On 17 Mar 2014, at 04:45, Chris de Morsella wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 2:14 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Dalai Lama's Ski Trip
On 16 Mar 2014, at 09:13, Chris de Morsella wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 12:31 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Dalai Lama's Ski Trip
On 15 Mar 2014, at 18:48, Chris de Morsella wrote:
You know I love the french (a bit cynical) poem:
'man had the good,
but he sought the best,
he found the bad,
and kept it,
by fear of the worst.'
Kind regards,
Bruno
Nice... I mean bad :)
Fear becomes, within the hidden unexamined recesses of mind, a self-
driving psychological mechanism, where our fear of something becomes
the thing we fear and begins to take over more and more of the mind
--
if not faced that is.
Facing one's own primal visceral fears is the very hardest thing for
a person to ever do -- IMO -- the mind will try any trick and throw
up its best rationalizations why the fear should remain buried
within
and not be faced. To face one's fears is a painful terrifying
process, but is also the only means of escaping the fate of being
driven by them.
A mind can never awaken as long as it remains primarily driven by
its
unconscious (preconscious maybe is a better word) zombie processes.
Often,
even just recognizing that these exist within us is the hardest
part.
Once recognized, for being what they are, at least the mind becomes
aware of them and can begin to act upon that awareness and in a more
self-aware manner.
Fears can be natural, and usually protect us. It can also become
pathological and obsessive, or (and that is often the case) exploited
by unscrupulous people, like fear of drugs, fear on terror, or the
quasi traditional fear of hells, that humans imitates easily in jails
and camps, during war or peace.
Not entirely sure "self-awareness" is always working in this
setting,
although it could in many cases, but it can also lead to obsession,
and sometimes the inverse of self-awareness can help, like in zen
technic to forget yourself when acting, notably on a battle field. It
is complicated.
Agreed -- fear is often a healthy protective mechanism. Was
referring,
to the cyclic, mental entrapment that we can fall into when we become
afraid of our fears themselves. Fear can grow to fearsome size [I
apologize for the cheap pun] and paralyze the mind in an electric
frenzy of neural panic. When people become paralyzed by fear; their
fear becomes their phobia.
Fear can be an embarrassing friend. It can eat you.
A meditated quiet mind state that has learned to see through its
phobias and hidden fears, is far more adept in the moment... and
synchronized with the flow of time and unfolding experienced
reality..
than the unexamined mind, self-consumed in, elaborate mental
acrobatics to conceal, distract and explain away, and that has buried
large swaths of mind in memory holes, driven to this twisted,
weakened
state of being, by sub-conscious zombie phobias that are the
manifestations of our unexamined fear.
Beginning, of course, with the fear of death... of our very personal
death of the self. This is the mother lode of unexamined fears IMO :)
But for those who manage to see past these fears there is much wonder
in the moment... in the moment that life has given us to experience.
The fear of death is often a fear of life in disguise.
Which pills would you choose between those two pills?
- the first one makes you immortal.
- the second one makes your fear of death disappearing completely.
Salvia is a bit like taking the two pills at once. Unfortunately, or
fortunately (?), you forget the main part of the experience. Yet the
fear of
death can vanish, at least on some subject. Similar "cures"
can come with magic mushrooms and other hallucinogens (or entheogen).
There have been some convincing experiences made on dying subjects.
But with salvia, the contrary can happen, as some people makes
something
like a bad NDE. They understand/hallucinate somehow that they are
immortal,
but without any assurance that the afterlife will be easy, and
sometimes
with the strong feeling that it will not been easy at all. They got
new
fears. Like comp, salvia seems to promise a hell of difficulties to
some
people. There are many possible difficulties, like in the Tibetan
bardo-thodol, and intermediates states or realm between
reincarnations, and
liberations, if that exists. After salvia, some people get the
feeling that
"death" is in fact a form of wishful thinking. Like Otto Rossler said:
consciousness is a prison, and you can't escape it.
I have been curious about Salvia for a while.... and have stepped
through
the doors of perception on a few occasions myself, by other alkaloidal
means.
I know a person, who hit a tormenting, bad place with Salvia and who
has
become obsessed since with visions of trans-dimensional soul devouring
lizard demons, for whom, he now fervently believes our souls are
food....
like chicken nuggets. He has in fact -- at least in my opinion, not
his of
course -- gone stark raving mad... and I have not heard from him in
years..
so who knows if his thread of being even remains in what is we could
say our
shared sub-branch in the MWI multiverse.
Not trying to make sweeping statements about the effects of Salvia;
this is
that one man's tormented outcome.
Well, we might not know the detail, like if using salvia perhaps
combined with some other, perhaps legal, other products.
Like cannabis, and alcohol, salvia might trigger psychosis with people
predisposed or having them dormant.
Salvia "dislikes" easily "others drugs". It cures addiction and
habituations, but it can lead to "unpleasant" experiences when used
with another drug. Of course, you can meet person who will tolerate
some mixing, perhaps for some time, but typically, salvia dislikes
drugs. A small boring aspect of the plant "teaching".
Hope he is fine wherever he is.
I have always had excellent outcomes from all my trips, even on the
two
occasions where I found myself needing to become the existential
spirit
guide for friends who were experiencing very bad trips... and doing
so from
a most altered state myself of peaking experience... Looking back,
very
funny, in the moment it was a matter of life and death for the
person I was
helping through their trip.
It interests me, how complex alkaloids (and other blood brain barrier
transiting psycho-effective compounds) produce such a varying range of
outcomes for different people, as they interact with wet brain
chemistry,
inducing, by their interactions with complex environment of brain
chemistry,
electrical activity (and feedbacks) in the neural networks and even
more
subtly on the dynamic transient waves of synchronous neural
activity.. that
we experience as mind, being and in fact reality itself.... or at
least our
reified models of reality.
The acting of salvinorin (which was called divinorin before) is very
specific, unlike most drugs. And salvia does not participate to the
serotonin circuits.
Note also that salvia is not an alkaloid, as it has no nitrogen atom.
Only Carbon, Oxygen, Hydrogen: C23H28O8.
The emergent mental model... dynamically forming up, out from the
incessant
crackling electric noise of a hundred billion neurons -- all being
little
loud mouthed micro-brains.... a meta process of transient dynamic
pattern
sequences (the tapestry of unfolding being). All this on vast scale
and
computational depth, with massive parallelism etc. on a hundred
trillion
plus vertex network.
Going to watch the reboot of Cosmos on the TV... with my daughter and
wife... within the envelope of our planets magnetosphere. Enjoying
it, as it
emerges... in the moments I manage to experience.
Ciao,
Chris
Ciao,
Bruno
Bruno
Chris
Bruno
Chris
Kim
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