Stevan, I do not really understand your distinction. a) A book is an article but a bit longer and vice versa. (By the way, OA could dissolve that difference.) b) At least in some countries, research monographs and collected volumes were subsidised for decades by public funders, but just for printing cost while peer review and copy editing were usually not offered by the publishers. Therefore, I see good reasons for a funder to pay more to a publisher but to require also peer review, copy editing and gold OA.
Best, Falk __________________________________________________ Falk Reckling, PhD Social Science and Humanities / Strategic Analysis / Open Access Head of Units Austrian Science Fund (FWF) Sensengasse 1 A-1090 Vienna email: falk.reckl...@fwf.ac.at Tel.: +43-1-5056740-8301 Mobil: + 43-699-19010147 Web: http://www.fwf.ac.at/de/contact/personen/reckling_falk.html ________________________________________ Von: goal-boun...@eprints.org [goal-boun...@eprints.org]" im Auftrag von "Stevan Harnad [har...@ecs.soton.ac.uk] Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Jänner 2013 17:07 An: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci) Cc: SPARC Open Access Forum Betreff: [GOAL] Re: Statement: Australian Open Access Support Group applauds new ARC open access policy Let's please distinguish between (1) mandating (requiring) to do X and (2) offering a subsidy to do X. Gratis Green OA self-archiving of journal articles can be and is being mandated, unproblematically (with the ID/OA Immediate-Deposit/Optional OA compromise). Finding the money to pay for Gold OA and/or CC-BY and/or for books is another matter, with problems that do not beset mandating ID/OA for articles. So let's keep thinking about subsidizing Gold OA and/or CC-BY and/or books. But meanwhile, let's mandate ID/OA for articles, unproblematically. And let's not handicap those mandates with needless constraints that apply only to Gold, CC-BY, or books. Stevan Harnad On 2013-01-18, at 10:13 AM, "Reckling, Falk, Dr." <falk.reckl...@fwf.ac.at> wrote: > I'd like to mention that some funding agencies and initiatives which have > already launched some interesting initiatives which fund OA books or are > prepared to do it in the future: > > OAPEN: http://www.oapen.org/home > > Austrian Science Fund (FWF): > http://www.fwf.ac.at/en/projects/stand_alone_publications.html > > German Research Fundation (DFG): > http://www.dfg.de/foerderung/info_wissenschaft/info_wissenschaft_12_53/index.html > > A Consortium Approach to OA Monographs in Sweden: > http://www.ep.liu.se/aboutliep/pdf/progress_report_oa_monopraphs.pdf > > Best, > > Falk > > __________________________________________________ > Falk Reckling, PhD > Social Science and Humanities / Strategic Analysis / Open Access > Head of Units > Austrian Science Fund (FWF) > Sensengasse 1 > A-1090 Vienna > email: falk.reckl...@fwf.ac.at<mailto:falk.reckl...@fwf.ac.at> > Tel.: +43-1-5056740-8301 > Mobil: + 43-699-19010147 > Web: http://www.fwf.ac.at/de/contact/personen/reckling_falk.html > ________________________________ > Von: goal-boun...@eprints.org [goal-boun...@eprints.org]" im Auftrag von > "Jean-Claude Guédon [jean.claude.gue...@umontreal.ca] > Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Jänner 2013 15:19 > An: goal@eprints.org > Cc: SPARC Open Access Forum > Betreff: [GOAL] Re: Statement: Australian Open Access Support Group applauds > new ARC open access policy > > The issue of books has always been a difficult terrain within the OA > community. A narrow interpretation of Open Access tends to limit its reach to > journal articles, and this choice has the obvious advantage of leaving the > issue of royalties aside. However, it should be remembered that scholars who > write scholarly monographs or contribute to scholarly anthologies do not > generally do it for money, but for the same kind of goals that scholars do > when they publish in articles. Consequently, drawing a red line around the > royalty issue is really a moot point in the great majority of case and can be > justified only on the ground of wanting to simplify matters to the extreme. > At the same time, it must be remembered that books and even anthologies carry > more weight in most SSH (social science and humanities) areas. leaving them > aside would be like telling scientists that, for whatever reason, publishing > in the most prestigious journals cannot be taken into account. And citation > trackers, until very recently, have also systematically neglected books > despite their obvious importance. > > Now, let us look at the issues of books with regard to the ARC policy. > > Books do not have “less developed mechanisms for open access copyright > clearance than journal articles”. They have better developed mechanisms for > copyright transfer, and greater justification for closed access. There is no > simple parallel between scholarly book publishing and scholarly journal > publishing. The industries are very different, and convergence is slow in > coming though we may be starting on that path. > > I believe this statement to be very poorly written. In this I agree with > Arthur. But I am not sure that they have greater justification for closed > access. And I do not understand why scholarly book publishing and scholarly > journal publishing are so vastly different. Book publishing in general, yes; > but scholarly book publishing works about the same way as journal publishing > (with the minor difference of insignificant royalties). If there are so many > justifications for closed access to books, why are some academic presses > practising open access? Are they crazy? Unrealistic? Whatever? > > If the ARC policy extends to books, and according to the AOASG statement also > to ibooks and ebooks, and to a lesser extent but still importantly book > contributions (chapters), then it is easy to predict: > > 1. Very few books will be published as the outcomes of a research > project. Book publishers incur real costs (editorial, printing, stock and > distribution), especially research or review books, and require closed access > to recover costs over much longer timeframes than articles. They will simply > refuse to publish books that are to be made open access, unless heavily > subsidized. > > 2. Very few ibooks will be published as outcomes of a research project. > Although the iTunes policy is that free ibooks (ie open access) are accepted, > most people wanting to publish a research output as an ibook (.iba format for > iPad) will want to recover some of their development cost. This will be less > significant in the less interactive ..pub format. > > > 1. It is true that book publishers incur real costs, but so do journal > publishers, especially when they maintain a paper version, as is still the > case in a majority of SSH journals. Then, even printing, stock and > distribution issues are shared by both worlds. > > The life cycle of scholarly books (and articles within anthologies) may or > may not be longer than those of journal articles: it all depends on the > discipline, and the best proof of this is JSTOR which is a success. But > Arthur is not really speaking about life cyles of articles; he is speaking > about cost recovery of journals and articles. Actually, given the present > price of many scholarly books - anyone looking at catalogues from Sage or > similar publishers can confirm this point - few individuals buy them, which > means that the scholarly book market depends on library demand as heavily as > scholarly journals. > > Finally, in many countries (e.g. Canada, France, Italy, etc.), scholarly > books are heavily subsidized to the point that, for these books, publishers > really face a risk-free world. And not so long ago, most US university > presses were in a position to work at a loss, which means that their books > were subsidized locally. In fact, ever since Johns Hopkins U. Presss was > founded, university presses original mandate was to publish books that could > not succeed commercially but were important for the growth of knowledge. > > 2. Arthur makes a prediction that does not appear substantiated. If > university presses that already practise OA decide to produce eBooks (why > limit oneself to iBooks?), they will simply decrease many of their > production, storage and distribution costs, and this will help them > financially in their effort to promote book OA. > > One has to doubt whether the ARC intends such undesirable consequences, and > if it has thought this through. I just mention newspaper articles, video > recordings, music scores, film and play scripts, photographs, architectural > designs, computer programs, patents, and silicon chip designs, without going > into detail. > > I will not speculate on whether ARC has thought the issue through or not, but > it is true that scholarly publishing will eventually move across the whole > gamut of document types one can imagine, plus the data behind it. However, a > scholarly video will maintain with a commercial video the same kind of > relationship that a scholarly book maintains with a novel or a cookbook: > although superfically alike, they enter entirely different economic circuits > and should, therefore, be treated accordingly. Conflating all kinds of > codices into one lump does not help thinking through the digital mutation we > are experiencing. In fact, if we pushed the argument further, we could say > that because scientists use writing in their work, it should be treated like > any other form of writing, from a laundry bill to a D. Steele novel. Moving > down that road will quickly lead us into absurdities. > > In conclusion, I am not saying that the ARC policy is perfect; but I am > saying that policy formulations that do include scholarly books and > anthologies make a lot of sense if one is interested in thinking about Open > Access as an important tool for the great conversation of knowledge, be it in > the STM disciplines, or in SSH. And, once and for all, let us forget about > this artificial red line dealing with the royalty issue. In fact, all > subsidized, scholarly, books should exclude the possibility of royalties. > > Incidentally, mandates for depositing research publications into > institutional/central/thematic repositories should clearly extend to SSH > publications in whatever form, codex, journals, etc.. > > Best, > > Jean-Claude Guédon > > Le vendredi 18 janvier 2013 à 00:41 -0500, Stevan Harnad a écrit : > Many thanks to Arthur Sale for posting this. When I saw these (obvious) > howlers in the ARC Policy I assumed the policy-makers (or the policy-writers) > had fallen asleep at the wheel (and I gave up). > > > Let's hope that Arthur's firm and confident corrective will be noticed and > heeded. > > > The ARC gaffe is nothing compared to the UK's Finch/RCUK gaffe, which was > done -- and has since been defended -- with eyes wide shut... > > > Stevan Harnad > > On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Arthur Sale > <a...@ozemail.com.au<mailto:a...@ozemail.com.au>> wrote: > Danny > > > > I believe this AOASG statement contains an error. It states that the ARC > policy applies to all research outputs of an ARC project, including books. > While this can be inferred from the text, it is an extraordinary claim which > will be ineffective and cannot have been intended by the ARC. > > > > Books do not have “less developed mechanisms for open access copyright > clearance than journal articles”. They have better developed mechanisms for > copyright transfer, and greater justification for closed access. There is no > simple parallel between scholarly book publishing and scholarly journal > publishing. The industries are very different, and convergence is slow in > coming though we may be starting on that path. > > > > If the ARC policy extends to books, and according to the AOASG statement also > to ibooks and ebooks, and to a lesser extent but still importantly book > contributions (chapters), then it is easy to predict: > > 1. Very few books will be published as the outcomes of a research > project. Book publishers incur real costs (editorial, printing, stock and > distribution), especially research or review books, and require closed access > to recover costs over much longer timeframes than articles. They will simply > refuse to publish books that are to be made open access, unless heavily > subsidized. > > 2. Very few ibooks will be published as outcomes of a research project. > Although the iTunes policy is that free ibooks (ie open access) are accepted, > most people wanting to publish a research output as an ibook (.iba format for > iPad) will want to recover some of their development cost. This will be less > significant in the less interactive .pub format. > > One has to doubt whether the ARC intends such undesirable consequences, and > if it has thought this through. I just mention newspaper articles, video > recordings, music scores, film and play scripts, photographs, architectural > designs, computer programs, patents, and silicon chip designs, without going > into detail. > > > > The statement that “The AOASG particularly commends the ARC for requiring > publications to be made available through institutional repositories” is also > incorrect, or rather overstated. The ARC policy makes it clear that deposit > in a repository is not necessary, if the research output is already available > elsewhere on the Internet in an open access form (for example in a subject > repository, on a website, in iTunes, in an open access journal, or as an OA > article in a hybrid journal). The policy does not mandate open access > journals and similar routes (good), but it does not inhibit their natural > growth either (also good). It sets institutional repositories as the OA > mechanism of ultimate resort, and as a compulsory location for a metadata > record and a pointer to an OA full-text. > > > > One could improve on the ARC policy, of course, in order to improve global > discoverability and shorten the excessive embargo delay. The guidelines that > will back up the policy will be especially valuable, as these will be more > influential on grant recipients than reading between the lines. Just imagine > the effect if the policy had stated: > > “the ARC requires that any article publications arising from an ARC supported > research project must be open access and globally discoverable within a six > (6) month period from the date of publication. Discoverability of the > full-text of the publication through Google Scholar is regarded as proof of > meeting this requirement.” > > Arthur Sale > > University of Tasmania > > > > From: goal-boun...@eprints.org<mailto:goal-boun...@eprints.org> > [mailto:goal-boun...@eprints.org<mailto:goal-boun...@eprints.org>] On Behalf > Of Danny Kingsley > Sent: Monday, 14 January 2013 7:38 AM > To: goal@eprints.org<mailto:goal@eprints.org>; > cai...@googlegroups.com<mailto:cai...@googlegroups.com>; > ao...@mailman.anu.edu.au<mailto:ao...@mailman.anu.edu.au> > Subject: [GOAL] Statement: Australian Open Access Support Group applauds new > ARC open access policy > > > > > > STATEMENT > Australian Open Access Support Group applauds new ARC open access policy > > > The Australian Open Access Support Group (AOASG) applauds the Australian > Research Council (ARC) in their implementation of a new open access policy. > > > > The ARC posted their open access policy on their website on Monday 7 January. > The ARC Open Access Policy http://www.arc.gov.au/applicants/open_access.htm > states: > > the ARC requires that any publications arising from an ARC supported research > project must be deposited into an open access institutional repository within > a twelve (12) month period from the date of publication. > > > > The AOASG particularly commends the ARC for requiring publications to be made > available through institutional repositories. This method of making work open > access uses the substantial institutional repository network in place across > Australian institutions. It also avoids the potentially costly result of a > mandate that requires publication in open access journals through the payment > of article processing charges. > > > > This policy differs from the “NHMRC revised policy on the dissemination of > research findings” > http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/grants/policy/dissemination-research-findings > (introduced on 1 July 2012) in two important ways. > > > > 1. Unlike the NHMRC policy which only relates to journal articles > resulting from funded research, the ARC policy will apply to all publication > outputs resulting from funded research. This will include books and book > chapters which currently have less developed mechanisms for open access > copyright clearance than journal articles. > > > > 2. The NHMRC policy took effect from 1 July 2012, and all journal > articles from any funded research (regardless of the grant under which it was > funded) published after that date are required to be submitted within 12 > months of publication to an institutional repository. The ARC policy is not > retrospective, and relates specifically to publications resulting from the > Funding Rules and Agreements released after 1 January 2013. This means there > will be a period of some time between the funding allocation and publication > of the work. This longer implementation period presents an opportunity to > address some of the issues facing researchers who publish in outlets other > than journal articles. > > > > The AOASG is a consortium of six Australian universities which supports > Australian institutions and researchers by providing information about, and > support for, the development and implementation of open access policies. The > particular issues facing the humanities and social sciences in the open > access debate will be an early focus for the Group. > > > > Still in early implementation phase, the AOASG will have a web presence > available shortly. > > > > > > Dated: 14 January 2013 > > > > > Further information: > Dr Danny Kingsley, Executive Officer AOASG > > e: danny.kings...@anu.edu.au<mailto:danny.kings...@anu.edu.au> p: 02 6125 6839 > > Australian National University, Charles Sturt University, Macquarie > University, Newcastle University, Queensland University of Technology and > Victoria University > > > > _______________________________________________ > GOAL mailing list > GOAL@eprints.org<mailto:GOAL@eprints.org> > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal > > > > > _______________________________________________ > GOAL mailing list > GOAL@eprints.org<mailto:GOAL@eprints.org> > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal > > > -- > > [X] > > Jean-Claude Guédon > Professeur titulaire > Littérature comparée > Université de Montréal > > > > _______________________________________________ > GOAL mailing list > GOAL@eprints.org > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal _______________________________________________ GOAL mailing list GOAL@eprints.org http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/Goal _______________________________________________ GOAL mailing list GOAL@eprints.org http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
