--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "qntmpkt" <qntmpkt@> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <jflanegi@> > > wrote: > > > > > > So the best solution to answer your question is for you to > > > fully realize Enlightenment, waking, dreaming and sleeping. > > > Then you will know beyond any doubt. > > > > This is a typical "neo-Advaitin" reply; a strategy Nisargadatta > > Maharaj fell back on repeatedly rather than saying "I don't > > know". Sorry, this is a poor excuse for addressing the questions > > regarding knowledge and how acquire it. There's either a full, > > or partial answer: saying "find out for yourself" is a cop out. > > No, it really isn't. It's the only honest and useful > answer one can give. Even the 'partial' answers are > all lies, and thus misleading. > > You seem to be assuming that the state of enlight- > enment *can* be described, and the "path" to it > described. I make no such assumption. > > Enlightenment can never be understood, even by those > who are experiencing it. A description, even given > by someone who is experiencing it, will IMO never help > that person to understand enlightenment or help anyone > else to experience it. Descriptions are at best just > something one does to pass the time, in the exact same > way you'd try to describe the taste of a papaya to > someone who has never encountered one. We are talking > about an *experience*. Either you experience it or you > don't.
Sometimes I think that it would be a good idea for those who really believe that enlightenment can be described, and that the descriptions they have been given to them by 'sages' over the centuries are accurate and useful, to step back and ask themselves the Dr. Phil question: "How's that working for you?" In other words, if you're completely convinced that all these descriptions you've read and heard over the years are actually useful at helping you to experience enlightenment, how many times have you personally experienced enlightenment as a result of hearing all these descriptions? I mean, in the case of long-term TMers, you've heard Maharishi describe this state (or states, if you want to get nitpicky) for 30 to 40 years now. Have any of these descriptions ever helped you in any way to *have* the actual experience of these states, or (for those here who have experienced such things) did the experiences just kinda happen on their own, and reveal to you when they did that *none* of the descriptions had even came close? For me it is certainly the latter. The experience of enlightened states of attention renders any previous description of them laughable. I'm saying this because in my opinion (and in the opinion of several teachers I've met), getting hung up on descriptions of enlightenment and trying to come up with the "best" deseription of enlightenment or trying to "understand" enlightenment is an excellent method of never actually experiencing enlightenment. Like many things, the actual value of enlightenment comes from experiencing it, not from thinking about it or talking about it. *In general*, looking at a wide range of spiritual traditions in the world, those traditions that put a lot of emphasis on intellectually describing and "understanding" enlightenment don't actually seem to produce very many instances of enlightenment in their students. By contrast, those traditions I've encountered in which enlightenment experiences are common rarely seem to spend much time discussing descriptions of enlightenment; the students are having too much fun living it to sit around and talk about it... ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Everything you need is one click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
