That is great news about Nori!
~~@~~~~~@~~~~~@~~~~~@~~~~~@~~~~
*Christ beside me, Christ before me, Christ behind me, Christ within me,
Christ beneath me, Christ above me. — **St. Patrick*
On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 2:10 PM Patricia Oliveira <cinzaeamar...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I have experience with subqs.
>
> Nori is really better today! She ate 2 dishes of wet food while i was
> there. She is more active and attentive to what happens.
>
> Neurologist said Nori has a deficiency on the left side of the body, as if
> she had a stroke. It can be because of anemia, an inflammation or even
> malnutrition.
>
> Vet added a brain supplement (MCT's) to Nori's prescription.
>
> Fip isn't discarded but felv also justify this condition so I hope she has
> nothing more.
>
> Vets said maybe Nori can come home tomorrow :)
>
> Thank you!
>
> Patrícia
>
>
> Em sáb, 8 de jun de 2019 às 23:23, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> escreveu:
>
>> One option is to ask your vet to show you how to give her subcutaneous
>> fluids, which I do all the time for my cats if needed. However, for now, it
>> makes sense to leave her there I guess. I presume they are warming the IV
>> fluids too, because again, with such a small kitten, it wouldn’t take much
>> to chill her if the fluids are at room temperature or colder.
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess it’s just me. I am pretty adamant about taking home my cats
>> whenever possible, but I understand that Nori sounds like she needs some
>> extra help. I just find that the cats respond far better to personal
>> cuddling and love, and this makes them feel better, eat more, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hopefully, she will feel better tomorrow.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m crossing my fingers for you and Nori.
>>
>>
>>
>> Amani
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> * On Behalf Of
>> *Patricia
>> Oliveira
>> *Sent:* June 8, 2019 9:53 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>>
>>
>>
>> She has fluids IV all the time and replenishment of potassium. Receives
>> external heating too.
>>
>>
>>
>> They monitor pressure (low sometimes), oxygenation, temperature and heart
>> rate several times a day.
>>
>> I wish she could come home soon but she has been dehydrated even with
>> fluids IV. I don´t know if it is safe to bring her now.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Em sáb, 8 de jun de 2019 às 22:03, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
>> escreveu:
>>
>> Patricia
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree with you that it is too early to tell, but for sure it is good
>> news that the haematocrit is moving in the right direction. Very good news
>> on the rosy gingiva.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rouleaux is likely only due to the transfusion. She appears to have had a
>> bit of transfusion reaction, so the cells may be sticking to one another as
>> a result. (Red cells in Rouleaux formation means that the look like a stack
>> of coins – one on top of the other. In humans, that presentation is
>> consistent with multiple myeloma. I don’t think it means anything right now
>> other than the new red cells may be reacting a bit with her own cells).
>>
>>
>>
>> I think she is working through the transfusion reaction, so that is
>> likely why she is sleeping because you said that immediately after the
>> transfusion, she was active and eating on her own.
>>
>>
>>
>> Low platelets are consistent with the FeLV presentation and the impact on
>> the bone marrow. Hopefully, the Stanozolol will help. I seem to recall that
>> with my Zander, I had the red cell numbers recover first, before the
>> platelets recovered.
>>
>>
>>
>> I presume they have her on a heating pad to keep her body temperature up.
>>
>>
>>
>> I suspect it might be premature to look at the neurology right now. She
>> is working through a lot, and is a tiny kitten. She needs to be given time
>> to recover from the transfusion reaction, and to allow the good food and
>> medication to start to work. I don’t know how a neurological diagnosis
>> could help you now, and one would expect the neurologist will have a
>> difficult time seeing a true neurological deficit, with all the rest of the
>> stuff happening.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would also suggest that at some point, it is better for her to be with
>> you at home. If they are not giving her anything like fluids, you might
>> consider taking her home with you. I know with Zander, he reacted most
>> strongly when I was there with him. I could get him to play a little bit
>> and that made him feel better, and of course, lots of cuddles and kisses.
>>
>>
>>
>> Amani
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> *On Behalf Of
>> *Patricia
>> Oliveira
>> *Sent:* June 8, 2019 8:52 PM
>> *To:* Sandra Wachtstetter <swacht1...@comcast.net>;
>> felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you, Sandra :)
>>
>>
>>
>> I visited Nori today. The hospital is in another city so I can't go there
>> every day.
>>
>>
>>
>> She is a rosy gingiva, but continues to sleep most of the time and with a
>> low temperature. One of the veterinarians there thinks that temperature is
>> lower because of malnutrition, she has almost no lean mass and no fat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nori will go through the evaluation of a neurologist tomorrow. Some
>> hypotheses raised for this prostration are neurological, including a
>> possible hypoxia before the first transfusion when her hematocrit was
>> really low.
>>
>>
>>
>> Her blood work today is 30% hematocrit, the higher till now! So i think
>> red cells aren´t being destroyed anymore, is it right or is it early to
>> know?
>>
>>
>>
>> Some red cells in Rouleaux. Leukocytes are still high (> 26.000), low
>> platelets for the first time (92.000).
>>
>>
>>
>> Nori had an echocardiogram today too and it is ok.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrícia
>>
>>
>>
>> Em sáb, 8 de jun de 2019 às 11:40, Sandra Wachtstetter <
>> swacht1...@comcast.net> escreveu:
>>
>> Hello Patricia, you may already be doing this - but if not, please take a
>> copy of Amani's conversations for the vet to read - may help.
>>
>> Good luck - don't give up!!
>>
>> Sandt W
>>
>>
>>
>> On June 7, 2019 at 9:55 PM Patricia Oliveira <cinzaeamar...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Nori did not want to eat by herself so they are syringing food. They
>> started another medication for nausea, although she does not vomit, they
>> think that may be why she does not eat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Blood work showed changes in neutrophils (bizarre core?), veternary says
>> it can be from leukemia.
>>
>>
>>
>> The result of this transfusion was not as good as the other time :(
>>
>>
>>
>> i´ll talk to veterinary tomorrow morning again.
>>
>>
>>
>> thank you!
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrícia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Em sex, 7 de jun de 2019 às 16:13, Amani Oakley < aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
>> escreveu:
>>
>> Still sounds more like a transfusion reaction than anything with the meds.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hang in there. See what the afternoon labs show.
>>
>>
>>
>> Amani
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> *On Behalf Of
>> *Patricia
>> Oliveira
>> *Sent:* June 7, 2019 1:44 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi, Amani
>>
>>
>>
>> Nori is receiving doxy+prenisolone+stanazolol even in the hospital.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know it can be a reaction but i thought higher dose of prednisolone
>> would prevent hemolysis.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also know it's normal for part of the red blood cells to be cleared
>> right after the transfusion, but i don´t remember if it was icteric plasma
>> on last one.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was hopefull she would come back home tomorrow, now i don´t know if it
>> will be possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> Today she must have am echocardiogram too because x-ray showed an
>> enlarged heart.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Em sex, 7 de jun de 2019 às 14:18, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
>> escreveu:
>>
>> Hi Patricia
>>
>>
>>
>> The Stanozolol often has a side-effect of elevating liver enzymes, though
>> I cannot remember if it also increased bilirubin (which would be what would
>> cause the icteric observation of the plasma). However, hang in there. If it
>> is the Stanozolol, my experience is that the liver enzymes drop right back
>> to normal, shortly after it is discontinued, and there is no lasting damage
>> to the liver. For now, what you have described (low temp and slightly lower
>> heart rate) seems more likely to be related to the transfusion itself,
>> rather than anything else going on.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is also possible that with the additional transfusion, there is a
>> higher than normal red cell destruction going on, which would be another
>> explanation for the increased icterus in the blood (which will also show as
>> an increase in bilirubin). Elevated bilirubin can often be caused by a
>> reaction to a blood transfusion. If the high bilirubin is the indirect or
>> the unconjugated portion, it is related to red cell break down. The direct
>> bilirubin (conjugated portion) is related to liver function. The lab
>> results are usually broken down to Total bilirubin and Direct bilirubin.
>> The indirect portion is obtained by subtracting the direct amount from the
>> total amount.
>>
>>
>>
>> I myself went through the pressure of the vets wanting me to discontinue
>> the Stanozolol because of abnormal liver enzymes. My logic was that there
>> was nothing else. If I discontinued the Stanozolol, my cat would die,
>> period. I continued and found that in the end, the liver enzymes normalized
>> on their own, even though I had Zander on almost continuous Stanozolol for
>> close to two years.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know that you know that you are only temporarily helping Nori with
>> blood transfusions, and the virus is still attacking cells, etc. In my
>> opinion – and mine alone – my experience and research leads me to the
>> conclusion that the combination of Doxycycline/Prednisone/Stanozolol worked
>> to not only boost the red cell production, but I believe that the
>> Doxycyline assisted in keeping the viruses from properly reproducing.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, anticipate that when the vet gets back the second set of blood
>> work, she may well try to tell you to discontinue the Stanozolol.
>>
>>
>>
>> Amani
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> *On Behalf Of
>> *Patricia
>> Oliveira
>> *Sent:* June 7, 2019 12:53 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi, Amani!
>>
>>
>>
>> Nori got another transfusion last night, hematocrit was 11.9 before it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Today morning, i talk to the hospital's veterinarian, she said hematocrit
>> went to 29 and Nori was fine, all normal parameters and eating by herself
>> again.
>>
>>
>>
>> But plasma was intensely icteric. I think this means red cells being
>> destroyed, isn't it?
>>
>>
>>
>> About one hour ago, veterinarian said Nori was with low temperature and
>> heart rate slightly lower than normal. She was waiting the new blood work.
>> In the morning, it was done only hematocrit, not complete blood work.
>>
>>
>>
>> i am worried again.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrícia
>>
>>
>>
>> Em ter, 4 de jun de 2019 às 23:46, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
>> escreveu:
>>
>> I would be leery of the going the route suggested by the vet at this
>> juncture. I seriously seriously doubt if the erythropoietin will help. See
>> my earlier where I explain why.
>>
>>
>>
>> Amani
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> *On Behalf Of
>> *Patricia
>> Oliveira
>> *Sent:* June 4, 2019 8:53 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi, Lorraine
>>
>>
>>
>> Veterinary wants to increase prednisolone to immunosuppressive dose and
>> add erythropoietin. She thinks it is immune-mediated anemia and
>> not mycoplasma.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nori is receiving 1,2 mg prednisolone, twice a day. She weighs only 1
>> kg.
>>
>>
>>
>> We did x-ray today too. No visible tumor but we found a
>> possible cardiopathy ("Increased globular-looking heart silhouette").
>>
>>
>>
>> :(
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Em ter, 4 de jun de 2019 às 20:50, Lorraine Johnston <
>> johnston1...@comcast.net> escreveu:
>>
>> Patricia,
>>
>>
>>
>> I would go with the transfusion and also start erythropoietin.
>> Stanozolol is supposed to stimulate erythropoietin production, but she
>> might need a boost of the ready-made drug just to keep her alive until then.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Lorraine
>>
>>
>>
>> "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the
>> things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
>> Of *Patricia Oliveira
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 4, 2019 6:34 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> We did another blood work today, her hematocrit is 13% now :(
>>
>>
>>
>> She is very sleepy but responsive when i talk to her.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don´t know if i can wait some more days to see if stanozolol is
>> working. Or maybe it would be better get another transfusion right now.
>>
>>
>>
>> Today, vet talk about erythropoietin. Do you know if it can be used with
>> stanozolol?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrícia
>>
>>
>>
>> Em sáb, 1 de jun de 2019 às 14:44, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
>> escreveu:
>>
>> Hi Patricia – I gave all the pills together, morning and evening, except
>> for the metoclopramide which was given ½ or so before meals. The rest I
>> gave with the meals. I didn’t observe a problem with giving them together.
>>
>>
>>
>> You might also try baby food to get Nori to eat. Get the pureed kind
>> (beef or chicken with or without vegetables), so it can be sucked up into a
>> syringe. If my Zander wasn’t eating (and he wasn’t at the start of the
>> medication regime), then I would use a syringe to get the baby food into
>> him. Baby food is easy to digest and has good things in it. I would target
>> – say – five 3 cc syringe-fulls at each feeding. I would boost the number
>> of syringe-fulls if possible. Eventually, Zander started eating the baby
>> food on his own, and then I graduated to moist food, and really, anything
>> he wanted until he put the weight back on.
>>
>>
>>
>> I had a look at the picture you sent and Nori is adorable. I am crossing
>> my fingers for you and for Nori. Keep us updated on her progress.
>>
>>
>>
>> Amani
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> *On Behalf Of
>> *Patricia
>> Oliveira
>> *Sent:* June 1, 2019 12:36 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi, Amani!
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanky you very much for you email!
>>
>>
>>
>> Nori was discharged from the hospital yesterday night. She is eating baby
>> dry food. I tried canned but she didn´t accept so weel.
>>
>>
>>
>> Today i bought other kinds of canned, i'll try them hoping she likes some
>> one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Compound pharmacy must delivery stanozolol today.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are there any precautions regarding medication schedules? Close or far to
>> doxy, for example?
>>
>>
>>
>> This is Nori:
>> https://catsnecropolis.blogspot.com/2019/06/nori-teve-alta.html
>> <https://catsnecropolis.blogspot.com/2019/06/nori-teve-alta.html?fbclid=IwAR0cXMedtfi73B81pJI7QiYGwRTJf9VJp-JN7S_Tstb0ANeg0Hm4ObtFH_A>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrícia
>>
>>
>>
>> Em qui, 30 de mai de 2019 às 20:52, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
>> escreveu:
>>
>> Sorry Patricia – after going on and on in my last email, I realized I
>> hadn’t actually answered your question. I think you can probably use the
>> stanozolol with the Doxycycline, without the prednisone, but prednisone
>> itself has properties which help to boost red cell production. Try it out,
>> keep close tabs on the haematology results and see if you are getting a
>> good response on just Doxycycline and the Stanozolol. If not, add the
>> prednisone. You may find that this combination assists with the FIP as
>> well, as per my previous email.
>>
>>
>>
>> Amani
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> *On Behalf Of
>> *Patricia
>> Oliveira
>> *Sent:* May 30, 2019 12:56 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Rescued kitten felv +
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi from Brazil,
>>
>>
>>
>> I rescued a very weak, dehydrated, extremely thin kitten.
>>
>>
>> She's hospitalized now. Her hematocrit was 8, had blood transfusion which
>> raised hematocrit to 22, now it is 19. Low reticulocyte count.
>>
>> She has difficulty walking, which we can not define if it is just
>> weakness or neurological. Already had a seizure.
>>
>> She also have changes in her kidneys. It has been tested and is felv +
>>
>> She is receiving doxy and the hospital vets would like to include
>> prednisolone.
>>
>> However, as it is not possible yet to rule out PIF, and the medication I
>> could use in the case of PIF does not work if the cat received
>> prednisolone, I am trying to avoid it.
>>
>> The veterinarian agreed to prescribe stanozolol.
>>
>> Can it be used without prednisolone, only with doxy she is already
>> receiving?
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrícia
>>
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