> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:49 PM:
I guess I didn't explain myself correctly on the suggestion concerning a
konkani creole. I was not going back to the tiring discussion on whether
konkani is a creole of marathi or not (it's like asking if portuguese,
galician or catalan are creloes of castillan). My issue is different.
People around Goa, both hindus and catholics, tell me that the konkani
used by the catholics is different due to a very strong influence of
portuguese. What I was suggesting is that catholic konkani may be a
creolised version of the language (as, I am told, is apparent in the the
novel that Prof. Teotonio mentions, "Jacob and Dulce" by GIP, but I'm in
no position to have a personal opinion on the issue since I know no
konkani). That's all.
>
> It is not at all apparent, dear Dr. Mascarenhas: "Jacob e Dulce" is by no
> means written in creole Konkani but is perhaps the best book ever written
> in the Portuguese creole of Goa. I am reproducing below my post to GRN of
> the 20th of this month which, for reasons unknown to me (GRN
> Co-ordinators, please investigate), was not circulated.
>
> Jorge
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Text of my post of July 20, 2004 follows:
>
Regarding Dr. Sergio Mascarenhas's message below, I just wish to make two
points: (1) Yes, there in fact was persecution of the Konkani language by
both the civil and the religious Portuguese authorities. From the civil
authorities, the quest for suppression of "amchi bhas" - which was
regarded as a possible threat to the Portuguese domination of Goa - even
went to the point of authorising the opening of Marathi schools and
subsidising them, but not Konkani ones. As far as the Catholic religious
establishment is concerned, I can't forget that, when I was attending the
Rachol Seminary in the 1940s, though Devnagri Konkani and Marathi were
taught as a discipline of the 3rd year of the "Curso Preparatorio"
(Humanities), during our normal life we were prohibited to speak Konkani -
by orders, so we were told, given by the Patriarch's office in Panjim. (2)
Regarding Dr. Sergio's «Goa didn't produce a creole. Those that know
portuguese know portuguese, not a creole variant», I am afraid I must
again contradict him, as Goa did produce a creole. A book edited by the
"Comissao Nacional para as Comemorações dos Descobrimentos Portugueses"
(Lisbon, 1998), with the title "Estudos sobre os Crioulos
Indo-Portugueses", contains the following essays of Sebastião Rodolfo
Dalgado: "Dialecto indo-portugues de Goa", "Dialecto indo-portugues de
Damão", "Dialecto indo-portugues do Norte" and "Dialecto indo-portugues do
Negapatão". Besides, there is a book titled "Dialecto indo-portugues de
Ceylão", authored by S.R. Dalgado, printed at the "Imprensa Nacional"
(Lisbon) in 1900 and again - with an introduction by Ian Smith - by the
said C.N.C. Descobrimentos Portugueses in 1998.
>
As for Prof. Dr. Teotonio de Souza's request for someone to «clarify if
indo-portuguese dialects can be called Portuguese creoles of India», the
reply is in the affirmative. Sebastiao Rodolfo Dalgado himself, in the
Preamble to "Dialecto Indo-Portugues de Ceylao", refers to "os crioulos
portugueses indianos em geral, e do Ceylao em particular"; and in the
short introductory note to his "Dialecto indo-portugues de Goa" he again
refers to "dialectos ou crioulos indo-portugueses".
>
In respect of the Indo-Portuguese creole of Goa, this existed side by side
with the pure Portuguese spoken in the territory. The best written
specimen of the Indo-Portuguese creole of Goa is the book "Jacob e Dulce.
Scenas da vida indiana" by Francisco Joao da Costa who used the pseudonym
"Gip" (Tipografia da Casa Luso-Francesa, Nova Goa, 1907 - 2a. edicao).
Dalgado quotes extensively from this book, where one can find creole
sentences like "Em nos caz nao ha bacia ... ha tambio" ("Em nos caz", a
literal translation from the Konkani "amchea gharant"), "A mim mano
Francisco matou", instead of "O mano Francisco bateu-me" (a literal
translation from Konkani: "Mhaka man' Franciscan marlem"), and "Mano Jacob
esta na quintal, sobre durig" (Konkani "durig" instead of Portuguese
"muro", and "na quintal" instead of "no quintal", perhaps a reminiscence
of the Konkani term "bag" which is feminine).
>
Finally, referring to Dr. Teotonio's today's post titled «Chinese, Malay,
Arab, Persian creoles?», wherein he cites the essay «"Dialecto
indo-portugues de Goa", in *Revista Lusitana*, VI, 1900, pp. 63-84» as
having been written by Cunha Rivara, may I please be allowed to correct
him by saying that the writer of that essay was Mgr. Sebastiao Rodolfo
Dalgado. It is reproduced in pages 37 to 65 of the book "Estudos sobre os
Crioulos Indo-Portugueses" which I mentioned in #2 of my reply to Dr.
Sergio Mascarenhas, above.
> Jorge de Abreu Noronha
-----------------------------------------
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