On Thursday 10 May 2012 19:51:14 Mark Knecht wrote: > On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Norman Invasion > > <invasivenor...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 10 May 2012 14:01, Mark Knecht <markkne...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Norman Invasion > >> > >> <invasivenor...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> On 9 May 2012 04:47, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> As some know, I'm planning to buy me a LARGE hard drive to put all my > >>>> videos on, eventually. The prices are coming down now. I keep seeing > >>>> these "green" drives that are made by just about every company > >>>> nowadays. When comparing them to a non "green" drive, do they hold up > >>>> as good? Are they as dependable as a plain drive? I guess they are > >>>> more efficient and I get that but do they break quicker, more often > >>>> or no difference? > >>>> > >>>> I have noticed that they tend to spin slower and are cheaper. That > >>>> much I have figured out. Other than that, I can't see any other > >>>> difference. Data speeds seem to be about the same. > >>> > >>> They have an ugly tendency to nod off at 6 second intervals. > >>> This runs up "193 Load_Cycle_Count" unacceptably: as many > >>> as a few hundred thousand in a year & a million cycles is > >>> getting close to the lifetime limit on most hard drives. I end > >>> up running some iteration of > >>> # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda > >>> every boot. > >> > >> Very true about the 193 count. Here's a drive in a system that was > >> built in Jan., 2010 so it's a bit over 2 years old at this point. It's > >> on 24/7 and not rebooted except for more major updates, etc. My tests > >> say the drive spins down and starts back up every 2 minutes and has > >> been doing so for about 28 months. IIRC the 193 spec on this drive was > >> something like 300000 max with the drive currently clocking in at > >> 700488. I don't see any evidence that it's going to fail but I am > >> trying to make sure it's backed up often. Being that it's gone >2x at > >> this point I will swap the drive out in the early summer no matter > >> what. This week I'll be visiting where the machine is so I'm going to > >> put a backup drive in the box to get ready. > > > > Yes, I just learned about this problem in 2009 or so, & > > checked on my FreeBSD laptop, which turned out to be > > at >400000. It only made it another month or so before > > having unrecoverable errors. > > > > Now, I can't conclusively demonstrate that the 193 > > Load_Cycle_Count was somehow causitive, but I > > gots my suspicions. Many of 'em highly suspectable. > > It's part of the 'Wear Out Failure' part of the Bathtub Curve posted > in the last few days. That said, some Toyotas go 100K miles, and > others go 500K miles. Same car, same spec, same production line, > different owners, different roads, different climates, etc. > > It's not possible to absolutely know when any drive will fail. I > suspect that the 300K spec is just that, a spec. They'd replace the > drive if it failed at 299,999 and wouldn't replace it at 300,001. That > said, they don't want to spec thing too tightly, and I doubt many > people make a purchasing decision on a spec like this, so for the vast > majority of drives most likely they'd do far more than 300K. > > At 2 minutes per count on that specific WD Green Drive, if a home > machine is turned on for instance 5 hours a day (6PM to 11PM) then > 300K count equates to around 6 years. To me that seems pretty generous > for a low cost home machine. However for a 24/7 production server it's > a pretty fast replacement schedule. > > Here's data for my 500GB WD RAID Edition drives in my compute server > here. It's powered down almost every night but doesn't suffer from the > same firmware issues. The machine was built in April, 2010, so it's a > bit of 2 years old. Note that it's been powered on less than 1/2 the > number of hours but only has a 193 count of 907 vs > 700000! > > Cheers, > Mark > > > c2stable ~ # smartctl -a /dev/sda > smartctl 5.42 2011-10-20 r3458 [x86_64-linux-3.2.12-gentoo] (local build) > Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net > > === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === > Model Family: Western Digital RE3 Serial ATA > Device Model: WDC WD5002ABYS-02B1B0 > Serial Number: WD-WCASYA846988 > LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 2042c3477 > Firmware Version: 02.03B03 > User Capacity: 500,107,862,016 bytes [500 GB] > Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical > Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] > ATA Version is: 8 > ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated > Local Time is: Thu May 10 11:45:45 2012 PDT > SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. > SMART support is: Enabled > > === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === > SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED > > General SMART Values: > Offline data collection status: (0x84) Offline data collection activity > was suspended by an > interrupting command from host. > Auto Offline Data Collection: > Enabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test > routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run. > Total time to complete Offline > data collection: ( 9480) seconds. > Offline data collection > capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate. > Auto Offline data collection > on/off support. > Suspend Offline collection upon new > command. > Offline surface scan supported. > Self-test supported. > Conveyance Self-test > supported. > Selective Self-test supported. > SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before > entering > power-saving mode. > Supports SMART auto save > timer. > Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. > General Purpose Logging > supported. > Short self-test routine > recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. > Extended self-test routine > recommended polling time: ( 112) minutes. > Conveyance self-test routine > recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes. > SCT capabilities: (0x303f) SCT Status supported. > SCT Error Recovery Control > supported. > SCT Feature Control supported. > SCT Data Table supported. > > SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16 > Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: > ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE > UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE > 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x002f 200 200 051 Pre-fail > Always - 0 > 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 239 235 021 Pre-fail > Always - 1050 > 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age > Always - 935 > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 200 200 140 Pre-fail > Always - 0 > 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x002e 200 200 000 Old_age > Always - 0 > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 091 091 000 Old_age > Always - 7281 > 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age > Always - 0 > 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age > Always - 0 > 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age > Always - 933 > 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age > Always - 27 > 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age > Always - 907 > 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 106 086 000 Old_age > Always - 41 > 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age > Always - 0 > 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age > Always - 0 > 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 200 200 000 Old_age > Offline - 0 > 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age > Always - 0 > 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0008 200 200 000 Old_age > Offline - 0
Is this 193 Load_Cycle_Count an issue only on the green drives? I have a very old Compaq laptop here that shows: # smartctl -A /dev/sda | egrep "Power_On|Load_Cycle" 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0012 055 055 000 Old_age Always - 19830 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 001 001 000 Old_age Always - 1739734 Admittedly, there are some 60 errors on it (having been used extensively on bouncy trains, buses, aeroplanes, etc) but it is still refusing to die ... O_O It is a Hitachi 20G === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Hitachi Travelstar 80GN Device Model: IC25N020ATMR04-0 Serial Number: MRX107K1DS623H Firmware Version: MO1OAD5A User Capacity: 20,003,880,960 bytes [20.0 GB] Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: 6 ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-6 T13 1410D revision 3a Local Time is: Sat May 12 10:30:13 2012 BST SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === -- Regards, Mick
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