EV Digest 7023
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Con't-New guy seeking knowledge
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Electric Evette
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Electric Evette
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: FuelVapor Technologies - fuel efficient vehicle automobile high
mileage ale'
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Yahoo! Auto Response
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: New guy seeking knowledge
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Optimum Brush Advance for Acceleration & top end
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Tires, LRR, 1986 Mazda
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Battery Boxes and Heating
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Tires, LRR, 1986 Mazda
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Best Charger?
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: New guy seeking knowledge
by "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Tires, LRR, 1986 Mazda
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Steel
by Mike Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Short and Cheap :was Short range bat. pack
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Home Power Zeke
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Short and Cheap :was Short range bat. pack
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Best Charger?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Yahoo! Auto Response
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: New guy seeking knowledge
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Battery Boxes and Heating
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: powering 12v cooling fan from pack voltage
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Battery Boxes and Heating
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Optimum Brush Advance for Acceleration & top end
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Tires, LRR, 1986 Mazda
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Amost Live from PIR
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Amost Live from PIR, 1st Update
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Tires, LRR, 1986 Mazda
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: One question of many
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi ? and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Eco Performance <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Con't-New guy seeking knowledge
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:36:35 -0700 (PDT)
>This is a continuation of my post a couple days ago. I'm
>not smart enough to know how to reply directly to the
>messages.
>
>So, thank you for the input so far, and I shouldn't have
>been so vague. We're sticking with the saab because it is
>lighter & more aero than suv's or trucks. And yes, we plan
>on lithium. We're are looking at Altair, A123, Phet, or
>Thundersky.
>
>We're dropping the saab onto a subaru drivetrain and using
>four motors from salvaged priuses, & the batteries. We may
>also get some ultracaps from Maxwell.
>
>We need a range of 60+ at 60mph.
>
>Any thoughts or suggestions???
Why would you want to do this? It's about as expensive
as you can get when it can be done for much, much less!!
Your choice of the Saab was a good one then you ruined
it by changing to a heavier and more importantly, more work,
chassis.
For your range, speed requirements you can easily get
by with lead batts and DC motors, in fact be faster for
about 1/4 the money!!
If you can handle the controller, stacking 4 Prius
motors on a diff or 2 motors per front wheel could work but
why? Addicted to gadgetitus? A common affliction here in EV
land. $30k is probably not enough to do it your way.
Check out the Saab EV's already done in the EV Photo
Album.
None of the Li batts are ready for any but those who
are willing to spend a lot and risk it going down the tubes.
A much better idea is design for lead now and by the time
you need another battery set, you can switch to Li once they
are more proven, lower cost and get 200 mile range if you
like.
Ultracaps are expensive, heavy and hold very, very,
very little power.
With 1-2 motors to a diff or the trans, any of many
controllers with you doing the work, you could do it econo
for about $5k to about $10k for a more racing version in
lead.
KIS,
Jerry Dycus
>
>Thanks again for the input.
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels
>with Yahoo! FareChase.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peter and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Electric Evette
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:33:20 -0700
>I'm pretty sure both the EV1 (or at least the Impact) and
>the Solectria sunrise held about 2/3 of their weight in
>batteries. This is a result of having been designed as EVs
>from the ground up using lightweight composites
>construction, much like your Evette.
The EV-1 had 1/3 it's weight in lead batts. But was
such a low drag EV it could do 100 miles on that.
The Sunrise has never had more than 50% battery
weight.
>
>So if you argument is about custom designed EV vs
>conversion EV then it's true, however, it doesn't say much
>about your choice of vehicle configuration. In fact I think
>both previously mentioned vehicles carry slightly more
>batteries/weight than the Evette (can't find the data) and
>with those two giant wheels on the back I'm sure you get
>less range due to rolling resistance.
I'd probably agree with that. Hard to tell as he
gives little info.
>
>It's a very nifty vehicle though.
>
>
>
>
>On 7/13/07, Tom S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> Let me explain in a little more detail, the Evette
>weighs about a 1000lbs without batteries,it will bold up to
>40 orbital batteries at about 40lbs a piece, thats about
>1600lbs.Thats a ratio of 1.6/1, and a total weight of
>2600lbs. Electric conversions that can hold 40 orbitals
>,will be 2000lbs or more,thats a total weight of 3600lbs or
>>more. Agree or disagree?
I hold 60% battery weight in my EV and see no reason
to hold more as 100 mile+ range is all I need.
But mine weights 400 lbs less than yours -batts with
probably much better crash protection, strength so I see no
advantage over your version vs my composite tadpole
3wheeler. When it gets done I'll be glad to race you, time
wise, as I'd never be on the same track head to head as your
vehicle for safety reasons.
The BBB is where you needed to go and put your EV
though it's paces on the autocross course. Of course you
could have been at the last 2 to prove your EV but you
didn't, why?
Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Better Google those weights. One caution -- at least one web site mixes up kg
and lbs for the EV1 battery weight. The EV1 and the Solectria Sunrise were
about 40% battery by weight. Tom S. says his Evette is 61%.
While in theory 3 wheels verses 4 wheels can help, it also could be the EV1 had
a full interior, air bags, air conditioning, a heater, roll down windows, etc.
I don't know how fully equipped the Sunrise or Evette are. Even so, it is
pretty impressive, you'd have to get 1000 lbs out of an EV1 to get it to be 61%
battery.
----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 4:33:20 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Evette
I'm pretty sure both the EV1 (or at least the Impact) and the Solectria sunrise
held about 2/3 of their weight in batteries. This is a result of having been
designed as EVs from the ground up using lightweight composites construction,
much like your Evette.
So if you argument is about custom designed EV vs conversion EV then it's true,
however, it doesn't say much about your choice of vehicle configuration. In
fact I think both previously mentioned vehicles carry slightly more
batteries/weight than the Evette (can't find the data) and with those two giant
wheels on the back I'm sure you get less range due to rolling resistance.
It's a very nifty vehicle though.
On 7/13/07, Tom S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> Let me explain in a little more detail, the Evette weighs about a 1000lbs
> without batteries,it will bold up to 40 orbital batteries at about 40lbs a
> piece, thats about 1600lbs.Thats a ratio of 1.6/1, and a total weight of
> 2600lbs. Electric conversions that can hold 40 orbitals ,will be 2000lbs or
> more,thats a total weight of 3600lbs or more. Agree or disagree?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware
protection.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
'It does make me wonder though how much of that is due to extreme
lightweight and basically a three wheel motorcycle?"
Probably most of it.
On 7/12/07, GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well this does change the rules.
http://www.fuelvaporcar.com/index.html
92 mpg 180 hp.
It does make me wonder though how much of that is due to extreme
lightweight and basically a three wheel motorcycle?
What what the performance of a slick electric vehicle of these
dimensions be?
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Apparently it is smarter than the list subscribers who set it for the
list :-)
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 4:48 pm, Dan Frederiksen wrote:
hehe, it would appear that the autoresponse is smart enough to only
notify once though
GWMobile wrote:
What if everyone on a list set their autoresponse to the whole list
and they all auto repsponded to the autorepsonses . Would it progress
in a geometric expansion and suck all power from the electric grid?
Then we would have to power the servers by pluging into the batteries
in the ev's
Sigh.....
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 4:06 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I probably won't be able to check my emails until Monday. Pls. phone
739 77 17, if you need a quick answer. Cheers!
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Our price tag is looking awful close to $30k"
What? 30k for a conversion of a Saab? Either you have overpriced
estimates or you're assuming the use of A123 batteries, which are very
pricey.
On 7/13/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Eco Performance wrote:
> I need help. I live in the rockies and feel there is a market for
> functional EV's. I dubbed them MUEV's (Mountain Utility EV). What I
> picture is something that can seat 4 people, a dog, and some gear,
> all-wheel drive, and have a good enough range and top speed to suit
> all us ski bums with 20+ mile commutes to our jobs as servants to the
> wealthy. I'm asking if you guys had any ideas on how to make this
> affordable and how you'd design it in our situation.
My old ComutaVan was a good start at meeting this design criteria. It
was basically a grown-up version of the old CitiCar. Aluminum pipe
frame, with a pop-riveted-on ABS plastic body. Trailer springs, tires,
and brakes. Series DC motor, 3-speed manual transmission, in a
conventional front engine, rear drive setup. Twelve golf cart batteries
and a primitive contactor controller; but it would do 55 mph and had a
range of 50 miles at lower speeds.
Very simple, very crude, very ugly... but very cheap. They had a lot of
quality control and poorly thought out engineering problems, but the
basic design was sound.
How about building an updated version of it? I'd start by looking at
Bill Towns "Hustler" for appearance. It is a very nice looking, but very
simple body design, used for a British kit car. With electric motors, it
would be easy to make it all-wheel drive. For example, use solid axles
front and rear like a jeep, with a separate electric motor driving each
one so there's no drive shaft.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Your best bet is probably to do what Otmar once suggested; rig a camera
and monitor so you can watch the brush arcing while driving, and adjust
the timing to minimize it."
Electric Motor Brushes arc while in use? Is that normal?
On 7/13/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mark Hanson wrote:
> I was curious if there was a RPM's vs timing advance chart for a series
> wound motor in a commuter car (not race car). I posted this a few days
> ago but I think it got lost in the ether.
No; there really isn't any simple chart that can do it justice. It is a
complex issue having to do with the shape and magnetic materials, iron
saturation characteristics, etc. so it varies considerably between motors.
The field distortion that requires brush advance is mostly related to
*current*, not voltage. Voltage only matters to the extent that more
voltage always means more arcing, regardless of the advance.
Your best bet is probably to do what Otmar once suggested; rig a camera
and monitor so you can watch the brush arcing while driving, and adjust
the timing to minimize it.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm trying to find some nice tires - C Load Rating (for 2000 pounds of
lead) - 6 ply or better, rather than the standard passenger tires that
originally came on the truck:
P195 (or 205)/75 R14.
A couple of places that I've been to say, sure, we've got those.. no...
wait... sorry, we can't get those.
Can I put standard passenger tires on the truck?
I'd like to get hard tires, but even in the $100 range, the 2 places I've
checked say that they can't get the tires I want (michelin).
Recommendations?
Thanks!
Ed Cooley
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Boxes and Heating
> Yeah, I don't have a garage either. So I am wondering if just keeping
> it plugged in with like an inch of blue foam insulating them will
> work. Also I heard that AGMs run cooler than flooded, what about Gel?
Hello Tehben,
Ok, you are parking the EV outside. I also way back in the 80's park my EV
outside at work for about 9 hours even when it was 35 below. I then at that
time, use one of those round heat cables which was a blue one, which was
segmented every 6 feet where you can cut it and install a plug and
thermostat kit on it.
To calculated the amount of watts you need we use the following formula:
There is 3,413 btu's per 1000 watts, so:
Btu's = SF x U factor x TD
SF is equal to the exterior surface of your battery box to the ambient air.
U factor is the 1/R
R is the R factor of the material
TD is the Temperature Difference between the inside the battery box and the
outside ambient air.
You said, you have 144 volts of batteries, so when install in one block. So
if these are 6 volt batteries, than you need 24 of them. This takes about a
battery box area of 44 inches by 42 inches by 12 inches high.
Converted to SF, the top and bottom areas are 3.5 ft by 3.66 ft times 2 =
25.66 SF
The sides are 1 foot high plus 3.5 + 3.66 + 3.5 + 3.66 = 14.32 SF
So your total outside SF area is 14.32 + 25.66 = 39.98 SF or lets call it 40
SF of battery box area.
In our calculation for heating systems for a building, we normally use 100
TD. If you want to maintain 70 degrees in a building at -30 degrees, that
is a 100 degrees temperature difference. For you battery box, you could
maintain 80 degrees F. at -20 degrees F.
The R-factor of 1 inch Dow Corning Blue foam is 5 R-factor.
The U-factor is 1/5 = 0.2
Now the formula becomes:
Btu's = 40 SF x 0.2 U factor x 100 TD
Btu's = 800
Watts require = (1000 x 800)/3412 = 234 watts at 30 below.
Therefore: 1 inch of foam requires 234 watts
2 inch of foam requires 117 watts
Once the battery is heated to lets say 80 degrees, it takes more than a day
with out heat for it to drop to 65 degrees at 30 below. So It may take less
wattage then 234 watts for the first 8 hours.
My battery box had about 80 watts of that round blue heat cable, which kept
it above 70 degrees when outside for about 9 hours.
When using that round cable, do not bend it tight around the battery
corners, and do not use the metal cover type, because acid fumes will effect
it.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ed,
Take a look at the Pirelli Scorpion ATR tires. That have a very hard 6 ply
face and a 2 ply side, which the side takes the deflection, while the face
remains round.
These are a very aggressive type of tire, I use, so I can push through a
foot of snow with no problem. My tires at a 235 size, has a load rating of
2350 lbs at 65psi which I have at now. The ride is some what softer than
the very hard 8 ply Dunlaps I had on the EV for 20 years and still had 1/2
the thread left, but beginning to weather check.
Goodyear also has a tire equal to the above Pirelli, but the thread pattern
was not aggressive enough for me on rough, snow pack and icy roads.
Weigh you EV at each wheel and find the out what the weight is. Lets say
its 1600 lbs. Then take 1600 x 1.25 = 2000 lbs.
The load rating on the side of the tire should at least say 2000 lbs.
Lets say the tires reads 2000 lbs at 50 PSI. Than at 1600 actual load the
air pressure could be (1600x50)/2000 = 40 PSI.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 6:51 PM
Subject: Tires, LRR, 1986 Mazda
> I'm trying to find some nice tires - C Load Rating (for 2000 pounds of
> lead) - 6 ply or better, rather than the standard passenger tires that
> originally came on the truck:
> P195 (or 205)/75 R14.
>
> A couple of places that I've been to say, sure, we've got those.. no...
> wait... sorry, we can't get those.
>
> Can I put standard passenger tires on the truck?
> I'd like to get hard tires, but even in the $100 range, the 2 places I've
> checked say that they can't get the tires I want (michelin).
>
> Recommendations?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ed Cooley
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What, in your opinion, is the best charger for an EV using AGMs?
Flooded?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/13/07, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hmm, old landrovers are not only rare, but desired by collectors, so
the prices are outrageous.
Yep :) I sold one. That is how I am paying for most of my conversion. :D
--
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
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--- Begin Message ---
I have 4, added a wire cup wheel... sanding, grinding and cutting discs
are all required equipment for rusty old cars. Wire wheel is good for
paint or body sealer removal.
gary wrote:
If I had it my way, I'd have three of these - one each with
sanding, grinding and cutting discs.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the good lesson of battery calculations. Before I was just
skimming the battery threads and skipping the math parts cause it was hard
to follow and I was more interested in other aspects.
So knowing what my target Ah is now I am realy to start a search for
batteries. I was looking at ebay and there are a few lots of ups
batteries. Cheap and small but I think (if my electrical knowledge serves
me) put a few in parallel then is series with other parallel packs to get
the Ah's to add up. The thing i wonder about is...
Would the typical 12v 7.5Ah ups batteries be able to physically handle the
currents required for driving? even if it was buddied up with 2 or 3 more?
The terminals look flimsy but I guess that as the current adds in parallel
the battery terminals will only see 1/3 or 1/2 the current that is used.
My other line of thought was to find a battery recycler or auto shop and
just get some salvage batteries for a first drive around the pasture. Golf
cart batteries are also an option but I like the idea of ups AGM's.
So paralleling many small batteries is ok?
Thanks,
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey, Zeke, is that you with the write-up in this month's issue of Home
Power magazine?
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Would the typical 12v 7.5Ah ups batteries be able to physically handle the
currents required for driving?"
It depends. Give us a name of a manufacturer or if it's a starting
battery, or a marine battery.
7.5 amp hours wouldn't be enough for 10 miles of range though.
You mention that you would put the batteries in parallel. (to make
more amp hours, right?) Well, if you're going to take a 12 volt
battery, then put it into parallel with 2 other 12 volt batteries so
that you have more ah's, then wouldn't it make more sense just to buy
a bigger (more ah's) battery in the first place?
I don't know of any 7.5 amp hour batteries that are designed for
deep-cycling, which is what small 10 mile range battery would need.
"Golf cart batteries are also an option but I like the idea of ups AGM's."
Golf cart batteries are great since they are so durable and cheap, but
performance is pretty bad, and I don't know of any small golf-cart
batteries. However, you did say before that you'd have an average
speed of 50 mph, so it sounds like you don't need much performance for
getting onto the highway.
AGMs would be great for your needs, but aren't very cheap though, and
a battery balancer or regulator is required. Why are regulators or
balancers required? Well, they do not keep an even charge throughout
the pack, and cannot be overcharged. So over time, what happens is
that some batteries are undercharged and some are already charged. The
charger will try to charge the undercharged batteries, and in the
process, overcharge and slowly ruin, the other batteries.
"So paralleling many small batteries is ok?"
Don't know too much about that, but it should be fine.
On 7/13/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks for the good lesson of battery calculations. Before I was just
skimming the battery threads and skipping the math parts cause it was hard
to follow and I was more interested in other aspects.
So knowing what my target Ah is now I am realy to start a search for
batteries. I was looking at ebay and there are a few lots of ups
batteries. Cheap and small but I think (if my electrical knowledge serves
me) put a few in parallel then is series with other parallel packs to get
the Ah's to add up. The thing i wonder about is...
Would the typical 12v 7.5Ah ups batteries be able to physically handle the
currents required for driving? even if it was buddied up with 2 or 3 more?
The terminals look flimsy but I guess that as the current adds in parallel
the battery terminals will only see 1/3 or 1/2 the current that is used.
My other line of thought was to find a battery recycler or auto shop and
just get some salvage batteries for a first drive around the pasture. Golf
cart batteries are also an option but I like the idea of ups AGM's.
So paralleling many small batteries is ok?
Thanks,
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 13 Jul 2007 at 22:09, Joseph T. wrote:
> What, in your opinion, is the best charger for an EV using AGMs?
>
> Flooded?
This is a very difficult question to answer because you've provided very
little additional information. I don't know what voltage you're using, or
how large a battery, or how much you want to spend.
However, I'd say that one of the smartest and most flexible readily
available chargers for >any< battery from 130 volts up is the Swiss-made
Brusa NLG5 range. Metricmind.com offers them in the US. They are available
in several different voltage ranges, output power ranges, and cooling
configurations.
Warning - they are not cheap! But they will "baby" your battery so that it
lasts longer; in the long run they will save you money.
For batteries to 72 volts, you might want to look at the Chinese-made
(Canadian-designed) Delta-Q chargers. They're also microprocessor
controlled, but aren't as flexible as the Brusa chargers (they're set at the
factory for your battery, and have to be reprogrammed for each change you
make).
For voltages between these ranges, Russco chargers can be a good choice.
They batteries are not fully isolated from the power line, but they do have
build in GFIs, which provide some measure of shock protection. They are not
as "smart" as either of the above chargers, either, though I think
additional charge control is an option.
Zivan chargers (from Italy, last I saw) offer full isolation for safety.
They're microprocessor controlled, but have a reputation of being rough on
batteries. They also have to be returned to a dealer if you want to change
your battery configuration. Some folks have had good results from these,
but I'm a bit hesitant to recommend them. A friend of mine scrapped with
the Zivan distributor for years, trying to get his charger set for less
aggressive equalization because he believed that the charger was
overcharging his battery. He never achieved his goal. Finally he gave up.
Other chargers to consider are the PFC range from Manzanita. These chargers
are popular with EV hobbyists because they provide high output power at a
relatively low price, at the expense of having fairly rudimentary charge
control. Support for these chargers is reportedly excellent, as the
designer and manufacturer are right here on the EVDL! On the downside,
they're not isolated from the power line, and don't have built-in GFIs, so
they must be provided with an external GFI for safety. AFAIK, they're not
UL approved. Adding battery regulators to them provides more charge control
(they're designed to use Manzanita's own regulators), but they still don't
achieve the "smartness" level of the Brusa or Delta-Q microprocessor
controlled chargers.
Hope this helps.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
Hmm, old landrovers are not only rare, but desired by collectors, so
the prices are outrageous. I guess a jeep cherokee would work, except
as everyone says you want your donor to be something worth putting
money into
How about starting with a DJ5 Postal Jeep. These things are very common,
very simple, and strong. Keep the chassis, but replace the body with
something better.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
Is the car parked in a garage or not?
I parked in an unheated garage at night, and it sat outside in the
parking lot at work during the day. The garage average temperature was
about halfway between inside-the-house and outdoor temperatures (i.e. if
it is 70 deg.F inside and 30 deg.F outside, the garage was about 50 deg.F).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thomas Ward wrote:
I have an SMPS with a 85-264V AC input (and no jumpers), is this
likely to have a voltage doubler stage?
If it says 85-264vac with no jumpers or switches or automatic
changeovers, then it is either a "universal input" supply, or one with
power factor correction. In both cases, it won't have a voltage doubler
on the input, and so can work on DC.
But you have to try it to be sure. Sometimes there will be a fan with an
AC motor, or a small 60 Hz power transformer, or some other circuit that
just happens to require AC.
If so it could be bypassed by identifying and connecting to the DC side
side of the bridge rectifier?
You can bypass in the input voltage doubler circuit, but it then will
need on the order of 250-400 volts DC to run the internal switcher
itself on DC.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tehben Dean wrote:
Yeah, I don't have a garage either. So I am wondering if just keeping
it plugged in with like an inch of blue foam insulating them will
work.
With 1" of 2 lbs density foam on all sides of your battery boxes, and no
significant air leaks, it will only take 100 watts or so of heat to keep
the batteries warm.
Also I heard that AGMs run cooler than flooded, what about Gel?
The heat during charging is produced at the end of the charge cycle,
when the batteries are being overcharged. You normally overcharge
floodeds, so you get waste heat. Both AGMs and gels are sealed
batteries, which you can't overcharge (unless you want short life), so
you get much less waste heat.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joseph T. wrote:
Electric Motor Brushes arc while in use? Is that normal?
Oh yes! Watch any vacuum cleaner or electric drill motor in operation.
Under normal circumstances, the arcing is minimal, and the brushes last
a long time (thousands of hours). The problems being discussed here
occur when someone deliberately runs the motor at far more than its
rated current and voltage. Doing so makes the arcing much worse.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm trying to find some nice tires - C Load Rating (for 2000 pounds of
lead) - 6 ply or better, rather than the standard passenger tires that
originally came on the truck: P195 (or 205)/75 R14.
1993-2003 VW Eurovans use small tires with an extra high load rating.
Some of the ones I've seen used are General Tire Vanco, Michelin MVX4
Plus, and Dunlop SP10, all in an "extra load" version with a 102H load
rating. See if you can find any of these in your size.
The 2001-2003 Toyota Prius came with Bridgestone Potenza RE92 low
rolling resistance tires, 175/65R14, extra load rating, 1102 lbs at 45
psi, 84S load rating.
Can I put standard passenger tires on the truck?
Yes, you can. But car tires are generally rated for much less weight, so
you need to use a much larger size to carry a given load.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, I am a bit late getting back from dinner and John has already done two
runs on the A123s and Bill just did his first warm up run at 135 mph at a
9.801 ET. John drove his car to the track with the Lithiums installed and it
scared the holy sh.t out of him when he just barely stabbed the throttle. He
had the battery amps turned up to 1000 and the motor amp turned to 2000 and
it boiled the tires in a more incredible display then ever before and it
might be even considered in the realm of ticket territory in some
jurisdictions :-) I can tell these batteries will not be for the faint of
heart! On their first run they turned the battery amps down to 500 and the
series and parallel amps turned down to 1500 and they did a milquetoast 97
mph at 13.1 seconds. Remember that only a very short time ago this would
have been considered a phenomenal time. Plasma Boy's first impression of
these batteries is not totally fit to post here but I will try to paraphrase
his excitement. He said they were stiffer than an appendage he has first
thing in the morning. That about as polite as I can get and you all know
what a problem I have with that :-)
On his second run they turned the battery amps up to 900 and the series
and parralel up to 1500. They pulled an 11.864 at 109.56 mph. Keep in mind
that this battery stack can deliver 1450 amps. I can't wait to see the
results. Will Plasma Boy live up to his name and zorch his and Jim's motor
or will new records fall like water off the proverbial ducks back. Stayed
tuned. I haven't gone to bed yet!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just talked to John at the PIR track. They were having a minor heating
issue with the batteries. They also left their 12 volt auxiliary battery on
while they were charging and when they made their third run of the night the
voltage was not enough to hold in their contactor. It dropped out three
times on the run. There is so much press there it is like Hollywood
Paparazzi. Even with power dropping off three times during the run they were
able to pull off an 11.974 run at 105.68 mph and totally wasted the hot
Mustang in the other lane that had done an awesome fear invoking burnoff.
Alas the White Zombie just waltzed away under partial power. Killacycle's
second run wowed the crowd with a blistering 8.7 second 152 mph run.
Spectators and the press are finally starting to envision the true power and
the future of EVs. It is definitely a special night for electric vehicles!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I switched my Prius to Sumitomo HTR-200 tires as they are spec'd
up to 51 PSI, which means that they can take a lot of load.
Official load rating is 1047 lbs for the 175/65 HR14 that the
Prius uses stock, resulting in very low rolling resistance.
Tire Rack price is $45 each and American Tire will match the
lowest price, if you ask them.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 10:05 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Tires, LRR, 1986 Mazda
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm trying to find some nice tires - C Load Rating (for 2000 pounds of
> lead) - 6 ply or better, rather than the standard passenger tires that
> originally came on the truck: P195 (or 205)/75 R14.
1993-2003 VW Eurovans use small tires with an extra high load rating.
Some of the ones I've seen used are General Tire Vanco, Michelin MVX4 Plus,
and Dunlop SP10, all in an "extra load" version with a 102H load rating. See
if you can find any of these in your size.
The 2001-2003 Toyota Prius came with Bridgestone Potenza RE92 low rolling
resistance tires, 175/65R14, extra load rating, 1102 lbs at 45 psi, 84S load
rating.
> Can I put standard passenger tires on the truck?
Yes, you can. But car tires are generally rated for much less weight, so you
need to use a much larger size to carry a given load.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I pulled the relay for the power steering pump and this
saves my tires from being turned/scraped at standstill
and the poor pump from being overloaded, so now I must
make sure that I slowly roll the truck while turning the
whells, like my drive instructor used to say:
"Drive slow, steer quick".
(This was not the reason to pull the relay, it was an
unrelated problem)
Anyways, no problem in parallel parking as you are
supposed to move while parking, you only need to really
turn the wheels once to get into all but the tightest
spots and you are not supposed to turn the wheels while
standstill. Just leave them turned, makes it easier to
get out again.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 9:09 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: One question of many
You are going to want something. Either a manual rack, or an
electrically driven power steering pump. I converted a VW rabbit to
diesel, and removed the power steering pump when I did it. It's very
hard to parallel park now, but fine on the highway. My old manual
steering truck is fine -- not 'easy' to parallel park, but way easier than a
car that's supposed to have power steering, and doesn't. The big difference
is that a manual steering rack takes more turns from lock to lock (the old
manual steering dumptrucks from the 50's were often 10 or 15 turns from lock
to lock, compared to like 4 for modern cars), and also, if you look, the
steering wheel is usually a larger diameter wheel, so you have more torque
on it.
Z
On 7/12/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Tehben,
>
> I have run the power steering unit three different ways. One was a
> 180 volt motor-generator that ran off the main battery pack, which
> supply 14.5 VDC at 30 amps and also power the power steering and a
> vacuum pump at the same time.
>
> The next one was turning all the accessories units with a belt drive
> off the pilot shaft of the motor.
>
> The last and still being use is a electric power steering unit and
> electric motors for each accessory unit, plus the pilot shaft of the
> motor can engage thru a electric clutch during the time the EV goes
> into regen braking, which still provides power to the all the
> accessories unit, while the motor and battery amps are at 0 amps.
>
> I do not see any difference in the motor amperes and voltage between
> the belted method and the electric motor method.
>
> The main battery pack ampere goes up about 8 amps average using all
> the electric motor drives. The motor ampere is still reads about 200
> amps at 45 mph in both cases.
>
> When you use a separate motor drive of the battery pack, make sure you
> come off the load side of the main battery amp meter shunt, or your E
meter will
> not record the total ampere use. I use a another amp meter shunt for
the
> accessory drive motors, so I can see what the actual main motor
> ampere-hour requires that is recorded in the E-meter.
>
> The most efficient way for me, is to electric drive all the
> accessories units and then while coast down to a stop or down a hill,
> the motor electric clutch unit engages the drive units at the same
> time the accessories motors go off line. At that time, all my
> accessories unit are still running and my motor and main batteries are
reading 0 amps.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: One question of many
>
>
> > Would it be terribly inefficient to run the ICE power steering pump
> > with a small electric motor instead of using an OEM electric unit?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tehben
> > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > 'hElix EV'
> > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
> >
> >
>
>
--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com
CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders
Quotable Quote
"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow, in the dead of winter, war
spreading, families dying, the world in danger, I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."
Wendell Berry
--- End Message ---
