If we reframe _angry & want more power_ from a peculiar ascription to a
particular populist ethic, it makes more sense. Victimhood is a common part of
populist ethics. And even if/when they get power, e.g. in Trump's case, they can
maintain that ethic by relying on conspiracy theories about things like the deep
state. Or in Putin's case, as Jochen points out, use such an ethic (cynically in
his case) to manipulate a population by Othering.
While collections of facts/inferences might contradict each other, the bond is consistent.
"The people" cohere as Us against the Them. It seems to me that, for example, Trump and
Putin are starkly different populist leaders. Trump leads by some kind of intuition (or trial and
error), whereas Putin leads by conscious executive function. It's unclear to me which is more
stable in a society deeply awash in "content". If our experience with things like monte
carlo simulation, evolution, and generative AI tell us anything, I think it is that the Putin's are
on their way out and the Trump's are on the way in. It seems like bullshit generation, combined
with aggressive and flexible selection strategies, will win out in less stable environments ... or
in environments where it's not easy to estimate their moments or fixed points.
On 2/27/24 13:09, Marcus Daniels wrote:
I don't see a problem with mixing the ethic of a tribe with an ethic of an
individual. If the party fails worse things happen then if an individual ethic
is violated. There is the same sort of ethic of the tribe trumping (heh)
individual ethic of evangelicals. A reasonable person is simply aware of
where, when, how, and why one steps away from the party line. The problem
with populists is that there is no ethic. Complaints are reinforced and
corralled only for sake of creating political force. If it starts out being
for one thing and turns into something else that is contradictory, that's fine.
We see that daily with Trump, but my local left-leaning politicians do it
too. The peculiar thing is that the MAGA folks mostly seem to like that they
are a tribe, even if the tribe isn't about anything. They are the angry white
rural voter, and they want more power.
-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2024 11:13 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The lies of Trump and ecDNA
Yeah, good point. MAGA was actually coined (?) by Ronald Reagan's campaign, I think. But the
sentiments behind it (nostalgia, exceptionalism, jingoism, etc.) are age old. And they seem more
nest/hive/collective oriented than individualist mandates like the Commandments. It would be less
like "What would Jesus do?" and more like "What would the Catholic Church do?"
In some ways, right populism is a different phenomenon from the same generator
as left populism. As irritating as it is to have to take Wokeism seriously as a
concept, it rings true for me. Does one support Palestinians because it's right
to support *everyone*? Or does one support them because the Other/They supports
the Israeli state? Similarly, does support Israeli victims of Oct 7 because all
asymmetric warfare is evil? Or does one support the Israeli state because it's
ensconced as sovereign by Us/Ours? How does one balance the ethic of one's
tribe against the ethic of oneself?
On 2/27/24 10:56, Jochen Fromm wrote:
Hmmm I am not sure. I'm still trying to understand cultural evolution better
and how exactly fascism and authoritarianism fit into this picture.
One thing I just noticed is that Trump's slogans are actually very similar to commandments - which serve as cultural
genes in religious contexts. For instance "Make America Great Again" is a political slogan and the name of
Trump's MAGA movement, but it is also a commandment like "You shall not murder". A call to action and an
abstract instruction how to act. It appeals to all those people who do not feel great - Hillary Clinton's deplorable
people. "Build the wall" and "Lock her up" are similar political slogans which are also
commandments to expel immigrants and to imprison opponents. These are the genes of Trump's primitive strongman ideology.
-J.
-------- Original message --------
From: glen <geprope...@gmail.com>
Date: 2/27/24 7:26 PM (GMT+01:00)
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The lies of Trump and ecDNA
IDK. It seems like ecDNA, in general, can be either good or bad. And
mitochondrial DNA feels like a boon, overall. Maybe a better analogy would be ecDNA
<-> media and MAGA to the oncogenes being promoted. I think a useful foil for
stressing the analogy is the difference between a filter bubble and an echo chamber.
If we define a filter bubble as the sieve through which the ambience extrudes and an
echo chamber as an agent-oriented selection bias, we can classify MAGA cult members
as victims (incompetent consumers of media) and perpetrators. The perpetrators might
be like the Federalist Society, where they seek echoes of their beliefs and put them
in power. Or they might be like Joe Rogan, where they promote/amplify toxic materials
they find in the wild. The latter seem like trans-acting ecDNA ... and Rachel Maddow
might be similar to Joe Rogan in that sense, only considered toxic based on what they
promote, not promotion in itself. The former seem like oncogenes. The rest, like some
random soccer mom at the Jan 6 riot, don't seem like either of those to me.
On 2/27/24 08:51, Jochen Fromm wrote:
> The lies of Trump and his MAGA cult are a bit like extrachromosomal DNA that is
apparently behind many malignant cancers. Both are normally part of selfish entities -
single cell organisms or narcissistic con men - and disrupt or distort the normal fabric of
the world they live in. Interestingly ecDNA takes the form of tiny circles just like
plasmids in bacteria. And it spreads faster than DNA in chromosomes, just as lies spread
faster than the truth. As Jonathan Swift said "Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping
after it"
>
https://www.the-scientist.com/cancer-may-be-driven-by-dna-outside-of-c
hromosomes-68590
--
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