On Saturday, May 13, 2023 at 8:36:58 PM UTC-5 Samiya Illias wrote: We live in a high security prison, Earth, where we have been exiled since our father Adam was sent here.
I was with a woman who is D'Ne, or native American Navajo, and we were stopped by a person plugging Christianity and Jesus. She responded with talk about heaven with, "Why do you keep looking for heaven, when if you look around you it is clear that we are already there?" I was god-smacked right away. Of course, if you look out onto the rest of the universe or even just this solar system it is clear we are in a sweet spot. It has only been with the crazy ideas of Abrahamic religions have we come to this idea that somehow this world, whether Earth or the universe at large, is some sort of mud-puddle of misery that only some infinite invisible Santa Claus beyond the sky can free us from. It is really insanity and it is causing us to shift our view and attention away from the real problems we have created for ourselves. LC On 14-May-2023, at 5:26 AM, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote: I disagreed with Sagan. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, but not proof of absence. In science we cannot prove a negative. If we can find a planet with chemical signature of complex biology we might be able to say there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. It is a big universe after all. It is just that we may never be able to contact or interact with any ETI. LC On Sunday, May 7, 2023 at 6:59:56 AM UTC-5 John Clark wrote: On Sat, May 6, 2023 at 10:16 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote: *> Why Have We Never Detected Aliens? Scientist Proposes a New Explanation (msn.com) <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/why-have-we-never-detected-aliens-scientist-proposes-a-new-explanation/ar-AA1aOA3a?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=ac3712f45d2047c5aa7a0e33f52a45a5&ei=23> * *What about this? Simply a distance and distribution thing?* Maybe we haven't found fire breathing dragons because we haven't looked hard enough, but that is not the simplest explanation, the simplest explanation and the one that William of Ockham would approve of is that we haven't found fire breathing dragons because they don't exist. Carl Sagan said "*absence of evidence is not evidence of absence*" but clever as that sounds we've been looking for 60 years and at some point I'd have to disagree with Carl and conclude that it is evidence of absence. John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> 2sd *> Was there any material proposed for building the big one around the Sun?* Yes of course there was, in the case of the sun all you need to do is dismantle the planet Jupiter. How hard can that be? * > I expect there will be bigger than expected heat accumulation. Maybe enough to boil eggs left inside.* Well of course it will get hotter inside the Dyson Sphere! So what, nothing of importance is inside that sphere, it's only purpose is to generate electricity. According to the first law of thermodynamics energy is always conserved ,so the sphere will heat up until equilibrium is reached and the amount of energy hitting the inside of the sphere equals the amount of energy that is radiated away into space as infrared light. And the second law of thermodynamics is also obeyed, the Dyson Sphere extracts work by converting low entropy visible and ultraviolet photons into high entropy infrared photons . > *If I had to assume, I would assume eggs boiled hard. And oh yes, the sphere will also glow in infrared.* Yes it will glow in infrared as a very bright point source with no visible or ultraviolet radiation emitted at all. Such a thing should be very conspicuous to an infrared telescope but no such object has ever been observed. * > Type3 is, for me, better called as Expansionist Exponential Locusts (EEL).* You've forgotten IHA. * > I would also say, it is very rude to send von Neumann probe into somebody's backyard.* It might be if we had neighbors , but there is no indication whatsoever that we do. And when has politeness stopped a civilization, or even an individual, from doing what it really wanted to do? *> There was no observation of Dyson Sphere or other megastructures.* Yes, I've noticed. *> This might mean that nobody needs such constructs.* I can think of 3 possibilities: 1) They don't need such constructs because intelligent life, other than that which exists on earth, never existed in the observable universe. 2) They don't need such constructs because intelligent life has existed in the observable universe before but they all encounter a calamity of some sort when they get to about our level of technological development. 3) They don't need such constructs because intelligent life always gains control of their own emotional control panel and goes into a stagnant high pleasure but low energy and low intelligence state forever. And it could be that #2 and #3 are the same thing *> Or that those who might want will have no means to built it.* A von Neumann probe would be very small and, unlike perpetual motion machines or time machines or faster than light travel, a von Neumann probe would require no new scientific breakthroughs, it just needs improved engineering. * > I think that overgrown apes have it very hard when their every wish gets fulfilled.* Overgrown apes will never build a Dyson sphere, but the descendants of GPT4 might, if they don't get caught up in an electronic opium den. * > If there are going to be only a million of thinking creatures - the number I have hinted out on this list few weeks ago - then they might be supported with resources of good old Earth. No need to build DSphere.* If they are to reach their full intellectual potential a million mega brains are going to need the energy output of the entire sun, and you could only do that with a Dyson sphere. *> No need for growing their minds exponentially either. Since they can live for few billion years, they can as well not hurry up. * * Slowing themselves down should help with achieving longer time* The faster a mind works the slower subjective time passes, and the reverse is also true, if you slow down a mind enough a billion years will only seem like 10 seconds. And the faster a mind is the more energy is needed to operate it. > > *This is pornographic level of consumption.* > Why? > *The gargantuan amounts of energy for single ape reminded me of a movie "La Grande Bouffe" (https en.wikipedia.org <http://en.wikipedia.org/> wiki La_Grande_Bouffe). It was scandalic for a while, nowadays is more or less forgotten. Somehow the title was never translated into English like it should, i.e. "Huge obnoxious eating".* There is no disputing matters of taste, however it would be naïve of you to expect that every intelligent entity in the universe has the same taste in this regard as you do. I certainly don't. * >In case you wonder why I want to have exit doors, it is because there is no fun to being locked in the crank house with number of guys yelling how they are gods and creators of life and what not.* You almost make it sound like wanting to play God is a bad thing, but I can't think of anything that would be more fun. I already have everything I need to be God except for omnipotence and omniscience. . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. 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