Fascinating (to me) how water (the H20 molecule, it's phases, mechanical
modes, radiative coupling, chemistry, aggregate thermodynamics, etc) is
central to such a widely distributed space-time regime of morpho and
teleodynamic phenomena spanning (sub)cellular to organism to
super-organism (herds, schools, forests, prairies, ecosystems) and also
planetary hydro/cryo/biosphere scale weather/climate/???.
There may be evidence of water being significantly relevant to
solar/planetary and even galactic scales but at least *up-to* planetary
scales and down to "molecular scales", indeed "Water is WEIRD" as Hywel
reminds us through Nick. Is this merely another name for our ignorance
or is it acutely anthropocentric because it defines the Goldilocks
region our form of consciousness/life emerged/exists/thrives in? Water
is weirdly relevant to human-scale interests?
Spanning 19 decimal orders of magnitude, from 10^-10m to 10^9 meters ?
And in time? vibrational frequency(ies) of water (wavelength(s) in
micrometers) vs speed of sound (1500 m/sec)? 9 orders(decimal) of
magnitude?
I have been fascinated by the quasi-crystalline structures that have
been both discovered scientifically and invoked woo-woo-ly such as
described in Mae-Wan Ho's Rainbow Water/Worm, AND it's implications
around the physics of /Life Itself/.
https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/6928#t=aboutBook
<https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/6928#t=aboutBook>
And little or none of it might be relevant to the "physics of swirlies"
(RIP Doug Roberts)...
in the bigger/broader question of meteorology as a coherent discipline
vs "clabboring together of ..." some (unpublished)work I did 15 years
ago with Deana Pennington
<https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=PFifM5MAAAAJ&hl=en> on the
topic of the emergence of new scientific disciplines/paradigms would
suggest that this precise level of dis/mis-organization and apparent
"clabboring" and "incompatable" is an earmark of an impending
phase-shift (and in fact what might represent the emergence of a new
field and/or new paradigms)? I highly recommend Deanna's entire corpus
for those interested in the meta-topic of scientific
collaboration/understanding/processes, especially in the bio/eco/climate
sciences. We have not worked closely since she moved from UNM to UTEP
a decade ago... she thrives there best I can tell. I no longer do
anything useful beyond gadfly-about myself. Some /Laurels/ make for
better resting than others...
- Steve
/ May the laurels you rest on be the fruit of living in interesting
times? /(to mangle/mashup/clabber-up some aphorisms)
On 9/7/23 1:10 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
Anyone who needs to call "woke" to make a scientific argument has lost
my ear. An attention seeking proto-populist weatherman.
The electrostatics of individual water molecules, that the hydrogens
have some positive charge and the lone pairs of oxygen have some
negative charge (which is actually a consequence of the molecule
geometry), is all averaged into the thermodynamic behavior. That
gaseous water vapor and liquid water vapor droplets coexist is one way
the gas - liquid equilibrium can roll. Are the droplets drying out or
getting wetter decides which way the heat is moving. The amount of
surface area between the liquid and gas phases facilitates the rate of
heat transfer/drying/wetting.
The fundamental delusion is thinking you can explain the weather
better than simply blaming it on the gods. We know the basic
principles involved, but the variety of ways it can work out continues
to surprise us.
-- rec --
On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 8:54 AM Nicholas Thompson
<thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote:
thanks Pieter for giving a hear. He almost certainly is a crack
pot (he has an "only I can fix it" thing going) but is he wrong
about everything? He makes a big deal about the special
properties of water molecules. He argues that these are created
not by the geometric properties of the molecule per se but by the
electrostatic (?!) gradient created by the structure, a
distinction he admits is subtle, but insists is absolutely
crucial. He says at one point that water vapor itself is rare and
that water remains in minuscule droplet form or (??????) sometimes
forms a plasma. Some how this leads him to the conclusion that
convection is a confection.
I do have sympathy for his general assertion that meteorology is
an incoherent clabboring together of incompatible ways of talking
and thinking.
This is one of those moments when I profoundly miss Hywel White.
One of his aphorisms was "Water is /*WEIRD!"*/
/*
*/
/*Nick
*/
On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 12:57 AM Pieter Steenekamp
<piet...@randcontrols.co.za> wrote:
I listened to the podcast and my opinion is that this
guy, James McGinn, is a crackpot.
On Thu, 7 Sept 2023 at 05:28, Nicholas Thompson
<thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote:
*Hi, all,*
*
*
*I was casting about for a podcast on meteorology and
stumbled on this guy. I can’t tell if he’s a total raging
loon. he says some interesting things about the properties
of water and then claims that convection is a myth! I
could not find any trace of him on the web except this
podcast. The one thing he says that caught my attention is
that meteorologists imply that air masses have structural
properties that would allow, say, in light air mass to
hold a loft, a heavier one. Having red hundreds of
forecast discussions, I sort of know what he’s talking about.*
*
*
*
*
*?????????!!!!!!!!*
*Nick.*
*Solving Tornadoes: Woke Meteorology*
James McGinn
Exposing the incompetence of the current meteorological
paradigm on storm theory and introducing a new,
scientifically competent theory of storms and atmospheric
flow.
Listen on Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/solving-tornadoes-woke-meteorology/id1489185715
Sent from my Dumb Phone
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