EV Digest 7032
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: controller max volts and motors in series
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: How to run appliances off your EV pack (to Bill D. please)
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: How to run appliances off your EV pack (was: 12vdc/120vac
inverter)
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Electric Evette
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Energy unit conversion and comparison - units
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: "Team EV" wows PIR crowds at the Wayland Invitational Part2
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: "Team EV" wows PIR crowds at the Wayland Invitational Part2
by David Gonzales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: "Team EV" wows PIR crowds at the Wayland Invitational Part2
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Tires, LRR, 1986 Mazda
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: Tires, LRR, 1986 Mazda
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Poor Man's DC Regen possibility
by Markus Lorch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: How to run appliances off your EV pack (was: 12vdc/120vac inverter)
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: The flow of current
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: How to run appliances off your EV pack (was: 12vdc/120vac inverter)
by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Tires, LRR, 1986 Mazda
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Another Tweety adventure...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum)
by "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Another Tweety adventure...
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Another Tweety adventure...
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Poor Man's DC Regen possibility
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: FW: Another Tweety adventure...
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ok here is some more info on my issue. I need to
decide between two options: a parallel vs series motor
setup. I have two 48 volt PM [eteks] linked together.
And plan on using AGMs right now. I need to decide
between buying a kelly 48 volt 600 amp or a 84 volt
600 amp. If I go with the 48 volt controller and run
the motors in parallel I can run them to their max
power at 48 volts, but I will have high amps. If I
run them with 84 volt in series I will need to lower
the voltage to 42 volts each, but I can I run lower
amps plus if I have the option of getting lithium
batteries it might be a better match [lower amps] and
I should be able to raise the voltage a bit [right now
with 12 volt batteries the choices are 84 or 96 [which
is two much for the controller?]]
i assume the AGM battery power is basically the same
between the to options i'm more interested in the
choice between parallel or series motor setup for best
efficiency
--- dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> regarding the 84v kelly controller it states that it
> has a max voltage of 100v, but if i use a 96 volt
> pack
> of AGMs they will have a starting voltage a bit over
> 100v at full charge. will the controller shut down
> above 100v or just limit voltage to 100v?
>
> does any one know much about kelly controllers?
> quality?
>
> also i'm having a hard time convincing my self that
> motors in series work [sorry i don't have an EE
> background]. just to check: it is possible to
> arrange
> two motors in such away that if i apply 96 volts
> they
> each receive 48 volts?
>
> thanks again for all the list's help
>
> Albuquerque, NM
> http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1221
> http://geocities.com/solarcookingman
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small
> Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
>
>
Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1221
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play
Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob, it's a Coleman Powermate 1000. It has a 2000W peak surge
capability. Sometimes, the frig kicking in when all the pumps are going
does put it over the top, but usually it's okay. Overnight, I usually
turn off the frig so I can be sure the heating pumps stay on. One key
is also to have a large Ah 12V battery, so that when the surge kicks in,
the voltage stays high enough for the Powermate not to drop out for
undervoltage.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all:
>> > Exeltech does make inverters that take up to 120 volts DC input. I
>> > think it's their XP series. The largest one they have is 1100 watts I
>> > believe. They do not have the automatic transfer switches and such
>> > that the Xantrex and Outback have though.
I have that Exeltech inverter in my truck as I need it to run tools on the
ranch. It works quite reliably and powers all the tools (trimmers,
electric chainsaw .. ) I need. The other day my truck was parked way out
in the pasture and powered the electric fence. I forgot to charge the
fencer batteries and had to use the 110V fencer in order to keep the
cattle confined. It even ran a small electric heater while we were out
hunting last winter.
All in all I wouldn't want to miss it.
mm./
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Exactly. Like Mike, I find that on this list, we
> all
> have different requirements. My EV requirements
> included airbags; room for electric guitar &
> amplifier; room for entire family; thus my Civic.
> I'm
> hooked on that model of glider, but I'm still
> impressed by the people on the list who built for
> racing, and those that converted trucks, knowing
> they
> would likely only be moving their own tush, and
> perhaps a load of landscaping stuff...
>
> --- Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Tom,
> >
> > I think you are missing several key points. Your
> > position seems to
> > be that your creation is so superior in every way
> to
> > an EV conversion
> > that to build anything else would be a waste of
> > time. Holding ones
> > work in high regard is reasonable, but to treat
> all
> > others with
> > disdain is not a way to win friends and influence
> > people. It is
> > quite probably that most conversions would have
> > difficulty matching
> > you projected battery percentage. I am sure
> however
> > that this
> > advantage has nothing to do with your two/three
> > wheel configuration
> > and everything to do with the fact you were able
> to
> > start from
> > scratch so to speak. I am quite confidant that
> your
> > numbers could
> > not only be matched but far exceeded while still
> > maintaining a four
> > wheel layout. Most of us are interested in owning
> > and driving an
> > electric car. Honestly, the Evette is kind of
> cool,
> > but I can't
> > imaging driving it year-round in real traffic and
> > real weather. I
> > can't tell from the pictures, but does it even
> have
> > side windows? I
> > mean, if we are going to throw all the creature
> > comforts out in the
> > name of max range, haven't we missed the point of
> > traveling?
> >
> > Have you actually driven the Evete with 1600
> pounds
> > of batteries in it?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Chancey,
> > '88 Civic EV
> > Kansas City, Missouri
> > EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> > My Electric Car at:
> > http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> > Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> > Join the EV List at:
> > http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
> >
> > In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate,
> > not the extreme
> > position. (Horace)
> >
> >
>
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch
> too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came
> out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas
> for your kids?
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network
> Research Panel today!
>
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? For $20 DVD you can purchase footage of my
'92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at: www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for
today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"I think, ACRX efficiency could end up better simply because open top
roadster has horrible Cd - about 0.7 believe it or not"
Even the the Tesla Roadster doesn't look to aerodynamic it actually
has a drag of coefficient of .30
I'm assuming they mean with the hard top of course.
7/15/07, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jim, thanks for posting this link.
This article reports that Tesla roadster consumes 110Wh/km
(176 Wh/mile). This is very good, I wish they'd say at what
speed though.
Driving to PIR (Wayland Int'l events) for 2 days I've done
measurement on my ACRX and if correct, can report that it beats
Tesla roadster in this respect: 106.25 Wh/km (170 Wh/mile) at 55 mph!
That is with 40 PSI tires but wrong type (soft wall) ones.
Skinny and hard tires, while reducing ride comfort will likely
result in even better efficiency.
I would have to make accurate measurements in both directions
to confirm my figures though, didn't have a chance to do it yet.
I think, ACRX efficiency could end up better simply because open top
roadster has horrible Cd - about 0.7 believe it or not;
this is similar to a motorcycle in that respect. So at any high
enough speed it would not be too hard to surpass roadster's
efficiency. In contrast, slippery ACRX's Cd is 0.29.
What I've done is made certain the rear drum brakes don't
drag (they use to due to the parking brake cable bent too much) and
re-packed front wheels bearings making sure they are not over tight,
and I think mainly because I recently installed full body belly pan
as one sheet under entire car length. Here are couple of photos
of this:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/bellypan1.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/bellypan2.jpg
My toe in is set to zero, which certainly helps too. No issues
with handling :-)
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Jim Bundscho wrote:
> There is an excellent article about energy conversion
> using joules as the basic unit for measure. It is
> well footnoted with resources and support documents.
>
> http://www.teslamotors.com/display_data/twentyfirstcenturycar.pdf
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
Well, lets see how much I can get out before I crash
and burn 8^) I crashed a bit plus my wife got home so
had to share with her, lol. finished as much as I
could for tonight.
It took the guys just an hour to fasten the A123 pack
into the White Zombie which barely allowed me time to
say hello to EVeryone there and it was awesome to see
all the people who came out in support and I'm
guessing to watch John and Tim try to break shit 8^P
This fact alone generally causes huge mother hen
tendencies for me. Being Killacycle was also there
looking to push as hard as they could, I was feeling
just a tad bit stressed 8^o I tell you, there really
is nothing like having both nuts on the chopping block
praying they're not gonna crack when they get hit with
the full weight of 374 volts of A123 furry dropping
down on them 8^o Enforced by the fact that regardless
of outcome, this was going to be caught on film, so
yeah like I say I was a little stressed 8^)
We arrived to a pretty packed track around seven I
believe and setup camp. I found myself bouncing
between camps looking to help anyway I could and to
thank my little spartan warrior motors for fighting so
well 8^) They like it when I egg them on ;^)
I saw that the Siamese8 was pulling a little harder on
the front side motor which I actually liked as it was
the back side armature that got pretty hurt with the
March flashover. Neither John or I had the money (nor
the time EVen) to buy a new one, so I patched it up
and put it back into battle, so I'm really proud of
the little trooper 8^)
Killacycles motors while getting pretty hot appeared
to be taking it all in stride, not unlike a pair of
Huskies panting on a mid-summers day after a hard run
or motors after getting attacked by 990 A123 cells,
LMAO! 8^o
After one brutal WZ run I shot out of the bleachers
after the time flashed to egg the motors on again 8^)
Several people start freaking out, screaming that the
car was on fire (including John). It was the funniest
damn thing to watch Wayland jam both arms in the air
(like a reff calling a fieldgoal) as Tim told John via
cel phone that the car was fine, the throttle had
stuck and he had to create yet another plasma ball
inside of poor Zombie, although at least this one was
controlled 8^)
Tim told me he talked to the gal racing behind him who
thought her car was on fire as it filled with smoke.
Toward the end of the night John asked me in front of
the whole gang if I was worried about the motors when
it happened. I replyed that I really wasn't that
much, as I had been praying to God for it to be the
batteries 8^o LMAO. Steve or Derick yelled back that
that was cold blooded, which I responded back, don't
you tell me that you weren't praying for it to be the
motor! Which he conceeded to the laughter of the
crowd. In the end it was neither and resulted in sear
customer abuse. In fact I almost wondered if since
they failed to break anything they had decided to just
crash the car 8^P
The first night ended and we headed home. John had
promised Mike a ride home and with somewhat square
tires it sounds like John had to Evette Mike there now
8^o Not the only car that can run on two wheels,
LMAO. I had asked John if he wanted me to follow him
but he said no he'd be fine.
About 1:45 I was both worried and falling asleep in
his frontyard waiting with his keys and to pull my
truck in after WZ as I had Mikes motors on board.
Here comes WZ being towed and you could see the front
end bobbling up and down limping like an injured
animal. As John and I pushed WZ into the garage I
thought about how much abuse that old car has taken
over the years. As the lights went out I told him he'd
done pretty good for an old man and patted him on the
trunk 8^) I then said goodnight to WZ 8^P and crawled
into my 3/4 man tent. Ohhh they call it a one man but
that's some hype salemanship, LMAO.
As I drifted off to sleep I couldn't contain just a
couple of smiles over what I felt was a great first
day and fell asleep sometime after 2am.
I awoke Saturday morning to Tom True rattling my toy
tent saying we were late. Awaking in the fetal
position (as this is what the tent space allows) I
felt like someone had kicked sand in my eyes and had
somehow caused the sun to come up at 2:05. I thought
damn that Mike Willmon and his 22 hour Alaska days 8^o
Boy did I need some coffee, so when Wayland asked me
to tow him to the show I was on it. They serve it to
ya by the pot there so I hung out there as John went
back to fetch Blue Meanie and the rest of the guys.
At one point after breakfast I see John talking to two
big police officers and he turns and points to me 8^o
I'm thinking crap what'd I do now 8^) I'm figuring
John's blaming me for hotroding the Zombie last night
at 1am, hell the motors are working fine what's he
need me for right, LMAO! Turns out the one wants to
do an EV and wants my name and number which I give.
He looks at me with that cop look and says to me
should I call your name in, hahaha? I said should I
charge you double, hehehe 8^o I told him if nothing
else Google gives me a clean record 8^)
We all retired to the Juice bar and worked off our
breakfast swapping stories and mingling. John had a
spare set of tires so the Zombie would stop its
limping.
Later I was out in front when I see this white 72
Datsun driving by, I yell out to Tim, hey, there goes
a new WZ donor, hehehe! Turns out the guy was headed
for Johns and parked (knew of John somehow) Anyway we
ended up getting an awesome before and after
performance data as the guy raced it. In fact WZ's
11.47 Satureday night run was against its OEM ICE evil
twin 8^o I thought it was perfect 8^)
Although Killacycle wasn't able to break it's record
it was a much sought after race to watch. In fact you
could tell when WZ or KC was about to run as the
bleacher doubled in watchers. Killacycle did manage
to do it's best 60' time, it's best 1/8th mile time,
and it's best overall speed, all on the same run but
did it just 3/100th of a second slower than it's best
time.
In fact that still boggles my mind actually and kind
of shows how EVerything has to come together for those
record runs. The announcer said it was the fastest
60' times seen at PIR so they sure made the crowds
happy they came out. The bike ran nice and consistant
and I told Bill that it's proven it isn't some one hit
wonder so to speak as it blasted out another fine
weekend of racing 8^)
I'll have to wrap this post up now as I'm whiped and
crashing hard. I had a blast and I hope all who
attended did as well. Anyway I hope you all enjoyed.
I still feel that there is so much more to tell but
it'll have to wait.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
This is my first post here I hope I don't break any
community rules. I've read the EV list from time to
time over the last few years, but never had anything
to actually contribute until now.
Here's some thoughts on Saturday night:
Killacycle - wow! what a sound, a big explosive
scrrrrsh, followed by a loud and long whooooosh. 8.22
second 1/4 mile is what I recall the sign saying Sat.
night.
White Zombie. Like a slingshot. All I saw was the
taillights way up the track (race was at 10:48 PM
saturday night). 11.466 @ 114.08 seconds. The timeslip
is here:
http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/ev
1911 Milburn Electric. Classic, timeless, simple
elegance. Nearly one hundred years later it can be
plugged in to be charged, then driven across town!
EV community. A great friendly bunch of people.
Thanks.
I happened to get video of the Saturday night "little
explosion" of White Zombie that occured right as we
were being called onto the track. There is a picture
of the sparks here, look closely for the red dots in
front of the car (I think it was already fading out
when I got the camera to focus on it). It was only
about four feet from me, and the lane guy freaked out
yelling Fire! and ran to get an extinguisher:
http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/ev
It was a bummer it happened then (7:47 pm) as the TV
camera guy was around. Three hours later when WZ ran
again -- and made the record time -- I think he was
gone.
David
Seattle, Washington USA
P.S: Yes, I was driving the "evil twin". It was the
first time ever a bunch of people ran over to my old
Datsun, it was a bit scary. I think they wanted to rip
its heart out and use the body parts for White Zombie.
Or something.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the pics Dave. It was nice meeting you there. I particularly like
your comment under the pic of Rudman pushing the
Zombie, about being glad john "added lightness" ;-)
It was a truly awesome spectacle
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of David Gonzales
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:03 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: "Team EV" wows PIR crowds at the Wayland Invitational Part2
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> This is my first post here I hope I don't break any
> community rules. I've read the EV list from time to
> time over the last few years, but never had anything
> to actually contribute until now.
>
>
> Here's some thoughts on Saturday night:
>
> Killacycle - wow! what a sound, a big explosive
> scrrrrsh, followed by a loud and long whooooosh. 8.22
> second 1/4 mile is what I recall the sign saying Sat.
> night.
>
> White Zombie. Like a slingshot. All I saw was the
> taillights way up the track (race was at 10:48 PM
> saturday night). 11.466 @ 114.08 seconds. The timeslip
> is here:
> http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/ev
>
> 1911 Milburn Electric. Classic, timeless, simple
> elegance. Nearly one hundred years later it can be
> plugged in to be charged, then driven across town!
>
> EV community. A great friendly bunch of people.
> Thanks.
>
>
> I happened to get video of the Saturday night "little
> explosion" of White Zombie that occured right as we
> were being called onto the track. There is a picture
> of the sparks here, look closely for the red dots in
> front of the car (I think it was already fading out
> when I got the camera to focus on it). It was only
> about four feet from me, and the lane guy freaked out
> yelling Fire! and ran to get an extinguisher:
> http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/ev
> It was a bummer it happened then (7:47 pm) as the TV
> camera guy was around. Three hours later when WZ ran
> again -- and made the record time -- I think he was
> gone.
>
> David
> Seattle, Washington USA
>
> P.S: Yes, I was driving the "evil twin". It was the
> first time ever a bunch of people ran over to my old
> Datsun, it was a bit scary. I think they wanted to rip
> its heart out and use the body parts for White Zombie.
> Or something.
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello?
Anybody there?
Um... Recommendations?
Ed Cooley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
07/13/2007 20:51
Please respond to
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
cc
Subject
Tires, LRR, 1986 Mazda
I'm trying to find some nice tires - C Load Rating (for 2000 pounds of
lead) - 6 ply or better, rather than the standard passenger tires that
originally came on the truck:
P195 (or 205)/75 R14.
A couple of places that I've been to say, sure, we've got those.. no...
wait... sorry, we can't get those.
Can I put standard passenger tires on the truck?
I'd like to get hard tires, but even in the $100 range, the 2 places I've
checked say that they can't get the tires I want (michelin).
Recommendations?
Thanks!
Ed Cooley
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Crap.
I had sorted by subject, and forgot to recall that "re:" would be in
front.
Apologies folks...
Thanks!
Ed Cooley
Ed Cooley/AO/USR/FTU
07/16/2007 08:14
To
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
cc
Subject
Re: Tires, LRR, 1986 Mazda
Hello?
Anybody there?
Um... Recommendations?
Ed Cooley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
07/13/2007 20:51
Please respond to
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
cc
Subject
Tires, LRR, 1986 Mazda
I'm trying to find some nice tires - C Load Rating (for 2000 pounds of
lead) - 6 ply or better, rather than the standard passenger tires that
originally came on the truck:
P195 (or 205)/75 R14.
A couple of places that I've been to say, sure, we've got those.. no...
wait... sorry, we can't get those.
Can I put standard passenger tires on the truck?
I'd like to get hard tires, but even in the $100 range, the 2 places I've
checked say that they can't get the tires I want (michelin).
Recommendations?
Thanks!
Ed Cooley
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I read that the new generation BMW Mini Cooper (starting in Germany this
August at 18 850 Eur) will be a micro hybrid with a belted
alternator/starter. The motor/generator there should be more powerful
than typical alternators but aimed at charging the 12V system. (during
braking)
http://de.cars.yahoo.com/25052007/292/start-stopp-mini-sparsamer.html
Mike Chancey schrieb:
<div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">Belt drive
regen has been done. The now defunct Solar Car Corp offered it as an
option years ago. See:
http://www.evalbum.com/tech/regen.jpg
I wish these were still available. Anyone know a rewinding shop that
could rewind an alternator like this?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
</div>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The 300 volt solar inverters are not self commutating -- they require
an AC input signal before they will turn on. Plus, their software
assumes a finite source and infinite load, rather than a finite load
and (effectively) infinite source like a standalone inverter. Maybe
you could hack the software, but it probably wouldn't be easy.
Z
On 7/15/07, Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have been wondering the same thing hoping to be able to use power
tools and an electric chainsaw from my battery pack.
I just remembered that they do make inverters for up to like 300v for
solar power systems. I wonder if they make one that will charge
batteries and generate ac...
On 7/15/07, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Outback inverters are the same as the Xantrex SW series -- 48
> volts is the highest voltage (Same group of engineers designed most of
> them). Not the most practical to require your series/parallel
> connections of the car battery pack every time you need backup power,
> I think.
>
> Exeltech does make inverters that take up to 120 volts DC input. I
> think it's their XP series. The largest one they have is 1100 watts I
> believe. They do not have the automatic transfer switches and such
> that the Xantrex and Outback have though.
>
> A note on running things on DC. Yes, alot off things don't care
> whether it's AC or DC, as long as its somewhere around the right
> voltage. However, switches are one thing that have trouble with DC
> due to it's propensity to arc. Turning it on or off under power may
> lead to pretty short switch lifetime when used on DC.
>
> Z
>
> On 7/15/07, Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Guys, it's remarkable you're checking into this right
> > now, as I was just doing the same thing this week.
> >
> > Obviously, the higher the voltage, the lower the
> > current draw. Thus l would _love_ an inverter that
> > went up to the voltage of my pack, 144V, and could
> > pull 6A to power my fridge, plus another few amps for
> > lights, fans, etc. in a rolling blackout or brownout
> > event.
> >
> > Xantrex: ProSine model up to 24V, yields 1800W. Would
> > be around $1800-2500 IIRC.
> >
> > Dear Mr. Bath,
> >
> > Thank you for contacting Solatron Technologies for
> > your power inverting needs. I spoke to our Technical
> > Manager regarding your desire to power the home with
> > the electric car battery during utility power outages.
> > He stated that although this is possible if you are
> > able to rewire the 144 volt electric car battery to a
> > 48 volt system, if the power outages are frequent or
> > long lasting, he would recommend a separate battery
> > bank altogether.
> >
> > A separate battery bank would allow for charging via
> > an inverter and the utility grid power. Once the
> > utility power was down, the inverter system would pull
> > power back from the batteries directly to a sub panel
> > dedicated to the emergency loads only.
> >
> > If you can confirm the size/type batteries being used
> > on the electric car and that they can be rewired to a
> > 48 volt system, we can make a recommendation on a
> > complete inverter system. Most likely, you would want
> > to utilize the Xantrex SW5548 inverter, which is
> > priced at $2,750.
> >
> > I look forward to hearing back from you.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Diana Howell
> >
> > PV Powered: Uses the grid to get what the sine wave
> > "looks" like. Thus, it is useless in this
> > application.
> >
> > Outback: Still waiting to hear from.
> >
> > Hope that helps,
> >
> > --- "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > No, I'm not suggesting you use 12v to power it.
> > > This would be
> > > double-conversion in any event.
> > >
> > > You crack open the inverter and inject your pack
> > > voltage after the first
> > > DC-DC boost stage.
> > >
> > > It's easy to calculate the load at 12v. Amps X
> > > volts = Watts.
> > >
> > > 3000 Watts divided by 12 volts is 250 amps. This is
> > > not including
> > > efficiency losses. It'll likely be around 270A for
> > > a cheap inverter.
> > >
> > > There are no EV DC-DC converters that will get
> > > anywhere close to this.
> > >
> > > The other option is to run your loads directly off
> > > the DC pack voltage.
> > > Many modern AC loads will also with DC directly:
> > > Computers, both Laptops and desktops
> > > TV sets (more modern ones)
> > > Electric heaters (without fan motors!)
> > > Compact Fluorescent lamps
> > > Incandescent lamps
> > > Inverter driven Microwave ovens
> > >
> > > Just about anything WITHOUT a iron-core in it
> > > somewhere is generally ok.
> > > This means all of these are a no-no on DC:
> > > heavy wall-wart powered stuff (light ones like
> > > laptops use are ok)
> > > AC motors
> > > refrigeration equipment
> > > Air compressors
> > > Small things like Clock-radios (usually contain a
> > > transformer)
> > >
> > > Things that might be OK with motors are those things
> > > with brushed motors,
> > > such as an angle grinder or many vacuum cleaners,
> > > etc.
> > >
> > > If you wish to experiment, buy a glass fuse
> > > assortment and make up a little
> > > cable with an in-line fuse holder and standard
> > > outlet on the end. Look at
> > > the nameplate of the appliance, choose a fuse close
> > > to the amperage rating
> > > and install it in the fuseholder. This is for
> > > safety. (Disclaimer: Running
> > > devices designed for AC on DC can be unsafe for the
> > > device, yourself, and
> > > the surrounding environment!) Plug the appliance
> > > in. If it doesn't work,
> > > or work correctly, try reversing the polarity
> > > quickly. If it still doesn't
> > > work, unplug it right away to avoid possible damage.
> > > If it does appear to
> > > work, then test all the functions, if it appears to
> > > be normal you can add it
> > > to your list. Note that some power supplies will
> > > not start correctly on one
> > > polarity, so try both.
> > >
> > > Make sure nothing gets hot when run for a bit. I've
> > > run many compact
> > > fluorescent lights, computers, TV sets, etc, off of
> > > a 144v volt pack
> > > successfully.
> > >
> > > If you find you can run most of your load this way,
> > > then you may be able to
> > > get by with a small inverter off your 12v system for
> > > the few things which
> > > don't like DC.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Phil
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bill & Nancy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:47 AM
> > > Subject: 12vdc/120vac inverter
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Phil,
> > > > I have been looking at this situation myelf. I was
> > > looking for a 3000 watt
> > > > inverter and found several using the above search
> > > words. I found some
> > > > staring at around $400 to $2000.
> > > > Most sites don't list the amperage pull on the
> > > 12volt battery. One site
> > > > listed the amperage draw on their unit as 192
> > > amps. The dc/dc for most
> > > > ev's only put out 30-45 amps, so the battery would
> > > be unable to hold it's
> > > > charge nore than an hour. Let me know if you
> > > figure a way around this
> > > > limitation.
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> > has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> > Learn more at:
> > www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> > ____
> > __/__|__\ __
> > =D-------/ - - \
> > 'O'-----'O'-'
> > Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
--
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com
CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders
Quotable Quote
"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."
Wendell Berry
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On 7/15/07, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Bad idea. If it's a series wound motor, using 48V on a 30V motor and no
load (clutch disengaged) will pretty much guarantee the motor will rapidly
accelerate to self dissassembly speed.
It's an aircraft generator, which behaves more like a sepex motor, if
I recall. Also, that will make it a little hard to find speed-torque
curves, since it was never really intended for use as a motor.
Z
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Could one use a cheap 100W inverter like plugs into a 12V cigarette
lighter to provide commutation?
Just a thought...
Trot, the gray, fox...
On 7/16/07, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The 300 volt solar inverters are not self commutating -- they require
an AC input signal before they will turn on. Plus, their software
assumes a finite source and infinite load, rather than a finite load
and (effectively) infinite source like a standalone inverter. Maybe
you could hack the software, but it probably wouldn't be easy.
Z
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
--- End Message ---
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* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
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I guess everyone is probably tired of hearing “Tweety” adventures, but,
sorry, I just gotta tell this one.
While slaving away stuffing circuit boards, I ran out of solder. This
is Saturday, so the only place I can get some is Fry’s. I hop in
Tweety and head out for the supplies. On the way, I pull up to a red
light on Parmer Lane (6 Lane Boulevard). I am in the far right lane.
Not much traffic. Two cars pull up next to me and start racing their
motors at each other. It seems clear that they are planning a race.
The light turns green and the two cars go into full scream mode. I
pressed just enough to keep them in my rear view mirror. It never got
over 250 amps – well, not much over. Stopped at the next light, the
two cars pulled up next to me again. The person in the middle lane
screamed, “What the H#@@ is that!” I said, “It’s just an electric
personal commuter car”. His face was twisted in disgust, confusion and
amazement.
I guess that’s the first time I ever “crashed” a race! Another car,
that witnessed the race, followed me all the way to Fry’s where I had
to spend almost half an hour of show and tell. The crowd just kept
growing! But that’s ok. It’s all good!
Ken
Note: for those who haven’t heard, Tweety is my wife’s yellow NmG.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/983
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking of installing a 12V gauge to monitor my aux battery
(and DC/DC converter by proxy) and a vacuum gauge to make sure all is
well with my brakes.
Before i buy them, I was wondering if others have such gauges or are
they unnecessary?
Thanks
--
Brian in TX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
really quite busy.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<snip>
I guess that's the first time I ever "crashed" a race! Another car,
that witnessed the race, followed me all the way to Fry's where I had
to spend almost half an hour of show and tell. The crowd just kept
growing! But that's ok. It's all good!
Ford Mustang (or whatever ;) with custom mods: $60,000
Beating two of em at a stoplight drag race in a bright yellow electric
trike: PRICELESS
:-)
Good on yah! This story made my day.
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just another outstanding story, I love hearing them,
don't stop posting your encounters. As a matter of
fact, I wish you'd install a video camera on the back
of TWEETY so we can see them in the dust, when you
postem on YouTube. LOL
> I guess everyone is probably tired of hearing
> âTweetyâ adventures, but,
> sorry, I just gotta tell this one.
>
M. Barkley
www.texomaev.com
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1135
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm.
You could use a small DC Gen Head, attach it to the main drive (if
possible, directly in line). I'm guessing you would be able to find
some of those rebuilt, surplus, etc for not all that much money.
Or if you knew a thing or two, you could get a small DC motor and
fiddle with it to make it a better generator :)
'I'm assuming this is not a crazy idea, but if it is please chime in
from the expert gallery!
--T
On 6/26/07, Roger Daisley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
With my VW DC conversion nearing an end, while driving to town in my ICE
machine, I noticed the series of rolling hills I passed over; not too high,
but high enough to sap a bit of excess power on the up hills while
recovering nothing on the down hill.
I began to ponder: What if I belted up an ICE alternator, equipped with an
automobile air conditioner electric clutch, on the useless end of the main
DC drive motor and triggered the clutch with a brake light switch?
My question is: Would this recover enough energy to warrant setting it up?
Surely, someone has tried some variation of this idea.
Roger Daisley
Pullman, WA
http://ElectricVW.blogspot.com
--
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in
peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the
hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may
posterity forget that you were our countrymen.
-----Samuel Adams
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I for one look forward to, and save most of, Tweety's adventures!
Thanks for posting them.
Stay Charged!
Hump
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 10:07 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Another Tweety adventure...
>
> I guess everyone is probably tired of hearing "Tweety" adventures, but,
> sorry, I just gotta tell this one.
>
> While slaving away stuffing circuit boards, I ran out of solder. This
> is Saturday, so the only place I can get some is Fry's. I hop in
> Tweety and head out for the supplies. On the way, I pull up to a red
> light on Parmer Lane (6 Lane Boulevard). I am in the far right lane.
> Not much traffic. Two cars pull up next to me and start racing their
> motors at each other. It seems clear that they are planning a race.
> The light turns green and the two cars go into full scream mode. I
> pressed just enough to keep them in my rear view mirror. It never got
> over 250 amps - well, not much over. Stopped at the next light, the
> two cars pulled up next to me again. The person in the middle lane
> screamed, "What the H#@@ is that!" I said, "It's just an electric
> personal commuter car". His face was twisted in disgust, confusion and
> amazement.
>
> I guess that's the first time I ever "crashed" a race! Another car,
> that witnessed the race, followed me all the way to Fry's where I had
> to spend almost half an hour of show and tell. The crowd just kept
> growing! But that's ok. It's all good!
>
> Ken
>
> Note: for those who haven't heard, Tweety is my wife's yellow NmG.
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/983
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
> =0
--- End Message ---
