On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Philip Van Hoof <pvanh...@gnome.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 2010-02-28 at 22:59 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > > IMHO talking about Facebook and who should demand them to free info is a > > bit out of place here. Please let's not diverge the thread into that > or > > into a battle about how much we should promote Free Software or non > Free > > alternatives. > > > > In my fantasies, the free software movement might be so influential > > that we could make demands and Facebook would have to heed them. In > > reality, we are not in a position to correct the social problems > > caused by Facebook, and I do not suggest making that our goal. > > Why not? > > You changed the social aspect of software development in the past by > inspiring software engineers to follow a certain pro social model. > > Why not do it again for the current generation, and change the game for > the many social community websites being created in this era? > > If the only problem is that the web and its many innovations aren't part > of your generation, then I don't see what the real problem is; > > The social aspects are the same. > > Why isn't the FSF talking with these companies and organizations about > standardizing data about social networks? Why not talk with the European > Commission about getting rules on personal privacy? Why not talk with > Neelie Kroes about competition laws for near-monopolies like Facebook? > > If the FSF would be really be pro 'freedom' of people, they'd do all > that. In fact, you guys are many people's only hope for improvement > here: There are no other organizations even trying at this moment. > > But for that, we need you and the FSF to become more pragmatic. > > Instead, we have to listen to nonsense about Mono. Nonsense about ethics > that people know more about themselves, for themselves, than the FSF > does. And all the nonsense is turning many FSF fans into zealots. > Um, don't confuse Boycott Novell with RMS or the FSF. The FSF has moved to a more pragmatic stance though talking about pragmatism is like talking about right and left - everyone's center is different. As for RMS's stance on Mono, he has come to espouse his own views on something that in the domain of GNOME where as now Facebook is pretty off topic. Stop dragging the GNOME Foundation list down these off topic roads and stop this pissing contest. Everything that can be said has been said and the thread should be taken off list. Feel free to start a Boycott FSF or Boycott RMS site to continue this bike-shedding. > Of course people like me, and Lefty, start saying 'no more'. > > What did you, or anybody, expect? > > Please, change course with the FSF. I'm asking it seriously now. > Please don't drag the Foundation into this. The foundation supports and is supported by the FSF. The foundation don't always agree with the FSF's stance, but it is not a pulpit for bashing them either. Please talk to RMS and the FSF directly as an individual. > But we do have a duty to make sure, if we develop software > > specifically to work with Facebook, that we are not promoting Facebook > > as a consequence. > > This isn't the case at this moment. So there is no problem here. > > > There are many social problems in life, and nobody would expect us to > > eliminate them all. Most of them are not our priority to work on. > > I can't agree with the "most of them are not our priority". > > So you want it to be pragmatic but then you want it to be superman of freedom. > Ain't it FSF's goal to promote freedom for people in general? > No, freedom in software is their focus. Other entities like the ACLU in America are focused on other aspects of freedom. By neglecting the "freedom problems" as introduced by social networking > websites, you are together with the FSF neglecting a important aspect of > this generation's freedoms: > > Privacy. Choice. Access to the data about themselves. > > You're basically saying: "yeah yeah, but that ain't the FSF's priority". > > Who's priority is it then? > > Because that'll be the same FSF of the 2010ties that the FSF was in the > 90ties. The one we need. There are other memebers of the FSF who are involved with this ( http://www.fsf.org/appeal/2009/mako/). Read down a bit about Network services. Unlike some people, the board of the FSF does its research and formulates a position before flying off the handle. > > > > But even when eliminating a problem is not our priority, we should > > make an effort to avoid making it worse. > > By programming annoying warning message boxes? > > So now we are into developing the very same EULA dialog windows that we > hated in the 90ties. And that everybody simply ignores by always > clicking "yes", "ok" or the "whatever" answer? > > > Great. > > > > Cheers, > > Philip > > -- > Philip Van Hoof, freelance software developer > home: me at pvanhoof dot be > gnome: pvanhoof at gnome dot org > http://pvanhoof.be/blog > http://codeminded.be > > _______________________________________________ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list >
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