Frank Zappa! Now that was a long time ago. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, 10:35 AM glen <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: > I agree almost completely. Where I may disagree goes back to a > conversation we (I've forgotten who was "there", though) had on vFriAM > awhile back. There is something to uniqueness. An expression from the Very > Weird is different from expressions from the less weird. I tend to think of > it in terms of non-convex space and strictures in the manifold. If you've > got a pathologically malformed space and "we" are all meandering around in > that space, then some proportion of us will end up in little niches with > few (or zero) neighbors. The puffs of "content" expressed by those weirdos > will be more unique than the puffs from those with many neighbors. > > Of course, if you have zero neighbors, then your puffs may not be > "remembered" at all by anyone. (I prefer "recognized" to "remembered". But > to each her own.) So, there's some λ parameter for weirdness. Personally, > although I appreciate, say, Frank Zappa's expressions, I don't enjoy many > of them. Similarly, I don't appreciate or enjoy the expressions of Taylor > Swift. But without such large pockets of convex space, where would our > little white holes of weirdness be? We'd have no safe harbor at all. > > On 1/9/24 08:47, Prof David West wrote: > > Ancient Greek notions of "creativity" lacked any sense of egocentric > novelty. To 'create' was to 'remember'. This was grounded in the more > general philosophy that denied the possibility of "something-from-nothing." > > > > In my Design Thinking book, there is a large section about this and > about who "creation" is akin to midwifery, assisting something to express > itself. > > > > Just as a midwife lacks "authorship" of a baby, so too do all > "intellectuals" lack authorship of novel, innovative, or creative work— > despite the boilerplate prefacing every Ph.D. thesis. > > > > davew > > > > On Tue, Jan 9, 2024, at 10:28 AM, glen wrote: > >> > https://www.science.org/content/article/billionaire-launches-plagiarism-detection-effort-against-mit-president-and-all-its > >> > >> > https://thehill.com/policy/technology/4392624-new-york-times-chatgpt-lawsuit-poses-new-legal-threats-to-artificial-intelligence/ > >> > >> I just can't help but analogize between Intelligent Design and these > >> arguments of ownership/novelty of [ahem] "content". It all feels like > >> the argument from design to me. For a paywalled for-profit like the NYT > >> to go after a for-profit like OpenAI and a rapacious > >> < > https://www.thenation.com/article/society/william-ackman-harvard-donor/> > >> billionaire to go after prestige-mongering elite institutions seems > >> like a clear instance of elite overproduction > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_overproduction>. And to have it > >> all leveraged on the fantasy fulcrum of novelty and ownership is making > >> my head spin. > >> > >> But deep down, there's something to be said about intuitionism. At our > >> last salon, someone asked how much ontological status we might give to > >> stories about the Astral Plane. My answer derives entirely from what > >> little I know about intersubjectivity and cross-species mind reading. > >> If there is a commonality to nootropic or psychonaut experience, it > >> derives from our common *structure*, including whatever deeply > >> historical things like genetic memory that may (not) exist. > >> > >> It's fine to give lip service to intellectual humility. But such > >> rhetoric can't persuade ... uh ... "people" like Ackman. Surely ... > >> surely people like that are smart enough to grok things like gen-phen > >> maps, robustness and polyphenism, etc. Right? And if they do get it, > >> then we grass tufts can go on about our work, trying to be open, accept > >> and apply credit and blame to the best of our abilities and ignore > >> these fighting elephants. Right? > >> > >> -- > >> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ > > > -- > ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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