum pump is a GMC
pump for a diesel truck that has a vacuum relief adjustment.
At a low starting out rpm, the vacuum pump is not at the full rated In.HG of
vacuum which should be between 18 to 22 in.hg. This causes the check value
inside the pump to open and shut, at first making a clunking noise at below
5 in.hg. When it gets between 5 and 10 in.hg, then it starts to making a
lower clanking noise. Between 10 to 15 in.hg. it goes a very low sounding
click click click and 15 to 18 in.hg it goes tit, tit, tit which I can
barely hear it.
When the vacuum is above 18 in.hg. I cannot hear it.
To keep it above 18 in.hg. I install a vacuum canister I got from jegs.com
that has a another check value that plugs into the canister, like the one
that plugs into the brake vacuum booster. If you have any other vacuum
lines tap of this main vacuum line to the brake booster, install another
check value in the tap off line.
Without the vacuum canister and additional check values, my vacuum would
drop or go below 15 in.hg. and I would get the clunk, clank, clink, tit tit
noise again.
Of course that may be the type of unit I am using.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Waite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:07 AM
Subject: Silencing those vacuum pumps (was: Fiero conversions..]
> Hi David & All,
>
> --<you wrote>--
> I wonder if building a vacuum chamber, and mounting the pump inside it
> would help?
> --<snip>--
>
> DOH! Now why didn't I think of that!!!
>
> If I still had Battcar, I'd sure as heck try stickin' that Gast pump
> inside the PVC pipe *vacuum chamber* (IIRC 4" O.D.?) to see how it
> worked....
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi CR,
--<you wrote>--
Vacuum is an effective thermal insulator. My guess is that the vacuum
pump would quickly overheat and fail, with no air to cool it.
--<snip>--
Yup, you're right... and here's more right from the manufacturer;
http://www.gastmfg.com/pdf/vacpresshdbk.pdf (see pg. 76). However,
there is further mention of oversizing and/or intermittent/cycling
operation to assist in temperature recovery.
Again, I don't have a test bed so I can't try it out, but since this is
a relatively common *annoyance* perhaps other active EV'rs can try it
out & report??? (it appears Wayland's a tad bit busy on *other*
projects right now, and DAMN rightfully so!:-)
JW
(the other one)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.manzanitamicro.com has some.
----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2007 4:45:38 PM
Subject: Optimas Amp hrs vs time
I'm looking for a graph of Amp hr capacity vs time for Optima D34's. I
went to the Optima site but only found the 20 hour and 100 hour values.
I'm basically looking for the 1 hour value but I do have need of an
actual graph. I contacted Optima customer service and they sent me a
open circuit voltage vs state of charge graph. Do any of you have a URL
to a graph of Amp Hr capacity vs time?
Am I asking for this correctly?
Peter
____________________________________________________________________________________
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roland,
Interesting.... & very creative way to keep your GMC pump at acceptable
noise levels!
I don't remember if the Gast has this same check valve spring
adjustment: another idea for someone to look into and try (a la
Roland).
JW
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
(sort of testing my email again here, I have no attachements or different
font that should be causing problems - it says 'plain text')it sounds like
their model will switch between fuel cell and some sort of multi-vitamin
blender generator to supply power to it's 40 miles range worth of Lithium
batteries? SO, I guess they are relying on
adequate fuel cell developments in order for this vehicle to become reality,
as well? So, when they say stuff like '2010' or something, that's likely
for the initial Honda FCX-like 2 car, million dollar car fleet, then maybe a
few years after that, they'll get their next generation 1/2 million dollar
version ,etc. etc. ? (or perhaps they can leverage Honda's experience and
start out at just the $500,000 version!).
So, their statements about 'we have 500 engineers working on making it
into a production model' and 'we're testing batteries until June 2008' are
sort of hyperbole since they know full well that 'Lord Fauntleroy is in the
Fuel Cell' (my own version of 'the devil's in the details') and, even if
they find an acceptable Lithium battery for 40 miles range, which makes it
into a $40,000 ish plug-in series hybrid, they will still have that little
$500,000
fuel cell component to work out? (plus their Ronco multi-fuel slicer-dicer
gizmo).
It seems one problem with those Lithium 40 miles range (or more) battery
packs are that, even if you can fork out the extra $10,000+ to start out
with, you still havethe issue of having to fork out the same amount
5-10 years later, though maybe people can be persuaded to save their extra
pump savings into a giant nationalized energy savings account which will pay
for their next battery? There's one for Hillary to work on ...
I'm still banking on firefly to be the 'game changer' for ev's (not buying
into EEStor stuff), an affordable and somewhat light weight-ish 100+ mile
range ev ...
They presumably have some group 31 batteries coming out this fall, I'd
like to see the specs and see if they can fit in something ...
Seth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 12:18 PM
Subject: EV digest 6997
EV Digest 6997
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: ev1 scr drrives
by "dbd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) White Zombie 11s in 07
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: how much dc to get about 450 v ac
by "owen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) 11s in '07...Timing is Everything! (pt 1)
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Steel
by "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Dessicant
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Steel, Back to the old Grind!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: 11s in '07...Timing is Everything! (pt 1)
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: how much dc to get about 450 v ac
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Thanks EVDL
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Steel
by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Steel
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Steel
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just to be clear here, I set Paul up with a webmail account on my personal
server. I'd originally suggested that he open a Yahoo, Lycos, or Gmail
account, but the major webmail providers are blocked for him.
I've never done this before for an EVDL member and probably won't very
often. I don't have unlimited server space! However, since Paul only needs
an account until he gets back to school in the fall, I made an exception.
This was a quick fix that got him up and running right away.
In general, if Yahoo, Lycos, or Gmail won't work for you, there are
literally thousands of other ad-supported webmail providers out there, often
co-branded, that probably will. Just type "free email" into your favorite
search engine.
Whatever service you choose, don't forget to set it for plain text.
Here's one example of a free (ad-supported) email service that defaults to
plain text. This may be of interest to some (not all) EVDL members.
http://passport.care2.net/signup.html
It's on the pokey side (probably close to hopeless on a dialup) and the user
interface is a tad convoluted, but glory be, it sends plain text. After you
log in, the link for email is the word "email" in tiny, tiny text at the top
right. ;-)
As I say, this service won't be for everyone; it definitely has a
progressive slant (see the website for more information). I had a little
trouble finding free email that might meet with more favor from
conservatives, but here are a couple of sources that may be of interest :
http://keepandbeararms.com/
http://www.worthyemail.com/
None of the above links is intended as a partisan comment; I'm merely trying
to provide options for those who prefer an email environment which fits with
their world view.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not disagreeing, but looking at things from a different point of view. The
Evette might be able to hold more batteries as a percentage of vehicle weight,
which is the important number for city range.
It's somewhat counterintuitive, but the fewer wheels a vehicle has, the more
weight it can carry, in terms of the vehicle's own weight. A unicycle can carry
maybe 40 times its own weight. A bicycle can carry about 20 times its weight. A
three wheeler can carry maybe double its weight. A four wheel car can carry
about its own weight in load.
So if it is properly designed, a vehicle like the Evette could have a higher
battery to vehicle weight ratio than a four wheel vehicle, giving it greater
range. Finding strong enough bearings and axles is doable, just use truck
components.
----- Original Message ----
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2007 1:59:55 PM
Subject:
Tom S. wrote:
> The advantages are,it holds more batteries so it will go
> farther on a charge.It will out maneuver any 4wheel car any
> time, and its fun to drive.It also has 2 motors twice the power.
... Ultimately I don't believe it can carry more batteries than a more
conventional 3 or 4-wheeled EV simply because even if you were to fit more
batteries into yours, you are relying on just 2 wheels (tires, axles, wheel
bearings, etc.) to support the weight while more conventional designs would
distribute the same load over 3 or 4 wheels. ...
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Jul 2007 at 9:46, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I always thought that sitting batteries on a concrete garage floor would
> suck out the charge
That's a myth. I've stored batteries on the garage floor for years. Keep
them clean and dry and you're fine. Cool is not a problem; in fact
moderately cool temperatures are better for storing batteries (reduces self
discharge).
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is what I'd call free energy.
"The tiny device, which is less than one cubic centimetre in size, uses
vibrations in the world around it to make magnets on a cantilever at the
heart of the device wobble to generate power."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6272752.stm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone remember the self winding wrist watches? My dad still
wears his every day. This sounds like the electrical equivalent of
that. Sort of neat, but not applicable to EV's all.....
On 7/6/07, Henry Heng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This is what I'd call free energy.
"The tiny device, which is less than one cubic centimetre in size, uses
vibrations in the world around it to make magnets on a cantilever at the
heart of the device wobble to generate power."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6272752.stm
--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com
CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders
Quotable Quote
"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."
Wendell Berry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well my 928 is finally on the road! It took its
maiden voyages on Wednesday.
Thanks to everyone on the ev-list for your help.A few
that have helped directly are , Cor van de Water, Bob
Bath for pointing me in the right direction. Most of
the time I remained in lurk mode and used many great
ideas from the very knowledgeable people here. In
particular Lee Hart for his voltage clamper and pack
monitor designs. So simple that even a electronic
novice like myself can understand. :<)
Thanks again,
Jeff McCabe
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/736
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My galvanized box with fiberglass insulation seems to work fine in dampening
the pump noise on my Thomas unit. I have no reason to believe it will
overheat. You are more likely to have overheating on an air compressor.
I base my reasoning on the fact that the Mercedes Benz vacuum pump used on
their vehicles can be found in an insulated box under the back seat. I
don't hear anyone complaining that they are burning out because they are
sealed in a box, just that they can't be heard.
I also mounted my unit on rubber cushions to keep sound from being
transferred to the body from the pump. I can only barely hear it inside the
car with the hood in place so I guess it works ok. Pumps down to -17 and
doesn't start again until it hits -10. I am also using a Jegs cannister
for the reservoir.
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Waite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 12:07 PM
Subject: Silencing those vacuum pumps (was: Fiero conversions..]
Hi David & All,
--<you wrote>--
I wonder if building a vacuum chamber, and mounting the pump inside it
would help?
--<snip>--
DOH! Now why didn't I think of that!!!
If I still had Battcar, I'd sure as heck try stickin' that Gast pump
inside the PVC pipe *vacuum chamber* (IIRC 4" O.D.?) to see how it
worked....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm so glad that White Zombie with it's new brush timing has done so well.
I'm wondering if there is a better way to time the brushes?
Deafscooter(Craig) just goes for the least amp draw at a medium rpm. Does
anyone else time the brushes this way? It seems to me almost everyone is
making educated guesses. Turning up the advance untill it stops arcing. Is
there a proven way to get the best performance, efficiency & dependability
out of brushed series motors? There must be an algorythm. It seems to me if
you put it at the sweet spot arcing will be the least & power will be the
most. Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, years ago when the electric company out here (called HELCO ;)
was putting up poles in virgin land - and getting complaints - showed us
some data on the losses of "undergrounding" the power cables as compared
to blocking the ocean views. I dont have that data anymore. At that time I
had discussed it with some electrical knowledgable ;) people, and they
understood this to be the case. Something about the capacitance of the
earth and so larger conduits were smarter to use.
If someone has more info - please tell us ;)
On 7/6/07, joe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Where did you get this idea? I'm an electrical contractor, have been burying
wire for years, and never heard of such a thing! There are losses, yes but
they are caused by the resistance of the wire, not the earth!
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "patrick DonEgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
> Well, what about the capacitance of the Earth (aka dirt)???
>
> I know when you bury electrical cables, you lose power.
>
>
> On 7/5/07, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> If you do bury batteries underground, they should remain at a constant
>> 57F. This would keep the batteries from overheating, but you wouldn't
>> get the full capacity achievable at 70-80F.
>>
>> My 2 Wh,
>>
>> Brandon Kruger
>> http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
>> http://cafepress.com/altfuel
>>
>> On 7/5/07, patrick DonEgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > On 7/5/07, Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > I'll start off with a grid-tie system but evenually I want an
>> > > interrupt
>> > > breaker that will divert PV output from the static inverter to a
>> > > "battery
>> > > bunker" I'm going to bury in the backyard. That way, if the grid goes
>> > > down,
>> > > I'll have batteries to run things for a little while.
>> >
>> >
>> > If you bury the batteries, will the earth soak up a percentage of your
>> > energy?
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
