On 14 Jan 2014, at 15:13, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Bruno,
Not at all. The list of all possible things in a real world is NOT
infinite.
In what real world?
In all real worlds?
To define "not finite", you need second order logic.
To assume *one* finite reality is close to a blaspheme (grin) in the
everything list.
Some people told me that the step seven is enough for the UDA result
(physics = branch of elementary number theory), as they consider that
a "little finite reality", the way out of comp's consequence) at step
7, is enough "absurdo" for them.
Personally I don't know, that's why there is a step 8.
The possibilities are restricted by the intrinsic nature of the
quantum vacuum.
Can you define "quantum vacuum" without assuming elementary number
theory?
It seems to me that you take "reality" for granted, by ostensive local
and personal pointing.
Alas, I dream often of people doing that to convince me on the reality
of something, and I have developed, apparently, an immunity on that
kind of argument, at least when made public.
On the contrary, I argue that nature has a simple (conceptually)
*reason* to "exist" from the average universal numbers point of view.
For example, you can't get an infinite number of different TYPES of
particles out of the quantum vacuum.
In which theory? As long as quantum gravitation is unclear, I would be
cautious on such statements. I might be interested seeing a proof of
this, in some theory, but even in that case, I would not conclude
anything, unless the theory if extracted from comp, in which case I
would still only make public "comp implies a finite number of type of
particles". Also are anyons particles? Then I doubt your statements
right now, as I can write a quantum computer program generating
infinitely many sort of particles. Of course I will need a powerful
magnet!
The set is very restricted to those actually possible in the
Standard Model...
So you assume the Standard Model.
With comp, that's a sort of treachery. (This is not obvious at all,
but should be understood "easily" from the UD-Argument).
You might appreciate the first seven step of UDA, as they prove this:
Either the physical reality is small, or physics is an arithmetical
self-referential modality.
But step 8 eliminates the left option. I think, although when we talk
on reality, we cannot avoid some use of Occam razor, which can always
be annihilated by strong reification and ontological commitment.
(That's why there are fundamentalists, creationists and people like
that. Nothing can change their mind).
Bruno
Edgar
On Tuesday, January 14, 2014 4:29:02 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 13 Jan 2014, at 20:37, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
> William,
>
> No, it's not the reification fallacy, unless you apply the same
> definition to all theories, none of which are real. Of course
> theories aren't reality.
>
> In any case the quantum vacuum, out of which real particles can
> appear, is a well accepted concept. I just generalize it a little in
> my theory to include everything which could become possible.
Just an advise:
- when working on the fundamentals, avoid terms like "obvious, of
course, etc."
- when working in the interdisciplinary area, avoid terms like "well
accepted".
Note also that if you make a "little" generalization to include all
the possible, your assumed reality is no more finite, and this
contradicts some of your other posts. It is unclear, as your ontology
is unclear.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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